Privacy under attack, but does anybody care?

don't upset me terribly, but you hit on the one that does. [b]My[/b] telephone (landline or cell)is for [b]my[/b] convenience, not anyone else's.

I'm thinking of getting a 900 number ($9.99 per minute, 3 minute minimum). Then if anyone wants to talk to me, be my guest :)

[added: I'm not sure we can do much to control [b]what[/b] is found out about us, but perhaps we can enact heavy penalties for when incorrect information is used against us.]

Havign run and designed a few large call centers, I know about number farming and data mining well.

[i]Shoot, I didn't think about it. But, as an example. If you call for pizza on your cell phone. Your unlisted number is no longer unknown. There are brokers who buy and sell those types of records.[/i]

That's been going on for decades. It's not new at all. Your phone number isn't worth much on it's own though.

I've bought and sold hundreds of thousands of numbers and they are not too expensive at all, but a great way to make your money back after calling a list for three weeks, but

The data that accompanies it is worth money though, th edemographics, age, number of family members etc.

This is all added to master lists when you drop your business card in those draws at seminars and trade shows, when you enter raffles at fairs, even the phone company sels your number. You can cal a locval agent and buy a list of numbers, along with a lot of other data that accompanies it.

This is nothing new though, they have always done this. Some companies will protect your privacy, and will clearly state so, others will not.

Did you know the local utilities company also sells your address, name and number? Always have done.

The thing that's amusing is how paranoid most Americans are of privacy, it's alomost like they are FINALLY allowed to find out that they haven't been living in a protective bubble and that the rest of the world has been watching on for centuries now. All these assurances of patriotism, personal security, safety, power and pride are now staring to come to the surface as being no different than what other nations have always had.

Oh well, someone's got to let the cat out of the bag sooner or later. Many orther countries have far more real freedom and personal privacy than found in the USA, you'll see it soon enough Im sure.

Canada heavily protects personal privacy and human rights (not sayin perfect, but better), a lot more than they do defending corporations that fund the government, unlike the USA.

If I get a call that comes up "unknown", or something like that, I answer by stating clearly that "I do not accept calls on this phone that have the return number blocked, thank you." and then I hang up without checking to see who it is.

This has burned the EX more than once when she would use the block feature to call from one of her many boyfriends places. Don't want me to know the number, then don't call from it. :D

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15221100/[/url]

I think this article is actually as good as the first one, which is really blowing my mind. I usually consider MSNBC as biased in the way it reports, but these articles are based on an online survey they did. I actually participated in that survey, and you could tell they were trying to get an honest opinion of what Americans actually thought. They also note in the article that the way some of the questions were asked is most likely why they received the response that they did.

dan

a lot of blah and blah. reading it hurt my eyes, I had too take an OHS break.

And I pretty much feel the same. I don't give a crap what you know really, you never know what I don't want you to know. I lived here fr nearly 15 years with a creative 'profile'.

I was legally in the country, was legally in teh UK, was legally working and paying taxes in both, but neither knew anything about where I was or what I was working on at any given time. Music income was not paid to a personal account or an account that had any relation to me, nothing in my name at all...not even a drivers license , library card or checkbook in my name.

I simply disappeared....legally (if there is such a thing).

For the last 4 years I have been a little more rooted than before, a little more active in the community and province, have accounts in my own name, etc.

I never hear from a telemarketer, only companies I deal with that have the odd offer or something. I that's why I don't get that feeling of intrusion, I don't get SPAM, well a couple a day at most maybe (<10 week), but again it's nothing intrusive. Canadian privacy laws are a lot tighter than US also, US laws are mroe focused towards not restricting business or corporate growth. This could be due to the many corporations that suport and influence politics. Our Politicians are sponsored by Clucky's Chicken Hut and the Tandoori Hut for Spicy Battered Women.

We too are bought and sold like whores. Yet, with respect to call centers etc., we have had DNC lists for some time and they do respect removal requests. You can also obtain a list of any information the CRTC is allowing sharing of by a simple request by email (if you can find the tiny link on their website). All 'above board' call centers use only CRTC approved information.

