Choosing a New Career Path

I've been reading this thread with much interest, and what I've been tossing around is the idea of specializing in web/data for non-profits and/or those agencies who serve I've been reading this thread with much interest, and what I've been tossing around in the past few months is the idea of specializing in web/data for non-profits and/or those agencies who directly serve others. Hospitals were mentioned quite a few times here, and recently I've "inherited" a niece and nephew that are in need of childrens social services. Some of those websites leave a lot to be desired. I've also developed web and database solutions serving the animal shelter and animal rescue industry, as well as for my church.

I currently work full time for a travel health insurance company and what I do is help my CEO make money. While I'm greatful to be employed, this is not an inspiring goal. I find I'm much more motivated to serve organizations with goals to directly impact and improve people's (and animal's) lives. How to make a living at that seems a little tricky, as it seems that it takes convincing administrators that they need improvement on how their data is handled, or why their website content needs to be refreshed every so often.

I have done much volunteer web/database programming for the homeless pet industry and my church. I continually receive compliments on the solutions I build. (guess I could build a customer quote page)

I would appreciate other's comments on specializing in non-profit areas.

Thanks!

Jennifer
www.PapillonStudio.com

There are alot of good points made by everyone who has contributed to this discussion. I have already made a small jump from concentrating on IT networking to more of accounting/finance area, and let me tell you the market demand is not that great for people without experience in those areas also.

I would suggest that you redefine what you have learned from your application of your IT knowledge. For example, why did your boss/manager want you to make changes to the programs, how did that help the organization. Some of the points that a business focused education would expect you to learn.

If you decide to go back to school (not to teach) definitely choose a program that has a high success rate in placing its candidates with internships or post-graduate careers. The market is flooded with experienced people in all career fields which makes it difficult for new graduates seeking jobs.

There probably many other factors that you need to consider before you make your choice, but if you have to work for the rest of your life it would be wise to choose something that you like and something that you do well.

Good Luck!

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings."

Great! Sounds like someone is setting low expectations and consistantly exceeding them.

Here is a bit of career advise for you.
Go into worm farming.... In fact I've thought of doing this myself and incorporating my IT skills and knowledge by passing out aircards at my baitstand... Fantzypantz' bait and internet cafe... You can go surfin' when the fish ain't byte-in...

P.S. Does anybody know's a good capital venturist willing to invest?

With your programming experinece I think this would be a good match for someone with your skill sets.

Questions you should be asking yourself is why your boss/manager wanted you to make the changes to the application.

The entire job market is looking for people with experience, and can apply their experience to help the company grow, cut expenses, and successfully implement changes.

Becoming an expert in one area would probably help to focus your talents rather being a someone with a lot of knowledge but not able to proceed to the next level and easily replaceable.

Sleepin Dawg... you votin for kerry?

I believe the best IT people are those who think process flow, including business, work flow and code structure. Many failures of IT projects are due to loss of keeping the business goal in focus at the high level as changes at the granular level are made.
Alston Davis

I had the same issues 4 years ago and I decided to have a go at IT project management / Project management. After all if you've seen every mistake then your half way to being a good project Manger (well that?s the thinking).

It was a very hard hill to climb especially breaking into new ground where non-IT Project managers do not take kindly to 'new blood'.

That said an extraordinary thing happened, I spotted an area of Project management that really needed a modern IT solution to help deliver projects properly, with out my experience I would not have had the chance to see this view.

3 years later and I am launching my own company from the shell company I used for contracting and glad that I made that jump, so good luck and give it a go!

Ed

www.ControlledProjects.com

I don't know if anyone has come back to you with any valid suggestions. I don't have time to wade through all this. After spending half an hour I have seen nothing. I guess it's easier to wax philosophical than to give any suggetions. Hope all these philosophers aren't caught with their pants down. I have give some thought to the issue also. I have been a consultant in the past and enjoyed it. I have noticed there are a lot of small businesses that need help. They don't know much about security, anitvirus, etc. It seems like one might be able to make a decent living servicing small businesses. No need to change carreer fields but it takes a lot of research to take care of all the red tape involved in starting your own small business.

Hope this is of some small help.

G

I have been thinking of the same thing. I am a technical support analyst and there aren't too many positions out there to choose from. What newspaper have you been looking at?

Is not everything I said true? Why is it that upper management and executives are always right (whether they really are or not)? I think the reason you wouldn't hire me, is because I'm on to the fact that you executive types really have no skills or special knowledge, (after all do you really have to go to Whartons for 4 years to know that laying off labor employees or cutting their pay will increase the bottom line?). The knowledgeable exutive is one that will come up with an idea (maybe even an original idea) that will increase profits without laying off labor or cutting ther pay/benefits. One way to do this is to fire some of the executives and get the remaining executives off the golf course and out of useless meetings and make them actually do some work. And of course you could cut the executives pay (oops, I forogot, executives are untouchable). Anyway, I'd hate to see an executive have to give up one of his Beemers or one of his vacation homes to save a few jobs.

I only advocate the "learning to speak business" for the person who wants to have a dynamic and growing career. It might be nice if more users had better technical training but I am only trying to speak to and assist the IT professional get ahead. We can talk all we want about what should be but I prefer to work with what is.

I also think you are missing the point of the Saturday Night Live parody. It wasn't to point out that users are clueless but that the "computer guy" was clueless, arrogant, and ineffective. You are right that in many cases, it is "true."

I wrote, The IT Career Builder's Toolkit and it was picked up by Cisco Press (due for release in January 2005) after taking part and offering a lot of information on discussion forums and in articles.

It was the biggest problem in IT in the late '90s and is still the biggest challenge. Check out the articles on EWeek (Bridging the Gap) and on ComputerWorld (Save us From Genius).

I don't advocate a "learn business and let your tech skills slip." It isn't an either/or. You should strive for both/and - technical skills, business acumen, communication skills, etc.

I still work in the IT trenches (in fact, I am writing a series of automation databases from a coffee house for one of my clients) and earn more now than in the '90s. I work part-time and consult for a few niche companies. Opportunities exist, but not if your claim to career fame is a degree is MIS and a litany of certs.

Solutions are the commodity of the technology professional - not the tools you use or even your mastery of those tools.

That is my take. Everyone should certainly form your own opinion but if you have been struggling to find or create opportunities, you may want to go a slightly different direction.

Matt

I started off as an optimist. It's easy to do when your young and every thing is right with the world. Yes it can be challenging, but what the hey, every thing is working. I was laid off so go back to school, IT based this time, Wow it worked I got a better job. Again every thing is good and people are stupid to be pessimistic. Then I got laid off the next good job because of situations out of my control, a little more IT school fixed it, but this time it took awhile to get a new job. Now I'm back looking, again I had good job performance but the company just couldn?t make it, this time more school isn't an option. To get more will not change the fact that there are a qazillion people with Masters and 6-7 certifications and 10 years experience looking too. When I apply I'm told that 170 others have applied. I don't want to be classified as a pessimist, and have gone beyond the level of optimist.
There is one other level, which is that of a realist. Keep trying, do your best, realize that things are tight, but keep an open mind. Maybe try a hobby your good at. It might not make the big bucks, but it is possible to maybe make more. The only way of getting that job is to keep selling your self to everyone including yourself.
The accounting profession does have IT based functions. If your not into accounting try and find a service based function that has a lot of data based needs, purchasing has a some IT type functions, or more important maybe some small shop is still going it without computers. If you?re like me I'm not wild about convincing people to buy some widget, but sales can be a good outlet for a tech type with the right widget. Good Luck

I don't now how this became political but,
you can blame NAFTA. We do not manufacture most of our goods. Big companies will look at the bottom line. If it is cheaper to make something overseas they will do it. China and India both have growing economies. They will be using alot more natural resources (oil for one). As for the previous administration warning the present one about terrorists, we could have had bin laden handed to us back in 98 but Clinton said no. Instead he chose to bomb a pill factory and some abandoned camp.

