General discussion


Should We Form a United Front

By info ·
I would like to start this discussion so that we can come up with a list of problems and possible solutions for them.
I live in Northern California therefore I am most familiar with what is going on here, on the other hand, what happens here first will dribble down through the US.
On one hand, in view of the major high-tech employers in the area, the cost of doing business is so high that they must either move or find other, cost reductive measures such as India. In order to try to drive down those costs, we have illegal immigration from Mexico. This is good for the low-tech sector,like the automotive and appliance sales industry. It is also great for President Bush and both parties, since less aid money is needed to support the Mexican Economy. The 15-20 billion dollars flowing out of California every year would have to come from the federal budget. This is bad for the local residents, since this money is leaving the local economy.
Since the illegals are working for menial wages,under the table, and no health insurance, this drives up our taxes, our cost of welfare, ie doing business in California. It also drives up the cost of rent, or owning as a family of four with 2 adults working can not compete with a family of 15 with 10 adults working.
It is time to wake up. Middle management and customer service jobs are going to India also. Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Sprint PCS ATT all have taken your vital data with them without your permission. So the people saying "this can not happen to us only a re-alignement of the computer industry" watch out!!!
I do believe that Governor Schwartzenegger recognizes this but powerless to do anything until the next elections in November. If you still have a job or if you want to work again in California this is the time to get involved.
In order to save our economy, we must offer some draconian cost cutting measures. The revival of prop 187 and other drastic administrative cuts are in order.
To all you lillyhearted people this might not be politically correct, but you better get out your calculators and your reading glasses now then later when you are filling out your unemployment applications.
Please tell us what do you see as solutions.

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Interesting Facts Not EDITED

by info In reply to Should We Form a United F ...

Bank of America snagged a lot of headlines when it announced this week that it will create the second-biggest U.S. bank by acquiring FleetBoston Financial for about $47 billion.
But virtually no attention was paid just days earlier when BofA said it will move more operations abroad by setting up a subsidiary in India next year to handle key tech functions, many involving sensitive customer information.
Bank of America, along with other U.S. financial-services giants, has been steadily boosting its bottom line by outsourcing costly tech work. For customers, that means an ever-increasing risk of personal data slipping beyond the bank's grasp.
BofA says there's no reason to worry and sufficient measures have been taken to protect customers' information.
But the danger of "offshoring," as I reported last week, is now readily apparent after a woman in Pakistan doing cut-rate clerical work for UCSF Medical Center threatened to post patients' confidential files on the Internet.
She backed up her threat by attaching actual UCSF files to her e-mail.
"This wasn't an isolated case," warned Catherine Graham, chief executive of CMG MedCom, a medical-transcription consulting firm in Virginia. "Once information leaves the U.S., there's no control. I can guarantee you'll see things like this happen again."
Bank of America is already among the largest clients of Infosys Technologies and Tata Consultancy Services, two of India's leading providers of offshore tech support. Both companies handle software development and system maintenance for the bank.
Now comes word that BofA will establish a 1,000-employee subsidiary in India to significantly expand its presence in the country. The bank has yet to say where the facility will be located or what specific functions it will oversee, only that it will be up and running by April.
Mary Waller, a BofA spokeswoman at the company's headquarters in Charlotte, N.C., said the Indian subsidiary will focus on "projects and processes," which she defined as involving various ways things can be improved for customers.
Waller declined to specify what sort of customer information might be available to the bank's Indian unit, but she acknowledged that work on certain processes -- streamlining loan approvals, say -- might require accessing confidential data.
This, she said, would not pose a threat to customers' privacy.
"If you're in the subsidiary, you're working for us," Waller stressed. "You're a part of the company."
Similarly, she said BofA's "strategic partners" like Infosys and Tata might have access to the bank's computer network, but they too are no threat to customers' privacy. "We absolutely hold our associates to gold standards," Waller said.
Gold standards aside, critics of offshoring would suggest that non- Americans are somehow less trustworthy than American workers, and that's why the outsourcing trend is so troubling.
This is wrong. As I've written before, bad apples can be found everywhere.
The question is not one of national trustworthiness. The question instead is whether U.S. consumers' information is equally safeguarded both at home and abroad.
The simple fact is that your records -- your credit history, financial data, medical files and all other personal information -- are far better protected within the United States than anywhere else on the planet.
A worker at an H&R Block office in New York allegedly stole financial information from dozens of clients last year and used the info to obtain credit cards and go on a shopping spree. She was caught in relatively short order and now faces numerous felony charges.
A U.S. medical transcriptionist would similarly have had the FBI knocking at her door within hours if she threatened a major medical center with extortion.
India passed a cyber-crime law several years ago, making it illegal for the first time to steal confidential information from computers. Since then, just 11 people have been charged with violating the law. Of this number, only two cases are being prosecuted.
The issue is one of enforcement. Tough U.S. laws cannot be enforced overseas, and, more often than not, legal systems abroad are not prepared (or willing) to tackle these difficult, hard-to-prove cases.
Bank of America may deny the inherent risk of outsourcing vital operations, but the bank's director of corporate information security, Rhonda MacLean, is chairing a high-powered entity called the Financial Services Technology Consortium -- a who's who of the finance world focusing on industrywide tech problems.

