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  • #2258341

    Edited out

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    by ontheropes ·

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    • #3209843

      Dude…

      by mickster269 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      “I can sleep at night.”

      You did right, by what you felt was the right thing to do. You were honest, and you were true to yourself.

      A poor man sleeps just as well as a rich man. But when the poor man wakes up, he doesn’t have to worry about who he pissed off yesterday.

      If I ever had to put my career over someone’s life?

      I’d be in the bread line next to you the next day.

      I stopped chasing the money after my wife left me, 15 years ago. I now chase after what makes me feel good about myself.

    • #3209813

      well….

      by waity85 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I haven’t been in a situation like that before (and hopefully never will).

      I’d like to think that I’d do the same as you did, but in all honesty I don’t know if I would. Going off past experience in similiar situations (nothing life threatening however) I have stated unreservably my point of view and acted against my beliefs with a complete 100% order from someone higher up.

      I fully support your decision given that it could have cost lives. However I wonder how many people would have do as told, when faced with a direct order.

      Overall though I wish I could shake your hand, good luck in the future

    • #3209806

      You made only one mistake

      by deadly ernest ·

      In reply to Edited out

      you didn’t brief the QC manager. If you had he could have seen that they weren’t readily visible or gave some bullshit about delaying inspection as he had plenty of time.

      Many years ago when I did some QC work, I once had a similar problem in that a production run JUST met spec at the end of production but was doubtful of being field usable. That is we ran three test batchs one failed the other two past at bare minimum spec. Owner said ship. After discussion with production manager we shipped, then phoned recipient and suggested that they should choose this shipment for their ‘random thorough test of 5% to destruction.”

      Run passed basic tests but immediately failled the full stress tests. Whole batch rejected and shippped back. We had to remanufacture as DoD inspectors had rejected.

      We obeyed the first three rules of business:-

      1. The boss is always right and you do as you’re told.

      2. The client always gets what they want.

      3. Be able to look yourself in the mirror each day.

      You did right mate, if one suspect unit was ever involved in a crash and someone hurt you’d have a hard time sleeping at night.

      • #3210979

        Edited out

        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to You made only one mistake

        Edited out

        • #3210970

          Sleeping at night

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Edited out

          Once upon a time, I was the chair of a student political organization.

          It came time to elect a new chair, and my last duty was to preside over the election.

          I had a favorite of course. The former GF of a close friend, someone who I had dated a few times and who I was desparate to get to know …um…better was one of the candidates, and I know she would support the things I supported. The other candidate was supported by one of the slimiest youth politicians I knew. He would sell his mother. He had documentation showing he had taken residence in the area, even though I knew it was a fraud, he had all the documents required.

          The object of my desire, on the other hand, had signed up a few of her friends and her brother. The slimy guy, as I knew he would, challenged the legitimacy of those memberships, so I had to stop the proceedings and conduct an investigation.

          And by the rules, those memberships, did not meet the standard of proof. I adjourned the meeting to deliberate, but in the end, it was my call. Of course my political allies lobbied me to decide those memeberships were legit, but not to hard because they assumed I would rule with my heart.

          But in the end, I ruled the way I knew I had to – I dissallowed those memberships. This meant when it came to voting for the new chair, my prospective GF lost and the candidate of the slime ball won.

          That girl (breathtakingly gorgeous BTW) never spoke to me again, and quit politics. Her brother threatened me with grievous bodily harm. My political allies were greatly dissapointed. I wasn’t happy that the “bad guy” won, but I couldn’t rule any other way.

          From that point on though, I won some grudging respect from some of those who weren’t my allies. Some of them of course thought I was a sucker who chickened out. Others realized it was a hard choice, and congratulated me for it. Some of those people are still my friends today. One of them is a cabinet minister in the current conservative government in Ottawa.

          James

    • #3209767

      Much depends on the business

      by jamesrl ·

      In reply to Edited out

      In the business you were in, you really had no choice, given any amount of personal or professional integrity.

      The only thing to re-consider is whether you should have “gave as good as you got” in terms of your final conversation with your boss. Its possible that it wasn’t your actions, but your attitude that made your resignation inevitable, but thats just one possibility that I am in no position to judge.