As for your new career DEUSBELLI, why don't try becoming a chef? That's my next career move.

SSgt GNX
US Army (ret)
160th SOAR

I am a network administrator and love IT though for me it's not a job or career, I do this for fun. To me technology stuff are toys. Me I'm a baker by trade, with sawmilling skills to call upon though loved working in the education field of special needs and it's in this area where you become creative in adapting, developing, or devising technology for those with some form of impairment. Think of your skills as mobile, transferable into any field.

As an IT pro for 33 years in differnt capacities, I encorage you to look for a different profession as a primary career. IT as we know it is dead. In the near future, anyone who graduates from college regardless of the profession must have IT skills to write programs and manage hardware. IT as a specialty is no longer economically viable so get ready to see the user take a more active role to satisfy his/her own needs. For those jobs requiring special skills, labor is aplenty overseas and managing an Oracle DB for a fraction of the cost from Bengladore is now feasble. Sure there will still be some need for specialized IT but the landscape will be entirely different.
Take a clue from the enrollments in universities where some of them are only 60% of capacity in IT.
Congratulations for taking the first step and recognizing what needs to be done.
BTW those who call you pessimistic do so only because they have a job.
Good luck!
lcw

The point I was trying to make is: If there is a communication gap between IT and management why should the onus be on the IT guy? If one of the 2 has to learn new skills why shouldn't management at least have to meet the IT people half-way? And if you think I'm saying this because I don't like to learn new things or am lazy or stupid, that's not the case (in my humble opinion). IT is my 3rd career and I just turned 46 years old. I had excellent grades in high school but skipped college for a career in auto mechanics. Six years into that I got hooked on flying and decided to become a pilot. I couldn't get into military aviation without a college degree so I did it all on my own and eventually made it to American Airlines. While flying for American I got interested in computers and went back to school (when I could) to learn computer science. When American (unwisely) decided to close their Nashville hub (another brilliant decision by those Wharton guys) I ended up in New York. At the time, the future didn't look to bright for a 7 year captain at American and looked much better at ValuJet in Atlanta. I was hired by ValuJet and 2 days before my last day at American, ValuJet had the infamous crash in the everglades. At first they said it wouldn't cause any problems and they would only postpone my starting date, but as we all know, they ultimately ceased operations completely. This left me unemployed. I went back to school full time for a while (until money got short) and then went to work at an entry level helpdesk position. Since then I have worked my way up to a pretty good job as a Network Admin.

The point to all that is that I have the ability to learn new things and adapt, but what I don't understand is why management is always off limits, never put any burden or blame on them. It seems that if they are so far above the rest of us, learning something new should be no problem for them.

Also, if I'm going to go back to school to learn business, why would I want to stay in IT? The management types drive Beemers, Lexus, Mercedes, etc. and live in $500,000.00 homes and have vacation property. I live in an apartment and drive a Ford Ranger. So if I'm going to learn business, I'd be a fool not to go all the way and become management.

As to the SNL parody, MY point was, why is it the IT guy's fault? I'm not a doctor, never planned to be and never will be, but I know what an anastomosis is. I wasn't required to learn that and it doesn't help me in my job, but the way I see it is that there's no penalty for having learned it.

I hope this helps explain my position.

The point I was trying to make is: If there is a communication gap between IT and management why should the onus be on the IT guy? If one of the 2 has to learn new skills why shouldn't management at least have to meet the IT people half-way? And if you think I'm saying this because I don't like to learn new things or am lazy or stupid, that's not the case (in my humble opinion). IT is my 3rd career and I just turned 46 years old. I had excellent grades in high school but skipped college for a career in auto mechanics. Six years into that I got hooked on flying and decided to become a pilot. I couldn't get into military aviation without a college degree so I did it all on my own and eventually made it to American Airlines. While flying for American I got interested in computers and went back to school (when I could) to learn computer science. When American (unwisely) decided to close their Nashville hub (another brilliant decision by those Wharton guys) I ended up in New York. At the time, the future didn't look to bright for a 7 year captain at American and looked much better at ValuJet in Atlanta. I was hired by ValuJet and 2 days before my last day at American, ValuJet had the infamous crash in the everglades. At first they said it wouldn't cause any problems and they would only postpone my starting date, but as we all know, they ultimately ceased operations completely. This left me unemployed. I went back to school full time for a while (until money got short) and then went to work at an entry level helpdesk position. Since then I have worked my way up to a pretty good job as a Network Admin.

The point to all that is that I have the ability to learn new things and adapt, but what I don't understand is why management is always off limits, never put any burden or blame on them. It seems that if they are so far above the rest of us, learning something new should be no problem for them.

Also, if I'm going to go back to school to learn business, why would I want to stay in IT? The management types drive Beemers, Lexus, Mercedes, etc. and live in $500,000.00 homes and have vacation property. I live in an apartment and drive a Ford Ranger. So if I'm going to learn business, I'd be a fool not to go all the way and become management.

As to the SNL parody, MY point was, why is it the IT guy's fault? I'm not a doctor, never planned to be and never will be, but I know what an anastomosis is. I wasn't required to learn that and it doesn't help me in my job, but the way I see it is that there's no penalty for having learned it.

I hope this helps explain my position.

This gent is of the impression that he is not going to have an opportunity in IT....perhaps he knows something the rest of you don't....

Instead of MOST of you asking follow up questions (perhaps he lives in a very competitive area or his resume needs updating), most of you were eager to criticize him and/or be rude.

After 30 years of IT, my success has been driven by my williness to give people the benefit of the doubt and share my knowledge through guidance to others.

Criticizing and /or blaming benefit no one and reflects on YOU more than anyone else.

It seems so many of you lack or missed the book on how to be professional!

My 3 cents....

The idea was not to go out and get every certification there is. What many of people do not understand is that there is a demand for people in IT in the healthcare and Finance industries, but, and here is the but...

YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE OR EXPERIENCE IN IT IN ORDER TO BECOME PART OF THAT SEGMENT!

Many people go out and get MSCE with Internet. That is fab! You can now do Microsoft skillsets that are related to the internet. Tells me nothing more. CCNA? Even better, it means you can do a Cisco product in the networking closet and get the Microsoft Box to connect to it.

But what are your specialties? You have to have a specialty in order to survive with the rest of them in your mind as well.

It DOES matter that you are proficient in what you claim to be in. No proficiency just makes you a paper tech. Companies need experience with that tech or don't bother.

Paper Techs were yesterday. Experience is back and it is nailing alot of careers to the Tombstone.

There is a simple solution.

Don't listen to the TV, Radio, or any other news agency.

