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Does Anyone Care Anymore??????

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by sleepin'dawg

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

[b][i]This is an excerpt from an article I read quite recently (yesterday) which I couldn't help thinking about overnight. So many of the points being made are valid, all the more so when applied to my own situation both corporate and personal. Lately, for one reason or another, so many of my corporate decisions have been made based on the performance of the globalization of the economy and I have been becoming increasingly aware of the potential for disaster and upheaval in the markets a la September - October 1987. We are overdue for a market correction and when it comes, so many will lose huge sums from their portfolios and IRAs unless they have found some way of positioning themselves to ride out the storm with minimal losses. There will be all sorts of opportunities to acquire investments on the cheap, in the aftermath but one can't be expected to do so if they are struggling to retain some modicum of their asset values. It gives me no pleasure in being a harbinger of doom but its better to be prepared and have a plan in place and not need it than to need some sort of plan and not have it.

From my own personal observations we've been overdue for one of those catastrophic market corrections for some time now and while these things can't be forecast with any degree of absolute accuracy I see it hitting somewhere in or after October of this year but before the same period in 2007. The markets may not correct all together but rather in a cascading effect of sector by sector but the end result could well be anywhere from 2000 to 4000 points net loss to the Dow and the corresponding indices of all the other markets including China's. The current state of the overheated Chinese economy could make them the first to slip but they should be and probably will be the first to recover. The dollar will decline further and nationwide unemployment could rise well into the double digits, approaching 15% and perhaps even 20%. As I said, does anyone care??? Is anyone even aware???[/i][/b]

Does anybody in America care that freedom, liberty and privacy are being diluted, diminished and destroyed? Or that government is running up some of the biggest deficits in annual spending, foreign trade and national debt ever recorded? Or that America has become a de facto world empire that may already be in decline?

Kevin Phillips' new book, American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century, puts together an amazing array of historical, religious, economic and political data to argue that the U.S. is about to join its imperial predecessors on the downhill slide - Rome, Spain, the Netherlands and Britain.

Phillips says the alarming signs are everywhere from the desperate attempt to retain oil sources by invading Iraq; to the "theocrats" seizing the Republican Party; to the evolution of the U.S. economy in which the production of valuable, manufactured goods has been replaced by a massive funny-money system of finance and, most ominously, government and private debt.

The scope of this book is massive and his analysis reads like a warning. Phillips sketches a future bankrupted nation by a web of religious, energy and debt that leaves America, the world's remaining superpower, all but helpless before emerging powers such as China, well before 2050.

An examination of empires in world history (Rome, Spain, Holland, and the United Kingdom), shows an identifiable progression from expansion, to dominance, to maturity and to what seems like inevitable decline. In that latter stage, governments and most people rarely see what's coming. Those who do can profit from their foresight.

Phillips traces the imperial journeys of each of these empire nations. He goes back centuries and compares those historic events to the current situation in the United States, the present world imperial power.

Phillips examines many aspects of each nation's imperial progress, politics, economics, religion, industry, finance and war. As he says: "The United States is hardly the first [empire] and we can profit from the examples of what went wrong before." There's a lot of arresting facts and figures in this book, although I don't agree with all of the author's conclusions. But you will come away fascinated with these disturbing past parallels -- and what they may portend for America's future.

It's an eye opener -- and it's not a pretty picture for Uncle Sam and Americans, sad to say.

Phillips notes that two economic predictors of imperial end times are: 1) marked declines in a nation's manufacturing and industrial capacity and; 2) an increase in what he calls "financialization" as all sorts of intangible financial services replace tangible production.

In 1950, 30% of U.S. GDP came from industry and only 10.9 from financial services. In a reversal, 2003 U.S. industrial production amounted to only 12.7% of GDP and financial services had grown to 20.4%. Even more telling, in 2005, 45% of all corporate profits came from financial services and only 7% from manufacturing. And as Phillips shows, a lot of these modern "financial services" consist of little more then creating new forms of debt, then pushing all those debt papers around while collecting fees for doing nothing really productive.

In the declining years of the Spanish, Dutch and British empires, virtually the same patterns developed as we now see in the United States. Similarities with the current dilemma of the U.S. include a huge national debt, major and continued deficit spending, worrisome huge trade imbalances and a decline in the value of the imperial nation's currency.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? And yet another reason to consider offshore as the place for your financial haven.

[b][i]Speaking of debt, borrowing and "financialization". There has lately been a lot of activity in the derivatives markets. Massive and/or a collection of minor hiccups there, have preceded all recent market turmoil of the past and with the current levels of activity. they are an accident looking and waiting for a place and chance to happen. Grab ahold of your wallets and purses, we're all going to be in for a rough ride. Some of us will get through better than others but here's to the peers of TR enduring.[/i][/b]

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

[b][i][u]P.S.[/u][/b] I've read the book, referred to. It is a good read for anyone even though they may have no interest in the markets and don't dabble in investments.[/i]

Edited for spelling, punctuation and additional clarity.

62 replies

by rob mekel

On title: I do!

Will read this later on and comment you on it.

[i]Peeeew, it's now a f***ing 45 c as our climate regulation doesn't work any more. :(
I do very much care that it doesn't work :) [/i]

Rob

edited for format

by oneamazingwriter

I've been watching this happen over the last thirty years. I don't have anything to add to what you have posted. It's simply nice to see that someone else is awake. "History repeats itself," is a fact that I have had to accept along the way. Acceptance does not mean that we have to like something.

by sleepin'dawg

Failure to act is self-destructive and you will have no one to blame unless you do something concrete to protect your assets. This time around, it's going to be global and will make the S&L fiasco look like a minor bump in the road. You are going to see large banks merging for mutual protection and some of the could very well fail. Keeping your money under your matress could spell diaster for many, especially as the money further declines in value.

