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  • #2186438

    Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???


    by sleepin’dawg ·

    The U.S. Secret Service does it’s best to hunt down cybercriminals, at all levels but in Canada the job is left to local law enforcement, which is next to useless. The Secret Service does the best it can but they are only playing catch-up.

    Should you transact business on the internet??? Do you really believe organisations like Verisign or PayPal are secure and able to protect you??? What recourses do you have if you get ripped off??? EBay and Amazon and others offer the convenience and comfort of online shopping from your home or office but at what cost to your financial security and safety???

    Sure it’s convenient but should we really trust on line banking and bill paying services??? Follow the attached links before you make up your mind and before you decide, know this; “The Shadowcrew” are only the tip of the iceberg.

    In case anyone thinks this is all a fantasy this is the link to [b]The Shadowcrew [i]AFTER[/i] being busted by the Secret Service; still up and running, somehow, it seems. This seems to be an all purpose site for scumbags right down to and including, it appears, paedophiles. It could be dangerous opening any of the links or forums inside.[/b]

    If you live in the US you’re a little bit safer than Canadians but not by much. You do have the Secret Service doing its best to protect you but they are having difficulties keeping up.

    Everytime you transact business online you are increasing your exposure to risk. Don’t think it can’t happen to you because it certainly can,that is, if it hasn’t happened already. The links are Canadian in origin but the stories apply to both Canada and the US equaly.

    [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

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  • Author
    • #3153219

      In Australia

      by mjwx ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      I think the AFP (Australian Federal Police) as well as local law enforcement (Sometimes) is charged with the investigation of cyber crime and identity theft (don?t quote me on this).

      The banks themselves are also charged with monitoring fraudulent transactions.

      I tell everyone (especially the non-computer savvy), when buying online to take basic self preservation measures:
      1) Only deal with reputable stores (If you can?t call them and talk to a person don?t deal with them).
      2) Make sure you are running Anti-Virus/Firewall/Anti-spyware (I don?t consider the MS variants of either to be secure).
      3) Keep records of what you do, always, always, always keep a record.
      4) Avoid using a public computer as you dont know whats on them (An anonymous unprotected computer is worse than anonymous unprotected sex).
      5) My personal favourite [b]don?t use IE[/b].
      and a good general purpose rule
      [b]If you don?t know what you are doing, don?t do it[/b] especially with a credit card.

      I don?t buy online if I can go to a store to get it, There?s something to be said about face to face transactions with cash (My cash has never been rejected, anywhere)

      • #3153063

        They accept your money because you do

        by deadly ernest ·

        In reply to In Australia

        such quality forgeries, much better than mine.

        OK where ever possible I will place the order and then use BPAY or call them to provide credit card details on the phone.

        I do NOT use PayPal, eBay or the like as I do not trust them. Some time back a friend rang me direct to ask about something I was selling on eBay, got very confused when I informed them that I did not even have an eBay account. Checks with eBay resulted in a fake account in my name being closed down – that was great security and checking on their part – and they had already had a number of complaints about ‘my’ not deliverying goods. And people wonder why I do not trust them.

    • #3153215

      I very regularly

      by jardinier ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      purchase items online — mostly the USA — from the vendor’s secure website. There has never been a problem of any kind. It is mostly software and DVDs that I purchase.

      I avoid PayPal because I have been on the receiving end of several phishing atttempts related to that website.

      I refuse to do my banking online because I know that the security is not 100 per cent.

    • #3153201

      i pretend its OK

      by shellbot ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      I shop online for almost all gifts for family back in canada. The Exchange rate is in my favour and generally free shipping.

      In UK I buy books/ dvds. 99% of my music is purchased online by downloading.
      I haven’t seen the inside of my bank in 4 years, I do it all online.

      I know there is a good chance i will get hit some day. I am slightly ashamed to say, I just close my eyes and hope for the best. I am not even aware of who polices it in Ireland. Based on how they handle everything else..I’d say no one.

      I tell myself its ok and check my VISA statement thoroughly. Go on..tell me how stupid i am 🙂

      • #3153161

        Tell you you’re stupid??? Why???

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to i pretend its OK

        Too trusting and naive perhaps but why would I call you or anyone stupid??? What I do suggest is, that you keep all personal records that are on your computer, either encrypted or password protected. Ensure that your anti-virus and anti-spyware is up to date. Better yet, do not mantain any personal info on your computer and keep records on removable media.

        I am still not impressed by anything that anyone has ever bought me over the net. I’m not even impressed with the stuff I’ve bought for myself or others. I don’t know why this is so, it’s just the sensation I get that the whole process is lazy and impersonal and I don’t like the feeling that someway, somehow, somebody is going to try to rip me off.

        I know I’m pretty good with a computer and could wreck havoc on the net if I were so minded but I’m not, so I don’t. However, just because I won’t doesn’t mean others are similarly ethical, plus they may be and quite possibly are, possessed of better computer skills than mine.

        Due to the rapidity of change in the markets, I am forced to transact some business on line but I have a varied mix of secuity precautions I take to ensure my privacy isn’t breached, too severely and that if it should be, the effects will be minimal. Admittedly this requires a bit of effort on my part but if I ‘m going to be ripped off, it won’t be because I was too lazy to have taken any precautions to maintain my security.

        I limit my online shopping to items I cannot possibly locate by any other means. The credit card that I use is not a credit card but a debit card that I maintain for the purpose of online buying and there is never more money deposited to the card than is required to complete the specific transaction. This limits any losses to that transaction specificly and to the amount of the transaction in the event anything turns sour.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3153157

          same card policy

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Tell you you’re stupid??? Why???

          as I use, a pre-paid credit card, which only ever has the amount of the purchase on it to stop over charges and debt load from unethical persons screwing me.

          Most people I know still only shop in person, in local stores.

