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software pirates in the workplace

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by justmakingit

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I had until recently held an IT postion within a small organization that contained only pirated software. Since I was the sole IT person within the organization, I confronted the director and told them that all of the software was illegal and that there would be dire consequences it was brought to the attention of Microsoft, Adobe etc. The director didn't want to hear anything about it and was told to forget about it because no one would find out. My question is this... do I, as an IT professional, have the responsibility to confront large manufacturers showing the illegal software? And does it come down on me if they are caught?

Thanks,

Dennis

133 replies

by stress junkie

If you live in the United States then certain "recent"
legislation such as the DMCA and the Patriot Act may
make you eligible to be charged with conspiracy to
commit software piracy if you don't speak out.
Additionally since you were the only IT guy at the site
you might also qualify for charges of actual piracy. And
if you don't rat out the company then you might also
be charged with implied sins of omission, something
like what Martha Stewart was recently convicted of
doing. Actually she stated to the Feds that she wasn't
guilty of a crime while in your case you are simply not
saying anything to the Feds. But if you've ever had a
girlfriend then you know that not saying anything is
the same as a lie. This whole legal situation in the
United States reminds me of when I was a pup many
decades ago we were told about the horrors of living in
the Soviet Union where neighbors and even children
had to rat out parents and neighbors or be sent to the
gulag. The same was true about the Gestapo during
Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. That's the
situation in the United States now.

Before you think about bringing this matter to the
attention of law enforcement I think you should get an
attorney to make a deal for personal immunity from
prosecution for you. And you should have tried to hide
your real name in this forum a bit better.

When I was in high school so many decades ago I had
a teacher that said that the Soviet Union was becoming
more like the United States and that the United States
was becoming more like the Soviet Union. Apparently
that trend continued all these years. Pretty soon if you
want to live in a free society you will have to move to
Russia.

by johna_smith

I think you will find that piracy, within Companies, in the UK has the following penalties;

?10,000 pound fine and upto 5 years imprisonment.
The company board or the managing directory are held responsible, each member can be fined

by jkaras

In business you have to be legit. Do you have any certs? Because if you do and your work is caught yours will get stripped and banned for life towards any test. I dont envy your position, if you rat on the boss no one will trust you, if you stay there is risk, if you leave you have to start all over. I personally would start looking for other employment if I were there it is too much liability but understand the job market these days. My room mate has illegal servers at his work that they all stress over, each take turns hiding the server when audits come around and he works for just about the largest health insurance company. It's wrong to have this practice at work but it happens more often than not. One or two daliances is one thing but an entire network? Wow, major nads, your boss really likes to live dangerously.

by makins

I have first hand experience with a BSA audit on a client of mine. More than likley, the BSA will not go after your certs but do not take solice in this because it is possible. You should instead CYA. Send an email to your boss and your bosses boss informing them of the situation. Afterall, it is your responsibility as the IT director to ensure compliance with all applicable laws. In this email, emphasize that just once copywright violation can cost their organization a $100,000 fine. Now multiply this figure times the amount of software that you need to purchase. (Nuff Said). Now save this email and their response for a rainy day. You should also put this too them in simple terms. Ask them if they would like a new lexis. Then ask them if you should go out and steel one for them. When they look at you funny, just mention that steeling software amounts to the same thing. Wrong is wrong, no matter how much spin you put on it.

by gentlerf

I might add to makins' observation that in the e-mail he might include open-source replacement deployment costs in his facts and figures to migrate away from the pirated commercial software. I agree that stealing (spelling correction) is not just against the law in its letter, but it is against most unwritten codes of social contact.

by is girl

I have only worked for one company that was diligent about making sure all software was leagal. This company has a recently aquired plant with about 25 users audited by the BSA. Each of these users shared a single copy of Windows and MS Office. The fine was 2.5 million dollars.

The aquiring company was large enough to absorb the fine and stay in busines, but a smaller company would not survive a penalty like this.

I find it's critical to present this practice as a risk to the entire business and remind Sr. Management at every opportunity (in writing if possible) that they are putting the company you work for at risk of bankruptcy.

There is a huge problem with people stealing non-tangible items like software, movies, music, etc. They seem to think that it's no huge loss to the corporation they are stealing from -- probably because they might not use the item if they had to pay for it.

by jfreedle2

The director's response would tell me that I need to tell the appropriate authorities because the director does not place any value on people's work and therefore needs to be shown the light.

by hal 9000

If you report the current situation the company very likely will end up out of business and you'll have a black mark against your name with the stamped impression of {Never to be employed anywhere again!}

I've seen a few cases of things like this where a copy of a program is installed on several computers but to date I've never seen a situation where all the software is illegal.

Col

by jimhm

Ethically you should say something to someone even hire than your director. If they dismiss you or try to force you out - those are all actionable in the USA. It's all part of the Whistle Blowers protection law.

So - I would approach the owner - or VP - or President - let your boss know that you are going that way. Play everything upfront...

If the when the defication hits the rotary occsalator - you better have on your slicker.. the director - will point his finger right at you... for installing the stuff.

CYA - Emails sent and received... if you try and no action - then you are covered. If the dismiss you - you have recourse - and I am sure MS / Adobe would pay you a few dollars as a finders fee...

But its and interesting position they put you in - You are kind of sitting in the cat birds seat... Hey - where's my good raise - Oh no money - I guess I'll call M.S. or the SPA - how about Adobe.. Oh your going to lay me off -

It will be interesting - you could just leave and find a new job ... but I think this one would be fun ...

by gralfus

Telling the boss, who probably already knew, now implicates you in his eyes if the authorities come down. Of course, he'd be the first to blame you in a legal battle, feigning technical incompetence on his own part. Do you have any documentation that says the software was already there when you were hired? If not, let it go and avoid such places in the future.

Conversely, if the authorities came for another reason, then you will be implicated by them since you are the IT guy, unless you were the one that called them.

