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Dumb end users

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by cavendish

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Dumb end users are the the product of dumb computer help desk experts giving wrong advice, incomplete advice, assuming knowledge of the novice, and speaking "Geek" to them.

For example after reading the requirements to down load and open your article lampooning dumb end users, and going to the trouble of downloading it, the file wont open because your dumb expert forgot to mention it also requires some sort of unzip program (not on my computer). So have a little sympathy for dumb novices, most dont get any training, most dont get proper service from their dumb help desks.

Just knowing that there is a problem, knowing that there is a question to ask, knowing what question to ask are obvious to the expert, but not obvious to the novice.

This also pervuades computer manuals. What word do I look up in the index to read about solving the problem, that I dont know whether it is a problem.

33 replies

by lytlejeva

I was just looking for a forum topic on this matter. I think the comments made most of the techs do not show any respect for the user at all. How then should the IT community expect any respect from the customer. One of my basic principle is that the user does not have to be a computer geek. Whatever they can do for themselves is great, but they shouldn't have to know how to do everything. Thats what a "help" desk is for. The title of the article is also offensive. The stories are interesting, but users are never dumb, they just don't know as much as the techs should.

by sharib

I agree wholeheartedly. The users are what keeps most of us in jobs. Period. Without users, we aren't needed very much, are we?

Do we know everything about the workings of our car/truck? Can we rebuild it from a pile of parts? Probably not. Does that make us dumb users of automobiles? Does it irritate us when the auto mechanic thinks we are dumb?

Some techs need to do a reality check.

by dumbuser

Finally, an IT pro who gets it! Without the users, IT folks would be out of a job. Most need to learn customer service skills. 1 million digital mojo points for you!

by lordinfidel

You have to look into the mentality of a SysAdmin and then you will know why we think users our dumb.

A good admin keeps his/her users scared to do anything on their own. While we all enjoy a good problem to solve, we don't like solving problems that the users cause themselves because they decided to think on their own.

But if we start to adopt the mentality that users should be shown sympathy, then we begin working against ourselves.

As a security admin, I don't want users thinking I'm some nice guy that will help them do things that they are not supposed to be doing. Why, because it's my job to tell them no. And you will never get respect from users for telling them no all of the time.

Help Desk is a misnomer, they are not there to "help" the end user install stuff (i'm talking corporate support not OEM tech support), but instead are there to fix the problems that they (the end user) probably created in the first place.

Now I did not read the article, but most of the end users I have met suprise me with the fact that they are able to walk upright. And it has nothing to do with then not knowing that the tray thingy is their cd-rom. Most people are just unintelligent which makes it hard for intelligent people to deal with them.

by hal 9000

From a tech friend of mine who got a call asking was the coffie cup holder UG when it broke on the front of the computer.

Turns out that this END USER was using the CD Rom Tray as a cup holder because he didn't know what else it was good for.

Now with people like this are we susposed to think all of the end users we support are rocket scientists? But then again I suspose those Rocket scientists are just as geeky as most of us in the IT business.

by oz_media

You can download either WinZip or WinRAR by using a simple search phrase on any search engine.

ZIP files are just slightly compressed files that offer a smaller download size, also good for downloading multiple files in a single 'package' that you will unzip into the mulitple files.

RAR is another form of file compression, as is tarball etc. MANY flacours but ZIP is the most common. If you don't have it yet, you WILL need it in future, worth adding to you toolbox.

As an somewhat experienced user myself, I JUST this minute finished resolving a boot problem that I had pegged as a failed power supply but was reluctant to replace it until confirmed. TheChas and Col Luck offered some amazing help and I ended up finding it was dead RAM. Pulled the RAM, PC booted, problem solved.

Now this level of support is unsurpassed anywhere and these guys help for the heck of it, talk about fantastic people!

So as I've said here before, YOU may be a gurur to someone, others will be a guru to you. It is usually dependant on who read page two of the manual. (ALthough I wouldn't simplify the techs that are found here that way).

