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  • #2285386

    Outsourcing and Racism

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    by injun_cowboy ·

    I think the current IT outsourcing howl has to do with a form of racism. Yes, that’s what it it. Tell you why. ‘Cos it’s jobs going to places like India, Mexico & China. No one cried foul when techie jobs went to the factories set up in Good Ol’ Ireland, or Poland, or Germany or Holland or England. No sir! Those guys are OK. C’mon folks, you know it!

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    • #2728284

      And one more thing …

      by injun_cowboy ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      Same thing happened when the Japanese began to come in with cars etc. Germans and Swedish cars were OK, but not the Asian makes, though. Holland, Britain and Germany own more of the USA than any other country, but when Japan began to buy property in the US, ooooh! that was baaad! C’mon folks, stop this partiality and let’s move on.

      • #2728277

        The Real Answer

        by injun_cowboy ·

        In reply to And one more thing …

        As many other enlightened TR members have already pointed out, we Americans have always invented outtasight stuff, given it to the world and made it a better place. And we’ll continue to do so. Nano-tech tomorrow, atmospheric-energy the day after. That’s what makes us the Greatest Nation on Earth, baby! We’ll keep on, keepin’ on.

        • #2728174

          On the Car Thing–WRONG!

          by tomsal ·

          In reply to The Real Answer

          I’ll pick on the car topic since I know folks in the industry and extreme racing buffs with their own drag racers who live for cars and speed.

          Read up on the quality of American made cars in the past…it sucked. BAD. Other countries were beating us pretty good on quality.

          It was other markets like the Asian automakers who forced our domestic automakers to get strict on quality control standards, the asian automakers have a lot to do with why our newer model cars today are of a lot higher quality than they used to be.

          And of course you hear about outsourcing about specific nations like India, China, Mexico…they are the cheapest labor! A job an employer pays $30/hr here gets it done for $12 – $13 / hr overseas.

          It really sucks..but how do you (as an American worker) compete with that, besides moving?

        • #2728111

          Interesting point

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to On the Car Thing–WRONG!

          I’m glad you shone a light on the Inaccuracy thet you give the world thier inventions.

          I agree that you often IMPROVE inventions or develop patents but the US is not really seen as an inventor by anyone I know.

          Now, in the same sense, the Japanese have been gien the tag as the ones who take other inventions and make them smaller, lighter, faster and many say better, this is true due to the assembly processes and electronics engineering in Asian countries.

          As for cars, US suto manufacturers have never even come remotely close to developing the high RPM technology that the Japanese have. North american cars are large, bulky, inefficient workhorses of the industry. No matter how sleek and light they try to make them, compact cars in North America are 5 year disposables at best.

          As for racing, this is an entirely different market. Big block V8’s MADE North America, they were the status symbol that every American clung to during the great depression.

          nobody has ever denied the ability of a 440 magnum or a 429 Cobra Jet as a real powerhouse that makes Japanese cars look like toys.

          Unfortunately, as much as American muscle is my passion (I’ve completely restored 5 Mopars to original showroom condition that are now shown and winning regularly).

          So racing and Japanese refinement of the compact car are not similar in any sense of the word.

          Just look at what happened to Chrysler after Ford built the Pinto and Honda had the Civic. chryslers bit idea was to use the same parts for ALL cars and just change body styles. What a nightmare that was, garbage from Chrysler was around throughout the 80’s, have you seen an 84 Lebaron on the road lately? Bet you’ve seen hundreds of ’85 Civics, Acccords and Preludes though.

          This gave American manufacturers the bad name they have fought to rid themselves of for decades now, to little or no avail.

          Pickups? No Asian company has come close to matching a North American truck, out of which nobody has matched Ford’s engineering.

          Compact cars, we don’t have a chance. That is truly a European/Asian market. They NEVER built full size cars, you couldn’t drive one in England or Germany or Japan. They specialize in compact engineering.