Don't consider this legal advice, since I'm not a lawyer. And if you do decide to tell MS, be prepared to endure legal proceedings either as a witness or in a countersuit from the company you worked for. Ain't law grand?

by theboss

use an auditing software to audit all computer to find the installation dates of all pirate software..there are some program which let u do that i belive..

produce a hard copy get it approved by the ceo / directors and keep is along with the proof of ur hiring date..

if BSA busts them..ur hands are clean..

regularly email / submit to ceo's and directors stories abt compaines caught with pirate software and penalty they paid..

stress in then end of each such email.. the need to legalize software in ur organisation and rough calculations of penalty if your company is busted by BSA

keep all such emails in your record..along with replies to such emails from directors...

by mlayton

...I wrote a memo explaining the "Consequences of unlicensed software" - I think the BSA still has a lot of information on their site for something like that - it gave facts and figures (i.e. - and these numbers are made up to give you the idea - in the year 1997 95% of reports of unlicensed software were filed by disgruntled employees. The resulting fees per company were avg $500,000 and 3 years in prison for top management) or whatever. Then provide in same memo facts on what it will take to get them licensed (there are 6 computers with unlicensed powerpoint, only 2 people use it, and so X copies of office pro is $X). It wasn't on their desk 2 days before I had a PO to buy the software. In addition, I ran it by my lawyer who assured me that bringing it to the attention of the company and giving specifics on how to solve the problem relieved me legally should they be fined (they can't claim no knowledge), although you would still have to deal with the problems of certs if they DONT purchase the software.

by admin

I included a documentation trail in every related presentation and communication afer talking about it didn't help a lot. Finally, when I asked in writing for any references to software or licensing management be removed from my job description they initially said yes, but then someone must of told them removing this would be a problem... so we got up to speed after that. I was extremely nervous and uncomfortable during the whole thing. Even if you cover yourself legally the ethical problems are a nightmare.

One of the most effective things I did was showing a video from the Business Software Alliance that showed U.S. Marshalls showing up with warrants at a business. After people watched this, some started clueing in a lot better. I believe the title was "It Could Have Been So Easy"
I did it in the middle of a PowerPoint presentation that was supposed to forecast what our needs and growth would be the following year. It was pretty effective.

I got the video through the Business Software Alliance. I think it was called: "It Could Have Been So Easy".

They have a new one now though: "Software Priacy: a Costly Mistake."

http://global.bsa.org/usa/press/multimedia/

I figured that my workplace would love to put someone else down as software manager on a job description after I started to pursue anti-piracy training for the company (or fire me), but it turned out they did a complete 180 degree turnaround and started buying correct licensing after that.

Good luck to every one going through this, it's hard when you have kids and need a job.

by jsdutcher

My first IT job I had as a network Administrator was tough because of this very reason. Plus I was the only IT person in the company and everyone else (including the director) all had Master's thought they were untouchable. When the ruling came out I took it to them and told them either get licensed or else because I will not take the blame for their mistakes. Within 2 months I had the funds to purchase everything. Bottom line is this, protect outself first because I believe that most businesses will make you take the fall instead of them. MOST businesses do not care for the employee's like they use to 10,20 yrs ago.

by justmakingit

As I mentioned, I had until recently held the position, I am now in an organization that does purchase its software no matter what the cost is... especially if they need it.

Thanks again

by pr0x1

Now that you're not there, what r u gonna do?

Please tell me you aren't just going to look the other way, you're still legally tied to that organization if they are caught. So don't think this is over just yet cause you didn't CYA.

You should still, at least, CYA and send a note telling them of their issue, and even describing how to resolve it. This would at least absolve you from legal action if they are caught.

So tell me, who did you work for again?

by justmakingit

Can't post the name but I have gone through the hoops to try to get them to switch there software, using some of the suuggestions posted. I compiled a list of open source software that they could use instead i.e. open-office, linux etc. And have told them the issue at hand. I am starting my Masters so I don't need this hanging over my head. I told them that they have to comply and explained the risks. I do think they see the problem and were not really aware of the consequences. I do believe they have come around.

by anidouglas

I believe justmakingit asked for a solution from his peers, he did not ask for a potential court case and the attendant hassles.
Asking him for whom he worked is an attempt to either get him into hassle or make some money for yourself.
So tell me ARE YOU A REP OF THE SOFTWARE COMPANIES OR A BOUNTY HUNTER TRYING TO MAKE A KILLING?

by markdmac

Software piracy is costing the industry BILLIONS of dollars and causes consumer pricing to go up. Do the right thing and contact the Software & Information Industry Association's Anti Piracy Division at http://spa.org/piracy/.

If you want to be nice, you could contact your old boss and let them know when the next amnesty is first, but is sounds like they don't even WANT to be legal.

by jimhm

Don't let the SPA bs you about what the industry is losing ... MS - Multibillion dollar corporation - charging $500 plus for office Suite - but if your education you pay $125 - so where is the justification of the pricing...

Then you toss on yearly maintenance - and thats all you get for your millions is a small upgrade..

Don't let them BS - vendor ask for people to copy same with music and movies when charging so much - profits so high ... Movie XYZ turn one weekend $125 million - it only cost $45 million to make it.. Come on - how much greedy money do these fat cats want...

by dnsb

For what it's worth, if you have any copies of letters, emails, whatever that you sent to your previous boss, hang on to them. They might be all that saves you when the sh*t hits the fan. One of my co-workers was in your situation a couple of years back. After she moved to another job, she found herself being "credited" for obtaining the pirated software. All that saved her butt was the copies she saved of her correspondence with her supervisor and others about the use of pirated software. So make sure your ass is covered.

by justmakingit

The reson I left was becuase I was doing an internship with the organization, it was limited to 4 months and that was it. So, the reason I left was due to the fact that I had to leave, not necessarily because I wanted to (although I did want to because of the situation)

by tmoneil

I exprienced the same situation and it is a no-win situtation. The pirated software is indeed illegal. And with upper management turning a blind eye to the behavior, it puts you in a horrible situtation. I doubt the whistleblower laws would protect your job if you protest too much and get fired. I have worked for some real arrogant managers who will likely claim they did not know and should have been told (by you)- the typical defense these days. Good luck!

by mollenhourb9

The bigger issue is do you want to work for such a company. If they are willing to break the law on an issue such as software piracy, where else are they breaking the law.

