Community archive

Ask something
Discussion Locked

Osama bin Laden 'surrounded'

0 helpful
26 replies

by maxwell edison

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

.
Bin Laden 'surrounded'

February 22, 2004

A BRITISH Sunday newspaper is claiming Osama bin Laden has been found and is surrounded by US special forces in an area of land bordering north-west Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The Sunday Express, known for its sometimes colourful scoops, claims the al-Qaeda leader has been "sighted" for the first time since 2001 and is being monitored by satellite.

The paper claims he is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta. The region is said to be peopled with bin Laden supporters and the terrorist leader is estimated to also have 50 of his fanatical bodyguards with him.

The claim is attributed to "a well-placed intelligence source" in Washington, who is quoted as saying: "He (bin Laden) is boxed in."

The paper says the hostile terrain makes an all-out conventional military assault impossible. The plan to capture him would depend on a "grab-him-and-go" style operation.

"US helicopters already sited on the Afghanistan border will swoop in to extricate him," the newspaper says. It claims bin Laden and his men "sleep in caves or out in the open. The area is swept by fierce snow storms howling down from the 10,000ft-high mountain peaks. Donkeys are the only transport."

The special forces are "absolutely confident" there is no escape for bin Laden, and are awaiting the order to go in and get him.

"The timing of that order will ultimately depend on President Bush," the paper says. "Capturing bin Laden will certainly be a huge help for him as he gets ready for the election."

The article says bin Laden's movements are monitored by a National Security Agency satellite.

On Thursday last week, General Richard Myers, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, said America had been engaged in "intense" efforts to capture bin Laden, who was believed to be hiding in the border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

But he insisted that the focus of the search had not narrowed for months.

The Sunday Telegraph

----------

It's only a matter of time.

Way to go U.S. special forces.

26 replies

by road-dog

But I'll believe it when we have his murderous ass in the back of a UH-60 on his way to hell via Guantanamo.

He should face American Justice, not a UN tribunal. After his hanging, his corpse should be fed to pigs.

by oz_media

As this man is the one responsible for 911 and rejoiced over it, just kill him. Now THAT I would stand up for. They could play it as an infomercial on Taliban TV as a constant reminder of what happens when you attack a country.

by jardinier

I would recommend that after his trial, and assuming that he is convicted, he should receive a lifetime sentence, not concurrent, for each of the 3,000 people killed.

I don't know what corporal punishments are allowable under US law, but if possible he should be flogged in a public place, with the filming of this flogging then circulated around the world.

He should be kept in solitary confinement for the rest of his natural life, so that he may have time to reflect on the dreadful deeds for which he is responsible.

by maxwell edison

.
....before they're hatched, so to speak, but I though it was promising news.

I've always thought that he was hiding between the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and that special forces and CIA were on his trail.

I agree. Bring him to the U.S. to stand trial for 3,000 counts of murder.

by oz_media

I did try to search the web for The Sunday Express and The Sunday Telegraoh but they weren't providing the 22nd's news online, only the 21st.

Did you get a copy of it or was it on the radio or something?

by onbliss

...just as the elections fever heats up in US. That's what me thinks. In the nick of the time :-)))

by jardinier

I have been surmising that something like this, or, heaven forbid, a major terrorist attack on US soil, will ensure that Bush is re-elected.

Our current Prime Minister, John Howard, scraped into victory in the November 2001 election soley because of the timely (for him) 9/11, and a flood of illegal boat people coming to Australia ( mostly from poverty-stricken Afghanistan or Pakistan).

He won the election on a campaign of fear and it was quite alarming to me to find that racism and xenophobia lay so close to the surface in friends and acquaintances whom I thought were "good Christian people."

Please don't infer that I am in any way comparing Howard with Bush. I am just drawing a parallel of how Howard won the election because of these timely events.

by john_wills

Dubya is goin to win because:
1. Nader is running;
2. SF has instituted gay marriages shortly after the Massachussetts Supreme Court gave the legistlarure orders to allow them;
3. Condoleeza Rice is running as Dubya's VP - that may not be true, but it can be made tue if Dubya thinks it would tie things up;
4. oh yes, war is a good thing for an incumbent.

by maxwell edison

.
Drudge - Pretty reliable, and pretty early in reporting news. If there's any merit to the story, and there usually is with Drudge's stories, it should make the main-stream media in a couple of days.

by oz_media

As you've said this is should be a credible source and it is rumour as of now but I noticed that the article had about 12 paragraphs. There are about 10 'disclaimers' to place the source as an outside or questionable claim though.

"the paper says" several times etc.

It is a nice thought and on ei hope surfaces as true. Obviously nothing could be said if such an operation is underway so we get to sit and wait.

Good luck, I hope it is so.

by maxwell edison

.
There really isn't any corporal punishment in the United States unless, of course, you consider the death penalty a form of it.

Actually, I'm in, what seems to be, the minority on the death penalty issue, as I'm against it. I'm against it for a couple of reasons. First of all, I don't think it's right to take a life except in the circumstances of self defense (and a soldier in war is self defense, even if he's in an offensive mode). It could be argued, I suppose, that putting someone to death is a form of societal self-defense, but there are obviously other ways to defend society from a person already in custody. The second reason I'm against it is because, oftentimes, it's too easy on the perpetrator of a heinous crime. Would you rather die or spend the rest of your life in prison? Some people might rather die than lose their freedom.

