IT Employment
This is page 2 of the discussion. Read the opening post
by redskin
One thing I learned young in life C. Y. A. COVER YOUR ASS
get everything in writing from him, keep emails, keep anything.
I have been accused by many co workers who are computer
inept about computer and tryu and tell me the Administrator
how to do things. I have been in the booses office more times
than you can count because I will not change or modify policy
for someone so then they accuse me of thigns that are untrue.
Keeping a copy of policies, Keeping paperwork, and reminding
boss that I do not tell them how to do thier job gets me through.
After a time of him showing his ineptitude goto his supervisor
with examples and all the paperwork you have kept and write
out what you want to discuss with him before you talk with him/
her.
by i_am_hellion
There are often are extraneous circumstances that affect a manager's decisions for sure.
However I must agree with previous posters, that the written skills you have demonstrated here, if representative of your "managerial" skills, really do not represent "modern conflict resolution" methods.
I personally am appalled that you take this attitude with an unknown, and wonder what you would be like to talk to in person.
Perhaps you should refrain from drinking more "Powerade", as your well appears to be full .... of yourself. Many "non-managerial" types that have replied have demonstrated better managerial skills than you currently employ.
If you were my manager and resorted to derogatory language / mannerisms as displayed here you would find yourself a) in front of a formal revue, b) sitting in your office with ringing ears from my verbal discourse or c) (worse case scenario) waking up on the floor with a sore jaw.
I don't see you as "saving the team" as much as hiding valid concerns, a glossing over issues.
Perhaps you should seriously think before you speak/write both here and in real life.
Just my opinion.
by johanv
I do not have to qualify, quantify or justify my managerial capabilities to you as I have a team & board of directors who support and have faith in the decisions I make.
I will leave you with this question though. Do you feel you accomplish much with the arrogance & posturing behaviour? I certainly doubt you will ever attain a management position (or hold it for very long) with views as expressed by yourself. Sir / Madam, please learn respect as you are demonstrating very little with musings of violance & verbal abuse towards people in authority.
Sir/Madam,
I read your post several times as well as all of the messages in the subthread. Personally, I am very puzzled at your reference to "derogatory language/mannerisms" and your overblown umbrage at the post from the manager. While I am not a manager, I do try to work from the big picture view and, quite frankly, if you worked for me, I would fire you in a heartbeat. You have forgotten that the manager's job is to focus on the task at hand and the overall benefit/health of the team and company (not necessarily in that order). It is very obvious to me that you lack any conflict resolution methods, modern or otherwise, and your anger is misplaced.
Now before you start thinking that I am the archetypal "Yes" man, read some of my other posts in this thread. While I have worked for some very evil weasels who would give Machiavelli a run for his rubles, most managers are people just like you and I, with their own faults and foibles. You would do well to use empathy and try to project your reaction if you were in their place. Don't spend 30 seconds on it as most do; you are far too intelligent to give this excerise short shrift.
by nsim3008
by zminns
by kandra.young
by lodai
Wow, I did not expect to get the amount of responses that I did. Lots of thought provoking advice. There is a update to this situation which I view as a good thing... Some responsibilities have been taken away from him.
I thank everyone for their comments, advice and recommendations. I have spent some of my hard-earned cash and am getting some extra training under my belt to aid my career in the IT industry. I like what I do. (just don't like the freaking politics).
Two things I have realized are that TRUST and COMMUNICATION are key in any relationship (professional, personal..ect). If you don't have one you don't have the other and you need help! (which is why I posted)
Thanks again
This advice presupposes that there is someone higher up the chain to whom one can appeal on a rational basis. This is not always the case. In fact, it sounds as though this is definitely not the case for the originator of this thread.
My advice is to learn to take pleasure in things other than work and/or look for a better job. Life is too short to be made miserable by a bad boss.