I worked for such a company once as an accountant (I know, that's a dirty word to IT professoinals), and felt a huge sense of relief when I left. A couple of months later their "questionable practices" in other areas came out in the paper.

The long and short of it is, GET OUT NOW! You don't want to be there when it all hits the fan, and it WILL hit the fan.

by ablitz

Sorry to disagree. As a Pc support guy, I met many small organizations where the present managment was not the original who (did not) purchase the software.
So I always pointed out to the present managment what the dangers are and what actions to take in order to fix it.

by swinnicki

I never cared much about the ethics of such a situation...I knew about our company having unlicened software being used at work and wasn't in a position of responsibility where I thought it would affect me....till one day another female coworked asked me why her software had no registration number...I told her that it was unlicenced and everybody was using and it was no big deal...The same day, heck the next minute really, she ran to the managers of IT telling them about this.....She gets promoted and 6 hardworking guys including myself were fired for having the knowledge of this and not reporting it. Turns out the software WAS on the 2 of the IT managers PC's also....but did they get fired?
You bet not...they claimed they didn't know it was unlicenced...so much for Honesty in the work place! Bottom Line is either be the whistle blower or just claim you don't know a thing, but the thing you should never do is admit to your co-workers you have knowledge of such a situation and then do nothing about it.

by rlogie

If I were in your position, I'd protect myself. And here's how:

Do a Software Inventory Report advising Management of the situation in clear but non-inflammatory language. "A survey of the installed software shows X and to rationalize the situation will cost Y. This is forward for you action."

Then any inaction will be their responsibility! You clearly don?t have decision-making powers on purchases, so the level that does should be responsible if any situation comes up!

Best of luck!

by broadacres

You state that you 'HAD UNTIL RECENTLY' an IT position. This suggests you are no longer with the company. Your course of action seems clear. Blow the whistle. If you do not and the illegal software is discovered, as it probably will be, then the investigators may well trace you and come down hard. As an aside, totally unrelated to the issue at hand, I am surprised at the poor grammar, syntax and spelling throughout this thread. How some of the correspondents ever got their jobs amazes me.

by nicknielsen

Competency with the English language is not in the job description; we don't gotta no nowns & verbes, we gotta no bits & bites!

What I find truly horrendous is the alleged "IT" person who can't spell "byte."

by paul.tiffany

Having been in IT development for many years, I look back at the documentation (if any) provided by developers. Sad to say, more than 90% of it was atrocious with maybe 40% being marginally readable. It seems that IT development attracts people with low English language skills, although it has been improving gradually over the years.

by bdonahue

Well when you only need to spell "for" "while" "do" and a whole bunch of puncuation is what you think and speak for 12 hours a day... what do you expect;

end.

by hal 9000

"As an aside, totally unrelated to the issue at hand, I am surprised at the poor grammar, syntax and spelling throughout this thread. How some of the correspondents ever got their jobs amazes me."

We all work far too much with computers you can not honestly expect us to be able to spell as well can you?

After all even Microsoft calls us "Certified Partners!" Now that in itself should be a dead give away.

Col

by win0

Professional responsibility dictates that you need to Document and "formally" notify Management that the Company is in breech of Licensing Laws and could be subject to prosecution and hefty fines if audited. Place the responsibility for ensuring compliance where it belongs ! Don't turn it into a personal crusade, just give-em the facts, cover yourself, and only install licensed software !

by brichardson

One thought to further rick's excellent idea is to map out and document a plan for moving toward compliance. Make it very detailed and comprehensive. Include budget variences that may need to be approaved from the higher ups and stretch it out over a 5 year period (this takes some of the sting out of it). Indicate that (upon your hire date) you became aware of the fact that the software in use was not legitimate and that you intend to move toward compliance. Even if the boss won't sign off on it, at least it, coupled with the other documentation of correspondance with your boss, will c.y.a...as it was so adequately worded.
I offer this based on experience with walking into an organization that was "unaware" of the dire situation they were in having exceeded licensed installations and the use of "less than legitimate" software. Once the leg work was done with the planning and it was submitted in black and white, it was suddenly agreeable to the higher ups. Scary stuff but, it doesn't need to cost you your job or excessive amounts of sleep. Good luck.

by alberto.guerra

One possible alternative could consider open source software.
It is well known that this may be a good solution and that you and the company would be doing things according to law.

Think about

by teligence

Using Open Source apps brings in a whole 'nuther problem - support. More support cost money. That money is probably better spent on purchasing the "proper" product that has vendor and industry-wide support and documentation. Take for instance "OpenOffice" - I found a functional bug and it wasn't even acknowledged by the developers until MONTHS later. Since my discovery, I noted that others also found the same problem. It was almost a year before a "patch" came out that corrected it. Is this the type of support that you want to bet your business on???

Some businesses may be able to afford this "flexibility", but I would wager that most cannot.

by Member 19345100

And Microsoft has never done the same thing, I suppose, yes? If MS has something you need, and its schedule slips by a year, I assume you are okay with that, right?

The beauty of open source is that if you find a problem such as you are describing, you can fix it yourself. You have the source code. Or if that is too expensive, you can live with it. Or you can switch: you are not locked in by a vendor that wants the upgrade fees.

by hardcoredisciple

Is this a troll, the author can't seriously believe that support is an issue to a company without any licensed software, "hello, microsoft, I need some help, windows update says I have an invalid cd-key" Open source software is absolutely the answer for a company who doesn't want refuses to pay licensing fees, I think that the first step in this situation is to install Open Source solutions until the budget is in place for purchasing legitimate commercial software, thus addressing the issue and creating dialogue. If the person in question can't afford to open themselves up to being fired for bypassing management's illegal decision they certainly can't afford the legal liability that comes along with installing and supporting illegal software.

by rtg05

After attempting for a couple of years to bully or push the organization into compliancy, we tried a new approach that worked successfully.