But wait a minute, I don't like the alternative to the death penalty either. The alternative - the U.S. prison system - has become accountable to such organizations as the Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union). We spend 42 billion dollars a year to house about 2 million inmates. That's an average of 21 thousand dollars per inmate, and that doesn't include the billions of dollars we spend on their legal fees. (If a convict cannot afford an attorney, we provide one for him.) I've heard numbers in the 20 million range as the total cost of putting a person to death. Do you want to hear something really absurd? There have been cases where death row inmates received, at taxpayer expense, organ transplants to keep them alive!

I would prefer a "living death" penalty, one where the perpetrators of heinous crimes is kept alive, but wished he was dead. But I suppose that would violate our Constitutional provision against "cruel and unusual punishment", whatever that is. I've never bothered to research the subject, but I wonder what prison life was like and what the prevailing punishments were in the late 18th and early 19th centuries? What the founders did in such cases would certainly clear up what they meant by cruel and unusual punishment. But I don't think denying them air-conditioned cells and cable television would be included.

The French penal colony of Devil's Island - now you're talking.

by thechas

Before I get started, I also think that we have made prison life far too easy.

First off, I think prisons need to have multiple wings. Inmates who are well behaved should get a few privileges such as a reasonable temperature and "basic" entertainment.

Working prisoners has become VERY problematic.
The office furniture industry is very upset about the "unfair" advantage that prison industries has when it comes to government contracts.
Protecting officers, inmates and the public makes it expensive to operate "chain-gangs".

The "best" deterrent that we can use to reduce the number of inmates that return to a life of crime is to prepare them for a useful career.
First, ALL inmates need to be required to have their GED (or equivalent) prior to being released.
Then, trade school courses should be available for "well behaved" inmates who have the desire to better themselves.

The problem with long prison sentences, and even the death penalty is that criminals don't think about the punishment, they think about the chances of being caught and convicted.

We need to strengthen our police departments so that they have time to devote to the small crimes before we can have any hope of reducing the big crimes.
Back in the 50's and 60's, people knew that if they spat on the sidewalk the beat officer would stop and at least lecture them.
Up through the early 70's, very seldom did you see a motorist travel at more than 5 MPH over the speed limit. They just knew that they would be stopped.
Now, with budgets sliced to the bone, the police only have the resources to go after the most egregious offenders. So, after years of getting away with small infractions, someone who starts down a criminal path believes that they are smart, and can get away with anything.

Chas

by john_wills

I have several times had my pocket picked. The police were not at all interested in catching the thief, although his use of my credit cards gave clues which could have been followed. A friend of mine found that one of his stolen cheques had been used to pay someone's telephone bill: the police ignored this valuable information, which had put them only a few steps from the thief. The SF Chronicle a few months ago did a series showing similar lack of interest in violent crimes. People who have never read the detective stories I did as a teenager are becoming police officers without any interest in their work. What jobs they would be good at I do not know. The police both in SF and in the WM of England have resources for a far wider range of investigation than they are interested in conducting.

by oz_media

I wasn't really thinking of a death sentence but he's already cost too much money to justify keeping him around wt a cost of miilions a year.

I was thinking of a more experitental death over e few drinks with some pissed off soldiers. Kind like pulling the legs of a spider or whatever.

As for death penalty as a resolutoin, I won't stand for the death penalty until we can stop wrongly convicting people and realizing our mistakes 10-20 years later, "ooooops you can carry on with your life now, sorry bout that!".

by onbliss

...mosquitoes..er I mean more fanatics / terrorists.

However, desirable or cherisable such punishments, these should not be metted out to him.

He is a fanatic. He will not repent in his lifetime.

More important than destroying him is the prevention of his legacy. I am sure he must have committed other henious crimes...got to expose them...belittle him infront of his followers in a such a way that they realize the truth. I am more on these lines of punishment.

Just think, what he will undergo when he comes to realize that there would not be many to carry his torch forward in the future. His own people are shunning him and chastising him. The remorse he would feel. That is like two mangoes with one stone :-)

by john_wills

The U.S. is not to blame for Al Qa'ida, but it did help by supporitn Zionism in varous atrocities and by propping up Arab despotisms. For long-term peace the U.S. needs to stopo doing these immoral things. Apart from that, we should ask our Muslim friends why there is no monasticism in Islam,although it is twice commended in the Quran: monasticism helps keep a church sane, besides providing an outlet for people whom might otherwise turn to violence to inaugurate the kingship of God. And church music, I think, would also help.

by mrafrohead

You know Maxwell. I read this when you posted it on Saturday. I found it QUITE amazing/scary that I could read through all of the major news outlets and also my local outlets and there is NOTHING noted about this.

Yet I could go to foreign media outlets and it's all over the place.

Why is OUR media not talking about this? I feel like we are being lied to.

Thank you for reporting this to us, as two days later I would still be none the wiser!