        • #3159178

          Yes and I am on of them

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to same card policy

          Would you believe that I’m not even comfortable when I go to a Dept Store and use my Visa knowing that somewhere along the line it will have to cross over onto the net to finalize the transaction and the same thing at the Bank etc? I always rely on my hopes that their security is up to par but always have that gut feeling that “What if someone else get’s this?” I don’t mean to sound Paranoid, [Boy it’s hard not to be] but we all know the Visa info doesn’t stay in the store, it goes to their central I would imagine, so naturally I’m thinking “Hope it makes’ it”. 🙂
          That’d where we’ve gotten, not good.

    • #3153195

      ID Theft

      by tig2 ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      Having been the victim of Identity Theft, I can tell you that it changes your life.

      I no longer bank. Anywhere. I deal in cash alone.

      As my idiot cell provider refuses to accept cash in payment of a bill(!) I have discovered pay as you go MasterCard. This is a fee based service but is quite secure. I put what $$$ I need on the card, use it- even online- to pay my cell bill or, occaisionally, make a purchase from an online retailer. The card points back at my name within the provider system but no where else unless I create the linkage. And if the number is stolen, I just call the provider and get a new number assigned. The worst case is that I lose only that money that I have put on the card.

      I will spend the rest of my life trying to deal with the impact of ID theft. Until we do a better job of protecting ourselves, I don’t think that on-line is any too safe.

      Shell- you aren’t stupid. You are very trusting. Please consider that when you see it in your card statement, it is too late. Find out what your bank is committed to doing to help in the event that you are the victim of theft. If you don’t like the answer your bank provides you, start shopping banks.

      • #3153149

        Credit card fraud

        by jardinier ·

        In reply to ID Theft

        I was a victim of credit card fraud (not online). I just happened to check my balance at the ATM and found there was just over $1,000 less than there should have been.

        I went into the bank and checked the transaction. It was from a panel-beating shop that I had never heard of. The bank allowed me to ring the card department on the bank’s phone. I explained what had happened.

        Later in the day I found that no action had been taken. The idiot had taken the panel-beater’s word that he would call back later. By the time I got the card cancelled, there was another smaller transaction. This was in the days of manual transactions (before EFTPOS) so that some merchant must have recorded my details.

        The logical thing to do I would have thought was to ask the panel beater the registration number of the alleged car, which he would not have known, and that would be that. But no. Nothing as obvious as that. As my card was almost maxed out the bank temporarily credited me for the amount, after which I was assumed the guilty party until proven otherwise. There was a considerable interval of time (like weeks) before my claim was validated.

        I was not happy about that.

        Now with EFTPOS the merchant can only record your details by looking at the card, which never happens. However there is so much credit card fraud that any merchant who doesn’t know you very well will check your signature against the one on the card.

        When internet banking was first introduced, I signed up with three banks, not to make transactions but just to check my balance and details of payments. With bank A, I could never access my details. With bank B, they only provided transaction history up to one month prior.

        Bank C actually gave me the information I wanted.

        [b]HOWEVER,[/b] after a very short interval in order to access my details I had to agree online to a long disclaimer which (a) said the bank could change any of the rules at any time without informing me and (b) the bank accepted no responsibility for breaches of security.

        Well that ended my internet banking very smartly.

        I believe now that the banks do accept liability for anything above a nominal amount, but too bad Charlie.

        There was a great “joke” that at one point in time, with one particular bank, customers were accessing other customer’s accounts by accident. That made the newspapers.

        [b]BUT,[/b] one bank (not one of the aforementioned) actually did something useful. They suspended my account. When I enquired why, it was because of “unusual activity” in the form of frequent purchases from America. So they had protected me against possible shonky dealings.

        [Edited to add a nice story]

        • #3153135

          What gets t o me is…

          by tig2 ·

          In reply to Credit card fraud

          In the US we have set all kinds of legislation in place, presumably to fight this kind of problem. But getting appropriate levels of compliance in place is almost impossible. Instead what you get is a lot of posturing by companies that cannot pass an audit of their privacy and compliance regulations. No buy-in from senior levels means no traction for the initiative.

          It will get worse as off-shoring gains speed. It is very difficult to get Indians to understand the concept of protecting personal non-public information. They don’t have Social Security numbers, or indeed any number that identifies them uniquely. So it is very difficult for them to understand why protecting that information is vital.

          It gets worse when it comes to not sharing information in teh work environment. Most companies have some kind of policy in place to regulate information sharing but few companies actually enforce the policy. Simply marking a document “Confidential” should be sufficient to communicate that the circle with whom you share the information should be controlled. Most Indian out-sourcers share so much data internally that “Confidential” means nothing.

          ID Theft has been an ongoing problem for some time. Why then are there not better rules governing who carries the burden of responsibility and what levels of notification should be enforced?

          Until we place a level of importance on this issue, corporations will consider being out of compliance and the associated fines as merely the cost of doing business. Until we effectively communicate to FIs that we MUST have a better system of checks and balances, we must continue to safe-guard everything and trust no one.

        • #3154220

          check signature against

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Credit card fraud

          the one on the card? no, check signature against the one on your PHOTO ID.

          that is the recommended way now. to put onto the back of the card see photo id instead of signing.

        • #3154135

          We don’t have that yet in Australia

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to check signature against

          although I believe it is on the way.

          Driver’s licences have photo and signature, but this is not used for eftpos transactions. It is used for identity in many situations, but not simple merchant transactions.

        • #3154062

          that is merchant fault..

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to We don’t have that yet in Australia

          it has always been the proper procedure when processing a credit card to see photo id with it.

          the card companies here, now say to write see photo id on the back, rather than sign it.

          this helps with lost / stolen card fraudulent transactions, but not with online transactions.

        • #3158763

          No doubt you’ll make me look it up

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to that is merchant fault..