I am not saying we have complete privacy by any stretch of the word!
But it has been proven over time that the Canadian government is far more focused towards protecting personal rights than supporting business. Maybe that's one positive thing about a more centered or left wing government.

In the end though, I don't really try to hide tracks anymore, but I don't really mind the information that they do have on me anyway.

you find it normal that next time you go to a shop they say: well mr x, you normally buy product XYZ but this ABC is so much better. or you happened to go and visit Indonesia and suddenly you have to explain what you did there, whom you met, etc... Haven't you noticed that the big fish usually have people that do this for them? It's exactly the small fish that gets eaten. Time to wake up and have a critical eye on this.

Coming from a family that fled Stalin's USSR, I consider the losses of my privacy and freedoms in the past 5 years to be a bigger threat to my safety than terrorist bombs. Just as a side note, my grandparents who risked life and limb to leave USSR, have now left the USA because they no longer felt safe from our government. They are WWII decorated veterans, never got so much as a parking ticket, and never uttered a foul word against anyone or anything. Their last words when I said I was not going with them..."They will come for you some day"

...but when you have a president who suspends chunks of it when they become inconvenient, of what use is a constitution, anyway?

...there seems to be more and more of this "well if I'm not doing anything wrong, why should I care?" mentality... well at least until they wind up in Guantanamo. All in the name of safety................

For me, I would rather live free and die young by a terrorists bomb than live under people watching over me or analyzing my behaviour or shopping trends. At least then my life could be chalked up as a happy one, not burdened by fear of any government harassing me or ruining my life. Its a shame others don't feel the same way.

"Save me! Save me! The sky is falling!"

Sounds like they get pretty ruthless down there still. I have had a total of mayve 5 calls for sales related isues on my cell in over 10 years, that's no exaggeration. Those calls were also from companies I conduct business with.

First of all, [b][u]How to reduce the number of calls you get.[/u][/b]
1)[b]ANSWER THE DAMN PHONE![/b] If you don't, your number is recycled in the same list and the PD will automatically call you at a different time tomorrow. After X number of calls with no answer, your number is tried at random for as long as the list is run (often two to three weeks per shift). That makes for a lot of annoying calls and you didn't even get a deal on anything!LOL :)

2) [b]BE POLITE![/b]These guys have you nailed, pi$$ them off,call the, losers etc. and you will may see your number entered as a redial on one ring no answer, then of course a hang up, no matter how many times you answer. That dialler can call you endlessly remember it doesn't sleep.
POlitely ask for information and ask that your number is removed from the list. You'll reply if you find the information suitable. They will almost always remove you right away, from their list anyway. Once thta list is sold, your number is no longer there fo the next company. It takes while but works well.

Cell phones, almost any call center here that recognizes a cell number would remove it instantly, especially if they accidentally call and then find out.

As for you actually believing you will be the only one able to use your leased two-way communications system, give your head a shake! Why not just have your Telco set your phone for outbound calls only?

Another good one is where many providers will offer a security service. People calling will only get through after entering YOUR security code. Friends, family, spouse etc. have the code, nobody else gets through, no rings, no leased call display needed.

"Uh, it's business that they have no idea of whether I want it or not. If I need a product or service, I will actively seek it out."

So you are then fully aware of every savings, product and offer available to mankind and have decided what you do and do not need? Well done, you are the first to ever accomplish such a feat.

So for instance, the most active marketing in telemarketing has been long distance and local phone services. When US telephone monopolies were deregulated, you apprently already knew exactly who had the best offer, who's service suited your needs best and also feel that they have no idea that it is a product you use? You do know there are well over 300 telcos in the US! If you have a number, you use the product. Just one example, there are dozens of others.

Think about it, at approximately $1 per number, and average list sizes of 30,000 numbers being run weekly, at a cost of say $38 per seat per hour with 200 reps, do you not think that list would be targeted? Do you not think they already KNOW you conduct that business, whether you admit it to them or not. Don't you think they got that list from a source that already qualified you as a candidate?