      I have mentioned in the past I did something similar. I was the program manager for the Year 2000 project at a billion dollar firm and one of the projects that most directly impacted clients was clearly headed for disaster. It wasn’t progressing and time was running out. 5,000 customers needed new computers and new software or they couldn’t properly function.

      I had tried to make this point to the project manager of that group, to the manager and director, but it was clear they weren’t listening. The marketing folks were clearly nervous that we would lose business if we didn’t change our direction and fast. I couldn’t get any time with the CIO, but I know the director had discussed the issue with him.

      The VP of sales sat me down for a talk. After hearing me out, he urged me to write a memo. I did, and I pulled no punches. Since I fielded the Y2K calls and letters from customers I knew what they wanted and needed from us, and I let it show.

      The first reaction from the IT director was rage. She brought me into her office and accused me of grandstanding, ambushing and all kinds of nonsense. I will hasten to add I had my boss and the CFO (my boss’s boss)’s complete support. They reviewed it for content and tone.

      So of course the CIO called the CEO and demanded an apology. I think he may have wanted more but people were too discrete to tell me. The CFO sat me down and said, you were right, I wouldn’t change a thing, but if you had to do it all over again, you might have considered sending it to the CIO first for feedback, as a courtesy. Apologise for that, because you can’t do your job without his co-operation, get it over with, but don’t take it personally. If he is being petty, don’t drop to his level. Hold you head up.

      I did, and we had the face to face with te CFO present. I apologised that in hindsight I should have consulted him before sending the memo (an ego stroke, I had all the authority to NOT consult him). It took all of the wind out of his sails.

      I had some little satisfaction that a few months later that director and CIO were fired because of a migration that went horribly wrong.

      But at the end of the day, no lives were at risk. If the worst had happened, people would have lost their jobs.

      James

      • #3210965

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        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to Much depends on the business

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        • #3210725

          Its like I always remind people – It is all

          by j.lupo ·

          In reply to Edited out

          on the wheel…It all comes around sooner or later.

      • #3210876

        Edited out

        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to Much depends on the business

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        • #3210756

          Outcomes….

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Edited out

          After my fun, I decided that after the Year 2000 project ended, I would look elsewhere. Even though I wasn’t part of the IT department, it was clear that 80% of my projects would involve working closely with IT, and even thought they replaced the CIO and one of 4 directors, there were still lots of problems.

          My boss asked me to stay, but she really understood. Within 6 months of my departure, she and her boss, the CFO moved on. When I was job hunting she was a friend and a great help.

          James

    • #3209761

      That is what leadership is all about

      by j.lupo ·

      In reply to Edited out

      it is about doing the right thing in the right way. The owner was unethical and wrong in my book. You weighed all options and chose the only one that was possible. All others could or would lead to potentionally worse situations.

      I have been in similar circumstances (though nothing quite like yours). I have always chosen to follow what is right for the team, for the customer, and the company. The owner is not the company. The reputation of myself, the team, and the company are more important than someone else.

      I am not certain you could have convinced this owner what was at stake. He/she may have had their reasons for what they wanted done, but it was not the best interests of all the stakeholders that they were thinking about.

      • #3210956

        Edited out

        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to That is what leadership is all about

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        • #3210727

          Yep. In your case you had to take the big one

          by j.lupo ·

          In reply to Edited out

          because lives were at stake. When I worked on hospital systems, it was the same. I wouldn’t allow software into production unless it was as perfect as we could forseeable (sp?) make it. I don’t know about you, but if the software controlling the thing operating on me is bad, I don’t want it operating or monitoring my vitals

          We actually did have a situation where a heart monitor had faulty code in it and it said the patient was alive when he was clearly dead. Talk about major fun with that one. The bug was from another team that was shortcutting QA and had the code lifted adhoc to production.