          North America, bigger has always been better, and that didn’t stop with automobiles.

        • #2728002

          Vintage Mopar

          by oldefar ·

          In reply to Interesting point

          While you are right about the 80’s, it was by no means a new concept or even limited to Chrysler. The concept of different skins on essentially the same vehicles was common with the Plymouth and Dodge lines back in the 60’s, as well as between Buick, Oldsmobile, and Caddillac, Chevrolet and Pontiac, and Ford and Mercury.

          My bored out ’63 Dart had parts salvaged from various 60 – 67 Dart and Valient models. With a slant 6 190 cubic inch bored out to 232, and that solid push button torque flight transmission, I gave the 289 hypos a run through 3 gears. Most would back off at that point under the assumption that I had dropped a 340 under the hood. ‘Course, what they didn’t know was that I had reached my top end just after leaving rubber as I hit 3rd.

        • #2727980

          Sorry I wasn’t too clear

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Vintage Mopar

          I wasn’t implying it was a new concept to interchange parts. The old Jeep 304 from the war has interchangeable heads with a 74 350.

          I was pointing at Lee Iacoca’s take over in 1978. Downhill went Chrysler with the K car. I kept them out of bankruptcy but the disposable car was truly born, much to everyone’s dismay 2 years later. A Top of the line Lebaron had the same motor and engine support system, suspension, transmission and drivetrain as the MUCH cheaper K-Car (made popular by our friends The Skipper from Gilligan’s Island).

          I have been an old Mopar fanfor sometime (still FOMOCO biased) but I have owned/restored a ’70 Charger (show winner), (67 & 73) Cuda’s, ’69 Challenger (show winner) and a Super Bee (ROCKET).
          (Fun tip, take an old 360 and grind the intakes to take the 340 2.02″ valves)BREEEEEAAAATH!

          Mopar, you build one you can build ’em all, but each has very nice, unique character.

    • #2728264

      Racism is a two-way street

      by ken_yoshimoto ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      You shouldn’t accuse others of racism when you are more guilty than those you accuse. Moreover, you can’t blame others for wanting to protect their livelihood. Their jobs weren’t threatened by factory-workers in Ireland or Poland. They also weren’t losing jobs to ungrateful aliens on the homefront.

      • #2728256

        Not really

        by injun_cowboy ·

        In reply to Racism is a two-way street

        Wanna bet? Those factories in Ireland & other EU, directly impacted myself and my friends in my company, ‘cos they took away jobs since those EU workers were cheaper. So, it did hurt. But no one screamed … hey! it’s the Irish – they’re OK. But not them “aliens” from India, China, Mexico or Japan, right? A very colorful view.

    • #2728255

      hit right on the head

      by the_gnome ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      You’re right! I wouldn’t mind flipping burgers for a living if my tech job went to a blond, blue-eyed Aryan.

      • #2728243

        this is what i’m saying! thank you!!

        by injun_cowboy ·

        In reply to hit right on the head

        ok, let’s be serious now. you know and i know none of us wants to lose our jobs to anyone else, in country or out … to an aryan or a dravidian (the original peoples of India, FYI). But it is curious that the uproar is way louder since it’s “dravidian” countries now that are seen to be taking way our jobs. be true to yourself!

        • #2728052

          In the same repect though

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to this is what i’m saying! thank you!!

          While I completely agree with your focus, the issue was not theatening too many jobs until outsourcing caught on as a viable option for MOST corporations. Indian labour is MUCH cheaper than in most EU countries. Plus you must consider the exchange rate on US to Euros or UK Pounds compared to the US to Indian Rupee.

          Todays numbers. 1$ US = 0.82 Euros
          1$ US = 0.56 UK Pounds
          1$ US = 45.20 Rupees

          Where would you get the best value for money?

          Outsourcing to Europe doesn’t make a lot of monetary sense at this time at all, the only way it is SLIGHLY cheaper is the lower salaries, but they aren’t that different than North American salaries.