Yes, I included all of the $$$ numbers as well as the possible prison terms for each infraction. THEN I presented the information from the perspective of 'this is only to protect the organization'.

Basically, by using this approach the responsibility was placed into Managements hands without feeling that they were being bullied into compliancy.

It is just human nature - if you feel that the decision is yours and you are informed and know that you have to make the correct decision, most will choose the high road. ;-)

by graeme

....if I turned in every business using pirated software.

Scenario 1 - 3-5 year old workstation - Most of the computers came with an operating system (and are legal) but just one productivity suite disk and anti-virus disk was bought and used all around. We just have to look the other way. We will not actively re-use a disk in a new machine - but when updates are required we insist on legal software going in place.

Scenario 2 - New - Machines getting replaced or updated. We will only sell machines with with legal OS, Productivity suite and anti-virus installed and start a software catalog and audit procedure for the company. Of course product activation makes this a lot easier to enforce! Most business owners smile and say - "about time they did that" (meaning the software vendor).

Nearly all custome written applications seem to be legal with good licensing enforcement from the original vendor.

Our approach may not be strictly legal and have many shades of gray - but in three to four years we should have everyone on track!

by realgem

If you do nothing, then you are a party to the crime. As the senior IT person, you will be accountable.

You don't have to whistle-blow to the vendors, but you should AT MINIMUM apprise your superior in writing of the situation in writing and that you are, as per his instructions, doing nothing about it.

Your boss won't like seeing this, because he will know what you're doing: shifting accountability to him. But, it looks like it's down to either him or you.

by rmennet

There really should be no need for software piracy. Many businesses buy site licenses which allow them to install as many as they need. Software that doesn't fall into this category needs to be purchased. As an IT person I don't allow this and make people buy the licensing. What they do at home I don't want to know, but when they are at work they all need to be legal. In the scenario mentioned, there is probably not much you can do about it. If you become a whistle blower you'll probably lose your job even though you are doing the right thing. I would make sure that they know that their policy is wrong and that you will not support it within your frame of reference.

by logos-systems

Have we not learned anything from corporate scandles such as Enron, etc. When are we going to learn, both personally as well as coporately that it is never right to do that which is wrong. Would you keep quite if someone stole from a family matter?

But I can tell you this, until we start taking personal responsibility for doing the right thing; not because it is easy, but becasue it is right, we will keep on reaping the effects of corporate scandles, and WE ARE PARTIALLY TO BLAME>

by bettycarden

The only way we are going to enforce software piracy is if all IT professionals make a stand. People worked hard to earn their money in developing the software and should receive their just due. Any "business" who pirates software is not a worthy business to exist in America.

by isapp

When I started working in the IT department at my company, everyone here was using pirated software. The new network administrator put an immediate stop to the practice. He had to stand toe to toe with management, and there were some shouting matches but in the end the company is now so legal that we even keep a few extra licenses on hand "just in case." We've been audited twice and sailed through the audits both times.

On the other hand, a local company was just fined $80,000 for pirated software. You never hear about these things on the news but it happens more often than you'd think.

IT managers can be held personally liable for pirated software. The sentence if the manager is found guilty includes hefty fines and jail time.

My advice would be to do the right thing, or get out now before the company is audited. You know whose head will roll if fines start getting handed out.

by armourbl

You know, that quote about evil flourishing when good men fail to act sure sounds great, but when it affects you directly it is entirely different.

We don't have all the details. How long did you work there? Why did you leave, and on what terms? Etc.

If he blows the whistle, he may be risking more than saying nothing and moving on. It doesn't make things right, but should he risk his career and well being just for justice? If he gets his certs pulled, and can't find work, who wins?

Tough spot to be in. I wish you all the luck on this one.

I don't want to switch topics here, but this brings up an interesting question. How do you all manage your licensing? How do you prefer to keep records to provide proof during an audit?

Where I work, we maintain an audit of the workstations and servers, and keep purchasing documentation and license certificates, but with a large organization, something is bound to fall throught the cracks. It is as easy as one tech installing some software, thinking there were licenses to cover it, and forgets to document the installation or whatever.

As critical as it is, there has to be a more effective way of staying in compliance from day to day.

ben

by comptech3

Granted that there are times where it is not easy to do the right thing, but it still does not change the observation about letting evil flourish.

by gawiman

You know those little greeting cards with the naked children that say something like "Love is..." and inside it says, "...when he gives you flowers on your birthday" or something like that?

Guess we need cards like that for evil. Ripping off a multi-billion dollar corporation is risky, illegal, and maybe stupid. Diverting oil-for-food funds to build palaces is evil. Stealing granny's pension with phony home repairs is evil. Blowing up buildings is evil.

Basically evil is distinguished by attack on those who cannot defend themselves.

Justmakingit got out - a good move. The next good move is to move on and forget about it. You don't work for that company anymore. If you want to join a crusade, how about fighting software patents? They'll be used to attack small developers which will result in stifling innovation.

by dr dij

I don't work for them but asap.com (software reseller) has nifty web based license manager; ferrets out all pcs anywhere in world, can re-allocate licenses; legal for audit, web based reporting, can be set to automatically buy licenses.

by armourbl

I've seen that feature on ASAP's site. Looks good, but the problem I see is if you invest so much time in their system, and their system either goes away or stops working, you are really stuck in a hard place.