I had an end user (you wanna talk newbie?!)asking DELL for help in gettnig her PC reformatted. When she asked questions, the guy on the help desk was sighing. She said she could imagine him rolling his eyes at, she explained that she was new and she apologized for not understanding brief instructions. He was demeaning to her, she said he even laughed at her questions at one point, and never ended up helping her. She called me and I took some time to walk her through it (not without an email to DELL's tech support Quality Assurance manager).

Here you may find conflict in discussion topics, you will have peers call you a moron for not seeing thier point in politics, religion or human relations. You may have a group of people gang up on you and take turns shooting down your ideas.

When it comes to IT and getting help to the toughest problems, your best friends and worst enemies will all piitch in to see you through it.

Now THAT'S tech support!

Thanks guys!

by pgm554

I?ve been in the biz for quite a while and been on both sides of the fence. I?ve dealt with lazy helpdesk people as a 3rd level, backend support specialist as well as the end users.
But there are times when the users feign stupidity to cover their a**es. Experience with people counts as much as technical know how.

There was a code word for user screw up, O.E. (operator error).

I worked for DEC in the 80?s as a field engineer and part of my training was dealing with the customer. You could be the best tech person in the world, but if the customer sees you as a jerk, then you are a jerk (perception is reality).At the time, we were the most expensive field support organization in the world, but we were also rated the best (over IBM and such)

I have been an end user when calling for tech support and there were times when some of the support guys made me feel as if I were spoiling their day by asking a dumb question. Look, if I knew the answer, I wouldn?t be calling now, would I?

Trying to strike a balance is a tough job, especially when you?ve got some clown bean counter looking to outsource your job. Look at the bang up job Dell when they outsourced their help desk. Management is always looking see just how much dumbing down they can get away with, before the users get pi**ed and move on to somebody else.

Experienced, balanced support people are seen as too expensive in these days of lean budgets.

In the end you pay for what you get.

by voldar

I agree with all, specially with the last part of your post. May I add more? No mater if it?s IT or no matter what field, if a person doesn?t have a little of estime for himself first and those 7 years we always talk about (from the childhood) guys like the DELL?s one are everywhere. I must agree, sometimes when users called me for the third time to come up to their computer because it is not working anymore, and when I get there the monitor is not even plugged into the computer because he pulled it out, I start yelling a bit. Or when I come to help them, ask what the problem is, they say ? I did nothing but my computer freezes. So, I taught myself to never ask what he did but what he wanted to do.
But, also, there are two types of users: the ones that work in the office, in your network for which you are the man in charge, responsible to support and never have downtimes, and users like your friend, home users if you don?t mind to name her so, that are very much entitle to get as much as possible information from the customer support service that can.
That?s it. If you are a user in my network ? you play by the rules. At home, you do anything you want: burn down your computer, whatever. In here, in my network, you are supposed to work as I do, so keep your hands off. I do everything so that you can use the better your programs/computer/printers etc., but that?s it. The rest, it?s mine!

by pistolpig

Although I agree to a certain extent with what you have said. After 8 years in this game, I have to say that I cannot sympathise when users do things "off their own bat" that they shouldn't have touched in the first place. E.G. A customer of mine who at one stage put a huge fan on his CPU by drilling a hole straight through it and putting a bolt and nut on. If you don't laugh, you'd cry.

by oz_media

Would like to see which drill he was using and how he found a bit to fit it that wouldn't crack the CPU, also how he used a bolt and nut to fasten it, was it a stud installed into the heat sink from underneath?. (I'm a mechanical guy, I just can't picture it)

by wordworker

Here's a funny one I overheard this week in the call center. The customer said, "Yes I'm having problems with Microwave Outlook..."

The analyst was cracking up afterwards. "What's the matter, email not getting hot? Did you press Start?"

by oz_media

Now that WOULD make more sense wouldn't it!!
Thanks Max. I got a really screwed up picture in my head as I read it.