          Your dollar being worth between 56 – 86 Euros/Pounds in Europe is not such an inviting deal.

          Now if your dollar is worth $45.00 rupees in India, it’s a better option to save a lot of money.

    • #2728250

      The only color taken into consideration. . .

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      .
      …..is the color of money – GREEN.

    • #2728245

      think again.

      by american_it_guy ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      perhaps it is fear of a few in power with no morals but plenty of greed.
      A billion eager souls with many younger than I seeming to work for next to nothing in this unfair arrangement, has nothing to do with race.
      It is not that I think they are better, it’s that if we miss too many paychecks, it does not matter what we think.
      Ever hear of self preservation? That is what *THEY* are doing. Don’t be fooled. It is human nature and will never change.
      If you are not willing to take from your own family to feed India, then you are NOT for offshoring.

      • #2728236

        self reservation it is

        by injun_cowboy ·

        In reply to think again.

        the ones practicing self-preservation are the corporate honchos – they will ship the jobs out wherever it’s cheaper; so now it’s India and China. But really, the way to preserve one’s job is to come up with a watertight contract to prevent (or make it damned expensive) for the powers that be from taking it away from you.

        • #2727888

          Make it a little less cost effective !

          by orpheum ·

          In reply to self reservation it is

          There is a light at the end of the rainbow there cowboy!

    • #2728229

      Some questions to consider

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      .
      Does this mean that Americans whose skin color is something other than white who, presumably, lose a job due to outsourcing can complain about racism as well?

      If someone “claims” racism, but there really is no racism involved, who’s the real racist, or is it just a case of mistaken accusation?

      • #2728059

        Great observation

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Some questions to consider

        What a great heads up analogy of racism due to outsourcing. I will keep that one in mind as it is a very good argument!

    • #2728201

      No Racism – Just Greed!

      by lrsprague ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      I wish it were as simple as racism, this outsourcing trend, which is more of an arterial bleed than a capillary leak.. If it were racism, we could at least sue over it via civil rights legislation, etc., but it isn’t. The truth of the matter is that American executives are just plain GREEDY and they want to line their pockets and fatten their bonus packages, by reducing their company’s costs of doing business. Yes, they reduce their costs, in the short-term, but in so doing, they eliminate American jobs permanently. That’s GREED in action my friends, pure GREED, NOT RACISM.

      • #2728179

        Greed – Not just for corporate execs anymore!

        by jasoncctc ·

        In reply to No Racism – Just Greed!

        How many times have you seen consumers make purchase decisions based on price alone?

        • #2728058

          Can’t resist

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Greed – Not just for corporate execs anymore!

          That’s exactly what has put WalMart on the map. If most people realized HOW they get competitive pricing, you guys would boycott WalMart the same as many do Canada.

          Poor busines ethics does not make up for saving a buck, or at least it shouldn’t. Too many people turn a blind eye on local stores, products and manufacturing if they can save a dollar by buying sweatshop products instead. Sadly enough, quality has gone out the window to be replaced by volume and lower pricing.

        • #2727884

          Let’s not dwell on product

          by orpheum ·

          In reply to Greed – Not just for corporate execs anymore!

          We’ve missed the boat on product manufacturing – agreed. Why does it matter if a retail end user buys hardware based on price, quality or country of origion? Whatever the answer, the US laborer is not assembling said hardware! Or very little of it if any.

      • #2727886

        Point is – it’s ‘Legal’

        by orpheum ·

        In reply to No Racism – Just Greed!

        Is it a good idea to continue enabling the suicide of our labor force? Should this level of corporate sweat shop abuse continue to remain legal?? When will America draw a ‘line in the sand’?