My ass is covered!!! Yours??? Mere acceptance isn't going to do much for your retirement and declining years. Your 59, if I remember correctly and have been into the end game, like it or not, for a few years now. I am not talking about settling for hamburger over roast beef here but how do you think you'll like the taste of dog food, especially the economy variety???

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by oneamazingwriter

What I accepted was that there wasn't anything I could do about the decisions of those around me, or the way I saw the economy going.
I was talking with a woman friend last night and she used the same example not wanting to eat dog food, but when we were done talking she said, "That's why I like being close to you. You'll get through anything!" She's headed to Finland in two weeks and I'm headed across the street to the library while free public libraries still exist.
Dawg, I posted because I was glad to see that someone else was aware of what has been happening and what is bound to happen. My errors in life are my "gold" to offer to others at this point. Mostly what I have to offer is to say, "Well, you can do that if you want, but when I tried that it didn't work well." Success, I've been told, is failure turned inside out. I already failed, Dawg. As others are on their way down, I am on my way up. I figure we may all meet in the middle.

by unclerob

I'm still relatively young (34) and have a nice little nest egg (around $70K) in mutual funds, an aggressive portfolio too plus another large sum of money in a savings bank account and although I'm canadian what you suggest will hit North America hard, not just the U.S., what do you do to protect yourself?

I'm also assuming the real estate bubble will burst and mortgage rates will rise to crazy numbers, and real estate value itself will probably plummet.

I'm not too thrilled about eating ketchup soup so what is the method of covering your a$$-ets?

Very interested so please reply back.

thx... rob,wpg

by tig2

I think that I have had a view to what you are saying but with global impact, diversifying doesn't seem to be the right answer, off shoring $$$ also doesn't seem to be the right answer.

How best to protect assets? I am not fond of banks at best- don't trust them- and have been careful to monitor my debt levels. But retirement is going to hit and my partner and I would prefer to feed cat food to cats and not us. We are 51 and 43 respectively and want to retire mid 60s or so.

It is VERY frustrating to think that after years of being so careful and planning to insure that we are covered, we might not be.

I know that market correction is due but wonder if the impact of the decline in 2001 might offset the timing some. I think that another impact may be the baby boom. We are, after all, getting to the point of retiring now and I should think that this will have an impact as well. My partner is mid-boom, I'm the end. I want to keep working until mid 60's but that is really only 20 or so years.

I will go find the book. And pass your post to my partner.

Thanks for taking the care, time, and attention that you so obviously have. I know I appreciate it!

by peter warren

Thanks for the post. I haven?t read the book, but I believe the premise is absolutely correct. No empire, admitted or not, can avoid decline. This is the way of things. Like any empire, the best the American empire can hope for is a gradual, managed decline. Unfortunately, there at least two things working against a ?soft landing? for our empire. First, our arrogance and pride continue to prod us into one fiasco after another. Second, our willful ignorance about climate change and it?s potentially disastrous effects keep us on a downward spiral of dependence on fossil fuels and antiquated technology.

by sleepin'dawg

You are looking at societal elements which may or may not change in time but are long term objectives. You must think short term on the personal level and ask yourself, [b]"How do I, as an individual, achieve financial independence and maintain the value of my assets, regardless of markets and market conditions."[/b] You have to maintain your focus upon yourselves and anything beyond that must fend for itself. The government won't protect you; nobody will protect you; as well as you can protect yourselves. Too many delay thinking about this sort of thing until it's too late.

Remember the S&L scandals of the late eighties. The handwriting had been on the wall for many years before that. The people who got caught up in that had only themselves to blame, either out of being obdurately uninformed and/or procrastination. The warnings were there but few paid attention. The ones who did made out like thieves in the night and nobody can blame them. The information was there for all and all that was required was the paying of some attention and being in a position to take advantage of opportunities as they presented themselves.

If you did it properly it was almost impossible not to make money in that situation and something similar is coming around again but on a global level this time, not just domestic. Don't be afraid to look offshore that's where some of the best opportunities for investment and guaranteed security lie. It isn't rocket science anyone can do it, if they have a mind to do so. Understand it isn't immoral or unpatriotic to make yourself rich and protect your assets. I so not suggest anyone do anything illegal and I do suggest paying all your taxes, at least as much as necessary. It is legal to avoid the worst aspects of taxation it only becomes illegal if you try to evade your taxes.

I may be a tax dodger but it is safe to say no one will ever be able to label me a tax evader.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by tig2

Thanks for the additional clarification. I also pulled the information from your response to someone else in this thread.

Hopefully learning more about will help me to shift what I am discovering is pretty ingrained thinking. Certainly Enron and others have been an effective teacher about trusting your employer to do the right thing as regards your pension plan, but I am catching myself as I read thinking that it shouldn't be this way.

Which proves that I am capable of idiotic thinking. Hopefully schooling my thoughts into new patterns will help.

Incidentally, I mentioned your hints re: banking to my partner. He paid for his divorce heavily and has been fighting to make up the shortfall ever since. We have driven ourselves nuts trying to insure that he is protected from me and vice versa. Off-shoring may just be the answer. We have refused to even consider marriage because of the tax ramifications as well as other reasons. But we are behind the eight ball on this- common law will define us as married no matter what we do. And we end up right where we started.

Any ideas? Pre-nup only goes so far. It can only protect him up to the day he enters a marital relationship. After that- even though accrued interest is based on what he brought to the table and has protected, that accrual is considered joint property. Not good.

