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  • #2191203

    marriage in this day and age

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    by lumbergh77 ·

    Somebody sent me the links to the following 2 websites:

    nomarriage.com

    dontmarry.com

    They paint a really bleak picture of marriage today.

    I’ve always thought that it would be cool to someday find a good girl and get married. I’m not so optimistic about my chances of finding the one. I’m in my late 20s and it seems that most of the women my age around here are either single mothers, obese, divorced, smokers, or drink/party too much. I can’t seem to find anyone that I would want to date, let alone live with for decades.

    It seems that marriage is a HUGE risk for a guy these days considering that more than half end in divorce. The laws seem to favor the women and the men are financially screwed. There are lots of marriages that end merely because the woman is no longer happy and “emotionally fulfilled”. This kind of stuff didn’t happen 50 years ago.

    How many of you guys are happily married? Unhappily married? Or single by choice?

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    • #3073760

      You’re right

      by maecuff ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      50 years ago women didn’t leave. They just stayed and endured physical and/or emotional abuse, infidelity, etc. Why would ANYONE, male or female, stay in a relationship that is unhappy? And what is wrong with being emotionally fulfilled? Are you suggesting that females should settle for a life devoid of emotion for the sake of a marriage?

      A happy marriage takes work from both sides and it is right and fair that both participants are happy and fulfilled.

      • #3073709

        Now Mae that is just the Political BS that has been spun around the issue

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to You’re right

        50 Years ago women where having affairs just like the men in their lives the only difference now is that we have DNA testing so the Husband can prove that the child he is expected to pay for isn’t really his but someone else’s. In the past that just wasn’t possible to prove so many males where left to pay for the upbring of others children.

        If memory serves me right I think it was something like 25% of all children where not the biological offspring of their supposed fathers.

        I’m not advocating the requirement to stay in abuse relationships but on the other hand it has just got way too easy to walk out on a marriage today and the need to work at it is removed. The term Abusive Relation ship has also been vastly changed as well as now something as simple as a normal argument between couples is construed as Abuse by the male against the female. In my humble experience it is always the females who bring up stuff from 30 years ago when in an argument where as most males can only think of the immediate things that have happened. :p

        Col ]:)

        • #3073429

          Col

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Now Mae that is just the Political BS that has been spun around the issue

          I did not mean to imply that men are more to blame than women for failed relationships either 50 years ago or now. The original post, however, says that marriage is a bad idea for men and that women bail out because they are unhappy or emotionally unfulfilled. I was trying to point out that being able to easily leave a relationship isn’t necessarily a bad thing. And, regardless of who does what, and yes, there ARE abused husbands, but for the most part, when there is a relationship where one party is physically abused, it is the woman.

          I’m not suggesting that at the first sign of adversity that a marriage should end. It takes effort to have a good relationship. But that effort has to be shared, or there isn’t much hope. My first husband cheated on me. A lot. I caught him three weeks before our son was born. So, I’d have to say, in that case, I was UNHAPPY. My second husband, which I will admit was an horrid mistake on my part, actually told me that he felt, as a human being, that he was superior to me. When I asked him why, he said because he was male, that I was raised very poor and his family had money and because I was Catholic. In that case, I’d say I was not emotionally fulfilled. It’s stupid for anyone to stay in a relationship that is crap just because you are SUPPOSED to stay in a relationship. What does that get you? A medal? Points?

          With that said, I can honestly say that I am pro marriage. I’ve been with my husband for 10 years now and we’re nearly always happy and nearly always emotionally satisfied. It’s not always easy, but we both work at it.

        • #3072813

          Funnily enough Mae

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Col

          That was exactly my point marriages are way to easy to get into and to get out of now days. Many people instead of first getting to know someone just marry then with the idea “If I don’t like it I can always get a divorce!” It works both ways. 😉

          Personally I’m not in favor of either of them as everything is NOW for ME! By so many people. :p

          And for some unknown reason they think that they have a God Given Right to do as they please without any repercussions for their stupidity.

          Col ]:)

        • #3072770

          6 words you need to know…

          by jck ·

          In reply to Funnily enough Mae

          that’ll save ya a lot of money if she divorces ya:

          American wedding license….

          Hidden Cayman account….

        • #3069991

          Not a problem for me

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to 6 words you need to know…

          I have “She who Must Be Obeyed” trained perfectly she knows that I’ll just agree with her when ever she starts out a fight and it drives her nuts. When she asks where I’ve been I alway reply with a fast woman who’s shown me a great time.

          When she accuses me of being uncaring or whatever I say you don’t know the half of it. 🙂

          It’s very hard to keep an argument going when the person you wish to tear into is agreeing with you or going even further and making out that they are far worse that you are originally claiming.

          Lesson Number 1 Never under any circumstances argue with a woman!

          If they tell you it is a lovely day outside and there is a force 5 Hurricane blowing the state away just agree with them. If they tell you that the weather outside is foul and it’s a nice sunny day that is too good to go to work on just agree with then and take the day off owing to the bad weather, She never tell you that one again after you have been under her feet all day. :p

          Lesson Number 2 Refer to Lesson Number 1.

          Lesson Number 3 Never buy presents on the spur of the moment as it makes you look guilty of something that you haven’t actually done!

          Lesson Number 4 If you slip up and forget Lesson Number 3 refer to Lesson Number 1. :p

          Col ]:)

        • #3134172

          Be blind!

          by ken_shin ·

          In reply to Not a problem for me

          To have a successful marriage: just turn the bad things into good by looking at the wonderful thngs that you’re partner have. Dont deal with the mistakes or the things that you partner doesnt have.. focus on what he/she has possess.

        • #3068791

          Society is changing

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to Now Mae that is just the Political BS that has been spun around the issue

          Yep, and 50 years ago, if a person was caught cheating in a marriage, there was a cost. Now vows and promises are worthless. And while some states still have “fault” marriage laws on the books, that particular dog no longer has any teeth!

          It is impossible for everybody to be perfectly happy 100% of the time, and I think we’ve gone too far in putting the comfort of an individual above the stability of a society!

          I have no problem with two people growing apart and wanting to end their relationship, but if you can’t keep it in your pants until it is ended, you deserve to lose everything when it does end. And that’s a gender-neutral statement.

      • #3072621

        AMEN!

        by cuteelf ·

        In reply to You’re right

        Sing it, sister!

        I will not subject myself to a relationship that I do not feel uncomfortable with.

        On a regular basis I ask myself if I’m happy: and what do I need to do to adjust it?

        When dating, I ask if I’m happy, yes, ok? Fine.
        Not ok? what? Hmm. Talk, my issue, his issue…or core belief? Nah. Just bad day.

        You know in your TOES when you fit someone. And you can fit someone, and change enough to not fit in a few years. Change happens. You either choose to pursue the relationship or you say, hasta la vista.

        Can be un-simple with money and children and property involved.

        Make a list of who you are.
        Make a list of what you want in a friend.
        Make a list of what you like in bed.

        Find a person who is a lot of all 3.

        CuteElf

        • #3073111

          But

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to AMEN!

          That list of compatability should have been thought of before you have 10 to 20 year invested in a marrage that has children.

          To wait till you have the children to decide that your “not fullfilled” and run off with the neighbor is dispicable and should be looked down upon as the low life that person is. (regardless if the man or woman leaves like that).

          To start looking at the green fields on the other side of the fence down the road just shows someone with no morals or character. That person is to be loathed. It would change the way I look at anyone that would do that.

          If the chosen mate is abusive then that isn’t even apart of this same discussion, so don’t throw that in.

        • #3073107

          no disagreement there

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to But

          However, you must admit, that given your circumstances, you’re going to be a bit more raw regarding this. It is a good idea to know in advance what you are getting in to. However, making a list doesn’t mean that both parties are going to stick to it. Some people are good at telling others what they want to hear. Sooner or later, if you’ve misrepresented yourself, it’s going to become apparent.

        • #3072924

          Got to get past the infatuation

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to no disagreement there

          many people will get married before they get past the infatuation stage where the other can do no wrong because you don’t see anything but what you want to see.

          Many will make excuses or think “they will change” when it comes to flaws in the other.

          I have always had this opinion of being faithful, and marriage is for life. Even after I found out about the EX running around, I didn’t start going out myself. Not until she finally made the jump and moved out did I even go out for drinks with the little cutie from class (that got me no where ;( ).

          If you look back, was every character flaw with your EX really a total suprise?

          And yes, I did the same thing. Looking back I see many of the major character flaws that led her away from me were there all along. As long as things were going good she would be content, but when the rough times hit she just didn’t have what it took and still doesn’t have what it takes.

          Her single biggest concern these days is getting her diary back and the love letters. Not getting the boys shoes or cloths, but keeping Mark and his wife from seeing her letters. Pathetic.

          I have learned much, and am a better person and will be able to chose a better person next time around because I know much better what to look for and what NOT to look for.

        • #3071511

          There is no doubt

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Got to get past the infatuation

          That I had my part in the failed relationship. And in retrospect, I did turn a blind eye to what should have been waving red flags. I can say that some of the things that came out during the break up were somewhat shocking. I try not to think about that too often, though, I mean, I did sleep with the guy.

          Right now, I’m making that shuddering noise that Homer makes when he talks about Marge’s sisters..

        • #3071428

          Nah

          by cuteelf ·

          In reply to But

          This list is DO IT BEFORE YOU GET THE RING THING.

          And be informed and knowledgable before you get too far into a relationship. Know yourself, know what you want: and know what they want. Match the list.

          Things will change, ok, but, if that list is still static, the small bumps coming thru will be manageable.

          Not like getting married to a person and then finding out they’re bisexualtransexualgothic andlisten to techno..when you’re straight and right-winged 😛

          Cute

        • #3071271

          That would be terrible

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Nah

          I could never live with someone that listens to techno! :^O

        • #3071225

          I knew that was what you were going to say!

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to That would be terrible

          Even before I read it.
          And I agree 100%

        • #3073000

          ok…I made the list…I’m checkin it twice

          by jck ·

          In reply to AMEN!

          When is Santa gonna help me find the “a lot of all 3” woman?

          I can’t find her… 🙁

        • #3057680

          There’s such a thing as trying too hard.

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to ok…I made the list…I’m checkin it twice

          Quit looking. Just go about your life, goin’ where you like to go and doin’ what you like to do. It’ll practically fall into your lap before you know it.

        • #3069471

          lookin vs. going blind

          by jck ·

          In reply to There’s such a thing as trying too hard.

          Ya know, I gotta say this as a single guy.

          I get advice like that: “Oh…you’re trying too hard. When you quit looking, it’ll come out of nowhere.”

          Then I get: “If you never go out and look, you’re not gonna find Miss Right.”

          Well, I get out…I do my thing…go to events and pubs and stores and what not. I don’t approach every girl and go “Hey baby…” or anything.

          I just don’t think it’s meant to happen.

          Maybe I just need to start snorting coke and doing porn films? 😀

          It wouldn’t be Miss Right, but at least I’d have somebody in my lap!!! ]:)

          just kidding…yeah…I’ve heard that before. I’ve waited pretty patiently and been judicious if I did get to know a girl. But, nothing has ever come.

          Thanks for the advice tho.

        • #3069272

          Maybe you should just wait until 40

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to lookin vs. going blind

          then get married and divorced, cause I gotta tell you, when I got divorced at 43, I had to beat them off with a stick. Even a couple of them who are STILL mad at me because I never asked them out (of course, that just confirms that I was right not to:)).

        • #3066144

          I’m close

          by jck ·

          In reply to Maybe you should just wait until 40

          I am 36 now…I’ve never had a long-term, serious relationship (nothing over 6 months), I’ve never lived with anyone (in a non-familial way), and I’ve never bought a ring.

          I could read ya a list of stories…from the stripper I know…to the girl who first broke my heart when I was 18…but…that’s all being saved for my autobiography “My story: how womankind made me the Swill I am!!!” 😀

        • #3134170

          Everything has its own reason

          by ken_shin ·

          In reply to lookin vs. going blind

          By now, you’re just on the midst of struggling of looking for someone Ms. Right. Remember, there is a time for everything. Wait for your own time and Im sure that the best will be yours sooner or later

    • #3073758

      Not married

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      Twenty years last xmas

      Why spoil a good relationship?

      Course the law, would still be in her favour, fifty years ago it wasn’t. No fairer then than it is now, ‘With all my worldly goods’ gets taken seriously now, and if you want a pre-nuptial agreement you shouldn’t be getting spliced in the first place.

      Love pales, beauty fades, trust lasts until you break it.

      • #3071042

        Reply To: marriage in this day and age

        by firestar1 ·

        In reply to Not married

        Beauty may fade and trust can be broken, but if your love fades then I don’t think you have ever truely been in love. I married once when I was young and foolish, it didn’t last. Been in love but once and that love has never faded. I always thought I would marry again, but the events of life never seemed to permit. One day it seemed I woke up and found life had passed by so quickly, and now I am a few years shy of 50 and alone. Don’t be so quick to shun marriage. One day you too may wake up and find yourself alone.

    • #3073753

      It’s not easy

      by mjd420nova ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      It is truly a partnership and has to be worked
      at to keep it going smoothly. All marriages
      are tested in the first few years as each must
      learn the others habits, likes and dislikes and
      how to respect those of the other. It hasn’t been smooth sailing and with two adult children
      still in the home, I am longing for the days
      of when we were first married as I now know
      what to do. It only took 35 years but I think
      I got the hang of it now.

      • #3073686

        I met my wife

        by neil higgins ·

        In reply to It’s not easy

        in hospital,would you believe.I’d been attacked by what I shall term “a drug fuelled moron” who stole my car,and put me six weeks in care.She was one of the nurses who helped me back to full health.Once “fit”,we stayed in touch and it developed from there.That was fifteen years ago.We now have a five year old son.Marriage is’nt easy,it has to be worked out.Yes,we’ve had our rows,and days where we have’nt spoken to each other for twenty minutes :),but we both earn a living,dont have to live out of each others pockets,and hopefully,we shall see old age together.Neither of us are saints,but we dont smoke,and like to stay as healthy as we can.We struggle with finances like everyone else,and I have to admit,both of us have close friends,who would’nt go near a marriage licence,but we are happy,and that’s all that matters.

    • #3073708

      Some simple facts

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      In Western Society there are more females than males so if everyone is supposed to grow up get married and live happily ever after there are going to be a lot of frustrated women around.

      Women tend to live longer then men because they are needed longer where as the male is disposable once the procreation bit has been got out of the way and the offspring paid for so he can die off very early in the piece particularly if there is a big Life Insurance Policy in place he is superfluous by then.

      Now for the real facts of life children are a Royal Pain in the backside and horrendously expensive into the bargain no person in their right mind would have any as they just cost way too much. The current figures that where released here recently was it cost about $1 Million AU to raise a child to the end of his/her education and that didn’t include University or Higher Education which only adds to the bill.

      You never want to get involved with a “Good Girl” it’s far more fun to find a very bad girl and shack up with her for fun and run away as soon as she mentions the word children/kids or anything even remotely close to those. If you do this the excess women will soon realize that they have a good thing and work at keeping it rather than being left with all the excess women wondering “What If?”

      The reality of life is that you may have at best a few years of peace and quite after marriage to attempt to learn to live together before kids come along and then you have no peace or privacy you are constantly subject to the wishes of the child who runs rings around you from the moment of conception and it only gets worse as they get older. At first it will be attending School Sports Days and Meeting the Teachers and then your weekends will disappear as you chase around after your children in the name of taking them where they want to go and they spy on you at every opportunity. In a recent case here a child rang the Police and reported his father for hurting his mother after being told all about physical abuse at preschool of course when the Police kicked the door in to save the woman she was enjoying one of the very rare sexual encounters with her husband so the Police made a strategic withdrawal and of course the mood was lost not to mention the damage that had been done to the building. Actually in that case the lost mood was far more important. 🙂

      Then when they are supposed to be adults they remain at home because it is far cheaper for them than moving out to fend for themselves and they take every opportunity to run you ragged all over again but this time it isn’t confided to just running around during the day for them they will call you out in the middle of the night to come pick them up because the have

      1 run out of money and can not get home,

      2 crashed the car which they didn’t tell you they where borrowing and need a ride home after writing off your car,

      3 if they have their own car they will crash it hundreds of miles away and still expect you to come pick them up and return the next day to rescue their car,

      4 they will want you to then either repair the Bloody Car that they have crashed or at the very least pay for the necessary repairs,

      5 they will go on a round the world trip because you haven’t been charging them any rent and they have saved all of their money to spend on themselves and within the first week they will be ringing you asking for more money as they have run out. They always promise to repay you but for some reason seem to forget.

      I could go on and on it just isn’t worth the grief that children bring and this is a view shared by both of my adult children as the youngest is now nearing 30 and doesn’t want any children as they will cramp her style way too much.

      My only goal in life is to live long enough to be as bigger problem to my children when I’m older as what they where to me when they well as they have been up till now. :^O

      Col ]:)

      • #3071035

        LOL Hal!

        by firestar1 ·

        In reply to Some simple facts

        I can relate to most if not all of what you are saying. I couldn’t help but laugh! I have a son in his early 20’s much like the kid you described. Won’t it be fun when we are seniors and senile, needing care from our children. The thought of it makes me smile (mischieviously.) 🙂

    • #3073703

      the change occurred

      by surflover ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      (at least in the US) 65 years ago when women joined the workforce en mas to support the manufacturing need of WWII. After the war, many continued working even though their husbands returned home (and many whose husbands did not)… This created the 2 income household, which many have blamed for the deterioation of the traditional family system… as other have implied, people were not “permitted” to divorce prior to WWII (it did occurr, but was rare)…

      e.g. when I was young, my uncle and aunt got divorced, I was visiting my grandmother and great grandmother, who were very proper, and very conservative (in their 70’s and 90’s respectively at that time)… when the topic of the divorce came up in conversation, both women became very disgusted, and my Great grandmothers comment was “what is this world coming too?, if they couldn’t get along why didn’t they just cheat like everyone else”… this shocked me at the time (I was about 10)… but I think there must’ve been a lot of truth in the statement

    • #3073616

      Many Years

      by thechas ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      My wife and I have been together for over 29 years now.

      Both of our parents for more than 50.

      Out of 6 married siblings, only 2 other couples are still together. At 3 out of 7, our family is on the low side of the averages.

      The biggest difference between the 4 broken relationships and the 3 strong ones, is mutual respect for the partners. Plus, none of the 3 rushed to the alter.

      A marriage is like a delicate flower. Both partners need to WORK constantly at keeping the relationship alive and growing.

      Couples in the US divorce at such a high rate as it is much easier to end a relationship than to maintain it.

      Further, I would suggest that for most marriages that end in divorce after less than 5 years, the couple should never have gotten married in the first place.

      You stated that you can’t find a potential mate that meets your requirements.

      Where are you looking?

      If you want to find a quality person, you need to look in quality places.

      Schools, churches, service organizations, activity groups and such, are the kind of places where you are most apt to find a person with values and integrity. Just make sure that you yourself share the same values as the ones you are searching for.

      Honestly evaluate the type of person you want to be, and be with. Then immerse yourself in related activities and over time, you will find someone who shares your desires.

      Chas

    • #3073571

      I can attest to the good and bad

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      First, to qualify my statements.

      I will be going to court on the tenth for my divorce.

      My ex decided that she was in love, just not with me. It happens.