    • #2728194

      Frustration in Flying Round the World

      by proxcauseny ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      Frustration in Flying Round the World
      Our office is actively searching for effective US based customer support in determining our selections for new purchases. Telephone tag around the world does not work. I would greatly appreciate TR’s post of suppliers that provide service from employees that are located here in the US. I challenge fellow IP professional to find upper tier support from these far flung outsourced locations, and can understand or make themselves understood by primary tier support staffers in India, The Phillipines or Korea. Outsourcing to these locatiions rips off the IP consumer!!!!!

    • #2728135

      I don’t agree

      by nean_72 ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      Personally my anger isn’t directed towards either the people receiving the offshore IT jobs (people from India, China, etc.) and it isn’t directed towards the companies with the offshore contracts. As far as the people are concerned in similiar circumstances I would do the same thing. As far as the companies are concerned if they are able to cut their IT expenditures significantly then it is a wise business decision. In business in order to stay ahead of the competition you take every advantage you can.
      What I don’t understand is why isn’t the US government doing anything about it? It is obvious that a US worker cannot compete with a similiarly skilled worker from a third world nation because their cost of living is a fraction of what the US worker’s is. This happened throughout manufacuring and now it is happening in IT. We have to be the only country to actively promote domestic jobs going overseas. All other countries seem to set up some form of protection for domestic jobs except for the US.
      And I could care less where the IT jobs are going, I simply don’t like the fact that they are leaving our country and going some where else.

      • #2728119

        Questions

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to I don’t agree

        A much as I agree with your statements about companies needing to control costs with outsourcing, you also said:

        “What I don’t understand is why isn’t the US government doing anything about it? It is obvious that a US worker cannot compete with a similiarly skilled worker from a third world nation because their cost of living is a fraction of what the US worker’s is”

        US companies outsource to Canada too, how does this apply to a Canadian with a much higher cost of living ? Especially when we generally earn much more than our US neighbours?

    • #2728122

      First takem – without predjudice

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      Without readin opinions above and generating a personal bias, I will just add some surface thoughts and person al experience.

      First of all, England is one such country that is also suffering from outsourcing to India, to say your jobs are going to the UK is incorrect, I think, unless the UK firms are then subcontracting to India of course.

      Having lived in Vancouver so long, I have learned that even though I hold a personal bias against the way some races treat thier new home I need to accept racial differences, there are very few ACTUAL Canadians (Native indians) in this picture and we are ALL immigrants ourselves. Whether born here or not, we are not the founders of this land, we simply occupy it.

      That aside, I have always been open to outsourcing, I don’t work in a help desk related position, which is where I see MOST outsourcing.

      I recently had a NIGHTMARE 5.5 hour phone call to SMC tech support. Reps were EXREMELY polite, they tried VERY hard to be helpful. They just didn’t understand that exch new rep I was passed to was going over the exact same steps as the last. When I hit the 5 hour mark, I was practically BEGGING for a senior engineer, as opposed to the nest telemarketer who simply started reding the same steps everyone else had.

      I finally got a senior engineer, he understood my issue immediately and as peredicted over 5 hours before, my router was DOA and I need an RMA.

      The day before, I had done all the steps as read out by the help desk people, the conversation ended with a tech saying, if you add this patch and it doesn’t work, call us back ad we’ll issue an RMA. This will explain my frustration when that callback to obtain the R

    • Outsourcing is costing no matter where the jobs go

      by endorphinejunkie ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      Racism is a sad reality of human nature, at least to some. The problem with outsourcing is that it should have been stopped or flags raised long ago. Now these big corporations are sending the jobs overseas because labor is cheaper and they don’t have the overhead costs in benefits that they do here. It stinks agree wholeheartedly as I’m a techie that’s been out of work for almost 2 years with no job in sight and no way to pay bills even with a BS and a MS on the way…

      Big corporations found a way to cut there budgets in areas that would increase their revenue and they’re going to do it regardless of what it does to this country’s IT industry.