What I'd like to see is something similar to what Adobe has started doing. They manage your licensing when you buy their products. You can go to them and ask for a list of all your licensed products. I still keep my own records, but it is nice to know they may defend you if you have hard time providing proof on your own.

ben

by 3500+ windows users

For us, right now, it's just folders with paid POs verses what LanDesk tells me is out there. It?s been slow getting some form of automation put in place.

by justmakingit

It was a 4 month internship. The reason I left was because it was strictly a learning process for the school I attended (co-op preogram). I guess I am now learning more than I though I would.

by hmtattrie

I love the way that every response that I have read either starts or ends with "I'm not a lawyer - but. . . " and then proceeds to explain to justmakingit why his deeds are illegal and how to "legally" protect himself.

Fact of the matter is this; anyone in this country can be sued at any time by anyone for anything and those with the deepest pockets and most talented (read most expensive) lawyers will win.

Which brings me to my next point.

The deepest pockets and most expensive lawyers belong to Microsoft. At what point in history did it become my responsibility to protect the intelectual property of the largest software company in the world? I find XP's activation scheme to be a blatant intrusion into my life, but it is Misrosoft's first real attempt to protect their own IP, rather than relying on whining psuedo lawyer wanna-be's or corporate whistle blowers. So, there's only one decision that one has to make - put up with this intrusion and use Microsoft products, or move on to some other OS. Either way, the responsibility for making sure that Microsoft's bottom line stays healthy is not up to little ol' me.

by mlayton

...if you hold any Microsoft certifications, as the agreement in part reads "(iii) you engage in misappropriation or unauthorized disclosure of any trade secret or confidential information of Microsoft (including, but not limited to, any MCP Exam materials or other Microsoft materials with respect to which you are under non-disclosure obligation), or pirate any Microsoft product, or otherwise infringe any other intellectual property right of Microsoft, or engage in any other activities prohibited by law;" - I think there is also a section on ethics... or hold a CISSP cert, which has a whole section on ethical behavior... or are a member of a professional organization which has a strict code of ethics including reporting, or at the very leastt not supporting, pirated software.

by hmtattrie

Which just goes to show what a self serving, self important bunch of crap that certifications are in the first place!

What ever does software piracy have to do with my talents as an IT pro? Does stealing a copy of Acrobat negate the fact that I know how to set up a DNS server correctly? Does having a bootleg copy of PowerPoint mean that I have somehow forgotten how to set up a WINS server?

No. It simply means that Microsoft is pissed off at me and are going to take their ball back away from me after I have jumped through almost all of the hoops that they asked me to in order to become certified. Which is why I have not bothered with all of this certification nonsense in the first place (well, at least not since Novell's third or fourth round of ever-changing CNE exams). I learned my lesson. Money spent on certifications is a waste - especially when it is used to effect behaviour outside of the realm of what you know. What's next? We dont like the content of your site, so we're going to pull your certification. Forget it folks - spend your money on something useful (like a legitimate copy of Server 2003).

by prplshroud

The gent no longer works for the firm in question.

Firstly, I agree completely with everyone who has stated that you should "Cover Your Ass". That should be your first priority. However, don't just email your old boss. Send your old boss, yourself, and maybe a higher up a certified letter. Never open the one that you send to yourself. If it ever comes to some kind of legal issues, you have the unopened certified letter that is admissible and can help you.

Secondly, if you are just really pissed at your former employer and want to stick it to them. Think about how you left the firm. Was it a bad parting of the ways (i.e. Did they fire you), a layoff, or did you leave on your own?

Maybe just you playing a little CYA will cause them to realize they should be in compliance. Maybe not. If you still know someone that works there they might be able to keep you informed.

If you do decide to be the whistle blower, consider how many people will possibly be unemployed because of your actions. The firm may be forced to have a layoff because they're paying fines and can't pay people.

Either way, what your company is doing is wrong, and they should be brought into compliance either by hook or by crook.

As long as you can show best effort on your part to attempt software license compliance, I think you'll be ok.

I'm a fellow IT guy and not a lawyer, so I'm only giving you my opinion just like everyone else.

by jthomson60016

justmakingit had already left the offending company, as noted, when he wrote his question to us all. The first thing to note is that he went to management (at least to SOME level of management) with the problem and was told to ignore it.

That should have served as clear notice that the company is unethical in its' behavior. You have to wonder in what other areas they act the same way, and how long until they begin to treat the employee unethically. Personally, I would take that as a sign to leave at once, before the company starts to screw me.

On the way out, I would take the actions mentioned in all of the CYA responses, up to and including the certified letters. I would also make sure that my complaints were heard at the highest levels of management, addressing copies to the President, the CEO or the Chairman of the Board, if there is a board. You don't know how high up the ladder the rot extends, and going to the top will ensure you either tell the head guy or bypass the rotten ones.

When you write your letters, name names, give dates and places, include info from the BSA about the legal consequences, and document the business case for getting legal in precise $ terms.

When you first try to rectify the situation and run into a low level manager telling you to ignore things, get your stuff together, then go progressively up the ladder to his boss. If no joy, go to the next rung, and keep going until you hit the top. If even the ultimate boss shoots you down, then you've done your best and it is time to CYA and get out of Dodge.

Whether you choose to report your former employer and possibly collect a reward for turnign them in is up to you, but do it from the safety of a new job!

by clive_w

Before I retired I worked for a very large international IT company.
Their approach, which I believe was the correct one, was to dismiss anyone found using unlicensed software.
Even internal use of their own products had to be licenced. This seemed strange when I first heard about it but it gave accounting credit to the department that designed it.