        • #3212172

          There was the infamous case

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Yep. In your case you had to take the big one

          Of the Radiation machine which had a bug in the code which sent out a lethal dose.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac_25

          James

        • #3211882

          Thanks for the reference James

          by j.lupo ·

          In reply to There was the infamous case

          It really is horrible that these things can still happen because people don’t see the value in QA. Like most of IT, they consider it a cost to be removed from their bottom line. 🙁

        • #3277557

          Another Option

          by projmanager ·

          In reply to Yep. In your case you had to take the big one

          I heard an old story yesterday that might have some bearing on this. I’ve done this a few times in the past and usually has worked for me. Your mileage may vary. I knew that something was not done correctly. I knew that taking it to management would involve meeting after meeting with nothing happening but heads rollng and the error would go uncorrected. So, I always made sure the error was corrected before bringing it to management. Usually, we still had meetings but life went on and nobody got hurt. My philosy has been twofold, “If you don’t want the answer, don’t ask the question” and “Its easier to appologize then ask permission”. I alwasy take credit for my decisions, right or wrong, but I’ll never allow anyone to make a decision that puts me in a bad light if I can help it.

        • #3277583

          There is sorry, and SORRY, better the first!

          by wmrmeyers ·

          In reply to Edited out

          I’ve got about 200 hours flying as a passenger in military helicopters on my way to do my job as a photographer for the USAF. The folks I worked with had a combined total for the 5 years I was at Nellis of about 1900 hours. If one of my people got hurt or killed because of out-of-spec parts, I’d probably have tried very hard to track down the responsible party and “discuss” it with them. If I got killed, I’d definately haunt someone! Some folks are even more hardcore than that, so while you may be sorry about the way things turned out, at least you aren’t SORRY about it! Things could be worse, and you could be held personally responsible in more ways, perhaps, than you even envisioned.

    • #3209734

      How far?

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Edited out

      Slightly different, but I literally threw a co-worker across the work area, to stop him from dumping CO2 fire extinguishers onto the rest of the employees, and having it spread into areas filled with about 160 customers.

      sorry, but dumping 50 cubic litres of co2 into any area will stop anyone in there from breathing.

      I say do what you have to. specially when it involves people’s lives being at risk.

      • #3209721

        Did anyone else

        by jamesrl ·

        In reply to How far?

        Have an evil thought about teaching Jacqui’s idiotic co-worker an object lesson. Perhaps keep him after hours, and show him what it would be like to be on the receiving end?

        I hope the idiot was promptly fired.

        James

        • #3209712

          nope

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Did anyone else

          but the management team really liked my reaction in an emergency. 🙂

          not only saved lives, saved money and kept the business going for the day.

          sad part is that the idiot only got taught to not do anything unless directed by others.
          [ usually me ]

          editing to add:

          if the large extinguishing system was the only method, I wouldn’t have stopped him, I just would have cleare people first.

          I actually put the fire out myself with a handheld abc extinguisher, containing the chemicals to a 3 cupbic foot area, not spreading them over an entire working area on 30 feet by 5 feet by 15 feet [ last is height ]

    • #3209699
      Avatar photo

      Been there several times now and always done the right thing

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      The first time that I ran into a problem like this was way back in the old mainframe days when we had Halon Fire Suppression systems. One Government agency had the system fitted and the correct self locking door installed but no internal O2 for anyone trapped inside if the thing went off.

      They had a 35 second time frame between the fire alarm going off and the door closing forever from the inside and the entire place flooded with Halon which was really effective at putting out fires and killing people with no O2 available.

      They did have portable O2 units inside but no external input for O2 which was a requirement that even the most stupid person would realise was absolutely necessary. Of Course the Bureaucrats who had overspent their budget didn’t think it was necessary.

      I refused to sign off on the [b]Safety Certificate[/b] and refused to allow the place to run. Basically I insisted it was unsafe and therefore unfit for human occupation. The Bureaucrats didn’t see it quite this way and insisted that they would fit the O2 system the next year when they had the budget.

      I suggested that I place them all inside at terminals and then at a undetermined time set off the Fire Alarm and just allow those closest to the door to run out and then I would wait for the Fire Brigade to turn up and open the door.

