Good Bye IT

But when I voice that opinion in public, the response is always "Hell yeah!" or "you ba$tard!" There's seldom any middle ground. Just my opinion...you gotta pay to play and if you can't pay you don't get to play.

I don't feel that's violating anyone's rights at all (there is no "Right to Laziness"), but I could just hear the public outcry if someone actually had the cajones to propose legislation like that. I think it's something every hard working American could get behind, but unfortunately there's a huge number of people out there depending on government aid that would be offended. Like I said though, that aid is for their SURVIVAL, not there amusement. You want to drink and smoke do it with money you earn at a J-O-B, not at the welfare line while I support your kids.

that leaves only one alternative....

I doubt his complaints are even real.

Excellent remarks, Rat. Sometimes IT finds you; mostly though, you've gotta find IT. I've had my share of 'good fortune' through networking and just plain being there. But the positions of value that give me highest return in money/job-satisfaction, well sonny jim, I had to get to it. Long live free enterprise; did someone say union??? Holy s**t, what an excellent idea to encourage IT growth & development---NOT!

x

Like this

When the government here in NZ passed a collection of laws known as employment contracts
It meant employers and employees had to have a contract
I don?t want to go into the details and that is a very simple description of it

Well some of the larger company?s decided they did not want to deal with every person one on one

So that?s where the unions came in
They were able to negotiate a collection of contracts for everyone

It would have cost the companies to much time and money to deal with everyone

What is most interesting about the union debates is

The people who employ want a simple solution unless it becomes hard work

I like how they want everyone to perform but don?t want to deal with them one on one

May be different for you in your country

If you play the victim, you are the victim.

.

You are providing no end of comedy to this place.

EDITED OUT HATE FILLED QUOTE FROM USER jakcap.

You're a personable SOB ain't ya?!?!? I think I am beginning to see why you are failing in the IT market (or any market for that matter!).

Can you see it yet????

Hint: The quote above is one of the most pathetic things I have ever read on TR! Ignorant bigotry does not bode well on an international Tech. forum!

Seriously dude, you'd do well to create a new account and start fresh. Or LEAVE when saying "Goodbye to IT".

Edit: for content

There is no place for that crap here or anywhere but your little kkk meetings.

It isn't hard to see why you can't hold a job.

I understand your frusteration. But people, maybe not yu, but people who choose IT because they think it will pay and not because they are passionate are doomed from the start. They will never be good at it. partly because they dont really want it and arent going to try hard enough. Certification levels mean something but one doesnt get a certification in one hand and a paycheck in the other. Better luck, but Im going to have to file this with "Operator Error"

jealous that Di was getting the "butt sex" and he wasn't ;)
[ do you actually know ANYONE over 12 years old who says butt sex? I don't ]

what a maroon, what an ingnoranimus!

You wouldn?t want to take this discussion seriously

I would have been very disappointed with most of the first level replies and would need to re-evaluate my opinion of the people who posted them

Good to know how someone who complains in these forums will be treated

At least you kept yours short
That is about all I can say about that reply

He uses too much slang that we don't.

Ah well, he could be faking that too, right?

but we can agree that he's a total nincompoop right?

expect to get booted about.

Don't worry about it too much. Consider it pledging TR.

Oh, and it's not so much about disagreement as it is presentation.

This board tends to get savage when someone comes in 'full on' before they're well known.

TR has a lot of comedians

Some of them are at their best when they are being serious

Is just sad when one side is serous and the other is taking the pi55
Or it could be funny if you?re that type of

COD

The er 'descriptive' phrase he used to describe an arab is in british usage.

Perhaps in my haste to disavow any possible connection no matter how remote to this person, I found his claim of US nationality convenient. :(

In fact seeing as we are potentially loosely related enough for concern in this case, him being a member of the etnic group muppet from the nation of Outrightfingmorons of the planet Numpty would make me feel better.

Unfortunately it's all too like he is indeed one of our home grown examples that should have come from there in less imperfect world.

and it's not for lack of sense of humor.

I'm not wacko, I'm autistic, and subtleties often escape me. Simple fact, I'm afraid.

My experience with unions has been less than stellar.

I did not start out in IT, I started out in construction and left when a friend of mine was squished in an accident that could have easily been prevented with a minimum of safety equipment.

