Company info?

I know that not all NH centers are like those decribed in this link, see all the pros as well as cons in the comments/Other Stories link

http://www.newhorizonssucks.net/

The author has some valid complaints, and states that his grievance was eventually resolved, but keeps the site to let people be informed, he allows positive as well as negative comments, so in my mind that is a very good thing.

My comment: Check them out before commiting onself, as the franchises vary around the world.

And then some of the classes I got the membership over would be canceled because of low enrollment.

While I understood that it isn't their fault if no one wants to sign up for Lotus Freelance, it is still their problem that they sold me a membership to take that and other classes.

Resolution? Allowed me to have a free year in a alternate membership group.

Yes, at work we use the Lotus SmartSuite instead of MS office. Seems like we are about the only ones in the whole world though. I took the MS classes, and then learned the Lotus applications on my own and then turned around and was the in-house instructor. A hat I don't wear as much anymore, but it is still my hat.

End of story, I was satisfied with New Horizions, as was my bud who has taken their technical classes as well.

"I was a "Club Member""

NOW WE HAVE YOU!

You [b]are[/b] "[i]one of THEM[/i]!!!

[b] [u] [i] YOU'RE A CLUB MEMBER!!! [/b] [/i] [/u] :p

couldn't resist, sorry, sorry, sorry....

Nah.

Mae/Shell/Tig - [b] OVER HERE!!! [/b]

;) ]:)

GG

This has been what I have expereinced, and my opinions are based on that expereince.

FACT ONE - Tech Pros Group is a real organization that not just a fabrication of the Internet.
In fact there are countless confirmations on the Internet from individuals who attended our camps.
This includes individuals who are working based on the training they received from Tech Pros Group
and are trying to avoid paying on their commitments.

Tech Pros Group is real. They call it an organization, but it is a school. They're
individuals who are working based on their training. However, in my experience, I was looked
upon negatively when employers saw that I was a student of Tech Pros Group. They did not
share the opinion of their training being equivalent to 5-7 years of real world experience.
I thought this was important because employers are going to being supplying my paycheck,
not Tech Pros. I removed them from my resume, and sure enough things got better.

FACT TWO - The quality of training provided by Tech Pros Group ranges from being on
par with other organizations if not better. This has even been stated by sources that
have a negative agenda with Tech Pros Group.

The training is average, not bad.

FACT THREE ? You do not have to pay Tech Pros Group until you are working,
whether through Internship or placement. This is verified by some of the negative
comments stating how they have to repay income percentage payment now that they are working.

False. For example, you have to pay them an application fee of $95 plus materials and lab access fees of $2,475 This is their
way of charging you tuition to attend their school. Another example, students who are not offered
internships will have to sign a buy-out contract. This buy-out contract forces you to start
the payment process immediately. Before your group has even had a change to pack,
1st payment is due. If you don't find employment after a few months, you are still forced to pay
them. This is not a WIN-WIN situation in my opinion.

This is what is on the BBB's website (http://www.bbb.org) when you look up company info for Tech Pros Group.

Nature of Business:
This company's business is providing computer consultation, career development, corporate enterprise network training and placement services.

We believe this company is required to be registered with the Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education as a school and post the required $25,000 bond. As of October 25, 2006, we could find no evidence of registration.

For information on registration as a vocational school, contact the Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education program. To verify registration, you can visit www.bppve.ca.gov or call (916) 574-7720.

Companies offering education are required by California law to register with the Bureau for Private Postsecondary Vocational Education (BPPVE) as a school. As part of the registration requirements, the school must provide information about its courses, instructors, students, and other information to maintain their registration. In addition, the school is required to provide specific cancellation notices to students. In this case, the notice would provide for cancellation from the fifth business day following your first class session. Failure to provide the notice may mean that your cancellation right may still exist until you are provided with the proper written cancellation notice and it expires.

Some complainants allege that they were led to believe they would receive an internship if they purchased the courses but failed to receive any. Other students complain they were due refunds for deposits and other fees, but failed to receive them after completion or withdrawal from the program. A few customers said that the instruction was not sufficient or the course was more like a self-study course.

The company generally responds by stating they perform according to their agreement, offering internships or placement assistance, and in some cases they reply stating they disclosed the nature of the offer prior to the student engaging their services. In other cases, the company contends that the student did not fulfill their agreement and are not due any refund. In a few cases, the company indicated that the customer owed them tens of thousands of dollars for fees and other services.

This company advertises internships and contract hire opportunities for LAN/WAN engineers and managers. In reality, the company is actually selling vocational learning services to prepare students for certification exams. Review of their website lists three possible ways to be placed: internship, comprehensive placement, and self-placement. The latter two options are not a direct employment offers as their advertising would suggest you to believe. The website also claims that upon placement, you pay back for the service you receive through a percentage of your future income; however, some students complain that they are required to make deposits and payments to the company before placement. For the foregoing reasons, we believe that the company?s advertising is misleading as it is not consistent with a typical offer of employment

RATING F

We strongly question the company?s reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law?s licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company?s industry is known for its fraudulent business practices.

See http://techprosgroupirvineca.googlepages.com/

I was presently accepted into the internship program and everything that I experienced so far has been above board with nothing hidden. I believe in the fact that you only get out what you put in!
I have also found that the person who said that they called 636-367-2232 to reach tech pros is sadly mistaken. All of their numbers begin with the area code 949.

Rickey Rich.
IT Specialist
DoD

If Tech Pros is such a scam how could they make it on such a ligitimate employment website such as Careerbuilders.com? And how could they be Microsoft/Cisco gold certified.
A very astonishing partnership!

I have just had a resent experience with Tech Pros Group and they promise more than they deliver.