Then vote what you thing is right.

"Do you live in the US?
Do you live in the same country I do? You keep saying that we should "focus on the good news". What good news? Could you let me in on it. The fact is that it is big business and their political influence that is ruining/has ruined this country and to believe otherwise is just burying your head in the sand."

Are the comments of a person who is attached to the TV watching Dan Rather with opinion, and not news.

The IT industry is suffering, job wise due to the following:
1. Too many certified people. Dozens will show up for a job all with A+ certificates and a lot with MCSE ones. About 1/3 of them don't really know what they are doing and have to be shown a lot of things they should areeady know. A number will have bad attitudes. Some will want to be promoted too fast. Some will leave as soon as a job paying more is availalbe.

2. Servers and workstations are easy to build and setup. Typically a small group of people will build and certify an image for a workstation or server and the installation of that image can be done by a low skilled person.
3. Outsourcing is becoming more common. There are lots of cusotmer complaints about overseas service but most calls are fixed by simple reboots or server resets.
4. Some companies are going to 'lights out' server farms. That makes it easy to outsource the support or have just a few employees handle them. Of course there needs to be a physical presence for the occassional server that will not reboot but that is minimal.
5. Middle Managers - many of them need to go where laywers should go... need I say more?

That is some of the issues affecting the IT job market toady.

I have been in the business since 1972, have worked at a number of large businesses including a credit union, facilities management firm, hospital and two large banks. I was employed by Seafirst Bank (before B of A) bought them out. I was the first one in the NW paid a salary to specialize in Micro Computers in 1980. Yes, I did know someone who worked on 86DOS before it became MS DOS. So, I've seen it all and have lived through the progression of DP to IT. I currently work for the Itty Bitty Machine Company.

Pleasy reply if you agree or disagree with my assessment.
Thanks
Vince Pepe
Seattle, WA

Could your comments be those of a big business owner or executive that likes being able to buy politicians so that the business climate is always favorable for the upper managent/executives and unfavorable for the common worker?

... I want to slit my wrists after reading all this.

:)

Passion. Find your passion. Become the best. Learn to articulate thought. Learn to write well. Study grammar and spelling. Be reasonably adept at relating to your fellow man (or at least inhibiting the desire to physically harm him). Don't have more children than you can comfortably support (this may mean curbing your sexual desires - I know - I ask a lot). These are the keys to success.

by one side sounds realistic... cause outside we can really find lots of engineers, but also lots of professionals in other fields... all the markets are saturated. on the other side... why not be the best in something specific (a friend told me that, study and be the number one in something). right now im unemployed, like a LOT of ppl outside... so i guess what we have to do is keep on searching in our field or in other that may interest us. if you still want a change...administration, finance, economics, all related to maths.... electronic, mecanics, civil, all related to math and engineer too. the reality here, in Peru, is like this: everyyear you can see more and more professionals seeking for jobs.... only a few get a job in their fields, all the rest work in whatever except their careers (my last job was in an administrative position... im a system engineer).
good luck!

You may have a point about the Democrats; however, the Rupublicans keep pissing on me and telling me it's raining. We need a party that is going to tell it straight and try to do something about it. Not lie and cover up the pain.

What is so bad with this country? Where is all the ruin? You must have extra money to afford this Internet connection you are using, or better yet, you must have a job and be using your boss's (big business) Internet connection.

We have 6% unemployment in this country. That is not so bad is it?

I too am an IT pro. I am in my late 30's with 10 years experience and looking to a future of declining jobs and age descrimination. I am currently taking a class and deciding whether I want to go back to school to become a degreed and certified teacher. I.T. is a young man's game, and I will be 40 next year. I know that in 10 years time I will find myself out of work and un employable because of my age. Whatever you decide to get into, remember that not many people are retiring from IT these days, they are downsized and out sourced!

How many dilapidated big cities are run by Republicans? The Democrats have been running them since FDR days and have only increased poverty in all of them. Nice job. Let's keep voting for them; they are doing such a good job. They give a guy $50 more in his welfare check instead of giving him the education and the will to succeed. Most of the poor people would opt for the $50, so the Democrats win their vote.

Many of them don't to pick the guy that says work harder when they can pick a guy that says work less and make more babies and here is a $50 raise. Think about it.

Are YOU kidding? The fact that I can afford an internet connection proves that there is nothing wrong in this country? I think what you are inferring is that as long as the common worker can exist (albeit a bare existence) it's OK that owners and managers of big businesses live in the lap of luxury. Forgive me, but I find a lot wrong with that picture.

I find it oddly funny that your response is so negative given your feelings. Rather than respond with negativity why wouldn't you respond with positivity in order to lead by example. This is something that is overlooked even in Television these days. It's possible to affect one's environment with a positive outlook.

I disagree that the Democratic party is filled with pessimists. I think that it's pervasive in the US right now for a lot of different reasons (but i will spare you my rhetoric on this.) The solution to the problem is to be positive. To recognize yourself being negative, and correct it. By being negative yourself, you are contributing to the overall negativity and perpetuating the negative trend.

I thought your post was very clever, but i'm having trouble finding an answer to the original question. Should this person be concerned about losing his/her job to someone more qualified because there will be less IT jobs in the near future? I don't think so. I do believe that IT will continue to change with the computer industry, and the industries that it supports. As long as you keep up with the changes, there will always be people who don't want to or can't support their workstations.

I assume you have some hobbies, things you do just because you love to do them. Don't dismiss them as not being possible careers. If you feel you don't know enough in one of these things to make it a career, then you do know enough to start doing it while you hone your skills and improve your knowledge. Pursue your choice(s) among these while still holding your present job, which I do hope you do have. Anything one does for the sheer joy of doing it is something one can do for a living; all you have to do is start seeing your pleasure activity as a way to earn money. Joseph Campbell was right: "Follow your bliss." In time, you can make it pay enough to quit IT when you like, if that's your desire.

Take it from a sixty-year-old: I'm in my third career, and I love it.

You want to talk about the Republicans lying when Clinton lied not only to the people, but also UNDER OATH about his relationships? I think you have the wrong people in mind about the lying. GW has said what he was going to do, and done it consistently from the beginning of his current term. How much is Kerry hiding and not willing to divulge? GW has opened all his records for public scrutiny, while Kerry refuses to open his.

Have you considered working in libraries?

I'm an Australian (for your USA people it pronounced ozzie, not Ossy), so US politics don't interest me.
Some words of wisdom.
Ask the people at the top how they got their, a small portion will say luck, the rest will say "I work my self to the bone", and of these they may say they were always looking to move ahead to the next stage. Never letting the thought of failure move in. Here in Australia and other parts of the world, the Ultra wealthy (wealthy meaning don't have to work, but money works for them) let their children start up companies and teach them some basics, i'f te company fails, then a lesson was learn't, no thought of them being a complete failure.
Instead of letting the industry lead you, become an industry leader!!
I believe Robert Kiyosaki's books and literature are a great example of career and financial strategy. Give them a go.
In finishing remember this, the only person who lost is the onee who gave up and stopped

My experience is that when the Corporate world isn't looking the greatest, start a small business.