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While you are correct

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Should We Form a United F ...

This is nothing new as it has been happening for many years in different industries like the Car industry but instead of India they used Japan until they priced themselves out of the market.

What is currently happening in IT has been going on for several decades now and even last century Bob Dylan wrote a song about this very issue. But isn't it interesting how we just ignore these things until we are directly affected and than we scream "Blue Murder" and expect others to fix the mess that "Globalization" is making even bigger every day?


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Close but no cigar

by info In reply to While you are correct

The automotive industry is not a good example. The reason that happened was that the US carmakers did not progress with time. Drum brakes? Vega, Pinto? Maverick. It was a consumer revolt. In this situation the consumer does not even know that his or her vital records are in Bangalore. THEY THINK THEY ARE TALKING TO NEVADA!!! They are using OUR inventions, our methods, they have not improved what we had...President Bush gave away the steel industry the IT industry and others. It is a shame that your elected State and Federal Officials have done nothing about it. So let us get rid of them. Tell them, the IT industry Bust have got side effects...but I am sure you can get a job as a lobbyist for some Indian City.

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by Oz_Media In reply to Close but no cigar

Lets go liberate the world and create a truly humanitarian globe. Lets form democracies and get every other country in the world to react exactly how the USA wishes them to as they are needed. Let's create ONE nation the world of America and American 'like' people. Global free trade would benefit America, global acceptance wil help the whole world.

Oh hang on, we don't want to share our jobs with them. We are going to pretend that we have provided the world with all the technology that keeps others alive and prosperous. We are further going to pretend that they need us but we don't need them.

What the **** are you getting at?!?

You just want everything don't you.

This isn't worth anyone's time as it is simply ridiculous, old rechurned fat with no resolve. Globalization means sharing your jobs with others too, not just having them buy your wares.

What's all this crap about how you invent everything? We had that discussion while back too, it was proven that the US is not known as an inventor but more a develper of inventions, a marketer of new products etc. Generally things are invented even if in cruder forms and simply find the developmental funding from the USA.

Sure you've had some great inventions, but you have improved on more inventions by simply funding development or mass marketing.

The US cannot build a better compact car than Japan, now matter how they've tried because that is not the engineering focus of North America. It is simply not an inherited frame of mind, smaller and lighter as opposed to bigger and heavier doesn't worl here. Japan, Germany and England have different roadways and different needs, thier R&amp has always been focused solely on compact cars and gas savings.

Drum brakes were never a real issue in North America as we have long flat highways to travel on, where drums are just fine.

European and Japanese raods are windy, hilly roads where brake fade and drum contraction would not work. Since these things are welcomed imports to America, people in America have seen the advantages to compact engineering and the cost savings, price of fuel mainly, will sell more Japanese and European cars, others have already been there and done that.