I have yet to find any truth in any of the negative statements made regarding the Techpros Group. My experience with Techpros has been a great experience. I now have five Microsoft Certification and Cisco CCNA. The 14 hours a days hands-on labs have been ideal for me. I've been able to practise over and over again the materials that were outlined for us to cover. The exam taking was made so much more simpler by the methods useed in the handouts. I have great job possiblities and am excited regarding what the future will hold. I have personally found that what I was told prior to being accepted into the LAN/WAN program is true. I believe Techpros has kept their word to me regarding what I could expect if I did the work. I'll have no problem forfilling my end of the contract (by paying the agreed payment schedule) because I have gotten from the Techpros Group what expected.

You are a willing part of a fraud. What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. Be careful what you print because it could all come back to you later. Make Eric speak for himself for once. Tech pros group has its days numbered and you should get out now.

Hello John,

Please email me MrOliver21@netzero.net
I can't put this data on the net.

Oliver Asato

the fraud is much bigger than just what is done to the students. you are a FOOL to mess with these guys

I was there, i know you, and i know Eric, and i know what goes on. I know it all from what is said and done when no students are around. Do not evade the simple fact that this company is a fraud and always has been a fraud. The recent court cases have said as much. Please, if anyone believes this guy you are making a big mistake. Facts are facts!!!!

John,
Please contact me. I can't put my data on the net, but you might have a key that I am looking for.
Sincerely,
Oliver Asato
MrOliver21@netzero.net
http://techprosgroupirvineca.googlepages.com/

If you DO sign up and pay your 20%, you'll be actually paying ALOT MORE. Since you have to pay this out of AFTER TAX money, you have to earn 30 to 50% more than the mentioned figure.

For those of us who know mr copeland, we laugh at his attempt to sound so professional. I have worked with him, i have worked with eric choi, and i know the lies and frauds that are a part of TPG. Steve, your very presence is a lie. eric, what a mess you have made of so many lives.

how can you be so stupid? You will get what you deserve. A sucker is born every day and the day you were born was no exception. I worked there, i know the place. i feel sorry for you!!!

look at the facts, and listen???? all is coming to pass. you defend TPG, you defend fraud. The facts!!!!!!I worked there, and from the inside, you are the perfect candidate. The one we used to laugh at...

Where on you site has anyone had a Internship if there is such a thing?

you are very lucky and did most of it on your own. Tell us about the rest of your class. I work there so tell the truth!

The truth is that you were scamed and that is what they do. Anyone who says otherwise is not be trusted. You mention lies, yes all lies. I used to work there and i know the truth. The truth is FRAUD. The truth is you are a victim. They have no internships with anybody. Investigate the facts and become part of the solution. The number of individuals officially complaining is now over 140 and growing.

Intresting!!!!! So I guess your internship is going well; You are up kinda late dwelling on this thread considering you have to work in the morning. What did you say previously about not trusting people who USE alias's.HuMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM????????
Coincidence that you happened to check on this thread so soon after I posted it. That internship must be keeping you REAL busy. Just because we fell for your trap doesn't mean we are stupid. So do you sleep well at night? Wonder who will hire you next? I bet Henchmen are in high demand now. Good luck.
P.S. Why dont you let Eric do his dirty work? Money must be good huh? It will catch up soon.
BE REAL,
Mr. Blood

Municipality-urban area
a community under municipal jurisdiction
By the way this is where you work huh,There no such Place. I love how you are not even good about being full of it.
Mr. Blood

Amazing Huh? How did I know? I know your type. So I will act like this is a real person that wants to know about TPG for the rest of this thread.
Well the truth is Adam, I had all intentions of going through the internship and paying the %20 back. The reality is I didnt get to work with a engineer and get the "On the JOB" training that is needed to be sucessful in this field. The internship is FAKE just as you are.Oops sorry. If you couldnt get a clue from this thread it might not be a good career move, but you might fit in (They feed on your type). It is very unfortunate this thread wasnt booming till after my research and my check with the BBB(which was decent at the time), or I would have never attended and would be happy in my previous state (Post TPG). Now, I am working some bulljive job so my children don't starve.

So Steve.
Please let me know if this answers your question. Is the fog clearing?
So thanks for the nice hard kick in the rear.

There are important things you should know about them if you are thinking of going.....Enough said.

I already am. lol
Thank you for your support.
Mr.Blood

Here is what is clear Mr Copeland. You and TPG are a fraud and the law is coming!!! I think it's a good idea that you keep running off at the mouth like you do. Every word is being recorded so keep up the good work. The only sad part about all of the attacks, from all these people, is that they are all true.

Come on man. Do you really think any of us believe that you didnt make those post? It has you written all over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So how come there is still an advertisement for a internship when there clearly is none?
That is really the question of countless people? JUST ADMIT IT! THERE IS NO INTERNSHIP, AND THE ADAM CHARACTER YOU MADE IS A FAKE, JUST LIKE YOU. So please we just need honesty, not clarity, we are all very clear on what is going on.

Anyone who focused on my spelling and not what I stated is clearly not seeking the truth. If anyone questions who I am just send me an email at (YAHOO) and I will respond by giving you my new work email address at the city where I work.

The reason I persist in replying to these untruths is because I believe in what Techpros is doing NOW and how I benefited from the program.

I may have had some desktop experience but others canidates who were in my group (Jan) had the same and many had more experience than me.

All I will say is that I got everyting I wanted from this program including certifications including CCNA and an internship with a consulting firm doing work for the CITY of ........

What else need I say except please don't judge me on my spelling.

You are so right. I find it astonishing that anybody can defend what they do in any way. I went through the program and then worked there.
The place has a negitive undertone created from so many people realizing they made a mistake. The FRAUD is a CHOI masterpiece with Copeland as a mouth piece. Well! the end is near!!!

I believe you already are (as employed), so sober up man and stop being so obvious. You are one of two things, an employee of TGP and a lier, or you are one of those who believe the world is flat

Anyone can post a job on careerbuilder.com or hotjobs.com (where they were before) but do you notice how they aren't on Dice?

As for Microsoft/Cisco partnerships...take a look into what they require for partnership. The question that should be asked is do they employ any MCT's if not why not? The answer is because all the instructors/subject matter experts/technical experts were candidates hired right out of a class just after they got their certs. So the point is...they have about 5 minutes more experience than you do!

