General discussion


Does it realy matter?

By rrgilmore_2001 ·
I think things should matter and some should not.
I agree with a background check, but I do not agree with what matters. What matters are embezzlement, theft, and violence? What do you think matters?
Do you think it is right to hold the past of a person against them, Should a person be punished more than once for a crime?
If you think turning someone down because of there
Record is not punishment; it is punishment comes in many forms.
Why should a highly qualified person be turned down forthe job ,if they have a drug conviction?
What does it matter misdemeanor or felonies you still got in trouble.
I just don't get it.
Where is the logic behind it?

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It often matters

by James R Linn In reply to Does it realy matter?

Would you want a habitual drug user as:
The pilot of the plane you are riding.
The operator of the nuclear plant beside your house.
The person driving the 18 wheel truck full of gasoline.

I know I don't. And while not conclusive, a drug conviction is often an indication of habitual use - how many users break the habit successfully? And a drug selling conviction is far worse.

Many IT jobs give people access to all sorts of confidential data. You need to hire people for these positions who can be trusted not to abuse their access to others data. In the last two jobs I have had I had to have security clearance - not only no criminal convictions, but no bankruptcies.

Now there are mitigating factors - if there was one conviction along time ago, and lots of evidence of good work and a clean record since, depending on the nature of the job, I might be inclined to consider such an applicant.

But in areas where security is a concern, where information needs to be absolutely secret - I can understand why they would consider a drug conviction.


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It does matter

by road-dog In reply to It often matters

I believe that a person's background DOES matter.

An employee represents his employer and is custodian of the employer's reputation. This being the case, if I were hiring and had a pool of applicants for a position, an individual with a conviction for drug use, posession, or dealing would automatically be weeded out.

Why risk a company's reputation on someone with a record of bad judgement? Likewise, a person with an other than honorable discharge from the armed forces should not make it past stage one of the hiring process.

As a small businessman, I think that the attitude presented in the original posting is indicative of the mindset that I would not want in an employee. Rather than asking advice on how to overcome a bad record, rrgilmore chooses to complain about the unfairness of the system.

rrgilmore should be asking how to convince a prospective company that he has learned from his mistakes and assure them that he is of the proper character for the job.

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by Packratt In reply to It does matter

You should know that there is no convincing anyone that you can be a good employee, especially people like you who could never understand what it's like to not have everything handed to you. You are full of it and you know it, you just wanted to take this opportunity to spew a little about how your some big bad boss and how you have all this power to decide who earns dinner for their family and who starves.

You are a small minded and utterly corrupt fool. You epitomise that which is most despised about businessmen.

Here's how I can tell that you are full of it you hypocritical jerk. You say that a person with a record is AUTOMATICALLY weeded out. Then you have the cajones to say that this person should ask how to convince a prospective company otherwise.

Typical double talking, lying businessman. Thanks for demonstrating that for me.

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Read and Heed

by road-dog In reply to BS


Let me clarify a few things. There are lots of companies in America, mine is just one. The hiring practices of other companies does not concern me.

I've had NOTHING "handed to me". I'm the son of a carpet installer and the grandson of a cab driver. I Joined the Marine Corps 8 days after my 18th birthday because I had 0.nada chance of affording college.

I've gotten where I am due to my efforts. Opportunity doesn't knock, its the point where preparation and circumstance intersect.

If you and your family starve, its not because some "big bad boss" wills it, it is because of your own shortcomings. If you seek the cause of your problems, look into the mirror.

You call me corrupt, yet you are the one who feels "entitled" to opportunity. Therein lies true corruption, the assumption that you are entitled to co-opt a paycheck from an employer because you justify it in your own bitter "reality".

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Heed this...

by Packratt In reply to Read and Heed

Entitlement works both ways, just because you OWN a business does not make you ENTITLED to all the money it earns UNLESS you are the only one working there! Seems that all of you people who scream and moan about the poor wanting entitlements think that the world owes you everything just because you were lucky enough to gain ownership of something that requires the labor of others to make successful. Seems that you also think that those who you employ owe you cheap labor and their share of the profits too.

Talk to me about entitlements, sheesh, you fell for the standard republican spiel.

As a worker I am entitled to a fair share of that which I do for the company for which I work, and that is all that I feel entitled to. But we don't get that even because of shrews like you. Because of myopic know-it-all fools like you we have to deal with this constant employee vs employer stigmas and derision. You think we're all lazy and want everything for free where we just want to earn a decent living doing something that is appreciated.