I see only one resolution for this, to purchase crude from allied countries and make the north american car more acceptable as a roomy gas guzzler. Once the Cadillac is popular again, the industry will turn but not until the gas prices drop. You should just invade a Middle Eastern country and topple the guy who has cut off his oil supply from US comsumption. Then you wouldn't have to rely on people trading 'dual purpose goods'in order to give you some crude.

I know you're gonna say that's been done before but I really think it will work. That would benefit all of mankind, well the Allies, make that Noth America...nope, just America, OK well at least the corporations that sell gasoline or manufacture cars will benefit. Seeing as they take up he majority of the southern workforce, there's a chance they would favor a southern politician who would support such things.

Oh hang on m that IS happening isn't it. Damn, I'm always too late with these great ideas.

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You'been on the Tundra too long

by info In reply to Whatever

Hate to tell you, but I was born less then 30 minutes away from the founder of Intel. I also lived in Canada until I almost died of boredom. The Canadian situation is totally different. The closet is a much greater part of the house then here. Closet gays closet alcoholics, closet freaks etc... all in the privacy of your own home...Here we do not have Victorian morals...we are freer in that sense. Your muzzle is imposed by society, whereas here the muzzle is coming from ignorance. I have absolutely no problem competing on an even playing field, whereas you are well protected by all kinds of Customs Duties etc....and I know about disc brakes because I used to race with Yvon Duhamel, and Mr. Hogan etc at Sanair, Mosport, Lake of Two Mountains
And I remember the time when I had to drink a whole bottle of cognac at the border because I did not want to pay the 100% custom duty.
We DO NOT HAVE THAT...but let us get back to the matter at hand

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by Oz_Media In reply to You'been on the Tundra to ...

Where the **** did you live in Canada? Sounds like Sarnia!

Well it's not that way here at all, no closet nothing and actuallu quite he opposite.

Anyhow, your racing credentials are impressive yet irrelevant. If you do understand braking then you will see that I had a point and that's the way engineering has progressed due to fuel economy, your defence was unneccessary.

It's also nice to hear you can waste a bottle of cognac whule driving because you're too cheap to pay the duty on something you should have got at the duty free or not at all, knowing better as a Canadian that is. Perhaps why we don't shop in the US as much as we used to for this same reason also, yay NAFTA.

So there's something that you DO NO HAVE aparently and I'm sorry to hear that but your life is what you make it, if it sucks you move, as you did and you're better for it. So so you really have a point or are we going to share these pointless posts?

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by info In reply to Cool

Canada, particularly the English provinces are protected by tariffs, both by customs and by tradition...An English Victorian Closed Society. This is what I was trying to hint at politely.<G>

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An English Victorian Closed Society

by Oz_Media In reply to YES THERE IS A POINT

Sounds like Victoria.I know Victoris on south Vancouver Island USED to be quite that way but has since become a lot more liberal and aware as a result of the teens from UVIC and the violence crime rate increase, they just had to open thier eyes and see that they couldn't ignore reality anymore.

Tthat is a very blanket statement you've made and I will disagree until you can show me an example of how this applies to CANADA and not just some community where you've obviously had a bad experience. Tarrif at the border? Who cares, you have to be in the US to worry about bringing things back.

There's nothing the government does here that impedes my quality of life in anyway. I do as I please, say what I want etc. I am not repressed by tradition as you feel Canadians are and in fact don't know anyone under 75 that is. This is the most accepting, diverse and open community I've lived in, including UK, Germany, Eastern Canada and West.

In contrast, I have spent a tonne of time in the US, have run US offices for my company and have never seen such a shared single focus of patriotism in my life. In my eyes I saw, there is no flexibility in personal taste that is accepted unless it is mainsteam or media fed to society. Self expression, that differs from the norm, is frowned upon etc.

Like I said, your country works for you and Americans, nobody else.

So your point howevre reiterated is still not supported and is just a shot against Canada due to your personal experiences and not anything that holds water as a blanket statement.

