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Some one HELP me understand this!

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by tig2

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

It doesn't seem to matter what the subject matter, many TR peers seem to think that the best way to respond is with "10 point words" - words with the absolute highest emotional triggers. And the unfortunate outcome is that there are really good posters that decide to just not deal with it. So they go away.

I am about sick of the puerile attacks on people just because a person doesn't agree. Guess what- I don't agree with a lot of people here. I don't have to flame them.

The issue that has me on this rant is pennatomcat. The poor schmuck decides to post something under a header that was somewhat misleading. Okay. If we could just keep all the Tech QA in the right place this wouldn't have been a problem. Unfortunately, we can't. People post as they do. The result to Tomcat is that he basically got fried over something that he wasn't wholly a part of- TR decided to showcase his thread- appropriately filed under Misc. Did he post badly? My initial impression was that he should have given other peers a heads up that this was a joke. I said as much and in so many words. What I DIDN'T do was participate in the ensuing mud slinging.

I have read the entire thread. Can we please get off this poor guy? He was being funny. I know that many peers have stood up to defend him. You have risen in my estimation because of it.

Can we try a modicum of tolerance, people? Maecuff, ITGirlie, JDClyde, SleepinDawg, DeepSand, NightHawk, DawgIt, others I have missed- you MUST know I am not talking to you. I am ranting about the id10ts out there who are so stuck in their "professionalism" or their theoretical ideals that they can't think straight any more.

Sorry folks. The injustice here just makes me want to spit. I invite the likes of ti99a and luvinIT to cross my path. I have read their words. They make no sense.

Y'all know that I am a generally peaceful person. But this is irritating in the extreme.

Let the flame wars begin! The delete button on MY computer works just fine. And for any of the unfortunate that think that they can get to me, read "Fighting Breast Cancer". You don't scare me in the least.

48 replies

by zlitocook

Of the IT people have way too much time on thier hands and like to tear into people! It shows how little personality they have! If you need to put down some one because they ask a question that you know and think they should know or they just need a simple answer. Well they have more problems then can be helped here.
I have always said that we need to let the new people ask a question and not belittle them for it.
How are they to learn except by asking?
Haha let the the posters flame me! I like being the bad guy!

by deepsand

I've seen the same problem many times on other boards as well.

I finally left a News.net group, dedicated to the exchange of [b]guitar tabs[/b] for just such a reason. Rather than simply seeking out or offering up tabs, there were those who insisted on and persisted in ridiculing others' tastes in music.

There are the ill mannered and uncivil lurking everywhere; they cannot be escaped, short of your physically isolating yourself from everyone else.

by deepsand

I had originally called it "The TI99a Eternal Flame;" but, after my anger subsided, which was immediately after starting such (cathartic?), my better judgement prevailed, and I changed it.

Quite frankly, there's no satisfactory solution to the issue that you raise.

People will always disagree, some in a manner more civil than others. We are irrational creatures by nature, rational by nuture, with the former being the more powerful owing to its origins.

In face-to-face confrontations, there are any number of ways in which conflict can either be resolved, or at least contained. On the other hand, in long distance one's, particularly when in writing only, lacking any sort of superior-subordinate relationship, there are few, if any, constraints that can be brought to bear.

I have on several past occasions tried to moderate situations that had already turned into flame wars, or appeared to be about to, with the results that I was either accused of acting as a proxy for one or both parties involved, or told, in manners quite rude, that it was none of my business.

As a result, the rest of us are left with the choices only of whether or not to participate, observe, or depart.

May the future be kind.

by mjd420nova

I have to agree with you, as I've begun to skip
over responses from some of these "malcontents".
Some enjoy rattling others cages and some delight
in responding to them with harsh words and
nit-picking. I come to this site to help those
who have little experience in computers and to
get some insight on things I don't understand.
Jump on my spelling, typo's or subject matter,
and I'll gladly ignore you too. But if you have
something constructive to add, I'll be the first
to respond. I've been through this all before,
from the first BBS, and it hasn't changed, there
are those who will attenpt to take over or
otherwise subvert the original thread. I have no
problems with some threads sounding like a chat
room, and that's their perogative. Maybe TR
could add a chat room, and then most users would
be able to sound off and get immediate responses.
I love a good fight, but it has to be conducted
with some consideration of those who are looking
for some information, and don't have time for
drivel. A good example is the Friday Yuk,
maybe 6 jokes and 50 chit-chats among others.
This is good, and maybe a specific area should
be set aside. Carry on!!

by jdclyde

When you block your text like that, man it is hard to read.