And if a candidate isn't quite 'technical' enough they might ask them to be a recruiter instead! So is recruiting for TPG job placement or internship LOL, just want to know the repayment plan?

Any more questions?

1. follow this link:
http://directory.microsoft.com/MPRD/PartnerProfile.aspx?RowKey=e0bcbd07-13ad-4703-a13e-e7272aac626d&LanguageDropDown=173&SearchGroup=SolutionsAndServicesRadio

If it doesn't work it tells you that they have 11 MCP's and 75 M$ among them. See #3 below to find out what it really means.

2. All it means is that they have enough certified people to attain gold partner status and they are registered...they also provide some kind of service related to M$.

3. However read what M$ has to say about it's partners...
The partners listed in the Microsoft Resource Directory are part of the Microsoft Partner Program, however Microsoft does not endorse any of the partners or their software, solutions, services and training listed on this site. Microsoft disclaims any and all liability arising out of your use of the partners, software, solutions, services and training listed on the site. All software, solutions, services and training are provided ?as is? and without warranty unless provided by the authoring partner.

That came from the M$ web site.

I guess that all the trouble TPG is now must make you feel kind of stupid now, right? Facts are TPG has lost court cases, has an F rating from the BBB, has the bppve, and OCDA on them. You know JD, fraud is fraud, even if you refuse to see it.

Eric talks about owning ICTP during his first day of lecture...ICTP was closed by the BPPVE...the BPPVE is investigating Tech Pros Group, and that came from BPPVE...connect the dots and don't forget to include the BBB's rating and justification for the rating...it's really not that hard to figure out...ask Tech Pros the hard numbers on how many actually get internships and jobs through them...but be weary of their facts! I called Jesus Jaime at the BPPVE and he told me they were under investigation, he heads the enforcement section.

J,

We need your knowledge can you email me at stoptpg@yahoo.com?

Thanks

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

you are really into redundancy in language, aren't you? My eyes glazed over just reading that first paragraph, and frankly I'm not likely to take the rest of it seriously.

Ok everyone, lets look at the facts.

1. If Steve Copeland is in such a high position in such a prominent company, would he have time to go around to blogs and opinion sites, trying to fight against naysayers and people who have negative commentary on Tech Pros Group? No.

2. If this is such a prominent company, would they really care what a bunch of people on a site has to say about them? No. Look at Microsoft, they dont go around like this, they dont care, everyone knows what they are, and what they are about in business(I mean this in a non-biased fashion, to avoid confusion).

3. Look at his typing style. Notice the lack of grammar, capitalization, etc. Is this really how an executive addresses issues in writing? No.

4. If Steve Copeland on here is the real Steve Copeland, and is who he says he is, why is it the same reply appears on other blogs and forums verbatim? If he's at such a high level in a company, can he not be intelligent enough to make argument without mindlessly replying in the same fashion? Run a search on Tech Pros Group fraud and you'll see more than enough examples from "Steve Copeland" to see my point.

5. If this isnt enough proof I dont know what is.
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13218660

This is the link to the BBB report on Tech Pros Group. Notice the rating for the company is F, for failure.to be exact, the F stands for the following: "F We strongly question the company?s reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law?s licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company?s industry is known for its fraudulent business practices". This is direct from the BBB rating explanation site,
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/RatingExplanationPage.aspx?CompanyID=13218660&sm=#RatingExperience Nothing you can say Steve can justify or explain away that.

Might as well face it folks, this company doesnt care about you or have your interests at heart. They are only after your money. As for what you said "Steve" about anonymous users on blogs and forums, maybe it didnt occur to you that people do this anonymously because they dont want to get sued in a sue-happy society by a fraud and a scammer.

I would like to say Thank to most of you for your comments in the thread. I was contacted by TPG last week and have been concidering their program over the weekend. I have had a BS in IT since Feb '04 and haven't been able to land a job in IT so far and have been considering this type of training the get certified, hoping that would improve my chances.

There was no mention of owing them a percentage of my pay in the paperwork they sent me. If any of the negative comment I've seen here are true then TPG is not for me and I thank all of you for the discussion.

Chuck Taylor

I was actually contacted by a recruiter from Tech Pro because they saw my resume online. They than sent me an application and a disclosure statement to me via email. This information was sent to me late Tuesday evening and I was told I had until Friday to decide. I called the recruiter and asked for more time to decide so I could look through the information and was told if I still wanted to be considered for the program that I needed to have my application in by Friday. I feel 3 days is not enough time to make a major decision like this and I explained this to him. If this company only wants seriously committed individuals it seems to me they would allow more time in the decision making process. You said in an earlier post not to rush into this decision but this is exaclty what this recruiter was doing to me so I guess I loss that opportunity.

YOu get better education at Cisco Academy..... they are selling you on a dream.. Steve is great pitch man I seen it first hand.... what else do you expect from salesman!!!

Stay AWAY you have been warned..

IT's same scam that ICTP was pulling they log into monster and do search on resumes.. they are praying on your dreams.. You didn't lose that opportunity you saved your money..

The recruiters get paid a commission if they get you sign up they make healthy commission of your dreams.. trust me.. you can walk in the door get into any program.. they just care about money not you..

I live in Orange County.. I have some experience with this people not this company but they spawned from previous company.. google.. ICTP Scam you will know what i'm talking about..