As I re-read your post, I am begining to see a way that I actually CAN accrue some retirement $$$. Because of an illness and lack of insurance, I have deliberately remained "poor" because if I need the level of medical care I have needed in the past, I would be bankrupt over night anyway. And by not having assets, I have the option on falling back on the State's program- my first choice as it is the easiest path to my doctor. But off-shoring gives me the option of sending that $$$ somewhere else. And somewhere that the State can't see it is exactly what I need.

I must now go and Google search the gentleman you mentioned earllier and find some books.

by sleepin'dawg

Maybe you couldn't have done anything about the economy or the decisions of others but how about your own decisions??? [b]Those[/b] you could have done something about. If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got; a cliche for sure but ask yourself why do cliches become cliches. It's because they are self evident truths. Sitting around whining that you can't do anything due to the decisions of others is silly because you can always act [b]despite[/b] the decisions of anyone else. It only remains for you to get up off your behind and do something for yourself because nobody else is going to do it for you. Yes, if you're not careful, you might make some wrong decisions; hell, you might make all wrong decisions but at least you'll have had the satisfaction of them being yours and that you did try something.

I've experienced being rich and I've experienced being poor; trust me on this, being rich is way better.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by oneamazingwriter

A lot of people seem to have the two confused.
I have acted and continue to act. Do I strike you as someone who is sitting around whining? :)
As I said, I am on the way back up now. We all have ups and downs in life, Dawg. "Could have and should have" are past words. You've never made mistakes? Well, I have. I don't make the same mistakes now. I don't beat myself for anything, Dawg. I look to see what to do next and I do it. I have lived with money and without. Money is nice enough. It's not the end all of my life, though. I simply look to be responsible for what I do have and to apply lessons learned from errors in judgment in the past. Most of the time I am happier than a lot of people. Most of the time I am the one who has a little extra to share with someone. It will do.

by sleepin'dawg

Damn woman, you obviously don't seem to get it. [b][i]Acceptance[/b][/i] in which you sit on your duff, spewing all sorts of crap about your past and doing SFA about it, [b][i]is resignation[/b][/i] if you aren't doing anything to change matters.

[b]"I have acted and continue to act. Do I strike you as someone who is sitting around whining?"[/b]

Yes you do strike me that way. Ever since you have shown up on TR, you have been demonstrating a sickening eagerness to be "liked" and you've been jumping into the most inappropriate of places, for someone of limited skills and experience, expecting us all to respond to all your touchy-feely nonsense with approval. Well sweetcheeks let me tell you, you've missed the mark by a mile. What you have done and are doing, is being nauseating. I suppose you think your sachriny spews makes you appear perky, cute and girlish; well they don't. Most of us here find you mildly annoying. I emphasize mildly because if you were a serious annoyance, you would have received one of [b]sleepin' dawg's[/b] infamous or notorious flames long before this.

A lot of people find perky ones annoying but not me; I absolutely [b]hate[/b] perky and I especially hate it before my second cup of coffee in the morning. I don't even turn human until I've had my second cup. I tried being politely curt with you but that doesn't seem to work very well. You're too thick to get it. You obviously had no idea of what I was getting at but you stuck your oar in and just had to say something; didn't you??? "Hey world look at me. It's me Beth posting on TR with all the big kids even though I don't have a clue as to what is going on. They really love me here." Very sorry but we don't or at least, I should say, I don't. Your load of sugar makes me want to hurl.

Now we've all heard about your [b] big to do[/b] with Jardinier. Now that was truly funny. Here's this old broad, on TR with complete anonimity, feeling threatened by a man, also completely anonymous but who is 10,000 miles away. I think that about covers it; don't you. Listen you blousy old airhead, you've not been in any danger for an instant and for someone with as many miles on their odometer as you have, you should have known how to handle it without having to run to someone else whining that you were feeling threatened by the big bad Australian, who is, of course, over 10,000 miles away. If you are worried about threats; there are people living much closer to you than that.

Now having read and reread your post I just have to ask, why did you bother to peer mail me??? Am I supposed to feel honoured or flattered by a pm from good ol' Beth. I ask this because your pm isn't much different than your post here. So I have to ask, why the pm??? It was this obvious overkill that has pushed my buttons this AM. Try to remember the adage, "T'is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." If the objective was to provoke me, well then you've succeeded; beyond your wildest dreams, I would imagine. You can now claim the dubious honour of having been flamed by [b]Dawg[/b]. I know that in the background there will be some who will want to jump to your defence but unfortunately I won't be able to hear them over the sound of all the aplause. In case you don't know; there are two threads over in TRI ridiculing you and your presence here on TR. Oops, that was indiscrete of me; I probably shouldn't have let that cat out of the bag.

Well Big Red, I've had my say; I'm done. I don't like you nor do I hate you but you have definitely succeeded in annoying me. I would now suggest you go away to some place, where your limitations are not so readily apparent, and annoy them. Most people have put up with you out of some sort of misguided kindness, not wanting to hurt one so obviously challenged or crippled but now that I have been so malevolently indiscrete as to give you the swat across your nose that you have so richly deserved, you can expect others to do the same. Now go away and leave me the hell alone. If you don't, I might take to putting your peer mails up on TR for all to see and ridicule. Oh, just in case you are wondering, not only is this a reply to your post but you can consider this the reply to your peer message as well.

BTW, GG if you are reading this, I've borrowed your [b]"dippy tart"[/b] expression. It is truly appropriate in the present circumstances.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by sleepin'dawg

Then you have to make yourself informed about offshore tax havens and the beauties of private banking. You also need to know where and how to check the stability of banks both domestic and foreign. You need to acquire some taxation rules and regs for where ever you live as well as where you may choose to live when you retire. You need to learn how to invest and an excellent place to begin is reading abook about value investing by Benjamin Greene who was the financial wizard who inspired Warren Buffet. Read Warren Buffets books as well they are excellent information.

