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George Bush rescues the people of Iraq from their tyrannical dictator

By jardinier ·
But apparently the rotten sods are not grateful.

The quality of miscellaneous discussions at TR has gone so far down the toilet, that I only pop in when I am bored sh|tless.

While so many w*nkers are wasting their time pandering to Maxwell Edison's absurd obsession with alleged human-caused global warming, life goes on in the real world.

It seems the continued presence of US and other foreign troops in Iraq is causing more harm than good.

The Australian, June 21, 2006

THE level of violence in some areas of Iraq is worsening dramatically and US forces may soon be asked to leave by the Iraqi Government.

In an exclusive interview with The Australian, former US deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage has given a gloomy assessment of the situation.

"The British used to make a big deal of walking around in their berets in the south," he said. "Now they won't even go to the latrines without their helmets. The south has got much rougher, it's mainly Shia on Shia violence."

Mr Armitage said much of the violence came from differences over how the Islamic religion should be interpreted.

And he said he believed the Iraqis would soon ask the US to leave their country.

The most optimistic scenario following a US withdrawal would be that Iraq would become a loose federation -- although the term federation would not be used because it upsets neighbouring Turkey -- with a weak central government.

"The difficulty then will be to stop them (the Iraqis) causing violence for their neighbours," Mr Armitage said.

This was because almost all of Iraq's neighbours had restive Shia minorities and the governments of both Iraq and Iran would come under pressure to intervene on their behalf.

Mr Armitage believed the Shi'ites and Sunnis had not sated their appetite for violence against each other. But there were signs of the essential compromises necessary to make Iraq stable in the negotiations taking place inside the new Iraqi Government.

Mr Armitage said he hoped there could be a draw-down of US and other coalition troops in Iraq in the next 12 to 18 months.

Although George W. Bush had a good week, with the death of al-Qa'ida in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and progress with the Iraqi Government , Mr Armitage believes Iraq is still a big drag on Republicans.

He said "many Republicans are running away from the President" as they prepared for the forthcoming mid-term congressional elections.

Mr Armitage was equally gloomy about Afghanistan, especially in the south, where violence was worsening and Australia was deploying a new provincial reconstruction team. "It'll be heavy lifting for them," he said. "Five years after the overthrow of the Taliban, the ordinary people don't see much change in their lives."

Several factors were driving the renewed violence in Afghanistan including drugs which provided money for numerous warlords.

"At the same time, some in Pakistan may believe that the Taliban may come back. The Talibs also see us handing over to NATO and they see some NATO countries as weaker than us."

But Mr Armitage identified the US-Australian alliance as one of the success stories in Bush foreign policy. He paid the ultimate compliment to the Australian Prime Minister: "Howard got everything he wanted."

[Edited to make heading fit]

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Weird situation

by gralfus In reply to George Bush rescues the p ...

We civilized folk have a hard time understanding the extreme factions in these countries. We see them cheer when Saddam's statue is toppled. But then we see them cheer when a British helicopter is downed, and the chant that they are soldiers of Al-so-and-so, and that the evil Christian "crusaders" are worthy of death.

Then, in the name of God, they **** up a wedding party of Muslims. Then they **** up an old folks home full of Muslims. That didn't make sense to me until I heard they were the wrong *kind* of Muslims, and thus heretics worthy of death. And their God of course demands that they kill them since he seems impotent to do so on his own. This would be like the Baptists killing Episcopalians every day for heretical beliefs, and vice versa.

After this, they are outraged and weep into the camera that Americans are killing civilians, whether accidently or on purpose, makes no difference to them. We are obviously worthy of death.

Comedian Lewis Black is right: these people have no sense of humor. They riot and burn over a newspaper cartoon. I guess they didn't see South Park or they'd have already self-combusted. Remember kids, Islam is a religion of peace...Maybe they do have a twisted sense of humor after all.

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Forget their religion for a moment

by JamesRL In reply to Weird situation

This is an oft repeated scenario where a minority manages to rule a country through divide and conquer, the Sunnis ruled a secular government (until Saddam thought he could stay a little longer and became "devout" for the cameras) trying to keep the lid on religious majority in the south, who had alot more in common with their populous neighbours to the east, the the "rebelious" kurds in the north who were very independence minded.

Even with the outside influences of the coalition and the Al Qaeda mischief makers, there still would have been a civil war/coup some day. That is how Saddam took power, thats how he would have left if the west had not invaded. And we would have had many thousands killed in any case.