If you want to try some IT SKills go to your local JC and check out their IT classes you might have better luck..

my husband was laid off from a big company, and is at an age where it is difficult to find work in IT that will support our bills. The ad and response from techpros.group was hope. But once I looked over the PDF print out. I became sick. This is the most unprofessional and phoney looking come on I have yet to see. When asked what major city would be the live camp. They couldn't even tell us a city in CT. Back in the 1990 my husband and I lost our retirement money on a very similar scam in Oklahoma city. To get guaranteed training and position in a Government job. Same thing. Give money, get a crappy looking document. no reference. no exact company back ups. Just their word. DO NOT DO IT. If Microsoft is behind it then they would know about it. Just look at the grafics on the document, Fuzzy,l imperfect and why a pdf file and a fax with the info. Where is the color booklet and who are the ocmpanies they are doing the internship for? Why a copy right of 2007> Who are these people and why is there only one name on the document. What cities are they doing this in? Where are the ligament testimonies . How are they backing there claim. In todays technology, an industry like this would be highly technical and professional and be connected to Microsoft or an other company of repition. Beware.
beware of evil people taking advantage of those who are in need of hope.

After readign your document, i finally decided to google you.

i would like you to give a detailed FACTED BASED RESPONSE TO

ALL QUETSIONS AT THE FOLLOWING SITE :-

http://t906echrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=188794&messageID=2102

After reading all the comments. I'm so confused about the whole thing.

I am seeking information from Mr. Asato and all he is doing is slandering people and he shuts down the forums before anyone questioning him can respond. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE MR. ASATO???

I've seen this same question posted on TR before and many have stated that this Tech Pro Group is run by a conman and fraudster.

This is to question Mr. Asato as to why my questions were deleted from the mcpmag.com forum and the topic was promptly closed? What are you scared of with my questions? Why can't you answer them? What do you have to hide that you have to result to deleting my questions and closing the topics not allowing a curious prospect to inquire as to your motives? And the DA did no investigation because there was no evidence that Tech Pros Group had to register as a school because they are not one and no evidence that they are a scam or taking peoples money.

They owed me money that I never received. They kept delaying the payments, and they sent notices that they will have to change the payment structure to smaller payments. Then they went bankrupt. They kept stalling until it went under. Many students got screwed over big time!

Hello Jurkovich,
My name is Oliver Asato. You will see my postings about Tech Pros around the net.

I talked to one person from ICTP who stated that he worked for them, they owed him lots of money, and ICTP closed down without paying him.

Tech Pros hired a guy named Daniel who was very good at IT (ex TPG students know this guy), and screwed him out of $20,000.

I have a lot of data on TPG, but not much on ICTP. Could you email me at MrOliver21@netzero.net. I could really use your data.

I have a court case coming up against TPG in the next few weeks. My buddy and I beat them in court in late August 2007. Now we need to trounce them in the appeals trial.

Sincerely,
Oliver Asato

Hi Darrell,
I just got an email from some poor guy who is paying TPG over $12,000 and what did he get out of it? Only certs which are worthless unless you really know IT.

Last week I got an email from a guy who was accepted after something like a 30 minute phone interview and he had to accept the "special offer" in a few days or he would miss out. TPG will accept almost anyone. Anyone reading this can prove it to themselves - give TPG a call and state that you are interested in their service and they will jump at you with a "must buy now" offer. Give BS credentials (poor ones) and say you have lots of $$ and see what happens.

Steve Copeland (an exec at TPG) would like to see this blog close down so that others will not know what really occurs.

Today I got contacted by some guy who TPG is sending to a collection agency. The guy never got what he thought he was enrolling for. Most people who do the TPG training refuse to pay per CA Education Code 94877 which does apply to TPG no matter what they say.

Be honest Darell Payne, you know very well that TPG is highly misleading in their advertising.

Sincerely,
Oliver Asato
MrOliver21@netzero.net

Just went to check out the website, which hasnt changed (so far for the business plan being changed), but I noticed there was Checkpoint and Citrix on their website which they dont teach you anything about.
Darrell (really Steve Copeland) was right when he said "My suggestion to anyone who is interested is to check it out for yourself make the call to the company, go to the BBB, weight your options, and make an informed, educated decision about what is best for you and your situation."
With the exception of making a call to the company (unless you want hours of crap feed to you) This is the best advice he has.
Poor Horse,
Drew

Often the easiest way to a successful
outcome to any goal always has a
requirement for effort, the short cut
method will always leave you short of
attaining your objective. Also
all "Nigerian Bank Schemes " Require
someone who is silly enough to not see
something as being too good to be true.

Some of the posting on this forum is quite
possibly very suspicious, coming from often
new and obscure persons. I have no problem
with the opinions of posters who have
filled out profiles, some I agree with,
some I do not, but they back their opinions
up with the conviction of identifying
themselves and not hiding behind a blank
profile. I challenge those that have strong
opinions to quit hiding, have the guts to
fill in your profile for us all to see. I
admit to being slack myself in this area so
I have gone and filled out my profile, I
hope it may be of assistance in deciding
how much of what I say may be a load of old
garbage

As a newly certified CCNA I am job hunting and I found TPG on Career Builder - seemed like a dream come true, exactly what I hoped to find but caution prevailed and I wound up here. They have a Cisco Premier Partner logo - I find it disconcerting that these people claim that in 3-4 months you will have 12 certifications and Cisco with it's hard ass rep is sitting still for it - should I begin to question my Certification? I took all 4 semesters of the CCNA course and will graduate with an Associates in December and I worked my tail off to do it - I am taking several MCSE courses right now and cannot believe anyone could pass and comprehend the material in such a short time. I am heading to the Cisco forums now to ask what the hell does a Cisco Premium Partner do simply pay a fee?

If this is something they let stand I will begin to think my two years of study and hard work were a joke and my cert completely meaningless.

By the way here is a list from the PDF from TPG

TECHNICAL CERTIFICATIONS YOU WILL ACQUIRE THROUGH THE TRAINING
Certified LAN/WAN Engineer (CLWE)
Cisco Certified Security Professional (CCSP)
Cisco Certified Voice Professional (CCVP)
Cisco Certified Network Professional (CCNP)
Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA)
Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA)
Certified Microsoft Network Administrator (CMNA)
Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP)
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) - Security
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) - Messaging
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE )
Microsoft Certified Systems Admin (MCSA) - Messaging

I know several MCSEs and not one had the cert in less than a year and most took about 18 months - I will say I could have passed my Cert in May but decided to take it slow since I wouldn't be graduating until now.

