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don't waste our time

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by cavedweller

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

Are you tired of taking the time to answer someone's question and getting a rejection with a comment "My real question was something different."

For example, this recently submitted question in the NT forum: Services for Macintosh on NT Workstation, Is there a way to load "Services for Macintosh" on an NT Workstation?

It doesn't appear in the default list of available services.

And the comment: From Susu on 03/12/01 11:23 AM EST: Sorry, I should have clarified my request. . .

I am trying to share a printer that is attached to an NT Workstation machine.

I already have file sharing up and running on a Server machine.

Another question that comes to mind ws just an error message with no explanation of what the requestor was either doing or trying to accomplish.

------------------------------------
If you want the answer to your problem then you have to ask for what you need.

If you can't do that then DON'T WASTE OUR TIME!

22 replies

by generalist

Solving a problem can be a reiterative process. You state what you know and often forget that there are a lot of assumptions that need to be put on the table. That leads to the 'I should have clarified my request' statement.

It is something that you have to live with if you're doing any sort of tech support.

At the same time, if you mentioned all the assumptions you knew about, the postings would be so long that others would complain that you're wasting their time.

What type of balance is best?

by edward clint

There is such a thing as *relevant* details. Converesly there is such a thing as irrelevent information. A tech worth his salt should always have some idea what these are, when presenting a problem. They should as least make an effort.

What our angry friend here is complaining about, is a total lack of such efforts.

-Ed

by generalist

I'm not sure that there was a total lack of relevancy in the first example that was provided.

The requestor had a solution in mind relative to the Mac and was looking for the steps to implement that solution if it existed. It appears that the answer they got didn't address their ultimate goal so they clarified it with additional info. The printer install part of that info was quite relevant. The file sharing part was somewhat less relevant, though it might not be called completely irrelevant.

It would have been nice if the requestor had originally stated that they wanted to know about the Mac services in order to share a printer. But sometimes you are so focused on a problem and a proposed solution that you forget that others don't have the same info.

On the other hand, the second example definitely points out his issue with not wasting people's time. An error message without any explanation is worse than useless and falls firmly within the complaint.

by anthonybernardino

I'm familliar with NT server serving up for MAC, but NT workstation is another story. I don't think SERVICES is the avenue to pursue in this matter. I haven't done this kind of work for 4 years now, i.e. MAC/NT, but I can possibly direct you to a path. There are some basics that needs to be clarified:

1.) Mac has something called SEEDING. It's a type of IP addressing for MACs.

2.) There's a Apple Talk Zone that needs to be identified. In this case, NT has to talk to MAC, MAC doesn't talk to NT. I know it sounds weird, but bare with me. It's a concept that pretty easy to follow.

3.) Then When the 2 systems can see each other through the appletalk zone, Share the Printer in the appletalk zone. From NT server, you can do it from WINFILE. I'm not sure the procedure with Workstation.

4.) In chooser, you can select the printer types, and then the appletalk zone will let you see the available SHARES on the network.

I hope this gets you to the correct direction.If it doesn't, I'd suggest to run an upgrade on that NT workstation to a MEMBER SERVER and then install the MAC services. That should definitely make it work. Best of Luck to you...

by epepke

To some extent, this is true. However, I have noticed people on the technical Q&A rejecting answers (including mine) when I was right, but they wanted answers to more questions. This does not encourage one to be more helpful or engage in the iterative process.

by generalist

This sounds like a version of specification creep. The person wants an answer that covers everything but often finds that the initial question doesn't cover it all.

One possible solution would be to realize that answering one question can resultin having more questions to ask. With that in mind, the person asking the question could assign points as intermediate answers are provided. This might result in lower point values for a single question set but more points rewarded over time.

I'd have to give the process some thought, since question/specification creep is often a fact of life.

by mckaytech

Two of the most difficult things to learn in I.T. are how to ask the right question and how to bring someone up to speed on a subject, starting from where they are and ending with where they want to be. Many people who ask questions here phrase them as best they know how and if we really want to help, we need to help them ask better questions as well as providing technical content.

