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Privacy under attack, but does anybody care?

By DanLM ·
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15221095/

This is an excellent article, even if it appears on www.msnbc.com. Lol, this article highlights how many ways the privacy of Americans has been lost and how much we are willing to give it up for a few conveniencies.

Shoot, I didn't think about it. But, as an example. If you call for pizza on your cell phone. Your unlisted number is no longer unknown. There are brokers who buy and sell those types of records.

This article also address's alot of the concerns that I have seen posted here. The mining of phone numbers by the government. But, when you read this full article. And all of the examples how much worse is occurring by various businesses. It really makes you wonder who is the worse culprit for taking away our privacy.

Read this article, no matter what your thoughts on the government data mining or other goverment activities. I think you will find some very interesting things in this article that I beleive will make you look over your shoulder more often then you do now. And not at the goverment, but at everyone.

And this article made a point of stating. No where in the constitution is privacy guaranteed. I found that really interesting.

Dan

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Many privacy issues

by TonytheTiger In reply to Privacy under attack, but ...

don't upset me terribly, but you hit on the one that does. My telephone (landline or cell)is for my convenience, not anyone else's.

I'm thinking of getting a 900 number ($9.99 per minute, 3 minute minimum). Then if anyone wants to talk to me, be my guest :)

[added: I'm not sure we can do much to control what is found out about us, but perhaps we can enact heavy penalties for when incorrect information is used against us.]

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Do you conduct business on the phone?

by Oz_Media In reply to Many privacy issues

Other companies do too. In fact it is the most effective marketing tool available.

Now comes the age old and pathetic argument that you conduct business at work and don't call people at home.

Telemarketing calls at your home are for residentally focused sales, would you rather these people conducted business and offered you personal advantages, savings, products for your home, while you are at work?

Of course not! If they did, then the argument is they call you at work instead of at home.

Face it YOU conduct business, including cold calls if you are in ANY form of sales or product marketing no matter how well established our business.

It's always the people who don't realize/understand how directly relational sales are to lower prices and greater competition that are complaining about salespeople.

People ***** and whine when prices are too high, then when companies find more effective and cost efficient ways of conducting busienss, people ***** and whine about that too.

Would you rather they had people come around and knock your door instead? Can you even begin to imagine how much more thier products would cost?

Long distance companies bugging you? Who wins? YOU do, due to deregulation these companies are now saving YOU money. Even the local providers have incredibly low rates, WHY? Because they are trying to compete with the other companies who deregulated them.

You win again.

In that respect, if someone wants to call me at home and offer to save me money on something I already buy, please do.

Would you rather pay $2.50 again to call long distance? Forget calls form so many companies and instead pay ridiculous costs? No.

Should these people offer to save you money while you are at work instead? Is it not more appropriate to contact you in your home?

My gawd, people come up with the most retarded complaints sometimes, with absolutely no thought of the alternatives.

You are better off and you have a greater market advantage due to these horribly useless people who conduct residential business while you are in your residence.

How stupid!
"My telephone (landline or cell)is for my convenience, not anyone else's."
Do you have your ringer turned off? Why not?
Don't want anyone calling you? Turn off the ringer. When you lease a telecommunications system, you are thus opening yourself up to people also calling you.

Next time, thank them instead, they are doing you a favour whether you think so or not.

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ya know, I don't argue your point

by DanLM In reply to Do you conduct business o ...

But people do not realize how much information is out there about them because they have made that choice.

They ***** and moan about the government, but look at that article. Look at how much information is really floating around. And your point about savings and such. Yea, that's right. But, how many of these people are selling that information to others, then to others, then to others?

****, I really don't give a chit. Come find me, I'll just change my number or turn off the phone. That's why I have caller id. But, I think. And this is my personal opinion only. That people have no right to complain when the government representatives, who they voted into office because they felt these people would represent their best intrests, decides based on what they conceive as threats to yours and my(the people who voted them into office) security want to tap into some of this information that every john, ****, and freaken harry already have.

But, then again. I'll get flamed, and again. I really don't give a chit. Because, like I said. It's only my opinion. And I do jump on the savings with a little loss of privacy as part of the price. Because, I just am not worried about it.

How can anyone, and I mean anyone argue that it's ok for all these business that buy and sell information about people down to almost every nitty gritty detail about a persons life have the right, when their own government doesn't to protect them. And if someone says, power corrupts and the goverment would abuse it. Bull chit, who is to say all of these buisness's arnt abusing it now. Who is to say that these people arn't using this information against us now.

It's bull ****, pure and simple bull ****.


Dan

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Fair point

by Oz_Media In reply to ya know, I don't argue yo ...

And I pretty much feel the same. I don't give a crap what you know really, you never know what I don't want you to know. I lived here fr nearly 15 years with a creative 'profile'.