I ask again have I been swindled by Cisco?

This is Steve Copeland. As you may already know, I am the VP of Business Relations at Tech Pros Group and also a member of Tech Republic since 1999. As an executive at Tech Pros Group, I do not usually respond to discussion postings on the Internet regarding Tech Pros Group. This is due to the fact that Tech Pros Group did not believe in responding to discussions between fellow professionals in information technology. In fact the last time a response was made by me was approximately 6 months ago relating to an accusation that I post using aliases. Please see my response dated March 2007.

We feel that forums are a good venue to conduct discussions regarding matters of importance to professionals in the information technology industry. Whether they are discussions regarding new technologies, changes/shifts in the direction of the IT industry, opinions on standards and policies that relate to IT or services/products offered by a specific company such as Tech Pros Group that may be of interest to an IT professional.

These discussions between fellow professionals can especially be insightful to individuals who are new to the industry, technology or service and are seeking the input of others before making an important decision.

The positive impact of these discussions is based on the assumption that all parties involved are fair-minded and factual with a desire to seek the truth. When one examines this discussion thread, there are a number of positive examples of fair minded statements. Unfortunately these positive examples are interspersed with a large number of posts made by individuals who have no desire for the truth. What they desire is to push their negative agenda regarding Tech Pros Group. What makes the situation worse is when anyone provides a fair counterpoint to their statement, they individuals respond with defamation, ridicule or outright accusations of wrongdoing.

To help ensure that this forum continues to focus on facts and fair minded statements, Tech Pros Group will take a more proactive approach to responding. The following are my responses to some of the allegations. Let me apologize for the lengthiness of the response. Unfortunately, there were a number of allegations that needed to be responded to and I wanted to ensure that they were responded to in a clear and concise manner.

CLARIFICATION OF ALLEGATIONS BY INDIVIDUALS ON THIS POST
I am writing this response to clarify some allegations regarding Tech Pros Group and our services:

1. DOES TECH PROS GROUP ACCEPT ANYONE FOR THE LAN/WAN ENGINEER INTERNSHIP? ? Tech Pros Group always had and continues to have a strong policy for consideration for the LAN/WAN engineer internship program. This policy is described in disclosure documents to prospective candidates interested in our service. Unfortunately, the mistake Tech Pros Group previously made was that our determination for a candidate?s acceptance was primarily based on the candidate?s verbal statements and not on any background check conducted by Tech Pros Group. Through the past two years, we?ve learned that many individuals exaggerated their qualifications or just have an unrealistically high view of their qualifications. This resulted in Tech Pros Group accepting candidates who were not qualified. Tech Pros Group has learned from our past mistakes and now has a two stage process service for consideration into the LAN/WAN engineer internship. Acceptance into stage 1 is relatively easy. As long as you meet the basic qualifications and there are spots available, you will be accepted. We do this because the 1st stage is actually a long two way interview process. During stage 1, all candidates have the opportunity to ?check us out? and Tech Pros Group has the opportunity to verify each candidate?s ability. Candidates accepted for stage 2 will go through a thorough background check process including criminal, education, professional and credit. Less than 25% of the candidates in stage 1 are accepted for stage 2. The best part about this process is that candidates who are not accepted are able to part ways with Tech Pros Group with no additional obligations. Click here to see LAN/WAN engineer disclosure document for full details http://www.techprosgroup.com/Forms/LANWAN_Engineer_Internship_Disclosure.pdf
2. IS TECH PROS GROUP BEING INVESTIGATED FOR FRAUD BY THE DA OFFICE? - This statement was initially made over 1 year ago by a number of individuals. In fact, as of 6 months ago, there were even multiple statements stating that Tech Pros Group is being closed down for fraud. Tech Pros Group takes these allegations seriously and initiated communication with the District Attorney?s office at the time of the initial allegations. The DA confirmed that there were no investigations and even expressed empathy for Tech Pros Group for the defamation that we are receiving.
3. ARE THERE LAWSUITS AGAINST TECH PROS GROUP? ? As stated by Mr. Oliver Asato and his associates in this discussion group, Tech Pros Group has engaged in lawsuits in court with 4 individuals who were part of the old LAN/WAN engineer internship service. As of today, 3 lawsuits have been resolved in favor of Tech Pros Group, a fourth lawsuit is currently in superior court and is projected to be resolved by the end of this year. One of the lawsuits that Tech Pros Group won is with Mr. Oliver Asato. Interestingly, Mr. Asato conveniently forgets to mention this fact. Furthermore, the other 3 lawsuits that were either won in our favor or in superior court were coordinated by Mr. Asato based on a collection of erroneous information. Mr. Asato attended the court hearing in each of these lawsuits and essentially represented these individuals. Mr. Asato regularly sends inflammatory and defaming e-mails to past candidates of Tech Pros Group encouraging them to sue Tech Pros Group. Mr. Asato even has a website that encourages anyone and everyone to sue Tech Pros Group and provides a step by step process for initiating a lawsuit. In spite of this, only 4 lawsuits have occurred as shown above with 3 judged in favor of Tech Pros Group and the 4th lawsuit currently in superior court. Please note that Tech Pros Group has serviced over 1,000 individuals. The 4 lawsuits represent less than 1% of the candidates who experienced our service. All 4 lawsuits were initiated by candidates who received the service in 2006 prior to the 2 stage screening process as described above.

