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China and the U.S.

By pctech ·
I would like to start this conversation with Maxwell as my inspiration for doing so. .... Here are the links you requested Max. There is a lot of reading to do here, so take your time.


Corporations, world wide, are looking to China and other third world nations for lower costs of manufacturing. While I am concerned with this trend towards exploiting the labor forces of these nations, my primary concern is with China. China is a huge country and with a huge population to feed that will work cheap and undermine the wage earners of other countries. While China will have a future economic impact on all nations and all companies, my concern is with US companies that abandon the US workforce and seek the Chinese workforce to lower their costs. These U. S. companies can have a direct impact as to if the US can remain an economic AND a military superpower. As U. S. manufacturing companies erode the manufacturing capabilities of this nation through the migration of manufacturing plants from here to China, they also strengthen China's ability to convert these civilian manufacturing plants into wartime manufacturing plants. Remember Pearl Harbor and Japan's attack on us there? With our Pacific fleet nearly completely devastated, how was this nation able to rebound and eventually become triumphant over Japan's attack on us? The U. S. was able to quickly convert its civilian manufacturing plants into military manufacturing plants. We had the facilities, trained workers in these facilities, and trained managers to run them. This is how we defeated Japan after it had made a devastating **** against our abilities to wage war. We overcame this attack only because we had the manufacturing plants, trained workers, and able managers to out build any other nation. We are rapidly losing these abilities through US companies closing manufacturing plants here and building new, modern facilities elsewhere.

How does this impact us with China? Taiwan, is how. China has long vowed to regain Taiwan. China has stated it will use military force to do so. China has stated it will kill all of Taiwan's inhabitants to do so. The U. S. has pledged to defend Taiwan from China, with our own military as needed. Our ability to do so is becoming less likely to be able to succeed with U. S. corporations building manufacturing plants in China and closing the facilities here. Every manufacturing facility closed here and reopened in China is a double edged sword that cuts us twice. We are cut once with the loss of manufacturing plants here. We are cut again with the ability of China to sequester these new U. S. plants and converting them into wartime manufacturing plants. Will our troops be forced to defend Taiwan against China while fighting naked and using only sticks and stones? The links I have provided shows the possibility of this becoming the reality. You can judge for yourself.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,94355,00.html

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_aerospacedaily_story.jsp?id=news/chi04264.xml

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/01/china.weapons/

http://www.cnn.com/US/9904/21/china.nukes/

http://usembassy.state.gov/islamabad/wwwhpr29.html

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/dod-2003.pdf

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-2950.html

http://www.cia.gov/nic/confreports_chinawmd.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3809067.stm

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/74741.html

http://www.ceip.org/programs/npp/nppchnct.htm

http://www.rense.com/general53/noik.htm

http://www.taiwansecurity.org/Reu/Reuters-101100.htm

http://usinfo.org/wf-archive/2000/000719/epf314.htm

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/China/

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/edcoursesyllabi/prc-weapons.html

http://www.nti.org/db/china/conpos.htm

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/1/165100.shtml

http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/1991/may91/may91fieldhouse.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9CCCA355-871E-4A42-A7C2-2D798E3299A2.htm

http://www.stimson.org/pubs.cfm?ID=82

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/China%20and%20weapons%20of%20mass%20destruction

http://www.taiwansecurity.org/CNN/2002/CNN-032902.htm

http://www.cfr.org/pdf/china.pdf

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1166876/posts

http://www.meadev.nic.in/govt/wallst.htm

http://www.comw.org/cmp/fulltext/cafnuke.html

http://cns.miis.edu/research/china/coxrep/wwhmdat.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project447.html

http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/chnukes.html

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/9/11/192152.shtml

http://www.afa.org/magazine/sept1997/0997china.asp

http://debate.uvm.edu/handbookfile/WMD2002/177.htm

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/6/19/205940.shtml

http://static.highbeam.com/i/insightonthenews/august052002/symposiumchinasmilitarybuildupandtheunitedstatesst/

http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_17b.html

http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13425246

http://taiwansecurity.org/IS/Heritage-991202-Military-Contacts-with-China.htm

http://www.uscc.gov/hearings/2004hearings/written_testimonies/04_06_16hasc_testimony%20_robinson.htm

http://chinastudygroup.org/index.php?type=news&id=6093

http://www.conservativeusa.org/redchina-missile.htmhttp://www.perspicacityonline.com/2001/102/Chinawatch10222.htm

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_022004_Offley,00.html

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Therefore what?

by maxwell edison In reply to China and the U.S.

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Okay, you made your points, but what's your conclusion?

Therefore what?