I was legally in the country, was legally in teh UK, was legally working and paying taxes in both, but neither knew anything about where I was or what I was working on at any given time. Music income was not paid to a personal account or an account that had any relation to me, nothing in my name at all...not even a drivers license , library card or checkbook in my name.

I simply disappeared....legally (if there is such a thing).

For the last 4 years I have been a little more rooted than before, a little more active in the community and province, have accounts in my own name, etc.

I never hear from a telemarketer, only companies I deal with that have the odd offer or something. I that's why I don't get that feeling of intrusion, I don't get SPAM, well a couple a day at most maybe (<10 week), but again it's nothing intrusive. Canadian privacy laws are a lot tighter than US also, US laws are mroe focused towards not restricting business or corporate growth. This could be due to the many corporations that suport and influence politics. Our Politicians are sponsored by Clucky's Chicken Hut and the Tandoori Hut for Spicy Battered Women.

We too are bought and sold like whores. Yet, with respect to call centers etc., we have had DNC lists for some time and they do respect removal requests. You can also obtain a list of any information the CRTC is allowing sharing of by a simple request by email (if you can find the tiny link on their website). All 'above board' call centers use only CRTC approved information.


I am not saying we have complete privacy by any stretch of the word!
But it has been proven over time that the Canadian government is far more focused towards protecting personal rights than supporting business. Maybe that's one positive thing about a more centered or left wing government.

In the end though, I don't really try to hide tracks anymore, but I don't really mind the information that they do have on me anyway.

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Alternative

by TonytheTiger In reply to Do you conduct business o ...

Telemarketing calls at your home are for residentally focused sales, would you rather these people conducted business and offered you personal advantages, savings, products for your home, while you are at work?

I would prefer buisness solicitations come through the mail. That way I can look at what they're offering at my leisure and with no pressure. My home phone is for personal use, or business that I choose to initiate. I do get sales calls while at work... related to work... and I do not mind these calls, because I am being paid to take them.

Face it YOU conduct business, including cold calls if you are in ANY form of sales or product marketing

I'm a government employee, so I guess that means I don't :)

People ***** and whine when prices are too high, then when companies find more effective and cost efficient ways of conducting busienss, people ***** and whine about that too.

Uh, it's business that they have no idea of whether I want it or not. If I need a product or service, I will actively seek it out. Therefore no method of advertising (except a listing in the phone book, or a web page that can be found with search engines) is "more effective" to me.

Do you have your ringer turned off? Why not? Don't want anyone calling you? Turn off the ringer.

I screen calls... and block calls that do not send callerID.

When you lease a telecommunications system, you are thus opening yourself up to people also calling you.

Exactly! I leased the telecommunications system. You are apparently missing the implication of that.

I especially despise these intrusions on my cell. I had to cancel text messaging because I had to pay for the text messages whether I read them or not (over 1000 in one month!), and the sales calls use up my minutes.

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Your cell phone?

by Oz_Media In reply to Alternative

Sounds like they get pretty ruthless down there still. I have had a total of mayve 5 calls for sales related isues on my cell in over 10 years, that's no exaggeration. Those calls were also from companies I conduct business with.

First of all, How to reduce the number of calls you get.
1)ANSWER THE DAMN PHONE! If you don't, your number is recycled in the same list and the PD will automatically call you at a different time tomorrow. After X number of calls with no answer, your number is tried at random for as long as the list is run (often two to three weeks per shift). That makes for a lot of annoying calls and you didn't even get a deal on anything!LOL :)

2) BE POLITE!These guys have you nailed, pi$$ them off,call the, losers etc. and you will may see your number entered as a redial on one ring no answer, then of course a hang up, no matter how many times you answer. That dialler can call you endlessly remember it doesn't sleep.
POlitely ask for information and ask that your number is removed from the list. You'll reply if you find the information suitable. They will almost always remove you right away, from their list anyway. Once thta list is sold, your number is no longer there fo the next company. It takes while but works well.

Cell phones, almost any call center here that recognizes a cell number would remove it instantly, especially if they accidentally call and then find out.

As for you actually believing you will be the only one able to use your leased two-way communications system, give your head a shake! Why not just have your Telco set your phone for outbound calls only?

Another good one is where many providers will offer a security service. People calling will only get through after entering YOUR security code. Friends, family, spouse etc. have the code, nobody else gets through, no rings, no leased call display needed.

"Uh, it's business that they have no idea of whether I want it or not. If I need a product or service, I will actively seek it out."

So you are then fully aware of every savings, product and offer available to mankind and have decided what you do and do not need? Well done, you are the first to ever accomplish such a feat.