WHY ARE SOME INDIVIDUALS DEFAMING TECH PROS GROUP SO PASSIONATELY?
This would be a question I would ask. To say that these individuals are all bad and are just out to get Tech Pros Group would be as accusatory as these individuals claiming that Tech Pros Group is a fraud. As in any situation, there has to be a logical motive to most individual?s actions. The following may provide some insight into these actions:

1. INADEQUATE QUALIFICATION PROCESS FOR ACCEPTANCE ? As stated previously, over 50% of the candidates who were accepted in 2006 did not belong in the LAN/WAN engineer internship service. This represents almost 200 individuals. Upon realizing this Tech Pros Group modified its services to include a direct placement assistance option to accommodate these individuals. Using this alternative service a majority of the candidates found employment in information technology in a position that paid on average 25% more than they received prior to receiving our service.
2. AVOIDANCE OF FINANCIAL OBLIGATION ? Candidates who found employment had a financial obligation to Tech Pros Group that ranged from $10,000 to over $25,000. The more you benefited from this service the more you owed Tech Pros Group. This is due to the fact that our fees were tied to a percentage of your future income. As stated above, the average individual received a pay increase of approximately 25%. The irony of this situation is that Tech Pros Group has had the most difficulty in collecting from individuals who received the most benefit due to the fact that they owed Tech Pros Group the most money. Their justifications for not paying, ranges from inadequate training, inadequate placement assistance, did not receive internship and invalid contract due to not being an authorized school to not working in information technology. Aside from contract validity, every other point can be fairly argued by any individual. In fact, one can make a compelling argument that most colleges, universities and tech schools are inadequate. The problem with this argument is that Tech Pros Group?s contractual relationship with these past individuals was specific to placement. If you are working, you owe Tech Pros Group. Even if every one of those arguments is true, does it really matter if the individual is working in information technology? Especially if prior to our service the individual either had no prior experience in IT, or is an IT professional who has been out of work for over 6 months or is a working individual who has received a pay increase of over 20%. Most organizations and individuals would consider that as success. The majority of the individuals making these claims fall into one or more of the above mentioned success categories. Due to a passive collection policy, over 30% of working clients from 2006 have not paid their obligations to Tech Pros Group. PLEASE NOTE: As of June 2007, candidates who apply and successfully complete the LAN/WAN engineer internship ARE NOT obligated to pay a percentage of their future income. Their obligation is complete with the successful completion of the 1 year internship.
3. COORDINATED GROUP ACTION AGAINST TECH PROS GROUP ? A small number of individuals who are avoiding their obligations from 2006 has grouped together and has taken slanderous and defaming actions between 2006 and the first half of 2007. This included coordinated e-mail campaigns toward past clients, calls to the local District Attorney?s office, calls/emails to federal/state agencies, calls/ to organizations such as the BBB and included discussion forums such as the one on Tech Republic, Cert Cities and Redmond Magazine. To these individuals credit, they did an effective job. During this same period Tech Pros Group had to make a decision. Do we respond to the smear campaign or focus on improving our services to eliminate future problems? Unfortunately, we could not do both due to our limited resources. Tech Pros Group made the choice to improve our services to eliminate future problems and have spent the past year doing just that. As of October 2007, we are proud to say that the majority of the issues that created this situation have been addressed. Due to the positive changes we have continued to grow in spite of this smear campaign. In fact, the amount of clients we handle each month increased from approximately 30 candidates during the month of October 2006 to over 200 candidates during the month of October 2007. Now that we have addressed these issues, Tech Pros Group plans to focus its efforts on addressing both the collections issues from 2006 and addressing our image on the internet to ensure that it accurately matches who we are today.

DISCUSSION SUMMARY
Discussion forums such as this on Tech Republic can be an information source to IT professionals needing 3rd party information prior to making a serious decision. This statement is true as long as all parties are fair minded, focused on facts and not opinions and are respectful of fellow IT professionals even if their statements are opposite. Tech Pros Group supports all individuals including Mr. Oliver Asato, Drewblood80 and anyone else who may have a negative opinion of Tech Pros Group to continue posting. We only ask is that if you truly care about your fellow IT professional as you claim you do, focus on facts that are relevant today and stop promoting false, misleading or outdated information. It is very obvious to any informed person (person who is aware of the many recent improvements) reading your comments that you either are not up to date on the many positive changes at Tech Pros Group or are just choosing to ignore and hide them with false statements. Please allow this forum to truly be an OPEN FORUM FOCUSING ON FACTS and not accusations.

We encourage your support on this and as part of giving our support on this matter, we offer an open invitation to every interested individual to visit us in Irvine, California and physically see for yourself what is true and false. This includes Mr. Asato and his associates. To arrange a meeting, please feel free to call or e-mail me at the contact information in my profile.

Take Care and Best Wishes

Steve Copeland
VP of Business Relations

This is Steve Copeland. As you may already know, I am the VP of Business Relations at Tech Pros Group and also a member of Tech Republic since 1999. As an executive at Tech Pros Group, I do not usually respond to discussion postings on the Internet regarding Tech Pros Group. This is due to the fact that Tech Pros Group did not believe in responding to discussions between fellow professionals in information technology. In fact the last time a response was made by me was approximately 6 months ago relating to an accusation that I post using aliases. Please see my response dated March 2007.

We feel that forums are a good venue to conduct discussions regarding matters of importance to professionals in the information technology industry. Whether they are discussions regarding new technologies, changes/shifts in the direction of the IT industry, opinions on standards and policies that relate to IT or services/products offered by a specific company such as Tech Pros Group that may be of interest to an IT professional.

These discussions between fellow professionals can especially be insightful to individuals who are new to the industry, technology or service and are seeking the input of others before making an important decision.

The positive impact of these discussions is based on the assumption that all parties involved are fair-minded and factual with a desire to seek the truth. When one examines this discussion thread, there are a number of positive examples of fair minded statements. Unfortunately these positive examples are interspersed with a large number of posts made by individuals who have no desire for the truth. What they desire is to push their negative agenda regarding Tech Pros Group. What makes the situation worse is when anyone provides a fair counterpoint to their statement, they individuals respond with defamation, ridicule or outright accusations of wrongdoing.

To help ensure that this forum continues to focus on facts and fair minded statements, Tech Pros Group will take a more proactive approach to responding. The following are my responses to some of the allegations. Let me apologize for the lengthiness of the response. Unfortunately, there were a number of allegations that needed to be responded to and I wanted to ensure that they were responded to in a clear and concise manner.

