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Compensation for overtime

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by fdsudds

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I was wondering if anyone out that gets compensation for working overtime. Just about every place I have worked that I was "salary" and I worked overtime, I was given time off later to make up for it. Not saying that for ever hour I worked over I would get sometime off, but say I worked 5 or 6 hours over, my boss would give me a 1/2 day off some other time when I wanted it.
The place I work at now, does not do this and basically do not compensate us at all. They just figure that it's part of our job.
What do you think? and do you get any compensation for working over?
I would love to hear your responses on this issue.

thanks,
Frank

45 replies

by mjd420nova

Salaried non-exempt are covered by most state
laws and must be PAID. Exempt are at discrection
of the employer and need not be paid or compensated. Hope you fall in the first catagory.

by noyoki

I was told by the previous person that worked in my position, that anyone with the word "Manager" or higher in their title don't qualify for O/T (possibly she meant just not time and a half.)

A friend had said once, that a lot of "us" (meaning IT ppl) still *have* jobs because we don't claim the O/T. Our HR manager is paranoid though, that if she doesn't pay me that I'm going to turn around and sue the company later so I basically have to watch every damn thing I say and who I say it to. And I work in a law firm!! Lol.

by cactus pete

In my law firm IT is Non-exempt. Well, most of us are. There appears to be a contemplation by the officers of the firm to change this.

Of course, we would demand to be given higher base compensation then.

There are two thoughts: 1, people who are "salary" and exempt try their damnedest to not work overtime. Even when it would benefit the firm. Where 2, people who are non-exempt abuse it by milking the overtime, instead of getting the work done in normal hours.

Of course, those are just the bad apples. Many salaried personnel will work as long as necessary, but they might complain about not being compensated enough. And many hourly workers will try to not work past 5...

I think management can, if it wants to, work it either way and get the best results for the firm.

by dr dij

of at least one or more people to be a 'manager' and be exempt from OT reqts.

by antuck

I worked for a place and was on salary. I also had a managers title and it was automaticly figured you would stay over no matter what. They would compensate by giving you time off but it never added up to the time you put in.

If I'm ever faced with a salary position again, I will make sure I know what compensation is given for overtime. But it does seem that when on a salary position, it is always said that overtime is part of what they are paying you in a salary. That is way I hate salary positions.

by ben "iron" damper

I too am salaried but my OT pay is basically how yours use to be. Meaning after some OT was put in here and there I get a half day off without using my vacation time. But again the "free time" off never measures up to the total amount of OT put in. But I guess that's just life in I.T. and being salaried as opposed to hourly.

by fdsudds

I wouldn't mind if they gave us some comp time. We don't get any and they even complain when you need to leave early for the doctor or dentist.
I don't expect to get compensated for every hour I work over, but when we stay from 8am to after midnight, I would appreciate some time off..

by ben "iron" damper

I agree with you a 110%! You should get at least SOME comp time or the very least they shouldn't complain when you have to leave a few minutes early for an appointment. They sound overly strict to me.

by dr dij

unless you are in the middle of an emergency. constant 'emergencies' don't count, means they need to hire more people.

by zaferus

Yeah, Peter... what's happening. I'm going to have to go and ask you to come in on ... Saturday. Ok? Yeah. That would be great.

Oh, and, um, I'm also going to have to ask you to also come in on Sunday. Ok? Great. Thanks Peter.

Great movie, I loved it.

"I wouldn't say I'm exactly "missing" work, if you know what I mean, Bob."

But seriously: in environments like this if you just walk out after you've been asked to work overtime you're likely to be relieved of your paycheck after a few reprimands. I always prefer to leave on my terms, not theirs.

by jamesrl

In my environment, I ask them to do overtime(and pay them for it). Most of my team are pretty self managing - they will do as much OT as they need to.

I don't know if I would be able to fire someone for refusing overtime - depends on the job description - some have requirements regarding ability to do overtime, some don't.