The union didn't have time to advocate for safety equipment, as they were too busy fighting for the restoration of a cocaine addled idiot who nearly killed several people after his high wore off and he fell asleep behind the wheel of a sewer truck

when does the comedy start? :p

The harder each employee works, the fewer will be needed to perform the necessary tasks.

When someone wants money from you, you have every right to ask what they want it for and to either loan it or not based upon the answer... and if you find out they lied to you, you have every right to not trust them again.

Personally I'd rather see necessities handed out rather than cash. People who were truly needy wouldn't have a problem with that!

between "laurels" and "haunches".

When I split from my wife at a young age, she wanted to keep our son. I fought and went throught teh legal BS, and was awarded joint custody, BUT, still had to pay her child support, even though we really did have him 50/50. As he grew up, he decided he wanted to stay with me, which was WAAAAAY cool with me, but I STILL continued paying child support. After he was legally living with me, and only me, I STILL paid child support to my ex wife who had him every other weekend (if she could find the time).

He's grown now, I think he'll have a little one soon, and his mother and I have overcome our differences and at least talk in a civil manner now, he lives on his own etc. What surprises me is that I don't have to pay her child support now, I guess men do come out on top one day. (tongue planted firmly in cheek).

Actually OZ, I guess in some ways I had it better than you and JD. As his Mother just did NOT want to be a mother! For my son though, not so much. It used to (still does) break my heart when he would ask about his mother. I never bad mouthed her, only made excuses, which made him want her in his life even more, which was the ONLY reason I set out for any kind of legal justice. I had NO problem being both father and mother (both emotionally and financially) to my son but I thought 'IF' she had to pay child support, then MAYBE she would want to be a part of his life (she broke his little heart way to many times and ways for me to do nothing). She was ordered to pay child support, she was granted visitation rights, was supposed to see him at least once a month or notify myself and the court, she did none of these things. When I HAD papers and went to try and have them enforced is when I was told "If you were a woman ..."!! It still galls me to no end!

In all fairness though, I did have MY mother close by while he was growing up. He was her first grandchild and the light of her life. She was more of a Mother to him than the one who gave birth to him ever was! So he DID have a positive female role model in his life, just not his mom. Which everyone should be so lucky to have ? a caring Mother that is. I know I miss mine, as does my son, we lost her 1 year 10 months ago ? nothing will ever be the same. Walk on Tigger ? Walk on ...

Must digress ?

On the same note ? Good for you and JD and ANYONE, male or female, who does right by their children and be damned the ones that don't!!!

From the sound of it, it was worth EVERY penny you had to pay her to raise your child! Sounds kinda funny to say ? but still feels all warm and fuzzy! Good on ya mate! :)

Until our posts cross paths again ? Take care OZ!

on how your whole perception of what is important in life doesn't completely change the first time you look at your new baby.

Now that my boys are 15 (16 in a few weeks) I am just starting to do some of the "Me" activities I gave up so I could be with the boys. Dart night is tonight, and is my one activity I do just for myself. Well, that and look for willing female victims.... ]:)

Talking to a hot little thing lately, and she is very recently divorced.

Abusive (mentally and physically) as well as having several open affairs. His luck has gone south and is trying to get back (so he will have a place to live) and is treating her as if SHE was the bad guy (typical manipulation).

For the last 15 years he has been trying to F her up the ~BEEP~, and she always said no. I gave her the idea for a little revenge to tell him "You know, you were right. It IS fun that way!" ]:) [i](no, I hadn't even laid a hand on her YET, but he didn't know that)[/i]

It has been eating him up. "Thats not FAIR!"

He has brought it up to her several times now, and is so bummed out that he thinks she did that for someone she had just met while she wouldn't with him in the 15 years and three kids they spent together.

Ah, it makes me smile...... :D ;\

"[ do you actually know ANYONE over 12 years old who says butt sex? I don't ] "

Lol, I do all the time! Makes it sound almost innocent and harmless after a few drinks with my girl-friend. It's all in the approach.

:)

I actually had a great time raising my son, he was eager to follow me around and partake in what I was doing. Helped me work on cars, taught him to weld before he was 10, was coach of his ball team etc. In essence, my time was our time, as was his. We just have very similar interests, even today, and always enjoyed sharing our day together. Yes, I am one lucky SOB!