If I wanted to help you save money on your calling services, why would I MAIL information to you without first calling you on the device I am referring to? I wouldn't go door to door selling cars, but I would drive around advertising a car dealership on one. Day in and day out, everywhere you go you look at ads, your eyes and attantion are targeted all the time whether you like it or not, yet a telephone is intrusive? Can't figure out that device but you can run a network? (Not just poking at you but that rather common mentality in general)
Once they call you, just ask for the info to be mailed, anyone with a respectable product will do so immediately (no commission).

As far as credit cards and magazines, magazine lists are provided by the publishers that you order from already. These publishers re-order services already have your information, you gave it to them yourself and wanted the product, they then sell your information to a call center to get your subscription extended or renewed. If they mailed you a renewal notice, which they often do, as well as placing cards in the magazines, it would just not be cost effective. A call is far cheaper and thus resubscribing over the phone is almost ALWAYS a better savings/package than reply cards.

You see, as this has been proven to be the most effective and inexpensive method of marketing to a broad, qualified audience, it is one of the most popular marketing channels of any company. Again, one that saves them and you money. I don' tknow if you really understand just what an effect this has on the prices you are paying now,for almost everything.

Even market surveys are less expensive than focus groups so R&D is less expensive for products too. Those survey calls are also directly saving you money in the long run.

You would be living in an expensive world without it.

Sorry for length but there's simply no logical reason for being so aggravated over the most efficient marketing system known to man. Annoyed? Inconvenienced? But to fight it and make it worse is not the answer, it is going nowhere.

The goverment did not start this collection, buisness's did. This has been going on for a very long time. It was never the intention of the goverment to use your social security in the manner that everyone use's it for now.

American citizens in their quest to get products as cheep as possible gave away their freedoms willingly to corperations. I do it also, I freely admit it. But, my point is. As a citizen you freely provide this information to someone you haven't elected, do not know, have no idea what it will be used for. To save 5 cents on a can of beans? But are unwilling to provide this type of information to your government, who you elected, who was elected to represent your best interests? There is no logic, none so ever in this.

They say the power of this information corrupts, and this is the reason the government should never have it. Ok, totally agree. Look at how this information about you is freely bought, sold, and traded by these corporations. I'll bet you that you couldn't track where and how this information was originally collected, and the hands(businesses) that it has passed through since then. In other words. Where it was collected, who received it next to pass to the next person, and who all has it? Their is no audit trail, none. No audit trail means there can be no accountability, meaning that we would never be able to track who legally/illegally passed this information on to others. Who legally/illegally has used this information in the past or who will in the future.

As much as people complain about the harvesting of phone numbers. There was accountability. The ability to perform this function was brought to the court system, the how and why this information was collected required accountability on the governments part to the court system. There had been accountability in that the various legislative offices had been informed. Maybe not to the extent that everyone wanted, but a notification had been made.

There is accountability when the government needs this information. This information was to be used for a specific purpose, and not a general data collection as occurs with businesses to shift and interpret as the business in possession see's fit.

I can not say it enough. There is no logic with regard to the stance people take with regard to the government having this information, when I believe much worse occurs already with information we have freely given.

Dan

Dan is right about privacy not being guaranteed in the contitution. And don't plan on privacy becoming an ammendment anytime soon either. Far too much money in it, so look up and smile at those satellites the next time you step outside.

And the courts uphold the constitution which requires an amendment to change. When was the last time an amendment was passed? Governments may try to change the rules, and to some extent do. But, it is still within the framework of the constitution as enforced by the Supreme Court.

There was an interesting article concerning how supreme court justices have ruled with regard to who appointed them. Just because they are appointed by a a Republican, does not guarantee they they vote conservatory. In most case's, the justice's have been pretty middle of the road in their rulings. Can't remember where I seen this article, but it was pretty interesting. With regard to privacy issues, and the invasion of. Or the loss of civil liberties. These case's may take forever to end up in the supreme court, but they do. And this is where the final decision is made if the justice's feel that the original intent of the constitution is being questioned or bypassed.

Business on the other hand, have much less control over them. No oversight committees. No balancing governing bodies that oversee what they do. Unless you get a whistle blower, or they do something stupid. They have no one watching over their shoulder as closely or carefully as the goverment does.

How many citizen groups watch individual buisness's like they do the goverment? How many citizen groups pour over every document that a buisness has like they do the goverments.

Dan