IT Employment
by jimbb
This is an ever returning question, and I keep replying the same thing: certifications will give you zippo.
What does a certification tell about you? That you manage to learn theoretical things by heart. They don't say a thing about your personality, how you will fit in a team, how your problem solving skills are, how good you are in identifying the root cause and ignoring all the side effects, things like that. Or, relating to your ambition, it doesn't say a thing about how you will manageyour people, how you'll be able to motivate them to do boring jobs, and so on.
Companies are not interested in certifications. At all. Companies are interested in people that can make their organisation run smooth(er), and that help them be (more) profitable. No certification can give you that.
What-where-how? Certifications have no value? Mmm, didn't say that. A certification can get you easier through HR to get an interview. But once you get that interview you'll have to show allof your other skills, not just wave a piece of paper.
Don't get fooled by people (or training companies...) telling you that a certification guarantees you this or that, or that a combination of certs give you more. They don't know what they aretalking about.
Don't take my word for it, check these older discussions (remove any spaces if they show up):
https://www.techrepublic.com/forumdiscuss/thread_detail.jhtml?thread_id=79833
https://www.techrepublic.com/forumdiscuss/thread_detail.jhtml?thread_id=77143
https://www.techrepublic.com/forumdiscuss/thread_detail.jhtml?thread_id=68033
And I'm sure there are more.
Jim
by gene horton
I agree with you completely Jim. Yes, completely. You did say that the Certifications would get you past HR, right? Well, here's the deal on that: If you don't get past HR, it doesn't matter what kind of tech you are...you won't get the job.
I'm a fifteen year veteran of the IT industry (and out of work) with NO certs. Right now, I can't get past HR people for anything. So, this week, I decided to pursue the A+ just to have one. I also have my mind set to get an MCP. I feel that the MCSE may be a little farther down the line. I'm stronger in hardware, so I would have to do more studying for MS certs.
Any ideas as to how to get past HR before I get the certs?
by er_mendoza
by jimbb
How does the average HR guy decide who will get an interview and who won't? What does the average HR guy know of IT anyway? Err.. something with computers, right? So all he has to base his decision on is "candidate one has x certifications, y years of experience". A simple piece of math. And does that calculation make any sense?
Try to get in touch with someone from the company. Or even, from the niche you're interested in. A discussion platform like TechRepublic is already a great place to start, try exhibitions, training centres, you name it. Because if you don't have the needed items to get passed HR, you have to get around them. For that you need to know what kind of people they need, what kind of job it is, what kind of attitude they expect. And you need to find out who the hiring manager is, and get in touch with her/him. (S)he couldn't care less about certifications, (s)he needs someone that fits in the team, someone that can do the job. Try to get a phone-call, ask what people they look for, be curious. Ask what tools they use, what problems they are typically faced with, what projects they work on. Then and there you can mention your way of working, your experience - and the absence of a cert. If you can convince the hiring manager that you're worth the time for an interview, you have successfully bypassed HR for that. Once you have that interview it's up to you to convince the manager that you're the one they need for the job.
Jim
by jimbb
Hmm, catch 22. No experience will get you no job, then how can you get the experience? The eternal problem for a lot of young people coming from school.
Well, if you cannot get paid experience, how about doing it for free? Have you thought of building a great website, looking like it's done by a pro? How about that school or non-profit organisation that has a problem finding IT people, maybe they would be extremely glad if you proposed to do some job for them for free? The only "payment" you ask is to allow you to mention them on your resume... And that shows more than you think: you don't mind helping people out for free, so this job must really interest you. You did a job that normally only "qualified administrators" (replace that by whatever title your job has) do, so most likely you know at least something about it, despite your "empty" resume. You're not afraid to be "on your own", you can troubleshoot things, you can work independantly/in a team (whatever the job required), and so on.
Remember, a job interview is not about an accumulation of what you've done in the past, it's about what you can do in the future, in your future relationship with yout employer. At least, if the hiring manager knows what (s)he's doing.
Jim
by mddddd
by puleplayer2
First, I'm an old lady of almost 46. I had the same attitude about school at your age and didn't go to college. Now I'm in college struggling to get an AAS degree in IT, as well as struggling to get certified as a CCNA. When I was your age, I hated school with a passion and didn't go to college. Back then college was important but today it's even more important. This is because of the high speed at which technology is moving. Most jobs nowadays (even those for receptionist positions sometimes) want someone with a college degree. A whole lot want a Bachelor's degree plus certification.
So, the lecture here is never, ever talk yourself out of going to the extra effort to attend any type of schooling. Going to school will also show potential employers that you're willing to work hard.