I've seen this sort of situation before, and I can tell you what is going to happen with a reasonable assurance that it is now time for you and possibly some of your fellow workers to leave this business behind. If your Boss has any where near reasonably competent Bosses, they will find out that (s)he is incompetent, and when they do, they will notify HR to terminate his/her employment. What will then happen is that his/her sycophant friend in HR will tell him what is going down so that he will be able to get people like yourself who know that (s)he is incompetent, out of the business on some trumped up issue. Regardless of the truth of it, you will be terminated and your termination papers will state that you are a trouble maker and that your co-workers were a "problem group", and there goes your reputation and any possibility of a decent position in the future. Don't think that it cannot happen, because it has happened many times in the past, and it will continue to happen time and time again. On the other hand, if your Boss's Bosses are of the same stripe as your Boss, the business is going to go down big time, and everyone there is going to be out of work, and once again you and your fellow workers are going to have a hard time gaining a good job, because you should have seen the crash coming in time to get out. This particularly applies to IT employment. So get out now, and when you leave, don't tell them why, because they can still tar you with the "trouble maker" and/or "problem group" tags.
RealAusTech.
by dashx
Yes, I do have a suggestion: Learn to live with it or leave. I myself have worked for the "C managers" (still do) and believe me, friends and neighbors, weasels are like a beaucracy: once entrenched, nearly impossible to get rid of. Read some of my other posts in this thread for full details on how to deal.
Just remember to put yourself in your manager's shoes whenever you feel put upon and think about how you would make those decisions, and here is the really important part, IN CONTEXT. You may find it is not the manager who is causing you pain, but only your perception of the moment and a lack of larger perspective. This won't always be the case; you may be working for a truly evil weasel. If so, run fast and far.
by dancer1117
"Work would be Great if it Weren't for the People: Ronna and her Evil Twin's Guide to Making Office Politics Work for You"
It has a lot of practical, realistic advice.
by stepmonster
I read a few exerps and opinions first, then found it on ebay for 1 cent plus $3.85 shipping. So I'll read it this weekend and post my thoughts.
I have been logging my micromanagers' "acts" for almost 2 years now, have filed a few official complaints, but since I see no action from management, I'm left feeling that "this town ain't big enough for the both of us."
Thanks y'all.
by workin4$$$
Try this book. "The 48 Laws of Power."
It teaches what moves to make and when. Like "The Art of War" for the office, or anywhere.
Good-luck
by stepmonster
by jbartlett
I worked for a "self made man" type who was a real hardass and could only see things his way. He gave me every crappy little job to do primarily to humiliate me and justify my paycheck. Even though I was the Customer Service Manager I was given the job of managing the various office security systems, which was a loathsome task.
When I quit I changed all of the passwords so there was no possibliity that the system could be compromised and put them in a letter on his desk. This is the kind of guy who have sued me if he thought the system was compromised, so this was a CYA with a twist. His work habits were quite disorganized so I decided to exploit that weakness by placing the envelope right in the middle of his desk where we would never pay any attention to it. I figured it would cause some anxiety when they needed to access the system and had to get him to look on his desk for it. Turns out he threw the letter away without opening it and then hired some idiot to take over that part of my job. Of course they had to reprogram the entire system because the passwords were thrown in the garbage.
The only way I could ever get peace of mind in this job was to quit. The bonus was when they called looking for the information I left with the owner and had to hire two people to do my job. It didn't get me anything more than the personal satisfaction of knowing I did my job well.
by simonodell
No wonder many IT teams end up with managers like this if there are people out there taking this sort of approach! My advice is to not fall into the age old trap of traditional organisational structures of being part of the hierarchy! Many people can not grasp the fact that leadership can come from within a team, it doesn?t have to come from those with positional power. Those that rise above the obstacles put in their way make it to the top, leaving manager like the one described behind!
Why not take a different approach and build an effective relationship with your manager. Understand there world and adapt to there style. Once you have done this you will be surprised how they actually begin to listen to you. Why is ?NO? the only option and yet it becomes a ?yes? when more senior managers get involved? Only then can you effectively begin to change the behaviour to something more positive.
These situations are often greater than an individual. Is it something you can change or is it the culture of the organisation? My personal view is if the culture doesn?t allow for this type of behaviour he won?t last long anyway. Don?t be so na?ve to think he can continue to ?pull the wool? over peoples eyes in an organisation that has a culture that doesn?t allow this type of behaviour. If the culture allows it though, maybe it?s you who should consider a move, for you good of your own career!
by brent
Right on. I may be fresh out of school, but I think that gives me the ability to look at this in an unobjective manner. You're right.