And this isn't unique to I.T. - have any of you ever had any experience as an auto mechanic? Often, the initial complaint is simply "It isn't working right...".

However, I do have a pet peeve and that is the folks who post a question, get some very direct and pertinent answers to their question and still reject all the answers, presumably so they don't have to give up the points. To me, that just isn't right.

paul

by nichomach

I frankly got very sick of this, to the extent that I hardly wander into the forums anymore. It's just not worth the aggravation. I mean, I don't much give a monkey's about the points, but it's the principle of it.

by generalist

I love your comments on asking the right question and how it isn't unique to IT. Perhaps this topic could lead to an article on questioning strategies.

As far as sticking to the rules and distributing points based on answers, I agree completely with your pet peeve. When people don't obey the rules, they foul things up for everybody else.

Maybe the people answering the questions should rate the questioner in terms of how well they ask the question and how well they distribute the points. That could then be used as a background database to help people decide if they want to answer the questions for a given person.

Now this might be circumvented by changing user IDs when you get a bad rep. But things could be done to factor in the 'newbie' factor too.

by rob k.

This was a reply that I received from some one that I helped out. The points are not important to me, but the principle of it is. It says alot about the person when they do things like this.

From: rkuykendall@benatec-iba.com
Date: 03/08/01 01:55 PM EST
Status: Rejected
Points: 0

When I first started to use a VPN my zonealarm would give the error message that it was unable to connect to the vpn. The fix that I used was to setup zonealarm to allow the connection. You want to add a host and then the IP address of that host. This solved my problem.

Hope this helps.

Rob K.
If you have any questions you can e-mail me.

From rkuykendall@benatec-iba.com on 03/08/01 01:58 PM EST: You can setup zone alarm by clicking onthe configure button and then click on add then host.

Sorry i forgot this in first post

Rob K.

From RockyG on 03/12/01 08:42 AM EST: Thats exactly what I did, and now it is working. Thanks.

By the way RockyG I am glad that I could be of assistance to you.

by jedah

Is usually my first approach, and know that most users have the same problems..
Lately our investments team, calls have increased, I think it's due to the lowsy stock market. So you should pay special attention to the individual problems..
And be paitent.. :-]

by wstagl

My company is currently developing a Web-based conferencing and collaboration tool. I'm wondering whether companies prefer a hosted pay-per-use model, or if the tried-and-true server software license model is still valid. What do you think? Where would your pricepoint fall?

BTW, if you're interested, sign up for the Beta at www.linktivity.com

by mckaytech

My previous complaint about points notwithstanding, the biggest benefit of participating in these forums is the chance to learn what works and what doesn't and why.

More than once, I've offered a proposed solution and been surprised to find that it didn't work for the person who asked the question. If they had not been gracious enough to let me know that, I'd be at risk for continuing to give advice that doesn't work and there is no future in that.

But I've also received some really coolnotes in response to suggestions that did work, and often those notes have had additional useful information.

The feedback, positive or negative, has far more value than the points and I'm okay with someone withholding the points and instead sending a few words of comment. What I object to is people who post and then categorically reject every answer regardless of merit and without any comment as to why. I feel like they've shown no respect for the value of the time I've invested in thinking about, and answering, their question.

paul

by generalist

I like the statement 'Definitely cool to say thank you'. It, in my opinion, touches on a topic that too many people ignore.

Feedback, positive or negative, helps people learn. If that feedback has a positive spin to it, even if it says that your solution won't work, you feel good about it. Civil feedback works.

Uncivil feedback, like the person who calls you a moron because 'everybody knows that won't work', isn't desirable though. And, when you get down to it, not responding to things is a form of uncivil feedback.