The thing that unites many of them today in common cause is fighting the outsider. But make no mistake, if the outsider leaves they won't put down their guns. It could get much worse.

As far as Lewis Black is concerned, you could say the same thing about Christianity a few centuries back.

James

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You just missed it. So close, but no cigar

by jdclyde In reply to Weird situation

Islam is a relgion of peace, and they will kill you if you say otherwise.

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Interpretation

by Oz_Media In reply to You just missed it. So c ...

I think the whole reason th eWest is seen as the infidel is due to poor interpretation. It's no different than some of the Christian bible thumpers that go around preching the most absurd issues in teh bible. It is merely interpretation, as the original writer is not available of course.

the Muslim religion for example, which many now say is a religion that says to kill anyone who does not allow you to further your cause is a joke. I know many muslims, they see nothing but peaceful messages in thier religion. Some however see it as defining the West as 'the infidels' and the infidels must be stopped at all costs in order to preserve thier religion.

BUT...IS teh west really the infidel or is it merely some radicals completely f***ed up translation of the message? I woul dsay the latter is more true.

So once again, just as in most other religions, the translation is the cause of the problem.

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Hate is a powerful emotion

by jdclyde In reply to Interpretation

and the most often used to control people. We see this with the Democratic party in the US, and most recently with that wingnut "church" that has been protesting at the funerals of soldiers, saying this is all punishment for accepting gays.

Even in the most EXTREME of modern day Christianity, while gays are not openly accepted, they are not hateful "things" that must be destroyed at all costs. At WORST, lost souls that need to be saved, not attacked.

How sad.

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Exactly - interpretation

by Oz_Media In reply to Hate is a powerful emotio ...

Whil ewe understand that being Gay is not the end of the world and violence will not remove these anti--christs from society. Radicals in Iraq have deemed the US (the entire West as such). Thier translation shows the US as an ememy to be fought until no man is left standing. This is not the interpretation or feelings that most read into the Q'oran though, just a mixed up and off base interpretation of some.

Mush as Christians are not bad people, but SOME Christians spend thier entire lives condemning anyoe who doesnt abide by THIER interpretation of what a good Christian should be.

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But the difference is

by jdclyde In reply to Exactly - interpretation

People stand up to the people that try to distort Christianity into a message of hate, and with the exception for Pat Robertson, most are held accountable by CHRISTIANS.

We do not see this inside influince standing up and being counted inside the Muslim world. It is easier and safer to allow the crazies to make them all look like savage dogs than to stand up to them and bring that same hate down on themselves. Better to be a live dog than a dead person standing up for what is right?

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You don't hear them but

by JamesRL In reply to But the difference is

I have heard and read many interviews since the arrest of the Canadian "home grown" terrorists, and many of those interviewed are high profile Muslims who are taking great pains to condemn the acts of these terrorists. That includes Muslim clerics, Muslim community leaders, Muslim rights groups etc. They are constanly making statements, talking to reporters, writing articles, preaching peace in the mosques etc.

The problem as described is that those who hate go underground. They don't preach it in the mosques here - they find young impressionable kids here attending mosques and they teach them privately and secretly the Wahhabi sect's faith.

It is a MUSLIM group in Canada which is trying to ban a radical imam from the UK from being able to travel to Canada and preach.

The problem is that unlike the Catholic Church, you don't have a hierarchy in the Muslim world. There are many imams in every sect and you can chose to follow which ever one you like. So you don't have the same kind of leaderhsip that exists in some of our Christian churches.

James

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But WHY

by jdclyde In reply to But the difference is

do I not hear them?

Is there a reason this voice would not or should not get out to everyone?

I have actually read more quotes on what nice boys they were, and how the Candian Government is FRAMING them.

Speaking of which, what is happening with the claim that Canadians are torturing the "falsely accused young men"?

For the record, I do not believe this story about framing nor torture. I would like to know how it is being covered in Canada though.

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James: Central leadership

by onbliss In reply to But the difference is

You said:
So you don't have the same kind of leaderhsip that exists in some of our Christian churches.

Sometimes a central leadership or authority can get tyrannical or oppressive or just plainly get in the way of progress. In a loosely set hierarchy, if the clergies still do not raise their sane voice and keep condoning the violence, then it only points to another central entity - THE KORAN (or its interpretations) - playing a more deviant role.

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