          I had a cashier ask for my ID when using a credit card. I refused to show ID and had the manager called over. The manager explained to the cashier that one of the purposes of having a credit card was that it required no other ID beyond a matching signature.

          Now I’ve got to look that up for myself. I’ll get back with you.

        • #3159744

          Looked it up

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to that is merchant fault..

          Other references are similar to that posted below. Now I know.

          CREDIT CARD IDENTIFICATION: [Civil Code 1747.8.]

          Businesses that accept payment by credit card cannot write, or require you to write, your address, telephone number, or other personal identification information on the credit card transaction form. Also, businesses cannot use credit card forms that have pre-printed spaces for a telephone number, address, or other personal information. The law does not prohibit a business from asking to see identification, such as a driver’s license or identification card when accepting payment by credit card, as long as the information is not recorded on the credit card slip or elsewhere. This law applies to retail sale transactions where a credit card is used, but does not apply to cash advances; transactions where personal identification information is needed for shipping, installation, or servicing; or when the business is required by contract to obtain such information in order to complete a transaction.

    • #3153160

      Local Police inCanada?

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      for the majority of the country [area wise ] that is the RCMP, which is the Federal Police Department.

      heck 30 minutes on transit and I’m in a CITY that has the RCMP as the local police. In one way, this actually makes the RCMP more able to handle transporting and captuing of all criminals, the issues with it lie with the city bylaws, those wind up being enforced by city staff, which gets them little respect. The local police have to enforce federal laws as well as provincial laws and city laws, This is a balancing act as they have to decide if the suspect is to be charged under city, provincial or federal laws, much more work.

      I do think that we need to have a single unit that is responsible for investigating and prosecuting cyber crimes, but with the advent of wireless it actually requires local police officers to detain the suspect. To do this, City and Provincial police departments would have to be absorbed into the RCMP, to have the budget and manpower for such a unit. The problem with the latter, a lot of provincial and city police are not acceptable as rcmp officers.

      • #3153155

        Actually if you read both articles you will find the RCMP quite absent.

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to Local Police inCanada?

        It seems Edmonton and Toronto police are leading the way but only within their own jurisdictions. At present Canadian law, especially federal, is quite weak in this area.

        Another thing to note, except on crown property or in crown matters, the RCMP has extremely limited jurisdiction in the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, which maintain their own police forces. At one point Quebec was the North American haven for phone fraud. The criminals were careful not to commit any crimes within provincial jurisdiction, which made it difficult to prosecute them for laws broken elsewhere, until legislation was enacted to cover the contingency.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

      • #3158854

        Jurisdition, etc., etc.

        by bwallan ·

        In reply to Local Police inCanada?

        The only time I’ve ever gained the interest of the RCMP in fraudulent activities is when the problem was international, i.e.: Nigerian e-mail/bank scam. I have no idea what the end result was; however, I still receive the same e-mails from “Nigeria” or other “foreign” countries AND the scam is still going on many years later. I do know a letter was written to the Canadian foreign office in Nigeria but appears to have accomplished little if anything.

        I was told the RCMP had jurisdition on this type of international activity, at least out west.

        I think in a lot of cases, the “crooks” can easily operate relatively untouched by insuring they operate in areas where there are jurisditional conflicts, i.e.: no one is sure who is responsible for investigating and putting a stop to the illegal activities; thus, nothing gets done.

    • #3153126

      With the usual precautions, I’ve never had a problem.

      by mickster269 ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      And when I say usual, it’s firewall, Spyware/Virus protection, etc, etc on the computer. I also never use a wireless network.

      I don’t own any Credit cards – actually, you don’t “Own” a credit card, you rent one (in my opinion). I have a debit card, that my bank will cover 100% of any fraud/theft/unauthorized usage of it. Twice I’ve had websites that tried to make additional charges to my account without my authorization, and twice they were handled promptly and to my satisfaction.

      I pay my utility bills thru the individual companies secure websites. I have monthly bills that are not accesable thru a web site, so I use my bank’s online site.

      I check my checking balance daily, to watch for any discrepancies.

      Now, with that said – I’ve not had a problem with online shopping. It’s practically the only way I can get anything from L.L. Bean. I’ve bought stuff from Amazon, used ebay.

      I feel that if you use your wits, take precautions, and don’t assume anything, that online shoping / banking CAN be an asset to a busy life.

      • #3153037

        That is what most people assume right up to the point they get ripped off.

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to With the usual precautions, I’ve never had a problem.

        Once you put any information out there, it’s up for grabs. As good as you think you are and despite all the precautions you take you are vulnerable and someone, somewhere, someday is going to take advantage of that. I just hope it isn’t too severe an experience for you.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3152994

          So you are say, that 100% , without a doubt, no matter what I do..

          by mickster269 ·

          In reply to That is what most people assume right up to the point they get ripped off.

          I’m going to get ripped off?

          And that every person who ever buys even just one item online is positively , no way around it, consider it done, going to get ripped off?

          I’ll wager you $5 (American) that you are wrong. We can use Pay-Pal to transfer the funds.

          Then why don’t we just shut down all internet sales sites, online banks, investment services, Ebay, and casinos, and call it a day?

          ok, maybe I can see the Online Casinos…

        • #3154203

          Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Jobs. What do these men have in common?

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to So you are say, that 100% , without a doubt, no matter what I do..

          Would you consider your computer skills greater than theirs. How about Linus Torvald or Michael Dell. Surely your computer skills are better than those two.

          Now give your head a shake because you have an inflated idea of how good you are and also your reading comprehension is somewhat defficient.
          I never said it would happen; I said it could happen which isn’t quite the same thing. Pay-pal and Verisign have both been breached several times and will probably be hit again.

          On the shadowcrew website the Secret Service found mor than 3 1/2 million names c/w with credit card numbers, addresses, social security numbers and that was only at the site they busted. They suspect, but have no way of being sure, that the crew has over five times as many card numbers and social security numbers at several other locations . The Shadowcrew are only one gang, there are others and the Secret Service claims they haven’t come any where close to catching a quarter of them.