In contrast I have explained exactly why I see inventing, manufacturing and compact engineering is not a strong point of the North American industry.

We have our long list of inventions too that have been bought cheap and capitalized on by the USA, Canada has been quietly inventing many of the most useful products in today's society. Did we complain when Thomas Edison bought the light bulb patent and increased the vaccuum in it? No. Inventions get better over time, who cares who improves it, uses it etc.

Your complaint was that you invent all the things that improve the world and then others capitalize on them. In actuality, it is America that's known to capitalize on others inventions.

I can start to list some if you are still unsure, but the list is long and it has been shown here before. I am not saying America doesn't invent anything, just that you're NOT the inventors of everything we rely on, Canada is just as famed as inventors of life saving and useful products, as is Germany, UK, Japan etc. I see very few Europeans complaining that you used the Howitzer to win the civil war (another recent topic), by your standards they should.

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OK my 2 cents worth on Disk Brakes

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Cool

Well any Me ch Engineer will tell you that Disk Brakes where developed by Lockheed for the aircraft industry and where not considered for the automotive industry owing to the heat build up that they suffer from while in constant use. On an aircraft where they are only used for short periods of time and then spend long periods of time unused they are ideal. Actually a properly designed drum brake is far more efficient than any disk brake and the problem of brake fade is mainly due to the fluid boiling in the brake cylinders/lines this only happens because it becomes old and attracts a lot of moisture which adversely affects the effectiveness of the brakes in the first place as well as causing rust to form on the insides of the Master/Wheel cylinders.

The build up of moisture in any hydraulic brake system is the main cause of brake failure where a Master Cylinder or wheel cylinder fails if all things remained as they where designed there would be very few of these incidents and the seals would last virtually forever if they where constantly used.

Exactly the same thing applies to the Disk Brake but with these the heat is far greater and the boiling point of the fluid is reached sooner. I think everyone's seen pictures of the long distance racing car with its disks glowing red at night as it comes into a corner that is something that you will never see with a drum setup provided it is working correctly and not like a lot of times when you see the same thing on rear brakes where the person is driving with the parking brake partly on.


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by Oz_Media In reply to OK my 2 cents worth on Di ...

When I first became an SAE member, we had to write an engineering principals test on this subject, you are right about the origins of disks and the heat's effect on the coefficient of friction.

That was why Japanses and European manufacturers were the first to introduce disks into auto's. The cars are smaller and lighter and therefore require less friction to slow or stop the car. The rotors will stay cool enough if vented and will be lighter and more economical.

This was a major problem with larger North American cars as the weight was so great that disks got too hot and the coefficient of friction drops.

When American manufacturers realized that they needed to build more economical cars, because imports were saving drivers thousands in gas each year, they tried a few hybrids with rear drum front disk, they were flops for other reasons though, body roll, weight, lack of power due to large cylinder low RPM engines, etc. Plus they made those stupid double disk rotors with the cooling vents that clog and break, whereas the Japanese used a single rotor with drilled holes and tracking grooves (like gun rifling) that help the pads to track and cool at high speeds, thus reducing noise and increasing friction.

Personally, for a heavy car I will opt for drums over disks. I've done a few old model to disk conversions and with a late 60's Parisienne, you are going to have to stop every 20 minutes to let the disks cool.

In the case of an older 4X4 I opt for disks and fuel injection conversion. (EFI for the mountains here, carbs just bog out and you stall mid-climb.)

In addition to old fluid losing viscosity, I have found a major contributor to rear wheel masters rusting is due to overheating resulting in condensation after stopping that rusts the wheel masters, usually due to an overweight car. This is practically eliminated with disks as the calipers are independant to the rotor and suffer very little from heat. Heat is dissipated by the slider bolts, anti rattle clips etc, before entering the caliper body and eventually the pistons. even at this point, the pads are staying cool and retaining the friction coefficient to properly/safely stop the car.

So with either drums or disks, lighter is better, is cheaper. Damn, you don't even get a full size spare aymore in order to save gas!

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