by dosmastr

that would be ironic, to hear how apple or MS were using one licence for all thier buildings lol

but yea, send a letter with a plan to fix it to the upper mgmnt and the guy they hired to take your place. that will diminish the whole "this person left the scene of the crime before police arrived" aura which might get kicked up by the theives u used to work for

by gvnmtwrkr

From all the replies I have seen here most are right on. If you have checked the licenses of said software and they are not multi-user but are being used as such that is a problem. There have been several suggestions that you document correspondence (make sure it is date stamped by the server) and set up a plan for compliance complete with budget and a time to complete plan. By doing this, even if it is not approved, you will have made what legaly is called a 'good faith effort' to resolve this situation. Keep the documentation somewhere safe and preferably off-site. Copyright infringement is a serious matter even on expired or previous copies of software. The legal expiration used to be seven years but for certain circumstances four years is an official end of legal remedy. So if you were using Office 97 you would be legally clear but ethically guilty and your Users would probably be complaining full time about the poor response and inablility to read more current documents anyway.
Keep to your course and don't blink!
From a programmer and creator of software solutions who has been there.

by mitchellson

If a company is in the proccess of using pirated software and you don't do anything, inaction can make you legally involved, but with the wistleblower protection act, you can get the protection you need and even have legal recourse with the company for loss of job, wages, mental duress ect but document, document,document, and write a clear and nonthreatening letter as one post suggested to cya, that"s cover your ass!!

by driv

There is an organization dedicated to answering this and helping YOU. Suggest everyone check it. Reasons why, who to contact, what YOU should do.
Report software piracy here by using one of our online reporting forms below. You may be eligible for a reward of up to $50,000.
What should I do if become aware of a company that does not comply with the copyright law or its software licenses?
Cases of software piracy, or noncompliance with software licenses, can be reported on the Internet at http://www.siia.net/piracy/report or by calling the Anti-Piracy Hotline: (800) 388-7478.

by lelandhoover

A core element of company software licensing compliance is having the top management team adopt a no tolerance policy for illegal software. Present the problem and the solution. It is the responsibility of IT to recommend to top management a sound licensing policy, the business reasons for compliance, document the liability, the cost to comply and a timeline. Borrow heavily from the www.bsa.org website for your material and present a dispassionate factual account of the situation. Position yourself as helping the company avoid a real catastrophe that non-technical management might not fully appreciate as this is not their field of expertise (i.e. give your immediate boss an out or you will create an enemy and may lose your job). Copy senior management, but be prepared for a nasty reaction from your boss as you make him look incompetent (blown budget) and unethical. If your entire management team has weak ethics on piracy, it is probably symptomatic of a larger disease and I would consider looking for a more ethical employer. Good luck!
- Leland, CIO

by rmartin

The big question comes down to a personal value question. What price do you put upon your own integrity? The law states that seeing a crime and not reporting it makes you an accessory before and after the fact. I have had the experience of pirated software in the workplace and left that company because I would not compromise my own integrity. The last time it happened I did an internal audit and then made a chart showing what we had and what we had licenses for. Then show what it would cost to bring the company into compliance verses what the monetary fines could be if caught. The company decided it was in their interest to become compliant.

It comes down to a progression; What you tolerate, you will one day believe and what you believe, you will one day do.

The company has already shown a lack of integrity by stealing in order to make a greater profit. What would make you think that they would be totally honest with you when they by action have commited theft?

I would rather be know as a man of integrity than one who looks the other way.

by blueknight

I think you already know the answer to your question, but are really looking for concurrence rather than advice. Assuming you are an ethical person who has integrity, you need to report the offense to the SPA.

If you want give the company a chance to make it right, notify the BIG boss since your director blew you off. Try getting time with him/her to discuss the problem and the ramifications for the company. Try to do a presentation like one of the other respondents suggested... that was excellent.

While you're at it, document everything you know about the software: which software, when it was acquired/installed etc. If the company doesn't quickly get with the program and purchase and install licenced software to replace all the illegal copies, the you must report it.

If it comes down to a raid, computer forensics can determine when the software was installed. It won't matter whether you weren't working there then or not. That really should make no difference since you would be the reporting party.

If it comes down to your getting "the axe" because you reported this to the authorities, then you have them over a barrel. Installing licensed copies of software is the least expensive option your company has. The law protects whistle blowers, plus the SPA may reward you for your actions.

Now, go forth and do what's right... and be proud of doing it.

by dosmastr

true certs are nothing but paper, but so is money.

if someone steals from you, you have more then a couple options, among them: call a lawyer, or call some friends to help u beat their face in, which one is more satisfying, which one easier to live down the aftermath? who knows, but theft is wrong ethically and legally, and they choose to prosecute and damage those who steal from them any way that they can. If MS got paid for all its pirated software would they lower prices, i don;t know, would they get less piracy if they did lower prices, again i don't know. but thats not for us to descide or control. the law says what the law says, and unless you want to be on the next episode of COPS, the law must be followed whether it protects some much hated companys bottom line or not

by 3500+ windows users

Out here in CA, MS had to pay 1.6 billion for so-called overpricing of desktop software. Of course 600 Million of that went to the lawyer?s fees, but the law is there, somewhat diluted, but it?s there.

by hmtattrie

It seems that that's what you got out of my response. Never did I say that stealing is OK or software piracy is either - for that matter. What I said was that it's not my responsibility to police every person or company I come into contact with on behalf of Microsoft (or any other software publisher for that matter - big or small).

Stealing is wrong - ethically and morally. Thats why the police, the BSA and all of the other loss control type organizations exist. They should go out and do their jobs - by all means. In fact - part of what I said was that finally, Microsoft was taking responsibility for maintaining their own IP rights (without relying on me to "turn in" my boss or neighbor or whoever).

I will not spend my time looking out for Microsoft's intelectual property rights any more than they spend their time and efforts looking out for mine (not that they even know that I exist!). Do you suppose they would go out of their way to tell me about a company that they found was illegally using my software? Wouldn't happen.

Having said that - I'm still not a proponent of stealing or piracy.

