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Petrol prices and profits ....

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In a recent discussion, I commented that the cashier at a particular service station justified the inflated prices of drinks, snacks and groceries on the basis that little profit was made on the driveway.

Yesterday I raised this subject with the wife of the owner of another service station. Yes, this was so she assured me. While the motorist is paying more than $AU one dollar per litre, the service station makes only half a cent per litre.

I would be interested to learn if this is also the case in other countries. Do the service stations subsist on inflated prices for non-petroleum products, while making a negligible margin on gas?

21 replies

by jamesrl

From what I have learned about the Canadian situation, the retailer(gas station) makes 3 or 4 % of the total cost - which may get eaten in a price war situation, but its fairly consistent.

It is important to note that when the price of oil goes up that usually everyone else's share remains consistent percentage-wise and everyone, the taxman, the refiner, and the retailler make more money.

James

by jimhm

That's interesting - Inflated pricing -

Lets see - In the US (numbers may not be exact)
Profit on Crude - 3 to 6% (at 42.00 a barr)

Now you see these same people complain about a gallon of gas but in the other hand is a 16 oz of bottled water they paid a $1.25 for. (How many of those make a gallon), or that 20 Oz Pepsi for $1.75 - how much is that a gallon.

Most people paid more for a gallon of gas back in the 1970's and during the 1980 oil shortages than today. Figure in 1970's what was your wage to a $1.12 a gallon.... (Thats around $3.25 today)..

And whats great about America - is they can charge what they want - and if you don't like it - you have the right to shop and purchase elsewhere..

So if you don't like the prices - I wouldn't purchase anything from that store - they will change their prices quickly if the only thing people buy is gas. Try it - it works.

by oz_media

THe cars USED to be far more fuel efficient than they are today, the price at the pump is noticeable when you are there more often.

Now I know a 360 V-8 burns more fuel than todays 1.4 litre engines in companct cars when looking at how FAR you can drive for $40.00. As for fuel efficieny, a 1.4 litre car will burn MORE fuel per combustion cycle in proportion per cylnder. As it generates LESS horsepower/PPM of fuel.

WHy would a new car burn less eficiently than a 74 Cuda? Heat for one, smal engines dissipate more heat that is generated by inefficient combustion. Less horsepower to the wheels, more weight on the pedal to keep going etc.

SO why don't OUR politicians demand that manufacturers build better cars, as is already being done in Europe, so we can get a better value for money at the pump. WHo cares how much of Iraq's oil we get, who cares how much TAX is added by our governments (which equates to the largest expense per gallon of fuel)if we are simply burning a LIMITED supply of oil we have drilled from the earth?

Oil will not be here forever, we drill it and consime it globally on a larger and larger demand every year. Once the oil is gone, the manufacturers will have to find new ways to run cars, they know this and have achieved this already, but make more on less efficient cars that break down randomly.

Did you know that auto manufaturers CAN build cars that virtually last forever? They choose not to of course, yay greedy business.

Instead of looking toresolve the SYMPTOMS, we need to address the cause, others have, they demand better cars and the manufacturers are supplying them. Then they build the same car with lower fuel efficiency and ship it to us.
WHY?

Because our politicians won't do anything about it. WHy won't they do anything about it? THey ae supported by the capitalists that control the industry ad desire to appease the manufacturers before appeasing the consumers and protecting our environmnet. But hey, you voted for them, it's YOUR job to ensure that they improve YOUR quality of life.

by jimhm

You would think at some point in time they would start really pushing tax breaks to increase the usage of Multi-fuel or alternate fuel vehicles.

Why is the price so high for a dulfuel vehicle (Gas/Electric) - Even at current fuel prices the break even point is a long way off. (Additional cost of vehicle to savings gained) - at one time with furnances in the us got a tax break on the purchase of 87% eff - demand drove them up to97%.. could do the same thing for dul-fuels and altnerate fuel vehicles (H-fuel, fuel cell, disels - gasahal) ...

I would love to fill up with sea water and emmisions be H2O and air ... (cover Sea water to H and O - then cover them to electric for the vehicle) ...

Never see it in my time ... Government has to encourage it - not mandate it ... like they did with other new technologies.

by jardinier

But the particular service station I referred to is a few minutes drive from where I live and is open 24/7. They sell the best meat pies I have ever tasted, and at a reasonable price. I can buy pies, sandwiches, freshly brewed coffee, milk, bread or whatever 24 hours a day. That is a definite convenience.