CLARIFICATION OF ALLEGATIONS BY INDIVIDUALS ON THIS POST
I am writing this response to clarify some allegations regarding myself, Tech Pros Group and our services:

1. DOES TECH PROS GROUP ACCEPT ANYONE FOR THE LAN/WAN ENGINEER INTERNSHIP? ? Tech Pros Group always had and continues to have a strong policy for consideration for the LAN/WAN engineer internship program. This policy is described in disclosure documents to prospective candidates interested in our service. Unfortunately, the mistake Tech Pros Group previously made was that our determination for a candidate?s acceptance was primarily based on the candidate?s verbal statements and not on any background check conducted by Tech Pros Group. Through the past two years, we?ve learned that many individuals exaggerated their qualifications or just have an unrealistically high view of their qualifications. This resulted in Tech Pros Group accepting candidates who were not qualified. Tech Pros Group has learned from our past mistakes and now has a two stage process service for consideration into the LAN/WAN engineer internship. Acceptance into stage 1 is relatively easy. As long as you meet the basic qualifications and there are spots available, you will be accepted. We do this because the 1st stage is actually a long two way interview process. During stage 1, all candidates have the opportunity to ?check us out? and Tech Pros Group has the opportunity to verify each candidate?s ability. Candidates accepted for stage 2 will go through a thorough background check process including criminal, education, professional and credit. Less than 25% of the candidates in stage 1 are accepted for stage 2. The best part about this process is that candidates who are not accepted are able to part ways with Tech Pros Group with no additional obligations. Click here to see LAN/WAN engineer disclosure document for full details http://www.techprosgroup.com/Forms/LANWAN_Engineer_Internship_Disclosure.pdf
2. IS TECH PROS GROUP BEING INVESTIGATED FOR FRAUD BY THE DA OFFICE? - This statement was initially made over 1 year ago by a number of individuals. In fact, as of 6 months ago, there were even multiple statements stating that Tech Pros Group is being closed down for fraud. Tech Pros Group takes these allegations seriously and initiated communication with the District Attorney?s office at the time of the initial allegations. The DA confirmed that there were no investigations and even expressed empathy for Tech Pros Group for the defamation that we are receiving.
3. ARE THERE LAWSUITS AGAINST TECH PROS GROUP? ? As stated by Mr. Oliver Asato and his associates in this discussion group, Tech Pros Group has engaged in lawsuits in court with 4 individuals who were part of the old LAN/WAN engineer internship service. As of today, 3 lawsuits have been resolved in favor of Tech Pros Group, a fourth lawsuit is currently in superior court and is projected to be resolved by the end of this year. One of the lawsuits that Tech Pros Group won is with Mr. Oliver Asato. Interestingly, Mr. Asato conveniently forgets to mention this fact. Furthermore, the other 3 lawsuits that were either won in our favor or in superior court were coordinated by Mr. Asato based on a collection of erroneous information. Mr. Asato attended the court hearing in each of these lawsuits and essentially represented these individuals. Mr. Asato regularly sends inflammatory and defaming e-mails to past candidates of Tech Pros Group encouraging them to sue Tech Pros Group. Mr. Asato even has a website that encourages anyone and everyone to sue Tech Pros Group and provides a step by step process for initiating a lawsuit. In spite of this, only 4 lawsuits have occurred as shown above with 3 judged in favor of Tech Pros Group and the 4th lawsuit currently in superior court. Please note that Tech Pros Group has serviced over 1,000 individuals. The 4 lawsuits represent less than 1% of the candidates who experienced our service. All 4 lawsuits were initiated by candidates who received the service in 2006 prior to the 2 stage screening process as described above.

WHY ARE SOME INDIVIDUALS DEFAMING TECH PROS GROUP SO PASSIONATELY?
This would be a question I would ask. To say that these individuals are all bad and are just out to get Tech Pros Group would be as accusatory as these individuals claiming that Tech Pros Group is a fraud. As in any situation, there has to be a logical motive to most individual?s actions. The following may provide some insight into these actions:

1. INADEQUATE QUALIFICATION PROCESS FOR ACCEPTANCE ? As stated previously, over 50% of the candidates who were accepted in 2006 did not belong in the LAN/WAN engineer internship service. This represents almost 200 individuals. Upon realizing this Tech Pros Group modified its services to include a direct placement assistance option to accommodate these individuals. Using this alternative service a majority of the candidates found employment in information technology in a position that paid on average 25% more than they received prior to receiving our service.
2. AVOIDANCE OF FINANCIAL OBLIGATION ? Candidates who found employment had a financial obligation to Tech Pros Group that ranged from $10,000 to over $25,000. The more you benefited from this service the more you owed Tech Pros Group. This is due to the fact that our fees were tied to a percentage of your future income. As stated above, the average individual received a pay increase of approximately 25%. The irony of this situation is that Tech Pros Group has had the most difficulty in collecting from individuals who received the most benefit due to the fact that they owed Tech Pros Group the most money. Their justifications for not paying, ranges from inadequate training, inadequate placement assistance, did not receive internship and invalid contract due to not being an authorized school to not working in information technology. Aside from contract validity, every other point can be fairly argued by any individual. In fact, one can make a compelling argument that most colleges, universities and tech schools are inadequate. The problem with this argument is that Tech Pros Group?s contractual relationship with these past individuals was specific to placement. If you are working, you owe Tech Pros Group. Even if every one of those arguments is true, does it really matter if the individual is working in information technology? Especially if prior to our service the individual either had no prior experience in IT, or is an IT professional who has been out of work for over 6 months or is a working individual who has received a pay increase of over 20%. Most organizations and individuals would consider that as success. The majority of the individuals making these claims fall into one or more of the above mentioned success categories. Due to a passive collection policy, over 30% of working clients from 2006 have not paid their obligations to Tech Pros Group. PLEASE NOTE: As of June 2007, candidates who apply and successfully complete the LAN/WAN engineer internship ARE NOT obligated to pay a percentage of their future income. Their obligation is complete with the successful completion of the 1 year internship.
3. COORDINATED GROUP ACTION AGAINST TECH PROS GROUP ? A small number of individuals who are avoiding their obligations from 2006 has grouped together and has taken slanderous and defaming actions between 2006 and the first half of 2007. This included coordinated e-mail campaigns toward past clients, calls to the local District Attorney?s office, calls/emails to federal/state agencies, calls/ to organizations such as the BBB and included discussion forums such as the one on Tech Republic, Cert Cities and Redmond Magazine. To these individuals credit, they did an effective job. During this same period Tech Pros Group had to make a decision. Do we respond to the smear campaign or focus on improving our services to eliminate future problems? Unfortunately, we could not do both due to our limited resources. Tech Pros Group made the choice to improve our services to eliminate future problems and have spent the past year doing just that. As of October 2007, we are proud to say that the majority of the issues that created this situation have been addressed. Due to the positive changes we have continued to grow in spite of this smear campaign. In fact, the amount of clients we handle each month increased from approximately 30 candidates during the month of October 2006 to over 200 candidates during the month of October 2007. Now that we have addressed these issues, Tech Pros Group plans to focus its efforts on addressing both the collections issues from 2006 and addressing our image on the internet to ensure that it accurately matches who we are today.

