No Smokers

Are you trying to argue that you are healthier to be smoking? You'd have a hard time arguing that scientifically. As to social interaction - there are some pretty funny commercials about that right now.

Problems you have in quitting are temporary. Your blood pressure, anxiety etc. as a non smoker should be lower than you as a smoker, even though it will perhaps spike a bit during withdrawl.

And in the vast majority of cases, after a year or two of non-smoking has past, ex-smokers are almost as healthy as those who never smoked.

Did you know by the way that smoking considerably increases impotence in men - still wanna smoke?

James

Me or the bosses?

I agree with your thinking that the bosses think that they own us, but as far as I'm concerned, they don't own me.

I can work other places just as easily as I work here.

There's nothing that I can't do, same as you or anyone else. It's just a matter if we want to or not. If a boss tries to pull some crap like that, screw them and do something else.

:)

Mrafrohead

used to shoot TVs.

I would consider it VERY LIKELY that many computers/monitors have suffered the same fate.

I'll tell you, it was one of the absolute HARDEST things I've ever done. Until I actually quit. I look back on it now, and it really wasn't that hard.

It's really just getting past the mental part of it.

I have read that "Wellbutrin" works very well in helping people quit.

Something to consider if you really can't do it on your own. I believe in you though, and I believe that if you TRULY want to quit, you will.

As for the discrimination suits, bring them on. If it's MY company, it's MY rules, that's that. Those crybabies can just suck it. :) I'm not having anyone tell me how I'm going to run my company.

I like to consider myself a decent tech. At least that's what I'm told quite often. I'm actually told I'm too humble in my abilities.

And I don't smoke.

I think that it should be illegal unless you brought enough to share with everyone... ;p

Kinda like gum when you were in elementary school.

;p

/me holds my head in shame... ;p

Please read the next posting, as this was accidently sent before completion.

I also believe that moderate use of relaxing agents (including smoking) MAY be good for you in the long run.

Stress is the major killer today, and I am strongly inclined to think that it is a major cause of some types of cancer.

We can go back as far as Aristotle and the Buddha and follow the Middle Way -- avoidance of extremes.

HOWEVER the real problem relating to smoking is that young people start just to be "cool" or accepted by their peers. Can any former smoker remember their first cigarette? "Cough! Cough! Splutter, Splutter ! Yuk I think I am going to throw up."

About 30 years ago the Rev Ted Noffs of the Wayside Chapel, Sydney, founded the "Life Education" program. He was motivated to this after "burying" about 150 young people who had died of drung overdoses.

HOWEVER the program was all about preventive drug eduction. It teaches young children two things -- how their body functions and to have a respect for their body, and more importantly how to resist peer group pressure regarding taking any kind of drugs, including and especially cigarettes.

This program has been so popular that ALL primary school children in Australia get a chance to go through the program, and there are centres in many countries around the world.

Do a Google search for "life education centres" and you will see just how widely this program has spread.

I'm in AU so it is the middle of the night here so what does that make me? :(

Col :D

And funnily enough that is exactly what I did well I've done it many times now just walk away smiling.

The one I really loved was when I worked for IBM all those years ago now and I was punished for repairing mainframe boards apparently the "Powers that Be" didn't like the fact that I had a stock of -60 of the things or maybe it was the ones that I fixed didn't break again anyway I was sent to purgatory as the tech for a fuel injection subsidiary who supplied fuel injection equipment to all the AU race teams. Apparently the Electronic Engineers hated this position as they had to attend race meetings on the weekends durring the season and where on call all the time at least durring the season. What they forgot about me was that I had started out building Race Cars from the ground up so instead of punishment it was a reward for me and I got to mix with all the old friends who treated me as an honored guest. After 3 years they eventually put their foot down and demanded that I return to working with those Main Frames so I just walked away straight into one of the race teams then they had to contend with all the others crying foul because the team that I joined had an unfair advantage.

But I did love the look on my immediate boss face when he realized exactly what the accountants had done. I believe quite a few words where said back at head office about not looking up education or previous employment details when handing out punishment to people like me.

But I was only attempting to keep my customers happy and more to the point working after all they had spent so much money on these things and there was a 6 month waiting time for replacement parts. It is kind of hard or at least I find it that way to have tell someone that they are going to be loosing a large portion of their processing power for such a long time. Maybe that is why I'm a tech and not a salesperson. But now I run my own business I can do as I please and for some strange reason I'm selling more new computers now that ever before and I'm enjoying it.

Col :D

But what is next?

I love to ride big fast motorcycles so should I be considered as a "High Risk Worker?"