However there are NO fixed prices for anything in Australia. Consumer items, even things like newspapers, give a Recommended Retail Price only.

Petrol prices vary in different parts of Sydney. I happen to live in one of the most affluent areas -- (the fifth highest per capita income of any local government area in Sydney) and prices for most things are more expensive than in other parts of Sydney.

And I agree about your comparison between the price of gas and soft drinks.

As I often say -- when the price of gas reaches the price of refrigerated soft drinks, then we will REALLY have something to worry about.

by dc_guy

In the US, as with most of our commerce, gasoline prices are to a certain extent set by the laws of supply and demand. This means that in areas with small populations and few gas stations, the operators can jack up their prices under a "gentlemen's agreement" that no individual operator will lower their price in order to steal market share from the others.

In our out-of-the-way county with a total population of 100,000, low-octane gasoline is up to $2.40 per gallon (0.66/l), more than ten percent higher than the rest of the country. Even automotive diesel fuel is about $2.25 (0.62/l). It's a hundred-mile drive to the next population center, so they've got a captive market.

Our Costco must have been the last one in the nation to open a service station. We were eagerly awaiting the $1.90 (0.52/l) price posted at every other Costco in America. No luck. The petroleum mafia got to them, and their price is $2.30 (0.63/l)!

But of course this does not stop gas stations from charging outrageous prices for food, maps, and sunglasses. They figure that they have a captive market. Perhaps in those desolate regions that your filmmakers use to define Australia, the only place to buy a Coke is a gas station. But in America, anyone who would actually walk into a gas station to buy anything but a petroleum product is either lost, lazy, rich, or stupid!

by oz_media

You provided a cost per litre in USD but then you have to equate it to Canadian dollars for us to appreciate the cost.

At $2.30 US per gallon, that is 62 cents US per metric liter (I think).

Now if you see that in Canadian dollars lets say at an avg. exchange of 40 cents on the dollar, now you are spending 88 cents Canadian per gallon.

Our local gas prices sit between 89 cents on a really good day with pump lineups, and as much as $1.02 Liter.

The average in BC is about 98 cents/litre now that's $3.75 CDA per gallon.

We used to find benefit in driving to Point Roberts (peninsula just over the border)and buying Canadian gas (Chevron, Petro Canada) in America for les than we could buy it here.

Now with the price of gas, we are not seeing the benefits as the prices are almost equal. But the cheapest Canadian gas prices are on highways near the border in order to stop people going to the US to buy gas.

The isue I am trying to get across on this matter is that we don't HAVE to lower gas prices, crude is becoming less and less of a resource each year as it is not an expendable resource, once it's gone, it's gone, no more oil on our planet.

Taxation is always going to be the greatest portion of gas prices, the cost of crude and the service station's markup has VERY little effect on the price of gas, that's just THIER excuse.

So instead of asking the government to lower gas prices so we can burn more of it and continue to kill ouselves as well as the environment, why not follow what is being done in Europe ad get the car manufacturers to build more efficient gas burning cars. We would then require less gas and would lower HC and CO emmissions at the same time.

Controlling the price is simply an answer that hapls the symptom, not the cause.

Of course our politiians already know this but fail to act because they aren't being pushed to act accordingly. They aren't really that blind that they don't know what other countries are doing are they? The reason they don't act on THIS as a viable solution is because they rely on these companies for campaign money and government support.
They simply won't bite the hand that feeds them despite the people that voted for them. They are saying F-U to the citizens and simply protecting thier OWN interests.

Just something to consider before you vote, as this is living proof right across our continent that our politicians blantantly lie to us and are in it for themselves, not those who elect them.

by oz_media

Selling at $0.90 cents per litre, gas stations in BC average 4 -6 cents per litre.

The majority of the cost is tax, crude equaqtes to a very small portion of the cost, (i think it's less than 14 cents/litre).

Now currently our PM is standing on an issue to reduce government taxes by a few pennies perlitre to ease the price, this is absolute CRAP though.

WHy doesn't our government fall into suit with European governments who demand car manufacturers make more fuel efficient cars? Now although the myth is that cars get better fuel efficiency than before, this IS a myth. Reduced gas flow is a result of smaller engines, they are not more efficient than the big V8's of the 60's and 70's though. They waste a TONNE of the energy by running hot and dispersing fuel energy as heat instead of torque. Cars nowdays are not what people think they are, they could be far more efifcient as Europeans now demand from manufacturers. In North America, we have less restrictions and requirement fromcar manufacturers, therefore the same model car in Europe will be more fuel efficient than one shipped to Canada or the US.