      I think that things are STARTING to even out as far as being fair in a split. Between the mens advocate groups and fallout from the feminist movement of women demanding to be treated EQUALLY. This means HUGE advances in some parts of life, and some major set backs in others.

      How fair is it? I will know in a week. I DO know they are RECOMMENDING I should have to give her support even though we have equal time with out boys and I put her through college and she is gainfully employed.

      Am I poisoned to the idea of having a mate for life in the form of marriage? No. I just need to chose better next time AND have documents in place to protect me in the next time around.

      Like the KISS song goes, “Who wants to be lonely?”

    • #3073569

      Expectations

      by black panther ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      Marriage or any relationship is like a garden. It needs to be constantly watered and weeded.

      It must be 50/50 to work well – although in most there is always one who will try to dominate the other.

      Having common goals and values help. Also be aware of different character types – Myers Brigg.

      Also whatever you desire or aspire in a relationship can also be responsible for the breakdown ie

      If you enter a relationship for money and the money runs out so does the relationship.

      If you enter a relationship for good looks and the person changes so does the relationship.

      🙂

    • #3073530

      tsk tsk tsk

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      I gave up looking for someone to settle down with.
      wandered into a chat room and saw a story that someone had posted.
      read it.
      started hanging around until I caught the poster and was able to talk with her.
      4 years later, went to Colorado to meet her in person.
      about 6 months after that we got married.
      no fights.
      gone days without talking, but only because we had nothing to say. ( 24/7 in each others company )
      still married, still happy.
      ( I look at other women, but ain’t got the slightest interest in them. )

      over anything important, we talk about it and reach an agreement before the decision is acted on.
      neither of us will ignore the input of the other.
      our relationship is based on honesty, trust, respect and communication. all four of which are required for a relationship to have any chance of lasting.

    • #3073489

      second time around..

      by shellbot ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      working on the second marriage..long story,but the first time around i was silly and got pregnant very very young.tried to make the best of it and married the guy..i stuck with it 9 years, but in the end i just grew up and he was in no way a match for me.

      then i chat to some guy in Yahoo chat for a while..met him in person..he asked me to marry him a couple weeks later..so a year later we did..in Nov it will be 5 years.

      Ya, we argue a bit..generally about who is right or wrong (we both very opinionated and like to think we are right)..there are days i would to throw dinner plates at his head..but ya know what, when its 2am and we been chatting about stuff we did as kids, the best way to do a particualr bit of OO code, politics, or whatever..I realise he is my best friend!
      I think being able to talk to your mate is the most important thing in the world.
      If you are already worried about divorce before you meet the right person..don’t bother looking. Sometimes you just have to take that chance when you find someone you want to be with.

      Other risks in life:
      Eating a burger (e-coli)
      Skydiving (long way to fall)
      Plugging in toaster (electric shock)
      Driving your car (accidents or drunk drivers)
      Flying (bird sucked into plane engine)

      way i see it..unlike the above things, in very few cases does marriage end in death 🙂

    • #3073481

      as much as I put on

      by jck ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      being a reject, I’m actually single by choice. I could have been married long ago to girls from families that were friends of my family. But, I didn’t feel connected to them. So, it never even got past the “getting to know” phase.

      I’m like you. Finding someone I can trust, respect and admire is the same for me as developing the matter-to-energy conversion process from Star Trek would be: even though I think it’s possible, it hasn’t happened yet.

      Nonetheless, don’t give up.

      As for divorce law, you’re absolutely right. Even though women are considered equal under the law in this country, the divorce law more often than not caters to the “helpless/vulnerable female” stereotype and will give women ample support after a divorce even though they are able-bodied and could work to provide for themselves. In a lot of cases, the man gets little or nothing unless awarded custody of children. I saw a couple friends go through this in the past few years. One for the “emotional fulfillment” thing you mentioned. It was sad. Wife just up and decided she didn’t want to be married anymore, even though the guy treated her like a queen, would go home from work and take care of the kids so she could have time to herself, etc.

    • #3073479

      Why bother?

      by fonken monken uk ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      I’ve been with my girlfriend for best part of 4 years, and before that we were really good friends (we should have got together ages ago apparently, but there you go).

      We have no intention of getting married, basically, becuase we see no benefit.

      We are not relegious, so why have a church wedding?
      We dont need a person in a dog collar, druidic robes or pagan head gear to tell us or anyone else how much we love each other.
      We dont need to have a day of being ordered around by a photographer, capturing that ‘special moment’, when its really not about the couple involved anyway.
      We dont seek the approval of others in anyway.
      We dont really care who knows and who doesnt, the important people do anyway.

      So really, why bother?

      • #3073391

        Why to bother

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Why bother?

        If you plan on growing old with this person, there are many LEGAL reasons that you SHOULD get married.

        Taxes.
        Medical.
        Inheritance.

        Most states give a break to families. It promotes stable families.

        Medical. If one partner doesn’t have good medical, the other partners will cover them IF married.

        Inheritance. If one should die (we all die sooner or later) then the surviving one will end up with what you both worked hard to build together. Otherwise most can be taken by direct family members. It has happened.

        If one gets sick, the MARRIED mate can step up and direct the care of that loved one. If not married, unless you have power of attorny you have no legal say and can be pushed aside by direct family members. Also, in intensive care, it is often FAMILY members only. Your not married, your not family.

        go to the justice of the peace and protect what you have built and will build together. Unless your feelings are not that strong for this person so your just “shacked up” until you get bored with them.

        • #3073366

          A fair point..

          by fonken monken uk ·

          In reply to Why to bother

          ..but not entirely valid to me (the UK at the end of my name should indicate why!!!).

          Medical – well, he have the national health service, so no reason there. I even have company private health care which can be extended to common-law partners, so again, thats no reason for marriage.

          Inheritance – well, does no one write a will these days? Perhaps I’m an exception as my old mans a will writer, but still, the state would recognise my other half’s status as common law wife.

          The examples you’ve given are all very USA specific, and I’m ont sure they bare that much relevance to me and my better half in lovely Warwickshire. Good points if your in the USA, but for me, really more evidence that its just not worth bothering with!

        • #3073341

          Oops!

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to A fair point..

          Well, in that case completely ignore the man behind the curtain…..

          I do forget that many places are not as family oriented. We also have common-law marriage, where if you live together for seven years (I believe) then in the eyes of the state you ARE married.

          No, I don’t know all the ins and outs of it.

          Bottom line, if you don’t have any financial or legal benifits AND are happy they way you are, I hope you have a happy life no matter what your marritial status is.

        • #3073339

          common law marriage

          by jck ·

          In reply to Oops!

          in some states, it is 12 months of continuous relational cohabitation…then you have to give up half…married or not.

        • #3073075

          and some states

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to common law marriage

          don’t recognize them period. If you’re not married, you’re roommates.

        • #3053575

          Wherabouts in Warwickshire?

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to A fair point..

          I’m a Rugby lad although I’ve been in London for the forseeable past!

        • #3060619

          Blimey Charlie!

          by fonken monken uk ·

          In reply to Wherabouts in Warwickshire?

          Born Kenilworth, now live in Coventry, and by the end of the year, I’ll see you down in London!

        • #3073275

          Oops

          by cp7212 ·

          In reply to Why to bother

          Oops, never mind….decided to remove my comments. Must be a first for TR. lol

        • #3072818

          hmmm

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Oops

          here you going to chastise me? A beating with a rubber hose?

          While I admit that my response was not a global response, they ARE valid in some places that value the traditional family and do things to encourage.

          I was not trying to tell people to get married if they don’t want to. He just asked why so I pointed out SOME valid reasons why.

          Now, if people plan to start breeding they should be married. But if that isn’t in the plans, shacking up till you get sick of each other is just fine.

        • #3073074

          Nooooo……

          by cp7212 ·

          In reply to hmmm

          Didn’t you read? I decided NOT to chastise you. 😉 I didn’t read one of your previous posts before I opened my virtual mouth.

        • #3071525

          ooooooooo

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Nooooo……

          ok, I think…. ;\

          I will accept your non-chastisement ….

          Not a big fan of getting married?

        • #3066061

          How could you tell?

          by cp7212 ·

          In reply to ooooooooo

          I admit it. I have a huge distrust where women are concerned. My first girlfriend and I went out for seven years and it just dissolved. I still don’t know why to this day. My partner at work railroads me (female). I’ve never cheated on a partner, but been cheated on.

          I’ve had female “friends” stay with me when they didn’t have a place to go to and they (three of ’em) all either quit their job or never got one to get out of my home. One woman I actually had to have the constable physically remove her from my home. That’s just the tip of the iceberg…

          Just when I get over my idiosyncracies and start dating again, I get reminded and the vicious circle starts again. All I attract are crazies, I figure I can’t date them, why try to get married?

          No, I am happy on my own. When you’re single, all your decisions are unanimous. 😉

        • #3070486

          You sound like my best bud

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to ooooooooo

          The nicest guy in the world, so I made him my boys godfather.

          Works out, takes care of himself.

          Is respectful of women and always treats them better than they deserve.

          Always ends up with the PsychoBitchFromHell. He was a MAGNET for them! Sure, they were all hot but that only takes you so far for so long.

          Just remember, that there are as many loser MEN as there are loser WOMEN. It is just up to the non-losers to find each other.

          When you find that one, you don’t LOSE anything, you GAIN it.

          Good luck!

        • #3060365

          comment on later post

          by cp7212 ·

          In reply to ooooooooo

          Darn threads are always too short….hmmmmm, smorty? Anyway, I saw that you said you had to start taking sleep aids and I turned my buddy onto this. I take it occasionally too. It’s melatonin, you can find it in any health store (at least in US).

          Melatonin is a naturally-occurring hormone in your brain. Pills usually come in one mg doses, don’t take over three. One usually relaxes me enough to get to sleep, but my buddy takes two.

          My buddy was taking Tylenol PM, but who needs the acetaminophen? The chemical used to put you to sleep leaves you doped up and groggy when you wake. Pharmaceutical sleep aids require you get eight hours of sleep. Who the h*ll has eight hours to sleep?

          I take one tablet, it kicks in about 45 minutes later and I can get four or five hours sleep and wake up feeling fine.

        • #3060330

          Will have to check into it

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to comment on later post

          thanks for the hint.

          I try to keep the non-party chemicals to a minimum when I can. 🙂

          The other problem with many is you will build up a tolerance to them over time. If nothing else, it will allow me to rotate as needed.

          Much better than my old solution of getting into my cough medicine with the codine3 in it. That would knock me out a good nine hours and sleep right through my alarms.

          And thread lenght, yes it is stupid to have to go ten posts up and hit reply to the level higher. No reason you couldn’t just add to the end of that thread.

        • #3071219

          What??? Breeding = Cause for Marriage?

          by fonken monken uk ·

          In reply to hmmm

          “Now, if people plan to start breeding they should be married. But if that isn’t in the plans, shacking up till you get sick of each other is just fine”

          JD! Since when precisely? What does an exchange of non-descipt vows or bits of paper mean to a childs upbringing? Surely marriage doesn’t make a blind bit of difference to breeding – so long as a childs born into a loving environment?

          I respectfully disagree with you!

        • #3057792

          You have heard the term

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to What??? Breeding = Cause for Marriage?

          bastardchild. It is not meant as a compliment, EVER.

          Who’s name will the child have and why?

          How is that child accepted into a society that is historically based around a family unit of a husband and a wife?

          What does that tell other people, that you are committed enough to each other enough to have sex, but not enough to file the legal papers to make an official union between the two of you?

          [i]”What does an exchange of non-descipt vows or bits of paper mean to a childs upbringing”[/i] Stability. Not having to explain why mommy and daddy have last names and won’t get married. Having children out of wed-lock has been looked down upon for centuries. nothing new here.

          As you say, we will have to walk away from this one, each shaking their heads.

        • #3057771

          I just have to say this…

          by jck ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          about what you put:

          ‘”What does an exchange of non-descipt vows or bits of paper mean to a childs upbringing” Stability. Not having to explain why mommy and daddy have last names and won’t get married.’

          marriage != certain stability for a child

          Besides…which is better for a child: explaining why mommy and daddy have last names, or them having last names and the child growing up around parents who show no love, comfort, attention to each other?

          Essentially…do you explain a small thing like name difference? Or raise the child around a situation that gives them a warped sense of what love and marriage should be about?

          I don’t condone marriage just because of pregnancy. That’s getting married to save face…not because you’re in love and want to have a loving, committed, caring relationship.

          Of course…thank God…I’ve been smart enough to keep mine in my pants for a long time now and not have to regret having let loose that one little guy who swam good enough and made me a dad to a mother I don’t love.

        • #3057764

          Like usual

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          you see what you want to see in my posts.

          We were discussing PLANNED parenting, not an “oops”.

          Two people that are making plans for the rest of their lives together and CHOOSE to have a child out of wed-lock.

          I will give one “do-over” on this one as your entire post is invalid. Almost as if you were LOOKING to disagree with me?

        • #3069458

          not looking to “just disagree”

          by jck ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          I disagreed with that statement I outlined.

          But addressing your case of “PLANNED” parenting…you can get fooled into thinking someone is Miss Right and she’s just putting on real good. Trust me, I almost got involved with a stripper who was smart, in law school at Stetson University, single and outgoing.

          Then I found out she had a fondness for free drugs. She never bought any, but the fact that the problem was present could lead to a lot worse. Hence, why I’m not married to her right now.

          So, you can’t always guarantee that marriage = stability for a child…in the case of the “oops” or not. It involves a lot more than just a “plan”.

          Now in regard to people with the most likelihood of unplanned parenthood, how many 15-21 year olds do you know that sit down together and go “let’s plan all this out before we have pre-marital sex.”. Usually, all that is involved is cow-eyes, some cheap talk, maybe trading numbers, some alcohol, and physical contact. I know I’ve never been talking to a girl at a party or bar and had her go “Maybe we should develop a contingency plan for life.”

          Your theory works fine for fully matured adults who are in or working toward a traditional relationship and upholding standard Christian values.

          However, societal norm is not condusive to following the structured traditional family plan anymore. Most people don’t seriously plan their lives until early 20s, and most don’t stay virgins until they’re married, and therefore your previous posting of:

          “Now, if people plan to start breeding they should be married.”

          isn’t gonna work in a broad sense…because, most people don’t generally “plan to start breeding” when having sex…they’re just fulfilling physical desires. And by “breeding”, I assume you mean having sex, not planning a pregnancy.

          That and the “shack up” thing also is a point that would increase the likelihood of unplanned pregnancy by “breeding” during cohabitation.

          I can understand the intent of your statements, but they make a weak foundation for a plan to stimulate the growth of family values in modern American society.

          I would say that it’s more contemporary not to promote shacking up together, and advocating abstinence through education and information including dissemination of the financial and professional benefits of abstinence. And, promoting use of “protected sex” devices and methods in situations where abstinence is not going to be observed.

          Plus the biggest point I can give that your points didn’t work…in reference to your reply to Fonken Monken:

          He’s in the UK.
          They have different tax codes.
          They have national medical care.
          You can will inheritance to your dog, if you want, via a will.

          But even in the states:
          One parent can still claim the child for a dependent and, depending on income, claim the EIC (Earned Income Credit).

          Medical care for a single parent with a child is generally cheaper to get through government agencies for that child, than a married couple through employer health care via “family plan” options.

          You can write wills here as well to designate inheritors.

          Needless to say, I advocate family planning. I’ve done it myself. But, I’m not going to say that people should do it. I’ll just suggest they should consider it.

        • #3069434

          Legitimately interesting point,

          by fonken monken uk ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          Get the pun there? Legit? ?Bastardchild?!?

          I digress. Again, I dont see how paperwork= stability.

          Yeah, ok, child out of wedlock is frowned upon, but by (a) god, these are modern times and the world is becoming more secular. Marriage does not mean all out stability, and from what people have said on here about their experiences, it certainly appears to be the case.
          Certainly couples I know that are not married and have child(ren) dont suffer any social frowning upon becuase of their status. And honeslty, do you think a childs development is going to go wrong becuase they cannot understand why their surname is only the same as one of their parents? really? Is the opinion of others more important than the 2 parent care of a child?
          “Honey, we must get married, you know how the neighbours talk and will look upon us like freaks otherwise…or hell, we could just spend that effort raising our child and to hell with them”
          What does it matter, so long as the child is loved? (which by coincidence, I beleive is one of the arguments for same-sex parenting).

          Your points are all valid, but to me seem to me to come from relegious/traditional view point. Absolutely nothing wrong with that (no flames here at all) but we’re not as fundamental-Christian over here in Blighty, so the relegious perspective arguments fall a bit short of the mark.

        • #3069359

          My disclaimer

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          My dear Fonken, I was not trying to approach this with any religious ties. Maybe just being raised in a religious family has influinced my thinging a bit, I will conced that.

          High divorce rates, are generally from couples that got together for the wrong reasons in the first place. People today suck. 🙂 Does that mean Marriage is not valid just because the people often are not?

          I PERSONALLY (opinion only) see marriage as a statement or affermation of your commitment to each other. You are willing to stand in front of God and country, Family and Friends, and tell the world “I love this person, and plan to spend the rest of my days with them.”

          It isn’t the piece of paper or the cerimony or the gifts.

          Is marriage required to live together happily forever? Of course not. But I see for MANY (not saying you) the reason to not get married is because so many end in divorce. Not getting married is just a way of making it easier to walk out the door. “I love you baby, but I have my exit plan just in case.”

          Being in a differnet Country, with different life experiences, this thinking may not apply in any way. You would be the better judge of that than I would. I have always been raised with a high value on family. If you do not marry this person, you are not related to anyone on their side (which in my case would have been a good thing ;\ )

          Just my personal oppinion, with the reasoning behind how I got to it.

          I fully plan to marry again someday. I will have learned from my first marriage how [b]I[/b] can make a marriage better. And you can bet your a$$ it will be a he11 of a party!

          I hope you and your mate have a long and happy life.

        • #3069348

          jck = invalid

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          You can go on about all of the exceptions to family planning that you want, but that is NOT what Mr. Fonken and I were discussing.

          He is an adult, sharing his life with a chosen mate. At some point MANY couples like this PLAN to start a family. (I know in your socialist paradise this must seem like an alien idea)

          When these couples PLAN to start this family and then CHOOSE to have children, they are planing out their life together. And yes, I DO know many people that have had all of their children this way, (although they were all married).

          THIS is a start of a stable family.

          Every example you brought up are NOT a part of this discussion, and just go to show how far our culture today has DEVOLVED. Good thing morals are only for the “Evangelical Right-Wing”, huh? Or is it? Yours is a discussion that while it is a valid concern, has NOTHING to do with this thread.

          My one point I will make about marriage vs shacking up. What is much easier to just walk away from, a room mate or your wife/husband? Which have you stood up and made a commitment to?

          If having to throw away my value system is required to have a “secular” nation, I pray to GOD that we never see that day. Tell me, since the push for this to become a godless country has started, would you say peoples values and the way they live has gone up or down? I see it in a rapid spiral down the drain. Every example you gave show this. And every example you gave is worse today than it was 50 years ago, correct?

        • #3066205

          invalid?

          by jck ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          As a part of my last post, I reference your original core post, which was:

          —————–
          “If you plan on growing old with this person, there are many LEGAL reasons that you SHOULD get married.

          Taxes.
          Medical.
          Inheritance.

          Most states give a break to families. It promotes stable families.

          Medical. If one partner doesn’t have good medical, the other partners will cover them IF married.