Anyone who's ever wanted to make a move towards the top and keep a firm foundation of support beneath them as they move, knows that usurping authority is not the way to do it. All that will get you is an office full of sharks waiting for you to fall off of the boat.
To be sucessful, you must adapt, you can't force others to adapt or die. This is business, not the Amazon. One of the major points taught in all of my leadership and management classes, is that you have to understand whom you are dealing with. If something you disapprove of is going on, you can't just push it out of your way and expect it to not happen again.
I think what should be done in this management situation is definitely again of understanding the manager in question. Find out why he does things the way he does them. Only after knowing his motivations can you affect change in his management style.
Don?t be so na?ve to think he can continue to ?pull the wool? over peoples eyes in an organisation that has a culture that doesn?t allow this type of behaviour
Pul-lease!! This sort of thing exists everywhere! Inept bosses/managers who made it to that position by some sort of miracle, or from knowing the right people - NOT from their skills, and any desire/ability to communicate.
If you truly think that just talking to this person and trying to understand his style will work, you have not been in the workforce very long yourself. Horrible bosses, or those who love to be brown-nosed are everywhere.
Leadership OFTEN comes from within a strong team. The problems are many - these true leaders are not being recognized (and often, slimy bosses go out of their way to make sure it does not happen), and they are not being paid the leadership salaries. To assume that leadership will always be seen, noted and promoted is truly naive.
Each company has their own way of dealing with people. If the OP's boss was somehow wedged himself into a position of favor, you can't do a thing about it. What you CAN do, is what someone else suggested - DOCUMENT out the wazoo. Every no, every scoff, every equipment purchase turndown, document it. Back up your documentation. When someone calls about a problem, indeed, quote the big cheese. It will get back to him soon enough. The responsibility for the bad decisions and lack of true leadership needs to fall back on the poor management where it belongs.
Meanwhile, I'd be looking for another position. Do you REALLY want to work for a company who thinks your current boss is top notch material? Dust off your resume, upgrade your skills and start looking for yourself. At the end of the day, the only one who will care about your job (or lack of it, or any contentment whatsoever with your job) is YOU. Not your current boss, not your boss' boss, not even the CEO. No one but you. So, what do YOU want to do? network and find a company whose style fits more closely with your own. Good luck to you -
by hmx
as much as HR would like you to believe this, they're not on *your* side on this--their job is to prevent the firm from getting into trouble ... and it sounds like the environment is already poisoned for you.
the last time i was in a situation like this 5/7ths of us got new jobs ... we did the escalation thing with no joy and it was easier and smarter to just leave. we all ended up resigning on the same day, which made *some* impression ...
they'll keep badmouthing you after you leave anyway--i was accused of being the 'ring leader' in this particular case ...
by angry admin
by givemejava
success on merit and organization are not mutually exclusive. With a boss this political, you can never succeed on merit, you only set yourself up for abuse.
Remember that unions are the folks that got you the 5 day work week and the 40 hour work week. Now that people have swallowed the lie that unions are bad, we return to the 60 hour work week with NO job protection.
by sjohnson175
by workin4$$$
If you think and act like a manager, people will see you as one.
If you think and act like an employee who wants to work a 40 hour work week, people will see you as one.
Form a Union, and your boss will finally realize what he always knew. You're all lazy and over-paid. Now you want to do less and get paid more.
Good luck.
Sometimes, the solution to a morale problem is just to fire all the unhappy people.
by jbartlett
Under your rating system I'm an "A" manager working for a "C" manager.
I work every day at not taking the easy "C" solutions to the difficult problems. I wish more of the managers I have worked would do the same.
I believe much of the survivablity of the political manager is due to the low value the majority of companies place on soft skills and the lack of measurement systems for anything other than hard quantitative number-based measures. Given that most companies are goaled on short-term financial results its far too easy for upper management to focus on profit, cost, production quotas etc as the barometer than it is to gauge the social health of an organization.