So instead of saving me 4cents at the pump, demand more efficient standards from manufacturers and that will equate to a much better savings at the pump, as well as a MAJOR reduction in hydrocarbons and CO emissions.

by jamesrl

Not sure that the European standards are all that different.

The main difference is that Europeans have been paying much more for gas than North Americans for a long time, so the consumer there demand smaller more efficient vehicles. The average european drives less as well.

California's pollution controls are more stringent than Europe's. I know one of the barriers to more diesel vehicles in North America is the upcoming pollution standards (2006?)will be very diffciult for diesel manufacturers to meet.

Lets face it. Many people in North America drive more vehicle than the need - Large SUVs etc. There are fuel efficiency guidelines (CAFE), but you can't force people into smaller cars. At highway speeds a significant portion of energy is expended in overcoming wind resistance - and though you can tweak it and tweak it, the design of a larger vehicle can only overcome so much in terms of wind resistance.

Not sure I agree with your comments on 73' Cudas and fuel efficiency. I know that my dad's 74 full size Pontiac(Canadian specific model name) got less that 20 MPG(Imperial Gallon, bigger than US) while my current Intrepid, which is pretty close in terms of interior room, gets closer to 30.

I don't disagree that modern engines run hotter, but fuel efficiencies ultimate measure is miles per gallon. Period. Todays minivans get better MPG than yesterdays station wagons. Today's Honda Civics get better mileage than the Civis of 20 years ago.

James

by oz_media

Again someone who has fallen fr the falicy that more mileage that a 73 means more efficiency.

This is something I do unserstand wuite well. I am an Interprovincially certified mechanic, member of the Sociarty of Automotive Engineers (SAE, the auto regulator) and am Canada Air Care certified. I have seen R&D plants, have met and have spoken with the engineers of new products (Prowler and the PT Cruiser), I am definitely qualified to offer opinion here andunderstand potential energy of gasolne quite well.

The issue is NOT how many MPG you get, you could be getting neary DOUBLE form the same car.

Heat is energy, increased heat means MORE of the fuels potential energy is lost before it gets to the wheels. Lower compression means that fuel is burned colder, therefore unleashing less of the fuels potential energy and that's why there are secondary burns in automobiles, to reduce emissions, not make the car more efficient.

The body is aluminum to reduce cost, weight and offer those so called 'impact/crumple zones'. THis creates more twist in the body under torque and therefore potential energy of fuel is wated by the body's flexing and absorbtion. Just like a street racing bike is extremely rigid and unflexable, the energy created by pushing the pedals is delivered stright to the wheels, creatig a more efficient forward peddling motion.

A mountain bike is loaded with springs and shocks to absorb shock, this make for more work when riding and as a street bike, a mountain bike is a terrible choice as it is designed to flex and absorb energy, not get it to the wheels.

SO cars today have MANY design and compnent flaws that reduce the amount of energy created by the fuel that is actually delivered to the wheels. Meaning you press on the pedal more and use mroe gas to get from A to B than you need to.

by oz_media

Demand and a complete roduct change would instantly drop the price of such cars to an affordable level. When they can make more from a gas car, why seel better for less?

Now what I was saying (yes alternate fuels are the ideal) is that GAS cars are not as efficient as they coule be. THey do NOT generate the same amount of power from the fuel as they used to due to inefficient component design and all that freakin aluminum (supposed to make the car lighter).

Even with a gas buring car,Europeans demanded better quality and efficiency, they got it. We still stand at te pumps and blame, gas stations, taxes, Saudis or whoever, why don't we act at the root of the problem, demand the government gets better restrictions on fuel efficiency for cars shipped to North America.

IT IS UP TO THE POLITICIANS TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE AND ACT ACCORDINGLY.

The problem that I see is that the politians want these company's to feed well and make as much money as posible (politicians looking out for businesses before public) as they have thier hands in the auto manufacturers and petroleum companies pockets.

BUSH for example was spoon fed to become a high profile oil tycoon, now even though he failed somewhat miserably in his OIL ventures, he still has his hand in thier pockets.

Is it so hard to see that he is looking out for them and himself before the people of America? To me it's black and white, no reading between the lines here, you are all being scammed.

