IT Employment

Ask something
Discussion Locked

Extending Copper beyond 100m

0 helpful
19 replies

by bethel baptist

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

Problem: Ethernet enviornment, existing copper cable is roughly 700ft, copper is 25 pair twisted cable and used for a dozen phones. Can I extend the 100m barrier to use this existing cable for my network? If I can then will the solution pose a problem to the phone lines that also run through this cable? Keeping the cost low is very important to solving my problem!
Solution: ???

19 replies

by omie

Definitely, you will have a problem if you use that cable.It is clear in the rule that the maximum distance is 328ft ... maybe you could go like 400 ft but not 700 ft unless you will put a repeater in in between .. hub or a switch.

If you are planning to put phone lines too... Are those phones you are talking about are analog or digital? If it is IP phone it would be okay on the other hand if it is analog there is a great chance that you will have problem on noise and crosstalk.

by guruofdos

Use a hub every 100m and you should be ok, but if you are using analogue (please note correct ENGLISH spelling!) telephones, you will need microfilters on the analogue outlets for the phones. These are normally used on ADSL phone points to filter out the data from the audio (otherwise you hear high pitched screeching on the phones). I am assuming your cabling is CAT5 rated? If it is not, and it is standard telephone grade cabling, do not attempt to run the network at 100MB/s.

You would be better running a cheap fibre optic cable and using an RJ45 to Fibre Optic Transceiver at each end. At 10MB/s or even 100MB/s a simple optical solution shouldn't cost more than around ?300 (US$480) with monomode f/o cable costing about 20 pence (32 cents) per metre. Depends what you mean by cheap!

Remember the old adage...money invested in the right solution to start with more than covers the cost of rectifying problems later!

by omie

First of all your spelling for analogue is wrong...Analog is the right term and spelling. I don't know your nationality but it is wrong. Look at the dictionary or a technical reference.

Where did you find a 25 pair cable a Cat-5E rated?That is a telephone cable. There are only only two type of Cat-5 it it is either the twisted pair or the plenum type.

The person is not asking your recommendation what he could do with the existing line so that he could use it but not running another line.So with the situation that he presented as it is .. there is a potential problem.
Right ???

by oldefar

Thinking in terms of an ethernet environment narrows your choices for a solution to a low cost ethernet connection over existing phone cable.

Try restating your objective. What are you trying to achieve at the end of this 700ft of copper? Are you adding multiple workstations, or just one? Are you perhaps just adding a printer? If workstation(s), what will they be needing? Can these needs be met in a standalone situation?

by bethel baptist

Objective: Get 10 computers hooked up with the rest of the network. Issues:No room in the conduit for new cable, Fiber is too expensive anyways, can't put in repeaters because the copper is burried under a parking lot.

Anything else?

I am interested it a device that can either boost the signal or that can convert the signal into a format that isn't effected by the distance. Having a slow connection isn't a problem since they have no connection as of now.

by mrafrohead

Here are two things that I just thought of that may work for you, but I don't know about price.

You could set up a wireless lan to connect one building to the other, but that might be expensive and not very secure.

What type of business is this for?? Is it something that security is important???

Another way is to use modems in the computers (56k) and have them dial into the network via VPN.

OR - maybe get a new t1 from the phone company and use that to connect the buildings...

Here are some ideas to toss around. If you like any of them, maybe we can expand on it:)

Mrafrohead

by oldefar

You can hang a couple of T1 CSU/DSU on the copper. It takes 2 pair, and you rollover the tx and rx pair. Set one unit to clock. This will give you a high speed serial path between the two sites. CSU vendors include Kentrox, Verilink, GDC, and Teleprocessing Products. The GDC and Teleprocessing Products devices have nice stand alone cases.

At each end, you will need a DTE (bridge or router) to complete the network. Bridging is simpler - LAN to bridge to CSU to CSU to bridge to LAN. Keything here is to match the serial interfaces - V.35 or RS-449 on both DTE and DCE (CSU/DSU). Either works, just get the same.

I can't speak to costs on this. However, you may be able to find these devices at a swap meet or at an auction. Most VARs will be able to help you out as well.

by jklein

To connect the buildings look into a line of site microwave connection. The cheapest way to go is wireless for your campus. I am very leary about your current wire situation.

by madroxxx

Tut systems
http://www.tutsystems.com/

makes a product that effectively allows you to run your own DSL solution up to a mile over copper cable. You would be limited to 1.5mbs but you wouldn't have to tear up your parking lot.

by guruofdos

This may be a tad simple, but as you have phone links between the buildings, there's always dial-up networking using modems....as you say speed isn't an issue!

by djent

I would use a switch @ <100m as it resets the "hops" for a small additional cost over a hub.

by guruofdos

I am English.....we invented the language and the definitive reference is the Oxford English Dictionary.

Look in an 'American' dictionary and you will find the word spelled Analog.

Similar instances?? Monologue, epilogue, dialogue etc...

Asto the cable.....CAT 5E is available in many 'flavours'. It is possible to get multi-pair telephone cable that DOES conform to CAT5 standards, i.e. resistance, capacitance, impedance etc, and as such is used for 'built in' structured cabling. We have our two offices linked by 400m of multi-pair cable, and run 7 analogue phone lines, two lan connections and a CresNet connection as well as RS485 down the same cable. The only proviso is that microfilters are needed at the analogue ends.

by meatwad

Sorry guru but the American way is better. It saves on toner and keystrokes. That cuts down on my budget for office supplies and the odds I'll get carpal tunnel syndrome.

Cheerio!

by mrafrohead

Ladies, arguing about spelling is just plain st00pid!

We're on the freakin net here for pete's sake. That means that you will encounter people from other countries than your own. Which means that they will different ways of spelling things and phrases than your own. Don't be a freakin asshole about it!!!

Both of you are right about your spelling.

For the problem at hand. I believe that if you just install a hub or a switch every 100m that would take care of the problem. It will act as your repeater and keep the signal strong. Cost wise, the hub is cheapest. Although if you can spring for it, I would get switches. They're better.

Hope that this helps you out.

Mrafrohead

And I also hope my "sp3ll1ng" is alright...

by meatwad

I'm sorry. I was making a joke and I apologize to guru if it was taken as an insult. No hard feelings. :)

by mrafrohead

Microwave sounds good. Not to mention you get your data across the wire, but you can pop your popcorn at the SAME time!!! ;)

Mrafrohead

by oldefar

The datasheets look promising for a TUT product solution. I like the DHCP relay and transparent bridging capabilities.

Are you recommending from experience?

by madroxxx

I have not used thier products to extend a network however I have used them to provide DSL to an apartment complex. The beauty is the client machines need almost no configuration.

by guruofdos

No worries...you need a sense of humour if you want to survive in the mad, bad and sad world of computers!

Keep smiling :-)

Mike (GuruOfDOS)

This discussion is closed to new replies.