      • #2728057

        Passive question

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Outsourcing is costing no matter where the jobs go

        I don’t want to imply anything but can I ask HOW you’ve been out of work for 2 years with ANY qualifications at all?

        Do you mean you have been unemployed or simply can’t find IT work.

        Are you finding that you are overqualified when applying or is it that you don’t see many jobs advertised etc.?

        May I ask what state you live in?

    • #2728048

      Accents, Wages Threaten India’s Gains on Outsourcing

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      With the US showing an average wage increase of 3% last year and India’s showing a growth of over 22% things are getting tougher everywhere.

      Here’s a recent article that addresses the same issue I’ve had with Indian outsourcing. Polite but not understood.
      http://tinyurl.com/38ckv

    • #2730391

      What a bunch of whiners!

      by bwallan ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      We’ve used “off-shore” techies (being in Canada, I am an “off-shore” techie to you guys/gals). We’ve used “home-grown” techies. The difference between the two boils down to “cost” and control.

      Our experience with “off-shore” techies has not been great. Language comprehension and culture have caused problems. Differences in contract law have caused problems. Time zones have caused problems. Lack of being able to meet with the people doing the work and not being able to review problems face-to-face has caused problems. Yes, the code cost us less but we also received far less in true value. We could have accomplished the same thing with home-grown techies for the same real cost!

      Also, quality “off-shore” techies are becoming increasingly expensive. I rapidly foresee the time when home-grown techies (even US techies) will once again be in demand. They sure are in Canada. Anyone with a University Computer Science degree has NO problems finding excellent employment! Sure, there are losers in every profession and people that just don’t want to work for a living. But if you’re willing to look at IT employment as a “career” and not simply a “job”, I can see no reason why a qualified IT professional would be unemployed (anywhere)!?

      If worse comes to worse, join the “off-shore” work force OR, better yet, set up a firm to manage off-shore resources for US based companies. You can then have it both ways!

      • #2730374

        Well being Canadian

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to What a bunch of whiners!

        When you say:
        “Anyone with a University Computer Science degree has NO problems finding excellent employment!”

        I think you are giving us too much credit, a pulse and a few fingers will get you employed in IT in Canada. I was a full time admin long before looking for certs, even that was only because the employer paid for it.

        I kno some VERY successful coders that run a powerful key encryption company. NONE of them have ANY Unoversity experience, but can write Python better than I write my name. They are taking C++ coders down everywhere.

        Unions are pretty pissed at US outsourcing 50 jobs to US firms for the new Victoria Arena. They are claiming a shortage of unemployed labourers and certified tradesmen in BC because they are all working. Fort St. John is also BEGGING for people to move in with ANY experience. They have a massive need to fill, good money and everything but I just moved to the Island so I’m staying put.

        For any US citizens looking for work, move here, earn more money and work is EVERYWHERE!

        • #2730262

          No way…

          by mrbill- ·

          In reply to Well being Canadian

          My sister lives in Ontario, if I moved to Canada I could never live it down. I would love to visit the NW someday, beautiful country.

        • #2730232

          Ahhhh

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to No way…

          well I wouldn’t move to Ontario either. I lived in the Maritimes for a year or so but too much snow. Toronto’s too snowy, Montreal and Alberta are snowy.

          The west coast of BC, we get drizzle and rain but for the month of March so far it has been sunny almost everyday.

          Form working and travelling across Canada, there is no way I would live anywhere other than the BC West Coast, it is unsurpassed for beauty and scenery.

        • #2730202

          A little off topic… but what the heck!

          by bwallan ·

          In reply to Ahhhh

          Outsourcing to Canadian weather… that’s quite a stretch!

          But while we’re on the topic, you can have Victoria and the west coast… too much drizzle and not enough snow for good skiing. But not bad salmon fishing and hiking!

          I’ll stay in Alberta with good skiing six months of the year (and just mediocre skiing for the other six months). I also prefer the lower tax rates and lack of provincial sales tax. And the last 32 years have been great for IT consulting!

