Is ethical consulting possible?

Yet I have seen very unethical behavior on the part of consultants and have even been pressured as an employee to do some unethical things on behalf of an employer. There is no such beast as business ethics, so I suppose that it is a bit much for meto expect consultants to do anything other than what business owners do as well. They lead by example.

Whew! Thank you James. As I was reading the previous posts I thought I was going to have to be the voice of reason! I agree with everything you've said. I *am* a consultant and, as you stated, my reputation is on the line. If I beleive I've encountered something unethical with a client, I first bring it to their attentin (perhaps it's innocent?) and if they say "that's the way it is," I walk away. I've done it maybe three times in the past 10 years (walk away that is) and they were all big,big names - names you'd know. I like to sleep at night; AND I'd like to stay in business. Not worth the angst of being unethical in my book.

I have seen many situations where fixing problems do not solve problems, so that you know there are long-term issues. I have seen systems marketed in the full knowledge that they were not Y2K ready, and the company was intending to discontinue the systems in 1999. I quit. I have seen a critical service being pared to the bone with little in the way of business continuity planning. I quit. I could list numerous examples but I am limited to 1930 characters, so let's get to the heart of the matter. You cannot explain the reasons for quitting without being seen as badmouthing your previous employer, and you are damned if you are seen as a person who quits jobs for no reason. It is a tough call for anyone in that situation, so when there is a situation where a company is in a public light (like Enron) I believe the law must deal severely with those in power positions, not the poor slobs who did not dare to quit and be in a position of "voluntary job loss" and therefore in no position to collect benefits of any kind. A consultant is not much better off, since he/she must market their services again, and agencies do tend to take the employer side (their clients) in situations like that. They do not like to place a perceived "hot head" in another client's project. That is the reality of using fear to keep people in line and eyes closed to business ethics.

I AM a full time consultant with a very well known firm. This is a constant humiliation and slap in the face. Not only do firms behave in an "unethical" manner, they do things that are blatently illegal. Who is there to oppose them? I've seen it all. Everything from "no compete" clauses to "confidentiality and non- disclosure" clauses. Which translates into, we can strong arm you into anything we like, you can't tell anyone, INCLUDING your co- workers, about it, and "OH by the way, if you don't like it, TOUGH!" Hey, how about the governing state laws...from other states? I've read the contracts, seen the dance and been on both ends of the deal. These are what the firms today ( I have worked for a few larger firms) are like. Sales driven and even the salesmen are sticking it to the company. Its a cut throat world in IT today and if you are naive enough to think that "ethics" are even a concern, kindergarten school teacher would be a good career move when your company drops you for a bigger take.

It is always possible to be ethical. It may not be easy, but it is possible. Being ethical in an unethical environment is a true measure of one's character. Ultimately it shows where your personal values are.

I've always been interested in theholocost. I'm not Jewish and I know no one who has told me that they were on one side or the other. What amazes me most about the holocost is how many people were willing accomplices. A whole nation was willing to help or at least turn a blind eye to what has got to be one of the most unethical periods in German history. The penalty to not help the Germans was death and most of the nation chose to do wrong rather than face death.

Here we have a bunch of Andersen people who obviously value money. It looks like they have a lot of accomplices, so I would argue that they are all guilty. Those that did the deed and those that turned a blind eye. They should all be punished. In this case, the market is more likely to do the job than the government is. Andersen will lose business. Andersen employees will lose their jobs -- and they deserve it, if for no reason other than they chose to close their eyes.

In my many years as a consultant, only one incident stands out that was clearly unethical (and illegal). As the manager I was asked to sign the timesheet for an employee showing that she had worked hours on a government project when in fact she hadnot. I refused to sign the timesheet and the company did not penalize me (the vice president signed instead). The firm was already being investigated for timesheet fraud, so although they got away with this incicident, their behavior had been noticed. In general my experience has been that smaller firms seem to be more ethical in some ways than larger.

:)

Luckily, overlooking illegal loads of software in small businesses has been the extent of my ethical testing. In all situations, clear boundries must be set with the customer as soon as a situation arises. BSA would say that ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law...and fines or jail time may be worse than a lost client!