I'm just not a policeman either. . . .

by joshua tuman

Tattrie until i read your last post, i almost thought you'd have a basement full of pirated software. But thats the truth, you create software and start selling coppies of it, it wouldn't be surprising to find that even the software giant would have pirated coppies of it. And they wouldn't go out of there way to tell you if anyone else is using it illeagly

by techniquephreak

I tried all the arguments. I lectured on the stats from the BSA, I showed them how they could qualify for charitable non-profit rates, I informed them that I could not work on any machines that I knew were running illegale software, I write and implemented software licensing policies that were adopted by HR and woven into the employee handbook, I reminded them that they were currently suing someone who was pirating one of their training videos... None if it worked. I documented everything, covered my own ass, and after exhausting all other avenues - reported them to the BSA.

The BSA was very helpful, immediately notifying the company that they would need to come into compliance within three months or face an audit. Once the company realized it was not invincible, we worked out a plan to get everything properly licensed. That was several years ago, and our professional relationship is stronger than ever. The charitable non-profit licensing helps. Because they are a 501(3)c, I was able to get their licensing costs down from about $70K to about $8K.

I felt like crap turning them in, worried about losing my job, et cetera. But that's what whistle-blower protection is for.

by klaken

If the Director does not support legalizing the software, then you either do nothing and support him/her in which case you endorse the Director's stand. (At that point you are now on an equal footing with the directors position)

If you do not support the Directors stand, then get out of there as fast as you can. It is best for your career to not use this issue for leaving, because of the negative shadow this will cast on you and your new employers willingness to trust you. (It never sells well when someone says that they left because of another persons ethics as there is always a doubt that you were really to blame, or that you are just a negative person.)

Do not report the violations to either the government or the companies themselves. If either decides to press the case by going to court, you will be financially ruined as you will have to miss too much work to be employable, and you will never be hired by another firm.
Remember, companies serve their best interests - not yours, and governments never serve their citizens, they only serve to exist, and if you enhabce their ability to enforce, then you will be a victim for life.

Finally, if you really like the organization that you belong to, then bring the issue to the board of directors. If it is a non-profit, they will act appropriately.

by paul.tiffany

Depending on the scope of the problem - i.e. What is the software liability worth? - your only protection is to engage an attorney. This will allow you proper counsel and document your resistance to participate in the illegal activity. Anything you try to do otherwise on your own is not going to protect you if problems arise.

About a year and a half ago, I was faced with being responsible for implementation of HIPAA requirements (Federal legislation) and found that management and clients offered lip service to support, but specifically had no intential of implementing needed changes. (I also uncovered massive fraud in claims and government payments/billings.) I sent management and their attorneys written notices to no avail. After contacting my own attorney, he made it clear that I was still liable. I resigned my position as HIPAA Coordinator for more than one dozen health care organizations that refused to comply with required changes. A few months later, I left the company.

Not long after that, someone else blew the whistle and of course the company thought it was me. Despite some worrisome contacts and veiled threats, my engagement of a personal attorney really made a difference.

by Member 22879628

I think we have gotten into trouble as a nation because morality and doing what is right has been replaced with "what can they prove", "how big is the fine", and "what if I get caught", etc... Ask yourself one question...if you were writing software and it was someobody else at a company that was in your shoes and had this knowledge, what would you want them to do? It is that simple.

For those who care little for morality, I would say: Bill Gates may have all the money he can ever spend and he may charge too much for his software, but we have a right to tell him what we think by not buying his software. Part of why he has the monopoly he does and there is so little competition is because instead of pursuing other options and learning to do without his software, people steal it, which just furthers the stranglehold. Stealing is an afront to everyone and we pay for it eventually, one way or another.

by kpon

As a contractor I ran into my fair share of pirated software. I felt it was my responsibility to inform the responsible person(s) that they were out of compliance. Surprisingly, more than a few were simply ignorant of the law and were eager to correct the situation.
Some will be moved to corrective action when the financial penalties are laid out.
The most effective call to action was when a local rag ran the story of a raid at a popular company in the area. The paper ran what the association (BSA?) fed them but the story was incomplete. I called the company to find out how they were detected. It was a disgruntled employee. I carried the article around for show and tell and this was enough for a few of my fence straddlers.
Using pirated software leaves a company vulnerable in several areas including their reputation & wallet. Playing to conscience is not very effective when the software company itself is so morally corrupt.
I think payback should be left to karma. Snitching is not a lofty aspiration.

by nicktheman33

What is the penalty for an IT administrator / manager if he/she does not inform the director etc... And what is the penalty if they do inform the director but they refuse to comply?

by slogginit

The current penalties in the UK is actually unlimited fines, and up to 2 years imprisonment.

A site I use for a Benchmark is www.fast.org.uk

Thats the FAST site (Federation Against Software Theft), a body created to raise awareness of Software Piracy in businesses.

by paulnovy

Start building a paper trail showing your disapproval and suggestion to get proper software license. This will clearly show you brought it to the management of the company and should minmimize your responsibility.

by g_geeslin

A previous employer of mine overinstalled some of the software they purchased. It cost them a pretty penny. Part of the problem, however, had to do with software upgrades. BSA wanted to see PAID RECEIPTS on the software we owned to show that we had legitimate copies and also to show that we had rights to purchase the upgrades we did on other software. Since some of the purchases had been made more than seven years earlier and via credit card, we no longer had that proof.

In short, the license documents that came with the software were worthless. BSA was only interested in seeing paid receipts as proof that we were legit.

KEEP ALL YOUR POs and RECEIPTS on software purchases FOREVER. That's what BSA will want to see when they come a-knocking!

Gregg

by etheric nomad

I don't know the legal systems there in the US, but at least here, what I am doing is : speak out my concerns and keep every email and written docuements to prove this is not my decision. And usually there is no written document, so taping or recording the conversation between me and my boss is crucial.