I left my corporate job in 1998 and haven't looked back. I currently own and run my own IT consulting business. I service small and medium business' with just about every IT need they can come up with. And I make over twice as much as I did in my Corporate job. (Net is about 55% more than my corporate job). Not to mention how flexible my time is. Yes, I am on call, but our SLA's are a 4 hour to next day responce for emergencies.

If you can talk to clients in normal english, have a good upbeat personallity, and can treat every tech help caller like they are the smartest person you know, you can be a sucessfull independent IT consultant.

There is some truth to what you say...I work in a blended field of IT and accounting. I think we are own worst enemies, because there is always another IT person who is willing to do what you can do for less...shortage of jobs depresses wages...Find a job and make yourself irreplaceable, use your IT skills to help the business you own or work for advance itself, find ways you can cut costs or do two jobs at once, this gives you value to a business and can boost your career.

HEY! Grow up and smell the catnip. What goes around comes around. Do something YOU like, not what is HOT today. .... for as surely as the dusk follows the dawn, what is hot cools off, and tomorrow will bring another "hot item."

So, forget the "HOT" items and figure out what YOU like to do. If you don't enjoy it, you will never be successful.

62 and still kicking butt

Let's say you were making $50K/yr and, in Ohio, depending on how many dependents you have & other factors, unemployment pays half that, or $25k/yr. Unemployment ends after 26 weeks and you have to work at McWendy's for $7/hr. That equates to $14k/yr, or less than what you were making on unemployment.

"...Have you ever heard a main-stream Democrat articulate what's right about society and the world? ..."

Constantly. When Democrats talk about giving to the people who WORK for a living, instead of feeding off the work of others (Earned income instead of UNearned income) Democrats are talking about what is right in the world.

When Democrats talk about protecting AMERICANS from unfair monopolists, they are talking about everything good in America.

When REpublicans talk, all they say is "kill" and "Safety" and "revenge" and "Hate Liberals" (See Annthrax new best seller for example, or the Swift boat lies).

To admit that the massive outsourcing of work to nations which did not have their people working 100 hour weeks in order to create the IT, Hardware and Software industries is unjust and contrary to our national interest is not to be pessimistic, simply being realistic.

But to acknowlege the truth seems to rankle the rightwingers terribly.

With your wealth of IT knowledge and experience I would think that these skills could be applied somewhere else within the IT world. I've been thinking along the same lines as you and I'm not too keen on accounting or finances either. I'm seriously considering something in "management". For example, how about "project management"? It has its headaches and high stress levels, but working in IT already prepares you for that. Now the question arises, "how to make the career change". I recommend that you take classes that focus on these themes and then start doing the networking with co-workers, friends, etc. to help with the transistion. But like anything else, expect to start at the bottom. Anyway take a look into this field; maybe it's right up your alley. Good Luck!!!

Welcome to Beloit, Wi. I count about 4-5,000 jobs gone in this area of 40,000 people and 15,000 jobs in the Rock River Valley over the last 4 years. It does no good to take political sides. Blow Job Billie, the democrat, signed NAFDA and the China Trade Agreement.Away go the jobs. Bush, the republican, does nothing about it but subsidize the loss with corporate tax breaks and more "free trade" legislation.The politicians in general SOLD US DOWN THE RIVER!!!
We have to survive this and cover our own butts, so I have have always been an advocate of diversifying your time and talents. I run my own little shop here and can tell you for a fact the business is getting smaller for lots of reasons. Job loss's, shriviling customer incomes, cheap PC and parts prices offered by the "walmarts" out there to name a few. I will keep doing what I am and will continue to add new customers at a somewhat disappointing pace. I am also in the process of obtaining my real estate license.I have prior experience in the business and can work it in with what I am doing here and hope to fill in the slack time, and hopefully our economy finds some kind of recovery to make both ventures somewhat successful. In the meantime my advise to anyone would be NEVER have all your eggs in 1 basket.If they go rotten you could get into trouble.

I worked in a very large hospital for over 14 years, seven of them as a departmental IT manager. Most hospitals are struggling with the same issues of most enterprise networks. The major issues seem to be automated patient care management, billing issues, patient privacy/security of their records, constantly having to accomodate new technology on the network (i.e. computed radiograpy - CR), and wireless devices for direct patient care.

Not to oversimplify, nor to insult the health care IT professionals, but most of the IT issues and their possible solutions can be solved by someone with a solid IT background and a willingness to work with a variety of differing interests among the health care specialties.

A hospital is a GREAT place to work in the IT profession. Health care folks are constantly looking for better and more efficient ways to deliver quality health care to their patients. That makes for an excellent atmosphere for an open minded IT professional.

Check it out!

I was in awe at the initial replies to this post. "Cry yourself a river" type comments, all the way up to the political slants of some of our members... Unbelievable.

The poster's dilemna is a valid one - I myself often joke that if I had to do it all over again, I'd shine shoes for a living (as per hour I'd probably make more than I do now! Almost...). I'm tired of shouldering all the responsibility and being held accountable for the (in)actions of others, even when it was something I had no control over.

I know it's common, but I'm tired of working on almost every single day off, including vacations. Just because "everyone else does it" doesn't make it right.

I'm tired of the 24x7x365 mantra because I'm the only guy with a clue. I'm tired of "merit" raises that amount to less than even the cost of living (and, even though the pool is traditionally 3%, I get anywhere from 4-6 - which STILL has NOTHING to do with merit!). I'm tired of seeing some of those around me get promoted and make more, even when I and their coworkers know how incompetent they are. Amazing what playing golf can do for you...

I'm tired of working with people who don't have a tenth my responsiblity, half my knowledge nor a hundredth of my dedication, but somehow seem to skate along just fine.

I'm tired of being taken advantage of, period.

The IT market is saturated, and there are WAAAY too many people who call themselves "administrators" of one type or another who couldn't administer themselves out of a paper bag. I talk to admins that, somehow, have managed to stay in their jobs despite a very obvious lack of even the most basic skills. I find that often they are getting by simply by BS'ing everyone into thinking someone else was at fault. It's more common than I ever would have thought, and it's people like that who are taking our jobs, the good jobs. Because of their being INEPT, they are far more willing to take less pay and are diluting the job pool. That, and poorly thought out and written labor laws will now make most of us exempt from overtime. Don't like 60 hour weeks? Tough. Don't like it? Quit. I'll hire the guy who's been out of work for 6 months and he'll be HAPPY to do it - and for even less than you!

If having you work overtime doesn't cost the employer, then what's to stop them from taking advantage of you? One word: NOTHING! Employers (I'll use the term "Big Business" here) are out to make money, not be philantropists. They (generally) don't give a rat's ass about you, period. You can be replaced, and at the drop of a hat, at that.

Our market is diluted by a lot of people, most which probably are proficient. Some don't know enough to even effectively work AOL support lines, however they manage to hold down jobs as "administrators". That, coupled with the long hours required for a lot of us, as well as the responsibility, make IT something I'm considering putting in my past.

I used to be enthusiastic. I used to think that dedication, proficiency and hard work would add up to something. Not here, not now. Not with this employer, at least. And from what I see the opportunities for REAL growth and advancement don't exist unless you fall into what would be the equivalent of planetary alignment. I know guys - COMPETENT guys! - who work in Los Angeles proper and only make $45K per year. $45,000 a YEAR! IN LOS ANGELES, CA!!

Anyone wanna ask me about that shoeshine analogy again?