      Naturally by that time everyone of those fools would have been dead and I would never have allowed it to happen but I can look very serious when required. 😀

      The Government went to my immediate Boss to get me to sign off on the thing and he didn’t have the authority to override my decision but he could have walked in inspected the installation and singed off on it but he just passed the buck back to me insisting to those involved I was the Person in Charge of the installation so he didn’t have the right to override my decision.

      Within 3 weeks the money was found to finish off the system properly and I didn’t have a moments hesitation in signing off on the project.

      6 months latter at the first inspection there where no O2 Bottles outside so I closed the place down which really hurt as it had been running for 6 months and had recently come on line so that one hurt quite badly.

      By the time of the following argument I had disabled the Halon and while inside I triggered the Fire Alarm I just reached down and picked up one of the portable O2 units which was only good for 15 – 20 minutes to allow anyone caught inside to find an external O2 outlet and they where running around like Hens with their heads cut off looking for O2 units which of course there where no where near enough of anyway. I just held my unit and the key for the door up and said this isn’t any use as it’s only good for at best 15 minutes and it will be at least 30 minutes before anyone arrives to get us all out by which time we’ll all be well and truly dead. The key is only useful from outside so there is nothing I can do to save all your lives.

      That was a great teaching experience that I’ll never forget seeing all the [b]Fat Cats[/b] in fear of their lives. :^0

      The complaints where easy to handle but the paperwork was a killer on that one.

      Another time I was asked to sign a [b]Safety Certificate[/b] stating that a MRI machine was safe no matter what was done to it and that under no circumstances could it injure anyone. I just altered the wording to say something along the lines if used according to the manufacturers recommendations it was safe to use. This wasn’t acceptable to the [b]Powers That Be[/b] and I refused to alter the alterations or sign another certificate as there is no way that I could guarantee that under any circumstance that unit was safe when I already knew that if a person with any metallic item in them was scanned it would certainly kill them in well under 2 seconds. But I didn’t use that argument I just grabbed a metal scalpel with a stitch cutting blade on it and held it out to the person complaining and told them to cut the 3 phase power lead with the metal instrument and I could guarantee that they would at the very least be injured most likely severely if they even lived at all.

      That resulted in another stand off and I brought in [b]The Book[/b] which was already provided to them telling under what circumstances this unit [b]Could Not Be Used![/b] End of story.

      [b]You can never prevent stupidity but you don’t need to make it easy for them either.[/b]

      I’ve done things like this on more occasions that I care to think about and I’m always right so I can sleep at night without nightmares and more importantly [b]My Integrity[/b] is intact which when everything is said and done is the only important thing that you have.

      Col

      • #3210949

        Edited out

        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to Been there several times now and always done the right thing

        Edited out

        • #3211948
          Avatar photo

          I’m only sorry that the place

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Edited out

          Wasn’t under Video Surveillance as I would have grabbed those tapes and have kept them till this day. 😀

          The look on the faces of those involved in the decision making was priceless and I still get a good chuckle over it whenever I think of it now all these years latter. :^0

          Col ]:)

          Edit [i] I hope that you laughed so hard when you read that bit that you wet yourself. ;\

          Only someone with real [b]INTEGRITY[/b] would see the funny side of doing something like that.[/i] 😉

    • #3210977

      You weren’t protecting your customer

      by dmambo ·

      In reply to Edited out

      Well, yeah you were, but you were also protecting the pilots, your own a$$, your QC Mgr and, unfortunately, the snake of an owner you worked for.

      Maybe this would have been one case where it would have been OK to burn the bridge. The same afternoon you should have been on the phone with the customer and laid out the whole story for him. Put the boss on the hot seat!

      Naw, that would ended up hurting the whole team. Was there any documentation of the directive to ship the incorrect parts? Would have loved to have that to use against the boss.

      You know you did the right thing, and you can look you kids in the eye knowing that you weren’t putting anyone else’s kids in jeopardy.

      • #3210954

        Edited out

        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to You weren’t protecting your customer

        Edited out

        • #3210829

          Nothing to fool with

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to Edited out

          About 75% of what we sell is mil spec product. Any of the big defense contractors can require source inspection on any order they want and our testing is reviewed by Defense Supply Center – Columbus (DSCC). To try to get away with anything underhanded would be screwing ourselves.