          Inheritance. If one should die (we all die sooner or later) then the surviving one will end up with what you both worked hard to build together. Otherwise most can be taken by direct family members. It has happened.

          If one gets sick, the MARRIED mate can step up and direct the care of that loved one. If not married, unless you have power of attorny you have no legal say and can be pushed aside by direct family members. Also, in intensive care, it is often FAMILY members only. Your not married, your not family.

          go to the justice of the peace and protect what you have built and will build together. Unless your feelings are not that strong for this person so your just “shacked up” until you get bored with them.”

          —————–
          Not only did I point-by-point show you in my last post why your presumptions are that marriage is more beneficial to a couple than non-married life in the UK were invalid, but I also point it out for the USA as well. But, I’ll review the reasons your original arguments give no LEGAL benefit of marriage for unmarried couples over staying singly cohabitative so that it’s in plain-to-read styling.

          – The tax breaks are there for single individuals as well as married…as well either case being about to claim children as dependents.

          – Medical for each person under their own individual policy for themself is usually cheaper than it is for one of the married person covering (as it is usually put under insurance terms here) “employee + 1” (themselves and their spouse/dependent) or “employee + family”.

          – Inheritance is designatable. The only risk you running of your family losing right to everything is if you don’t get off your lazy arse and do the right thing and do a will and other legal documents (and yes…I already have a will and everything else…and I’m single). In fact if you are married and don’t designate explicitly in a will, many states can put your estate into probate and drain it of money (Michigan is one, because that thief lawyer and accountant in Flint drained my great aunt’s husband’s trust under Michigan law for millions while it was in “probate” even tho she was married to him for over 50 years). Marriage under law guarantees you NOTHING legally other than state recognition that you were married.

          – If you’ve done what’s right, you can designate who is authorized to speak for you medically as well. I’ve done this and given my parents right to say that I am not to be resuscitated, etc. And, the person does not have to be related. And if your wife doesn’t respond in time due to being delayed in contact and a hospital makes decisions, sometimes then under law your wife can’t pull you off a respirator and such. You had to have a living will or it becomes a court matter.

          – And finally, I agree with Fonken…a piece of paper has NOTHING to do with how much you love someone or how valid your relationship is. Somewhere way back when, your ancestors farmed and roamed and never got married…just like mine did…and their bond had NOTHING to do with a piece of paper. So, are you implying that your ancestors…my ancestors…Fonken’s ancestors…loved each other any less than you loved your wife when you first got together? I’m hope not. It is simply Christian religious ideology that drives the precept that marriage is the only “valid” way to live together.

          As for my “socialist paradise”, you push that ridiculous label on my ideals simply because I don’t agree with you. However, my views on marriage aren’t socialist at all. They just aren’t as hard-line Christian as yours.

          Fact is, living singly together vs living married together has nothing to do with a political ideology such as socialism….it has to do with pushing Christian fundamentalism. So, your label is inaccurate and invalid as you have used it.

          You ideology on marriage enforces the concept that the only “valid” way a “valid” loving relationship can exist between two people who live together is for them to be married. That is your opinion…and, you have the right to have that within your home.

          It is not fact that married living is any more beneficial in LEGAL terms than single cohabitation, and I’ve pointed out why.

          And, Fonken has pointed out that a “stable” relationship can exist in the situation he’s in, and marriage offers him no benefit in the UK either.

          Hence, your argument boils down to nothing more than the one vaguely worded sentence that you were right in stating:

          “While I admit that my response was not a global response, they ARE valid in some places that value the traditional family and do things to encourage.”

          You are totally accurate. *some* places. And, Fonken’s place is not one of them that follows “traditional family” values as you so declare them to be. He, like any other humans who have a relationship, define the basis of their “family”. They are “valid” wherever people choose to implement them as part of their relationship.

          Anyways…I ask you to:

          -prove me wrong on grounds that marriage is more beneficial than not being under your 3 original points of taxes, medical and inheritance.

          -prove me wrong in that there is a benefit, other than religious acceptance, to being married “..if people plan to start breeding…”

          -prove me wrong that having the same name is more important to a child’s upbringing than the two people being together and having a strong, loving relationship.

          LI’m not the commie heathen sinful bastard you allude to me being. I’ve never lived with anyone other than family. But, I see flaws in your conclusions.

          Marriage offers no additional LEGAL or social benefit to a couple (and if present, their children) other than some relief from a religiously-driven social stigma and state recognition of a relationship that already existed.

          As for the push for the godless country you mention, we all have freedom to worship whatever god we choose… Allah… Jehovah/Yahweh… Buddah…it’s guaranteed us under our constitution.

          I’d say if there’s any increase in Godlessness, it’s because of the display of jerkos like Swaggart, Hinn, Angley, Bakker, Wesley, Tilton, and the like…that turn Americans off to God because of their self-proclaimed righteousness but then are shown to be breaking the commandments and God’s law they claim to uphold.

          Plus, I think the moral decline in this country isn’t mainly because of lack of marriage…I think it’s because of lack of character, i.e.- people screwing others financially, increased drug use and availability, etc etc.

          Nonetheless…I’ve spent way too much time on this post.

        • #3066187

          Now your going to tell me

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          Marriage is a religious thing?

          Never was their an athiest that got married? If so, WHY would they? (help me here Neil)

          If Marriage means NOTHING as you proclaim and is only part of an old overbearing church structure, why is there such a big deal being made about gay marriage? It is a non-issue, right? Why would someone take a non-issue to the supreme court? Because Marriage DOES have a lot of value to more than just the religious people in the world.

          You, in your blind attempts to be politically correct and completely non-judgemental are left with no convictions or principles to base your life on.

          The “points” that you have been hammering about I had conceded back in the “oops” post. He asked for some reasons, I gave him SOME reasons. Just because there are other ways around it to get the SAME benifits you get with marriage does not diminish the benifits. That closed that part of the discussion two days ago for everyone but you.

          When you spent your time on the people that run around like dogs having sex at will, it has NOTHING to do with what this thread was talking about either.

          I have no interest in starting a side discussion about all the reasons people might not get married or have their marriage work.

          The fact that you MIGHT get a divorce is NOT a reason to shack up. It just shows you are unwilling to make a try at it because you might fail. Shacking up failing isn’t as big of a failure. Much better to try something with all your heart and soul, than to plan on it to fail or expecting it to fail.

          Again, that is NOT what the original discussion was about. He wasn’t stating he didn’t WANT to be married, but rather that he didn’t see any value or benifit.
          [b]
          You can join in THIS discussion if you wish by either showing why marriage has no value or you can show why marriage has value.

          I have no interests in work-arounds that have already been discussed and acknowledged days ago.

        • #3066174

          ok…I’ll go slower

          by jck ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          “You can join in THIS discussion if you wish by either showing why marriage has no value or you can show why marriage has value.”

          Dude…I just did that…I took half a dozen of your points and turned them over…maybe I wrote too much for you to bother reading it.

          But if you need one paragraph to understand, it is this:

          Marriage offers no LEGAL benefit to the relationship of a couple over remaining singly living together in respect to taxes, medical cost, or inheritance. Marriage also offers no additional love to an already loving relationship. Marriage only offers to reduce the amount of harassment the couple and any children will receive from those who hold to the concept that a relationship can only be “valid” if a marriage occurs.

          There…is that simple enough? Can you understand that? I hope that’s what you’re looking for.

          Now as for your comment:
          “Marriage is a religious thing?”

          You are the one who has been spouting the “bastard” term, which is a term which was established by the Christian-based church from an Old French term “fils de bast” which means “packsaddle son” in about 1223. That term for a child born out of wedlock spurns from Christian ethos and not common morality outside of religion.

          So, you are the one who derived the Christian ethos as part of your argument. I was simply applying my argument to your argumentative basis.

          Also, I’d like to point out that the UK in 1989 abolished the legality of “bastardity” under law. Hence, you can not legally qualify someone as a bastard in the UK. Hence, the only way Fonken’s children can be validated as “bastard” is in terms of religious designation.

          OK…what else do you want me to argue about now?

          P.S.- I can join any argument I want…I’m a TR Member!!! WOOHOO!!!! Praise God!! Hallelujah!!! AMEN!

          BTW…the basic point is: You can’t give someone a “benefit” if they already have it.

        • #3066002

          Now I have to take offense here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          All this week everyone been calling into question if my parents where married I’ve been hearing all week You BASTARD just fix the F###en thing so we can work again! 😉

          But at least it was only their file server and not their E-Mail Server or I would never have heard the end of that mess up. :^O

          Col ]:)

        • #3070087

          oh God no!!

          by jck ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          You can’t screw up someone’s email!!! They might miss their E-bay alerts!! 😉

        • #3069997

          Good Point

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          After all who needs a File Server the Mail Server is just so much more important isn’t it? But I didn’t think of them missing their E-Bay Alerts now I fully understand. 😉

          Now the only person I have to come to grips with is a company owner who is constantly complaining that work is getting in the way of his Porn Searching and can I stop the work from popping up and distracting him. :p

          Col ]:)

        • #3069989

          File servers?

          by jck ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          We don’t need no stinking file servers!!!

          hahaha…just email files to each other, since the mail server is working ]:)

          As for things getting in the way of his porn…the only thing that should be allowed to do that…is his secretary!! ]:)

          have a good weekend…I’m heading out at noon. Oil change…then eye doctor…then tomorrow morning, going to Pensacola to look at a guitar.

        • #3069983

          Well I hope you like the AXE

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          Personally I’m planing on a close inspection of the inside of my eye lids after the 80 + hours that I’ve put in this week.

          Baring any emergence work coming up over the weekend I’m free but then again that’s what I thought last weekend and I wasn’t even on call. Now if I had of sent the guy who was on call out to that mess I could have had a nice slack week but instead I went out and did all of the nasty work I think I need to see a shrink but I’ll have to do a few more big jobs before I can afford the first consultation. :^O

          But after a few hundred hours of sleep I’m going to finish off stripping a Mercedes and then decide if it’s worth repairing. They way that I feel at the moment it will have to be in very good condition to warrant all of that work though. I’ll try to get away with I brought this for parts for car Honey. :p

          Col ]:)

        • #3069907

          hmmm

          by jck ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          I try to get away with working as little as possible on a weekend, but that always gets blown out of the water…whether it’s sanding and repainting the garage door, powerwashing the walls and patio and walks, etc etc…I hardly ever get a free weekend.

          Kinda hopin the axe is in good shape. It’s a Taylor K20CE all Hawaiian Koa guitar with pearl inlay neck, etc etc. I talked with a guitar tech at Taylor and he told me everything to look for to see if it’s been mistreated, stored improperly, etc. I’m praying (seeing as I’m putting 12-14 hours of driving in and $80 of gas) it is in great condition bar the minute ding between 2 tuners and a couple hairline fretboard cracks he told me about (which Taylor said any good repairman can fix and you’d never know it’d been cracked…lucky my buddy has been a guitar repairman for over 30 years…hehe).

          And yes, I got kept at the office. I’m having to look at code for interfacing remote calls to Groupwise using its own MAPI.

          God…I never get to leave when I’m promised I can. 🙁

          Glad I have fresh beer at home!!!!!

          BTW Col…mind refreshing me mind where Queensland is at in Australia? I got friends near Sydney, Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane.

          Also…Sept 2007 is my planned arrival time in Sydney. That’ll be my next trip after my 2006 Ireland + UK brain-scrambling rushing-to-see-everyone “vacation”.

        • #3070263

          Queensland has a small country town

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You have heard the term

          As its capitol called Brisbane. We are about 1,200 K’s {that’s about 750 Miles} north of Sydney well at least where I live in Brisbane where are my Brother in Law lives north of Cairns which is at least 1,400 K (875 miles} north of Brisbane and still in the same state.

          The only claim to fame besides having a Kiwi as Premier for several centuries who was so incompetent that it was laughable is the Great Barrier Reef which through the careful management by the State Government they seem to be destroying at an alarming fast rate. If you run a ship into the reef you’re up for a horrendous fine but it’s perfectly acceptable to dump hundreds of tons of fertiliser per year onto the reef as run off from the farms.

          We are up north in the Cyclone Belt and see them regularly but for the last few years there hasn’t been a bad one hit the place so I suppose we are due for one or more soon. 😉

          When Sir Joe Be Often Peeded Upon was Premier it was a standing joke that when you arrived here from Sydney you turned your watch back 1 hour as we don’t have Daylight Saving like the rest of the East Coast and your calender back 50 years. :^O

          But the up side is that if you live close to the Queensland NSW border you can celebrate the New Years twice within a hour so there are some good points to the insane actions of the Government. If I need something from Sydney to be sent up I need to call them before the shops open here to make sure it arrives the next day as they close off their Overnight delivery service at 9.00 AM Daylight Saving Time.

          I also once missed a aircraft as I rang them the previous day and just checked when the plane left and they told me 2.30 so when I arrived at 1.45 I saw the plane take off and head south apparently the airports work on Daylight Saving Time but they didn’t think it necessary to inform me of that fact, they just expected me to know. I replied that they could use any time zone that they liked provided that they told me which time zone they where using and if they tell me a time I expect it to be the local time and not GMT. Well I got the next aircraft at 5.00 am the next morning and was only a little late in getting back. :p

          Col ]:)

    • #3073470

      that’s nice.

      by itgirli ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      And what do you have against divorced, single mothers? Maybe if you wouldn’t judge people first, you could find someone to make you happy. I am against marriage myself, but not giving someone a chance because they are a single parent is a really stupid thing to do.

      • #3073422

        Of course

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to that’s nice.

        anytime you pre-judge someone negatively, it is you that may be missing out.

        While there are a lot of people that do not want to walk into the “ready made family”, there are still a lot that will find this a very rewarding thing.

        There can be a lot more baggage walking into this, but for the right person it is worth it.

        In some ways, the divorced people will make BETTER mates as long as they realize that no matter how bad the other person was there are still things THEY could have done differently. I am not the same person I was when I got married, and will be much better prepared to treat women in a way that THEY want to be treated. (Just never KNEW what that was, because “If I have to tell you to do it, it isn’t special” BS that women throw around.)

        • #3057857

          ohgoodgrief…

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to Of course

          “If I have to tell you to do it, it isn’t special”

          Apologies in advance for what will probably turn into a rant….

          Look at it from a female point of view, just for once: you’re supposed to be our lives, loves, support, best friend etc. And you STILL don’t know what is special to us? Surely, if we mean anything to you at all, you would at least have SOME idea of where the ball park is?

          Prime example: About 6 months before IF (Idiot Features) and I split, it was my birthday. He always asked me outright what I wanted. Now, bearing in mind here, that we both knew I had arthritis, I asked for something that might help with the problems I was having with my hands/wrists at the time.

          Enjoy this one – he got me……..dumbells.

          Seriously.

          Didn’t even dare try lifting them off the floor in case I broke my hand again. Get the point?

          On the other side of the coin is the fact that we give you TOO MUCH information/requests. Even mere statements, applied more than once, are considered to be – careful guys, swear word here – NAGGING.

          My own way of working is to only ask/state things 3 times: after that he can do what he likes with the information, I won’t mention it again. Should he do nothing with the information, that’s up to him. Should it be detrimental in some way, that’s down to him. Had I not made the information available to him at least once, that would be my fault. But I state/request the information three times only. Or I could be considered to be nagging….. (aaagh! Cardinal Sin!)

          Which is why, at this present point in time, with a family party looming this Sunday, he’s working hell for leather in the house, to finish certain bits of work in the house that he just didn’t bother finishing whilst doing the actual job in hand. Surprisingly, it has only taken two years to put up a door frame, and gloss paint two windowsills.

          Having said that, it has taken around 8 years for HOB (Him On Board) to take in the fact that I seriously meant it when I asked for help with the food shopping. After lifting some shopping and getting caught up with the front gate the other weekend, he realised I was serious, but only because I’d re-broken 2 small, previously broken umpteen times bones in my hand.

          Oh, and while I’m ranting, what is it about guys that makes them go to extremes? After the above, he thinks he should come shopping with me all the time, even though he hates it. What part of “I can carry light things” doesn’t he understand? Blimey, he wanted to come and carry shopping last weekend, and all I was going for was underwear! (and yes, he hates shopping that much that even underwear, his or mine, is a chore for him)

          Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous!

          Anyway, apologies, but I think you can see a few (well, maybe) valid points in there (if you’re lucky).

          Rant officially over. Less stressed now. thanx all! 😀

          GG

        • #3057788

          nag nag nag

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to ohgoodgrief…

          :^O

          Knew that would get you going! BWAAHAAAHAAAAHAAAA! 😀

          Honestly though, there ARE many times I have been told EXACTLY “If I have to tell you blahblahblah”.

          If I bring home flowers of Sweetest day, instead of “Oh, they are lovely. Thanks!”, I get “too bad you only do it on a day like this”.

          There ARE times we just don’t connect! Remember, the whole musical quality of your voice has us so mesmerised that we lose focus! I saw it posted on TR so it must be true!

          Oh sure, there are times we just don’t listen or get stuff done as quickly as others think it should be. Details. Two years sounds reasonable to me! ;\

          Men don’t listen sometimes and don’t hear the rest of the time. So? (hee hee)

          Some of us TRY, but just are not good at it. But in our defense we were just as bad when you first fell in love with us. Kind of like a big, dumb, lovable dog. As long as we don’t pee on the floor we are doing good. Now come rub my belly!

        • #3069469

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to nag nag nag

          there you go…….

          😀

          Good Boy!

          :p

          now – roll over…….! ]:)

          GG

        • #3069343

          GG

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to

          😡

        • #3069338

          so, now I suppose you want

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to GG

          your back scratched, your ears tickled, and some choccy drops????

          😀

          Or should that read whips, chains and chocolate body paint ????

          ]:)

          GG

        • #3066133

          no GG…

          by jck ·

          In reply to GG

          GG,

          King Swill must tell you…jdclyde would have to either just shack up with you…or make a life plan with you before having a relationship with you.

          I on the other hand…am a socialist commie pinko heathen bastard…but, I understand love isn’t a legality 😉

          Screw the paper!!! no…wait…no good…papercuts…OUCH!!!! ]:) (that one is only gonna make him more upset)

        • #3070480

          yes jck

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to GG

          papercuts down there WOULD upset me, you pagen. :p

          “socialist commie pinko heathen bastard”

          As I have only insinuated the [b]socialist[/b] of that, based on the way you represent yourself in all of the political and social discussions. You must agree with the other half to put it in yourself? Think about that one……

          You did forget “liberal progressive in republicans clothing”.

        • #3057690

          you know GG I have to agree

          by surflover ·

          In reply to ohgoodgrief…

          with JD (but that rant was priceless… are you still with that guy?) I’m sure you felt better after that… what JD eludes to is that men marry women expecting them to stay as they are and they dont, and women marry men expecting that they’ll change, and they don’t…

          …but I will give the women one… men try much harder when they’re dating to appear that they’re listening… I’m not sure any of REALLY ever listen… what did you say? :^O

        • #3057679

          The proper term is

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to you know GG I have to agree

          “Oh, did you say something?”

        • #3069467

          I SAID…..

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to you know GG I have to agree

          (sorry, irresistible!)

          Which guy did you mean? I.F or HOB ?

          Divorced IF about 12 years ago, still with HOB (hmm)

          I must be excepting myself from the rules again – I have stayed as I was…..despite both of the above!!! 😀

          GG

      • #3073384

        Lord

        by jck ·

        In reply to that’s nice.