One wouldn't know it by this rambling, but I'm one of those guys who always tries to see the silver lining. Administrators have to be somewhat pessemistic by nature, I believe (what if THIS went wrong and THIS went wrong?! You have to anticpate and plan for the unexpected). And maybe some of that has rubbed off to my persona. However, I don't see that the opportunities that some of you are stating are really THERE. Maybe in your mind, but not in reality. Has ANYONE checked the job boards lately? Are there LOCAL jobs to you that pay what you should rightfully expect? Or has the market made our SKILLS a simple commodity, like buying a loaf of bread?

WE are some of the people that keep the world running. WE are highly skilled and professional, and shoulder a lot of responsibility. Why should we make less than your average garage mechanic? (Another joke is that my mechanic gets more training than I do... Sad, but true!) Why, I wonder, don't IT workers have a UNION?! I don't LIKE unions, but all the uncompensated overtime would come to a screeching halt. I'm tired of getting my dinner and family time interrupted by a page or a phone call. Tonight, for instance, I got a call right after my 7 year old started reading me a book. I missed out on that and made her feel like crap because, once again, I had to drop everything because I had to work.

Admins, in particular, can't really be replaced by outsourcing. That's one of those presences that really need to be there.

I actually used to LIKE my job - but now, my biggest challenge is trying to find the time to do even a few of my "number one" priorities. Challenges I can accomplish are no problem - bring 'em on. But tidal wave after tidal wave of "important" stuff that "has to" get done "now" is just ridiculous. Why hire an additional person when we can make you stay for nothing?

It's all old, and I personally see no future. You'd think that after 10 years of this I'd be somewhere, and have a shot at something higher, but since my org chart is flat, and we "can't have *THREE* leaders in the department", I can go nowhere until someone retires in, what, 15 years? For a 5K per year increase. Um, yeah, sure... I'll wait.

I too am thinking about my options - I should EASILY be able to handle a management position, possibly overseeing projects. Managers seem to hang around the 100-125K territory, which is about where I think I ought to be (NOW! Not in 20 years...). Why is it that many of us can't do that now? There are also certainly a lot of incompetent managers, too, that could stand to be replaced (*raises hand* had one...).

No more "boo-hoo"'s - does anyone have any REAL suggestions? Think about it: most of us have problem crisis/management/resolution skills, can work in teams (well, some of us), and tend to be flexible. What would be the most transparent move?

Sorry to drone on, and maybe I'm being a bit negative today, but I'm really tired of living to work instead of the other way around...

Hi,

I would suggest that perhaps you can venture into the field as an IT Auditor or at least IT management or Information Analyst . I am sure all these field will definitly utilize your skills may not to the maximum but at least it's used. The difference is that your skills might not be used in the developement but can read and use in the paper form.

It's only part of the suggestion but I am sure that there's many field to go as most of the fields require IT staff to maintain or develop the system for them. Alternatively IT auditor also not a bad choice as the job fucntion is to ensure compliances and security.

And you call Republicans the optimists? She is right- IT is going south- I have been in it for many years, and common sense tells me this, that or when they call you from fucking India for even you Guitar Center bill let alone your Dell bill or tech support. The party system in general is null, void, unimportant, and unoriginal- not to mention NOT in power. Pick a better anology.

Passion for your carreer!

I do not know if you will be able to read this afterall. But I am replying anyway.

It is true that there a lot of IT today. Most of then have certifications to back them out. But very few, only a handful really is an IT. Why? Because as you said, it is over-hyped. Oh, I see, you must be one of those so and so IT. With a lot of knowledge and etcetra with very little knowhow on what they are supposed to do, or doing. You must put you heart into it, my man.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

It is true also that additonal carrerr knowledge wont hurt. Especially if it is totally unrelated to IT. Me, for example. I am also my company's pollution control officer. I did some training on pollution control and I using it right now. Alongside with being an IT. Yeah, its a dual function job, but that is another story. But the feeling is great. And I like it. But I am still an IT.

My hunch is, you are bored. If you want a carreer turn, fine. But do not foresake what job you really like.

"In what career field could someone with my skills really excel?" My answer is, measure yourself up first. Like I said, maybe you are just bored yourself.

.
............"You're a ******' dumbass"

You should have said you're, not your.

You're welcome.

According to http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_unemployment_IL.html, "The value of unemployment benefits in Illinois differs from that of other states because each state unemployment office applies its own formulas and limits when calculating the level of unemployment compensation."
Not encouraging.

Using a table that compares all states (found at http://atlas.doleta.gov/unemploy/sigprojul2003.asp) I see that the maximum possible in Illinois, no matter what your prior income or how many dependents, tops out at $438/week = $22,776 per year.

So, McWendy's at $7/hr. is definately less than unemployment. You'd need to make $11.39/hr to equal unemployment.

The question im my mind then, is this: Can an unemployed professional count on finding at least a "filler" or temp position somewhere that provides full time $11.39/hr. or better? I'm not being a smart-ass, I am truely curious what the word is from those who've been-there-and-done-that.

I am interested in your reponse to K- 12 education as I have considered this myself. I have an education background that I have not used in forever. Do you support the network and applications and for how many schools?

I have just decided to change my career path a few days ago but I am going to get my RN license in one year becasue of my Bachalors degree. I found that University of Michigan has a "Secondary Career Degree" program for the RN license. What's hard is finding a field you enjoy and can receive the same salary as your previous field.

Changing a new career path will also depend on your age and experience. There are so many companies that will not hire someone older.

I am 50 years old but I don't believe I will find it hard to get a job as a nurse. I have 12 years experience in the medical field and 18 years in the computer field.

Just be sure to choose a field that is in dyer need of employees. Otherwise you might not get a job.

How would someone who was a programmer/developer qualify for a position as a Business Anaylst?

Well, I guess we have slightly different perspectives. Having known executive managers who have been laid-off and who have worked diligently to keep their employees working, I'll maintain my perspective.

It could be that I am just lucky. I have consulted for many, many, many, many companies over the past 12 years. I notice that partners, owners, and management log the longest hours - come in during holidays, and routinely are the people I see at the office on the weekend.

Are there bad one's? Sure, without a doubt. But they idea that business owners & executive management are on a free-ride, gravy train, is a myth. Most business owners & executives work long hours for years and incur incredible risk to develop a profitable business.

Having been one to play all of those roles during my career (employee, owner, executive) I can tell you - without any doubt - the employee role is easier. At least in terms of risk, stress, and difficulty.

In terms of potential and personal fulfillment, employee, for me, is less desirable. You make decisions every day that determine which of those roles you wish to play.

In any case, it has been an interesting discussion. I wish you well. I don't receive any notification on these discussion and check them infrequently so I may or may not see any more replies unless someone specifically brings them to my attention.

Thanks.

Your resume is almost identical to mine, however I left the IT market in 1994 when I could no longer keep up with the younger guys. I learned electronics wneh vacuum tubes were the only devices for electronics. I have since tried retail sales and even a printing press operator.
My only way to stay cuurent and active in the IT
arena is thru barter. I trade my skills for the
things I need. This has resulted in a large cooperative that handles no money. This is not direct however, I may repair one persons computer
to aquire medical or nursing skill from another.
Two tears now and I'm still able to support my family. Sometimes I have to work a 4 or 5 way barter deal to get some services but it hasn't failed me yet.