Mind you, I've been struggling with a dead box that some peers have been ever so helpful with and had my head up my ass, sniff sniff.

Damn this place can be a reat resource sometimes. I just finished saying to another peer that I feel like I have a secret super resource I can tap into anytime and receive some of the most qualified answers money or tech points can buy.

by oz_media

That WOULD be cool. You could get an electric car fan (12V) hardwire a power adapter to it up the power supply and bolt the thing to the case.

A little Honda fan, Civic 75-81 would fit I bet.

COOOOOOL idea, bad pun though!

by lordinfidel

I've been anylyzing packet captures for the last week, blaming the retransmissions (multiple acks with same seq # and ack#) on our Load Balancers.

Only to find out that a considerable amount of our servers External NICS duplex speed was set to auto instead of 100/full, causing collisions at the switch. Ergo millions of collisions, something me and my team should of have caught.

Needless to say, alot of crow was eaten by myself, especially to the netwk engr at F5, whom I had just wasted a week of his life that he will never get back.

So users are not the only ones who can be idiots.
But then again, think geek does not make any t-shirts that say "It must be SysAdmin error" only "It must be user error" (which I shamefully wore with the correction on it the following day)

**Shameless plug- If you are not familiar with F5 Networks, they are the Rolls Royce of Load Balancers and Enterprise solutions. Their netwk eng's are hands down the sharpest, competent engineers I have ever spoken too.
They are so competent it would be insulting of me to call them tech support.
www.f5.com

by tomsal

If I had learned only one thing from life thus far is that its EXTREMELY EXTREMELY rare that only one party is at fault when arguments/disagreements arrive. Of course one always insists its the OTHER guy. ;)

I've done the IT gig for some time now, been help desk for years, I know this topic well.

Users are wrong when they don't listen. PERIOD. And while professionalism on the job should be maintained, I'm not gonna lie -- certain users who are repeat offenders of NOT listening...yes I don't like them quite frankly they give me a rash. But I help them, because that's one of the reasons I get paid.

There are IT policies in place for a reason - if a policy says DO NOT LOAD THIS ON YOUR MACHINE or DO NOT MODIFY THIS OR THAT and you do -- I'm sorry you are an idiot.

On the other side of the coin,

Sometimes we as the ones providing the support get a little stressed at times and can get short with users, especially those asking (what is to us anyway) a very simple question. Or we sometimes get carried away in explainations and start going geek speak on them.

So there are areas of improvement at both ends.

Now I just wonder if any of the dumb users will figure out how to find this website to read this post. ;>

laters.

by hal 9000

Supplieres as well. I can remember a few years ago selling a modem to some guy who came in asking for one. The next day he returned it claiming it didn't work so I tested it and confirmed that it actually worked in front of him and sent him on his way thinking I had solved the problem. Not so a few hours latter he rang me up being fairly abusive so I went to his home to find out what exactly was going wrong.

When I got there he had a Telstra Big Pond CD and it clearly said "All you need to conect to the internet is this CD and a Modem."

Pity that it didn't mention a computer and he just expected it to work by pluging in the phone line and sitting the CD on top of it. I thought that he should have tweeked when he watched me conect it to a computer and test it but no he insisted that what was on the CD was correct and I was at fault for not selling him the right thing.

I just refunded him his money and suggested he take it up with the CD supplier as IO was in no way conected with them. But it was an expensive modem for me as I wasted a lot of time in finding out what was going on and while in hind sight I should have asked him to bring in his computer for testing it was something that I just didn't think of.

So does that make me a Dumd Techie or Dumb Sales person?

by fluxit

It is a matter of time before the computer will become more closely aligned with solid state concepts then migrate towards a disposable product like your other appliances. In fact, I believe that appliances will become more intelligent and the computer will become more appliance-like. They will mee tin the middle somwhere. This will eliminate the dumb end user since the system will become idiot proof itself.

