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Should we be home work helpers?

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by pgm554

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Is it me or do I perceive more than a few tech school kiddies posting their homework on these forums in order for some one else to do it for them?

Maybe these kiddies are going to be future managers, who are practicing managerial delegation by farming their home work chores out on these tech boards.

I bring up this discussion because of a news story that came out in my local paper.The storey revolves around the local senior class of the high school(106 pupils)and 67 of them not being ableto pass the Pa state high school equivalency test.Almost 2/3's cannot pass this test.

I have seen the test and it has stuff like calculate perimeter and square feet.This is 6th grade stuff!!

So ,should we be homework helpers?

22 replies

by areets

I am a teacher at heart, so maybe that makes for my comments bias.

Give me one term and I would change that. There is no use saying, 'I told you so'. But I would gladly help.

Why not?

TSP

by oldefar

You are not the only one to perceive what seem to be requests for members of TR to do a class assignment. :)

Some of the posts are blatant requests, but many more seem to be more along the line of looking for help in understanding. I believe it was IBM that did a study some years ago to determine why the expertise of their field force was dropping while the quality of their training was going up. Turns out that the real expertise came about from the bull sessions that were common within the field force before IBM pushed for greater utilization figures. Seems the war stories being swapped at the bull sessions provided more useful knowledge than the formal classes. Today, forums like TR have become the bull sessions of yesterday.

Ido not endorse doing the work for these apprentice level posters, but I think our suggestions, our guidance, and at times our chastising do more good than harm.

Might be a lesson in this for basic education as well.

by pgm554

I agree that bull sessions are a very good way of getting needed real world experience feedback.
A lot of companies and colleges are counting on the net as a way of educating people and it a good method for research.

But ,whenever I can go to a real tech fair or seminar ,the dynamic of being there is far superior to whatever we can get on line.

I don't mind answering questions for the new techie,but when you get the obvious question like:
75 user LAN,need to connect to the internet using broadband connection.How would you do this and why?
It screams "DO MY HOMEWORK FOR ME!".

The guys over on the Novell news groups frown upon this immensly and I kind of see their point.

I am a consultant,and most of what I do is read, research, and write (I tell 'em how to do it and why).

The teachers give these assignments so that students get the experience of doing the 3 r's (research,reading,writing).
You won't get any better by having somebody else do the work for you.

by thechas

I think we need to evaluate each request for 'homework' assistance on an individual basis.

If I see a blatant "do my homework" style question or thread, I tend to not respond.

If the individual is looking for help, or has problems understanding a concept, I tend to provide links to TR articles or other web sites.

I have seen a few questions that look like the instructor has asked the student to use TR as a resource for the assignment.

Chas

by oz_media

I agree that students these days have it pretty easy with homework done on a computer. I remember coloring all those geography maps with my pencil crayons only to have some kid who's dad had a computer (they were damn expensive and only the rich had one)get a higher grade because of the pretty layout. There was a rule passed that you weren't allowed do do homework on a PC, at least you couldn't submit a printout or Graphic.
As for using a forum like Tech Republic to get answers, I think thatlike a boy scout, a tech needs to be wise in his use of resources. Even top level security techs and programmers look to TR for answers.
If the kid gets all his info on TR or a similar site and passes his classes, all the power to him.

BUT!!!
Once that same tech enters the workforce, his skills will be put to the test. If he can use resources such as this to quickly obtain useful information and apply it correctly, great.
When he tries to put that info into a board room discussion using single syllables and words out of context, he will be discovered and fired.

Welcome to the workforce son, hope you didn't miss too much of your education by surfing the net.

by jackofalltech

It's funny, but I was just thinking of starting a new thread on this very topic.

I know I'm probably in danger of being branded a crochety old fart for some of my responses but I get tired of seeing really stupid questions or requests for software that don't belong here.

What I thought TR would be was a place for experienced Techs to share information and get answers to tough problems. Instead, it seems the script kiddies are taking over. They are too lazy to do some simple research andexpect us to do all their work for them.

Probably 80% of what I know, I taught myself from books, online research and trial&error experimentation.

Ralph

by oldefar

You had books and online research resources?

When I was a kid, the books were all hand written. We had to work from memory! Skinning and tanning those hides to make vermillum so we could turn in homework was a pain as well - only rich kids had paper.

Of course, my father thought I had it easy. He used to have to his homework by carving rock tablets!!

Funny thing is, we still learn more swapping lies and war stories around the campfire, even if that campfire is now a PC.

by thechas

It's easy to say no when the questions states it is for homework, or the user asks for a lot of detailed information.

But, for some of the 'general' questions, how do you tell if it's a kid asking for homework help, or a newbie looking for a clear honest answer?

I helped one peer who had simply overlooked a setting that they should have checked.

I agree with not doing a students homework for them. That's part of why my kids are among the few at their school who can actually think on their own.

Chas

by thamer

But we have to admit,... the requester was somehow ... polite.

"Please post.."

by oz_media

That's a REALLY good one. What's next, 250 points if you can tell me where babies come from?

by thamer

Well,.. I recall we had similar discussion here in TR (http://tinyurl.com/cuga) on the subject of how computers are getting smarter (or may be new generations are getting "dumber") to a point where "we will meanwhile agree to meet them halfway."... as said by Prof. Bernard Avishai.

To answer your question ... no we shouldn't be "homework helper" unless the requester specifies that it is a homework then I think we can help by providing him/her with hints and direct links where he/she can find the answers he is looking for.