Not a flame, but a request. word wrap the text. double space between ideas.

Makes it easier for US to understand YOU.

Thanks.

by mjd420nova

Out of force of habit, I keep an eye on the screen so as not to cram too much on a single line. I was not aware that this created problems for others, and from here on I'll just pound away and forget about the RETURN key. I guess it stems from looking at what I type and when I come to the end of the line I just automaticaly hit that key. Some habits are hard to break and I lapse into autopilot and just pound away.
I'll endevour to restrain myself in the future.

by deepsand

Merely creating yet another area would'nt solve a problem that has deep roots in the human condition; i.e, we are both [b]rationa[/b] and [b]irrational[/b] creatures. And, as the the former is born of [b]nuture[/b], whereas the latter is born of [b]nature[/b], when the 2 conflict the latter proves to be the more powerful.

I've seen boards with so many participants eager to pounce on typos, spelling errors, etal., that some others would deliberately make "mistakes," so as to give their would be detractors something with which to occupy themselves!

As for myself, I'm constantly screwing up the delimiters used here for [b]bold[/b] and [i]italicized[/i] fonts, as well as frequently typing too fast with the result that I transpose characters, or produce consecutive upper case ones. So as to avoid the nitpickers, given the absence of a Preview function here, I try to always review my posts after they're submitted, and correct any errors that I spot.

And, occasionally, if I spot a nitpicker, I will deliberately leave a crumb or two for their amusement.

by onbliss

English is [b]not[/b] my first language. So when you said "nuture", I jumped to the conclusion that you made a typo. I thought you wanted to say [b]nurture[/b]. But when you used the same spelling twice in different posts, I had to look up the dictionary. Webster did not have any thing with that spelling.

So then, I mulled over your remarks about deliberate "mistakes" to keep some folks amused. But as I had some time on my hand, I decided to google. I saw several results that had "Nature vs Nuture" debates/discussions. Looks like lots of people do use that particular word "nuture"

I am little more perplexed. Care to demystify it? :-)

by jdclyde

And it seems the newer the member [i](heehee, he said "member")[/i] the more prone they are to go off on the smallest thing.

They are also usually the ones to start snivilling about being "off-topic" or "not tech related".

Let them cry. Reason doesn't seem to work with them. Maybe if their mothers came down into the basement more often and looked over their shoulders to see what they are typing, this would be curtailed?

I was going off on this in my blog a bit ago, wondering about the "cabliber" of the new members. Even THAT turned into a beotch session. Sad.

by deepsand

While I do concur that the young seem to be becoming egregious, I long ago noticed that adults too were becoming much more prone to losing control of their emotions and/or being disrespectful of others.

In fact, not too long ago, John Stossel did a piece on this very subject on [i]20-20[/i], as part of his [i]Give me a break[/i] series.

by shellbot

nit picking..JD if yer gonna b1tch about someones typing, sort your own out luv!

"cabliber"

Should that not be Caliber? ]:)

Sorry, i just couldn't resist picking that one up! :x

now whats this about members and smallest things? do go on..i'm dying to know more
:)

by jdclyde

I didn't say anything about speeeling, just layout for readability! :(

And it wasn't "b1tching", it was a very polite request for layout changes....... :p Need t1ts to b1tch..... :0

As for the rest of that, it is on a "need to know" basis... B-)

by Member 25348569

I think she was talking to YOU!

:p

OK. So I know she wasn't, I was just being provocative. You either didn't read this or you're mellowing out...

by dawgit

Good Call. Thanks for that clear, established standard. I've noticed this strange behavior int the last couple of months. It seem to be cyclic. I do believe that I had attempeted to participate in the Tech-Rep some time ago, saw this kind of behavior, and droped out for a while. (no, I don't even remember what user name I used, so don't waste any time asking) Anyway, that kind eventually fadded away, they always do.

by jdclyde

If you type something worth reading, might as well put it in a format that doesn't make it harder to read!