          Just because nobody has used your information yet doesn’t mean they won’t. Can you be absolutely certain they don’t have your info already??? If we believe the Secret Service these people have the identities and credit info of almost 20 million already. Are you claiming you can’t possibly be amongst them.

          I take the attitude if it is possible to be done it will eventually be done, so I have taken steps to minimize my potential losses and buy nothing online unless I have no other choice. Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done.

          What do the five guys at the top of the page have in common??? They have all experienced some form of fraud on the internet.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3160692

          Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Jobs. Also

          by 123speedy ·

          In reply to Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Jobs. What do these men have in common?

          These three also had a major influencing hand in creating this world wide web in one form or another. They’re more of a target I would think than random ID theft, but hey, with that exception, I guess they’re no different.

        • #3158760

          Facilitators not creators like Al Gore

          by craig_carman ·

          In reply to Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Jobs. Also

          There was a time in history, back in the bulletin board days and before, if I remember correctly, when those guys had little or nothing to do with the internet. Certainly those men have been facilitators of what now seems like “all things computers”. I recall a time when Bill Gates was reported to have thought the internet was just a trend and did not support “non-microsoft” inter-networked computing.
          Everyone should know that Al Gore takes all the credit for creating the internet.

      • #3158740

        From an on-line merchants POV

        by mark.denbow ·

        In reply to With the usual precautions, I’ve never had a problem.

        I am an online merchant selling worldwide.
        One thing I can assure you is that if you speak to your bank regarding a suspicious transaction they will instantly reverse the transaction & debit the merchant’s account.
        It is then the merchants responsibility to prove that transaction is legitimate….not the buyers
        The buyer & the merchant must agree that the transaction is legit & notify the bank before the funds are returned to the merchants a/c.
        We usually have about 5% of our monthly turnover in dispute because the name printed on the cc statement is our company name not our “store” name.
        ……and we are a legit company, only charging when we ship the goods.
        I think there are too many occurences where consumer do not challange their banks.
        (and of course this does not prevent fraudulent companys who empty their a/c every 2-3hrs)

    • #3153118

      The on-line shopping

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      Most things I prefer to walk into a store, pick up the few items I am deciding between, and then get the one I want.

      Could I save some money buying that same thing on-line? Sometimes, but what I save on taxes is paid in shipping.

      If I have a problem with that product, I have a place I can take the product back to. If an on-line purchase, it is send it out and hear back in a few months (if at all).

      I went to my credit union and asked for a card with their lowest limit ($500) and all that is ever used for is internet purchases. Buy something, pay it off. Easy to keep it straight.

      I suppose on the other hand I could use my EX’s method of fending off identity theft. If you max out all of your cards and ruin your credit, then when someone tries to steal your identity, maybe it will be them that gets in trouble for being you? 😀

    • #3153065

      better to use Amazon

      by dr dij ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      since you can buy from hundreds of little vendors who ONLY get the payment from amazon, NOT your credit card info.

      and Amazon can step in if you get a problem with the vendor.

      You still have to be somewhat careful that amazon vendors have a reputation for timely shipping, etc. as some vendors that I see with bad ratings on sell thru amazon.

      Presumably they are at least somewhat better behaved but you should still read all the negative comments on resellerratings AND on amazon vendor ratings.

      A negative rating on amazon shouldn’t automatically disqualify you from buying things from them. Esp. if vendor has responded. A bad rating SHOULD get you to look on for example to see. I read only the negative ratings. If they are something I wouldn’t want to happen to me I won’t buy from that vendor on Amazon.

      Chances are others with better ratings also sell same item you’re looking for. If the bad vendor was lowball price then even more likely they are a shoddy outfit if they have bad ratings. If not find a better vendor elsewhere.

      On ebay, do your best to find out if the seller has a store elsewhere and look for feedback on this store. and read all the neg ratings, again, look for vendor responses. the neg ratings may have been unreasonable.

      • #3153024

        Dij, you aren’t quite getting it. As soon as your personal information…..

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to better to use Amazon

        is on line it is up for grabs. The more frequently you do transactions on line the greater your exposure to risk is regardless of what sight you are transactting on; EBay, Amazon whatever. You should have seen the accompanying programs to these articles, the kid being interviewed was completely contemtuous of all the supposed safeguards and gave a live demonstration of just how easy it was to retrieve information. The guy was 19 years old and the information he retrieved was from someone who was positive it couldn’t be done, a supposed IT specialist, who ended up shocked at the display of his vulnerability and the ease with which it was done. He should have been shocked he was head of security for a banks’ Master Card affiliation. What shocked me was this demonstration was so readily shown on live TV.

        You are no better protected on Amazon as a anywhere else. Thinking that could end up costing you.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

    • #3153012


      by dr dij ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      first of all the guy started with paper. So I’d say that with each paper transaction you do you are putting yourself at risk. Does that mean you should stop buying with your credit card from local merchants?

      second, nowhere in either article did it mention they have compromized large online retailers, whose security is probably better.

      what they get from credit agencies doesn’t include account#s at banks or credit cards.

      sure they should go after them.
      in fact I think it would help if they partitioned the net into aboveboard commerce sites, & non-spyware websites and others.

      kind of like defining a ‘good part’ of towne.
      you’d have to gain acceptance by standards and regular scans perhaps or other means to be in the ‘green zone’ of the net.

      since an article today on computerworld shows that 3.1% of web search results on google, others point to spyware/ trojan download sites, and 9% of sponsored ads point to same suspicious sites, this would be a great idea. in fact these sites could be setup to put spyware sites at tail end if they include results at all.

      • #3154197

        Sorry Dij, I saw the accompanying programs

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to well..