        I’m glad it was not asked of me.

        hahaha… 😀

      • #3072682

        stupid?

        by lumbergh77 ·

        In reply to that’s nice.

        Everybody judges, including yourself.

        I refuse to support and/or raise another man’s offspring. So why waste time dating a single mother?

        • #3072585

          You’re both right

          by jck ·

          In reply to stupid?

          a) To exclude all single mothers would be to eliminate the possibility of someone who is right for you. It could mean you’re missing out on the one person who can make you happy. But is it stupid? No…but, I would consider it a bit naive.

          b) To judge someone’s ideals simply as “stupid” because they don’t want the responsibility (i.e.- doing what someone else *should* have been responsible enough to do in the first place in most cases) of raising someone else’s child(ren) is judgemental in itself and as stupid as your analysis of his stance. It’s a personal preference of his choosing for which he has determined he wishes to choose his future spouse.

          I actually think drago’s approach is best, though in relation to the children that would be involved. For drago762 to be in a relationship with someone who has child(ren) and not give them the attention that they deserve would be unhealthy for the kid(s) and unfair to them as well. A child can’t help who their parents are or how they are treated by them.

          I used to think like you too, drago. But, I have re-thought my views (since I was a teenager) and think differently now about dating someone with children.

          But, I fully endorse your right to make the decisions based on what you want from life. It is, after all, your life.

        • #3073248

          you’re right

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to You’re both right

          I wouldn’t want him around anyone’s kids.

        • #3073207

          Agreed

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to you’re right

          He shouldn’t be around anyone else’s kids. I suppose this is a ‘to each his own’ kinda situation. I have 4 children, the two older kids are my stepdaughters. So, I have been raising someone else’s kids. I also love my stepdaughters as if they were my birth children. They are so much a part of me that I can’t imagine my life without them. I’m glad I didn’t get hung up on the whole ‘not my kid/not my responsibility’ thing.

        • #3073123

          A closed mind

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Agreed

          is a dangerous thing.

          To write-off someone just because they have a child is very imature to say the least.

          Now, if the woman has several kids, from a few different fathers, you are starting to see a trend that is not something you want to be a part of.

          Got to take the time to look at each situation and judge them on their merits. YES, I said JUDGE. You SHOULD make judgements on who you want in your life and who you don’t. There are standards that you should have on how you live your life, and anyone that enters your life MUST meet these standards. You will never respect anyone that does not meet up with your personal standards, and anyone that LOWERS their own personal standards show no conviction and will lose any respect THEY had with others.

          Income is not a standard, nor is the families background.

          Drug addicts, drunks, thiefs, violent people. These ARE valid reasons to judge people on and exclude them from your life. (yes, there are more. Think of that at the “readers digest list”)

          I was with a woman that had two kids, and loved them as closely as I do my own boys now. The youngest would have just graduated high school a year ago, and I often wonder how she turned out. Her brother was two years older and I don’t know if he went to college or not. I tried to look her up a few years back to see how the kids are, but couldn’t find her. she married and divorced and so I don’t know her name or even if she is in the state anymore or not. Would have liked to have sent the kids a graduation gift as they finished school.

        • #3073104

          Of course

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to A closed mind

          You have to make judgements. I really try not to judge people based on their actions (barring the really bad things like child molestation, rape, murder, etc.) because I haven’t lived their life, so who am I to judge? However, when making a decision to share your life with another person, judgements have to be made.

        • #3072994

          one question…

          by jck ·

          In reply to A closed mind

          If you were dating a woman, jdclyde…and you knew she was divorced…and you guys got serious and she opened up to you one night and told you she’d cheated on her first husband…and that’s why the marriage broke up…would you treat her any differently that you had before you knew?

        • #3071521

          Of course I would

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to A closed mind

          If someone will cheat once, what is to stop them from doing it again? I don’t believe there is EVER justification for having an affair.

          If life is so miserable, leave the relationship BEFORE whoring around.

          It is one thing to walk away. It is a completely different thing to betray your partner like that and I would not accept that.

          Like I told Mae in a different reply, even after I KNEW my wife was unfaithful and was planning on leaving me (knew that for over three years) I never went out on her.

          I started having drinks only AFTER she moved out and still have not been intimate with anyone but myself since the EX left.

          Tell me a woman confessing that to you would not change the way you think about her? You have expressed your feelings about cheaters before, and unless you have changed your mind I don’t think you would let it slide either.

        • #3071493

          actually

          by jck ·

          In reply to A closed mind

          I wouldn’t condone what she’d done…but, I wouldn’t immediately assume she was going to do it to me. I’d probably ask her why she did it first.

          However, I wouldn’t lie to her and tell her I still trust her as much as I did before.

          And yes, I hate cheating…flat out. And, you’ll never hear me say it’s okay…ever. I might say I can’t blame someone…but, I’ll never say it was okay…there’s always divorce.

          But, I’d have her explain the whole situation. Maybe she got married at 15 or 16 cause she was pregnant and was pushed by family? Who knows?

          Now…if it was her whorin around…I don’t just mean single incident, drunk at a party kinda thing…but that she was sleeping with anyone who pulled out his unit…then…I’d totally turn.

          Of course, what woman would tell you that kinda thing unless you’re asking for qualifications? 😀 (that’s humour btw…)

        • #3071418

          very immature?

          by lumbergh77 ·

          In reply to A closed mind

          How would you like it if I called you “immoral” because you went through a divorce? Not that you are but that’s just as ignorant as calling me immature for my opinion.

          I’m a responsible, hard working citizen (don’t smoke, not too much drinking, work hard, keep in shape, educate myself, not a burden on others, etc). Mommy and Daddy didn’t pay for me to go away to school for 4 years to party. I worked 2 jobs to put myself through school in my late teens/early 20s. Not that it’s a great accomplishment because many others have done it. But don’t you DARE call me immature because I expect the same responsibility/work ethic of a partner as I have. I’m not a burden on my fellow man. And I don’t expect others to pay for my mistakes.

          I agree that drug addicts, drunks, thiefs, and violent people ARE valid reasons to judge people. But just because one isn’t a thief or drug addict doesn’t mean they’ll make a suitable partner. When it comes to marriage, you can damn well bet that I will judge somebody for irresponsible and promiscuous behavior. And be DAMNED SURE that it’s somebody I’m willing to spend the rest of my life with.

          It’s okay to be open minded but sometimes ya gotta use common sense.

        • #3071259

          drago, an explanation

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to A closed mind

          First, am I correct that you are in your early to mid twenties? MANY men have said the same thing you have said, and they change as they grow older. Won’t convice you of this now, but think back on this in ten years and send me an email when you see things differently. 🙂

          [b]No one said anything about your CHARACTER[/b], which is very different from having real life experiences that change (and scar) us all. Never knocked your work ethics, or your educations. [b]Was not meant as an attack or even a bad thing. [/b]Again, even my statement and the way it was recieved WILL make sence to you in about ten years.

          [b]Immoral for going through a divorce.[/b] I AM going through a divorce. I go to court next Monday, matter of fact. My wife fell in love with someone else and left me. (The ugly details are in my divorce discussion you might have seen mentioned in the “too hot for TR” a few months back.) What would a “moral” man do when his wife leaves him, in a state that has “no-fault” divorces so she doesn’t need my concent?

          I now have 13 year old twin boys that I have joint custody of. Was I irrisponsible or do something wrong to end up with children? Even after I found out she was leaving me, I was never “promiscuous”. after she left me, I have had a few drinks with women, but have not had sex with anyone but my wife in over 15 years.

          All of this would make me a bad person?

          Not every single mother was some crack-whore that got knocked up. Many are very good people that have (like me) found themselves in a bad situation and are trying to make the best of it.

          Judge, but don’t generalize is what I am trying to say. There is a lot more to the story often.

          Did not mean to offend, but completely understand how it was taken that way. Not all kids of single parents are “mistakes”.

        • #3073113

          yeah

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to Agreed

          I don’t want to have any other kids myself, but I would prefer that if I found a guy, that he would be satisfied with having my son as a child or come with his own. I really don’t want to put my body through the stress of maternity and labor again. Though I would like to be a foster parent someday.

        • #3073109

          That is admirable

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to yeah

          I can handle the kids we have and one goldfish and that’s about it. It’s good that people who really CARE about children want to take care of them, I think there are too many people who take on foster kids to get the government assistance.

        • #3073105

          I want foster kids

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to yeah

          So I don’t have to get fat again, so I’m not sure if it a more noble thing.

        • #3073102

          Well

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to yeah

          I guess if the outcome is that a child is loved and cared for, the original reason for doing so doesn’t matter all that much.

        • #3071514

          The point is

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to yeah

          You would want another child to love and care for, not the method you would go about to get that child.

          There is NOTHING wrong with wanting another child, but not wanting to go through child birth again yourself, especially when there are so many kids out there already that so desperately need ANYONE to love.

          Don’t sell yourself short.

        • #3071420

          alrighty then

          by lumbergh77 ·

          In reply to Agreed

          I’ll tell my Godson that I will have nothing further to do with him because MAECUFF said so.

        • #3071296

          Don’t be ridiculous

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to alrighty then

          What I’m saying is, if you have such an attitude about single mothers then it IS probably best that you stay away from them. Unless it’s your godsons mother that you wish to date?

        • #3072998

          can I ask…

          by jck ·

          In reply to you’re right

          why that statement?

          He just said he doesn’t want to have to raise and/or pay for anyone else’s children. He didn’t say he didn’t like kids.

          I was saying it’d be wrong for him to get married to or involved with a woman who has a kid or kids because those kids deserve love and attention. And if you’re going to be a full-time part of the woman’s life it’s not fair to exclude the children…and it’s not mentally healthy.

          I really don’t get your angst toward him…really.

        • #3071417

          the feeling is mutual

          by lumbergh77 ·

          In reply to you’re right

          .

        • #3071426

          question

          by austin316 ·

          In reply to You’re both right

          Who says ya NEED a partner to make ya happy? I’m single and happy as can be.

        • #3071255

          It is an individual thing

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to question

          Marriage is not for everyone, that is a fact.

          Many feel good when they have someone around that they feel very deeply for. If your not one of those people then just pick the path that will make YOU happy.

          I can’t tell you the pure joy I get from spending time with my twin boys though. I used to run around and have fun when I was younger, but the fun didn’t stay. I also used to get a real good feeling just being in the same house as my wife, until I learned that she was in love, just not with me.

          Good luck, whichever route you go.

        • #3072988

          Stupid is right, drago

          by m_a_r_k ·

          In reply to stupid?

          [i]You refuse to support and/or raise another man’s offspring??[/i] What about a widow with children? Are you being a bit close-minded? Childish or immature, perhaps? I’ve known a lot of guys with bizarre preconceived notions, but this one ranks pretty high on the list.

        • #3072975

          M_a_r_k

          by jck ·

          In reply to Stupid is right, drago

          I, again, think he’s more naive than anything…that’d account for all of the above.

          BTW…as I said before…when I was 17-19…I was of the same mentality…I wasn’t gonna support some lazy guy’s kids and be a “Bisquick daddy”. Then, I met a girl who was great…she had a baby. Ya change your tune when you are faced with reality.

          Basically, Drago is:

          a) eliminating the possibility of happiness with someone simply because she has a child,

          and

          b) is essentially going to punish the woman *and* child for the fact that father is possibly being a dead-beat and/or non-attentive father.

          I just think he’ll change his tune one of these days when he meets a great girl and goes out with her a couple of times and starts to really like her…then finds out she has a 2 year old.

          It’s just naiveity…or better yet…ignorance of the reality of a situation….but, the closed-minded and all goes with naiveity. Give him time…I think once the right snowball hits his face, he’ll wake up to reality.

          He just has more to learn in life…that’s all.

          Plus, I don’t think he was remarking on widows particularly…just girls who have babies whose fathers are lazy, inattentive bastards. Widows are a whole other story…no choice of what the father does there.

        • #3072969

          Actually

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to M_a_r_k

          even if they aren’t widows, they can’t be held responsible for their lazy bastard ex husbands. My son’s father was a WONDERFUL dad to our child when we first divorced. Then he married a woman who came between him and my son and he pretty much abandoned him for years. My son is now 18 years old and is rebuffing every effort his dad is making to reconnect with him. I have tried to convince my son to forgive him (for my son’s sake) but to no avail thus far. I feel bad for my ex, because he knows he was wrong and he is really trying hard, but, he made his bed a long time ago.

        • #3071497

          STOP right there

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Actually

          You have no business feeling bad for your EX.

          You did right to make an attempt for your SONS sake, to have a relationship with his male parental unit. If he choses to give the EX a chance it will be on his terms, not your EX’s. (ever hear the song “bridge” by Queensryche”? It fits)

          Your only duty is to your SON, and that is to be supportive and not ever poison the well. Many teens are hurt and angry in the best of times. Give him about five years.

        • #3071491

          I hear you

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to STOP right there

          But I can say that he is truly sorry for what he did and takes full responsibility. And yes, my concern is for my son. I care more about his happiness than just about anything in this world. Can’t say I know the Queensryche song. I’m stuck more in the old punk world more than the old metal world.

        • #3071479

          Bridge

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to STOP right there

          You called me up on the phone today
          struggling with the right words to say.
          Time can change a thing or two.
          Time has changed the lives of me and you,
          but you know… it could have been different dad.
          The word brings back a sweet memory.
          I’m sitting on a bluff on a broken tree,
          by my side a distinguished man
          giving me encouragement, telling me I can,
          and you know… you’re not there.
          You say, Son, let’s forget the past,
          I want another chance, gonna make it last.
          You’re begging me for a brand new start,
          trying to mend a bridge that’s been blown apart,
          but you know… you never built it dad.
          So I sit here through the night,
          and I write myself to sleep,
          and time keeps ticking…
          Time has made you finally realize
          your loneliness and your guilt inside.
          You’re reaching for something you never had,
          turning around now you’re looking back,
          and you know… I’m not there.
          You say, Son, let’s forget the past.
          I want another chance, gonna make it last.
          You’re begging me for a brand new start,
          trying to mend a bridge that’s been blown apart,
          but you know… you never built it dad.

        • #3071294

          Perfect

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to STOP right there

          I hope my son never hears it.

        • #3071246

          Some songs just talk to you

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to STOP right there

          The guitar player, Chris DeGarmo, wrote this about his own dad.

          Songs like this help me to make sure I do things right NOW so I don’t look back thirty years from now saying “if only I had done it differently”.

        • #3071502

          Option B is not what he said

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to M_a_r_k

          There are many reasons that the father is not with the mother. Many of them have nothing to do with being a deadbeat or non-attentive.

          He only stated he would not be the add-a-pappa (not in those words) and gave no qualifiers as to anything other than the woman is now single and has a child.

          I agree about the naiveity and he will grow up one day, but the option B is giving him more credit than is due.

          Till he grows up, Girli and Mae are dead on. Keep him away from kids that are not his.

        • #3071488

          I’m just tellin ya

          by jck ·

          In reply to Option B is not what he said

          I was of the same mind…and I was great with kids…your packing him in with people who’d be a danger to kids.

          I didn’t actually want kids when I was 18. I never wanted em for myself, but I was great with them. I even mentored grade school kids in Spanish my senior year. The fact I didn’t wanna father kids didn’t mean I would be bad for the kids.

          Just seems rash to exclude him from being around kids because he doesn’t want to be the provider for kids of a guy who should be doing that instead of him.

          As for the raising someone else’s kids…that’s the real naiveity part. If you’re gonna marry the woman…you accept her as a whole…that includes any exs, kids, family and financials that come along with her.

          You don’t marry just a body…you marry a past, a present, and a future.

        • #3071477

          Never said danger

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I’m just tellin ya

          Just that he should stay away from them.

          Kids see more than many realize and if you resent them being there they see that too.

          He is not ready to accept them as-is, and until he is he would do well to just stay away.

          This is saying nothing about kids in general, just kids of women that he might otherwise have been interested in. “I would have liked your mom, if wasn’t for you” is not a good message to send.

        • #3071320

          that in itself

          by jck ·

          In reply to I’m just tellin ya

          is a danger to the child, jdclyde.

          It’s called mental abuse.

          I still say he might not be that way to kids in general, but that he just doesn’t want to have to carry the burden of a child whose own father isn’t doing what his responsibilty is.

          Sure, there are widows and what not especially now more than other times in recent American history with the Iraq and Afghanistan thing going on now. But because he doesn’t want to be the mental and fiscal provide for a child who, in most cases I think he’s leaning toward, has a father who is *not* doing what he should…you shouldn’t discount the possibility he isn’t good with kids.

          It just means that he doesn’t want to do what someone else should be doing.

          And again, that is part of his right in deciding who he choses to be with.

          And, I still think it naive. I’ve been there. When he meets a girl one of these days that he’s all head-over-heels for…then finds out she has a baby or something…he’ll either lose the naiveity that it’s okay to love the kid along with the woman and (if needed) help her pursue any lazy father who exists to make him meet his obligations at least financially to that child…or, he’ll stay set in his ways.

          Anyways…I don’t think his not wanting to shoulder anyone else’s responsibilities is a bad thing. I just think it’s his choice to make in choosing who he marries. He doesn’t want the proverbial “baggage” and he can make that choice in his life.

          Just like it’s your choice to keep your kids away from him if you think it makes him bad. 🙂

        • #3071415

          any more insults?

          by lumbergh77 ·

          In reply to Option B is not what he said

          This is getting so ridiculous it’s funny.
          Just because I refuse to date single mothers, I’m immature and a bad person? Geez….you’d think I just got out of prison or something.
          Do you have any more insults to throw at me?

          I’m sorry if I offended you with my original post but this thread is turning into a joke.

        • #3071252

          Who ever said you were “Bad”?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to any more insults?

          Not I.

          All I said is that you should not be around these children because they will KNOW that you do not want them there.

          Kids of single parents have already been rejected (at least in their mind) by one of their parents many times. They don’t need someone new coming along and rejecting them as well.

          Do you understand the point I was trying to make? THE KIDS do not need any more rejection in their lives from someone that thinks they are a “mistake” as you put it. THEY didn’t choose their lives and have almost no say in what has happened to them.

          Peace.

        • #3071508

          It is a very common response

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Stupid is right, drago

          from a kid that is between 18 to 22.

          I have known others that have said the same thing and them later on end up married to women with kids.

          Kids say many things that they don’t understand yet. Don’t be too hard on him. In ten years he will be the one telling some other kid how stupid they are.

        • #3071487

          Is drago really a 20-yr old?

          by m_a_r_k ·

          In reply to It is a very common response

          If so, then no futher explanation is needed. You’re right, jd. If he’s 20, I understand where he’s coming from. If he’s 40, that’s a different story. He’s just a normal 20-yr old whose feelings will change and whose mind will open. We’ve all been there.

        • #3071422

          oh yeah?

          by lumbergh77 ·

          In reply to Stupid is right, drago

          If my refusal to raise another man’s offspring ranks high on your list of bizarre preconceived notions, there’s obviously something wrong with your list.

          Seems that I struck a nerve. If you’re raising somebody else’s kids, I got no problem with that. More power to ya. But don’t rip me for my opinion. You want bizarre? How about the jerk who goes to the bar 5 times a week and doesn’t pay child support. Or the couple who files for divorce for selfish reasons, making their kids pay. THAT is bizarre and there is more and more of that going on.