I stopped playing darts with him when he started beating me, sore sport and all. darts has always been my thing, started when I was too young/small to pull my own darts out of the board and 30+ years later can still group arrows with the best of them.

I only took him to England three times (once on tour)but he seems to have picked up a kack for downing the Guinness and hurling the arrows (making me oh so proud!) "That's ma boy!"

On another note, his mom isn't that bad really. She just had some issues she couldn't deal with and it took her a few years to get on track again, we now have a somewhat sane friendship but it took a while.

You must have missed it because it was absent the smiley's. [b](NEWSFLASH![/b] Sorry just popped into my head whil typing your name of course, [b]IRON MAIDEN in VANCOUVER JUNE 2!) Can't dsee that they are playing MI, but they do have OH scheduled of you want a day trip with the boys. They are coming back with a blast from the past tour,"Somewhere Back in Time" all the pyramids and mummies from Powerslave, all tunes will be pre87, with Aces High as the opener!!!![/b]

[i]"Not every field of work is inspirational or interesting
But it is up to the employer to keep the people in those fields interested"[/i] Surely you jest!
uhhh, no it isn't. It is up to the employee to choose a career suitable for his/her needs, whether monotonous or not. It is also up to the employee to keep him/herself motivated and interested, without that they should move on. A union has NOTHING to do with it nor is a solution to such a problem.

Seeing the humour yet?

"Incentives can range from money to task management" okay so he's not suggesting the employer keeps teh employee entertained at all, he is suggesting the employer offers incentive to the employee or else the employer deserves to face unionization. Obviously disregarding the intent of a union and seeing it as a way to simply force cash security. So a lazy union employee, can get an annual raise while doing less work each year.

Now this is gettign funny! [i]"A thing you need to know about me
If I think you?re a wacko all you are going to get is my version of comedy
Same if you have no funny bone"[/i]
UUUUUHhhhhh, yeah, whatever. (WHACKO!) Lobo!

[i]May have to go find the TR prophet Balthor
Man is that guy deep
After all #60 of the top 100
What a hard working performer he is[/i]

okay now obviously this guy didn't watch Woodstock, [b]YOU WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE BROWN ACID, MAN!!!!!![/b]

:D

yeah this guy is funny, but I don't think we see the same sense of hunour he thinks he is putting forth. Laughing AT him instead of WITH him.

Long and short, if your company doesn't entertain you and shoewer you with gifts and goodies to keep you working, start a union because unions shower employees with enough to keep themn interested in thier work.

Actually NOT: unions just make sure that people who are bored will stay on for decades due to seniority pay, removing jobs for those who WANT them while paying the old timers twice as much to do half as much work. Seen it all too many times before, and I've been on the GOOD side of that fence.

nt

I only take the ones the doc gives me

Seriously guys

2 Points
Not all unions are bad
Not all employers are good

Unless you are in the UK or USA so it seems
You guys must have fantastic employers and totally evil unions

Locrian is that plan enough for you
Your problems with unions may have been the type of job you were doing it the time
Many of the unions here have had to push for safety in the work place

Our government has passed regulations that may as well say
If someone got injured you were wrong

That put the cat among the pigeons
For both Employer and employee

JD forget it
It?s over your head

OZ what is with the spelling?
You could at least try to read your own replies before submitting them

"Not every field of work is inspirational or interesting
But it is up to the employer to keep the people in those fields interested"
Don?t treat good workers like shit
Get off your ass and work hard it?s not just for the lower ranks
Unless you?re a lazy slob
If you want people to work hard for you work hard at making it happen

It is up to you to employ the right person for the right job
It is up to you to make sure the right people are doing the right work and keep it that way
Its called management (remember what that is now)

Union? WTF are you on about
Don?t you know what the full union treatment means?

So you don?t like unions I would have never guessed
As for the rest of what you wrote
WTF
What fucking drugs did you take at woodstock

Jesus you guys are thick

And is sorely lacking in both union and non-union shops.
Thanks for that.

like all the unions in America, they are fading fast. Fortunately OH will retire soon, before his employer gets the unbounded opportunity to work the older guys to ground.

that you don't come across the types who view you as a 'resource', thereby objectifying you into a 'thing' rather than a 'who'.
Things are disposable. Get used to it or don't leave your house.

edit the usual

You are not looking like anyone I would care to have using my posts to defend himself.