James

by noyoki

Hear hear... I've been doing just that for the past 3 weeks with the completely unrelated issues that sprang up in the midst of rolling out new computers... While they can't really complain if I leave early for an appt (because the attorneys do it all the time), they don't do extra comp time.

by tony hopkinson

is generally included in your salary. However it's meant to be, can you come on Wednesday and keep an eye on this, or stop back late next Friday and kick something off. If you are doing an extra x hours a week regularly without remuneration, your employer is taking the p1ss. Course in today's market you might have to sup it down and thank them. If you don't though, don't.

I'm an obnoxious git myself, my attitude has always been, you ain't paying, I ain't working. Got to be prepared for both coming true though.

by m_a_r_k

Tony is right. It works both ways. Sometimes you work a lot of extra hours and other times you have some down time and you can coast for a while. (Though it seems like there is more busy time than coast time.) I've never been compensated for overtime in any salaried job. As a salaried employee you expect to be able to take an hour or two during the day occasionally for personal business and not have your pay docked.

by fdsudds

niether things you said happen here.. we don't have "down time"... we are always busy ..
and we get flack when we need to leave or come in early...

by jamesrl

I am exempt, so don't get any. I average a 50 hour week.

My staff, some of whom make about the same base salary as me, can and do charge overtime. I ask to be informed if its going to exceed 10 hours a week. We hold to the law of the land, which is non-managers charge overtime.

I encourage people to take it in $$ not comp time, as people carry big comp time balances, don't use it, and it becomes a timekeeping hassle. But I am also flexible about doctor's appts etc. In turn often I won't get dinged for an hour here or there. I should note I have senior experienced staff who are mostly on projects.

James

by jkameleon

I work for the same company for the last 10 years, or so.

Before dot com crash, nobody cared, everybody come & went as necessary, but job was done anyway- more or less.

After Y2K/dot com crash, they insisted for a while that I work unpaid overtime. First, they appealed to my geek enthusiasm. I said I don't have any. Then, they threated with demotion. I said OK, I prefer my own time than the money they are paying to me. Then they threated they'll fire me. I said OK, I certainly won't bewail the loss of that job. Only then they paid my overtime, each and every minute of it.

Management changed recently. Current politics is no overtime at all, and I like it.

by zaferus

In IT especially, when there is no OT pay my experience is that these companies treat their employees as commodity items, not assets.

As long as the ever increasing workload gets done and it isn't reflected on the bottom line they don't want to have to care if these employees have no home life, no family time, grey early, are stressed and tired, and are burning out. If you can't do the job they require they will "simply hire someone else".

For some reason there are employees I know who are miserable at their companies but like a beaten dog keep crawling along. I worked in a place like this, and saw how toxic it was.

I now work for a place where I bank my OT and get paid out once it gets to over a certain time. At least when I burn the midnight oil I know a nice extra paycheck will be coming.

We're busy, but at least the OT costs are reflected on the bottom line. And it's not surprising that companies treat your time as valuable when they are paying for all of it.

No OT is a lose-lose toxic situation, get out and live a normal life!

by jkameleon

> No OT is a lose-lose toxic situation, get out and live a normal life!

Indeed.

If you land such "toxic" (very appropriate word) job, there are only two possible outcomes:

1) You get fired the very moment you say "no", and happily go job hunting.

2) You get fired a couple of years later, when you are no longer able to handle the workload due to burnout or health problems. Finding and keeping another job won't be easy for you.

by jck

Yeah, I worked for a small company once where I averaged 56 hours a week for the year I was there. It was my first job out of college and I trudged on because I wanted to try and work my way up.

After I was the first programmer to get my part of the financial system done (payroll and budget) and got no paid time off, I made tracks out of there.

Where I am now, I am salary and get no overtime. But, my boss is really flexible with time and I usually work 45-50 hours a week and don't have to keep my nose to the grindstone every second I'm here.