I highly recommend taking a course in speed reading because a lot of this stuff is as dry as dust and you'll want to plow through it all as fast as possible. Attend some seminars; Garth Turner, a Canadian MP now; used to give some excellent seminars but it has been ages since he has done so, at least as far as I know. I used to give seminars myself and I wasn't cheap but I like to think I gave value for the money.

Use the net. Google a guy called Gary Scot. He provided excellent information and he would bring in all sorts of contacts from banks in offshore havens. The last time I heard from him he was still doing his seminars but he has gone a little "New Age" on me. He and his wife Merry are nice people and the information and services they provide are excellent if a trifle folksy and New Age. Get on their mailing list. Check out a group called Agora Publishing in the baltimore Maryland area. They provide excellent material. Get on their mailing list.

Understand, nobody is going to take you by the hand and make you into a millionaire overnight. You will have to pursue most of the information for yourself and make your own decisions. These people will offer guidance and advice but it will be up to you how you look at the risk/reward ratios and what advice you will accept or reject. Buy The Dictionary of Financial Terms put out by Barrons. Buy The Investors Business Daily and perhaps the Sunday edition of the London Finacial times, daily for the former.

Learn and understand everything there is to know about compound interest. You may think you already know this but trust me you don't and you will never achieve financial independence until you do. Learn and understand the [b]Rule of 72[/b] which is the only guaranteed method I know of in telling you how long an investment will take to double its money.You divide the rate of return on your investment into 72 and the answer will be how long, in years, for your investment to double, using compound interest. An ROI of 18% will take precisely 4 years to double itself. BTW this rule is handy when considering ROI on many things not just financial issues.

I've given you a jumping off point, it's now up to you whether you pursue it or not. After a while you may have to spend a few bucks or even lay out some serious money to attend a seminar or two but if you listen carefully and learn it will be money well spent. If I ever get back to giving advice and seminars again, I'll give you a heads up but remember I won't come cheap and maybe if you ask nicely I'll give you a discount. One other thing, I've pointed you towards a few things but understand I have absolutely no dealings with any of these entities. I don't even know if they still exist or not but I suspect most still do, it's just that I don't follow them so much anymore because of lack of time as well as need. Good luck but you shouldn't really need it if you study and learn and stay patiently conservative.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by sleepin'dawg

You might want to start thinking of whereever you work, as the place you work at, not for. You work for yourself, you are selling your skills as a service for your benefit, not any company nor anyone else. The day is 24 hours 1/3 of which you spend asleep, 1/3(approx.) in work related activity and 1/3 supposedly for yourself. The reason you spend 1/3 of the time working is to improve the quality of your other 2/3.

Draw up some sort of budget in which you set aside 10% of every paycheck for investment purposes and make sure you pay yourself first ahead of everything and anyone else, includung utilities, rent and car payments and if this means cutting back on beer with the boys, so be it. This applies to dating as well. Once you have a few bucks in the bank you are going to attract a better class of company anyway. Do not have a joint account with anyone, especially a wife. You never know when a marriage can go sour and in the event of a divorce you won't have to share anything that can't be found offshore. This little feature also helps to prevent you being sued by anyone; they can't seize what they can't find. I am speaking of this through a very hard lesson, bitterly learned.

You might even want to go so far as having your statements and records delivered to a P.O. Box. Wives can be nosey little critters and for God's sake keep all your passwords private and secure and not on your computer, unless properly encrypted.

I think that should cover most of the basics for now.

Remember this as well. Some people gamble by playing the horses. The ones who are successful and take the least risk are the skilled handicappers. I like to watch the horses but don't do it seriously; the stock, futures and options markets are my chosen field to gamble and I've worked hard to become a better than average handicapper. Remember this, as well, it isn't necessary to be a millionaire, to live like one but it sure helps.

edited to add "unless properly encrypted"

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by ontheropes

I saw the erosion of American manufacturing capacity going on even when I was working to become a Journeyman Mold Maker in the late 70?s. I?ve had a lot of discussions with my co-workers about the future of the manufacturing industry. As long as they had a job, most of them didn?t care. If they?re employed today they probably still don?t care or don?t want to think about it. I know that many of my former peers have to work for less per hour today than they made in the 90?s.
I think Mr. Phillips has been paying attention and it looks like his book would be a good read.

by oneamazingwriter

and didn't get any wiser from there, sleepin'dawg.Being rejected by ignorant people is fine with me. You don't like nice and I have no love for rude, crude or grossly immature. Name calling, bullying, and the like are things that most people outgrew in gradeschool, sleepin'dawg.I've addressed you and others here with respect as adults. That you cannot relate to that says who you are, not who I am. I speak only for myself. I don't look for groups of people to stand behind me so that I say "we". I am reminded of the insecure "cliques" of school days. Some people apparently don't have enough convinction to stand alone.

by maxwell edison

......is fine with me as well.

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=192945&messageID=1999057

"Dawg, acceptance does not mean resignation. A lot of people seem to have the two confused."
- OAW

Well, OAW, conversation does not mean discussion. You seem to have the two confused.

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=192945&messageID=1999038

For the record, I said "discussion" (somewhat synonymous with debate?), not "conversation". And for good reason, perhaps?