I agree 100% with the original poster. The IT field is going downhill drastically from a standpoint of career development (at least from my perspective). My company overall (3000+ employees worldwide) have 4 certified Microsoft MCSEs. 1 of those 4 is stuck at a PC Technician position (who also has his CCNA). Myself and two others support approximately 80 servers. Hardware, software, builds, technical issues, repairs, Manage a Citrix farm of 16 servers, and do project work to boot.In the last almost 5 years of doing my job well I have had an increase of apprximately $4,000 total! I don't even make the industry average in my area of the country (Baltimore). What does this say for me leaving and going elsewhere you ask? The same thing. Every job offer, every potential employer wants you to make the same or less to do the same amount of work or more. The industry as a whole stinks and I am venturing out on my own to stake a claim.

You may be lucky enough to be sitting in a pleasant atmosphere, making good money, and maybe doing very little but don't sit there and berate a fellow IT professional for his disgust with his situation. Especially, when 9 times out of 10 it is not hsi fault that he is in the position that he is in. That is plain rude and inconsiderate.

You make a negative post blaming the Dems for everything that is wrong in your life, and yet you are a positive person? You bashed the Dems and said not one single solitary positive remark about repubs(or anything for that matter). This was a totally non political question before you interjected your negative opinion about how all these IT problems can be blamed on the Democrats who aren't in the White house right now. And you see yourself as the optimist in this line of logic?

Let me give you the positive scoop about Dems. We care about things that might not be of personal gain to us. We put our countries best interest before that of our own pay checks, our own guns, and our own taxes. I love to work on cars, yet I'm willing to deal with EPA restrictions cause I know the environment is more important than my love for tinkering. I care about the poor even though I'm not poor myself and don't use any public assitance. I support the right to bare arms, even though I don't own a gun. I support a woman's right to choose even though I am pro life for myself. I support giving tax breaks to the working class that made this country as great as it is, not to the top 1%. These are a few of the items that Dems support. So try thinking outside of what Rush tells you to think. You might find the Dems are fighting for your best interests. Unless you're filthy rich and only care about money. In that case, W in 04! :p

Mike

cbtoolkit, I hope you see this. Thanks for joining in this discussion and sharing your 2 cents worth. You seem like a pretty cool guy and I think I'd like to meet you. I just had to add this to the discussion.

I do realize there are good owners/managers out there because I am working for one now. So I believe what your saying when you talk about the good ones you've known. However I have found this to mostly be true in the smaller, privately held companies where the owner/owners DO have a lot at risk (usually everything they have ever owned and hope to own). These type owners seem to realize though that they do need their employees (all of them) and that the best way to keep good employees is to treat them fairly.

Now, on the other hand, I wonder if you have ever worked for or been involved with a company such as American Airlines (actually AMR Inc.)? I don't know if you are familiar with their history of adversarial type management, but I am and I can, without reservation or hesitation assure you that "the idea that business owners & executive management are on a free-ride, gravy train", is not a myth at many companies. What do CEO's/executives at publicly held companies stand to lose that their company didn't give them? They don't put up any money or buy a stake in the business when they come on board. In fact, they are mere employees like the rest of us (but treated very differently). I know you're going to say their reputations and any future positions they may seek, but the reality is, at least with the airlines, is that if a CEO can manage to bankrupt and otherwise totally ruin one airline - for some strange reason, all the other airlines start trying to recruit him! I never understood that one.

Finally, here is a question that I've never gotten a satisfactory answer to:
You say "Having been one to play all of those roles during my career (employee, owner, executive) I can tell you - without any doubt - the employee role is easier. At least in terms of risk, stress, and difficulty."
I've heard this from just about every manager or owner I have ever talked to, including my own brother. So my question is, why do these people never go back to being just an employee ever again, once they've been a manager or owner? I've never met one yet that did.

Cheers,
Scott

I mean the market is shaky right now, but that can be true of any market. If you love IT then you will enjoy the job even if you're making less money at it. If you love the aspects of the job then you will tend to stay on top of things and be ahead of the competition.

it's funny i see these commercials on around for these training schools making all these bogus claims about how great the It market is and there is a despirate need for talented individuals. To an extent it's troubling cause these kids come out thinking they're gonna make dot com bucks, and find the hours are longer and harder than a lot of other jobs making similar bucks. I just think it won't bother you if you're truly interested in the field. If not, dig deep and figure out what you won't mind doing for free. (rockin out madden on Playstation, doesn't count ;) Do some soul searching and figure out where your love is. Then try and find a marketable way to incorporate that talent into a paycheck and I think you'll be happier. Money isn't everything, but usually those with money are doing something they have talent and/or love for.

If there are aspects of the job that you find difficult or a road block, let us know, maybe someone can help.

Good luck,
Mike

.
If you were, where did that come from?

You said that I'm blaming the Democrats for everything that's wrong in my life? Where did I say that? Now I will admit that I blame the Democrats for a lot of things, but not for my own life's outcome. I take things as they are, I accept the cards I've been dealt, and I move on.

Actually, my life's happiness relies on neither the Democrats or Republicans; and regardless of who's in power, my happiness, as well as my future outcome, falls into only one pair of hands - my own.

I don't blame a company if I lose my job; and yes, it's happened.

I don't blame the industry for the inevitable changes or business cycles they experience.

I don't blame my parents for not rearing me in the best manner.

I don't blame the government, regardless of the political party in power, for my problems or the particular situation in which I might find myself.

I don't blame the "rich" (whoever they are) for being greedy and not sharing with me.

I don't blame a person of another color for holding me back.

I don't even blame "bad luck".

I don't blame anyone or anything for whatever I might experience, except one person - myself.

I always try to see the silver lining in the bad things that might fall my way - and there's always been a silver lining.

I lost my job a couple of times in my life, and I always managed to get up better and stronger than before. I've had to change industries, and/or I've had to be creative. I lost a job in my chosen field once, and it was 12 months before I found another one (yes, in the same field). But I shunned the "unemployment" route, I passed on the "whoa-is-me" attitude, and I managed to earn around $3,000 a month while I was looking for a real job.

Life is what YOU make of it, not some politician, not some boss, not some company, and not some industry. Some people choose to cry in their beer over what happens to them, but I choose to look for the path that will lead me to that glass of Champaign. It's a much better use of my time and energy, and the results are always better.

I've doing the IT thing for almost 30 years. Hang in there, your skills shall prevail. The wash-out is in progress and those of us with real skills are in demand. The 90's produced a bunch of 'resume experts' that damn near killed our industry. Don't give up. Get back into school, learn the new stuff, get some certifications, and most importantly, DON'T EVER GIVE UP!

I've doing the IT thing for almost 30 years. Hang in there, your skills shall prevail. The wash-out is in progress and those of us with real skills are in demand. The 90's produced a bunch of 'resume experts' that damn near killed our industry. Don't give up. Get back into school, learn the new stuff, get some certifications, and most importantly, DON'T EVER GIVE UP!

I've doing the IT thing for almost 30 years. Hang in there, your skills shall prevail. The wash-out is in progress and those of us with real skills are in demand. The 90's produced a bunch of 'resume experts' that damn near killed our industry. Don't give up. Get back into school, learn the new stuff, get some certifications, and most importantly, DON'T EVER GIVE UP!

