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Fallujah falls ....

By jardinier ·
more dead Americans;
more dead Iraqi insurgents;
more dead Iraqi civilians.

How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky
Yes 'n how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry
Yes 'n how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died
The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind

A quick Google search will show you many pictures of the incursion in Fallujah. I looked at pictures at:

What distressed me most was the youthfulness of the American soldiers who have died. I can only hope that history will tell that they have not died in vain.

There has been much debate recently as to how many Iraqi people have died directly as a result of the war. I have just received the following information from a very reliable source, and have emailed him asking how these figures were arrived at.

Naming the Dead in Iraq ceremony on 2nd November revealed the latest body count from Iraq showed 37,000 Iraqi civilians, 30,000 Iraqi soldiers and 1,246 Coalition soldiers had died in the conflict so far.

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by BFilmFan In reply to Fallujah falls ....

I didn't see any body count for terrorists, insurrgents, freedom fighters (insert whatever term you prefer for the whomever isn't in uniform and firing on Allied Forces [US, British, xtc.]) listed there from your source.

Being old enought to have participated in Summer Vacation 1969, **** Ap Bia Gathering, and later learning the North Vietmanese listed their dead at nearly 2 million, I would suspect that any body count is highly suspect as to the number of enemy/civilian dead. It is common practice among combat forces to drag off bodies and hide them,so the enemy cannot tell the size of the force it is engaging. Unless news crews are standing around and it makes good PR for your side, then it makes sense to claim they killed 10 times that many "innocent civilians" and these were all you could find.

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Bob Dylan and Young Soldiers

by maxwell edison In reply to Fallujah falls ....


I read not too long ago that the writer of the lyrics you posted was being mentioned in some (serious) circles as being considered as a viable contender for nomination to receive the Nobel Prize for literature. It would be an unprecedented move, since music and/or music lyrics have never before been considered for such an honor. But if anyone deserves to be the exception, it's Bob Dylan whose lyrics have touched the hearts and the souls of more than just one generation. You and I are of a generation that heard them for the first time. But they do indeed live on for all to hear.


That song was first released by Bob Dylan in 1963, when I was 10 years old, on the "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" record album. Of course his version never received much air time, as Peter Paul and Mary's version rode the music charts into what could be described as a theme song for the contentious 60s. The message, however, will remain with us for ages, I have no doubt. (Actually, the song itself was first released on an earlier Peter Paul and Mary album. Dylan's album was released later in the year.)

I have a couple of copies of that original Bob Dylan record album. And if you would like one, I'd be happy to send it to you. (However, I'd need some time to dig it up.) But not too many people have turntables any more. (I have three.)

The record tracks are:

"Blowin' in the Wind"
"Girl From The North Country"
"Masters Of War"
"Down The Highway"
"Bob Dylan's Blues"
"A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall"
"Don't Think Twice, It's All Right"
"Bob Dylan's Dream"
"Oxford Town"
"Talking World War III Blues"
"Corrina, Corrina"
"Honey, Just Allow Me One More Chance"
"I Shall Be Free"

I think my favorite track on the record is Dylan's solo version of "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right". Dylan vocals, guitar and harmonica. But the whole album certainly is, in my opinion, one of the most important and influential pieces of work of the 20th century.


And you're right, Julian. Those soldiers are very young, at least by our standards. But I've known a lot of these guys, and they all have my utmost respect and admiration. They truly are today's heroes, and I believe history will judge them accordingly.

Consider this for just a moment. Consider that the plan really is to transform the middle east into a land that values freedom and democracy. Consider that after hundreds (or thousands) of years of hatred, oppression and violence, that the seeds of liberty planted today in Iraq just might be the cure that spreads across borders. Consider that, even though it might take several decades to accomplish, we can finally see a middle east with some semblance of order and acceptance for people of all backgrounds. Consider that after decades of tolerating the "nuisance" of world-wide terrorism that it might eventually be defeated, and the lands in which it incubates might no longer breed such hatred.

It is indeed a noble and lofty goal, and one I believe is in the making. Whether or not we can accomplish that goal remains to be seen, but it certainly is worthy of pursuit. And consider that young soldier who is taking the first steps in the accomplishment of that goal. No, I don't believe that those who've died will have died in vain. To the contrary, I think their sacrifices will be seen in no lesser light and no less noble than those who remain under the headstones at Normandy.