But like you said (and something with which I agreed), being rejected by ignorant people is fine with me.

by sleepin'dawg

You were tempted to do the same weren't you??? The only difference might have been, that you would probably have been more polite. :^0

However, judging from her reply, it seems to have passed right over her head. She just seems incapable of grasping the idea that she is an annoying pain in the ass and that all her comments are useless inanities. She thinks she is "contributing" and in a sense she is. She's making herself a target for ridicule but is making it almost too easy.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by sleepin'dawg

From day one you have annoyed me. That's me, nobody else. I put it down to the fact that I've never been overly fond of anyone trying to get or be cutsy with me and I tried to politely brush you off, hoping you would take the hint and if not go away, at least you might be smart enough to leave me the hell alone. But no, you persisted and after your peer message of last evening sometime, you have now succeeded in thoroughly pissing me off.

[b]"Being rejected by ignorant people is fine with me. You don't like nice and I have no love for rude, crude or grossly immature. Name calling, bullying, and the like are things that most people outgrew in gradeschool, sleepin'dawg.I've addressed you and others here with respect as adults." [/b]

I'm rude am I??? Damn straight, I am, especially when someone without the sense to realize when they are despised and not wanted keeps insisting on annoying me.

I do object to being called crude because I'm anything but that, except of course, when being unnecessarily provoked by continuous incursions of senseless inanities.

Grossly immature??? How would you define that since not only being older than you, I am aware of when my presence is unwanted and/or undesirable and I [b]always have the common decency and curtesy to take leave of a situation where presence isn't wanted.[/b] I would say, don't let the knob hit you in the ass on the way out but that could be construed as being crude and grossly immature now, wouldn't it. So consider it left unsaid but you'll know what I am thinking but then again maybe you won't, seeing as how you've missed all the other polite little indicators which I've left lying around.

I don't like nice??? Sure I do and I like politeness too but I'm very adverse to triteness, stupidity, inane drivel and patronizing condecension from ignorant people. I can't speak for others but at no time have I felt you have addressed me with any respect as an adult. Far from it; all I've perceived from you is meaningless condescending drivel of the most offensive sort that is an insult to anyone of normal or greater intelligence.

[b]"That you cannot relate to that says who you are, not who I am."[/b]

Oh, I definitely liked that one. I should hope no one relates me with being a gassy old windbag, spouting meaningless drivel and who can't catch on that she's perceived as nothing but a pest. You're right I can't relate to that but you are totally wrong about the other part because that is precisely what you are.

[b]"Being rejected by ignorant people is fine with me.[/b]

Well finally something in which we concur.

In closing I am includung something from a post of yours from some time ago in another thread:

[b]"Those who don't walk what they talk would bless the world by shutting up."[/b]

I don't know about elsewhere but around here, I don't see you walking at all but you sure do talk up a storm. However, you should know I perceive you as crawling on your hands and knees, sucking up to anyone for a kind word. Now why don't you just try to be "nice" and crawl on out of here; mind you don't let the knob hit you in the ass and please close the door behind you. Even the lingering odour of you is offensive.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by sleepin'dawg

That's rich. I'm ROTFLMAO. :D
Well you see, she did annoy me. I didn't set out after her; she came after me. With any luck I've seen the last of her, definitely via peer message anyway. :^0

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by ontheropes

Now that I've had a minute to think about it, how about writing a letter to my ex?

edit to add had

by sleepin'dawg

once you fire off one of my missives, there is seldom any chance of retreat. Now your ex doesn't bother me too much but letters to your senator or congressman could result in you being visited by The Department of Homeland Security and if it's to your president, forget it. Who wants to be visited by both Homeland Security and The Secret Service.

BTW have you ever noticed when they're running about with their shades on and their earpieces, they don't appear to be too secretive. Sort of makes them stand out, somewhat.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by ontheropes

I can picture my house being surrounded by State Troopers so that idea's out. One problem though, I?d have a tough time deciding which of my 3 ex?s should get the letter. Do you have a bulk-rate or maybe you could write a generic letter?

My Uncle is retired from the Secret Service. He?s in his 90?s now and still looks like a Fed even when wearing his pajamas. It?s weird.

by sleepin'dawg

What 1AW couldn't grasp is that I didn't care in the least about her and her trite, inane, cloyingly sweet, touchy-feely opinions. I didn.t ask for her comments and opinions nor did I at any time seek her out to ask for them. I tried ignoring her and when that didn't work I tried sarcasm, rather blunt sarcasm at that. Nothing seemed to work but when she invaded my privacy by brining her drivel directly at me in a pm, I felt insulted and took umbrage. Why she felt the need to send me a peer message I'll never know nor do I particularly care but I would bet my last dollar that she wishes she hadn't done so, now. I do not know where she has gone but I hope she stays there and if she ever crosses my path again she can expect more of the same. She wants to persistently annoying??? Fine by me; I can be equally persistent with nasty agressiveness. She needed putting in her place; so that's what I did.

BTW for one who claims to be an amazing writer, she has a very limited vocabulary and a poor sense of sentence structure.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by jdclyde

it is 1UNaw. Because nothing I have seen here was very amazying. Although we had better watch out because now that he has the idea, Julian might try to claim a similar name for himself! :^0

2aw? ;\

by sleepin'dawg

take him severely to task at times but at no time has he ever offended me to the point that 1AW did. I can even foresee receiving a peer message form him on just about any topic, because I think Julian would be trying to dicuss something or other, which he takes seriously and/or something of a technical nature. I am almost dead certain Julian would never invade my privacy in an effort to blow sunshine up my kilt and so his choice of topic would need to pretty extreme before I'd take any offence.

1AW never caught on to that and blithely thought she was loved and admired by all and we should all be welcoming of her. As I have said elsewhere, the lady was a few bricks short of a load, a flake missing its blizzard but her cloyingly trite sweetness was repellant to me and I tried to divert and drive her away. The fact that she doesn't have a clue, resulted in what she got.

