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Heres some media triva

By HAL 9000 Moderator ·
Ok people here?s something different it came to me in a news article and apparently at Melbourne Airport the new security measures are picking up anyone who uses aftershave or hand cream as a suspected terrorist, as the equipment is picking up these traces as explosive residue. So to be safe to travel in Australian Airways you have to have a beard and rough hands.

Now who wants to be first in line for a strip & body cavity search?

While I'm all for security this is just a little over the top and I can't help but wonder what are they telling their passangers now. Arrive 2 hours early so we can strip search you before you are allowed near the departure lounge?

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Second Amendment

by john_wills In reply to Heres some media triva

The U.S. is now going to insist on something at least as foolish: that aircraft coming from abroad, or even flying over the U.S., have "marshals" aboard, with firearms. It just does not seem to have occurred to the honcho concerned that people have a right to a gun-free environment, or that the U.S. obsession with guns is a recurring thread in the karmic pattern which unfolded in September 11.

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You think so?

by Oldefar In reply to Second Amendment

That obsession goes back at least to 1785, so is the karma pattern really relevent?

The armed marshalls is on selected flights based on intelligence gathering that would indicate a particular flight at risk. You make a good point on a right of other nations to have gun free environments, but we need to keep the request in context. An alternative would be to ban these particular flights from US airspace, or to establish a higher level of security validation prior to their departure, or to add unarmed marshalls capable of suppressing a terrorist group in flight using alternative methods.

Perhaps a better international response might be to place responsibility for stopping terrorism on every individual? A personal duty for all peace and freedom loving people to act in the face of terror? Let's see, 6 billion people, less than 1 million terrorists, looks like the odds would favor us if we all had the courage to take a stand in the face of danger.

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Some Nations are balking

by TheChas In reply to You think so?

I heard on the news today that some of the nations want more details as to what the specific risk is.

There was even a question about just stopping the specific flight.

My question is are these measures actually making things safer?
Or, are they just being taken to give the impression of safety and improved intelligence?

For that matter, what is the actual consequence of 1 or more firearms being discharged in flight?

What will happen when a bullet shatters a window or pierces a critical wire or hydraulic line?


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Since were talking Comerical Airliners here

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Some Nations are balking

It could range from explosive decompression depending on rxactly how high the aircraft actually is to something far more serrious as all modern comerical aircraft are now fly by wire and most of that wire is Kaptain {I think thats how it's spelt}which doesn't have a great safety record anyway but of more concern is what would happen if a projectile was to find its way into the avionics bay and damage some vital equipment.

From my understanding the Air Marshals are susposed to be carring low powered firearms that will not punture the aircraft skin but there is still a lot of electronic equipment that will remain vunerable and that doesn't take into account the people who are intent on hijacking the aircraft as they will not be the slighest bit concerned about bring it down even if they fail the reach their target they will at least have done something the shatter any belief that it is safe to fly.

Anyway all comerical aircraft are susposed to hqave triple redundant systems on them but there are still areas where these systems must come into contact with each other as an example you can not have a trippple redundant rudder control without all three systems acting on the rudder.

I'm not so concerned about the hydrolic systems as these are fairly well isolated from each other except from where they start and end but the Avonics is an area of concern for me as all this equipment is confined in a small area of the airframe and easily damaged.

Anyway it is still safer to fly around than to drive a car so I can't see that changing quickly for "Local" trips and by that I mean ones within a land mass like the USA Canada or Europe but it would prove impossible to drive from the USA to the UK but it might be interesting trying.

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do think so

by john_wills In reply to You think so?

There are very many threads in the karmic pattern, but without the U.S. gun culture we would almost certainly have a lot less violence and so fewer examples of violence lying before those with their own temptations to violence. For one thing the West would not have been nearly so wild.
I used to visit my grandmother-in-law at Leisure World, a gated retirement community in Seal Beach CA. When I first went the guards were armed with pistols. After a while they weren't any more; one of them told me the guns had been "too darned dangerous"; I suppose something must have happened, though I am sure it was not of the Ahmadou Diallou variety. Without the guns the residents are just as safe, apparently.
I am not saying the Second Amendment is the most important part of the U.S. Constitution to change (a more important change is proposed in my book Albatross 0-595-19418-4), but Tom Ridge, the homeland security guy, really should be aware that gun proliferation is more part of the problem than of the solution.

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I am not so sure

by Oldefar In reply to do think so

On the surface it may seem that Americans have a real problem because of gun proliferation. However, it seems to me that where guns are a real concern is with criminal activity. The stories of the Old West are mostly bull, and the swaggering cowboy with his six shooter, ready to settle any dispute with a fast draw, is Hollywood myth.

Real gun violence seems more related to several key events. First was post civil war where the Southern irregulars continued to engage in guerella tacktics - bank and train robberies, some terror activities aimed at old enemies and newly freed slaves.

Next was the Prohibition era, which gave rise to both organized crime on a large scale and a dramatic increase in the use of firearms. Had booze not been outlawed, the violence would not have occurred because the criminal incentive of high profit from violent action would not have existed.

Finally, the Drug War has created a new opportunity for high profit from violence among criminals, and an added problem of making criminals of users and forcing them to seek quick access to large amounts of money. Again, dropping the illegal aspect of the core issue would likely result in dropped prices, dropped profits, and disinterest by the true criminals. The violence would drop dramatically.

Even with the government induced violence from drug policy, most of us in the US have never encountered even the immediate threat of violence from firearms as ordinary citizens.

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I have to agree here with you Oldefar

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to I am not so sure

However Politicaly Incorrect it may be I'm against probition in any form as it only makes criminals out of normally honest law abiding people.

There is also the "Danger" aspect of induldging in these activities as well if everything ewas legal and the governemnt collected an excise on these products I bett that it would be a far smaller problem than it currently is and it would certianly remove the Criminal Element from the equasion.

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by jkaras In reply to do think so

I do believe that Karma comes and goes as a reflection of your behavior, but people choose to do violence. They do these acts due to greed, ego, and pride to gain respect/fear from others. They will do these acts with or without guns. You cant remove guns from society anymore than you can remove nuclear warheads. With this comes responsibility to make the right choices rather than the wrong ones. Sorry but you have to fight fire with fire sometimes. I'm sure if your on a flight or a loved one gets highjacked you'll be screaming for proper protection. If its puncturing of the vessel your worried about they could use rubber bullitts to avoid damage to the plane or taser guns. I dont like people getting hurt but bad people dont play by the rules so too bad so sad if they die while trying to hurt others, to me that's Karma baby.

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What rock you live under?

by TomSal In reply to Second Amendment Marshals have been on planes for decades now dude. Obviously way before 9/11 happened.

I know someone who IS an Air Marshal (ex USMC Sniper / 3rd Dan Black Belt --- yeah I wouldn't mess with him either.. lol)

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The naked traveler

by Oldefar In reply to Heres some media triva

How about we all arrive two hours early, remove all of our clothes which are then searched, cleaned, pressed, placed on hangers in the baggage hold. On to a shower and **** dry and off to our assigned seats.

I ask you, can a naked man intimidate the crew or passengers? What would he shoot with? How many passengers would shoot back?

Minus the artificial prestige offered by clothing, new and lasting friendships could be formed based on real aspects of the people! Business leaders, politicians, and celebrities of all types would have to stand on their own without external trappings. Bigots, bullies, and swaggarts would have to face the world with only the capabilities provided by their creator.

Added advantages - travelers would likely focus more on healthy life styles. The drop in medical expenses from this would probably pay for the showers and clothes cleaning in the first year.

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