        • #3210759

          Edited out

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to Nothing to fool with

          Edited out

    • #3210916

      Integrity in the first degree

      by tig2 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I thought I knew the quality of your character, now I am certain of it.

      Something that Max said to me comes to my mind- Adversity builds character. We are not strengthened nor do we grow when everything is fat and happy. While the pain of the moment may seem unbearable, it is precisely those painful moments that reveal our strength and character.

      I respect you much.

      The great corporate debate it seems is about accountability. Or specifically, decrying the lack thereof. I know that by holding myself accountable, I am capable of providing a better project. I promise that to my clients and I deliver on the promise. What I find is that while everyone is TALKING about accountability, no one is doing much to promote it. And it is the times that my integrity in concert with the belief that I am accountable that get me in the biggest trouble. People assume that if I am holding myself accountable, I will hold THEM accountable too. Some folks object to that.

      I understand what you have been through, possibly in a way that most can’t relate to. You’ve read my story. Sometimes life is not only unfair but pretty damned harsh. You either get busy living or get busy dying and hope that the choices you have to make along the way don’t kill you.

      You’re one of the good ones, NeverBusted. But you know that.

      One of these days we will have to have that beer…

      Edited for typo

    • #3210875

      When push comes to shove…

      by mickster269 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      At the end of the day, you only have one person to answer to –

      Yourself.

      We’ve all read the news headlines, of people that cut corners, that took the easy way out, that looked the other way. Most of them are in jail now, btw.

      neverbusted- I don’t know if you have children. I do. I have tried (to the best of my abilities) to teach my son right vs. wrong. His trust in me is the one thing I cherish over all others.

      At the end of the day, when I come home, and he is there- if he asks me: “Dad, how was your day? Did you do the right thing?”

      I want to look him in the eye, and say: ” Yeah, dude. I did the right thing. We might be eating Ramen Noodles for a bit, But I did the right thing.”

      Because my son’s respect is more important than any paycheck I could ever bring home.

      • #3210742

        Edited out

        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to When push comes to shove…

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        • #3212014

          when it comes down to it…the bottom line.

          by mickster269 ·

          In reply to Edited out

          Can you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning- and say “I did the right thing. I respect myself”.

          We all make dodgy statements, stretch the truth, and bend the laws of physics.

          But, when push comes to shove…the final statement is:

          “To thy ownself be true”.

        • #3212013

          See above post

          by mickster269 ·

          In reply to Edited out

          .

        • #3211946
          Avatar photo

          Bad Boy Breaking TR like that. :p

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to See above post

          Now I’ve got to tell on you. 😀

          Col ]:)

        • #3212012

          ack TR glitch. n/t

          by mickster269 ·

          In reply to Edited out

          I said, no text.
          trust me.

        • #3212005

          Edited out

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to ack TR glitch. n/t

          Edited out

      • #3277429

        Well Said

        by jim_p ·

        In reply to When push comes to shove…

        “Because my son’s respect is more important than any paycheck I could ever bring home.”

        This would have to be the most wiseful statement I have heard in a while. Good on you for having loyality to your family.

        Jim

    • #3212038

      you did the right thing!

      by alexcoop ·

      In reply to Edited out

      i used to be a heavy structure sheet metal mechanic before a hand injury, and from personal experience i can say i had the power of life and death over people. i worked on things that it was absolutely critical that they be done right. when planes crash, people die. i’ll quit a job before i take part in covering up a critical mistake.
      i think your a hell of a man and deserve a lot of credit.
      alex

      http://www.alexcooper.org

    • #3168950

      I wish you well – your integrity is rare

      by tony85 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I had to put my job on the line, not in quite such circumstances; fortunately my boss at the time backed down.
      I also (in a different job) discovered boards that were part of a missile firing system that had been shipped out to trials as spares that could NEVER have passed test, due to mismarked components on them. Fortunately I was able to trace every component and get all the boards replaced. This was early in my career, as a 23 year old engineer.