Dear Friend:
If you are young, don't feel guilty if you have to change the path, but do it without complaining.
Last September I celebrated my 'first program' 35th anniversary, a modest Fortran "Read & Print", five punched cards in all.
I wanted to become an Architect but my old man stressed on Chemical Engineering. Since scholarship covered just tuition, complementary funds were negotiated. The last name listed in the College brochure was the winner, something worded like 'Computer Systems Engineering'.
Since then, computing became the tie which has lasted the most along my life (even more than marriage).
I do a modest living, as other of my former classmates do. Most of us hold MSc or PhD degrees. The rich guys built their wealth out of anything but computing stuff.
My elder son already completed half the credits towards his MSc in Chemistry, my daughter became an Architect, my youngest son hopefully will become an MD, only my nephew choose Computer Science (to save our pride).
I love my job, as a man of Software my struggle has been permanent. I?m a Soft-WAR-e warrior, and intend to be the same till the grave.
However, "if I had a chance to do it all again", my choice would be Theoretical Physics along with the same mother for my children!.
Best Regards,
J.Anaya

Hang in there. You see it with a clear eye.

rhfarris@rhfarris.com 678-642-4361 24/7

Hang in there. You see it with a clear eye.

rhfarris@rhfarris.com 678-642-4361 24/7

Schooling is THE direction to take. But, don't leave our industry. Something tells me you have expertise in a needed area. Hang in Sir! Very good projects are coming.

rhfarris@rhfarris.com
678-642-4361 24/7

Schooling is THE direction to take. But, don't leave our industry. Something tells me you have expertise in a needed area. Hang in Sir! Very good projects are coming.

rhfarris@rhfarris.com
678-642-4361 24/7

Must be a data Weenie to have that kind of fear.

There is a new convergence of knowledge, combining statistics, genetics and IT, called bioinformatics. Top professors teach it primarily at NC State University in Raleigh, NC and it's a masters degree program.

This is the way to leverage your IT skills and help mankind in the process. Burgeoning new demand for health care / clinical trials / pharma companies are stumbling over each other, hiring tech based skills with medical, thus adding value to an IT based jobseeker.

IT alone is truly dead as a career. Those who use IT skills as one tool amongst many will be the difference factor.

That oughta raise my salary a bit.

Thanks,
Chaz

Before making a decision, get advice.

Yes, I know that this thread was supposed to do that. But, hey, none of us know you, do we? We don't know what kind of things will make you happy in a job, or what extra skills you may have lurking. So how can we advise you?

Hire yourself a Life Coach. They will help you find what really makes you happy in a job. They will help you choose an education program, if necessary. They will help you dump the baggage that keeps you from making the change that will bring happiness and security.

Yeah, you have to pay Life Coaches. But look at the quality of the advice you are getting for free on this thread. Trust me, it's worth it.

I was stuck in a rut, poorly paid, got no respect, doing boring programming jobs that a 12 year old could handle. I got a life couch who analysed where I wanted to get to, what was holding me back, and helped me develope a program for my life.

I set out on a program of education to get the qualifcations and skills that would let me enter the field I REALLY wanted to be in. Soon I moved into a new job that doubled my salary. Now, four years later, my salary has increased another 25%, I have a house and a baby on the way. I have a job where my skills are respected, by colleague, boss and customer. (I now do AI programming for a railway consultancy - who knew I would find my dream job here?)

It was hard work getting here, but now I can take the time to smell the roses. If you are going to get advice, get it from someone who will take the time to find out what advice you really need.

There are thousands of Life Coaches out there. Each one does things slightly differently. Shop around and find one that you like. I used one from a company called Wisecaterpillar who was happy to work completely through email. That suited me because I can't be doing with all those meetings and telephone calls and stuff. I figure that means that however you want to work, there is one out there that will work like that.

By the way, I don't mean to belittle the well meaning advice you being given by the contributors. I think that the one that you can learn most from is the one who found that getting a qualification did not automatically get them a job. I also agree with the one who suggested "a job which also involves IT". There is no pure IT department where I work. We all are expected to solve our own IT problems.

Whatever.

Good luck, however you decide.
Chaz

I'm in the same boat... as hard as I try, my career in IT has been stunted time and time again. Outsourcing has compiled the job problem, not only in IT, but in so many other industries as well. We live in a country where the sky is the limit to make what you will of your life, and yet the reality is also that we still have limitations based on gender, skin color, etc. The areas where the most jobs are needed, and where there is probably more job security, also pay squat, the hours you need to work are less than ideal, and benefits are few. I don't want to play the blame game like so many others that have responded here, but the fact is we have lost high-paying jobs in this administration, and those that are being created can barely keep anyone above poverty level, especially if you add trying to raise children into the mix. This is based on personal experience, not what I've heard. In any case, I've been watching things closely over the last few years, and I don't see the IT market picking up again any time soon. In my company, as in many others, we are told at least we have a job. We also have one paycheck, but these days one job consists of doing the work of 2 or more people, the quality is down, the demands are up, the pay is down, and the cost of benefits are up. I'm finally taking that as a kick in the butt to go in another direction, and at least find something that may not be financially fulfilling, but at least gives me a good feeling at the end of my work day. But, the hard part is trying to decide where to go from here. There is always the great book, "What Color is Your Parachute?" (2004 edition), and others to help you along. There may be positions out there you've never heard of, let alone thought of, and this book and other resources may give you some areas that interest you, and that you may be able to use your existing skills in. Your love of working with databases and process automation could stem from a love of orderliness, analyzing and solving problems, a desire to make things easier for others. Try to figure out WHY you like the things you do, and you may find a better fit and more enjoyment in something else. If you truly enjoy doing what you do, then it may be worth it to you to stick it out, and hope for the best. Keep networking, and talking to others in the field -- it seems the best jobs lately are found by who you know, not what you know.

Good luck!

A lot of IS techs could easily make the shift into the engineering community with a strong manufacturing company. There are limitless opportunities for a good techy in research and development in such companies, especially if you have a specialized background in say communications, systems, sensor measurements, quality, etc, etc. The marketplace is flooded with people with subpar techy skills who have been degrading the IS world and driving down the salary structure. If you have skills, move to the engineering world. Otherwise, you may find your competing with ex-drivethru employees. :)

RND

Wow looks like TR dredged up an old post.. Didnt don on me until I saw the email address that I know you! UH '99!

Anyhow, I hear ya man.. the IT sector is definately not what it once was. As one of the replies stated, it's sort of like a washout period where businesses are beginning to be more picky and specialized for what they want in IT. All the good jobs are either taken, or have been eliminated. The pay sucks and jobs are going overseas. Enough of the "bleakitude", but its kind of the truth.

Personally, I cannot see myself doing anything other than IT. As much as I would hate to change career paths, if the need was great enough, I guess I would have to.

The only positive way to look at this is to say stick with it and try to improve yourself. The way I see it, the future for truly good IT people is not in the help desks, programmers, or engineer positions, it's in the management of these positions or departments. As much as I love IT I dont think I'd stay a "techie" forever and know there will be a time to move up the ladder. With that said, I am trying to "improve myself" with more certs, and going back to school for a Master's degree. I believe there's gonna be a time in your career where you need to make the executive launch.