          Enjoy!

        • #2730194

          Agreed

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to A little off topic… but what the heck!

          Alberta is my second fav place in Canada. I just got back from a meeting in Jasper and it is breathtaking. I have stayed in revelstoke for almost a year before while driving truck, I saw a LOT of rogers Pass and Alta, the Rockies are truly stunning as they loom over you and you can barely see the tops from the highways.

          BUT….we have Whistler, great skiing season. The Isaldn we have Mt QWashington whic also has a good season. When I lived in Rossland in the interior we had almost never ending skiing at Red Mountain, where the Canadian Ski team used to train before Whistler/Blackcombe.

          Between BC and Alberta, it’s a tough choice but I’ve always preferred to lived on islands or the coast, as I like to sail, kayak etc. Me needs me water.

          I love visiting Alberta but the stuff just isn’t as cheap as it used to be, private liquor stores are a nice touch but stuff like smokes and booze isn’t that much cheaper anymore. They just lump the prices and up the margins to meet our taxes.
          Not like it used to be, I’d drive to Banff or Calgary for a couple of cartons of smokes and some good Scotch, it just doesn’t pay anymore though as it is not that much cheaper these days.

          You still have the 25 packs of smokes though, I give you kudos for that and for having a beuatiful province. Damn, us Western Canadian’s got it good don’t we?!?!?

        • #2728784

          All but for one item…

          by bwallan ·

          In reply to Agreed

          We’ve still got an eastern government…

          But what the hey, the sun is shining, the snow is melting and there’s lots of work to keep you busy!

        • #2728783

          We have a government??

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Agreed

          No kidding? I line the Victooria Harbour and Parliment Buildings but that’s just for show.

          I didn’t realize we actually had a government in Canada. You’d think we’d hear about it somewow.

          Oh well who cares, I going camping. 🙂

    • #2730236

      Ridiculous

      by topesblues ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      That?s absolutely ridiculous. The reason people are upset now is that a lot of American workers have lost there jobs. If tech jobs moved overseas to Germany ect. It must not have taken many jobs because there wasn?t a shortage of IT jobs until recently. If all the tech jobs moved to Germany and it displaced a large amount of workers, people would be just as pissed. The only thing not surprising is someone screaming racism!!!

      • #2730225

        I think

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Ridiculous

        The point he was trying to make, is if you are out of work, FIND SOME. I have seen people out of work for two or three years while complaining there’s no work!?!

        You may not find realted IT work, but you can always fid work, outsourcing is a lazy way of complaining about unemployment. If you want to stay in the industry THAT bad (I don’t know HY someone would fight to stay in IT), you can move, there’s LOTS of IT work around if you are so stumped in your own neighbourhood.

    • #2727939

      Take into consideration

      by sue.ritter ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      Outsourcing is not the only problem. In the IS department of the company I work at they just laid off a whole bunch of people and then replaced them with “in” office workers but they are consultants from India and are not citizens of the US. So they fired people to bring in people from another country. I know that’s no the same thing as outsourcing but what would it be called? This trend scares me more because if you are in IT you can always find some job that is hands on and can’t be outsourced but what do you do if they bring the outsourced jobs in office. Do you know what I mean?

      • #2727906

        Couple of concerns to look at

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Take into consideration

        1) Are these new employees being paid the same salaries as the previous employees, I would doubt it’s even close.

        2) I assume they are hiring on a sponsorship level and therefore monetary interest comes from the government.

        3) Perhape these ‘new’ employees are actually more suited for thier position due to formal training (IT is massive in India, it make us look like newbies).

        Another thing you guys all might want to consider is looking at monster.com and searching for the jobs in India. You might want to consider moving if you do, there is such an overabundance of jobs it isn’t funny. We have it goos in Canada but that’s a complete gravy train, for recruiters too.

        So these people are highly trained, work for less money and will relocate with sponsorship to North America and Europe. If I was considering IT staff, it would only make sense to look at options such as this.