The issue we have here is a balance between personal morals and business ethics.
It is fair to say that I have delt with a large number fo consulting/audit organisations that deliberately lead there customers down a path to suit their own business agenda - and not what is best for the client [I have experienced this as both a client and vendor].

I was previously an owner/director of a small New Zealand company. We had a very good niche market that took our people all over the world. Our customers continued to come back to us because they knew we were objective - and would tell them when they were going down the wrong path.

In our situation we worked in a small market, bad news travelled fast - and this was a constant reminder to us of what our clients expected.

It saddens me to see the enron saga unfold - so many hurt by the actions of a few.

Above all as individuals we need to be able to look in the mirror and be comfortable with what we see - and do we like what we see.

As Manager of BIS for a Fortune ten company, I was ordered to alter the sales (marketing and finance) and inventory records and reports for a company to the tune of $30,000,000.00.

I was told to alter the sales budget set by an outgoing division executive that was developed in a recession economy. I was told to enter actual sales numbers and closed many months of sales that included only a few days of sales. This closed the year (on the books) very early one year and pushed all sales intothe next which didn’t start for four months. And, when the new year came these sales were told to be lost.

The division I was in cooked its books when other company books were given our sales. The objective of the Division Vice President was to demonstrate his ability to deliver all values according to the previous numbers and deliver tremendous sales in the year he developed the budget.

The General Ledger was cooked the same. Taxes, local, state and federal, were not paid on these sales and what was paid was in another year than actual.

Keeping two and three sets of books after a few months were reported in summary only and the details were summarized in bal tab reports that were disconnected separate systems. These summary numbers had no verification or detail and many dates were given future dates.

At the time we had the company's first black auditor working for the division and I was told to give him everything he wanted if it was on a list. When he found outthat if he requested anything not on my list, he was told (by me) to see the General Manager. He did once

When I was still doing mainframe databse analysis and design, I was employed by a large consulting firm.

One day, while talking to someone working on a different project, I noticed they were going to use a design that had a major bottleneck in the design. I knew this because I had seen a similar design implemented and then thrown out.

When I went to my manager and mentioned this, I was told to keep quiet becuase fixing that major flaw 'might be our next project'.

Needless to say, I finished my project, told the other designer about the problem he was creating and quit working for the consulting company as soon as I could.

Yes, it is possible to have ethical consulting but you won't find it at Arther Anderson or any other huge firm. Once a company reaches a certain size, it's own growth and profitability is all that matters.

You want ethical consulting, look around for small to mid-sized firms. Even then, get references and do your homework before handing them the keys to your company.

The Ahhhh... Response, to whatever it is suppossed to refer to, proves that the actual problem are the outdated and fragmented mental operating systems of many managers and opinion spreader; the result, "anything goes", chaos etc. is not a background for any ethical considerations, merely for social darwinism.

Yep, I finally got over that annoying case of cynicism and went back into normal pessimism mode. Thanks for asking, I feel much better now. (Actually, I like to think of it as realism without sugar coating, not pessimism... Oh well)

When making opportunities, or doing anything else, one should remember that in life there is a price for everything and sometimes that price has nothing to do with money. Many things in this world are too expensive for me, those things involve the cost of my own morality or sense of self worththat is attached to being ethical. Others, it seems, have no qualms about selling such things and thus make many more opportunities than I ever would. But, I think that I am left with something of more value than they.

After 7 years of consulting & having project managed some 50 different assignments, only once have I been pressured to deliver a consultancy report with a predetermined outcome. The solution was both obvious and ehtical - decline the assignment and move on to another project. Consultants are able to make their own decisions - you don't have to accept an unethical assignment. Another perspective for those with a more 'pragmatic' approach to consider - suppose you deliver the 'preferred solution'and it later fails, who carries the liability? Will the client step in and say it wasn't your fault, you were pressured into recommending the particular solution and are therefore not liable? I think not! At all times maintain your dignity and integrity, regardless of the actions of others, and at least you'll be able to sleep at night.