It doesn't matter what field your in, all fields (even medical careers), can experience periods of slumps and downturns. First ask yourself if you are committed to staying in the IT field (some soul serching going on here). Once you sell the idea to yourself then it's easier to go out and sell it someone else. There's always room for a few good IT professionals. There's many changes in the industry and helping businesses understand that change and keeping current is where you can make a difference. Remember any company that hires you is making an investment. It's up to you to convince them that they are making a wise investment and getting their money's worth out of it. I can always recommend sales in the IT hardware, software, services or networking area since your IT experience will help very much. Myself, I don't have a degree in IT (or anything) yet I have been able to stay employed in the field since 1981 and I am making more money than ever.

I retired from Unisys Corp after 37 years ..... Had a chance to do some network consulting ..... After a couple of weeks got a job driving a hi-lo in a plant. Great job - don't give a rat's a** if the router is down. if some desk jockey's pc won't logon. if the server got sasser or code red.
No stress, just move big boxes of parts.
Something to be said for that!
Oh yeah, no dumber than a box of rocks "uh, I jus past that there MCSE" MCSE's!
/* INCLUDE STD DISCLAIMER
there are a lot of good MCSE's out there, but there are a fair sized group that don't know their RAM from a hole in the ground!

Lots of good and not so good responses.

Here is what I have come to believe (and this seems to hold true for any area of the US):
1) You can't outsource plumbing jobs
2) People will always need heating/AC
3) Real Estate is bought and sold everyday
4) Health care will soon(relatively speaking) be heavily regulated and salaries will be pretty much frozen
5) The local auto mechanic gets more company-paid training in one year than I have gotten in the last 5
6) Technical Sales. Somebodies gotta sell all these neat toys to the upper-management types.

Now previous posters have talked about finding something you love to do and do it. That's all fine well and good if you are young and newly in or out of school. BUT for us middle-aged, balding, slightly-overweight guys we need to be able to keep the food on the table and the roof over our family's head. Unfortunately, few, if any, new careers will let us "slide in" at the same pay-scale that we are at now.

Several previous responders have said that there are jobs outthere. Maybe, but there are a few hurdles to overcome. Automated resume readers, HR people who think that Java is referring to either the latest punk band or the coffee house down the street. Dept managers who are forced to conform job-descriptions to some corporate-lawyer's politically-correct template. "Bean Counters" who insist that there is someone out there with 15+ years of Unix admin experience who will work for $20/hr.

I hear the interviews and cries that, "I can't find any suitable candidates!" To those I say, "BULL". They are out there but either you or your company has put up so many anti-personnel fences that the good candidate's resume is probably sitting in the "administrative assistant's" paper-recycling bin even as you read this.

Yeah, there are a lot of "paper" people outthere. Folks who have spent hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars on certs and degrees and all the other things that add a bunch of initials behind your name. The folks who talk a good game but fold up after the first 24hrs of no sleep just to get a system up and which is going to require another 36hrs to restore backups and normal operation. I'm willing to bet that there are a lot more of us who don't have all those letters behind our names who would see the above situation as a "fun" thing.

Others have suggested that you start your own company. That may be a viable alternative but you'd better have a flexible part-time job to bring in money. You are gonna get a lot of "No"s before you see/hear your first "Yes" and possibly an even longer time before you see the fruits of that "yes".

I've rambled on long enough. My advice would be to look to a career or job that requires your presence. Accounting, finance, etc., as others have pointed out, are ALL subject to being moved "offshore".

My advice:

Get out of the IT business. Immediately.
Don't look back. Find something else to do.

And that goes for the rest of you, too.
Get out and stay out!

(I'm just trying to eliminate the competition.)

Clinton reduced the number of people living in poverty, lowered the unemployment, eliminated the deficit, reduced the number of people on welfare, managed to get more minorities into home ownership (the current all time high W is shouting from the rooftops is entirely due to Clinton's work in the 90s), the only presidents that had higher growth in private sector jobs in the last 70 years were Roosevelt, Truman, Johnson, and Carter, all democrats, he saved social security, and I could go on and on (as I'm sure his detractors could against him).

I'm not really sure where vanlandingham has his head, but Clinton lowered poverty rates, Bush has increased the number by 1.3 million. The number of children in poverty is at its highest level in ten years. How can you say democrats increase poverty???

From the things I've heard in reponse to my own and other liberal responses, I gather that you republicans think it's okay to trample the little guy to get on top. It's perfectly acceptable that millions of people within our boarders can't afford three meals a day, just as long as it doesn't affect you personally. How dare someone suggest the wealthy should pay their share. Those poor people choose to be poor. They could fight their way to the top if they wanted to, they just don't want to. Well, if you've never been in the situation, then you'll never understand it, I guess. Some of us can look beyond our tiny little box.

As far as Clinton not getting bin Laden when he could, well you can thank your republican dogs for attacking Clinton so harshly during that time. At the point Clinton could have done something about it, he was busy answering questions about his personal life. You act like Newt Gingrich himself wasn't sleeping with his own staff at exactly the same time. Keep it in his pants, indeed. Clinton was just being questioned about it because is was the only thing they could pin on him. This administration knows the definition of mudding up the oval office, Clinton merely stained a dress.

Oh and one last thing. Thanks dasc0917 for taking me to school. You've enlightened me and I'm forever grateful. Now I know how the democrats want to make things better. Yes, your insight has been so helpful. *roll eyes* Puhlease, I don't think your last authoritative line sums up how right you are.

You all listen to Bush, Rush, Hannity and OReilly when you should be listening to a more objective source like NPR, PBS, or heck, Jon Stewart.

How do oyu apply to Homeland security? I looked at their website and there were no openings. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place. Please advise. Thanks.

.
Four down, four to go.

Maybe we're on to something here.

What do we do? Fight like hell. Call your senators and reprsentatives and tell them if they do not oppose offshoring they will never ever get yout vote in the future. Pound them with emails and phonecalls. Be a pain in their posterior. We have to fight. Offshoring has only just begun and look at the impact. Corporations that offshore should be kicked out of the USA because in the future, when our standard of living is in the toilet, and India and other countries have prospered, many of these companies will pick up and move thier headquarters out of the USA anyway. We are quickly becoming a second rate nation. What gets me is there are always the suck ups who get on TV and radio and agree with the propaganda that offshoring is good for the economy. OK...let's outsource their job. Hire a contractor from India for one third their salary. Then let's see how these suck ups feel. The only people who understand what offshoring means are those who are suffering. Everyone else is clueless.

You forgot to mention global warming.
Clinton reduced the military. Second of all I was not hired by Clinton or Bush at my current job. I also work a second job to accelerate paying off my house. If I can work 2 jobs then some of these layabouts should be able to get one job. Your current hero John "Liveshot" Kerry has never met a tax hike he didn't like. If he gets elected then your taxes will go up. (He is one of my senators). He wants healthcare for everyone in the country. He wants you and I to pay for it. Oh yeah PBS and NPR are government funded. I am niether Dem or Rep. The surplus / deficit looks good on paper if it actually exists. Enough of this I have to get back to work now.

You might want to look at the field of Geographic Information Systems (GIS). This field constantly grows year by year. Jobs are available all over.