Discussion Locked

MS Word design flaw

0 helpful
12 replies
Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.
What do you think about the recent discovery of a design flaw in Word 97, 2000, and 2002, as discussed in the most recent Internet Security Focus newsletter?

12 replies

by barry.wilson

If this was an automobile safety fault the manufacture i.e. Microsoft would be forced to fix it even if it was older model. Since its such a fundermental flaw Microsoft should be forced to issue a fix for it in MS Word 97 as well as 2000 and XP.

by kelliott3

Word 97 is 5 years old. To me, that is like a 15-30 year-old car. Auto manufacturers stop making parts after 10 years. So, perhaps Microsoft is somewhat justified. There has to be a limit to these things.

OTOH, third-parties still make a lot of parts for '57 Chevys. When the design is "open-enough" to allow third-party vendors to pick up the slack, you can keep driving.

The choice is ours - continue to upgrade our software on a semi-regular basis (replace the car at 10) or go open-source (+10 years-old is ok as long as it is popular enough to get third-party parts, or fix it yourself).

My network is mostly NT4 and Office 2K. But I see I have a decision on the horizion as my system ages. Would there be less pain to upgrade, stay or switch to open source?

The trick for Microsoft is to keep the pain of an upgrade well below the pain of switching. While they would prefer you to upgrade, they be careful to prevent users of older (non-supported) apps from switching to open source. Once they go, it's really tough to get them back. Microsoft's current policy not to rix the Word "issue" will likely cause a certain percentage of customers to switch to open source. These people become "salesmen" for open source. It it reaches critical mass, watch out.

My suggestion for Microsoft - either fix the problem, offer a way to seal off the feature, or pass the source-code to a third-party who could develop the fix for a fee. I need the problem fixed and need a vendor committed to on-going support, even if it's for a fee. While Microsoft is not unreasonable to drop support for older applications, I believe it is a marketing mistake.

Wonder what would happen if Microsoft gave away all their products, but charged for patches and support...

by uncannie1

I wondered why documents that had nothing to do with the docoment sent were being viewed by others, and why a simple document could be so much bigger in an email than it was on the system. Now I see why links within word documents can cause them togrow from 565kb to 20MB without your having any idea why.... Be careful when you put links into documents in Word 97... they grow like weeds! Microsoft needs to FIX this problem!

by gmkenney

Microsoft's response to this issue is comparable to Microsoft's behavior recently now that the heat seems to be off. For example, when I recently updated IE on my personal machine at home (after all, IE is the W98 GUI!), it decided to convert all of my associations to Netscape to IE without asking permission.

Repairing that action manually is tedious and close to impossible. Reinstalling Netscape 7.0 and responding positively to its on-screen prompt about setting associations did resolve the issue. But resolving the issue misses the point: there should not have been an issue in the first place.

If there were to be a judicial remedy to Microsoft arrogance and customer abuse in the form of restructuring, I would prefer to see one ofthese options:
1. Either removing the need for a Browser GUI or separating the OS from the GUI so that any browser could become a GUI.
2. Strict adherence to WWW standards; i.e. Javascript (which hands control of your desktop to whatever website you contact) must go.
3. Divestiture into 3 entitities: OS, NOS, and applications.

Back to the original point: Word 97 is a rich, highly functional application. I see no reason, other than Microsoft greed, to abandon it. I see no reason why Microsoft, who has generated millions and possibly billions from this one application over the past five years cannot be required by an agency like the FTC to support it.

Jerry

by michaelam

I can only say that I agree with most of 'Byte Me'.

Microsoft seems to be back to 'status quo' - take thy money and run. Service == n/a (not applicable - it's a feature, not a bug; not availaible - You need to update to our current version for service/support).

by sedge

It looks to me as though Microsoft is correcting the problem. It is being corrected through a new version of the software. If every problem in every piece of software were to be corrected at no expense to the consumer, new versions would be fewer and innovation would be hampered because the R&D budget would be reduced. Critical flaws are corrected, but not necessarily those that cause frustration to a relatively small portion of teh consumer base.

Even auto manufacturers don't fix problems forever. They build a new model. True, they allow a longer period for design flaws to be corrected, but then, their design flaws can cause loss of life. Microsoft's design flaw can cause a lot of aggravation for a small percentage of their users, butwon't kill people. New models of autos are enhancements and features, rarely is there is significant breakthrough of new technology like there is in our business. This is a terrible analogy.

I have problems with Microsoft like everyone else, but I try to temper it with some common sense. The main reason people like to fry Microsoft is that they're big and they do what they do better then anyone else. Sun was outmanuvered and brought a lawsuit using their friends in Washnington as a lever to try and gain market advantage. Only because they weren't good enough to do it through the market. That is what is really unfair. Does Microsoft have problems with software? You bet. But guess what? So does everyone else. They just don't make the news.

by tomji

Your logic is flawed...Security is just as important as safety.

If customers complain, which ALL Word97 users should do, then it is up to the software company to accomidate the customer. This has been standard policy for the last 30 years.

Nosoftware company, before Microsoft, has ever left a critical issue unresolved. Doing this forces the customer to spend money for a new version of a program, update internal programs, go through a test phase and add many updates to get the exposure resolved, only to create new ones. Even if the company did not "fix" every problem in the program, they at least patched the critical error. I know because I have worked on fixes when only 2 customers in the world had a problem while running a particular combination of applications.

Microsoft should keep the customer happy. Otherwise, there will be no more customer.

by edtrimm

How long has this problem been known? And why is it only just being found -- what five years later?

Yes this tip was very helpful....

by sdss

Both the problem and response to the problem are typical of Micro$oft and Windoze. I support nearly 1200 Windoze workstations on Novell or Linux servers. I'm in the process of switching nearly ALL the workstations to either Lindows 2.0 or SuSE 8.0. In the interem, most clients are switching from Micro$oft Office to OpenOffice or paying the nominal fee to go with StarOffice. I've had it with Micro$oft and do not intend to ever use another Micro$oft product nor recommend the use of any. I'm the first to admit that Linux/Unix operating systems and their products are not problem free. However, the support from the user community is both friendlier AND faster than anything Micro$oft has ever offered. I doubt that will ever change which is why I'm changing. My goal and mantra is "Micro$oft Free by 2003!"

by bryceverdier

Staroffice, OpenOffice, Hancom Office. These are completely compatible alternatives to MSoffice.Hell, if you want just an alternative to Word, you can use Abiword.

The reason Y MS gets away with policies like this is because they are the 900lb gorilla. Thus their pretty hard to push around.But everytime someone moves to a different office suite the gorilla goes on a diet. Once its no longer 900lbs, you'll see bugs like this disappear, and bad policies( not supporting word 97, the freaken software isn't even 6 years old!) disappear.

by fdickey

Get real people. Word 97, Windows 95 and in another year, I'd say Windows 98 are legacy programs that Microsoft should have every right to deny support on. These are not cars. Cars are hardware which is a completely different thing. Software is upgraded to provide additional features AND enhancements to existing features such as additional security. People can't expect to buy an application and 5 or 10 years later expect it to work with new hardware or be just as secure as the latest version of that application. That's what upgrades are for. :-)

by unimerpo

Imagine a room at MS, full of people devoted to finding ways to force users to upgrade. Such as inserting security flaws, to be made public when vendor thinks customers should pay vendor more money to buy a newer WORD without the security flaw. Then, refuse to fix the flaw in old WORD because that would let customers continue using already paid for WORD. One telephone company used to have a room full of people, all working on ways to get PUC to permit charging more for telephone services. One comm employee bragged of inserting bugs into a military switch for 'job security'. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man?

This discussion is closed to new replies.