        Everything you say about no compromise of large retailers is pretty lame if they had already breached Verisign and Pay-pal. In one interview the guy showedhow he used a stolem credit card number and had the goods shipped elsewhere.

        It’s nice to be trusting and hope for the best but you should be prepared for the worst at all times,

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3154077


          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Sorry Dij, I saw the accompanying programs

          I think some e-commerce setups are reasonably safe, yet they could be improved. I’ve had some close calls: found keylogger on my PC. (which I thought would be impossible since I’m very careful and have many safeguards in place). Changed passwords, etc.

          Visa and MC don’t want your card# stolen either as it looks bad and they may have to pay. The internet just make ID thefts larger in # and easier to exchange cards. Not necessarily easier. It is easier to open someones wallet and take the card, or swipe it thru a card reader of your own in a restaurant for example.

          Some hacks can be complicated for hacker, sometimes traceable back to them, and there ARE effective defenses, not that everyone is using them.

          computers / protocols / cc# storage on vendor systems needs to be locked down and made foolproof.

          It never will completely but the harder it is the less likely breeches are and the more likely thieves will take longer and get caught, just like a well locked down car will generally make them move onto a different car without an alarm.

          I’m all for segmenting the net: countries that won’t respond to help in shutting down illegal sites could have the whole country or just certain ISPs that are problems segmented off the ‘civilized worlds’ section of the internet.

          You don’t travel physically to the lawless sections of Pakistan or Russia, why should we let the internet in from such areas.

        • #3154039

          It’s a nice idea but how could it be accomplished.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Yup

          You would have all the bleeding heart liberals, up in arms, in protest.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

    • #3154339

      Secure-er Browsing

      by marketingtutor. ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      Anyone wanting to be sure that no sensitive data is compromised should simply install the free VMware player and use the pre-built browsing appliance. In that way, you can easily remove pretty much all of the risk at your end for compromised data.

      That of course doesn’t prevent the shop your sending your data to from using it wrongly. The same discussion I have with people EVERY time we get into the topic of internet shopping, online banking, and risk, ultimately leads to the same conclusion…Know the company you’re shopping with.

      Yeah that is not the end-all-be-all to it, but working in the IT arena, I certainly trust the technologies involved alot more than I trust placing phone orders with some bepimpled phone rep that I don’t know from a bar of soap. As swiftly as he puts my credit card info into the computer, he could just and swiftly be noting it down on paper to send off (for a fee) to the russian mafia.

      With the computer, there are audit trails, encryption, and many times the data is never touched or seen by humans.

      • #3154191

        You would think that but

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to Secure-er Browsing

        nothing beats looking an iten over, trying it on and paying cash for it. If it doesn’t fit I know right away; I don’t have to ask for a return authorization number and then wait for a refund to be credited to my account.

        The way I shop, the total experience takes less than half an hour. Go in, try it on. If it fits , pay cash and leave. If I have to use a crdit card, I make sure it stays in my sight at all times. A pair of slacks and a pair of shoes, two differnt stores, total time round trip to my car: 35 minutes. Everything fitted; no returns necessary, total in cash: $212:43.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3160127

          Identity theft problem with CASH

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to You would think that but

          once everyone converts to cash, the junkies roaming the backstreets of Edmonton will bag the little old ladies each loaded with their $212.43 in cash to buy trousers for their darling son. (Hey, my mom does this and mails them to me 🙂

          since they will also steal her wallet, it now could be identity theft (they’ll use her credit cards too, maybe forge some checks..)

          Don’t worry, those travelling with $212.43 in their pocket who have snarling dog avatars need not worry, they won’t be targetted (unless the junkie has a gun?)

          so anyway you’ll have to now carry a gun with you like they do in remote sections of Pakistan where there is no law enforcement and everyone carries guns for protection, and cash to buy stuff 🙂 Enjoy!

          Seriously, I think that in addition to tightening security, we need to prosecute people for this more actively. That will discourage and reduce this to manageable levels.

        • #3160119

          Agree and Disagree

          by tig2 ·

          In reply to Identity theft problem with CASH

          I will begin by saying that I pity the id10t that thinks I am a target. I grew up with women and I am here to tell you that we are meaner than cat sh*t when it comes to a fight.

          Opponent has a gun? He had better hope two things- one, that he still remembers how to fire. Two that I am not equally armed.

          In some towns in Arizona, I understand that it is a requirement to go visibly armed. While I have never experienced that, I have held a concealed carry permit for quite some time. I know how to shoot and I do it well.

          I agree that robbing little old ladies needs to be met with stronger penalties at conviction. I don’t know- being in the liberal zone- if it will help. Some jack@ss is going to start whining about the “rights of the oppressed”.

          If you try to rob me, I become the oppressed. I reserve the right to replace you with a very small shell script.

          If I see you try to “oppress” little old ladies, the same rules apply.

          Off the soapbox, I always carry two wallets. One has my ID and cash in it. The other has about $5 US. Guess which one the robber gets? And any sizable amount of cash is somewhere on my person. How often have you heard a robber say “Give me your bra”???

          If the FIs are going to continue to not take personal information privacy to a reasonable level, I think that a transfer to cash is the best possible option. The cash you take today is gone and will be replaced. It will be the rest of my life before I dig out of the hole caused by identity theft. How do you decide between the evils?

        • #3159011

          Cash problems

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Agree and Disagree

          sorry about your ID theft thing. Cash tho has other problems, i.e. getting it and keeping enuf on hand. Means you can’t make any unplanned purchases. This is very unpractical at times. I walked into Frys for something else, discovered they had seagate external USB /firewire drives 300 gig with one on sale at $170. End result, with what i was buying, would have had to carry $500 in cash with me. If everyone who went to fry’s or other stores had to have cash or majority of them actually had alot, this could increase crime rate drastically. they might skip YOU specifically if you looked big and bad but someone would be victim.

          perhaps the best idea is a combo of these: anonymous untraceable ‘cash cards’ that you type in a password to ‘open up’ and you could transfer card to card or card to store like a credit card but it would not give receiver your credit card#, just a one time# keyed to the amount of that transaction. i.e. they could not charge your account for any amount different than what you agreed to and typed in.

          numerous sci-fi shows have had money transfers this way. I’ve even seen prototypes discussed where they use one of the $10 cards that generates a new sequence every minute or two.