Self repairing systems, human centric technologies, and fusion of infrastructure networks will change the landscape of our lives in the future. Technological efficiency improvements will drive the cost of processing and data storage to nearly zero cost to effect this.

I have found that when systems/applications being leveraged are well designed having studied the processes thoroughly that the need for support, standard operating procedures, and helpdesk tremendously reduce.

On the flip side, in business generally there is a severe lack of qualified leadership. Many people in leadership or managerial roles lack sufficient skills to implement IT projects or adequately select solutions. Most IT projects on average take 18 months. However, people's IT patience is about 3 monthes and the staff and leadership rotate every 9 monthes thus new goals and direction are brought into the process mid stream. Every 90 days there is this review to 'show' something and most only want end user results virtually ignoring the backend that delivers these results. All this adds to the frustration.

I know when a IT project has run amuck when I hear terms like 'We are going live!' or "Go Live" amongst others. Another flag is anytime there is a team of expeditors or some kind of QA team in the process having all kinds of rules or policies that if properly automated would prevent most of the issues.

by hal 9000

Where do you think Microsoft will fit into you're picture of things to come as most problems are a direct result of their OS or Software rather than hardware failures.

Sure there are some hardware failures that do occure but by far the most questions that I do have to answer is how to "Fix" up something that has gone wrong with a OS {normally user induced} or a piece of software.

It also doesn't help 1 iota when some idot help desk person tells the company that they have to install a program on every station that they use it when it was originally installed on the server and run from there over then network and of course you do not get told these things when you attend the place to get the thing working again you are only told that we have upgraded to the newest program to do the job and not what has actually happened.

There is fault on both sides and until we can teack the first level of tech support what is susposed to happen we will continue to get these problems and no solutions only bigger fixes required.

by fluxit

The future of information technology is unlike we know it today. Most of us know this. I see several paradigm shifts that most likely will occur.

I also see the death of the cubical farm having rows and rows of computers. Several events will diminish the need for this. One, the outsourcing of services like engineering, human resources, customer service, sales, accounting, legal, etc...
Two, the ubiquituous human centric computing will reduce the need for human staff to effect details. For example, an attendant or personal buddy that electronically travels with you. Using your human voice you converse with this virtual system as a normal person. It participates in phone calls and prepares/sends emails, faxes, or documents. While some may think this outrageous recall those that thought human flight was for the birds.

I agree there is fault on all sides. However, the leadership and management can tremendously improve the use of technology but severely lack competent skills. I attribute this more to values that simple education.

by maxwell edison

.
PC Support: Hello

Customer: My computer doesn't work.

PC Support: Well, first of all, tell me what kind of computer you have.

Customer: I have a cellulite processor with 1.5 megapixels of memory and a pga driver.

PC Support: Uh, okay. What specifically won't work?

Customer: My Internet drive stopped working.

PC Support: Are you on a network?

Customer: I think so.

PC Support: What kind of network is it?

Customer: I heard someone say it's a two tear network.

PC Support: Two tear?

Customer: Yea, tear two tear, you know?

PC Support: So your computer turns on, but you just can't access the Internet.

Customer: No, I don't use Access, but I do use Word.

PC Support: But your Internet connection stopped working, right?

Customer: Yea, that's right.

PC Support: Do you have a modem or do you use cable?

Customer: Yes, that's right.

PC Support: Which one?

Customer: Well both. I have a cable plugged into my modem.

PC Support: Okay, what kind of modem is it?

Customer: I think I have a Sportscaster modem.

PC Support: How fast is your modem?

Customer: I'm not sure, but it has a Pentium chip in it.

PC Support: Do you get a dial tone?

Customer: Of course I do. How else could I have called you?

PC Support: No, I mean when you plug your phone line into your modem.

Customer: I have a different phone line going into my modem.

PC Support: Okay, whose your ISP?

Customer: I was using AOL, but now my ISP is Netscape.