          Don’t make me out to be an a**hole because I’m not willing to take over another man’s responsibility. The REAL a**hole is the guy who walks out on his family. Or the woman who screws around with the “bad boys”, hoping to change them. I feel bad for these kids. I really do. They’re born into a rotten situation. But it’s not my responsibility to support them for 18 years. If that makes me selfish, so be it. But not as selfish as the REAL parents.

          Immature? YOU are the one who’s resorting to petty name calling. Grow up.

        • #3071416

          You got it wrong, pal

          by m_a_r_k ·

          In reply to oh yeah?

          But I’m glad you do have it wrong. I actually wish there were more guys like you running around. That gives guys like me a helluva lot less competition for all the great single women out there who have children. So PLEASE spread your opinions to all your single buddies and try to convince them to think the same way as you. And another thing, I hope you’re a gentleman and are honest with any single mother that you may date and tell her up front that you like her but are disgusted by her kids. Have a good day, little drago.

        • #3071413

          re: You got it wrong, pal

          by lumbergh77 ·

          In reply to You got it wrong, pal

          Why respond with a logical, well thought out post when you can resort to name calling and assumptions? Now I’m “disgusted by kids”? Whatever ya say chief.

        • #3071249

          That is just MARK

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to re: You got it wrong, pal

          The dry humo(u)r and sarcasm regularly drips from his posts and I end up having to wipe off my monitor several times a day.

          Think of it as the old men standing on the corner talking about the “dumb kids”. You don’t pay any attention to them, pay no mind to us old timers either.

          Step back, take a breath and re-read many of the posts. They were not meant as an attack on you, so much as recognising your attitude is VERY common for people in the younger age brackets and that the attitude DOES often change as you go through life.

          Hope you never have a woman do to you what happened to me, our you will become what you dislike.

        • #3071233

          Drago, I thought I finished you off once already

          by m_a_r_k ·

          In reply to re: You got it wrong, pal

          I see you’re back for more. It’s not so much [i]what[/i] you said, it was [i]how[/i] you said it. Heck, I already told you I was grateful that the world has a few guys like you in it because it makes the good guys look even better. So now what are you bitching about?

          [i]Why respond with a logical, well thought out post when you can resort to name calling and assumptions?[/i]
          Thanks for the question. I responded with a logical post because I always respond with a logical posts and I feel that name-calling serves no purpose.

        • #3071195

          A sign of maturity?

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to oh yeah?

          I think drago actually has made a pretty mature decision. He’s the only one who knows himself well enough to made a choice like that. If he feels that seeing another man’s child at 6:30 every morning for the rest of his life will give him even the slightest feelings of resentment, he’s making a mature, and I’d say a responsible decision not to put himself and a child in that position.

          Seems we’re quick to judge a guy for a one-line statement and make insightful comments on his character and “inciteful” comments to raise his hackels.

        • #3057782

          Sign of maturity

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to A sign of maturity?

          But notice instead of coming back to calmly and maturely re-stating his position, he came back name calling and was overly defensive?

          He just confused maturity for his work ethics. The one was in question, the other never came up from anyone but him.

          As for quick to judge, point out any that were out of line. We simply agree that until he is ready to accept a woman with a child that he is best to stay away from them. Which is exactly what he stated was his desire. How dare we agree?

          No one said he was a bad person.

        • #3057749

          Everybody jumped on the guy for his statement

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to Sign of maturity

          Without going back to review everything, he was told to stay away from children, that he can’t be older than early 20’s, that he must be immature, and I won’t even go into what Mark said about him. I think that if he’s got a hair up there about raising someone else’s kid, then he’s doing himself AND ESPECIALLY THE CHILD a monumental favor by avoiding the situation.

          You didn’t flame him, but some others were at least holding a match to his feet.

          On the subject of raising ohters’ kids, I lost an uncle this year who was injured in the service and couldn’t have kids. He and his wife adopted 9. Six of these cousins are doing great, but 3 have had serious problems since they were babies. When I was talking to my aunt at the funeral, she told me that her greatest disappointment was never being able to adopt twins. She would have taken them until she reached her mid 40’s if she had the chance. Now, those are the type of people that don’t have a problem raising other people’s kids.

        • #3057736

          Me? What did I say, Mambo?

          by m_a_r_k ·

          In reply to Sign of maturity

          I just [b]asked[/b] our young colleague to consider if he was thinking selfishly, immaturely or close-mindedly. I did say he has a bizarre preconceived notion about all unwed mothers. That was just my opinion about his feelings. If that’s enough to raise your hackles or his hackles, I feel sorry for you or him. You need to see a dermatologist to get a thicker layer of skin. And if my opinions mean that much to you or him to raise those same hackles, then I am supremely honored and humbled. 😀

        • #3057731

          Mark, you asked him if he was being childish

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to Sign of maturity

          I know that I read that type of statement as if it were delivered with a condescending tone. I probably should not assume that, but with the limited perception of this form of exchange, it seemed like a flame to me. Sorry if I jumped to a conclusion that I should not have. Sheesh, it’s not like you’re Oz or anything. 🙂

        • #3057723

          Gosh, you read me right, mambo

          by m_a_r_k ·

          In reply to Sign of maturity

          OK I’ll fess up. Like old George Washington, I cannot tell a lie. I [i]was[/i] asking it in a condescending tone. But so what? He deserved it. He hates women and he hates children. And he probably hates me too! :^O

        • #3057682

          Mambo/M_a_r_k… I adopted 4 girls (twins incl)

          by surflover ·

          In reply to Sign of maturity

          I wasn’t going to post anything here about it (it’s on my blog if you care), as this thing with drago seemed a bit off to me… (if I was younger, I’d date girli and probably get along with her kid better than her, j/k girli :^O)… your right mambo, there’s nothing cooler in the world than a kid who looks up to you… no matter where they come from… and I don’t think M_a_r_k’s response was that inflamatory… but the reaction to it was…

    • #3073261

      Finally!

      by cp7212 ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      And I thought I was the only one who thought like this. One of my male friends had to move back in with his parents because his wife cheated on him and took most of his paycheck. He gives her money and she shows up around town boozing it up in new clothes. He said he went to the judge and wanted proof that the money he was giving her was being used for his daughter, too. The judge told him to “just make sure you keep up with your payments”.

      I saw her out one night and asked her why she would do that to my friend and she just ignored me. I don’t think I have one friend that got married and is still married. They’re poorer, though. I would think it would be a 50/50 split. Not in Pennsylvania, USA.

      I have tried dating different profiles of women and I can’t find one that works out well. My partner at work asks why I don’t have a girlfriend. I don’t want one. Dating brings up enough issues.

      My mom and dad were happily married for 36 years. It only ended because my dad passed away. I really do envy them, because it just doesn’t happen nowadays. Nobody wants to work at it. It’s easier to just give up.

      What with the frequency of divorces, settlements, and all the sorrow that comes out of the marriage issue, who wants it? Personally, I would want to just live with someone. That way if she wants to leave, so be it, and that’s that. Take what you came with and go.

      Sometimes I think women have that stigma of being a princess for a day. One of my female friends (and her ex-husband) spent $15,000 on their wedding. He told me he would have been satisfied with a smaller wedding, but she insisted it was “her day”. So they start out their union in debt. One strike against already. Their marriage lasted two years, not happy years either.

      I know I shouldn’t make a judgment on other happenings, but historically, marriage sucks.

      Signed,
      Happily Single By Choice

      • #3072808

        Just remember

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Finally!

        that if your together (different locations have differnt rules and lenghts) but it all becomes joint property and subject to much of the same horrors of a divorce when you go to leave.

        Support is generally in place if the woman is a stay at home mom as part of the deal. That is her job at that point. You WILL be forced to continue for her to live that way after you split.

        That is why both parties must work, and both must be equals in finances and responsabilites.

        The people that you know that their marriage didn’t last, do you think it was because they got married? Just like a piece of paper doesn’t make everything perfect, it doesn’t ruin things either.

        People today are just to self-centered. Watching the BS on the chick-flicks has also poisoned the minds of many on what a perfect relationship is, and why it is ACCEPTABLE for them to have disposable relationships as long as it makes them feel good now.

        • #3072685

          I totally agree

          by lumbergh77 ·

          In reply to Just remember

          “People today are just to self-centered. Watching the BS on the chick-flicks has also poisoned the minds of many on what a perfect relationship is, and why it is ACCEPTABLE for them to have disposable relationships as long as it makes them feel good now.”

          Right on. Everybody wants instant gratification. Most don’t realize that instant gratification and long term results are mutually exclusive.

          I agree that there’s too much crap on TV these days. We worry about kids being influenced by TV. Seems that many adults are influenced as well.

        • #3072612

          its a two way street

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Just remember

          “That is why both parties must work, and both must be equals in finances and responsabilites.”

          I am a fairly modern woman, with all the responsabilites of the modern age..now, i’m not saying all men, but a good portion of men don’t really fancy doing laundry, cleaning the toilet or cooking a 3 course meal, especially after a hard days work. So when i get up and go to work for the day, get home at 7 pm and then make dinner, put in laundry, and then have to ask for someone to help with the dishes…it makes me want to walk out the door. I’m sure most of you TR lads are not like this of course 🙂
          But…i most of the guys I know are like this.

          I would love to stay at home, make proper meals and make homemade pies and cakes and hold dinner parties..god that would be so great. Instead I am up at 6:30am and out the door..and back in a 7pm..even a if i could be a part time “stay at homer”.

          At risk of being lynched..maybe “back then” marriages lasted longer because we each played a vital part and looked after each other. there was a bit of respect for what each person did. i know i am a bit old fashioned at times, but with two people working full time and commuting, and trying to be good parents and trying to cook , clean and walk the dog..where is there time for quality relationship building??

          I’m Kent Brockman, and that was my two cents.

        • #3072584

          back then marriages

          by jck ·

          In reply to its a two way street

          Back then, all most mothers did was stay home and clean, wash, cook, shop for groceries, and tend to all the domestic duties.

          As for what us TR lads are like…well…my view of it is:

          I cook for myself
          I clean for myself
          I wash for myself
          I shop for myself
          I work for myself
          I sew for myself

          So, I’m not looking for a woman to take care of me. I don’t need a mother, a maid, a seamstress or financially-supporting other half. I am just looking for someone who will *share* in the duties that are required to make things work.

          I’d love to be able to have a wife who stayed home, met the kids when they got home from school, etc etc. But in today’s world, that’s not likely for me.

        • #3073204

          Not likely for anyone

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to back then marriages

          at least not in the middle class.

          If your not uber rich, many women don’t WANT to stay home. They LIKE the social interaction that goes on in the work place.

          I would have a hard time with being at home all day long taking care of a handful of screaming kids.

          Then the “one that works” comes home after a “long day” and expects to have sympathy for such a long day?

          I KNOW how hard it is to be at home because the wife and I worked opposite shifts so someone would be with the boys at all times. I had the day shift, when the boys were up and running. I made a much better dad than I did a house keeper, sorry to say. I could “clean” for HOURS and it still would not look as good as when the wife would clean for 30 minutes. And no, I wasn’t wasting time or anything. Some people are just good at it, some aren’t. I am the “aren’t” it seems.

          What would I expect or want from a woman in my life now?
          Someone that pretends my jokes are funny is a nice start.
          Someone that likes to listen to the same music I do so I can share that with her. I have always been the type to prefer turing music on than a TV.
          Someone that shares interests with me. Much better to talk about something you love to do than “how was your day at work dear?”.
          Someone that would enjoy doing things separately AND doing things with me and my boys. Will NOT let any woman come between me and my boys.
          Someone that will let me play with her mommy parts is always a bonus! ]:)
          Someone that does things on her own with her friends is a must. If she doesn’t have friends, there is a reason for it. Learned that from my future ex-wife! She has many people she CALLS “friends” but from seeing her with them I wouldn’t concider ANY of them more than someone she knows and is friendly with. Yes, she WILL die cold and alone, angry and bitter. Ain’t life grand? :^O

          Good luck finding whatever it is you are looking for. Just make sure your looking in the right places for the right thing, instead of what you think is the right thing.

          My main rule, she can’t be able to kick my a$$! 😉

        • #3072991

          you better give up…

          by jck ·

          In reply to Not likely for anyone

          on suckin up to ITgirli then…sometimes she sounds like she can kick my ass (even tho I understand she’s a twig). 😀

        • #3071490

          again?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to you better give up…

          There is no way she would give me a second look, let alone move 800 miles, so there is no sucking up going on dude. I am under no dilusions about myself.

          Just because someone says something nice to someone you don’t like doesn’t mean they are sucking up. I am a nice guy, what can I say? I think I may even have said something nice to you once, would that have been sucking up?

          And I believe she wouldn’t back down from either of us, so I guess that much is true… :O

        • #3071485

          dude…

          by jck ·

          In reply to you better give up…

          it was a friggin joke…you puttin out the dinner thing from the other part…blah blah…sounds like lovey dovey crap…I was just pokin at you. Christ…it’s gotta be a full moon or something.

          I’m buying you some midol…evidently that bloating is irritating you. (see…more humour) 😀

        • #3071481

          Sorry

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to you better give up…

          You have just thrown this “suckup” thing at me a few other times when you either were not joking or I just didn’t take it as such. X-(

          I am feeling kind of bloated though, so I will take that mydol anyways…..

          I am doing to run along and “chill”.

          (dinner thing?)

        • #3071318

          dinner thing

          by jck ·

          In reply to Not likely for anyone

          somewhere in here you mentioned about a geek in Michigan buying her lunch or dinner or something…anyways…it was humour.

          And as well, I didn’t think as negatively about you being able to attract ITgirli…I guess I had more faith in you than you did yourself. But…that’s another story.

          BTW…beer works a lot better than Midol on men…have 3 or 4…and go put that EX of yours in her place in court now…ya hear? I figure that’s what’s got you wound up.

          Just don’t have the beers before court…ok?

          Do vodka…they can’t smell that!!! 😀

        • #3071278

          Jck

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to dinner thing

          That’s a myth. If you drink enough vodka, you can smell it. trust me.

        • #3071251

          vodka

          by jck ·

          In reply to dinner thing

          um…sure…if you have enough pure water, you can smell it too…it’s not truly odorless.

          However, you’d see the effects of enough vodka before you’d smell it on their breath.

          Plus if it’s a real triple distilled potato vodka, you’re less likely to smell it even in quantity because of its purity and the fact it’s not grain based like most vodka is now (even Absolut is not made from potatoes).

          Plus, I’d hope jdclyde would only do a couple shots…not go in totally bombed. 😀

          I’m the one who’d go in bombed… 😀

        • #3071243

          Oh, that

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to dinner thing

          That was months ago, and forgot all about it. When she did the “what should I do this weekend” thing.

          As far as being negative or not, I concider it “realistic”. Too many strikes. Lots of baggage in my life that she doesn’t need to add to her plate. A long ways from VA, and the job market in Michigan isn’t the greatest right now. Strike three, I’m out.

          As for the drinking before court, I don’t see that happening as I need to be on top of my game when I go in and want to give the hanging judge NO REASON to dislike me. You can bet I will be after court though. Either to celebrate or to drown my sorrows.

          getting nervious.

        • #3073255

          It depends on the people

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to its a two way street

          If one person has the “job” of taking care of the house and STILL expects the other person to come home and cook/cleen they are just lazy and out of line.

          If BOTH people have jobs outside the home THEN house chores should be evenly split.

          Why would both get jobs if you have kids? Because most people have bought into the BS that you are not “making it” unless you have a lot of “STUFF”. So people live at a higher level of debt to get the stuff, and BOTH work longer hours to make the payments. There isn’t time left to play with the stuff, not to mention who is going to raise your kids the right way if your stuff is more important than your kids?

          There is also the feminist movement (yes, very close to a bowel movement) that told women they are living hollow, meaningless lives if they don’t have a job outside of the home. I don’t understand anyone that places more value on a big house than their kids, and make sure one of the parents is there the first two years at least. Does not have to be the woman either. The one that is in a better position to provide for the family should work and the other take a few years off.

          How to be happy, want less, be grateful for what you DO have instead of lusting over the toys that someone else has.

        • #3073250

          reality is…

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to It depends on the people

          some poeple choose to work, some have to.

          in america its not as bad, in ireland its a vicious circle. rent/mortgages are so high that in order to pay the bills you need 2 incomes. there are a good portion of people paying 40-60% of thier wages to rent sh1tholes, when your have 300 euros to pay the bills and buy the food..you wanna bet the wife has to get a job.

          does it effect marriages?..enormously!!
          unfortunatly, short of the government radically changing the economics of the country, nothing will help in the short term.

        • #3073233

          Cost of living

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to reality is…

          truely is different depending on where you live.

          There are places in the US that wages are two to three times higher than what I get for the same job, but the cost of living in those areas is at least that much higher too.

          accourding to the currency converter, 300 euros is about $357.50 US. I have no idea what wages are like in Ireland, but are you refering to yourself and people at your work level or are you refering to the people in low income brackets? (just to help give me a reference point so I can understand where you are coming from please).

          When my twin boys were born, I was still a shop rat that made just over $220 a week and still managed to have the wife stay home with the boys at first. After that when she went back to work I moved to third shift so one of us would still be home at all the time. Good for the kids, bad for the marriage. Got through it, but I think during that time is when the wife decided she was going to leave me. I go to court NEXT MONDAY for my divorce.

          I also have to point out that many of the people that consider themselves “poor” still have multiple TV’s, cell phones AND a home phone, cars, and other nice things. (at least in the US) Do you see the same where your at?

          Now that I don’t have the wife living at home, many of my monthly expenses have been cut back as I don’t NEED as much as she WANTED. Costs me less, I can work less, so I can live more.

          (your from Ireland? Better not let JCK find out or he will will be out sniffing around! 😀 He has his heart set on moving there and finding a cute Irish geek! ;\ Glad to see from your profile that things are starting to take off for you. Welcome to TR! 🙂 )

        • #3071280

          costing

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          well, my initial income bracket refernce was to anybody i guess. Most jobs are in dublin, but it costs a fortune to live there. Rent on a 1 bed 300 sq foot apartment runs about 700, for a place where you only have 2 drug dealers and 10 hookers as neighbours. if you want better, your looking at 900-1000 a month. Most “office jobs” pay about 1200-1500 a month after taxes. Some statistics I’ve seen from my organisation, are that there is a high % of people paying over 60% of thier wages for a place to live. Ireland is very high cost, 2nd in Europe i think, so by the time you pay electricity, phone,buy food and pay for a bus to get to work, you could realisticly be left with 150 a month. thats not owning a car, not going out anywhere, buying clothes or shoes,or getting sick. Dr costs about 50 a visit here, different rules for medicine, you can’t get the cheaper versions, very few medicines are over the counter.what about having a kid..
          last month i shelled out over 1000 for school (this is not a private school..its a public one)(fees, supplies, books, uniform), a dr visit=50, eye test =30, glasses = 150
          Thank god we both work for decent money..as it is i’m already looking at my bank balance and wondering where it all goes and its only the 5th !!!! Its become a fact of life here that both parties work..its sad really..that mothers drop 2 month old babies into day care on the way to work..but when the husbands wages go to rent/mortage and utilities, the wifes check pays for the extras..doctors, diapers, ect..
          sometimes peopel egt themselves into thier own mess, i know..but a good portion of peole are just trying to make ends meet while having a life. marriage breakdown also affect those on the lower income brackets as well, the ones who don’t have the means to “keep up with the jones’s”

          (yes, i’m living in ireland, but am canadian..and this geek already has an irish man..but maybe i can hook JCK up with someone 🙂 )

        • #3071274

          thanks

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          oh, and thanks for the welcome 🙂
          ya, my career is coming together now. i’m a long way from a 14 year old pregant drop out aren’t I?

          ouch..that looks harsh in print..but its true so not going to deny it.

          that was the reason for my divorce..married wayyyy to young..but can’t change it..wouldn’t if i could, cause you know what? that part of my life defined who i am today. if it wasn’t for those choices i wouldn’t be here. sometimes life is rough, but maybe there is a purpose to some of it? maybe we all have our roads to travel and mistakes to make.

          how you holding up next monday closes in? you ok?