          This sequence is factored with the amount to provide a unique transaction ID that, like I said does not trace back to your account except anonymously, and cannot be charged any other amount.

        • #3160733

          Dij, I’ve always been able to go where I want , when I want. Some ………

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Identity theft problem with CASH

          people just can’t help being victims. It’s in the way they move, the way they hold themselve. I’ve heard both police and crooks refer to it as the victim personality. Whatever it is, I’m just generally left alone and have seldom ever been bothered by anyone but then again I do have a definite capacity for self defence.

          Carrying guns or a gun can be highly dangerous when you consider how many individuals who carry guns end up being shot by their own weapons. I’ve read somewhere that even police officers suffer casualty rates from their own weapons, ranging close to 20%. I don’t know what it says about the training methods of police but it says something to me about amateurs carrying loud noisy weapons. The presence of a gun according to statistics almost invites and guarantees the risk of violence. An empty handed calm non threatening posture poses no threat to an offender, unless of course he comes within reach. There are means to ensure that this happens.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3160667

          Psychologically – the prescence of the gun

          by deadly ernest ·

          In reply to Dij, I’ve always been able to go where I want , when I want. Some ………

          will mean that some one will try to use it in a tense situation. Most user accidents with a gun come about due to them getting careless with the safety, or intentionally shooting themselves – often with bad aim at the last moment.

          I have a friend who speaks against citizens carrying guns but advocates they carry less dangerous weapons – he has a marble walking stick with a nice hardwood knob on the end, he never moves without it. It is the same size and length as a martial arts weapon called a Bo, and he can use it very effectively.

          Personally I find that if you are not armed and another person is, they usually come close expecting you to quiver in fright, then get very shocked expressions when you break their arm in two as you relieve them of the gun or knife – seems no one tells these fools that a gun / knife is not a magical defence. They don’t seem to understand why the military are taught unarmed combat AND given knives and guns.

        • #3158756

          Police training videos and studies

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to Psychologically – the prescence of the gun

          have shown that a DETERMINED person with an edged weapon in-hand (knife, screwdriver etc.) within 20 feet of an Officer, (even if the Officer already has their pistol in-hand), has a greater chance of inflicting a fatal wound on the Officer than vice-versa.
          Police departments use those studies and videos in court to justify shootings.

          Gun control, to me, means being able to hit your target when you HAVE to.

        • #3159754

          20 feet can be covered in two or three seconds

          by deadly ernest ·

          In reply to Police training videos and studies

          and a knife is an area weapon while a gun is an exact weapon. A person can swing a knife through an arc of a few feet and hit a moving target, a gun has to be dead on target and has less than an inch of danger space.

          I have not seen or heard of the tapes and studies you mention but have seen studies which show that when a knife is introduced into a situation the fear and mental stability of those involved increase four fold while the itnroduction of a gun increases the fear and mental stability twenty fold – including the person with the weapon.

          Another interesting point is that most people feel invulnerable and scared when they brandish a weapon of any sort.

          When I went through the NSW Police Academy in the 1970’s the Firearms instructor taught us that we were never to touch our firearms unless we were absolutely certain in was needed and we were already mentally prepared to shoot and kill the suspect. He also taught that when the time comes that you have to shoot, shoot to kill – saves paperwork and trouble in court while lowering the dangers to you and others.

          Re hitting targets – most people learn to shoot weapons while shooting and stationary targets – hitting a moving target is a totally different story. I saw Chuch Yeager on TV the other night talking about fighter planes and he mentioned that studies after WW2 showed that over 80% of fighter pilots never hit any enemy aircraft they were shooting at as they did not understand about leading the target – this is also true of most law enforcement training. Although the new holographic training centres will change this, but there are not enough in use yet.

        • #3159737

          Deadly accurate Ernest

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to Police training videos and studies

          I graduated from the MLEOTC Police academy here. (Michigan Law Enforcement Officers Training Council)After graduation I worked as a Deputy Sheriff.
          After a career change and a couple of decades I joined a local police-reserve unit, mostly for the free training, 100 rounds of free ammo per week and an indoor shooting range. The only difference between our uniforms and full-time officers was the additional letter R, representing Reserve, on our City PD shoulder tabs. We had to meet the long list of requirements and training certifications for full-time officers. It was a blast.

          The City PD where I worked as a reserve has a Law Enforcement network set-up and that’s where I watched and was tested on the videos.

    • #3154258

      I accept that it’s insecure…

      by falling burrito brother ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      …and, although I do buy online, I ordered a separate credit card with a very small limit specifically for on-line use, so that if I DO get ripped off and the credit card company doesn’t come to the party (i.e. doesn’t accept that I was actually ripped off & offer some kind of refund) – then at least I only lose a couple of hundred dollars. Plus of course I DO understand the security issues and have my home PC fairly tightly tied down. Doesn’t make me safe, but at least I’m happy that my risk of a BIG loss is minimised.

      • #3154187

        further to the above…

        by falling burrito brother ·

        In reply to I accept that it’s insecure…

        …I have in fact had several items ripped off in the mail, that I have ordered online. I’m guessing that the on-line traders didn’t intitiate the rip-offs, as they used a track & trace system (that didn’t work, big surprise) and refunded my money each time.

        I guess one of the things then, is that on-line shopping is a risk at more than just the data entry point…

        I DO wish that like JDClyde I could browse shelves of local shops for what I want….but I live rural and good CDs\DVDs\Books (that I like) are rarely available at places that only sell the most pop top 10 of anything (i.e. most Malls, for instance). So – online shopping is the only answer for many of us.

