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I spy...

By azul ·
Bush autherized spying on US citizens and is unapologetic.

While I admire the mans conviction and hard-headedness I have to wonder about the legality of it.

To the best of my knowledge, this is a new precedence.

If he can do this sort of thing, why do we need the patriot act? Does this not subvert the legislative process and the legal process?

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President Nixon set the precedent

by stress junkie In reply to I spy...

This is the sort of thing that forced President Nixon to leave office. Nixon did unauthorised wiretapping and burglary. If we had a Democratic Congress I'm sure that this would have lead to an impeachment. Since the Republicans are in charge it's see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

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And why are there not riots in the streets?

by azul In reply to President Nixon set the p ...

I really wanted to like Bush. At time I almost have. There are certainly things about him that I like and admire, but this man does not seem to have any regard for civil liberty...

But then the more I dig and learn, it seems like liberty is a stretchy, pliable, maybe disposable warm fuzzy from a bygone era.

I guess I was just to young and dumb to notice before. Am I naive to think a President will actually protect, defend and PRESERVE my liberty?

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Not the intention

by jdclyde In reply to And why are there not rio ...

The intention was to keep yours and the lives of all you hold dear to you, alive and well.

You will also notice if you read into this issue, that it was only people suspected of terrorist activity.

Would you rather have the next attact stopped before it happens, or would you rather be able to say "thank goodness terrorist suspects are safe and secure in their converstaions."?

Should he have gone to a judge afterwards? It looks like it. Bet we get a set of rules that call for that very thing.

I have heard this before, and I will ask you how your liberty has been impacted? How about anyone you know?

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On Nixon

by maxwell edison In reply to President Nixon set the p ...

Nixon did not authorize a burglary. He did, however, participate in a cover-up of the burglary. Moreover, Nixon would have been impeached, but he chose resignation instead, at the urging of congressional Republicans.

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Which is something

by jdclyde In reply to On Nixon

a Democrat President would never do (as we have seen).

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NIXON

by mjd420nova In reply to President Nixon set the p ...

Nixon did it for himself, trying to find out what
the opposition party was planning. That's not even in the catagory of spying for the self defence of the nation.

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A few facts missing

by puppybreath In reply to I spy...

Strange that you forgot to mention that the original authorization came from Carter and Clinton.

Of course, they were just trying to protect the citizens in a time of peace. Not like that evil Bush who is using a war to increase his power and push through his illegal agenda.

It's also strange how the media or Democrats didn't squawk a bit when Carter and Clinton pushed these laws through, but now that Bush is in office using the exact same laws, he's somehow doing all sorts of illegal activities.

Rescind the powers if you like. Change the laws if you want. But at least get the facts straight. Democrats are still politicians just like Repubicans and like all politicians, couldn't care less about your rights or concerns. It's all about power and nothing else.

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There's a little facist in everyone

by stress junkie In reply to A few facts missing

You're absolutely right about this sort of thing happening under previous administrations. It's not just the presidents either. It seems that there is always some faction in Washington that thinks that we have too much freedom to do this or that and they intend to change it. It's probably always been this way since the Continental Congress. I think that over time we see an overall improvement. The Supreme Court's ruling that created the exclusionary rule probably did more to protect our freedom than any other single government action. We still have to be vigilant and "out" the facists when and where we find them.

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What facts did I get wrong?

by azul In reply to A few facts missing

I was asking a question.

I have been tring to believe that not all politicians are power hungry thieves.

The thing is, I have always thought they were after my money, as if I had any.

Naive, deaf and blind or out right sutpid, I am only now begining to understand how our individual liberty is/has been eroded.

By no means do I suggest the Democrats are a better alternative to the Republicans.

I vote strictly third party, It is the only chance we have at making a positive change with out another revolution.

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Liberty has not been eroded.

by TonytheTiger In reply to What facts did I get wron ...

We are merely finding out how bad it's been all along.

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