Julian, if you are reading this, then you will know you have my respect as an individual if not in some of your actions. I think it is safe to say we can agree to disagree, pointedly at times, without taking undue offense but you must understand, I seldom backdown or apologize and I will push my point across. Feel free to do the same; and yup, we'll swap flames occassionly too. :^0

BTW after all this, you can now probably better understand your lady doctor's reaction. What you did out of feelings of thankfullness and goodwill towards all mankind, was perceived as a 1AW type of move and she responded accordingly. She thought you were making a come-on. I hope you were suitably apologetic and able to explain yourself, so as to smooth things over.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by sleepin'dawg

relationship can do is to dicuss finances and arrive at an agreed upon division before establishing any formalized arrangements. I have seen relationships founder on those very shoals. If you have some serious questions confounding you, feel free to pm me; while touchy about my privacy I promise not to render you asunder with a 1AW type of response. If you are asking sincere questions I will endeavour to provide sincere responses.

I don't hesitate in the sharing of my information because many others provided me with information while I was acquiring what I have. I am a big believer in what goes around, comes around. You may one day be in my position and be in a position to provide helpful information to someone else struggling to protect themselves and establish financial independence. If that day should come I would hope that you would remember this and pass it on. The world can be a schitty place at times and when you pass on a chance to help someone, it only makes it a little bit more schitty. I mean this in an informational sense not from a monetary viewpoint.

Charity is more often than not counterproductive; solid, informed and intelligent information is the real gold. Knowledge really is power, and while it can sometimes be mind-numbing, it really isn't rocket science.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by jdclyde

:D

I can think of a certain person that used to be in my life that is just digging a deeper and deeper hole with her whole life. Retirement? Not going to happen for that one!

She STILL is focusing her life around her blazer with a bluebook value of 10K and a loan payoff of 22K (that she was just in an accident with, her fault). Now she is talking about wanting a Harley. Too friggen funny.

Here latest boyfriend (I only refer to him as trey because he is number three, no matter who I am talking to ]:) ) is a "laid off trucker". Sorry, but in Michigan, the only truckers that aren't working are the ones that aren't any good. (oh this is fun to watch). He will run for the hills once he finds out her level of debt. At the time of the split, her debt level was right around 70K. (real smart time to leave, huh? :^0 )

While I don't approve of her dragging a train of guys in and out of the boys lives (and Thing Two did start having anger issues about the time she was taking the boys and spending the weekend at a different guys place. Connection? oh yeah.)

So in almost every case, I agree with what you have said about helping people and reminding them to later on help others. Makes the world a better place. This one is too much fun to watch go under. What was the old show, lady is over the side of the boat yelling for a lifesaver, so the guy throws her a piece of candy? ;\

"Best revenge, is to do better without that person than you did with that person." - a wise sage! B-)

by sleepin'dawg

[b]Live long and prosper[/b] He should have added the kicker; [b]It's the ultimate [i]revenge[/i][/b] Judging by my ex-wifes reaction whenever we meet, I know this is true.

This, however, underlines my reasons of separation of finances. Each partner should contribute to the support of the household but each should maintain their own exclusive financial situation in complete and total confidence.

You, better than most, can understand why.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by too old for it

I heard some tlaking head the other day with a stat that the trucking industry, on average, has 130% turnover, and something north of 5% of the rolling stock parked on any given day due to lack of drivers.

One would think that some serious changes to the pay and work/lifestyle balance would be in order there.

by jardinier

I can only guess that it was largely the photo of the hirsute female that got your "knickers in a knot" about me.

While we are being nice to each other I will say that I have an enormous respect for your broad general knowledge and your ability to express yourself in words.

Ironically our common enemy of "OAW" has served to bring together some of us who were previously suspicious or critical of each other.

And yes I explained to the lady doctor how I had become in the habit of hugging people through my association with the New Age people.

I now see a youngish male doctor at the same medical centre. He has a jovial manner and has been gradually weaning me off the medication that was required when I was sent into hospital with heart failure (water on the lung) in January 2004.

A blood test this week revealed that all my body chemicals were now within the normal (healthy) range, on about one fifth of the medication that I was on when I left hospital. He has acknowledged that yes, it appeared that my heart (leaking mitral valve) is healing itself.

by tig2

I find myself in the odd position of being perceived as the potential "bad person" in my relationship because he makes marginally more $$ than I do and for reasons of proximity, we live in his residence, not mine. His accounts are significantly more healthy than mine but we had VERY different agendas- his was to prepare for retirement, mine was centered around LIVING to retirement. But it puts me in the position of doing everything I can to protect him from me.

Kinda bites- we both strongly believe that this will be the last personal relationship that either of us enter in to.

And Dawg- we handle it in just the way you describe- His is his, mine is mine, the household benefits from each of us equally. This is not a problem.

Where I get confounded is that I have expended a mass of energy and $$ on living to retirement age- there is a real chance that I will do so. But I am still frightfully exposed and can't really save without the potential of losing everything.

I am still wading through the wealth of information you passed along and trying to determine how best to proceed within the limitations that I have to manage to. I feel it only fair that if I ask questions, they be intellegent questions.

The best revenge is living well. That will do for now.

by sleepin'dawg

If you really feel the need don't be afraid to ask. At the moment I've gone and done something wierd to my back, so I won't be straying too far afield, for the moment. I can think of worse thing to do than answer your questions, so feel free to send me a pm and ask as many questions as you would like. I'll do my best to give you intelligent answers if I can and if I can't I will probably be able to point you in the direction to where you can find the answers.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by maxwell edison

Can't we all just get along? What the world needs now is love, sweet love. We're all brothers and sisters in spirit, and we all need to care for one another. After all, inside, we're all the same color. Imagine all the people living life in peace, with no need for greed or hunger, a real brotherhood of man sharing all the world. Then, it really will be a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

Let there be peace on Earth and we can discover where have all the flowers gone. Everything is beautiful and we can all make it a better world if we make love, not war. There is only one people. We are one and the same. We are all one spirit. We are all one name. And yes, bring joy to the world because we shall overcome.