        • #3154120

          It depends on how far away are the sources and how much……………

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to further to the above…

          patience you have. Do you really have to have that latest release of whatever, right now??? Would your life end if you never got it??? Is your life so empty that this is your only alternative??? I guess if you answered yes to any of that, you would feel compelled to shop online but you should be aware of all the risks.

          There is an alternative; ever hear of Bit Torrent??? Check out Opera 9 beta 1!!! Don’t worry about it being a beta release because you have never seen one quite so smooth and free of glitches. Bit Torrent is built into it and it runs very securely and quickly.

          Then you may be in position to answer the old question; is it better to be the ripper or the rippee???

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3154111

          that all depends

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to It depends on how far away are the sources and how much……………

          on what you’re rippin’ in the first place, I would think! Personally, if you ripped my expensive stuff, you’d get the bill for it!! (sorry, couldn’t resist. AREA WARNING – I’m in hyper mode again!)

          Personally, one card in existence with limited funding, only used in emergencies. No online anything else, seen too many taken down/out by that, including SME’s like mine. Won’t do it.

          But, then again, I’m the one who has trouble with “unusual payment habits” (yes, really) Twice in the last four years, I’ve had my card refused when my bank has decided that if I’m in London for a conference, I really shouldn’t be…… Ever been financially embarrassed in the SAME place TWICE?? Not nice. Believe me. X-(

          But if someone wants to lend me their card so I can buy some more expensive sexy lingerie, just pm me, won’t you???? 😉



        • #3154104

          GG dear….

          by tig2 ·

          In reply to that all depends

          You are incorrigible! But do take me along on the spree…

          Sexy lingerie. Hmmm. Been awhile.

        • #3161020

          a long way away from sleepin’

          by falling burrito brother ·

          In reply to It depends on how far away are the sources and how much……………

          Lots of patience (helps if you work in IT)….latest releases?? Who said anything about latest releases?? And why does the pursuit of decent literature, movies & music indicate an empty life? BitTorrent isn’t anything I’m interested in – I order stuff online because, for instance, gives me good hardback books at a price cheaper than I can get the softcover edition in the country I live in (incuding postage). And makes available quality DVDs and CDs you’ve probably never heard of, sleepin’, if you only cruise Malls.

        • #3160976

          I hate shopping and stay as far away from Malls as possible.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to a long way away from sleepin’

          I am fortunate to live in a city that has stores for just about anything imagineable. The only stores I ever browze in are hardware stores and book stores. I never buy clothing on line because I like to wear stuff that fits and find there is too much variance in sizes from one supplier to another.

          Hey it’s your money. You want to shop on line, that’s your decision; it’s just not very likely to be mine. Also I am not very big on designer labels. I would actually pay to have cornball logos left off my clothing. I know what brands I wear, I feel secure enough within myself, that I don’t need everyone else to know what makers label I wear. It pisses me off that sometimes I don’t have a choice because it is embroidered into the item.

          You mention living in another country and If that is the case maybe then I can understand your difficulties but I don’t have that problem.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3160975

          Before you ask, I have no idea why all the double posts

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to a long way away from sleepin’


        • #3160974


          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to a long way away from sleepin’


        • #3160973


          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to a long way away from sleepin’


    • #3160663

      Secure paper first

      by vytautasb9 ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      Interesting to note that the articles listed covered cybercases that started not from an electronic hack but from wastepaper. It would follow that one can reduce one’s risk more from shredding paper that has sensitvie and private information on it than trying to electronically protect it.

      I live outside the US now and miss being able to buy books from a wide selection. I have used Amazon for serveral years and have had no bad experiences. I try to reduce my risk in several ways. One of them is to use a debit card that has just about enough money in it to make the transaction. I am also about to use a new VISA “Virtuon” card that is a debit card designed for on-line purchases. Will be interesting to see how Amazon reacts to it.

      The world can be a dangerous place and we have to determine what is an acceptable level of risk and take reasonable steps to make it as safe as possible. Being able to make transactions on-line is a wonderful conveneniece. With time I am sure it will be safer than it is now.

    • #3160609

      Guard Your Phone

      by mollenhourb9 ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      Yes, lack of security creates potential risk to your finances, but more people are ripped off from phone scams, or having their telephone conversations “snatched” as they travel unsecured through the airwaves (land lines often go through the airwaves at some point too) than have data stolen from the Internet.

      Bottom line, reconcile your bank and credit card statements. The one time I had somebody try to use my card illegally; the number had been stolen from the registration desk at a reputable hotel.

      • #3160584

        One of the reasons to never let your card out of your sight, ever.

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to Guard Your Phone

        Always be aware of where your card is and what is being done with it at all times.

        Once in a restaurant, I was paying by card and happened to follow the waitress to the desk where she swiped my card. She was unaware of my presence until I politely asked why she was recording my name and card number, separately, from her establishments facility. I should have just asked for my card before she could record it; I lost over an hour and a half, having to wait to give a statement to the police.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

    • #3160441

      Don’t have to buy things

      by wdewey ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      There are hospitols, schools, government agencies getting hacked where you did not purchase anything from them with a credit card (and are required to supply info). Credit card info is getting hacked from records of purchases made in a store. There is risk in stepping out the door of your house (or staying in it). If you want to live off the land in some remote island with no one in for hundreds of miles, then great. I, however, don’t want to.

      I do agree that the web is out of control and needs a good deal of legislation and money thrown at it to make it more civilized. Unfortunatly it will also destroy privacy online (in my opinion) and create a lot of hassle for a lot of people.

      On a side note, where those 3 1/2 million cards all unique? I would bet money that 1/4 to 1/2 were duplicates and that 1/4 to 1/2 of the ones left were multipule credit cards for single individuals/families. That doesn’t make it any better. I just think thier numbers are inflated.