Thanks! :D

At
least
you
don't
type
like
this!

by ontheropes

I have a theory that the ?flamers? are all trying to achieve the mastery of one of sleepingdawg?s casual ?missives? (missiles?) that he?ll toss off in between serious posts to discussions. I wonder when charm school starts. Does anybody know?

Pennatomcat? Where?s my shotgun!?! Really? I appreciated the humor and I say that the security ?alert? is a HUGE non-issue.

Does anybody want to make something of it? Don't bother.

(Am I on still on topic here, addressing the right person/issue, making sense??)

Someone should start a discussion: The top-10 things that tick me off about top-10 lists are:

by rob mekel

So you did start, now make it a discussion ;)

Rob

ps was it the 1st of june or as soon as possible on the avitar thing ?:|

by shellbot

i've a hard time separating wants and needs though. i think its genetic :)

Face it, I'm nosy ]:)

wanna help me reverse engineer a database?
(uggghh..i'm going to hide in a cupboard or soemthing)

:x

(edit for smiley)

by jdclyde

That isn't the mommy part that causes all the b1tching..... :0

[i] oh my...... :p

by jdclyde

have your friends IRL noticed a change in you? It would appear that we have been corrupting you! ]:)

It suits you nicely! :x

by tig2

... that TR gets ALL the credit. There has always been a strong feisty streak in me. TR tends to draw that to the surface.

Once upon a time I was a nice quiet person. Gave it up for Lent, just never took it up again. There are things about me that you just don't know ... yet. :D

by tig2

Welcome to one of the challenges of English. Nuture is a common misspelling and has therefore become an accepted misspelling. The correct spelling is nurture.

Helpful?

by onbliss

...it is a common misspelling. But I still did not want to discount a notion that the etymology could point to Latin, French or Greek origins:-)

by ken coe

It's not just on this site. Flames and Trolling are skyrocketing on ALL of the online communities. There are many people who are starting to fire insults constantly, and for no valid reason. I usually brush it off as childishness, but have occasionally (twice last weekend) lost my cool and fired back, so I guess I am just about as guilty as they are.

This post is a little different.

On this post I noticed that many people, myself included, complained not about the post but that it was sent over a newsletter as a news story instead of a misc post. That is was a valid statement about bad form on newsletters. Almost everyone who said that, again myself included, was personally attacked for making the statement just as much as the trolls.

I don't want jokes showing up on a e-newsletter which I receive at work. Many people should agree as that site could have been considered out of bounds for corporate use of internet. That is the kind of thing that, if mis-interpreted by a supervisor, can get people in trouble.

That doesn't mean that all of the arguments were valid. This poast had the flamers just as much as any other. The next post will, too.

by tig2

I honestly do not believe that Tomcat had any idea that the thread would be picked up for inclusion to the TechNote. But I recall your post and felt that you had made your case peacefully. Unfortunately, by that time, the flame war had begun.

I don't have issues with differing viewpoints. What ticked me off was the attacks on everyone. It wasn't just Tomcat that got nailed- it seemed like EVERYONE caught the flack. And while I realise that there were some specific people fanning the flames, the tone of the entire thread read like a barroom brawl.

It is people like yourself who have a specific case to state and do so calmly that I appreciate. Your points are valid and clearly stated. Given the pressure on appropriate use of the Internet in the workplace, you bring up a subject that merits consideration. I will make a bet that Tomcat is clearer in his titles in the future.

I don't know if the post was read or the link followed before it was included in the TechNote. I would guess that it was not. Perhaps a note to TR in this regard would be helpful. TR has included in Discussion a very specific place to post site feedback.

It is hard to know if anyone at TR got to see the constructive feedback. It is very possible that all they know is that a peer got flamed- if they are aware of that. This means that just such an error could be made again. As I don't see that as constructive, I will likely post a note so that the valid points- such as inappropriate linkage and corporate Internet use- do, in fact, get some visibility.