      You did the right thing. Here in the UK, we now have laws that would make owners like the one you describe think twice – executives have found themselves on trial on corporate manslaughter charges when decisions they have made have led to deaths. So far, most of them have wriggled out of it with good lawyers, but at least it makes them stop and think of the potential consequences.

      You would almost certainly have won a case for unfair dismissal.

      • #3168922
        Avatar photo

        Tony if I remember correctly

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to I wish you well – your integrity is rare

        Didn’t one of the Heads of the company who made the F1-11’s go to jail for allowing faulty Wing pivot parts to be used which resulted the the early crashes of this aircraft?

        Col

        • #3168887

          Sub-contracted to the max

          by mmalouf ·

          In reply to Tony if I remember correctly

          Don’t know about any jail time for people, do know about the incident. I was with the F-111 program from acceptance inspection of aircraft from the factory to retirement of the aircraft. The incident you mention resulted in only one crash, but the story is amazing. The aircraft manufacturer sub-contracted the wing construction, they sub-contracted further, etc. Ultimately, a critical part for the left pivot box was being made by a self-employed individual in his work shop. Yes, he used sub-standard material. I’ve heard stories that he actually built was he was contracted to the specs given were wrong. Don’t really know. I kind of doubt the individual ever knew what he was building or what it was for. I wonder it this would fall under a “span of control” failure for management?

          Someday I’ll have to post about two of my integrity issues. Both of which got a full colonel and several other officers and senior NCOs kicked out of the service.

    • #3168946

      Faulty Goods

      by pgs-au ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I was in a similar situation in Sydney (AU) a number of years back. I was working for one of the ‘up & coming pc firms’ – which have since changed names (probably to hold off bankruptcy).
      For a month we had an order of 10 – 15 PCs to be built & shipped to North Queensland. They weren’t built until the last possible day. This was well before the fully integrated main boards. Every one went out with a faulty sound card. I had suggested we hold off for a day to get new cards in, but the boss said no. They have to go today. The customer can send them back for repair. The cost of sending that number of PCs out & then having the bases returned to change a $25 part…
      Yep, I was so impressed I didn’t buy the company. I quit. My own business is small & probably always will be – but I NEVER treat my customers like that.

    • #3168903

      Quite a dilemma

      by rtmtech1 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      When I read the description I thought “as long as it’s not aircraft parts it might be OK’, but since it is aircraft parts you are in a jam. Since it was for the military and neither servicemen nor their families can sue the military you are probably protected from liability. I left my job at an aviation company because I found mistakes that were being “corrected” in a manner not in compliance with the FARs. I could have blown the wistle, but it would have just cost the jobs of the supervisors and probably their airman’s certificate too. Management would have been unscathed. I had the problems corrected and then left the company. I have little doubt that the management sytle in place at my former employers increases the probability of an accident but no one can be certain it will cause one. My conscience is clear though. I hope you can reconcile yours.

    • #3168896

      I applaude you!

      by bdering ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I would have done the same.

      Many years ago, I recall being asked by a company to make a copy of a copyrighted software and send it to a branch office. I explained that they should go to the nearest retailer and buy the software and expense it out. I was then TOLD to copy the software and send it. I told them that I could not do that. I was told “If you can not do what is being asked of you, then your services may no longer be needed”. I am sure this was supposed to be a scare tactic to get me to send the software copy. I excused myself, went to my office and 10 minutes later returned with my resignation effective immediately. I was told that this was not what they wanted. I told them that I would “not sacrifice my integrity or my career or be bullied into it”, turned around and walked out of the building.

      Thank you for keeping the integrity train running.

    • #3168848

      You’re not busted, you acted on your ethical standards

      by kj7gs ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I just sent a reply to this in our class discussion board regarding being objective as a leader and encouraging those with different opinions to speak their mind. Of course, that hasn’t been the case in the history of my own career, with many of my bosses wanting and hiring nothing but “yes men”, and apparently your boss thought you were one of them.

      Personally I think maintaining your own ethical standards is a significant plus for your r?sum?. If I were in a leadership position, I would want to stay out of jail, and I would hire ethical personnel. And if I would do it, there are other supervisors that will also do it. Your previous supervisor got his way with his unethical procedures, and he may very well get away with it in the long run. So what.