        Is this a result of an earlier issue that should have been reconsidered, similar to the NAFTA garbage? We work hard to equalize the worlds economy and open up intercontinental relationships. We should then be willing to accomodate such changes to our economy and livelihoods.

        It sucks but it is reality, is we are truly here to see an unbaised, unpredjudiced world, we are also here to realize that we need to adjust our income expectations and cost of living to compete with those who already have.

      • #2727887

        CALL THE INS

        by infoaaa19 ·

        In reply to Take into consideration

        If you talk to one of those fired people, tell them to file a complaint with the INS and get a lawyer like the people did at Sun Microsystems.

        • #2727883

          what a waste of time

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to CALL THE INS

          Certainly after waiying omnths for letters to exchange hands, lawyers to hold a discovery session. Many phone calls etc. You have most people that were on your side already working somewhere alse and they lose interest.

          Lawyers are further delayed due to lack of response, it will sit idly inevitably.

          In the long run you MAY succeed given that the company’s lawyers are unable to find suitable reason for dismissal which is VERY easy regardless of actual cirumstances.

          If you do succeedm you will be entitled to very minimal compensation, it will be sucked up with the costs of waiting that long and all for what, to prove a point and have your say.

          In the case of a mere employee (Officers and partners are different all together)you are better off just going somewhere else.

          You must also consider what you want to achieve, you will not want to go back to work at the company even if you do win. You will not be able to work if you want compensation for loss of wages. It will be much harder to find work if you have to explain the two year gap between employers was due to your want of compensation from the last guy who fired you.

          What is the point? Money? How much? It REALLY is a waste of time.

          You are speaking completely from a principle point of view, it isn’t practical though.

          My brother is a corporate attorney for a massive corporation that sees many new law suits filed against it each week. A great deal of them come from the thsouands of disgrunted employees that ge fired for one reason or another.

          If it is a case where the company knows it can’t win, very seldom or they would find different attorneys, it will pat out immediately and without contest.

          If the company has the slightest hope of winning the case is usually dragged out endlessly regardless of size or money in question, it looks bad in the portfolio to pay out people.

          Bottom line is that the plaintiff almost never actually wins even if he wins the judgement.

          So if you feel like going on a crusade of principle with little or no end benefit other than a feeling of righteousness, get on with your life and find a new job instead. If I worked for such a company ad wasn’t one that was fired, I’d also get up and peave pretty quick myself, rather than sit ad wait for my turn at thier convenience.

        • #2727882

          Nasty typos

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to what a waste of time

          Sorry, long day

        • #2727881

          No Problem

          by infoaaa19 ·

          In reply to Nasty typos

          Your typos make more sense then our friend who started this discussion. BTW in the US it is a little different….People from Sun Microsystem got a very comfortable settlement and all kind of goverment investigation. It took a couple of years but it was well worth it.

        • #2727848

          Not different by country

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to No Problem

          The difference comes in the media. This case was with an extremely high profile company that was in the spotlight already but was escalated.

          Sun was a big issue due to the future of Java vs MSVirtual machine. It was juat another media move on a shining (no pun intended) target.

          The same thing happens here but not when a few dozen employees cry against non-Canadian workers. Company’s wouldn’t exist here without a mix of citizens and landed immigrants working for bugger all wages. It just gives us more time to go camping or skiing between business ventures.

    • #2727885

      Waste of Time

      by infoaaa19 ·

      In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

      It is funny how racism pops up every time someone who is here either illegally or on a work visa but wants to stay here. If you live here, You know milk is $4.25 a gallon. The cheapest beef you can find is $3-4 a pound. Housing is also expensive. Now the funniest thing is that you expect us to BUY your product. You have the choice to make it and we have the choice to BUY it…in case you have not heard it is called democracy, not racism. And all my legal Indian friends living here will attest to that.

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