DISCUSSION SUMMARY
Discussion forums such as this on Tech Republic can be an information source to IT professionals needing 3rd party information prior to making a serious decision. This statement is true as long as all parties are fair minded, focused on facts and not opinions and are respectful of fellow IT professionals even if their statements are opposite. Tech Pros Group supports all individuals including Mr. Oliver Asato, Drewblood80 and anyone else who may have a negative opinion of Tech Pros Group to continue posting. We only ask is that if you truly care about your fellow IT professional as you claim you do, focus on facts that are relevant today and stop promoting false, misleading or outdated information. It is very obvious to any informed person (person who is aware of the many recent improvements) reading your comments that you either are not up to date on the many positive changes at Tech Pros Group or are just choosing to ignore and hide them with false statements. Please allow this forum to truly be an OPEN FORUM FOCUSING ON FACTS and not accusations.

We encourage your support on this and as part of giving our support on this matter, we offer an open invitation to every interested individual to visit us in Irvine, California and physically see for yourself what is true and false. This includes Mr. Asato and his associates. To arrange a meeting, please feel free to call or e-mail me at the contact information in my profile.

Take Care and Best Wishes

Steve Copeland
VP of Business Relations

As IT pros we've generally been wary of 'creative' education arrangements. However public institutions as you mentioned often do not teach the subjects / knowhow needed by industry, or with the intensity needed to become useful to companies quickly. I remember chatting with unemployed friend, telling them they could learn what they wanted but would be 4 or 8 hours a week for 18 weeks, when they could take a 5 day class instead.

I recall just a few years ago that Pasadena City College was still teaching a computer curriculum that consisted of Fortran, Cobol. To their credit, many other institutions do a pretty good job of maintaining relevance.

Bootcamps have that intensity but are dependent on the right curriculum / teachers. And very expensive. We were also wondering since internships are sometimes linked with immigration scams / fraud.

Changes to your program sound great. You've eliminated the main source of complaints the one year later collections and source of students not complying with your terms.

Many here have questioned both sides: you shouldn't have signed the agreement if you...

or: enuf people are complaining there must be some truth...

I mostly pointed out that 25% after taxes is even more BEFORE taxes, and ALOT of money, which you indicate you've discontinued.

In the end, under your new system, if you give students perceived value and treat them well you should do fine without complaints.

It sounds like you have them do real projects as interns. In the end, if you are what you say you are, you have setup a new paradigm for training. Or perhaps re-instated an old one of apprentices. Triumph of free markets that you have the freedom to do this, make money and provide a valuable service.

IT is unique in that it requires both on-the-job training and outside the job learning ahead of time and on your own time to some extent due to constant change and new technologies.

I'm not a LAN/WAN guy, am more into development, tho I have dabbled years and years ago in PCs for a small while and keep up somewhat with network security issues. So I'm not vaguely interested in signing up for your program.

However I do live extremely close by in Santa Ana / NB area, if you'd like I'd be happy to drop by some time if you'd be willing to give me a short tour. I'd post what I find in this forum. Let me know via peer mail if you're up to this.

... I followed your link to Cisco learning partners - went through all the steps - selecting USA - California - Irvine and I can't believe it - I really can't because right there on the Cisco website - I mean right there on the page - TechProGroup - you won't believe it ... ready... wait for it... this is gonna blow your mind - TechProGroup is NOT listed - gosh what a surprise - I am stunned - how could this be - how, how, how - Could it be because you are a LIAR Steve, hmmm could that be it? Or maybe those B*st*rds at Cisco just want to make you look bad?

I don't know if this will link and bring up the page but here it is anyway

http://tools.cisco.com/E-Learning-IT/LPCM/pub_jsp/lplist/LpcmLPListDetails.jsp

I like the way 'tools' starts the link cause that is what you are Steve a complete and total tool.

Thanks for the helpful link Steve - really seem to clear everything right up.

I went to your company site (http://www.techprosgroup.com/main.php)and viewed the phoney Cisco endorsement image you guys display with the Cisco Partner url of "http://tools.cisco.com/wwchannels/locatr/partnerdetail.do?country=us&begeoid=315057&siteid=1261307", then I plugged that url into a browser and Cisco says..."The Page You Have Requested Is Not Available".
You're a SCAM!!!!

Dear IT-Guy 92104

The following is a link to my post clarifying our partnership status with Cisco and Microsoft
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=188794&messageID=2357779

In addition, shown below are additional posts that I have made that may give you more insight into our company and our services

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=188794&messageID=2036944

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=188794&messageID=2355985

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=188794&messageID=2356048

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=188794&messageID=2102093