      One other point I’d like you to consider is that I used to be in the military. When my own boss was unethical, I had to follow orders anyway. I didn’t have the power of “I quit” like you did. Congratulations, you had a choice, and you acted on the choice based on your own standards. There are other jobs out there. You’re not “busted”, you acted on your own ethical standards and you found out that your boss didn’t have the same standards and he had an inability to listen to and respect lower echelons within the organization. That kind of leadership is unacceptable. Go find what you want and pursue your dreams. You did the right thing. But make that issue a point in your next interview…

    • #3277684

      Thank you

      by dr. tarr ·

      In reply to Edited out

      From the point of view of one of the people who might have been flying in a helo with one of those parts, I want to thank you for your integrity guts. Flying in an aircraft that is constantly beating the air into submission, in lousy conditions, and occaisionally having the locals on the ground express their gratitude with small arms and RPGs is hazardous enough, defective or substandard parts can make it down right unpleasant.

      Semper Fi brother, you might not have been in the Corps, but you did the right thing, under threat of grave consequeences, and upheld the highest traditions of the service.

      Once again, thanks!

      Edited to remove fat fingered mistakes

    • #3277507

      Fiction?

      by jimtheengineer ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I recall a book – and a movie – titled something like, “All My Children” about a WWII company shipping defective parts.

      I thought that was FICTION!

      THANK YOU for keeping it fiction!

    • #3277477

      You did the right thing; so did I

      by firstaborean ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I was once in a somewhat comparable situation. I was a full-time engineering consultant to a company, where I found a serious safety-related design flaw in one new custom product. I went to the boss to tell him; he poo-pooed the idea. I came back the next day with a formal document, wherein he was to state that he had received my comments, without commitment to any action. I asked him to sign and date it, so as “to cover my ass in case of a customer lawsuit.” He didn’t sign it; he had the problem fixed. He could have given me my walking papers, instead; I had no employee (protected) status with the company.

    • #3277474

      Thank You

      by vshav66 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I am an IT pro with a wife and small children. In the last 3 years I went through 2 deployments as a Navy Seabee(Combat Engineer) in Iraq. I flew in many aircraft of all sorts throughout the desert and under fire. I just wish that all parts manufacturers had people such as yourself working for them. The running joke is that “Remember that your weapons are made by the lowest bidder”. You did the right thing, I would do it as well.

    • #3277441

      I’d like to think I’d do the same…

      by dwdsr ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I used to be a brake mechanic. I knew that people’s lives were on the line if I screwed up even a little bit. If your parts were critical to the operation of a machine that lives depended on, you did exactly the right thing, and I’d have done the same. The amoral actions/attitudes of someone above mean nothing. It’s your own soul (if you will) that has to pay the price. I’d rather live under a bridge than have innocent lives on my conscience…

    • #3277433

      I’d hire you any day!

      by brokeneagle ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I’d hire you any day! The bad news is: I only can hire unpaid volunteers.

      I would have told your ex-boss, “I made a command decision to keep you out of jail. If you can’t live with that, then I’ll update my resume.”

    • #3277368

      Applauds

      by wingedmonkey ·

      In reply to Edited out

      Wow,
      That is an incredible testament to your character. Well done sir, well done.

    • #3279277

      Well done.

      by skyline_blvd ·

      In reply to Edited out

      You refused to put others’ lives at risk and to cheat a customer. I hope that I never find myself in such a position, where doing the right thing would be so costly to me – you did what I hope I would do.

      As an aside, I’m currently taking a break (an hour or so) from developing some software that I hope to sell a lot of soon. The software is almost ready, but not quite. I could release it for sale now, but am fed up with half the products I buy being of unacceptable quality, and have vowed not to compromise. My software is three months late in its release, but when it is released, it will be software that I’m proud to sell, and that I hope will satisfy my customers.

      You should be proud of your choice, sir. If others would, as you did, stick to the principles their parents taught them (or at least should have taught them) we would live in a far better world.