Or when the company gets busted, the boss may avoid all the responsibilities and let me take them all.

by mryan

About 15 years ago I worked for an IT department that was headed by a very talented assembly programmer. She, however, had great difficulty with PASCAL because she would always get an error when she tried to compile her "if x>3 than" statements.

by jamietammy

Legally you are not at risk for this violation, your company is the one at fault. However if you were to be audited by the BSA, infractions carry a $150,000 penalty for each one found. This would be enough to put most small companies out of business and you would be affected in that outcome.

by sleepin'dawg

Send a detailed e-mail to your former boss and/or bosses pointing out all the illegal software on their system and especially the fact that it was all there before you were hired. If you know of anything that was installed after your arrival mention it and name the person you suspect loaded it. You could refer them to the BSA and the SPA. Mention clearly that you are sending the e-mail so as to disassocate yourself from their illegal activity and you do not want to be dragged into anything in the event they are caught. Do not threaten them with action, Do not say you are or are not going to report them but do Bcc. every employee that you can remember. Print out 5 copies of the e-mail and put them in 5 envelopes which you will send to yourself via registered snail mail. Keep them somewhere safe, unopened. You will have documented beyond a reasonable doubt your innocense in the matter. In fact you could say in your e-mail this was one of the reasons for your departure since you felt that you were constantly looking over your shoulder and it had bothered you. Whether you decide to drop a dime on them is your business but I assume you may still have friends there and you might be dropping them in the guano that is sure to hit the proverial air movement device. After all, no one appointed you keeper of the public conscience and you have gone as far as you can to protect the innocent. This is sure to come out eventually and you don't want or need the reputation of being identified as the whistle blower.

by sleepin'dawg

You do understand of course that some people are from the shallow end of the gene pool and are incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Don't unnecessarily confuse them. For some it's a miracle if they can find the on button; for others it's the button marked "any". Don't laugh, it happens and more often than I care to think about.

by mandrake64

As an IT professional, you are ethically obliged to report the breaches to your supervisor or manager. If they do not want to know, then go as high as you need to in the organisation to get someone to inititate some action.
You could also approach one of the anti-piracy groups to politely inform your management that they are in breach and offer an amnesty period for them to get their licensing up to date.

by sylink

It is vital that u dont keep quiet. dont stop at mere oral presentation; get it documented and pass ur recommendationt to immediate boss. follow it up.

by clkoay

I was in your shoes and have reported to BSA on my company that uses pirated softwares. However, BSA seems to be dragging their feet to investigate the report. I am disappointed with the turnover time and it has been 2 months since I have reported to them (BSA). BSA has not initiated any actions toward the company.

by foringmar

1.
If You did not have lots of witnesses to Your confrontation with the director, he will, in case need arises, categorically deny the discussion ever occurred.
2.
If the BSA comes along, the director will almost certainly point his finger toward You.
3.
Cover Your back:
- discuss again with the director, with lots of witnesses present. Witnesses should be people that can not be influenced by anyone involved. Not by Yo? and not by the director. Or better still, record the conversation secretly.
4.
If the director does not see the light after that, hit him with BSA, MS and everything else possible.
5.
You will loose Your job if You do this, and You will loose Your job also if BSA comes calling, so why let the director get off the hook.

by rickbarry

With any ethical challenge, it's a good idea to go on record with your boss and others, especially the organization's attorney. They don't like to be confronted with evidence of illegal behavior where they have legal responsibilities. They likely get the message to top management faster and more "persuasively" than anyone. Do this using a traditional paper memorandum rather than email/other electronic forms, because most organizations are also irresponsible, and in some cases breaking the law, because they do not treat electronic communications, no matter how informal, as organizational records even though they are. Most are in the dark ages and think:if it isn't on paper it isn't a record. Wrong. So make it on paper and be sure a copy gets into the organization's recordkeeping system.

by deadly ernest

As an IT pro your responsibility is to notify, in writing, your boss of the situation and the danger it creates. Once he writes back saying forget it, you take no further action re that software.

However, do NOT load any more pirate software or reload any pirate software on to any machines. You can NOT be held responsible for any unlawful software on the machine when you start, but you can be held responsible for any that you load.

Also once the boss says forget it I would start looking for other employment, as I doubt he will be around long as Microsoft are actively seeking corporate software pirates.

by mckuhaj

This is easy. No. You did the right thing to present the problem to the business and also you are no longer there. The big boys need to police it themselves and not put IT personel in the middle. Sleep good tonight; that Director will get his.

by me660

I think I would just encourage my boss to regester his software and maybe say it needs to be updated and you cant update with out it being registered and then make notes as too your atempt to do this and maybe ask him to sign something stating that you tried, it may not compleatly cover your butt but it will show that you atempted to right it and just that goes a long way in making a statement as to the kind of person you are, best of luck!

by justmakingit

I didn't think I would this many replies. I guess this is a touchy subject among IT professionals. It was the first time I ran into the situation and hopefully the last. The company I now work for is totally legitimate.

Thanks for all of the responses, I appreciate all. And I think that everyone may have learned something from the discussion, I hope it continues. As mentioned in some of the postings, we as IT professionals have to join together to get rid of software piracy. But another question arises. What about those small companies who are trying to get their companies off of the ground. Software is so expensive today it could potentially cost an organization more to obtain legal software than the actual starting up of the company. Is there niothing out there to help these companies, some way for them to start off with cheaper version of big name software, or is open-source the answer to all of this??

by dercp94

Personally, I think it would depend on the professional and personal values you have. If the values you hold lean more toward what's right, then you may want to report it. But, there would be consequences if you do. Question is, can you deal with those consequences? If the risk associated with reporting the illegal software is acceptable and manageable to you, then you may want to report it.

by nataraj

It is rather very unfortunate that people are willing to pay large amounts for anything except a software. Most of the user community wants softwares free. They don't think for a while that there are humans behind the creation of these softwares who have spent a lot of time and money to create the softwares. Perhaps because a software does not look like a computer or a car people think it is not worth the price quoted.

As IT professional we owe to the software community our responsibility to educate the users and endeavour to stop the menace of piracy.

by jimhm

That's a bridge you don't want to burn - you will run into them again somewhere in your career - and the last thing you want to see as the hiring manager on an interview is your X-I-got-him-fired Director...

You are gone - let sleeping dogs lie...