        • #3071237

          A rough week

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          The EX has MY boys this week, and as I had always spent my non-work time with my boys I am really lost on the weeks where all of a sudden they aren’t there. These off weeks are getting harder all the time. got things I could go out and do, but generally don’t. don’t want to sit in a bar drinking alone several nights a week, and I just don’t enjoy golfing nearly as much without the boys. Many of my activities and interests I got into because they were things we could do together. the all feel hollow alone.

          Adding in getting this close to court time I am really easily distracted this week. Finally had to start taking sleep aids to get my 4 to 5 hours sleep instead of the 2 or 3 I was getting.

          Oh well, enough crying in my coffee. It makes it salty and no one likes salty coffee. I will be fine.

          Thanks for asking.

        • #3057758

          JD

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          Embrace the time you have alone. It’s good to have alone time. This is something that is what it is. You can’t change it, so learn to accept it and let yourself enjoy it. It takes a while. I know I HATED giving up my son when his dad and I split. I felt lost and lonely and spent all my time waiting for him to return. Then, after some time passed, I found that I liked having my free time. Of course, I had to spend a few months feeling guilty about LIKING the free time, but once I got passed that, it was fine.

          Of course, by then, his dad pretty much stopped seeing him and I had him all the time again, which was also cool. And then he grew up and I hardly ever see him, so the whole process kind of started over. I still miss seeing him, surly though he may be, I miss talking to him and being around him. It’s hard to let go. As far as the rest of my family, I LOVE spending time with them. However, when there is the rare afternoon, and it is RARE, that I get time all to myself in my house, I LOVE it.

        • #3057746

          Just need

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          to get through this week to get the divorce monkey off my back for starters.

          From there, it is learning to live a new life with new things I would enjoy doing.

          As I said, all the activites I do involve my boys and half of them started completely as something they wanted to do and I would do it just to be doing something with them.

          After I am done in court and know what I will have to work with I will start looking for new things to do. It isn’t guilt that is stopping me from doing things, it is not knowing what to do that is stopping me right now. Well, that and trying to keep my expenses at a minimum so I can get into a new house quicker. One she CAN’T just walk into anytime she wants legally! What that isn’t tainted with so many bad times with her. One that doesn’t take two hours to mow the lawn.

        • #3069452

          One thought I had jdclyde

          by jck ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          I can’t remember how old things 1 and 2 are…

          But if they’re old enough, the court might actually ask the boys who they want to live with as part of the divorce and who gets primary/full custody. If that’s the case, you might actually get it.

          Sometimes courts actually talk to the children or have them interviewed to find out their preference if they are “of age” to make cognizant decisions for themselves.

          I think that’d be cool if you got them and she had to make court scheduled visitation trips.

          I hope that happens for you.

        • #3069445

          Good thought, jck

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          If memory serves, they’re 13. If I were a judge (who had kids) I’d certainly be inclined to consider the wishes of the kids. Let’s hope jd’s good behavior over the past year(s) during this mess yields some good karma. It would be tough though if the 2 kids had 2 different answers to where they wanted to go.

        • #3069381

          not always work out

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          that doesn’t always work..asking what they want. don’t wanna be sour grapes, but i went through all that, and my ex made my daughter feel so bad about me leaving him that she said she wanted to live with him..even after she had already wanted to live with me..anyways, long story short..its only this 7 weeks ago she came to me and said “mom, i don’t want to live with dad and every time i tell him i want to live with you, he has one of “heart attacks”” so baically, i got confirmation from her on what has been goin gon for over 5 years now..that he was influencing her all along.
          ughh..even just thinking about htat piece of sh!t makes my head hurt..don’t worry, i speak very nicely about him..and i only think bad thoughts away from the house
          she is 14 now..and only because i fought for joint custody she spends the summers with me..and it was 2 weeks before she was due to go back to canada she came to me about this. so..i contacted my solicitor and she rang her dad..it was only because he maintained the “she can live with her mom anytime she wants” facade that she could saty without him causeing holy h3ll.

          well, he;s not happy..but its not about him or me..its about the kids and whats best for them..

        • #3069373

          Shellbot

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          That is HORRIBLE. How can a parent put that kind of guilt trip on a child. I can’t imagine a young girl feeling like she has the power to keep her father ALIVE. People like this just kill me.

          My stepdaughter came to live with us the Summer she turned 16. Her stepfather was verbally abusive, called her names, threatened to kick her out of the house. He went off on her one time because she set a can of Coke on the coffee table (on a coaster) because she had no right to ‘touch his things’. She wanted to stay with her mom, but couldn’t deal with living with her stepfather any longer. I lost all respect for her mother because I cannot fathom how a parent can allow another human to mistreat their child. The comment that drove Haley away for good, was after a fight with her stepfather, he went to her mother and basically said ‘her or me’. Haley waited a while and asked her mother what she thought of that, and her mom said “well, I’m not leaving my husband.” She wouldn’t have kicked Haley out, but since she showed no loyalty to her at all, she decided it was time to go.

          When my husband called his ex to tell her that Haley wouldn’t be coming home, she had a meltdown. She accused us of ‘stealing’ her daughter. She demanded that we keep sending HER child support, (which I suspect is what she missed the most). It wasn’t pretty and I know my stepdaughter suffered, but we do the best we can do.

        • #3069328

          I have had this discussion with the boys

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          and warned them that the judge may wish to talk to them. I only see this happening if there is ANY contention when we go in the first day. Thing One has already stated he doesn’t want to go to court.

          I told them what could happen and that they could ask to live with one or the other. I then told them I thought at this point it would be a mistake as I still believe a child needs both parents. Also that the best thing they can do is NOT get put in a position to have to chose sides.

          I then made it perfectly clear I DID want them full time, but that was be being selfish and thinging of myself and not them.

          I also let them know that this can all change later on if things don’t work out with the joint.

          If the judge steps in and says I should take them though, I don’t think I would argue. But I don’t want to be the one to take them away from their mother. Sure, shes nuts and a W H O R E, but not to towards them.

          I know, I should be trying to take them full time, but is that really best for them? I think they will make that choice down the line, and I hope it would be to be with me.

          I will NOT allow the manipulation that Shel talked about to go on. I talk about being careful not to get into the “poor mom” because of this or that, or “poor dad” because of this or that. Sympathy or guilt is not a thing that should run or ruin their lives.

          Glad to hear your baby is staying home Shel! Grand news indeed!

        • #3066200

          on custody

          by jck ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          getting full custody of your kids isn’t taking them away from the EX…it’s having legal custodianship given by the court of them and making decisions on things for them until they are adults.

          Shee would not be restricted from them and would get her visitations to see them.

          Plus, I think you’d be more caring, attentive and concerned with them than her…seeing as a lot of her drive (as you’ve put it before) is to go out and “W H O R E” around at bars and stuff.

          In this case, man…I’d say…be selfish…it’s really best financially and emotionally for your kids.

        • #3070098

          it can be rough

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          ya, my ex is a real b* stard..even last week he was on the phone to her, telling her that he was so upset at her staying in ireland that he had to go on medication. useless loser. but on the good side now that she has spent a few months away from him, she is seeing is bull cr*p for what it is i think.
          she has gone through some rough times this baby of mine, but at every stage i always tried to think of her, even if it meant swallowing my pride and letting my ex hurt me.
          i kept telling myself that eventually she would see what was going on..
          up till last month i lived my life waiting for the next time i got to see her..now i race home from work to make her a nice dinner and help her with homework. she’s so beautiful and smart..i just cannot understand how her could be so horrible to her.
          my husband loves her bits..they are getting on great..
          i can only hope your situation goes smotther than mine

        • #3070088

          btw, shell

          by jck ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          They’re right when they told you I’d suck up to ya if you’re in Ireland. Was there 10 days last year and didn’t want to come home…hehehe.

          And, jdclyde doesn’t know…but, I met lots of pretty, sensible, intelligent Irish women while I was there who aren’t all caught up on themselves.

          Of course, I got folks wanting me to come to the UK too. But, I don’t go there until next February for holidays….right after I spend 4 more days in Ireland 😀

          Slan agus beannacht leat 🙂

        • #3069679

          ireland

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          ya Jck, its a nice enough place..
          kinda grows on ya like moss 🙂

          i’ll keep my eyes and ears open for any cute geeks 🙂

        • #3069667

          OH NO!

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          He got your scent! There is no escape now! Resistance if futile! :p

          Didn’t I warn you about him? People never listen to me until it is too late, and then here I am saying “I told you so”. ;\

          As for looking for “cute geeks” for him, the main thing is they need a nice server room! Nothing quite as sexy as a cluster of blade servers, don’tchaknow?

        • #3069664

          please send photo of server

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          hahhaa..need a TR version of the old “looking for woman with boat and motor, please send picture of boat” joke that jck can post
          🙂

        • #3069598

          Joke?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          “Send picture of boat” is not a joke and neither is a picture of your server cluster!

          This is serious business here! You can’t be expected to make a love connection unless your make sure people are compatable and are suppling what you will need out of a relationship! 😉

          Looks are nothing, compared to a woman that will laugh at Monty Python with you! What a woman!

        • #3069595

          great line, jd!

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          – considering you know I have the server, the boat, AND I like Monty Python!

          (should I get the love cuffs, whips, chains and chocolate body paint out on standby again?)

          And would you prefer the basque this time? Or should we just stick to the “special” nix?

          oh, look jd! Mambo’s blushing again!

          ]:)

          GG

        • #3069551

          Well Your Majesty

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          I’d settle for the “Special Nix” 😉

          After all being an Aussie I couldn’t afford to eat over in the UK what with the current exchange rate. But working IT I don’t need to eat or drink just let me loose with something different and I’m happy. :p

          Col ]:)

        • #3069543

          The Gutter Moth strikes again

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          I see that my on-going campaign to clean up the smut on this site has not yet come to full fruition. Oh well, I’ll just have to keep monitoring.

          GG, put the tools of your trade away, and let JD get to court. It wouldn’t do for the judge to see all the nasties all over him. He’s supposed to be respectable today.

        • #3069525

          thanks shell

          by jck ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          despite the antagonistic commentary from the Robertson-loving crowd there in Michigan, I don’t need a woman with servers and PCs.

          I have 2 server-grade and 6 personal use computers at my house. Have puters…will migrate. 🙂

          As for moving to Ireland…been pondering it since I came back from my holiday there. Been hoping to win a sizable lotto so finding a job there wouldn’t be the primary concern. Been looking at homes in various places so that when all my credit card debt is gone next summer, I can look to travel there for 2 weeks to find a home to invest in and possibly make my permanent residence.

          BTW, I have friends in Belfast, Dublin, Co. Kerry, Co. Tipp and Co. Limerick.

          Or dare I start saying things like…Baile Atha Cliath, Tiobradd Arann, Liumneach (sp? I’m a yank…cut me some slack…I’m tryin to learn!! 🙂 )

          Anyways…love it there…if I move there, maybe we can have a pint or tea.

          cheers…slan leat

        • #3069134

          Don ‘t worry about me Mambo

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          I am an expert of maintaining the illusion of respectability! And it must have worked, because court is done and things are loooooking goooood! 😀

          Happy dances all around!

          As for cleaning up TR, short of banning half of the Misc regulars, it will never happen. And now that I am almost single again, I don’t have to hold back anymore! ]:)

          Better get the oxygen tanks out GG, jd is going to rock your world!

        • #3069003

          your welcome jck

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          “I have 2 server-grade and 6 personal use computers at my house. Have puters…will migrate.”

          are you sure you want everyone to know this jck? I think that is the geek equivelent of having a both a Porshe AND an oversized joystick..:)
          (for you Time Gentlemen Please fans..I’m implying he has…)

          as well, you know more Irish than I do !!

        • #3068946

          Shell: on porsches, joysticks, and Irish

          by jck ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          Thanks…I didn’t know I was *that* blessed.

          Well, I have more than just computers…including the guitar I got this last weekend which is a 2001 Taylor K20CE all Hawaiian Koa guitar with custom inlays in the neck and all that good stuff. Got it for about 50% off the retail. It’s gonna be the one I start using to record some of my music with onto the digital portastudio I bought last year.

          As for having a Porsche and a big joystick…

          Umm…well proverbially…I guess ya could say that…in geek terms.

          Of course in reality, I’d never own a Porsche as they are known to break down more often than other sports cars. Plus, I just don’t like buying outrageously overpriced stuff as a status symbol. I’d definitely get either a BMW or Mercedes-Benz sports coupe instead, if I had to have a high-end performance car. (The guys at Porsche-North America I used to eat lunch and talk with would hate me for that statement. hahaha)

          So, what’s the proverbial equivalent to a guy with all those computers, 13 musical instruments (I can still play all but 2 of them fairly well), 2 A/V systems, and a love for Ireland?

          Or, should I ask?

          Anyways…I’m pricing homes in several counties in Eire. Hope to be buying something by the end of 2007 there. Not sure where though. But, I love it there. Hoping it stays as it is.

          As for speaking Irish: I know a few words and phrases and pleasantries in Irish Gaelic. I’m not even close to fluent, although I am looking to purchase this learning course so that when I’m out in Co. Donegal I can be more flexible with whom I speak if they are not a native English speaker.

        • #3068908

          Speaking Irish

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          I thought all you had to do was talk like your in an “Irish Spring” soap comercial!

          That, and watch “Far and Away” twenty times!

          Anyways, hope you find what your looking for jck, where ever you end up.

        • #3068897

          thanks

          by jck ·

          In reply to Cost of living

          jdclyde,

          might even end up in rural Ireland and just doing computer work on networks for institutes and schools and shoppes, plus selling and fixing PCs.

          I’m tired of the office thing and milling around inside a building and waiting on bureaucracy. I’d rather work at my own pace (which is usually way too fast for political and business models).

          And if I do move over and you can quit bad mouthin Democrats long enough (most American candidates of Irish descent are Democrats…bad mouthing Kerry or Kennedy wouldn’t get you smiles), you could come out and have Guinness or Smithwick’s with me at a pub

          Oh I got it…just praise Ronald Reagan…I got pics of the pub in the town his ancestors were from (I think it was Kilsheelan, but not sure).

          The pub is named “The Ronald Reagan”. Honest. in County Tipperary, I think.

          But yeah…i’d smuggle ya in and out for a beer and a tour of the Vee, Burren, Tara, etc.

          nonetheless…we’ll see where I end up in 2008…after I look at homes there and my last big planned trip which is to Australia in 9/2007.

          NOTE: I looked it up…it’s in Ballyporeen. Went through it a few times while there. Lovely little places those towns.

        • #3073198

          Hmmmm

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to It depends on the people

          Really? A bowel movement? I don’t think that anyone should be faulted for doing what they think is right for themselves. Now, male or female, if you let another person or a group dictate how you feel or what you should want, then that is just idiotic. However, women have the right to be fulfilled as much as anyone.

          I also agree with you that working to get ‘stuff’ is rather selfish. However, depending on your skill level and the job market, it may be that a family cannot survive on 1 income. I know that in my first marriage, there was no way that either of us could have stayed home.

          Now, I am fortunate enough to have gained the skill and experience to make a decent living. I can make more money than my husband, so when our son was born 7 years ago, he stayed home while I worked. And it is still this way today. He does some consulting work from home, but doesn’t make enough to sustain our family. There have been MANY days that we both wish this situation was reversed, but it just isn’t practical. It would be nice if this scenario was considered to be just as ‘normal’ as the reverse, but it isn’t. It ranges from disapproval from both sides of our family, to him feeling like he ‘should’ be the breadwinner, to intrusive and insulting (although, mostly unintentional) comments from friends or neighbors.

          Why is it if the mom stays home that it isn’t worth a mention, but if the dad stays home, there has to be some sort of explanation? At least my husband has reached the point where he doesn’t feel the need to explain that he DOES work, just not in a traditional sense.

        • #3071483

          Traditional roles

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Hmmmm

          defined long before we were born.

          Many feel that no “real man” would “live off a woman”. And I would bet that is basically the way it is looked at?

          My EX ALMOST got into GM with the relative referal program they did about 10 years ago. If that would have happened, I would have stayed home so she would be free to do this. It fell through after the third interview. (drat!)

          As far as fullfilment. I went into this in another reply to you but will add something short here anyways.

          If you have a family, (kids and all) it is a little late to be looking at the life you have chosen and just walk. This SHOULD have been thought of BEFORE the initial breeding went on.

          But we get married because of how we FEEL instead of how we THINK. People need to stop and look real hard LOGICALlY about it before making the big jump.

          And again, I admit I did a bad job of chosing a mate as now that I am older I see the character flaws she had that led her away were there all along. I just didn’t WANT to see it I guess. Doesn’t make it right and not trying to act supirior in anyway.

          I just think MANY marriages and divorces are to whimsical, and THAT is why marriage has lost much of the specialness that it once had. We are told that in this no-judgemental society that it is just peachy to do anything that feels good at the time.

          Someone pays for this, and it often is the kids who didn’t have anything to do with things going wrong.

        • #3066173

          Point taken..

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Traditional roles

          And yes, his family, mother and father both, disapprove of our lifestyle. His father does, because my husband isn’t doing what a man should do and his mother because I don’t do ‘my share’ around the house. Which to her, is all the housework, cooking and laundry.

          And I agree that it is a mistake to enter a relationship friviously, especially if children are a part of it. However, the kids could pay even more if they are subjected to a childhood with parents who hate or ignore each other.

    • #3072768

      About marriage statistics

      by tonythetiger ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      As info, I was married 18 years then wife#1 left. Three years later (two years ago) I married again, and it’s harder. Harder because we had different experiences and learned different things from them. Not that hard is bad, in fact it’s good, because things you used to take for granted (and probably contributed to the breakdown of the first marriage) you just can’t anymore… at least that’s the way I’m looking at it.

      I didn’t have the dilemma you had, because I smoke, I like women with meat on their bones, I love kids, and my partying days were over long ago 🙂

      “more than half end in divorce. ”

      True, but the majority of those divorces are from second, third, etc. marriages (if at first you don’t succeed… :)). 4 out of 5 first marriages are successful.

      Also I think the older you are when entering a marriage, the harder it is. Two young people grow up together and grow into each other. When you’re older you end up having to unlearn some old habits (don’t worry, you’ll have plenty of help).

      I agree with the risk.. though I don’t think it’s as much gender as disparity in income level that gets you screwed… but don’t worry. As soon as the right lady comes along, you’ll forget all about stuff like that 🙂

      • #3073068

        Really?

        by cp7212 ·

        In reply to About marriage statistics

        I always kinda thought that getting married later in life would increase your chances of staying together. The kids are older, you’re more situated, your brain is run by less chemicals (testosterone has gotten me into trouble enough, I welcome it’s decline, lol) and you’re not so apt to be with “the party crowd”.

        I never thought of the “more baggage” aspect. Great. Now maybe I won’t ever get married….

        • #3072938

          Let’s put it this way.