Mrafrohead

by oz_media

I am sure there are MANY resons it is not shown on US news.
It MAY be unconfirmed
It may have been leaked and not intended to be released
It may be BS

From what I see on US news and Canadian, Indian channels, you are getting about 75% of the story most of the time.

This was discussed in another thread and was shown as media bias as opposed to censorship. You will see what America wants you to see. Furthermore, many will believe only what America wants you to believe. If you ask me, you need more culturally diverse TV, we have Middle Eastern, Chinese, Japanese, French, US and British TV networks in Canada. It's a great way to see how the world feels without making assumptions based on local news.

by guruofdos

I have just returned from the Middle East, where I have had several meetings with some fairly 'high-up' officials from various Arabic government police and military departments. The consensus of opinion 'around the dinner table' seems to be that Osama Bin Laden has already been captured and is in detention in the region. The 'smart dinars' are all being bet on the fact that shortly before the US elections, the Americans will 'produce Bin Laden out of the hat', ensuring that Dubya suddenly gets a large popular vote.

The even smarter money is saying that the US forces had nothing to do with it and that it was a 'local' operation. Of course, several million US dollars HAVE changed hands to 'facilitate' his capture.

Make of this what you will!!!

by maxwell edison

.
On several million US dollars changing hands to 'facilitate' his capture. To which I would say, only several million? I would have guessed that bribes and payoffs would have reached the tens of millions by now. (Dang, and I'd be happy with a very small chunk of it.)

On already been captured. Color me skeptical on this one. It would be too hard to keep under wraps. (Of course, they have kept the secret about captured space aliens under wraps for quite some time.) Moreover, contrary to what many of our TechRepublican friends may think, that's not GWB's style.

On US forces having nothing to do with it. Yea, right. (In case you didn't know, that's an American lingo example, albeit a slang example, of a double positive meaning a negative)

by onbliss

...not like handcuffing or something like that. It can be like tracking his movements,making it possible to handcuff him in short notice.

As far as keeping things under wrap, I am sure there are ways and means to do so incase such events occur.

by oz_media

the Sunday telegraph has released another story, howeber thet refer to the Washington Post as thier source.

You need login, ID, so I C&P'd the article in it's entirety.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The top-secret US commando team that spearheaded the capture of Saddam Hussein is heading for Afghanistan in the latest sign that the hunt for Osama bin Laden is coming to a head.

Battle-hardened units from Task Force 121 are being shifted as intelligence reports increase on the possible whereabouts of the terrorist leader, according to an article in the Washington Times by a reporter known for his access to the special forces.

Most of the "high-value targets" from Saddam's regime have been caught or killed, Pentagon officials told the paper. "Iraq has become more of a policing problem than a hunt for high-value Iraqis. Afghanistan is the place where 121 can do more."

Two long, frustrating years after bin Laden and Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, escaped US forces and their Afghan allies, American commanders are now openly talking about the likelihood of their capture this year.

It is impossible to overstate the importance of catching bin Laden to the American public, whose anger and grief over the September 11 attacks has not faded.

It would provide a spectacular election-year boost for President George W Bush, whose Democratic opponents criticised the Iraq war as a distraction from the hunt for al-Qa'eda. George Tenet, the CIA director, paid a secret visit to Islamabad this month as American and Pakistani troops began the largest manhunt for al-Qa'eda leaders to date.

President Pervaiz Musharraf of Pakistan, who has survived two recent assassination attempts linked to al-Qa'eda, has started deploying thousands of troops in the highly sensitive tribal region of Waziristan, on the Afghan border.

American forces are mounting a parallel spring offensive on the Afghan side of the frontier, aiming to create what Lt Gen David Barno, the US commander in Afghanistan, described last week as "a hammer and anvil" effect to trap terrorist fugitives between the two armies.

Pathan tribal elders have been given an ultimatum to hand over Taliban and al-Qa'eda fighters and America has been publicising its offers of large rewards for the capture of bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and other al-Qa'eda leaders.

Defence sources concede that specific intelligence about bin Laden's whereabouts might prompt a special forces raid across the Pakistani border.

Task Force 121 combines navy Seals and commandos of the army Delta Force, an elite group modelled on the SAS, as well as CIA paramilitaries.

Though regular troops from the 4th Infantry Division were given public credit for dragging Saddam from his "spider hole" in December, the task force played a key role in the capture.

Taking Bin Laden alive may prove the greatest challenge of all. Taliban fighters in Pakistan recently told Newsweek magazine that mines and high explosives are laid around each hiding place adopted by "the Sheikh", not only for protection but also to ensure that he can be "martyred" quickly, and his body destroyed.

by oz_media

Just another story in the same paper.

"Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein have been nominated for the title of the "greatest Arab" of all time in a Middle Eastern variant of the BBC's Great Britons series.

An Arabic television channel began accepting nominations last week, after buying the format for the popular programme from the BBC. Thousands have already logged on to the website for the series or sent text messages to vote for their preferred candidate."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sounds like many people weren't so disgusted with these leaders after all.

I can email the rest of the story if anyone wants it.
OM

This discussion is closed to new replies.