When individuals are placed in the precarious position of both attesting to the fair presentation of financial statements and providing consulting services that are aimed at maximizing profits, strange this will happen. Further, it is clearly obvious that individuals who where once auditors of a firm and now accounting managers in the same company, fall short and lack objectivity. This is especially so when you find yourself proffering representations to individuals who were once your peers.
The accounting profession is built on the idea of "independence in fact and appearance". However, it is virtually impossible to remain independent when 1)the same people are expected to give their opinion about fair presentation of financial statements (taken as a whole) and be responsible for the results of a company's operations.

At least three people who where assigned to the Enron audit by Andersen where subsequently hire by Enron as senior management in the accounting department. Moreover, these people worked in the Houston office of Andersen; the same office that was responsible for the Enron audit.

Yes, ethical consulting is possible. But ethical behavior will only emanate from an ethical person. Therefore, it perfectly clear the that the accounting firm that assumes the responsibility for the audit must not be allowed to also perform consulting services of any kind. Just as current law requires that an auditor not have any financial interest (stock ownership, etc.)in the client company, so to must the auditor be void of an interest as to the degree of operating success of a client company.

Finally, every auditor, every accounting book and all the accounting literature clearly says that the auditor in not suppose to enter transaction in the clients accounting system but there are favorably "audit" adjustments that are made at year-end.

First... You haven't yet answered my argument even though I have stated it twice.

Second... Do you understand my argument because I certainly don't understand you. Perhaps we should agree on a common language to communicate with first.

Third... I'll answer your questions after you answer mine. (refer to first point)

Consulting is do or die and word of mouth can kill you quicker than it promotes you. In any human relationship there are two kinds of character ethics.

Personality based ethics tend to be manipulative. People word things, use body language, amongst other tactics with the intent of steering or even controlling others actions. Often this is short sighted and the one using this approach is seen as shallow and untrustworthy in time.

Principle based ethics aspire to values and principles suchas truth, honesty, committment, etc... People operating in under this system are often seen in a positive light as caring, earnest, and making honest mistakes. People tend to think of the person as more like themselves.

In consulting, one needs to be principle based. There is no test for this or way of measuring it except by the paycheck one gets and your relationships with your clients.

I sure agree with James. The fact though, is people choose to be ethical or unethical. We live in a world where right and wrongs are now relative, and individually determined. Unless consultants belong to professional associations that can sanction their professional behaviour, there appears to be no incentive to remain ethical when faced with stiff competition and your livelihood depends on that/those contract/contracts--particularly when you know the competition is likely to succumb.

However, it's not always the client that will induce the consultant to unethical conduct. It could be the other way round. All that is needed is a strong general deterrent. But even then only the little guys might end up being caught most of the time. We all (including politicians and their bureaucrats) have a role to play in ensuring professional practices that are above board. If our own systen will allow an alleged thief/fraud
to take the 5th Amendment and escape justice, where is the incenticefor for living upright?

Best Zottor

It helps when you are not desparate. Pehaps I've been lucky. There have been times when it was made clear to me that I was to do something unethical, albeit, not illegal. I refused. Twice it cost me my job. Once I was screamed at but got a "reward" in the end. By being ethical, you can have pride in yourself, while giving in can cause sleepless nights or severe stress, which I have observed in others more than a few times.

I've had clients and/or sat at bidders conferences where one or more of the big accounting firms was represented for over three decades. I've always been amazed at the blantent conflict of interest involved in companies that audits or "review" practices of their clients, then offer "solutions".

It's also interesting how often I have been offered positions, even partnerships, by these companies, particularly at the time of bidding. ALL of them have made offers more than once. Strange coincidence?

Isn't it time to have some ethical standards set for such firms somewhat like those for attorneys?

geez! i haven't seen this kind of mindless psycho-babble since the end of EST or the Transformational Technologies gambit by Werner Erhardt.

Religeon by any other name....

right you are, prefbid.

Remember the Golden Rule?
"He who has the gold, makes the rules".

As long as we live in a society where money comes first, it's really hard to be ethical.

But not impossible.

Basically, being ethical will most likely mean that you earn less, it's harder to get a promotion, but sleep better.