Plus if I need 2 hours to go donate plasma or have work done on my house, he doesn't make me take leave because he knows I'm working that little extra all the time to make sure projects get out on schedule and things run smoothly.

by bfilmfan

I have 2 types of employees:

Hourly, who is paid normal pay for up to 40 hours, time-and-a-half for over time and double-time on holidays (overtime added on if that is applicable also). So if a holiday e.g. Christmas is on a Sunday and they worked over 40, they would be earning 3.5 times regular pay.

Exempt, who don't get OT. They do get comp time. It is reported on the time sheet and they are compensated at some later time on an hour for hour basis and based on can they take the time off. So if an exempt employee has 40 comp hours booked and wants to take a week off and I can afford to have them gone (no nuclear fires to stomp out or major projects being implemented), I tell them to make sure to get me at least a postcard and to un-heinie my facility.

Yah, I am a rare boss that grew up in the trenches and treat my people like they are professionals and will go to bat for them. I like to think they will line up with sword and shields and take on the barbarian hordes of the unwashed IT user when I ask also.

by fdsudds

can I come work for you.. hahahaa..
Wish there was more like you..
You treat your workers good and they treat you good.. that's how it works...

by dmambo

Typically, most managers of exempt staff are a little flexible with time off, but maintaing time sheets and letting them "bank" the OT is pretty nice. I don't usually see any direct benefits for OT, but I'll sometimes duck out in the summer to the driving range for an hour and my boss is fine with it. I put in a lot more time than I get back.

BTW, as usual BFilm - love the phraseology, :) but "un-heinie my facility" WTFIT?

by bfilmfan

"Un-heinie" comes from a phrase I heard used for years in armor units in getting out of them. I assume it was because you got off your rump to do something else.

by jck

the law in this country allows business to legally abuse their employees.

It's just like minimum wage here. It's supposed to be applicable to all hourly workers, but waitstaff can be paid $2 per hour because they get gratuities.

Personally, I think salary positions should be abolished and everyone made to punch a clock. It would make accountability much higher and reduce labor fraud at all levels.

by jck

making sure that business is not allowed to abuse their workforce by giving set pay for variable amounts (and most often over-extended hours) of work is communist, then I must be communist to someone as material and capitalistic as you.

Kam sa ham ni da :)

by tony hopkinson

Non fuedalist would be a more correct description.
Paying your workforce the absolute minmum and or taking the urine out of them does not make sense from a business point of view after all.

Unless of you are into enhancing shareholder value and then burgering off before the chickens excrete on you, or are incapable of thinking past period end.

Well actually may be you're right after all the russkis used to have 5 year plans didn't they.

Yes I know they didn't work, but that's because the employees got paid naff all and weren't allowed to claim overtime.

by tonythetiger

I'd just as soon get rid of salaries AND hourly rates and get paid by the job. Not that it will ever happen...

by joiseybill

If you hold "exempt" status, your employer expects that you will occasionally be working more than a "normal" work day or work week.
On the other hand, that sams status guarantees that any day that you do -some- work is a compensated day.

IANAL, but this FindLaw article seems to make it pretty clear.
http://library.findlaw.com/2005/Feb/4/146333.html

If your employer "gives you a hard time" - that you have to deal with. If they dock your pay in violation of the law, then you (and everyone else who works there) might be able to retroactively claim OT pay for the past 3 years. Check with your lawyer, but this is a nice bit of knowledge.

by jck

how retroactively I can claim that.

I was salaried at one company and averaged over 60 hours a week for 4 months because project management allowed the customer to make "last minute" design changes and we were expected to make up for it. Then, I was made to take less pay when I took ill later on.

Of course, I heard it is also illegal for an exempt employee to be required to fill out a timecard denoting their hours of work. I did that for over 2 years.

Maybe I need to call the US Department of Labor. I'd be interested to hear their opinion of these things.