Way to much information JD & FS!!!

Excuse me while I go scrub my eyeballs!

It is something you WANT to do more than anything else in the world, not something that sucksass because you have to give up everything because of rugrats.

You GAIN the kids and everything that goes with it.

So cool you kept that bond strong with your boy.

ThingOne and ThingTwo will be 16 in a few weeks, and I still get my hug hello/goodbye, even if the whole swim/track team is standing there. Such a cool thing.

[i]"That was so funny I forgot to laugh....."

I can't tell if he's trying to be serious, snarky, sarcastic, caustic or just rude.

I suspect a combination of all of the above.

And all the certifications and experience and education means nothing anymore. Management does not want talented staff for information tech support. They want cheap Bangalore labor with no health care costs. It is that simple.

Americans have taken it on the chin, particularly for IT, since the Bush administration came in lockstep with the Department of Commerce and back the idea as a great thing. Lou Dobbs is a lone voice against outsourcing jobs.

There is NO FUTURE for new college students here to go into information tech anymore. I would advise not to go near it. Your job means nothing if you get one and if you do, and you are outsourced, well .... thanks and do you want an email survey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhweCCwgXqQ

This about says it all!! It was "our" song (still is).

Oz, everything you described fits me and my boy to a T, almost, reckon that'd make it an I! ;) Coached him in baseball, went everywhere together, etc. All except darts, the boy (I still call him that) loves to take on the 'ol man at eight ball.

"You can keep your TV and your night clubs"

:)

you never heard something funny before! :p

Providing mental anguish to those that are deserving is a very full filling way to spend your time! :D

So Locrian, you like to be a gentleman and push in your wifes stool? :0

You're just WRONG, dude!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

You're just WRONG, dude!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

Hmm, I only submitted this post once and it doubled up on me????? Strange...

That was Lisa Lupner and her boyfriend, Todd. (Gilda Radner and Bill Murray). I'm so glad that there is someone who is old enough here (besides me) to remember those classics.

:)

I'm confused...is he being funny or sarcastic? Obviously I'm not intelligent enough to get it!

As for the rest of you...thanks for the Bill Murray flashback! I need to go download Caddy Shack, now!

REALLY miss it, "Jane you ignorant slut!"
now that kinda stuff doesn't really raise the bar these days but at the time was about as cutting edge as TV got.

Andy Kaufman, Garret Morris, John Belushi, Gilda Radner man what a show that USED to be.

A place to live.
Food to eat.
Clothes to wear.

Maybe even a bus pass so they can get to and from job interviews?

NO money for cigs
NO money for drugs and there should be MANDITORY testing that you are drug free to get assistance.
NO money for booze
NO money for cell phones
NO money for cable TV or TV's.

It should NOT be comfortable and should NOT be more than a VERY temporary thing.

good to know someone else can't figure this guy out

He is a REAL "friend [b]IN[/b] the end"? :0

It would be his life partner's stool.

:D
but hey, when the bar gets too crowded he can at least flip over a stool for him and three friends to share.

Well I opened the trusty old dictionary

Necessary
1. Needful, requisite, that must be done
2. Unavoidable, inevitable

Necessity
1. Something needed, requisite
2. Constraining power or state of affairs
3. Compulsion
4. Poverty

JD you forgot medicine and health care

And as a lot of people through the CENTURIES have gotten along just fine without free healthcare, people unwilling to work for a living can too.

The econuts out there should embrace this, as they say all along the biggest threat to the Earth is the over population. Go back to "survival of the fittest" and let nature start to improve the human race again, instead of continually move it backwards by paying the lowest denominators to breed more low denominators.

I go back to that in my mind, too, when I get wrapped up in all the rhetoric nowadays. As you point out, also, the oldest solution in the world may be found in the past. You die. No problem.

when techies say things like "Go back to "survival of the fittest" and let nature start to improve the human race again" given that everything "tech" is designed to make life 'easier' or more 'convenient'; help the physically impaired contribute to the gene pool; and ensure that the source of the actual necessities (food and water for those who don't know) are controlled by someone other than oneself. Utterly unnatural in its own right.

The weakening of the human species can be attributed to several sources.