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to Really?

          If you are appropriately mature (wise) for your age, and able to examine your past and learn from your mistakes, and are fortunate to find an equally mature partner, then yes, a marriage at a later age will likely be more successful.

          But given that a failed relationship usually involves at least one person of inadequate maturity, if that person gets in a relationship again, it increases the chances that it will fail.

          In other words, it’s the immature among us who are skewing the odds.

          “I never thought of the “more baggage” aspect. Great. Now maybe I won’t ever get married….”

          I think if you view it as baggage, you’ll probably treat it that way, so maybe you shouldn’t.

        • #3071469

          I am more inclined to believe as you do

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Really?

          How many divorces end up because “we married too young”?

          When you are still in your teens, you don’t know yourself, let alone your mate. It is pure emotion and that is not enough.

          Later in life, you become more logical and will evaluate the potential mate realising they have flaws that you will not change. you know this and accept it up front.

          People that have been married and get divorced that look at THEIR part of the cause of the separation will become better people the next time around. The ones that take the “I’m a victom, oh poor me” will be the ones that get divorced 3, 4 , 5 times. What is the common factor? Them.

          Don’t turn your back on this yet. I go to court next monday for my divorce, yet I am not bitter about the idea of marriage. Just marriage to the AdulterousWhore that I was married to.

        • #3057989

          sorry so late, but

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to I am more inclined to believe as you do

          “Later in life, you become more logical”…

          That’s the hope, although sometimes it doesn’t happen.

          … “and will evaluate the potential mate realising they have flaws that you will not change. you know this and accept it up front.”

          A cynic could interpret this as “settling”, although I know you don’t mean it that way.

        • #3057963

          “settling” isn’t a bad choice of words

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to sorry so late, but

          as we realize that not all of us will end up with super models hanging on our arms, catering to our every whim.

          You realize not to place as much emphasis on the looks, even though we are all naturally drawn to beauty.

          Is there such a thing as the perfect mate? As there is no such thing as the perfect person, you will only find the perfect mate as long as your not looking for a human. (ewwww!)

          As for not everyone becoming more logical. This is clear, as there are so many Democrats running around these days! :^O

          Not to mention, some people just should not breed.

          Adunlap, I think your idea of it being harder on a second or third time around is because of a few things. Trust. If you were done wrong before, it is natural to try to protect yourself from the same from happening agian.

          Another problem, especially for someone that is done partying like you, you are sober. Much harder to meet someone that you get along with if your both sober and can actually SEE your potential mate for what they really are.

    • #3072761

      Twice so far………

      by bob in calgary ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      First wife died

      Second wife left me for our best friend.

      Still open to looking for number three, but things will be a lot different next time.

      When the right person comes along I’ll know it.

    • #3072652

      One from the Merry Widow

      by levannah44 ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      I don’t think there’d be so much divorce (and separation) these days if i) the church butted out, and ii) marriage was simply a legal tie and nothing else.

      However, apart from the religious overtones, I do think there needs to be a shake-up in marriage rituals that are in keeping with the 21st century.

      Rather than marry, with the strong possibility of having to remain together ‘forever’ — lots of people are afraid of ‘forever’ — there should be a variety of contracts, say, two, five and ten years just for starters.

      Contracts, of course, would be renewable if desired, but just as easily, could be cancelled the first time round with no regrets.

      If children were involved once any contract came up for renewal, their care and livelihood would be included in that contract.

      It’s simply that we’ve got to get rid of all this guilt and/or who was to blame business that persists in marriage breakups now.

      Marriages shouldn’t need to ‘break up’ (that’s a negative) but rather just come to the end of their contractual period (positive).

      Negative aspects spill over onto the kids of a marriage, which isn’t good, so we should be giving them something positive to remember instead.

      Of course, any kind of marriage has to be worked at, whether it’s long, short or inbetween. If it comes to that, any kind of PARTNERSHIP has to be worked at, with and without children. Signing on the dotted line is never a guarantee that everything’s going to be sunshine and roses afterwards!!

      My own marriage, as per the custom with sections of the Jewish community, was arranged for me. I was twenty-one, my husband-to-be ten years older.

      We adored one another until his death twenty-five years later. Now my daughter is in a wonderful relationship of her own, with two gorgeous children, and absolutely no plans for signing on that dotted line. As it happens, I’ve encouraged her in thinking that way, and her partner as well, who’s a great bloke.

      I’m waiting for my son to take the same step, because, while I don’t disfavour arranged marriages (like mine), it’s not for everyone. I was just damned lucky!

      I’ve now been a very merry widow for nearly thirteen years and have every intention of remaining that way. I love the life I lead, the people I work with and what I’m doing, which is why I don’t want it to change.

      I guess you could say I’m single by choice — on the distaff side!

      G

    • #3057852

      I’ll tell you what ruins a wedding….!

      by fonken monken uk ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      The f***ing photographers!!!! Would-be Hitlers for the sodding day!
      “Can I have the father and the bride…Now can I have the bride, the groom, the father, the donkey, the bridesmades, the goats….Now can I have everyone whos known the groom for more than 6 months, and the rugby team, and the drinking partners….”

      For everyone in the UK, and I dare say its the same across the globe, how many weddings have you been to where you are stood around waiting for things to get going becuase the sodding photographers busy faffing around with all the main players?
      Why’s there always a person wearing a kilt?
      Why’s there always a kid screaming in the ceremony?!
      Want a marriage to get off to a bad start? then get a bad photographer along to make your guests day a nightmare!

      Just another reason not to bother I’d say. A day thats supposed to be about 2 people and their love, and its disregarded while everyone has to stand around waiting for the couple (who are off being photographed), and the couple are too busy being photogrpahed to enjoy and celebrate what its all about. there’s something really wrong with that..I think

      • #3057779

        It is all a matter of planning

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to I’ll tell you what ruins a wedding….!

        That is why there is ALWAYS at least an hour between the wedding at the church/chaple and the reception at a hall somewhere. (At least that is how it is generally done in the US, so sorry if customs are very different in the UK.)

        This time is to allow the photos so people can look back on this day 50 years later. The photos are a MUST. It is just important to control your photographer and not the other way around. You tell them what you want and when. They work for you.

        I am glad I have my wedding pictures. Now I can photoshop the future ex-wifes face out and put in Jennifer Love Hewitt.

        • #3069990

          Went to wedding photographer school

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to It is all a matter of planning

          If the photog is a real Hitler, its because he/she has a contract with the bride and groom to deliver. It doesn’t help when through no fault of the photographer, the weather intervenes, dear Aunt Martha decides to powder her nose for half an hour and then comes back and tries to take over the process. If it was only the bride and groom it would be easy.

          I decided in the end that I loved photography too much to be a wedding photographer – I think I would have ended up in jail for homicide if I had done too many weddings. I did do a couple of friends and family weddings but thats it.

          James

        • #3069977

          OH you never experiences the real fun

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Went to wedding photographer school

          Of taking Wedding Photos.

          My brother did it for a bit and finally gave it away when he found someone throwing up in his camera case and then kicking the open case down a flight of steps. 🙂

          For some reason Blads don’t like being hosed off to get all the vomit off them and then having them all bouncing out of the open case was something that I was in fits of laughter as he described the situation latter. If you wrote comedy that would have made an excellent skit. 😉

          Luckily the vomit and all that bouncing around only affected the unexposed film as all of the exposed stuff had been removed from the backs and thrown into a container that he carried on his belt. :p

          He then started taking still life’s as they paid more and didn’t cause huge repair bills to the cameras either. When he got sick and tied of that he started working with double and triple exposures which he was doing when he died and was I’m told was considered as the best around at these silly pictures by those who should know. I still have one picture of a helicopter coming in to land on a breast one of the better pictures that I’ve ever seen and everyone loves it.

          Col ]:)

    • #3057734

      Hey, am I in the minority???

      by dmambo ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      As I read though the posts, I think that I read one from someone who is happily in his first marriage. Now, I know that I’m lucky (well, lucky AND good ]:) ), but is everyone else either separated, divorced, widowed, happily unmarried, lonely, or in a meaningful relationship with a sheep??? Are long-lasting first marriages that rare in the geek crowd?

      Most of the people I socialize with are in a similar situation as me, but an awful lot at work are into the 3rd or more marriages. I often wonder why they keep at it.

      When I was a kid, one of my big brothers told me that I was a good brother because I could take a punch. Probably the same trait that makes me a decent husband. 😀

      • #3057724

        About 3rd or more

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Hey, am I in the minority???

        Some people are just looking for an excuse to have a party.

        I have and uncle that is on his seventh marriage. He DOES throw a heck of a party! I travel across the country to attend his! Haven’t made any others that were out of state. Not driving all that way for tab beer and chicken.

        The problem is women today are evil? 😀 [i] (joking mae! Just joking!)

      • #3057606

        A minority of two??

        by levannah44 ·

        In reply to Hey, am I in the minority???

        Maybe people like you and I are in a minority, DMambo. I was very happily married for twenty-five years (see above at my post under the ‘Merry Widow’), following an arranged marriage (that’s simply my culture, nothing horrific).

        I’ve been a widow now for nearly thirteen years, I’m almost as happy now as I was during my marriage (yes, sure you miss your partner!) and I intend to remain in that blissful state until they carry me out in a box.

        I don’t want to get into anything that could spoil the memories, and although I have plenty of male friends, that’s as far as it goes.

        Happily ever after? Well, almost!

        G

        • #3069398

          It really is simple

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to A minority of two??

          It’s not at all easy, but, IMHO, it is pretty simple to live out a decent marriage.
          Rule 1: BE FAITHFUL.
          Rule 2: When faced with any type of major issue, try to view it from spouse’s perspective before taking action.
          Rule 3: If spouse’s perspective is not clear in your head, consult.
          Rule 4: Be a little romantic/thoughtful, esp. as regards “special” times (my weak point).
          Rule 5: Make an effort and pay attention to enjoy the happy times.
          Rule 6: Have a sense of humor and roll with the punches. I call this the Get Over It rule. (Wife apparently has a variable time delay set on this rule.)
          Rules 7 – 10: Continue to be faithful.

          Of course, this goes for both parties.

          Gret, I’ll bet you miss him every day and I’m glad you are enjoying this phase of your life. I’m sure that if I were in your shoes, I’d be having a hard time being alone after having what I have now. As I said, I got very lucky and I am definitely spoiled. When I use the expression “my better half”, it really is true. I tell my wife that her only real problem is that she married a dork. (Old joke, I know.)

          Happily ever after? Well, so far and for about 90% of the time!

        • #3069319

          Atta boy

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to It really is simple

          It is nice to hear that there are SOME happy endings out there.

          Others here have found a similar joy in their mates, but not until the second or third attempt.

          I hope to get it right the second time around.

          Rule 4 was always a bit of a blind spot for me. but in my case it was “esp to the everyday things”. It seems women want you to be romantic more than just on St. Valentines day? Who knew? Live and learn.

        • #3069314

          AAARRGGGHH!!!

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to Atta boy

          X-(

          GG

        • #3069262

          Simma Downa

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to AAARRGGGHH!!!

          Hey relax, you should know by now that men are dopes. And we’re happy that way. Do you think that dogs are bored when they’re left alone outside on a beautiful day because they just lay around? Hell, no! That’s what they do best. It’s the same with men. Do you think it bothers most of us that the spouse is pissed off with a plunger for the anniversary gift? Well, maybe a little, but it’s easier dealing with pissed off than with jewelery store salesmen.

          Now calm down and go back to scratching jd’s tummy.

        • #3069227

          Ah, my dear

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to AAARRGGGHH!!!

          I am admitting I WAS clueless.
          I am admitting I wasn’t perfect.
          I am admitting I was wrong.

          I didn’t understand that if someone looks good, you are suppose to say so, repeatedly, for years and years.

          I didn’t understand or see the little things, because at the time she started looking elsewhere, I was worrying about the big things. Namely how to feed four people while making $8 an hour as sole provider.

          I stated it light heartedly, but that doesn’t mean I am not taking this very seriously.

          It is much better to laugh than cry. Tough guys don’t cry…. 🙁
          I am learning from MY mistakes so I don’t repeat them.

          (I think the money strain did have a lot to do with the breakdown of this marriage.)

        • #3070244

          How to survive a marriage

          by levannah44 ·

          In reply to Ah, my dear

          I know it’s trite to say it, but the old adage about when money problems come (in at the door) love flies out the window, just may be YOUR excuse for something to blame on the break-up of your marriage, jdc.

          So, perhaps it had something to do with it, but I bet it wasn’t the sole reason. And of course, no one’s perfect and it’s quite OK to be ‘clueless’ and ‘wrong’. Everyone’s like that.

          Yes, it’s hard when you’re trying to look at the bigger picture and all she wants is for you to tell her she looks great.

          Well, I’m a female, and I’m sorry to have to say this about another female, but your ex definitely had her priorities in the WRONG order!

          If she had had enough emotional maturity, she’d have known that at that time, the bigger picture, i.e. the money problem, was a helluva lot more important than being told sweet nothings all the time by you. She was the one with the problem, not you, jdc.

          I truly wish you better luck the next time round, but please remember this: i) there’s a time and place for everything, ii) laughter’s still the best medicine (a sense of humour), and iii) never sleep on a quarrel.

          G

        • #3070194

          It is hard to know

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Ah, my dear

          I could say that the sole reason we broke up was because she fell in love with someone else and is leaving me for him.

          I am trying to see if there was something I had done that caused her to go looking for this love in the first place.

          She STILL doesn’t have emotional maturity.

          Thanks lev

        • #3060520

          Be a friend, gain a friend

          by levannah44 ·

          In reply to Ah, my dear

          Stop kicking yourself, jdc. Given the info you’ve shared with us on this forum, you were not to blame for the marriage break-down. But I’ll tell you what was.

          Her emotional immaturity. I hate to say this against other females, but it obviously bears repeating. Anyone (I guess males too if you like) who goes looking for love elsewhere once they’re in a marriage is, by definition, emotionally immature. She’s the one who’s got to grow up.

          What could you have done? I don’t know, jdc. If she wasn’t emotionally mature enough for marriage — and she wasn’t — I doubt there’s anything you could have done to make her see her responsibilities before she was ready herself.

          In her shoes, I’d have sat down to try and find a solution to the money problem as it was then — two heads are always better than one — and, whether an answer was found immediately or not, then, and only then, to thank her (compliment her) for her input.

          I can only imagine that she was so wrapped up in this other guy at the time that she was unable so see your distress over this problem. And THAT is a sure sign of emotional immaturity, I’m sorry to say.

          I’ll let you have one last hint for making a good marriage, jdc. Friendship is far more enduring than love, and I mean that romantic muck that’s always getting rammed down our throats via TV and whatever else.

          Before you say ‘I do’ next time, make absolutely certain she’s your best FRIEND — for life.

          G

        • #3071654

          jd…you were doing just fine

          by mirrormirror ·

          In reply to Ah, my dear

          jd…you should listen to Dr. Laura. She would say that you were doing your job like a real man.

          At times I wish my husband would be a little more romantic but I DO NOT expect him to constantly tell me that I look good. That is just silly.

          Is is possible that your ex was being childish in her expectations of you?

        • #3053541

          very childish

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Ah, my dear

          but that doesn’t change that I didn’t give her what she wanted/needed regardless if it was reasonable or not.

          I am not getting down on myself or beating myself up over this. Just trying to get as much positives out of this clusterfu#k as I can, and hope that makes me that much better of a partner the next time around.

          Used to listen to Dr. Laura, but she isn’t on in our area anymore. Man, it would be funny listening to her beat up on people that should know better!

        • #3070247

          No ‘bluebirds’, just happiness

          by levannah44 ·

          In reply to It really is simple

          I like your rules, Mambo, and they obviously work for you. I hope they continue to do so.

          My marriage was based on being completely honest, no matter what, never going to sleep on a quarrel (old one, that), and, while sharing interests in common (lots there), to also be as diverse as possible with our own friends and interests (a great many).

          Yes, I miss him and think of him constantly, but when I tell you I am extremely happy in this new phase of my life and single BY CHOICE and thoroughly enjoying it, you can believe it. Being so honest throughout my married life, I can’t stop now!!

          And it’s fairly evident to me you’re not a ‘dork’ or you’d never have married in the first place.

          G

    • #3069446

      i am happy in marriage

      by catfish182 ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      Dude i feel your pain. I went until i was 26 and i met her by chance. I was bartinding at the quarter horse congess (there are full horses there not quarters) and she was the stand manager there. I liked her but was so nervous the first time i came off real bad. ( i was call a A******) But i stuck with it and asked her ot marry me the first night. She said no. she said no for about 3 weeks. Finally in a minute of weakness she said yes. 10 years this year later.
      2 kids and while we are not where we want ot be money wise she is everything i need. I can be as stupid as i want and she stil loves me. I cant think of life without her. Its tricky but its out there. Honestly i dont put a lot of thought into a thing that isnt broken. I dont worry (to much) “is she really happy?” I hope she is and i do things to try to make her that way. in turn she does the same for me ( all weekend madden parties where she keeps the girls upstairs and out of the way) You have to find a person that will allow you to be you but still want you to be a better person.
      Basicly its out there dude. hang in there. it sucks when ur alone but it will pay off.

    • #3066132

      Don’t “Day and Age” me, Please

      by richardb ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      I hate that expression. I find that when I hear it, it invariably signals that someone is talking without thinking about what they are saying, or, are talking about something of which they have never bothered even basic research.
      Urrrrrrrhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

    • #3060319

      11 years

      by mlayton ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      yesterday. Every day is better. Marriage is a partnership, and once when someone asked my how you know you’ve hit true love…. 1. Don’t ask “could I see myself with this person the rest of my life?” there are a lot of people that may be true of. The real question is whether you can see yourself WITHOUT this person in the future. If the answer is no, then you have found the one that balances you. 2. Real life is not a soap opera. Don’t look for drama, huge declarations of love followed by huge betrayals and scenes of forgiveness. Love is subtle and what you want is someone who cares so much for you that they know the worst way to hurt you and would NEVER EVER use it.

    • #3060317

      If there are children…

      by mlayton ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      I have to admit, I have no knowledge of any other country than the US, but I have to add 2 cents. If you plan on “being together forever” and children are involved….either get married, or the day that child is born get yourself one heck of a will. I have a friend who died unexpectedly. His girlfriend is still now, three years later, going through paperwork to ensure their son gets the proper benefits. The state is actually in control of some of it until he turns 18, and for that privilege they are charging his account – so his actual benefits decrease, since he was not of age and she was not his legal wife. Please, when children are involved, don’t neglect the paperwork. Plan for the unexpected. Because it only adds to the grief and trauma if you don’t.

    • #3069840

      I’ve had one bad and one good marriage

      by av . ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      I’m not a guy, but here are my thoughts.

      I think I have been married my entire life. My first marriage, at 19, was a disaster. Both of us were so immature and too young. He was 21. We tried to work it out, but it was just wrong. We lasted almost 2 years.

      In the early 70’s, it was frowned upon to divorce, but I knew it was the right thing to do, so I left. My mother didn’t talk to me for a year.

      After that experience, I promised myself I would never marry another man unless I lived with him first. I didn’t care if it was unacceptable to society or the families (it wasn’t).

      I was 23 when I met my second husband. We ended up living together for 15 years and have been married for 15 years. Our relationship didn’t change after we married.

      Marriage is a journey worth taking. My advice to anyone today is to live together first. No financial ties. No pressure. You can leave when you want. You will definitely find out if they are right for you.