The companies that I have worked for have a right to my time while they are paying me but they do not own me body and soul I have a life away {or at least I used to} from work and I believe that people should be able to do whatever they like. Take skydiving for instance to me jumping out of a perfectly good airplane is stupid but I do have friends who partake in this activity and at least one only works to pay for all the jumps he can make. He's represented his country at international competitions and to him work was only a means to an end.

Granted he has now stopped this activity but only after his wife who he meet skydiving got pregnant and they decided that they sought of had a responsibility to the child.

Where is the line drawn? Do you think it acceptable to have genetic testing before you can even be considered for a job?

Col

:) I gotta admit, that'd be pretty dangerous.

I am a licenced mechanic, I understand drinking in a safe yet quickly dangerous environment.

When I was in my apprenticeship as a machinist, I watched a guy lose half his hair in a lathe, while stoned.

I watched a guy blow half his ass of because he was a welder and carried a Bic lighter in his pocket, after a liquid lunch, wouldn't have been that stupid if he had his senses about him.

I can understand your point, it is for workplace safety. In the case of an OFFICE building stopping people from being smokers OFF HOURS, that one just bows my mind.

As i said before, what's next...body fat tests for obesity that may result in an early heart attack and place your company's precious insurance policy at risk of actually being used? Heaven forbid!

They have all these "benefits" but they will curb your own habits in order to make sure the benefits aren't used?

Why Canada has decriminalized small amounts (though replacing criminal charges with fines WAY more harmful that a possesion record).

There IS enough to go around, a few times.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

I just read backwards in the thread, assuming that if you were talking about smell and not enough to go around, you weren't talking about popcorn.

Now I fear I may have read that wrong! You prbably WERE talking about popcorn! :D

What would that make you?

tired?

Pregancy is a fun one.
If an employee becomes pregant, by law an employer must hold her employment open.
If her position is filled, or a restructured out of the business they must offer her an equivalent position.
If they cannot/do not do this they will be prosecuted or must pay her off with a redundancy package which she does not have to accept.

Also now under EU law, her spouse can claim paternity leave and again his job is held open. Bloody socialists eh ?

But that's okay... ;p

Believe me, I dont' think I'm the brightest bulb in the box. Far from it.

As a matter of fact, the more I learn, the more I learn I really don't know that much and have a L_O_N_G way to go... ;p

I just have a wierd ability with hardware. Maybe it's luck I don't know. But for some reason I'm very good at fixing it. Software takes more work. But I can always figure out a problem if I really want to.

As I believe anyone can, because if I can do it, so can anyone else.

I don't like to gloat, I'm just being honest in here right now. Normally you won't get this out of me... ;p

Thanks Colin... you speak my language. :)

Yesterday I got a call from a very close friend and was told he had died. Apparently he had a massive heart attach and was dead before he hit the ground. Unexpected, shocking and a lot of other thoughts rushed through my head until I remembered him telling me about what hid Doctor was getting him to do.

He stopped smoking almost stopped drinking only the occasional beer now and again and after a 24 month medically supervised detox program he was pronounced as fit as possible for a man his age 52. Within 6 days he was dead, now his Doctor had told him that if he didn't stop smoking & drinking he would be dead within 10 years.

Maybe it's just me but after going through all the crap and missing all of his pleasures in life to live for 6 days seems a bit pointless to me, if it was me I'd continue smoking & drinking at least that way I would have enjoyed myself before checking out. This guy was told his heart was undamaged and that was not a problem he didn't even have high blood pressure none of the tell tale sings that should have been there because he was a heavy smoker. Personally I think his body was just getting back at him for stopping all of its enjoyment but whatever happened it wasn't worth what he went through to become healthy. :(

Col

To be tired you must need sleep and I do not! :(

Actually I've just had MS on the phone asking for feedback on some issues and the girl couldn't understand my description of my position here which is "Alleged Boss and Official Scape Goat" I had to explain it to her and then she understood and even thought it made sense. Now that is scary isn't it? :)

Col :D

Everybody will die of something eventually. If that person happened to smoke, then whatever they died of will be labeled a "Smoking Related Illness" by the whackos. (Yep, the poor guy... wife made him go outside to smoke his pipe, and wouldn't you know, he was crossing the street, paused halfway across to light his pipe, and was narrowly missed by a car that ran the light. But when he got to the other side to sit on the bus stop bench to smoke, a truck went out of control, jumped the curb, and and killed him. So sad... another smoking related death)

... I'd like to know is: Why are there (admittedly few) people around in their 90's or 100's who smoked for most of their lives?

NO NO NO. this is why I was against the Clinton healthcare plan. "We pay for your health care, that gives us the right to regulate anything about your life. Make them pay the priemum for health care, ok. Breathalyzer tests!!! AAAQAARRRRRRCCCCHHYHHHHH for lack of expressions to delicate for your sister's (&my) ears.

Nuff said... he had a massive attack in detox.