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Judge for yourself

by pctech In reply to Therefore what?

Max,

The last sentence I made was for you to judge for yourself. The "therefore what" is what you make out of it and how you respond to it. I did as you requested and I supplied the links to support my concerns. How you respond to the information supplied in the links is up to you.

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Therefore - I don't care

by maxwell edison In reply to Judge for yourself

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I saw the links in you other post.

You apparently have an issue with China's growing strength, but you offer no conclusion.

It's you complaining about it, not me.

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Global Economy - And your point is what

by SkipperUSN In reply to China and the U.S.

I understand global economy - the cheapest gets the work. And China is learning that fast. Remember most forms of government will be the world leader for a number of years.. I think the average is 200 ... Look back in History - Britian - france - italy - Greece - they are were at the top of the world - then someone else took over... Right now the USA is losing its grip and will lose to the Chinese :-( this will make Oz happy...

So I guess someday - BC will be the Economy Center of the world ... after a few million years pass..

But everything comes to an end - and Oz will be happy when he/it see the down fall of the USA.

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Die gracefully?

by pctech In reply to Global Economy - And your ...

Skipper,

Have you resigned yourself to the fall of the U.S. as a world leader simply for the ability to buy "cheaper" products? I have shown you some of the costs associated with "cheap" goods. I can give many more examples of why the pursuit of "cheap" has substantial costs associated with it and they are not always apparent to the consumers. These links may help to open some eyes and cause U.S. consumers to rethink their buying strategies. .. Then again, maybe not. I think it is only right to show the U.S. consumers that their buying choices have consequences. Each consumer will have to decide how they will deal with it, if at all.

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Nobody needs to die

by CloudedYoda In reply to Die gracefully?

In this century, I don't think two nuclear-capable nations are that smart to start a war. But who knows eh? Better build more manufacturing plants in US just in case.

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I Don't disagree - but the consumer is the problem

by SkipperUSN In reply to Die gracefully?

I don't disagree with what you say - but I look at the American consumer today - and they ***** about the cost of a shirt - then they ***** about jobs going overseas. Then they ***** about this then ***** about that..

Well - you try to explain to them that if they were to have an American made shirt it would cost X dollars because the price of labor - where as to get it for what they want it has to be made for y Dollars...

They don't care - they want jobs in america at 3rd world wages - well I wonder how long they would stay at their jobs makeing 3rd world labor rate... The American consumer is stupid most of the time ... whats everything - Cheap products - Made in America - and high Salaries... Hum the three just can be done - at the same time..

Just like the steel mills of the 60's and 70's - when foriegn steel started in America - they didn't want to make consessions so that the planets could retool - they didn't want a 6 month layoff while the planet moderenized - what happened you can only bleed so long before the patient dies ...

And thats what the American consumer is doing to America now ... they don't want to spend more money on an american made product so they purchase foriegn - but in the same breath want jobs to stay in America and wages to remain high (I am not telling you anything you don't know) ..

The Consumer in America needs to get a grip before america ends up like the mills...

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competition

by highlander718 In reply to I Don't disagree - but th ...

I tend to agree about the consumer's choice, but that's only a natural thing. It's hard to convince someone (especially that we are talking masses) that buying cheaper goods (made in 3rd world countries) is not such a good thing after all. I think the companies are (would be) much more in the position to control this, but they are just more than willing to satisfy the customer, especially because of the competition. You cannot survive on the market if at least one of your competition is doing work/production in China for ex.
More than that I think this should be a government/legal decision if the balance (prices vs. job los) starts to get worst.

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Good example

by Oz_Media In reply to competition

Just look how popular WalMart is in the US. They were turned down for a business licence here as thei hoards of unethical business pactices and exploitation of thid world workers on was brought up.

But it is a consumers paradise for people that want to buy garbage at cheap prices in order to force local businesses into bankruptcy.

Consumers fuel WalMart, not product quality or actually that the prices are lower, in fact many prices go up when WalMat moves in.

It's just the cheap crap that gets sold so cheap, this in turn makes people feel ALL the prices are better at WalMart. It would be good marketing of loss leaders it would even be good businss if they didn't abuse capitalism for their own monetary gains and with total disregard for people or quality merchandise.

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China

by straw_dog In reply to China and the U.S.

China is not a major problem for the US

Most of what China produces is lo-tech (clothes and plastic goods). If all Chinese imports were halted tomorrow these goods would simply have to be imported from south America, India, or eastern Europe.

Japan was a much bigger threat to US manufacturing in the 80s as they were competing in the same markets (cars, hi-tech)

If China keeps modernising, in the future America could have a serious competitor, but this is a long way off.

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