PC Support: Netscape is a browser. Do you use Netscape?

Customer: It could be Outlook Explorer. I guess I'm not sure.

PC Support: When did this all stop working?

Customer: It never did work, ever since my brother gave it to me.

PC Support: It never did work?

Customer: Well, it worked when it was pluged into my brother's modem, but it doesn't work here.

PC Support: So you have an external modem?

Customer: No, it's in the house.

PC Support. When you turn it on, what do you see on the screen?

Customer: I see a black screen that says to press F1 for the cosmos.

PC Support: Did you press F1.

Customer: I did once and the screen turned blue.

PC Support: Can you see any windows? No. No. Never mind. Let me pass you up to Level 2 support.

by oz_media

I'd say the guy that is the support guy needs to learn how to properly ask a question. He set himself up for all the responses by not walking with the customer.

Eg.
Customer: I have a cellulite processor with 1.5 megapixels of memory and a pga driver.

PC Support: Uh, okay. What specifically won't work?

This just shows ignorance of the support tech. Why wouldn't he explain, "I assume you may mean a Celeron processor, does that sound right? Great!
Megapixels is a spec for things like digital cameras, is that an issue or would you mean your PC's speed is 1.5 Megahertz? Great!...I know, it's all confusing at first but we can figure this out. Now what we need to determine is ...

The Support tech had the arrogance to ask the customer questions as if requesting info, this does not work. People that are frustrated on the phone need to have the WE included in questions. THis way he/she is not alone and feels you are resolving the issue together. What WE need to do...Ok, now WE need to look hare...Can you see it? Great, what we'll try first is..."

Suport techs need to learn effective human relations skills, not just MUST SPEAK ENGLISH, FRENCH (or SPANISH)A DEFINITE ASSET.

No customer skills = frustrated customers.

I get your post was somewhat lighthearted but I don't think people realize, the customer isn't dumb, the person leading the customer MAY know PC's (or can at least read a troubleshooting sheet) but has no efective communication skills.

by fluxit

In this day and age of information sharing there are an increasing number of tools to assist people in doing thier work. It is a part of the age we are in.

Nonetheless, many end users want to be fed by a silver spoon. They do not want to invest the necessary time to learn the skills for thier job. They just want to ask a question and get an answer with total disregard for any level of effort on thier part or if they disrupt others work.

For example, a CPA firm I work with hired a business manager who was in her late 50's. She had no desire to learn any of her software tools. She would seek new software making her decisions based on the canned reports only shown in the marketing broshure. One time she chose an accounting package that was a frontend to a SQL database and came with several canned reports she thought she could use. Crystal Reports was also bought to make her own financial reports. After getting this package up and running she complained profusely about the weak reports in this program she choose.

I was consulted on how to solve the problem. I suggested that they send her school to learn how to use Crystal Reports as most cost accountants should be proficient in these kinds of packages. She went beserk. She was not going to learn computers. That was not her job.

The partners rolled thier eyes and in the end, my department was tasked with developing her reports which quickly began a burden and nuisance on the IT department. Multiple times a day, I had a tech at her desk changing some format or field. EOM and EOW closeouts were killers as a tech sat at her desk all day to do what was really her job.

In short, it took two people to do a job that should have truly increased one person's productivity and strengthened financial reporting of the business. This is not an isolated incident. It is one that I have repeated over the last 22 years. In fact, it has not improved much at all.

How can end users become more proficient using thier software tools?

by mrafrohead

You know, if an end-user doesn't know how to run a computer, then why would they be stupid enough to get a job that requires them to work on a computer. Get TRAINING first!!! Just something simple. You know that shows you what a PC is, and what a monitor is. And then even better, how to turn it on and what happens when you press the funny little buttons on the rectangle in front of the bright picture screen.