Anyhow,...

With the rapid developments on computer applications specially in the field of interactive games, I won't be surprised if we start having newly born babies with three eyes, six fingers in each hand and ... spit-brain.(Here: http://tinyurl.com/cuib )

by thamer

According to a research made by University of Rochester, they found that young adults who regularly played video games full of high-speed car chases and blazing gun battles showed better visual skills than those who did not.

Check this CNN Technology article
http://tinyurl.com/cws5

It's like some species of fish living in freshwater caves. They have been underground in the dark for so long that they've developed without eyes but more senses to navigate and find food... Its like their gene structure has modified eye cells into side sensers cells.

So I repeat,... With the rapid developments on computer applications specially in the field of interactive games, I won't be surprised if in the future, our kids will start to dvelop one more eye on the forhead and two additional fingers each in every hand.

"His father and mother rarley used their thinking brains cells. How about if I replaced those cells with ... hmmm....," The human "master" genome said.

by sullyman

As a training professional, one of the most valuable lessons I taught was about ' How to find the right information'. No one is expected to know everything about everything, but the important part is to give them the skills to FIND their answers, and for them to know where to begin looking. The Internet can be compared to TechNET, only with more valuable information :-)

Teach a student what IPX is and he will memorize it, teach a student how to find information on IPX and they are on theirway to understanding the value technology plays in their new role.

by tekichan

I agree with Sullyman. Remembering my teacher's quote of "In university, you should learn how to learn", this principle can affect one's whole life. You can try to memorize as much as you can but your brain cannot contain more than the Google can show, especially it is still growing. But students should learn how to use Google and critize information they found.

In my university, dicussion for assignment and open-book examination are very common. Don't look down these two practices, they aremuch difficult than traditional close-book ones.

by jimhm

It depends on the question - and if you are willing to share your experence with others.

I try to supply an answer with a research location and reading material that will answer their question, if they research it. If they have read and attempted to understand the problem and still can't get it ... then I will work with them to get to the answer.

Just by handing someone the solution - doesn't teach the person anything. But making them research and investigate then help them develop the answer is much more educational ..

Give a man a fish and you feed him for life - teach the man how to fish and he can feed the world.

by curlergirl

I think we as experienced techies have a responsibility to help newbies. I often wish that I had had a resource like TR when I was starting out. But I also think we need to be careful not to just spoon feed answers - as others here have said, you don't learn anything if all you're doing is memorizing a definition or following a series of steps by rote. IMHO the real failure of our educational system, and I don't think this has changed very much in the last XX number of years since I went to hs, is that we don't encourage or teach kids to read carefully and think critically. I'm not sure we can accomplish any of that here, but I think we can (and should) be telling kids who are obviously seeking help on homework that they have to do a little work on their own first and then come back for help on things they still don't understand. They'll learn a lot more by trying to do the assignment themselves first - so often it sounds to me like they haven't even done the first bit of research or attempted to do the assignment on their own - they just post to TR and wait for the answers to roll in. They're probably disappointed most of the time 'cause most people I see answering questions here don't have a lot of time for that kind of c!#@ - er - stuff.

by oz_media

You are right in saying you must learn to teach yourself. Years ago when I was studying Automotive at BCIT I learned how to teach myself how to do just about anything by utilizing my resources (there's the Boy Scout quote again).
You have to realize though that for many people, less these days and certainly less with youths, simply using the Internet and sending email is a feat and an accomplishment when it works.
If someone has the resourceful ability to identify TR as a reliable place to seek information, that should be credited in itself.
People who are able to use resources are people who will benefit a company. You don't HAVE to know Netware by rote in order to become a CNE, but a god understanding of protocols and networking will give you the information needed to resolve MOST issues.
If someone approaches me with a question, even if they copy and paste it from a school PC, I'll offer an answer (when I can of course). If this person has used TR to understand a problem, hats off to him/her.
When this person enters the job market, it will take a blind employer to not realize if the person is capable of resolving issues, either from memory due to all that fancy book learning or by using his resources in a timely and efficient manner.
I don't care where you get information, as long as you get it and it's correct. The source is for you to figure out, just make sure it's accurate or I'll hire someone else.
OM

by jackofalltech

My gripe is not with those truly seeking FURTHER understanding of something they've tried to find out, it's with those who don't even bother to use Windows Help or search the 'net for FAQs or 3rd-party help files.

I have a folder on my PC called Reference with over 4000 files, 139MB of tips, how-tos, and such on just about any PC topic from programming (6+ languages) to hardware that I've collected over the years.

Ralph

by jimhm

You will always have those lazy types mixed in with the hardworkers - that do initial research and searching for an answer - and can't find it.

But if you ask them and question them on some specific information concerning the topic - you can tellif they have read or attempted to solve the problem. If they did - I have no problems with helping them - if they didn't - they could get an incorrect answer or none at all...

Ask some specific question - if its on subnetting a network - you willfind out quickly if they know and read something about subnetting ... or they are just looking for a homework question...

by oz_media

Sounds like something well researched compiled and WORTH SHARING, nudge, nudge, say no more!

OzMedia
1-361 Keary St.
New Westminster, B.C.
Canada
V3L-3L2

by jackofalltech

I suppose I could burn copies on CD and snail-mail to people who are interested. If I get more than a few requests, I'd have to charge a couple of bucks (American Dollars for all you non-yanks).

Oz (Is that OK for short?), email me your land address and I'll send you one.

Ralph

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