We have several petitions around here going out to Canadian politicians to push for this same issue, yet our governmet is only reluctant because of the percebtage of GAS that is tax money, not that they are fed by the petroleum and auto workers unions.

It is wrong and we can either sit by idly as we use up the world's oil and pollute our environment at the highest cost ever, or we can speak out as citizens in democratic nations and demand our politicians act on behalf of the people instead of the companies that got them into office.

by jimhm

Why bring Bush - he is only a stock holder as are millions of other Americans and others around the world. So why bring Bush into it, they don't own an oil company.

BP purcahses somewhere around 80% of its crude from Middle east - Exxon another large purchaser of Middle east oil - Sunoco and Amoco purchase less than 5% ...

So again you want government to mandate it - well gee it worked according to you so well. The reason the power is less and miles per gallon is less - is because of Government - mandating clearing buring engines - less exhaust - cleaner air - Which the engine now runs compressors - vaccum chambers - computers -

Hum - less see can socialism ever produce what it set out to do - NOPE - Never works. Could a Free Market do it ... Yep. How, don't buy a car that gets less than 40 MPG's - guess what - ever manufacture would be putting them out, and higher. Someone puts out a low price dul-fuel everyone would buy one - and that would drive the market..

Socialism Fails - Communism Fails - Free Markets work ... Gee theres that word again - FREE - as in the first four letters of FREEDOM...

by oz_media

Try and actually understand a post for just ONCE I don't mean always but just ONCE for god's sake.

GWB founded Arbusto Energy, Inc., with $20,000 of his own money.
The company foundered in the early 1980s when oil prices dropped, his father was VP.
The 50 investors, who were "mainly friends of my uncle" in GWB's own words, put in $4.7 million and lost most of it. GWB claims that investors "did pretty good," but Bush family friend Russell Reynolds told the Dallas Morning News: "The bottom line was there were problems, and it didn't work out very well. I think we got maybe 20 cents on the dollar."

As Arbusto neared collapse, Spectrum 7 Energy Corporation bought it in September 1984. Despite his poor track record, the owners made GWB the PRESIDENT (not share holder Jim, President) and gave him 13.6% of the parent company's stock.

Within two years of purchasing Arbusto and making GWB president, Spectrum 7 was itself in trouble; it lost $400,000 in its last 6 months of operation. That ended in 1986, when Harken Energy Corporation bought Spectrum 7's 180-well operation.

GWB was given $227,000 worth of Harken stock, and a lot more. He was named to the board of directors, made $80,000 to $100,000 a year well into the 1990s as a "consultant" to Harken, and was allowed to buy Harken stock at 40% below face value.

So this should clear up the issue that GWB was no more than a mere investor, he was the president, and later appointed to the board of directors at Harken even though his first attempts failed.

He comes from a VERY wealthy background, has received the highest quality edication that money can buy in America and yet claime to be 'one of the people' (wel yes I suppose, two arms, two legs but that's about it).

Answr, to your question, WHY bring BUSH into it, because HE could make a differenceyet his supporters and friends are in the business of selling petroleum so it is not in his better interests if he wishes to keep his friends although it is in the better interests of Americans.

Now, I just KNEW someone would say that the greater MPHG means cars are more fuel efficient, which is common and expected.

Certainly these newer cars go farther per tank of gas than the old V-8 muscle cars did. Yes there is the pathetic California air care act of 1979 (I think it was '79, off the top of my head). Neither of these are accurate when speaking of fuel efficiency. More air is forced into the injectors which reduces the Hydrocarbon emissions while increasing the more dangerous CO emissions.
The other main air control system is designed to create a thorough BURN of unburned fuel, thus again reducing the not so harmful hydrocarbons. Hydrocarbons have not proven to bee very harmful to our atmosphere as they are broken down at high alittude, whereas CO is not.

So air care really does nothing other than create work and HUGE profits for guys like myself who are aircare certified to repair failed vehicles. The Califormia air care act was passed long before much of todays knowledge was available and really doen't help much other than to reduce VISIBLE low level hydrocarbons that are viewed as smog. The air LOOKS cleaner down here so it must be up there theory.

WHen I say more fuel efficient vehicle I am not referring to alternate fuels or dual fuel vehicle at all. In Europe, auto manufacturers now build cars with MUCH better fuel 'efficiency' than they do here. This has nothing to do with MPG. As a car gets smaller and lighter of course MPG will increase, the efficiency in which it burns the fuel does not.