We need to do it for the children; and as we all know, it takes a village to raise a child. You may call me a dreamer, 'dawg. But I'm not the only one. And I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one.

See, I really do care.

by maxwell edison

You should get in-touch with your inner-child. You should feel the love. You should become a part of the brotherhood of man. Peace, brother.

by gadgetgirl

You got me with that one. Have you any idea how far water can travel when drinking and giggling at the same time? No? - well, pass me the monitor wipes, kleenex and keyboard cleaner all in one go....

Max, you sarcastic personification you, that was hilarious.

Thanks for making my morning!! :D

GG

by jdclyde

I rip off a song and you call it an "earwig". Max does it and it is hilarious. :(

We see how you are getting...... ;\

:x

by sleepin'dawg

Considering the source that was hilarious but for a moment there, I thought I was reading a 1AW type of post. LOL :^0

Give me a break Max. My back is giving me hell and it really hurts when I laugh that hard.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by jdclyde

What ever you do, don't be TOO nice to the dawg! Especially early in the morning! :0 ;\

Just throw him a biscuit and he will be nice! :D

[i]
"Now remember students, there are no stupid questions, Only stupid people". - Mr Garison
:^0

by gadgetgirl

it was his version of a sickly sweet reply that made me have a muttleyfit, and mess up my immaculate working area......

]:)

GG

by maecuff

Be careful about giving advice regarding finding your inner child. I located mine once, his name is Jason and he wears a hockey mask.

by too old for it

sleepin'dawg bravely assumes (a) that American corporate executives ever gave a damn about anyone in an economic class below theirs; (b) that today's corporate "strategic thinking" extends any further than this coming Friday's "earnings guidance"; and, (c) that "shareholder value" is anything except code-speak for "destroy the middle class in America".

As long as there is no draconian penalty for doing so, they will naturally gravitate to the cheapest source of labor on the planet, all the while fattening their own paycheck, perks, and golden parachutes.

I'd like to see some major hiring initiatives here in the US, but I seriously don't see it as long as we desire to maintain a thriving middle class. Put another way, we don't have to meet India slum-for-slum, begger-urchin-for-begger-urchin before massive hiring will come back to the states. We will have to surpass India, China, Vietnam or ANYWHERE else in levels of poverty before these same corporate executives will deign to "right-shore" jobs back home.

by sleepin'dawg

First this was not meant as any criticism of corporate ethics but in answer to part (a) of your post, I would ask you, "Why should they?" The corporate executive's first and sole duty is his responsibility to the investors and/or shareholders of his company.

I would also say you are as wrong again in part (b) as you are in part (a). It is the corporate executives duty to prolong as much as possible the earning cycle to maximize profits/earnings for the shareholders and investors. To do otherwise would be malfeasance and fraud.

In regard to part (c) how do you interpret "shareholder value" as code-speak for "destroy the middle class in America". Shareholders invest to gain value and earnings and there is absolutely no requirement that they needst be altruistic. We are discussing individual investments here not the Community Chest. Without investors and shareholders companies would fold or not exist.

From what I can gather from your post, you seem to resent investors and there right to retain their assets and what those assets are earning. Your attitude towards investors reeks of socialism if not communism.

Next thing we know, you will be calling for the workers to unite and down with the capitalists, which is your right, of course but a rather silly ambition given the observable results of the fall of communism since 1989. There are always going to be some who will suffer because they will sit on their hands and wait for big government to protect them. Sadly that very kind of protection could well cost them everything they own.

You have to understand the corporate executive; he is an individual who eats and breathes much as you do and he is obliged to his masters, the boards of directors and/or executive review committees. These represent the interests of the investors and shareholders and if he is found lacking in the performance of his duties for them, he will be replaced. At which point he might not maintain his standard of living,quite so handsomely. That is his primary and sole concern not any fairy tale, pie-in the-sky considerations for those, poor, poor downtrodden workers. Workers, unless highly skilled BTW are not in the middle class per se, which is too broad a classification with different strata of upper, lower and middle classes, all within the "middle class" which you do not seem to recognize. A lot but not all of the upper and middle strata of this class, invest as do a fair number of the lower middle class. What would you have them do??? Curb their expectations in the name of patriotism or nationalism??? Or, God forbid, altruism???

What you suggest smacks of rampant isolationism which America moved far beyond in the aftermath of World War II. It didn't work prior to that and it would not work now in the current global economy. In this day and age, the concept would be disastrous if not self destructive and if anything America is not that.

My thread was meant as a warning to [b]individuals[/b] that a market upheaval is inevitable. The economy is not a tree that will grow to the sky and like all trees, since the beginning of time, is subject to the forces of nature. My warning is meant for those who are invested, so that they can commence positioning themselves in the most appropriate way they can, to protect their assets and maintain whatever level of financial independence they may have. It was not aimed at those who have no asset value and no investments. Those in that position, sad to say, are a lost cause, as they always have been and always will be.

My suggestion is also meant for these people to position themselves to avoid the worst of the onslaught of the taxation that inevitably follows such upheavals. It is illegal to evade taxes; [b][i] but it is not illegal to avoid taxes[/i][/b]

I can almost guarantee you are going to get your wish of the workers uniting; they will, to elect a Democrat government and you can then take satisfaction in watching them "destroy the middle class in America" as they tax it to its knees. Your wishes and dreams will be thus, fulfilled. Any left standing will look with envy upon their friends and neighbours who had the foresight to protect themselves.