I worked for a firm that was developing a new product based on an older product that was supposedly "purchased" from Digital before Compaq. This Purchased product was then ported from VMS to NT and was to be built on Oracle with Java. Most of the development was built with a demo copy of Oracle 8 (timeframe becomes apparent here) and the owner of the company had purchased a full copy of Oracle 7. The version purchased however was not the copy that he needed and he asked me to call into their support line and get the latest version. At the time if we had the Support contract, we would have had the latest version of the product and it would have been fine. Not having the latest version, he asked me to have then send it and tell them the "Check was in the mail" for the support contract. He finally did get the original full copy in house, but at this point he did something else, the thing that had me quitting in a matter of days. He burned copies of every item in the shop and sent it directly to India... My Resume did not look good, but I felt better after leaving. Company doesn't exist any more for some reason...

I AM a consultant; I do database development, applications training, and scripting. I also have a Ph.D.in philosophy, and have led business ethics workshops for major corporations. Most of these are a joke - corporations want to have the workshops just so they can say they've had them, but they don't want anyone to really question the ethical status of the company's business dealings.
It IS possible, though, to be an ethical consultant. I've walked away from a few contracts over the years rather than go along with the client's unethical wishes. In one case, I reported the company to appropriate officials (yes, it was that bad).
It's easier to do that, though, if you have multiple contracts. The consultant whose rent and groceries depend on his keeping a contract is in a weak position, and not just in terms of ethical questions. You can still take the high road, but it's a lot hungrier road if you have no backup.
Your reputation is on the line with everything you do as a consultant, but even if it weren't, who wants to look a slug in the mirror every day?

Sounds like you are referencing Stephen Covey's "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People'.

A company I work for As an independant contractor. Seduced me with sales man ship, and a contract, which gives me the right to quit when ever I want, binds me to be available for work on short notice,And does not promise me any kind of work. they won't ever fire me. There are numerous other contractors who do the same work. They never told me there would be a pecking order for work. The lie was in the fact: that they verbally told me I would work5 to 6 days a week if I wanted. the trick was I was promised this buy an un-regognizable underling, to me, at the time. the fact is the were using me to check out screened jobs that were unlikly prospects. I was of course decieved by the machinery.but to make a lon story short the jobs are one dayinstallations . I never know until I get there if It can't be done. if not, I have scheduled a day to work with An *th of my expected pay. By systematic screening by the salesmen jobs the cream rises to the top and i get the "?". And they sales man accuse me of not wanting to get my hands dirty. what they really want is someone who is familiar with the paperwork and company procedures to clean up during the busy season. with out having to hire any one new. they didn't tell me that. Mean while the other subs can make a nice neat schedule, with minimal loss. I have had people call the store requesting me personally. I never got the order. Excuses like my fax machine must have been off line. I first took it personally . now I realize it is a well oiled machine. there is No way to prove discrimination, but I am free to leave. I am still there. I am a fool.

I worked for a medical facility in the I.T. department for years until they decided to outsource. When the consulting company came in they were asked to take on board those of us who were with the facility, which they did. I found more unethical behavior in the group that came from the consulting company than I have ever seen in my life. Regardless of the situation the staff from the consulting company were unethical to not only the medical facility but to their own co-workers. Needless to say the medical facility saw what was going on and ended the contract. Of course they were told to release those of us who were originally with the medical facilty. Another consulting company signed a contract with the medical facility and we went onboard with them. I am happy to say, this company does have ethics regarding the client. As others have stated in this subject matter, it is an individuals decision to be ethical. If you have cutthroat co-workers, don't let them influence you. Your reputation will precede you whereever you go. If a company will not hire me because I have refused to be unethical in another job, then I don't need to work for them. Consultants do seem to be the ones who have made the I.T. field unethical, cutthroat and create an atmosphere of mistrust among co-workers. Shame on us if we are money hungry and power climbing enough to become unethical. As in the movie Aliens, "I don't know who worse them or us. But you don't seem them f--king each other over for a percentage."

I am sure that if you want to play around, you will end on the same way to failure... sooner or later. If you are requested and agree to do something wrong, you will have give your soul to the devil and will have to pay the price.
Talking with the truth and acting right keeps you safe and without debt and that is why you were hired in the first please (?) or else do not accept the job.