;)

edit the usual. Criminy, I even missed the edit button today!

rattle rattle thunder clatter boom boom boom.

yeah, a freaking typo

Are you saying we should get ride of the elderly the disabled and the sick?

When I wrote medicine
I was thinking of diabetics and the other people who need something extra just to live
Not hospital care

Other wise I have no problem with getting ride of everyone with over inflated egos god complexes the insane the stupid the obsessive and the lazy
Think I covered about 90% of the population and 99% of forum users

Cheers

Blame OZ
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=257726&messageID=2461858

And JD
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=257726&messageID=2461189

JD is just trying to be a smart a55

Don?t know wtf OZ has been drinking

Really you don?t get this?

May have to go find the TR prophet Balthor
Man is that guy deep
After all #60 of the top 100
What a hard working performer he is

Anyway wish we had SNL back then would have been better than the crap they showed at the time

Don?t worry Locrian you just got caught in the fall out
You seem like an ok guy to me

This has been fun but after trying to post a reply 10 times and getting nowhere (About 10)
Not to mention the other idiot things that keep happening
I have had enough of this site

It?s the weekend
Time to go back to the real world

Do you REALLY want to go back to that? We can see that operating in Africa - the Congo, the Sudan, Zimbabwe, etc - and THEIR branch of the Human Race doesn't seem to be getting any fitter for anything other than the ability to survive rape and torture and kill in return.

If you are going to ask for "survival of the fittest", please define "fittest" for me. I'm not sure that I particularly want to live in a society where we would consider not treating the likes of Professor Steven Hawking's MND and miss out on twenty years of his brilliance. We, as a society, should be better than that.

The Human gene-pool is huge and fairly homogeneous and we aren't going to influence change in it in any large way by anything but by massive reduction in the population - and I mean down to low millions or lower.

Changes in society is, I think, what you think that you want so that you can have more of YOUR money for fixing YOUR furnace. I don't have a problem with that but so long as we have politicians running things, it isn't going to happen without a revolution.

Neil :D

If your company develops software that is sold then one of your company developers salary component shoud be a percent share of the profit.
Other wise what is the motivation.
Can't slave an artist or a genius.
Better said, can't get the best of an artist or genius by exploting him or her.
Besides you should not try to.
Some companies will spend large amounts on marketing while paying the least they can get away with to their product makers.

We dont need a Union????? Read the article on CA layoffs!!

Tech jobs were outsourced abroad and then there was the importing of foreigners on special visas to work here in the US. Our own citizens were downsized out of a job and replaced by those overseas or here at home by foreigners. I recall in one case where some Tech workers gave on site training to imported workers and when training was completed, the US citizen workers were escorted out of the building. There is no "brain drain" but US citizens who realized they are not valued by Corporate America retooled in started new job fields.

http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzca05,0,262898.story

http://www.techsunite.org

TV REPAIRMEN FROM ENGLAND/AUSSIESEPTIC,
IT DEPARTMENT HEADS,
AND GENERAL CORP BROWNNOSERS NEED NOT REPLY!!!

I'm gross and perverted
I'm obsessed and deranged
I have existed for years and
very little has changed... ;\

I stopped going to School because there is just a lack of hope anywhere out there. I live in the new third World Detroit. I was a Machinist/Machine builder/Tool&Die Maker/Tool Maker and I have not seen any good employment since 2000 everything is just lying head hunters and B.S. the old saying the only thing an employer has to pay you for is the work that you have already done does not even count. I gave up the schooling when I seen that it was going to take a Two year Degree and 8 to 10 thousand dollar worth of certifications to get a $7.00 dollar an Hour job in the MS area.

you all strayed from the point i was trying to get across. IF the government is to hand out money because you claim you need it, the $$$ should ONLY be spent on food. Clothes will be passed out at good will based on a qualification on your license/id...which will also contain data that will not allow you to buy booze/cigs/firarms. You get the same treatment if you are handed out government housing.

There needs to be two systems instead of the one we have now. One for people who are disabled or elderly. Another for people who are out of work or on limited income. The unemployment office and welfare office are right up the street from my workplace. That guy getting welfare stamps shouldn't have an iPhone on his belt and a Yukon on 22's in the parking lot. If you're on government assistance you need to be working on getting off of it...not aquiring more property.