Cars today are far less fuel efficiet than a car in the 60's and 70's for example.

Lets look at this on very basic terms:

Gas contains energy, this energy is used to create horsepower and torque to propell the car.
In the 70's engines were heavy, and cars weighed more, the ability for a car to burn a gallon of gas per nile was deemed a good thing.

With todays aluminum blocks and aluminum bodies, the ability to drive a car for 40Miles on one gallon is NOT a good thing. These cars COULD be getting 60MPG if they were burning fuel more efficiently.

Whereas a '69 V-8 would burn a gallon of gas and generate a great deal of horsepower to the wheels, todays cars burn a gallon of gas and much of the fuels internal ebergy is wasted in the form of heat smaller high RPM engines that emit more heat than an Iron Block engine). More gas is wasted, not emissions,but the actual harnessing of horsepower from the potential energy of the fuel. Because of this, our cars generate less horsepower per litre of fuel. The costs for manufacturing are lower though and the car is lighter, so lower MPG stats re reported which is the main selling point behind a compact car. They don't even give you a real spare tire anymore, no not because of trunk space, but wieght reduction that may offer a .1 mpg increase in mileage and sell more cars than the competition.

They are not interested in fuel efficiency, or the emissions and thier harms, they are interested in selling cars. This is capitalism at it's best, deceive the public but it doesn't matter because you make more money from them.

SO inclosing Jim, GWB DID own an oil company, his father was VP, his main campaign supporters were oil barons, he has an extremely high level of education and grew up in a golden world surrounded by capitalist greed, not the down home 'guy next door' he tries to be. I am here for the people and all that crap, well he single handedly just sent how many of the people he supports to die in a premature and unwarranted invasion, but that's another story as you know.

So BUSH is all for OIl he grew up around it, was probably babysat by it and thrives upon oil companies doing well. THAT's why he came into it.

Cars are NOT as fuel efficient as they used to be, despite increased MPG staistics.

In Europe, the leaders of several countries demanded that auto manufacturers improve fuel efficiency of their vehicles and they have. Less smog, less gas burned, better mileage etc.

In Canada, they are talking about knowcking a few cents per litre of the government's taxation on fuel. This does nothing to increase fuel economy, reduce the consumption of our netural (yet not expendable) resources, nor does it help the environment. Increased efficiency DOES all of the above.

Well there are two countries who don't want citizens to see this or request it from Ato manufacturers.

Canada: Taxes accrued from gas are fantastic, even dropping a few pennies per litre would still be bringing in millions if not billions each year.
Reducing fuel consumption doesn't help the government collect taxes.

US: GWB Is in favour of his family and friends who are in the oil business. His supporters are oil companies and car manufacturers. America's auot industry has been nurting for a long time now and couldn't afford to be competetive if forced to build better cars, at least not with the same margins they see now.

So if Canada and the US gets it's ass in gear and FORCES these men to comply, manufacturers will build more efficient cars, pollution is reduced, we get less headaches when in the city, we pay less per year for gas and everyone wins. Except BUSH for pissing off the oil companies that rely on him for protection from the pubic. The auto manufacturers who build batter cars for lower profits and the oil companies who are selling less oil, eaarning lower profits and possibly cutting off GWB's support which may in turn cause him to lose the upcoming election.

SO NO jim, cars aren't more efficient, you are just lead to believe they are by the same people that sell and put fuel in them.

by jimhm

Still doesn't say why you drag Bush in - Why not the Rocketfellas - or any of the other true American Icon's that made billion in Oil.

Your just a Bush hater and no matter what - you try to slam him... and when someone calls you on it you whine like a baby and get mad..

Oooh you know why - Bush is Hitler reborn - You know why - Bush invaded Irag - Wa Wa - Bush Bush - I am a Canadian and can't vote for an American leader - Wa Wa - I will tell lies about him to and get people to believe it ... Wa Wa - People don't believe me - Wa Wa...

Your wasting your breat Ozzie Osborn - you reason of bring Bush into the discussion is to attempt to tell more lies...

by thechas

From a number of recent news articles, here in the US Midwest, the typical filling station has a maximum gross margin of 10 cents per gallon of gas.

From that 10 cents, they need to pay for employees, leasing the station and the "brand" name. Along with all the other "normal" expenses of running a business.