      • #3158813

        Boy would you be wrong. The Secret Service estimated……………….

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to Don’t have to buy things

        that the 3 1/2 million numbers found represent less than 10 -12% of the numbers out there up for grabs to the highest bidder. Less than 1/4 were seen to be duplicates.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

    • #3158857

      eBAY and PayPal Condone Shady Deals?

      by bwallan ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      If you wish to pay and not receive goods, all you have to do is be an international client attempting to buy goods from sellers on eBAY! By the time you’ve complained to the seller about not receiving the goods and had them claim to have resent them to you via UPS or other delivery agencies that have trouble spelling Canada let alone finding an address in Canada, it is already beyond the 45 day limit for submitting a complaint to either eBay or PayPal. It is also too late to add a bad reference to the company’s feedback thread.

      We’re talking about an open offer to sellers to be fraudulent under these conditions and a fair number of shady dealers take great advantage of the situation. I have been the recipient of at least two such “scams”, and I am only one person among millions with an eBAY account.

      I’m told that 90+ percent of sellers on eBAY are honest, ethetical business people. It is the other 10 percent that really annoys me. And I have found no way to get eBAY or PayPal to pay much attention to the practice! This is even more annoying… It is as if they condone the practice. I guess they’re making good money and cannot be bothered with the few bad apples making a dishonest living via their service!?

      • #3158810

        Well you do keep using the service. What do you expect???

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to eBAY and PayPal Condone Shady Deals?

        I gather you’re somewhere in Alberta but have no idea where. In your shoes, I’d wait until I could go to Calgary or Edmonton rather than buy anything online.

        [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3159321

          I expect some degree of corporate responsibility

          by bwallan ·

          In reply to Well you do keep using the service. What do you expect???

          eBAY and/or PayPal vetting their sellers would be a nice touch. Or allowing fraudulent activities to be reported well in excess of 45 days after the event. Or at least listening to buyer complaints. But no, they simple forget about the illegal activities on their service and allow the next reincarnation of the same company to register and start the cycle all over again…

          Some of their clientelle may not be too ethetical BUT eBAY and PayPal, by their lack of action, are in the same league as their worst clientelle!

        • #3159317

          eBay and PayPal do what they can.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to I expect some degree of corporate responsibility

          Do you believe they are always going to be successful or that someone who has been approved will retain their approval rating. Wake up. It is what it has always been, “Let the buyer beware” and if he doesn’t, it will be his own damn fault, nobody else’s.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

    • #3159894


      by callred ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      …credit/debit cards are always a security risk though – thats not unique to the internet. Whats to say that your waiter doesnt copy the number down when you give the card to him? Or that if you accidentally lose it that someone wont try to charge big ticket items on it? And pickpockets? In my opinion, credit cards are just as dangerous outside the internet as they are in it.

      In my opinion, this issue is with credit cards, not how they are used on the internet.

      I use online shopping fairly frequently because its often cheaper, I can avoid malls, and I can find hard-to-find items. This means more to me than some bogus credit card charge that I can always refute and just go get a new card. Maybe you dont have a good credit card?

      I have only had to refute/get a new card once in six years; and even then, the card was not compromised from online shopping. Thats just it – the risk is just as great outside the internet. So if you use a credit card at all, then why not online?

      Besides, its not like a credit card is a direct portal into your bank account…thats why they call it a ‘credit’ card after all…

    • #3159824

      Nothing new

      by mordacity ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      I am a fairly regular online shopper (usually just for computer parts, but you know). I also recently had my debit mastercard number hijacked and taken for a expensive sneaker-buying cell-phone-bill-paying ride. It had nothing to do with online shopping though. That fast food employee that seemed to be working awfully slow that day was actually writing down my credit card information while I was sitting in the drive-thru. Anytime you make a transaction using anything other than cash, you take a risk (you do know that even if your card never leaves your sight, those credit card processing terminals store all your information until they print it all out at the end of the day, right?). It’s the price we pay for convenience.

    • #3159180

      Don’t even use my Real Name online

      by aaron a baker ·

      In reply to Do you like buying things on line? If you do, how secure are you???

      I have been online for a good number of years now, 12 actually and the first thing I did was create my “Online ID”, It’s that simple, they can’t track what they can’t see and they couldn’t see me for the trees.
      I have never dealt online in any manner other than communication. I don’t buy, I especially don’t give out any “real” personal information let alone any info on my Bank Cards and/or Visas.
      I’m not saying this to appear like a “Holier than thou” I’m saying it because I genuinely fear the Net and what it can do.I don’t deal on the net.
      It’s gotten a lot worse over the years.
      All that I’ve seen in that time, with Yahoo,Google Underhandedness , E-Bay Phishing, CompuServe etc has done nothing except convince me that I did the right thing.
      Even now, you can easily be traced by your IP address so where does it end?
      For me it ended when I created my alter ego and stopped throwing information paper away without tearing it to shreds.
      From the beginning I’ve know that the possibility of danger existed, but I had no idea just how pervasive it would become and far it would go.
      In today’s world, the Net can destroy your life “Literally”, that is a very scary thought to me.
      All done by scum and rabble who could care less.
      So I created a shield at the beginning, and you know?
      I can’t say that I really feel that much safer anyway, but trust me, I am very Careful.
      Warmest Regards
      Oh yes, I’m in CANADA 😉

      • #3159407


        by dr dij ·

        In reply to Don’t even use my Real Name online

        I have all my mail sent to my nearby private mail box. This way thieves don’t have my home address. credit card bills, etc addressed there.

        I ship all packages there too so not sitting by door. there’s always someone there to sign for it.

        Only exception are electricity and cable bill.
        cell phone bill has no reason to goto home address.

        since shipto and billto are same on credit cards, they don’t have a problem sending to my pmb.

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