Not possible you say??? Go back and reread the article. It has happened before and it will inevitably happen again and again and again.

[b][i] Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history, will be condemned to repeat them.[/i][/b]

As the book mentioned in the article clearly shows, this has happened many times in the past and as long as a collective hubris can exist it will continue to happen, not only to us but those who follow us. If nothing else remember this; the study of economics is and always has been, the study of failure. Only on the individual level can steps be taken to avoid the worst aspects. I personally think we may very well be in for a depression the likes of which will make the Great Depression of the thirties pale in comparison. I fully expect the next ten or twelve years to be very bumpy indeed. But then again, you can place your trust in fate, it might not happen for another ten years and may be never happen but do you really want to take that gamble. Right now the overheated derivative markets only need a minor hiccup to make them come crashing down and I seriously think that this time they will bring down the stock and commodity markets with them. This almost happened in the nineties and regardless of what safeguards are now in place it will eventually happen again.

Frankly, I don't give a damn whether anyone heeds my warning or not, I know I'm going to take some sort of a hit to a certain extent but I've already got my plan in place and I should and expect to come through it with most of my assets intact. Can you say as much???

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by rob mekel

As previous said; I still care. Although I didn't read the book of Phillips you mentioned, Dawg, I read an article in a Dutch newspaper in 2001 (http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Lab/Profiel/Erven/goudeneeuw.html do remind that the "miljard" mentioned in this article is the same amount as billiard in the USA and our "biljard" is 1000 x your billiard)
That refers to a book of Jonathan Israel, "The Dutch Republic" with subtitle: Its Rise, Greatness, and Fall 1477-1806, this for lessons learned part.

The article in the Dutch news paper brings the point that The Netherlands faces an other decline due to enormous heaps of saved money and a country full of people living off one?s investments. Money that seemingly is laying still and not giving the interest as it should do. Ergo this capital will flow to countries with more risk on investments but higher interest. (better ROI, does it sound familiar?)
That's why our government adjusted some rules to prevent de-capitalization of the Netherlands and so fare with success.

And yes I do care as I voted for the government that made that possible, with the right balance to society.

Will the USA learn, I do hope so!

Rob

edited for typo

by sleepin'dawg

it isn't quite similar enough. I'm going to try throwing it at a translation program; I think Dutch -> German will be a good start since I can handle reading German if not, then then I'll try Dutch -> English and see what I get.

Somehow though, I have a feeling you aren't getting quite what I meant because from what I understand, you are telling me that it is a good thing for your government to restrict the movement of your own money. From where I sit, that's a formula for disaster, maybe not for your nation but definitely for you as an individual.

It is fine to be patriotic but it won't bring you much joy or comfort when you are standing in the bread line at the soup kitchen as the goverment whittles away at your savings and assets.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by jdclyde

Long hours on the road, being away from friends and families if you are a long-haul trucker, and lots of stress depending on your load.

And I have talked to several truckers AND people that hire truckers. [b]The only drivers that are not working are the ones that either do not WANT to work OR the ones that CAN'T work because of points, drugs, drinking, or just a bad employee.[/b]

It is too early to tell which this clown is, but I think I will be talking to my lawyer to find out if they guy has a crimial record. Freedom of information act, I love you! I would do a background check of each and every guy she drags in front of my boys.

The pay is good, so that is not the factor of the burnout.

I also don't know (yet) if he is an independent or if he is teamster.

by sleepin'dawg

Hang on to your hats, this is only the beginning. I could be wrong of course, but this looks to be only a minor correction, I still expect the worst to hit in the fall sometimes. You're 401Ks may very well be at risk, if not eliminated, if you don't know what you are doing as regards protecting your assets. You will be unable to rely on fixed pensions; witness what the airlines have done to their employees' plans. Other companies have done it or are planning to do it as well. We may actually be watching the end of retirement, as we have always thought of it. We may all have to work for much longer than we ever anticipated.

http://tinyurl.com/jqvus

Don't waste anymore time. Start getting help now; failing that, start educating yourselves. You do not want to depend solely on social security for your retirement. It wasn't really designed for that pupose.

As I said, there is no need for panic yet; this is going to rollercoaster several times over the next few months but I do not like what I am looking at after September.

At the moment conditions are worse now than they were in 1987; the CPI is overly volatile with many of the currencies and precious metals opening to limit moves an d the foreclosure rates are rising towards a point in excess of the S&L scandal at its height. Fortunes can be made but many more will be lost and this time around it won't be S&Ls but some of the big banks taking a hit.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by tig2

I have been coasting today but it appears that is a bad plan. I personally don't worry too much- I don't have much. My partner could get hit pretty hard. We have had a few discussions about some of the things you have discussed. The problem I am having- completely unexpected- is that he doesn't see that he needs to be protected from me. His response is "I trust you". I appreciate his trust but also know that if I get another negative diagnosis and he and I are linked, he could be wiped out. Survival on a very basic level would become a problem for both of us.

So how do I convince a loving, intellegent, wonderful man that protecting himself from me is the most important thing he can do? I am seriously open to suggestions- this is one of the many reasons that I didn't date much after I divorced and not at all after my first little trip down the rabbit hole. All input is welcome!

Edited because i am about to take Maxwell's hammmer to this $%^&*$#@% keyboard!

by sleepin'dawg

I would say you are completely right on this score. Something else to be considered is what amount of assets are involved, yours and/or his. There is a point where you would only acquire diminishing returns and that is or would be contra-indicated to many of my ideas but not all of them. One thing you need to do is to find out what yours and his responsibilities would be under communitiy property for your state. Another thing might be that you would each wish to have what is called a living will. Bottom line, unless I knew what state you are living in, I would hesitate in offering advice.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

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