So, for most stations that sell primarily fuel, the bulk of the profits come from the sale of food and goods.

Back before the oil crisis of the mid 1970's, when service stations were "true" service stations, the primary business income and profit came from repairing cars.

The sale of motor fuel has always been a "loss-leader" for the retailer.
It is the method to bring you in the door so they can sell you the higher profit goods and services.

The profit areas for oil and gas are:
Futures market.
Production, drilling.
Refining.
Distribution.

Chas

by sullyman

The same pricipal is used in the large movie theatre chains. I once read an article that stated that Famous Players lost 35 MILLION on the movie and admission side of the business, but netted 150 MILLION profit on the confection side of the business.......

by oz_media

Other factors that allow Gas stations to charge high prices are mainly the fact that they are considered a convenience store. Just like 7-11 or AMPM, they CAn charge more becaus ethey are convenient. People NEED food, drinks, cigarrettes etc while on the road. Not many people would drive across to the Safeway grocery store to save 30 cents on a bottle of pop, the convenience of ONE stop allows higher prices to be accepted by most.

by jardinier

"Back before the oil crisis of the mid 1970's, when service stations were "true" service stations, the primary business income and profit came from repairing cars."

I told the wife of the owner of the service station, the responses to this discussion. She said her husband had owned service stations for 20 years, and agreed that petrol had always been only an excuse to attract customers to spend money on other services. In earlier times that was, as you say, mechanical work.

by oz_media

What lies are you referring to?

Is it the facts regarding his involvement with oil companies? The fact that he was arrested for drunk driving yet said he wasn't? Was it his cocaine abuse that he denied? Who's lying to you Jim, some guy on TR (Who cares) or your president?

I have no reason to discount Bush or any of his actions unless he gives me a reaon. I didn't just wake up and decide to not trust him. He has the body language of a liar, the inflections of insecurity and doesn't pass ANY of the visual tests for truth.

He then has scandalous dirt dug up from every corner of the globe and blatantly side steps or denies issues outright. What a leader, of a slug colony maybe, leading you all to the big box of slug bait.

GEB was brought in to the picture as he is your CURRENT leader, not a Rockerfeller, not Daddy Warbuck, he's your president elect. HE is responsible for what is going on, HE is responsible for creating the mass hatred against America, HE s responsible for placing you in harms way.

Why would you ignore such idiocy by a president who's MAIN job is to work for the people? Why let him use his personal interests and gains to place YOU in harms way?

HE is responsible, it's about time someone held HIM accountable.

by jamesrl

You want to talk about fuel efficiency of engines. But an engine does no bloody good unless its packaged with wheels and a body.

When I talk about fuel efficieny, I am talking cars. And thats what matters to drivers. At the end of the day, MPG represents a number that has an impact on how much gasoline I need to buy to drive a certain distance.

An engine on a stand does no valuable work.

James

by oz_media

You seem to be confusing fuel efficiency and economy.

We are not talking about an engine on a stand, if it was it would be more efficient. The car ityself is ppoorly engineered and therefore doen NOT get the feul efficiency it COULD be getting, same car, same motor.

The auto manufacturers have realized that fuel economy is not a selling point and that a simple increase in MPG is a main selling point. So what if YOUR car could go 60 mpg instead of 40? It can.

What if you paid less in gas because you needed to refuel less often? You COULD.

And that's my point, what we THINK are better cars are simply better looking numbers. You should know that SOME Pentium 4 1,5 Mhz PC's are faster than others, why? They are both P4's? They both display the same speed?

Your car is getting good mileage but wasting the fuel it uses to get that far. A more efficient car would get you farther still, how can 40MPG be considered a GOOD number if the car COULD go 60MPG? If you want to spend less in gas, you CAN without the price of crude being owered, gas taxes being lowered, stations lowering prices or anything, you could smply have a Ford Tarus that goes farther than a FORD Taurus goes today.

You will get better mileage as a result of fuel efficiency, no super fuels, no engines on stands but production cars in Europe that do better than the same production cars in North America.

How is that not something to persue?

I know we oftencomplain if we buy something that turns out to be a cheap knockoff, substandard product to another. WHy do we ignore this when buying a car? Would you not want the best value for money you could get? Would your car not be MUCH better if increased fuel efficiency meant that James could drive father per tank of gas?

Why are we missing out in this and Europeans are doing something about it? Again, same car, same model, just better than yours.

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