That would be like me, a person who fixes computers, applying to be a diver. I have no freakin clue how to dive, but hey, what the hell, it sure sounds like fun and the pay is great. So when I drown myself down in the deep abyss below, I'm going to just blame the "dumb help desk" and pass the buck to my own ignorance when I should have known better in the first place.

There is nothing wrong what so ever with a user that doesn't know how something works and needs to ask questions, BUT they need to use their own freakin brains, and not try to mooch off of us. We are a help desk. That means we help, we DONT babysit!

When you think that your monitor is a computer, you need to be fired from the job you work at that you do work on computers. Because then the "end user" falls right into the whole ID-ten.T problem. (ID10T)...

Hope that helps a little bit.

Mrafrohead

Remember, everyone starts somewhere and needs to be taught, but just using plain ignorance is wrong. There is no excuse for that.

by tiza

sometimes we can't just help but laugh at the outright stupidity coming from the end users. especially the ones who want to show you how to do the job you spent lots of money and time on. how do you help one of your bosses who complains to another superior that you are not doing your job as he couldn't use a network printer on another pc in the same office because the internet is not working. yet he logged onto the LAN just as the pc with the printer.

by topesblues

I think a bigger problem then end users that don?t know much is the end user who knows enough to be dangerous. The user who tries to "clean up his hard drive" and deletes system files or .dlls. Or the user who decides to install their own software or update drivers. I had one guy upgrade his OS. It worked but a bunch of our apps didn?t. The "Dumb end User" can be a bother but it?s usually easy to fix there problem. It?s the end user that tries to do it himself that gives me the biggest pain. By the time they call the problem is much bigger than it started out to be.

by darren

Or is it more a case of sheer laziness?

I'm sick and tired of showing a user how to do the same thing that I showed them how to do the other day, I actually class myself as a nice tech helper, and have been told I succeed at not speaking overly techy. Yet time after time (and it's always the same user(s)) I have to show them how to do the same thing or 'repair' the same problem.

Oddly other users are quite capable of being told once, or even able to use their own iniative and to at least try to fix a problem before calling me. Ok in some cases they get scared and I'll show them it's nothing to worry about, but I don't mind that.

Why is it always Salli's PC that is running slowly (despite it only being installed yesterday, and working damn well then!) ? Why is it only Salli's machine that miraculously fails to save data? Why is it only Salli's PC that 'crashes' ???

In all walks of life there are those that will try and those too damn lazy to have a go....it's not always dumbness..

by hal 9000

But a more likely way things will develop after all in both Star Teck and Blakes 7 these technologies where viewed as normal with a Voice interface between the user and computer in Star Treck and self repairing circuits in Blakes 7.

Thre Voice interface will be the first of these and most likely is already here in a rudementary form with programs like IBM's Via Voice and Dragons Naturally Speaking and these are only the begining of the Voice Interface which has a long way to develop and with the current software developments speed it will not take all that long tfor these programs to perform far more than they currently do and that doesn't take into account the increased in processing power being introduced every 6 mts or so.

Remember that when the 486's where new you could use them with 1 MEG of RAM and 4 MEG was considered as normal but now days 1 GIG of RAM isn't at all abnormal and anything up to 12 GIG is not pushing the envelope at all as most of the better M'Boards will accept this amount of RAM.

The self repairing circuits will take a bit longer to develop but will evwentually become the norm but we will need a quantum jump in the current technology to allow this to occure so in maybe the next 10 -20 years it could be a reality for everyday Microprocessor controlled units.

Col

by hal 9000

Where only used as demo programs which are at best base line products but they are widely known.

Even the very best Speach Reconisation stuff currently available is a long way from the desired result of just speaking into a mic and then the computer does what it is told, this just hasn't reached this level yet and there is a long way to go.

However given time and if there is a need for thsi technology in some high level Government funded project it will be a very rapid advance. But until then we are left with the small steps at improving the products.

by hal 9000

Self Repairing stuff but I honestly think we will see AI make a big impact long before we see any real developments in this area.

Col

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