      Stop looking, love will find you. I dated, went to parties, etc., but I met my husband while doing the everyday errands of life.

      Forget perfect. Everyone has their problems. It all boils down to what you can live with.

      • #3069835

        As a Mere Male I have to disagree

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to I’ve had one bad and one good marriage

        It really all boils down to what we find impossible to live without, I could no more consider doing without my other half than flying to the moon in s self constructed object. 🙂

        Now if there where not only children involved everything would be Perfect! :p

        Col ]:)

        • #3069097

          Why are you a mere male?

          by av . ·

          In reply to As a Mere Male I have to disagree

          I think you have a valid point when you say we find it impossible to live without someone. That’s truely unconditional love.

          What if the person is bad for you or does bad things to you, though? Thats where you have to decide what you can live with. Even more so if you have kids.

          I don’t think everyone is lucky enough to find love to that degree in life. They may find lust, but only real love endures. It isn’t because it isn’t there, its whether a person can recognize it.

          It sounds like you have a really great relationship with your other half. Me too.

        • #3069092

          The “Mere Male” comes from one of

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Why are you a mere male?

          The Womans mags over here where they continually hold up the males for ridicule for not knowing everything there is to know about things like washing clothes and the like. To me if you want to wash clothes you just bung them in the washing machine and let it do its thing after all why did I buy it? 😉

          But “She Who Must Be Obeyed” sees things a little differently and wants to separate things out now sure I don’t put in grease covered overalls with regular cloths but as far as I’m concerned everything else is fair game. Then I’ll take whatever off the Cloths Line or out of the dryer and wear it. Again for some reason this is wrong it has to be ironed for some reason they all look the same to me. 🙂

          The same goes in the kitchen apparently you have to wash the dishes first before placing them in the dish washer well as I see it if you’re going to wash them why do you need a dishwasher? :p

          All of these so called modern conveniences seem to me to actually make more work than what they actually save needless to say I’m baned from both the kitchen and laundry. But as she insists It better the devil you know than the one that you don’t know. :^O

          Col ]:)

        • #3060032

          Now I know for sure . . .

          by av . ·

          In reply to The “Mere Male” comes from one of

          Men, the world over, all suffer from the same disease! Its called Lack-of-interest-in-the-mundane-chores-of-life-itis.

          My husband has it too. You are a lucky man, Hal, to have a wife that is very wise. I had heard of women that went with the devil that they didn’t know and their whites were never that white again, if you know what I mean (if not, ask your wife).

          In the US we have the same women’s magazines. We don’t call guys “mere males” though. We call them inflicted with the disease of slobitis. There are different strains of the disease, such as dishwasheritis and colorsranitis.

          How can you guys or as we say in New Jersey, youse guys, be so into your jobs but you can’t ace the dishwasher?

        • #3060014

          Really I don’t have a problem with the Dishwasher

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Now I know for sure . . .

          It’s just that “She Who Must Be Obeyed” doesn’t quite see things the same way that I do, Something about constantly cleaning the filter or something similar I don’t know! 😉

          But to keep her happy I keep buying Classic Mercedes for her which she loves so I’m right and then I can get away with spending as much money as I like in buying parts for them after all I’m not spending the money on myself but on her so I’m sweet. 😀

          Several years ago she used to bitterly complain about the amount of money that I spent on things like tools and parts for my Classic Racing Ducati so I sent her out to buy the tools and so forth and she never made another complaint again. That had to stop after I put her on a plane to Sydney to pickup 1 $18.00 part for a race meeting that couldn’t be delivered on time so I sent her down there to collect it. The next thing that I knew was that I got a phone call from the airline about am I willing to pay for the excess baggage which I didn’t know anything at all about as she had only flown down there to pick up one item and come straight back but I agreeded and then when I went to collect her I found her with a pile of parts that I would never be brave enough to buy and a bill for 36K. Her excuse was well you’ll need these which was right but not all at once so that’s how she got out of buying stuff for me. Now I don’t trust her to go anywhere even to pickup a parts order as I can’t afford her help. 🙁

          But I did make her happy at a Snap On van when I bought her a pair of scissors that fold up neatly about 20 years ago ever since she’s insisting that the Snap On tools are the best and that it’s false economy to buy anything else.

          Col ]:)

        • #3053449

          I guess

          by av . ·

          In reply to Really I don’t have a problem with the Dishwasher

          You can say that you are as good with the dishwasher as she is at buying auto parts for your car. Its ok.

          My husband would never trust me to buy parts for his car. He would be very, very afraid that I would do what your wife did (not just buy what you said, but buy what I thought would really fix the entire problem. It would make the trip worthwhile, afterall).

          The Mercedes is nice, but remember, Hal, you are only sweet for so long.

          We have the Snap-on-tools van here too. Theres just something about that company . . .

          I have to ask why you refer to your wife as “she who must be obeyed.” As a matter of fact, I have heard my husband speak the very same words about me. I guess there really is a collective consciousness.

          Heres my observation on a wife that has earned the title “She Who Must Be Obeyed.” Men are alot of work. As (I think) Rita Rudner put it “bears with furniture.” Its a tough job and a challenge for sure, but it can be a diamond in the end. The secret is . . . and thats what I think.

        • #3053433

          Well I refer to my other half as

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Really I don’t have a problem with the Dishwasher

          “She Who Must Be Obeyed” because I learnt a very long time ago that you never under any circumstances argue with a woman. If they tell you it is a lovely day outside and a cyclone is bearing down upon you you just agree and go out without any protection and if you get her car written off she can not complain as after all it was her who insisted that it was a “Lovely Day Out!” 😉

          Actually I get her to help me whenever I work on one of her cars so she appreciates what is required and from past experience she knows just how much some repairs are and generally speaking that the people that she pays my money to do not take as much care in the repair as I do so she likes to keep me around. :p

          Right at the moment She has 5 Classic Mercedes all needing restoration so I’m needed for some time yet and since I keep buying her cars she can not really complain as after all I’m buying her presents which she likes so I can hardly be accused of taking her for granted can I? 😉

          I found out the hard way that you never buy a woman flowers as my wife seem to think that I’ve done something wrong when I do that so I just settle for buying her cars now and that way I can buy whatever parts are needed without her complaining about the cost. While she thinks that I’m buying the cars for her there are no problems and I can buy whatever rare type of car that I like and I have to keep driving them just to make sure that they are safe for her to drive so I’m effectively buying my own play toys but getting her to think that they are for her and stopping her complaining about the cost of restoring them. It’s a Win, Win situation all the way, particularly as she already knows that I prefer Motor Bikes so she can not say a single word about me buying her cars or spare parts for that matter. I had arranged to go to an auction where there where 2 Gull Wing Door Mercedes which she loves but she found out that there where also a couple of Vincent Motor Cycles there and even though she would have loved one of the Gull Wings she insisted that I not go as she knew that I would return with a Vincent. 🙁

          The same applies to travel to the US there are just some places that I can not go there as she knows why I’m going there to buy hot up parts so she refuses to allow me to travel to these destinations. But with the Internet I still buy the bits and slip some of my Hot up parts in with a shipment of Mercedes Parts so she doesn’t pick up on my buying them and as the invoices only have part numbers and no description on them she’s none the wiser. :^O

          As I used to be involved in a Motor Racing Team several years ago she expects me to have a bulk supply of spare parts so I can buy in something and then pull it out of the stock pile fit it and she just accepts that I had it there and couldn’t find it in the mess that I have after all it’s not organised to her idea so it’s understandable that I can not find something. But actually I know exactly where everything is and it is only when she tries to help me by tiding things up that I loose things one set of gauges which could fit in the palm of your hand she put is a safe place over 29 years ago and it was so safe that I’ve never to this day seen them since but that was only a little over $1,500.00 AU worth so it was a cheap lesson for her not to touch my things. 😀

          It’s the only thing that I ever bring up when she offerer’s to help me tidy up and that is enough to make her forget the whole idea as she still feels guilty for that one, after all I only waited for 18 months to get the things and treated them very gently until I got home and she put them away safely.

          Right at the moment she is complaining that I’m taking up way too much space in the dining room and lounge room as I have about 15 computers in those two areas and the kitchen table is covered by a couple of feet of computer parts so I’ll move them all into the freshly cleaned out spare room when I can get to my Photocopier once again and within a few weeks she will be complaining that she never sees me when I’m home as I’m hiding in my dens of Iniquity again so than I’ll be able to move some more computers into the house and once again take up residence in both the dining and lounge rooms. 😀

          She unfortunately learnt last week end that I’m going to build myself a 64 BIT computer to test out new Hardware and Software which while not making her happy she at least understands that it is needed but I’m not telling her what I’m building as that will freak her out it is easier to let her believe that I’m going to use an AMD Atholon and a suitable M’Board rather than the Dual Xeon M’Board with inbuilt SCSI. After all it is a valid business expanse so there is no harm done. 🙂

          Currently I’m waiting for IBM to write off one of the 2,000 CPU Blades so in about 4 years time I’ll pickup one of those which has been devalued to almost nothing for tax purposes and install it in the spare room when I can really begin to have some real processing power instead of the small Dual & Quad units that I currently have. :^O

          I’ll even offer to put it all in the garage if I can move her Mercedes parts into the house.

          Col ]:)

        • #3068632

          Chief cook . . . etc.

          by levannah44 ·

          In reply to Now I know for sure . . .

          Yikes! There must be something wrong with me! I’m a FEMALE but I have that disease too!

          Trouble is, because I can’t afford slaves or even servants, I get to be the dishwasher, and everything else as well whether I like it or not — which I don’t!

          Didn’t they use to call that ‘chief cook and bottle-washer’ disease? In this household, it’s chronic and incurable.

          G

        • #3071768

          Actually Gret

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Chief cook . . . etc.

          Dishwashers are very good for cleaning alloy parts of cars and Motorcycles or so I’m told I have no personal experience with this. :^O

          She Who Must Be Obeyed hit the roof because the dishwasher smelt of degreaser after all I cleaned up the greasy bits first before I cleaned them sometimes you just can’t win. 🙁

          But it was a water based cleaner so it shouldn’t have done any harm and I like the taste of grease when I’m eating chips with my fingers sort of reminds me of the good times when I was rebuilding motors or transmissions at night during race meetings. You just can not beat the flavor of greasy chips and Bel-Ray oil. But She Who Must Be Obeyed insists that it is an acquired taste and she doesn’t like it one little bit. All I can say is it’s a good thing that I didn’t do it or I would still be copping it for doing something like that. 😀

          Besides my solvent cleaner gets things cleaner without the trouble and I just give She Who Must be Obeyed the dirty alloy to polish she enjoys doing it. Honestly! 🙂

          I got some Ducati parts up and they where all dirty and while I was out she polished them up to as new condition. Then when I fitted than I put my greasy mitts all over them and they needed polishing again. :p

          Col ]:)

        • #3053544

          Er, losing

          by levannah44 ·

          In reply to Chief cook . . . etc.

          I’m surprised at you, Col! No, not about the grease and that, because I’m a bit like that too (dreadfully undomesticated, me!) but about not winning!

          Don’t you know by now that the guy never wins, especially when She Who Must Be Obeyed is someone as cool and efficient as Gai.

          Face it, Col, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles! Okay??

          G

        • #3053539

          Gret She only thinks that she wins!!!!!!!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Chief cook . . . etc.

          I always give in and allow her to think that she gets what she wants. Currently we are in the mists of committing a “Clean Up” and removing all the empty boxes from the spare room and setting it up as a second computer Lab/. After 10 years I finally got around to actually pulling some cable through the place and fitting face plates. 😉

          Now she insists that she wants her lounge and Dining room back. :^O

          Well it’s not going to happen mainly because I need a bigger house for all my hardware but I’ll dutifully fill that spare room with computers and the like and have things set up as required so she’ll be happy until she realises again that she never sees me so she’ll complain about this “AGAIN and I’ll move some of the less important hardware back out to the Dining Room and Lounge just to keep her happy. 😀

          Actually I didn’t do the dishwasher thing my son did it without me telling him to but I wore the blame for that because her darling little son would never do anything like that without being encouraged. 😉

          Of course she’s since changed her mind about just how sweet her son is but I still get the blame for those alloy bits getting into the dishwasher. Actually what really happened was that the lazy little sod didn’t want to polish then so he bunged then into the dish washer in an attempt to get them clean and not have to polish them up. Unfortunately the thing was still running when she returned and I got the blame. 🙁

          Col ]:)

        • #3071076

          Pot calling kettle . . .

          by levannah44 ·

          In reply to Chief cook . . . etc.

          Well Col, I HATE to have to say this, but if SWMBO’s sweet little son is just a tad on the LAZY side, now who do you think he must’ve inherited that aspect of his work ethic from?

          We won’t mention any names, of course, but you can jump up and down and I’ll point, and I think we could just find out who the real culprit is, huh??

          G

        • #3071167

          Well that’s a new one

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Chief cook . . . etc.

          I’ve never ever had someone call me lazy. A Perfectionist, A Mongrel to work for, A Know All Bar-steward and things like that but never LAZY! :p

          Granted I call myself that but I do it properly in the first place so I don’t have to do it again from that prospective I’m extremely lazy. But at the time of the Dishwasher incident I had just returned from a state wide trip I’d only been away for 6 weeks and my own dogs bailed me up and tried to stop me entering the place until they realised who I was and then they where all over me. :^O

          The biggest complaint that SWMBO had back in those years was that she never saw me as I was constantly away on work trips and I didn’t know in the morning where I would be that night. I used to keep a packed suitcase in my workshop and be on constant call. She would return home and find a message on the answering machine telling her that I wouldn’t be home that night because I was in XYZ for a few days and could she pack me another bag so I had something ready for when I returned.

          Actually I would never have even suggested using the dishwasher for those parts as they had a mirror finish on them so the detergent would slightly pit them and it would require much more elbow grease to get them cleaned up properly. 😀

          Anyway I’ve been so good lately and while the spare room is still unfinished I’ve been positively domestic and removed all the shrubs and trees from one part of the front yard. It’s only taken 5 days to get to the point where it actually looks almost clean although I could spend another 6 months cutting out the roots. But I’ll be back to the computers tomorrow as my hands are all covered in blisters and I can not carry anything like a dinner plate so I’ll need a break for a while to get sort of fit again and then I can start all over again. :p

          I might even get a shower tonight as SWMBO has bunged a ladder into the bathroom and refuses to move it so no one can get in there for a shower or bath except her pet possum who is out to get her now as she was responsible for removing one of it’s favourite trees, man is she in trouble. :^O

          Anyway when my hands get somewhat better I’ll plant some concrete seeds and watch them grow in the area that I’ve just cleaned up that should make my life much easier. 😀

          Col ]:)

        • #3060701

          How to be lazy so no-one knows

          by levannah44 ·

          In reply to Chief cook . . . etc.

          Excuses, excuses, Col! Gees you guys, what are you trying to PROVE??

          Yes, I’m well aware you’re perfect, Col, because I am too, but in tainting your son with the brush of LAZINESS — Bri used to call it ‘laziety’, which of course isn’t a word, but he liked to take the micky out of English all the time — I was merely basing my words on what his father called himself, now wasn’t I???

          Say to SWMBO — and your son too, just for good measure — that you have ‘great laziety’ rather than you are lazy next time, and then no-one will understand you!!! Works every time.

          G

    • #3071672

      Marriage is good

      by mirrormirror ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      When I was going to college I had a job as a waitress and had a little money but did not have a car. One of my favorite bands at the time was coming to a local venue so I bought 2 tickets to the concert. I had a boyfriend but was not too enthralled with him and decided that I wanted a change. I went back to the dorm and got the phone number of the cute guy who worked in the office. I called hime, he came to meet me and I asked him out. I paid for everything on that date. I figured that I should do the same as if a guy had asked me out. It was only fair. We had a blast. Needless to say, we have been together ever since.

      21 years together on 10/20. I have never regretted it. We have had our low points. But, I thank God everyday that he is willing to put up with me. He is my best friend. I can be ME with him. And, I let him be himself with me. We are not perfect. But, we have realistic expectations of each other. I do not desire any other men. He has never chated on me. I trust him with everything. I would give my life for him.

      Find your best friend and you will have found your mate.

      • #3053542

        Real love

        by levannah44 ·

        In reply to Marriage is good

        Bravo, DL05! I fully agree with you. Love as it’s thrust at us on TV and in films is really quite superficial and terribly artificial.

        But if your life partner is your best friend FIRST, then real love (not the telly kind) is sure to follow.

        This is the enduring kind of love/friendship generally NOT talked about in films or books because it’s rather hum-drum compared to the rosy specs sexual love of make-believe, which often doesn’t survive even the first anniversary.

        I was married twenty-five years until my partner died, and while love was always there, we were friends, first and foremost, from go to whoa.

        I sincerely hope you have a very long and happy marriage, DL05, and that you always remain best friends.

        G

    • #3053555

      I’m happily married…

      by jessie ·

      In reply to marriage in this day and age

      but I’m not a guy, so maybe I don’t count. My husband was actually 31 and divorced, while I was 22 and single when we met. So, maybe you just need to take a few college courses and find yourself a nice single girl there. Take some women’s studies courses, you may or may not meet any great women in those classes, but if nothing else, it will give you great material for when you do find “the one”. 😀

      • #3053536

        OH rubbish Jessie!!!!!!!!!!!

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to I’m happily married…

        What are you trying to do to this poor guy totally screw him up? 😉

        “Womans Study Courses” he’ll be in therapy for the rest of his life with no chance of a recovery. 🙂

        Anyway I saw a news story on some woman in the US who has 15 children and is planing on continuing the breading program so you have a lot of catching up to do so get busy! Remember Bare Foot & Pregnant is the only way to keep a woman. It also helps if she can cook but that’s no where near as important. :p

        Anyway how are you going I haven’t seen you around here for quite a while and I certainly have not seen the Newest TR Member contributing to any discussions yet either. :^O

        I hope you are not abusing her by restricting her computer and Internet privileges. 🙁

        Col ]:)

        • #3057896

          Cut ’em, Burned ’em, and fed ’em to the cat!

          by jessie ·

          In reply to OH rubbish Jessie!!!!!!!!!!!

          I will NOT be working my way towards 15 (or 16) children!!! Can’t do it, NO WAY! I am COUNTING down the YEARS until I get to sleep in on a Saturday morning!!!

          I’ve not been around much cuz… no job to be bored at work and hang out on TR. Lil miss thang has decided she doesn’t like nursing, but she hates formula, so I spend most of my time either pumpiing milk for her or feeding her a bottle of expressed milk… gee it’s lots of fun I tell ya!

          I do start a new job on Wednesday… a contract position with no possibility of benefits, for a company that loves to lay people off… but it’s the only offer I’ve had in three months and I hear it’s easier to find a job when you’ve GOT a job… so I accepted… and I’ll still be looking.

        • #3072467

          Jessie I hate to state to obvious but

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Cut ’em, Burned ’em, and fed ’em to the cat!

          That only prevents him from getting you pregnant you’ll have to start worrying when he returns home with a metal can full of Liquid Nitrogen and straws in it. :^O

          AI is here to stay. :p

          Sorry to hear about the job but these things are put in our way so that we can overcome them and grow from the experience. Things like this always make us better people or so people keep telling me personally I’m ready for the padded cell but I’m constantly told that because I want it I must realise that I need help so I don’t qualify. 🙁

          Col ]:)

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