Sorry to hear that Colin...

Chris

Did you ever smell those Candy store Kiosks in the mall when they're brewing up some mad popcorn. It stinks. For some reason, it reminds me of processsed ham and highschool biology labs. Yuck. :)

My grandmother died of old age at 98 in 1991. She had dementia. Her brain started shutting down. She didn't know who anyone was, but she knew she wanted her "damned Lucky Strikes" There was nothing wrong with her heart or lungs. She lived her entire life without running water or even an indoor bathroom. She never learned to drive or owned a car.

We know that medical technology has provided longer life for a lot of people who, frankly, wouldn't have lived more than a few days or weeks out of the womb 50 or 100 years ago.

I submit that these people have diluted the gene pool to the point that these diseases have become more prevalent. It's a big joke when you think about it. The medical community has created its own customers!

There are people who never get cancer or heart disease or high blood pressure or diabetes, with little matter how they live or what their health choices are. Until the medical community can explain this, it will be kinda difficult logically to believe them when they say X causes Y. There's a reason they call it "Practicing Medicine".

Maybe smokers will save social security :^)

So when they're having difficulty breathing, they blame what they see.

In fact the coffee is probably worse. I do two, sometimes 3 pots a day.

But hate when the hulls get between tooth and gum.

two groups of people who have a higher than average incidence of attention deficit disorder. Smokers and IT people :^)

This is aeally a reply to mrafrohead

It's called "The Touch". You either got it, or you have to spend a lot of money learning it, but it's kinda like auto body work, or painting (pictures). There's only so much that can be taught.

They've added some rules here that, if you refuse overtime, or are not available, for so many occurences, you can be reprimanded.

While I agree that this is a slippery slope, I, a non smoker, get angry when I see the loss of productivity due to smoking.

I have a co-worker that goes out each hour for a smoke. Because of the time it takes to get out of the building, smoke, go through security to get back in, and get to the office, he uses between 10 and 20 minutes each hour. At the end of his 8 hours, he goes home.

I, who don't smoke, work 55-60 minutes in an hour.

At the end of the day, I have worked 7 hours 25 minutes (figure 55 minutes *7 hours). He has worked 6 hours 50 minutes (figure 10 minute {very conservative} for each butt).

This doesn't seem like much 45 minutes/day. Until you add it up.

Our breaks are not regulated, we are adults. In the end, however, I realize that he makes more money than I do because his actual money earned for actual time worked is greater.

The answer is to have regulated breaks, but nobody really wants that. I just see that my employeer is paying this person to be non productive. That is not fair either.

Supposing the employer has a right to engage in intrapersonal enfringements, the right can be regarded as a priviledge so long as the employee continues employment; perilously, should former or soon to be former employers continue in their exercises, we shouldn't bother with passports or shooting ranges, figuratively speaking of course.

BrianS

We can't smoke in bars, restaurants, and generally any public where it was once allowed.

They have even gotten rid of the designated rooms. It has worked to our advantage though, as most restaurants and bars in town have wicked patio areas now. It doesn't help much in -30 celcius weather though. Oh well... even though I smoke, the smoke used to bother me a bit.

Did you read the post titled "fire the fatties?" I was thinking about something else there. :) I guess he was talking about obesity.

It must be a Canadian thing!!!

This sounds like a good solution.

The main objection I have to working with smokers is the smell when I have to be near them, and walking in/out of the building -- and the cigarette butts.

I think companies should be able to hire who they want -- it's their business afterall-- but at the same time it's a little creepy to think they're basing a decision on a personal habit that is LEGAL.

If it turns out it DOES cost the company money in terms of sick time and health insurance, I would take that into consideration.

I've found this same thing to be true.

Plus, when you are having some sort of problem, the five minutes it takes to go outside, talk to your IT comrades, away from the keyboard, makes you less punchy. As in, try this, and that, and this. You actually get the time to think about the problem, possible causes, solutions, etc. I've brought back entire mission systems because of the cigarette factor... Then when its up, time for another, to reflect on what happend, what worked, what didn't, etc. I have a much better working relationship with fellow smokers than I do with non-smokers, you learn alot more about different areas as well...

We had another stress reliever in the office, the sledgehammer.

Along with boxes of useless hard drives, it makes for a very fulfilling, suitable destruction method.

SSA (Social Security Adminiatration) came out with a pronouncement a few years ago about the Cigarette lawsuit settlement. Based on HHS (Health & Human Services) analysis of expected smoking trends after the settlement due to the expected increases in cigarette prices, SSA said that the SS Trust funds would go bust sooner than expected due to the longer lifetimes of retirees who would have quit. Negative cash flow by 2013, bankrupt by 2029. (Latest numbers are 2018 & 2042.) Of course, these expectations are highly speculative.