There is, however, the potential problem of 'thank you' spam. A discussion thread could easily double in size if the person with the problem thanked everybody. Of course that could be remedied with a private e-mail or a general 'Thank You' at the end of the discussion thread.

by mckaytech

I appreciated your comment about Thank You Spam and think that the most appropriate way to show thanks is a quick comment with your rating or, for a job especially well done, by private e-mail.

paul

by rob k.

Definitely uncool to say thank you, your solution worked but I going to reject your answer. Just so I can keep my points.

These are the types of people that need to work for themselves and have a customer say "Hey thanks for fixing my problem but I am not going to pay you because I want to keep my money."

One of the reasons that I got into the IT field is because the IT professional is not stingy with the knowledge that they have. If you do not know something, chances are that someone else does. If they help you, well sometime in the future you will help them. Same way with the points but the help that returned is coming in the way of the points.

Let me say it this way.
If you help someone and then when you ask them to help you and you know that they have the answer but they refuse to help you. Are you gonna help them the next time?
Maybe yes but if the help is a one way street are you gonna want to travel that road all of the time.

Sorry for a long message but this thing with excepting the answer but refusing to dish out the points really gets me steamed.

Rob K.

by zlatin zlatev

I was a newbee to TechRepublic when I've posted my first question. I have mistaken the area of the question and have not formulated it clearly and explicitly.
I got a lot of answers, but they we're not what I need from. I'm sorry for annoying theirauthors but... I will not give points for such answer(s).

On the other hand I have given answers that are yet not rated or are rejected without explanation.

Well, I think it may be normal for such a cyber-space as TechRepublic. And I agree with that the things may be different if there are some kind of rules... but all of you that want such rules, please remember that "laws are made to be broken".

Regards,
Zlatin Zlatev,
Mentor Programmer & Software Engineer,
JEI-Bulgaria

by mckaytech

I'm not sure whether I agree with the premise that "laws are made to be broken". But I am sure I disagree that we should accept more boorish behavior in cyberspace than is acceptable in our own workspace regardless of our perception of what is the norm.

It's not about rules, really, nor is it really about points. It's about respecting the efforts of people who are trying to help. For myself, I have committed to award points for those answers that help me clarify my thoughts and ask better questions. But I see that as a choice to be made on an individual level and not as the outcome of an arbitrary set of rules.

regards!

paul

by highlander718

Everybody make mistakes, especiallly when maybe English is not the mother language (defending myself here). I'm also frustrated by people who closes questions whithout giving the points although there are obviously pertinent answers (not necesarellymine of course) but you can't expect in such a big comunity everyone to be correct or moral. So I'm not using this comunity to get points but to get answers and information from mine or others questions and to answer when I think I now the answer. Although I started to look first to the person profile before answering a question. I mean if he/she rejected 100% of the answers so far it's obvious that I will not give any advice

Tibor
Canada

by generalist

Checking out the person asking a question is a good thing if they have a track record.

It might be useful if TechRepublic could come up with an automated way of tracking questions asked, responses offered, points awarded and award lag time. (Well, maybe they do. I haven't looked extremely closely at the area.)

Of course, this tracking system could be skewed if a person established an identity, collected points and dropped the identity when they didn't need it. But that could also be tracked.

by epepke

I think that iterative points for iterative answers would work nicely. After all, these points don't really mean much--it's not as if a couple of hundred points either way is going to make the difference between being able to eat lunch and not. It's mostly just egoboo.

by donq

I have answered numerous high point questions copying working code and taking the time to carefully articulate reader requirements to insure he/she gets the job done only to find the question AND answer removed with No points awarded. That's just plain dishonest but I'm glad I had the skill to answer, and take the time to explain every rejection.

No Internet forum will be ideal - but Tech Republic is pretty cool and I have certainly been helped by Bob Spellman and a few other Microsoft Access experts. Thank God the user majority is honest - all be it a little confusing at times.

Don Quigg

p.s. I've had more private e-mail thank you messages than point thefts!

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