You know, as well as I, that you do represent the common attitude of business owners and managers today, so don't give me that crap about other companies being more compassionate than you are and that makes up for your intolerance. Again, I say that you are the prime example of all that is wrong with businessmen.

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Don't curse the darkness, Light a match!

by road-dog In reply to Heed this...


There is a fundamantal difference between an employee and a partner. An employee agrees through beginning employment to sell his skills and time for $X.00 per manhour. He has not been pressganged off the street and can leave for the "better deal" at any time. If the company tanks, the employee is out of a job, and nothing else.

On the other hand, a partner assumes RISK as well as reward. Shareholders are partners in this respect. They invest money and time to build a company.So, if you're a handyman and a homeowner contacts you to paint a house. You agree on a price, but you think its a little low, but it is all that the homeowner is going to pay you to do it. The job gets done, you are paid the agreed amount for the job. If the homeowner sells that house for $X.00 amount of profit, how much of that are you entitled to?

It is the same thing in business.

If you don't like it, start your own company. (it can be done on a shoestring, I did it). Invest your OWN time, effort and money. (at the expense of your own immediate enjoyment and those extras for your family) Spend nights worrying about accounts receivable, making payroll, and finding & financing the next job. After all the effort, I'm sure that you would see things differently.

Whine about circumstances, wish things were better.

Work, make a job if you cannot find one, Build a company.

This BB is full of folks who have "been there & done that". Instead of picking their minds for tips on how to be successful in our chosen vocation, you choose to use this forum to spout your socialist wannabe gripes and fantasies. Learn from this forum, it has a lot to offer.

A final observation..
If you're worth $X.00 per hour as an employee, you are worth $X.00 + $0.00 per hour if your wife is sick, you had a crappy childhood, or even if Karl Marx said differently..

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by Packratt In reply to Don't curse the darkness, ...

people who can afford to invest in a business by owning one or being a partner have NO RISK. Again, I ask you to point me to one of these mythical beings that were once CEOs and are now poor. NONE EXIST! There is no risk because these people have vast resources and if the company tanks they can buy another one or leach on someplace else to ruin more lives for their own benefit. This bs about partners and owners deserving all the pie because of some nonexistant risk is assinine.

Just look at Enron, the executives ruined everything and they got hundreds of millions, hardly a risk. The employees lost life savings and retirements and livelyhoods, theirs was the risk, they had the most to lose! Again, you are full of it!

Again, another manager who insists I am some socialist or communist just because I don't fall for the rich jerk lines and lies. We accept to sell huge portions of our lives because that is all the choice we have because of jerks like you insisting that we owe you theworld just because you are a businessman when you would be NOTHING without our hard work.

I never insisted that the government give everyone handouts for nothing. All I do is insist that jerks like you give your fair share to the people off who'sbacks you make your fortunes. Yet you and your kind refuse and workers socialists.

Again, I still say that you are showing me the worst side of the businessman, you give me the reasons why you and your ilk should be despised.

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by Rob Thomas In reply to It often matters

Great answer James.

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mitigating factors

by rrgilmore_2001 In reply to It often matters

How long is long enough? 2,4,6,years or moore?
You ask how many users brake the habbit, only the one's who want to do.
mitigating factors you say? They do not care I know this for a fact.
You are worried about security of information.
1 to talk about anything confidential would be unethnical.
2 the information is no ones buissness, except who has the right to use it.
3 who would jeperdise there career for whatever is going on in your head?

Not me no way

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if I were you

by PTW In reply to mitigating factors

rrgilmore_2001, I would try to ensure that no prospective employer sees your submissions on this.
You display an haphazardness of mind, and lack of logic that would definitley count against you, regardless of your criminal/non-criminal status.

Iagree that some things should matter, and some should not. People should be accountable for their actions. I am aware that a person with an apparently clean record, may just have been lucky so far. A person with a record has an extra 'intelligence item' built in, because an employer is aware of something in their past and can (and will) judge them accordingly. That judgement should be tempered by the hopeful employee's behaviour since then, taking into account time lapse and so on.
However, drugs bring in an entirely different aspect again.
It is an incredibly complex arena, and I look forward to the wealth of postings there are bound to be.

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