And Julian, I believe their efforts will work, because thay have to work.

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I never could stand Bob Dylan...

by TomSal In reply to Bob Dylan and Young Soldi ...

Not really on topic I know, but they played Dylan on the radio today too and you know what he is one guy that boggles my mind how people find him talented...I can't stand his voice.

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Voices only a mother could love - or a real aficionado

by maxwell edison In reply to I never could stand Bob D ...

Here's a quick list of some "voices" that wouldn't exactly get critical acclaim, at least when compared to the likes of Frank Sinatra, Julie Andrews, Luciano Pavarotti, Josh Grogan or a multitude of other "great" voices.

Bob Dylan
Janice Joplin (Although her rendition of Kris Kristofferson's, "Me and Bobby McGee", especially the song's conclusion, is, in my opinion, one of the greatest vocal presentations of all time.)
Kris Kristofferson
Louie Armstrong
Bruce Springsteen (I once heard a D.J. say that Springsteen sounds like Bob Seger, except that Bob Seger can sing.)
Mick Jagger
Willie Nelson
Stevie Nicks (At least according to some people, but personally I think she has a great voice)
Ringo Starr
Rod Stewart

Moreover, Bob Dylan is most certainly recognized for his song writing abilities much more than his vocal skills. You might be surprised to see some of his songs made into hits by other singers.

Some examples:

Blowin' in the Wind (Peter Paul and Mary)
All Along the Watchtower (Jimmie Hendrix)
Mr. Tambourine Man (The Byrds)
Knockin' on Heaven's Door (Warren Zevon recorded a great rendition of this song just before his impending death)
Like a Rolling Stone (Rolling Stones)

.....just to name a few.

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Janis joplins voice

by Packet Spoofer In reply to Voices only a mother coul ...

Sounds like a dying rhinocerous with laryngitis!
I would rather listen to a donkey bray in a tin roofed barn at midnight than to hear that woman sing.....!

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Actually Scott Janis screamed more than sing

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Janis joplins voice

But Max is totally correct her rendition of "Me and Bobby McGee" was one of the greatest songs of all time.

When she had Big Brother and the Holding Company backing her she was great but after the split she went down hill a lot and the work load that was placed upon her eventually lead to her death. But the really funny thing is that she became far more popular after her death than when she was alive so at the very least she is in some excellent company!


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by Packet Spoofer In reply to Actually Scott Janis scre ...

I actually do like the song....and it is a paradox to me why a voice that sounds like a blender in "liquify" mode, can actually be considered enjoyable, and yet if I pass by that song on the radio, I always stop and listen to it.

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Yes Scott it is

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Col.....

Unforgettable isn't it?


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Voices ....

by jardinier In reply to Voices only a mother coul ...

Technically speaking, I would say that Louis Armstrong does not possess a singing voice at all.

But he is the one vocalist whom I never tire of hearing.

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Dylan's "voice" ....

by jardinier In reply to I never could stand Bob D ...

At the peak of his popularity, I was living in Kings Cross, Sydney, an embedded observer of the hippie phenomenon.

In one building where I lived for a while, the folks would get stoned and listen to Bob Dylan all night.

I couldn't STAND his voice, but I could readily recognise that he was the voice of a whole generation of young people who felt let down by their parents and the establishment, but did not know where to turn.

Bob Dylan did not provide any answers, but he sure vocalised the feelings of those young people who felt alienated from mainstream society.

I will tell you a little story (yes, I am always blowing my own trumpet in these discussions, but only because my experiences are relevant to the topic).

A suburban branch of Rotary asked Ted Noffs of the Wayside Chapel if he could select someone to explain the views of the young people.

He chose me, and a young guitarist, and I chose a female member of staff for emotional support.

In typical fashion, I did not prepare a speech, but over dinner thought up a few comments.

The young guitarist played and sang, in an aggressive tone, "The Times They Are A' Changing."
After ten minutes I had used up all my ideas and was standing on a stage, speechless, before a large audience with another 50 minutes to fill in.

So I asked the audience (middle class mums and dads) if they had any questions. Well things really took off. They were so interested to hear me explain the views of the young people that they extended the meeting beyond the normal time.

And the young guitarist, who had sung so angrily before, was so moved by the interest of the older generation that he played a really nice song in conclusion.

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