Thanks for the info.

by noyoki

> Of course, I heard it is also illegal for an exempt employee to be required to fill out a timecard denoting their hours of work. I did that for over 2 years.

How can you tell if you are/aren't exempt? I do that (via Juris Timesheets, understandable if we are billing the client, but 98% of what IT does isn't billable. They just want to know what the h*** I'm doing. Nosey B******s. *grumbles*)

by reed eldridge

Frank,

In my opinion, everyone should be compensated for overtime. Besides the obivious company profit motive (greed?), the only reason I can see the need for salaries with no overtime is company budgeting.

The National Labor Relations Board determines which postions are exempt and do not get overtime and which positions are non-exempt and are paid overtime. Most lower IT positions like data entry are non-exempt and most higher positions like IT Director are exempt. (See the National Labor Relations Board for more information on exempt and non-exempt positions.)

I have worked in IT for over 20 years. The only time I was paid overtime was when the company fired our 3rd shift computer operator. The guy went to the National Labor Relations board and the Federal Government forced the company to pay us ALL overtime for ALL hours over 40, since we had STARTED with the company. We really liked that guy after that, even if he was not there!

So if you are in data entry or computer operations and you are not getting overtime, keep your signed time sheets and after you leave the company, talk to the National Relations Board. I do not recommend doing this while you are employed. I think you will create a very tense situation and will probably have to leave the company. But after you leave.............

For my other 3 jobs I have been paid a salary. When I asked employees about overtime, they said it was already built into the salary. I looked at market salaries for my type of position and I was paid over market. So I did not say anything to management. I felt overtime was built into my salary. But if you are not being paid with over an over market salary and you are not paid overtime or compensated for it, I would look for another job. The chances of changing salaries levels at your company are very low, unless you are the President and CEO of the company.

However, if you are in a exempt position, working overtime and you are paid or compensated for it, I would ask management politely why you are not being compensated. If all they can say is, "It's part of your job," I would look for another job.

I hope this gives you some ideas.

Reed

by fdsudds

thanks Reed,
I am looking for another job.. they don't know how to treat people here.. Need to move on.

by choule

Frank,

Sometimes this is the price you pay to move to a higher pay scale. I have seen this more in non-technical positions, but the bottom line is that you have to decide whether the job is worth it.

Generally, a salaried person is expected to do what is necessary to "get the job done". I've had a couple of instances where it was necessary to put in a 24-hour shift during crunch time. The reason I was okay with it were:

1. It wasn't a normal event.
2. The extra effort was recognized and appreciated. It may have also had something to do with a future promotion.
3. The overall salary compensated for the exception event.
4. It was a great job.

Everyone needs to place their own circumstance on the scale to decide whether the specific situation is acceptable to them. One question you might ask yourself is: ?What would I do if it was my company??

If the extra effort were above and beyond what you would want if you were working for yourself, or if your company/manager abuses the policy, bail-out.

Good Luck
Chuck

by fdsudds

Chuck,
I agree that it is part of the job. And like you said you would at least like to be appreciated and we are not. And our pay scale doesn't take into the fact of overtime. If it was higher, I probably wouldn't complain. And I am not asking for money, I just wanted some comp time, to go to the doctors or whatever I needed it for. They will let you here, but most of the time it's like pulling teeth.
You ask what would I do if it were my company? I would try to treat my employees with more respect and reward them for effort beyond the time they are here.
You treat your employees good and they do good work for you..

by stevegrieshaber

We only get paid overtime for certain grades and most of the IT staff are well over this grade (would be). If we get called in, we do not get paid anything. However, we do get time-off-in-leiu for the hours worked which our management will round up to the nearest half or full day. Many other non-IT staff often work weekends which is non-sanctioned overtime and do not receive anything either.

by ju1ce

No compensation but forced overtime..

I'm no longer there as I switched jobs. :P

by ju1ce

No compensation but forced overtime..

I'm no longer there as I switched jobs. :P

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