If the manager you are working for is a problem and most of the others are "OK" then it may be worth tyhe effort and risk to try and chnage behaviour or get that person reprimanded or fired. If the majority of the other managers are similar then it is a lost cause to even attempt to change the whole organization or divisiaon or department. Your only choice to either come to terms with it or leave. If you try to outwit the political manager you will most likely loose. You're fighting the battle on their level and their turf and that is two strikes against you before you even start.
by givemejava
This will work if
1. The CEO is the type who will actually read something like this and take it in the spirit in which it is given and
2. You are very specific and not personal. By that I mean you document that on this date, the manager should have done X, for this very good reason but (s)he did A and it had these bad impacts. You should make sure these are not incidents specific to you, as that singles you out. So you may want to take the form
"On Monday he did this to Fred. Fred is a great employee becauase he can...
On Tuesday he did this to Jane. Jane is a great employee because she can..."
You are NOT Fred or Jane.
by jerry_dawson
It's a bad position to be in, but the one thing I've found with bad managers like this, is that you spend a lot of time doing their work for them and covering their mistakes. The most effective thing I found was simply to stop doing it. So when the bosses say "Why wasn't this done?", the answer is "We didn't have the tools/time/training/whatever to do it" That's your manager's fault - so let him carry the can.
cheers
jerry
by mrsgarbers
There has to be one of your team members who can play into him. Tell him the things he wants to hear and pretty much become a "mole" in a sense.
Your going to have a long road ahead of you because he knows how all of you feel about him but if there is someone who his boss will listen to, then that is the way you will need to go.
Politics in the office is a tricky game...one that most IT people (in my experience)HATE playing. It is, however, a necessary evil.
We have one of those here as well. He whines, back stabs and takes credit for solutions we provide. I just compliment him, smile a lot and pretend to need him and poof....I get what I need to make my job easier. Then I go home and kick him out of my head...lol.
by workin4$$$
If you realize that before your 60th birthday, you'll live a happier life, with less delusion.
If you don't play the game to get to the top, someone else will crush you on the way up. That's life.
When I leave work, I'm different. The reason is simple...I've got to be tough and resolute all day. When I go home, I want to be myself again. Then I'm happy.
by vicdelta
I'm a manager. What I see here is a lot of disfunctional organizations, and I have to say from what I have read, the problem doesn't appear to be all at the top. When I want to bring forth a problem or complaint about a coworker or manager, the first thing I asked is whether my complaint is biased. If the honest answer is no, then I press on with all the data available to me. Someone will listen. The only qualification I would have is that if your organization is rotten from top to bottom, go somewhere else. Life is too short to be frustrated and miserable all the time.
And for some of you who appear to be mean, nasty and backstabbing, you would not work in my organization, not only because I wouldn't want you here, but the rest of our group would see your attitude coming from a mile away.
For someone who claims to be such a good manager, you have an awful lot to learn about courtesy, class, dignity and, in general, how to talk to people, especially those who don't report to you.
Are you brave enough to tell us which company allows your mouth to run amok the way it has in this forum? Just for future reference, so that the rest of us decide not to work there.
Rest assured that I know to deal with your kind.
I dare to reply to this post because I have more to say to you (that I wish I could tell you in person), if you offer your worthless 2 cents again.
by dkmunyere
I empathize with what you are going through. If at all you are a Christian, I would advice you to keep on obeying him,give him the respect he deserves and pray for him. Prayer changes things.When we pray, God intervenes on our behalf. Consider the children of Israel when they were under the oppression of Pharaoh. They cried to God and finally God delivered them. He can do the same to you!
David Munyere
Kijabe, Kenya, E.Africa
by workin4$$$
if only that was always the case!
My last job, I'd been there for three yrs, and had stellar reviews. My boss loved me, my bosses' boss liked me, and I liked the company. Then my boss left for another position! Oh no! The new guy was nothing like the old boss. The new one did not believe in communication with any of his department. The day I was laid off, my own direct boss did not even know about it! I was packing my desk, and he had no clue as to why - he thought I had quit and wanted to stop me. No, sorry, the nerd above you decided that you no longer needed my services! Truth? I was in my 40's, and the new boss brought in a much younger staff of his choosing. Nope, couldn't prove it, but it happens all the time.
Some bosses just suck, and you can only hope that it will come back to bite them in the end...
This discussion is closed to new replies.
Sort by Trending