      Skyline

      • #3279091

        New Software

        by breadtrk ·

        In reply to Well done.

        Need any Beta testers?

    • #3279228

      Thanks!

      by lazarus439 ·

      In reply to Edited out

      I spent about 22 years flying C130s in the Air Force. I truely and deeply hope the people who made the parts for those machines had even half the ethics and integrity you do.

      And I am reasonably sure that I could line up 100% of those who flew the choppers for which those those parts were inteneded and everyone of them would agree with me.

      My only regret about this is that the wrong person went through the hell of the fallout.

      Thank you!!

    • #3284585

      Help your company slit it’s own throat…

      by boomslang ·

      In reply to Edited out

      If you are in management and directly responsible for any fallout from the problem and can be sued for it, quit. You are in a position where integrity to yourself comes first and you do not deserve to be the fall guy for incompetent, corrupt owners nor should you corrupt yourself for their gain. Let them replace you with someone who will be their “Yes Man”. They deserve it.

      If you are in a worker position and your management is stupid enough to make that kind of decision and you cannot be held accountable, ship the product and help your company commit suicide. You are not being paid to think or be responsible and they are corrupt and deserve the end results. You are not being paid to be their babysitter. If your conscience is bothered by this, quit and go find a company with integrity to work for.

      In the case of aerospace, the FAA, if you are dealing with an honest FSDO, would genuinely like to hear about this as anything that does not meet certifications, can and will be used to fine or shut down such an operator. In the case of the military, screw them over, create an instance of in-flight failure and you can kiss any future business with them goodby. The Owner of the business was too stupid or corrupt to realize that he would be bankrupted by such a stupid act, and he deserves it when it eventually happens.

      There is a term “Watching out for Number One” that has been used to justify greed. This is the company owner’s motto.

      There is another concept that is a little more important that gets derided by the politicians and money makers of the world. They want you to display it towards them, but not to yourself. That is “Loyalty”. Be Loyal to yourself, not to any company, politician or country. Being loyal to yourself means being a good citizen who watches out for the best interests of his fellow human beings, something that is usually not valued by the world at large.

      You did the right thing and unfortunately where stupidity reigns, there are punishments for doing the right thing. You however will never be responsible for some poor pilot dieing because his helicopter crashed because of a greedy psychopath who would glibly send his sabotage parts out to sit in stock and be used at a future date.

    • #3284584

      Help your company slit it’s own throat…

      by boomslang ·

      In reply to Edited out

      If you are in management and directly responsible for any fallout from the problem and can be sued for it, quit. You are in a position where integrity to yourself comes first and you do not deserve to be the fall guy for incompetent, corrupt owners nor should you corrupt yourself for their gain. Let them replace you with someone who will be their “Yes Man”. They deserve it.

      If you are in a worker position and your management is stupid enough to make that kind of decision and you cannot be held accountable, ship the product and help your company commit suicide. You are not being paid to think or be responsible and they are corrupt and deserve the end results. You are not being paid to be their babysitter. If your conscience is bothered by this, quit and go find a company with integrity to work for.

      In the case of aerospace, the FAA, if you are dealing with an honest FSDO, would genuinely like to hear about this as anything that does not meet certifications, can and will be used to fine or shut down such an operator. In the case of the military, screw them over, create an instance of in-flight failure and you can kiss any future business with them goodby. The Owner of the business was too stupid or corrupt to realize that he would be bankrupted by such a stupid act, and he deserves it when it eventually happens.

      There is a term “Watching out for Number One” that has been used to justify greed. This is the company owner’s motto.

      There is another concept that is a little more important that gets derided by the politicians and money makers of the world. They want you to display it towards them, but not to yourself. That is “Loyalty”. Be Loyal to yourself, not to any company, politician or country. Being loyal to yourself means being a good citizen who watches out for the best interests of his fellow human beings, something that is usually not valued by the world at large.

      You did the right thing and unfortunately where stupidity reigns, there are punishments for doing the right thing. You however will never be responsible for some poor pilot dieing because his helicopter crashed because of a greedy psychopath who would glibly send his sabotage parts out to sit in stock and be used at a future date.

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