When you go back to school at my age, you'll hate it even more. You're already tired from advanced age, and having to work 40 hours a week, raise children, and go to school in the evenings is sometimes beyond excrutiating torture (especially Cisco classes, lol) makes you beyond exhausted. I can say that I am extremely proud of my college pursuits with a perfect 4.0 average in all course for three years straight! However, having to go to classes in the evening because I have to pay bills by working in the daytime has made this process take too long for a two-year degree.
Take advantage of living at home with the folks, get scholarships, grants, whatever it takes, but get your behind to the college of your choice when you graduate. Go on and get the A+ cert, but back it up with some real education. They make you take business courses, math courses, etc., but they will help you when you enter the working world.
GOOD LUCK! Hope you take my advice. You'll look back when you get older and thank God you did it while you were young!
by mr l
>>..certifications will give you zippo.<<
They'll get you in the door. More than that, given two equal candidates in all other respects, the candidate with the certs will commmand more money, fact.
>>Companies are not interested in certifications. At all. <<
I AM one of those companies...or...a hiring manager for one, and I may very well care depending on the position. You see Jim, that cert may, depending on the interviewing process, tip the scales in favor of one candidate over another. See the above salary example...well, it may apply at a more funhdamental level as well. You and Charlie have interviewed with me for a job, the two of you have equivalent backgrounds, I've decided neither of you has two heads, and that you could both work with of of my teams without them stringing you up in a data closet somewhere. Now it's left to me to decide...oh...wait...Charlie has taken the initiative and time and effort to make an investment in himself by abtaining his MSCE. Is he any better at the job? Maybe, maybe not...but is he likelier to get a shot, with all else being equal? Probably, and you know what? He'll probably get a few thou more to start than you would have.
Like it or not, believe it's fair or not, that's the truth.
by mddddd
by danny
by sukirl
I think everyone is right to a point in this discussion.
Certification prove you know something.. and certain certs carry more weight than others. You can find 'paper' MCSEs but I challenge you to find a 'paper' CCIE or CISSP. When finding a job it depends on the position. IF a company is trying to hire an IT security person, a CISSP can show a proficiency that a job title (Network Engineer) can not. Or it can give an indication of a persons overall expreince when the exact details are classified (as with former military or contractors). Some companies want the 'prestige' of the certification or use them a an initial screening ('If he/she was truely a professional / expreinced ______ they would have a certification proving it.' is a common expression from hireing managers to HR dept.)
However, EXPRIENCE will advance you in a position and get you through an interview. BUT the exact benefit expreince has varies depending on your expreince AND the job. For instance: A small companyneeds a jack-of-all-trades admin. Someone who has 2 years expreince doing just that type of work will most likely get a interview, while a person with 10 years admin expreince on a global network will not because he was focused on email only or usermanagement and does not have the breadth of expreince.
Cutting through the HR / hiring manager red tape is the second form of networking we IT professionals engage in. We talk to each other. I would say that 70% of all employees in government contracting heard about the position they are now in from a freind rather than a job search or advertisment.
The benefits of this type of approach are numerous. The hiring manager has the application come from someone he/she is familar with. The applicant sends his resume directly to the person who needs tosee it.
It this age were company loyalty has disappeared it a puff of smoke, it is employee loyalty to each other that is holding IT professionals together.
by chidi
In other to be a good net admin you must be good in networking ,so you can start with MCNA,.GET a book called networking essentials ,visit a website like ittutor.com
chidi
by gene horton
by pcgregru
by generalist
Some groups look at your past history in terms of credit management and legal entanglements. If you want a job with a bank, you better have a clean financial and criminal record.
Other groups see how well you mesh with the team they already have. If you come across as a know-it-all who has an answer for everything, you may put people off.
Then there are simple things like where you shop, your opinions on education and whether you like sports. If you're trying for an IT job with a grouplike Costco or Home Depot, make sure that you shop in some of their stores occasionally. Be sure that you're pro-education when you try for a job at a university or school district. And show that you know every team and major player in one or moreprofessional sports when you apply for sports oriented jobs.
Being polite and not using profanity also helps. While this should be obvious, there is a portion of the IT population that is clueless about this topic.
by rhollandsc
Very simple, it can’t hurt. As a general rule of thumb: those who are smart and can learn - do so. Those who aren’t - argue on and on about how it doesn’t matter. I have never, without exception, looked at a resume and interviewed a potential candidate and decided against because that person had a certification. To the contrary, I have hired a candidate with less experience because that candidate had a certification.
Even simpler yet, certifications show ability and effort. No matter the team, if you can demonstrate ability and effort your chances are higher for landing a job.
by kmaki
by miket14437
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