So for instance, the most active marketing in telemarketing has been long distance and local phone services. When US telephone monopolies were deregulated, you apprently already knew exactly who had the best offer, who's service suited your needs best and also feel that they have no idea that it is a product you use? You do know there are well over 300 telcos in the US! If you have a number, you use the product. Just one example, there are dozens of others.

Think about it, at approximately $1 per number, and average list sizes of 30,000 numbers being run weekly, at a cost of say $38 per seat per hour with 200 reps, do you not think that list would be targeted? Do you not think they already KNOW you conduct that business, whether you admit it to them or not. Don't you think they got that list from a source that already qualified you as a candidate?

If I wanted to help you save money on your calling services, why would I MAIL information to you without first calling you on the device I am referring to? I wouldn't go door to door selling cars, but I would drive around advertising a car dealership on one. Day in and day out, everywhere you go you look at ads, your eyes and attantion are targeted all the time whether you like it or not, yet a telephone is intrusive? Can't figure out that device but you can run a network? (Not just poking at you but that rather common mentality in general)
Once they call you, just ask for the info to be mailed, anyone with a respectable product will do so immediately (no commission).

As far as credit cards and magazines, magazine lists are provided by the publishers that you order from already. These publishers re-order services already have your information, you gave it to them yourself and wanted the product, they then sell your information to a call center to get your subscription extended or renewed. If they mailed you a renewal notice, which they often do, as well as placing cards in the magazines, it would just not be cost effective. A call is far cheaper and thus resubscribing over the phone is almost ALWAYS a better savings/package than reply cards.

You see, as this has been proven to be the most effective and inexpensive method of marketing to a broad, qualified audience, it is one of the most popular marketing channels of any company. Again, one that saves them and you money. I don' tknow if you really understand just what an effect this has on the prices you are paying now,for almost everything.

Even market surveys are less expensive than focus groups so R&amp is less expensive for products too. Those survey calls are also directly saving you money in the long run.

You would be living in an expensive world without it.

Sorry for length but there's simply no logical reason for being so aggravated over the most efficient marketing system known to man. Annoyed? Inconvenienced? But to fight it and make it worse is not the answer, it is going nowhere.

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No kidding

by Oz_Media In reply to Privacy under attack, but ...

Havign run and designed a few large call centers, I know about number farming and data mining well.

Shoot, I didn't think about it. But, as an example. If you call for pizza on your cell phone. Your unlisted number is no longer unknown. There are brokers who buy and sell those types of records.

That's been going on for decades. It's not new at all. Your phone number isn't worth much on it's own though.

I've bought and sold hundreds of thousands of numbers and they are not too expensive at all, but a great way to make your money back after calling a list for three weeks, but

The data that accompanies it is worth money though, th edemographics, age, number of family members etc.

This is all added to master lists when you drop your business card in those draws at seminars and trade shows, when you enter raffles at fairs, even the phone company sels your number. You can cal a locval agent and buy a list of numbers, along with a lot of other data that accompanies it.

This is nothing new though, they have always done this. Some companies will protect your privacy, and will clearly state so, others will not.

Did you know the local utilities company also sells your address, name and number? Always have done.


The thing that's amusing is how paranoid most Americans are of privacy, it's alomost like they are FINALLY allowed to find out that they haven't been living in a protective bubble and that the rest of the world has been watching on for centuries now. All these assurances of patriotism, personal security, safety, power and pride are now staring to come to the surface as being no different than what other nations have always had.

Oh well, someone's got to let the cat out of the bag sooner or later. Many orther countries have far more real freedom and personal privacy than found in the USA, you'll see it soon enough Im sure.

Canada heavily protects personal privacy and human rights (not sayin perfect, but better), a lot more than they do defending corporations that fund the government, unlike the USA.

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Thanks to caller ID

by jdclyde In reply to Privacy under attack, but ...

If I get a call that comes up "unknown", or something like that, I answer by stating clearly that "I do not accept calls on this phone that have the return number blocked, thank you." and then I hang up without checking to see who it is.

This has burned the EX more than once when she would use the block feature to call from one of her many boyfriends places. Don't want me to know the number, then don't call from it.

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On privacy, talk and actions are poles apart - follow up article.

by DanLM In reply to Privacy under attack, but ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15221100/

I think this article is actually as good as the first one, which is really blowing my mind. I usually consider MSNBC as biased in the way it reports, but these articles are based on an online survey they did. I actually participated in that survey, and you could tell they were trying to get an honest opinion of what Americans actually thought. They also note in the article that the way some of the questions were asked is most likely why they received the response that they did.


dan

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It's a boring article

by NZ_Justice In reply to Privacy under attack, but ...

a lot of blah and blah. reading it hurt my eyes, I had too take an OHS break.

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