I appreciate that you considered your input and helped me to clearly understand your views. I wish others would do the same.

Thanks!

by ken coe

You are absolutely correct. There is also a contact link at the bottom of each newsletter. My answer to them was not quite as nice as what I put in the post.

I will say that The response I got in the post was a little less than friendly (and quite a bit less than mature), but I figured it wasn't worth fighting over, since it was just me he attacked.

Your point in the post is valid. Some people feel a lot more brave behind a monitor, and they get very agressive because of it. I don't know if it is because they are venting what they normally want to say to someones face, if they are just trying to start arguments on purpose, or just not putting any consideration into what they say at all. You could call it a form of "Blog Rage."

I have lost it more than once on responses to trolls and flamers. It can be hard not to lose your temper. They spend a lot of time perfecting the art of being an id10t, and they get progressively worse. Most forums or groups eventually end up having to put in content moderation to stop them. It is a shame...

by jdclyde

There is a difference between feeling that the link being included in the newsletter was inapropreate, and screaming to anyone that would listen as to what an outrage it was.

Perspective. There was very little by most that complained.

It was a joke, not a direct insult to all the TR members. Realize it was for what it was intended, make your case for it not happening again, and then move on.

Anything more than that was just trolling, and worthy of being nothing more than flamebait.

There was no excuse for the outrage.

by tig2

I went back and read not only Ken's original post to PennaTomcat but Dawg's response and Ken's response to Dawg's response. He, in my opinion, was not as clear about his reasoning in his post to Tomcat, and had the grace to note that he came off on the pompous side in his response to Dawg.

I felt that his point about "acceptable use policies" was valid in light of the fact that I have used TechNotes at work and would have had some serious explaining to do if I had been caught pursuing a joke.

I also feel that it is fair to note that Ken clarified his position. I haven't seen luvinIT or that id10t Ti99a show up here to defend their positions.

Ken gets it. I think he has proven that. From his comments, I can see that your idea and Apoth's idea about writing a FAQ for newcomers is really more necessary than was originally thought. I know that reading Apoth's blog on the subject was very helpful to me when I started posting- even though I already knew that Jaqui wasn't a girl.

I know that you mean well. But Ken is, I think- based on his post here and his thoughtful reply to me- one who gets it. I think that we are all just feeling pretty raw about the mudslinging. I know I am.
:)

by rob mekel

You don't get enough :x :0

Well, I first have to come (oops could be DE :) )and leave to get back. But why leave if you like what you have. :)
[i]Oh my i'm running off again hope i won't be flamed about it[/i]

:x
Rob

by ken coe

I think JD has a point as well. This is an example of where I kept my cool. If I had spent a few hours recovering a RAID array before reading it, it might not have gone as well when I read the response to my comment.

In this case I made my point (I thought) very well. The response from the less than gracious user was not "what do you mean by that," but a personal insult of the type you might hear in Junior High. That is exactly what I was trying to do in that post. Comment and move on. As we saw in the post, someone else felt it was a good chance to play "sticks and stones."

I think the point I take from this post, and from what I see in the discussions, is that the problem is not people commenting on a post without consideration. To use your JDs analogy, any comment you make is flame-bait to them regardless of the amount of consideration you use.

I will point out that a few strings above this JD set what I would consider Flame-bait himslef. Using nothing but a smileycon of crying does not start your comment off well. We all do it occasionally.

by jdclyde

now you have done it. you hurt my feelings...... ;\

It seems you took my post as being directed at you, instead of just a general observation of what happened in the joke discussion. Was not meant as a zing to you.

by ken coe

Nice touch with the cry response! That was good!

No concerns. I did not take your comment personally. I thought it was a very good point.

I was just mentioning that in this particular case, I had tried to make a straight point, and someone fired off in a hurry. With this case I could show that someone can make a valid and calm point, and get a rediculous response. All he had to do is ask what I meant, but he responded very poorly.

Notice how I made sure to pick the one that made ME look good? I'm sure that a few people can find examples of where I did the same thing he did. I can think of one or two...

by rob mekel

It's not always easy to separate wants from needs. It's even genetic to the human-kind. Luckily humans can make that decision :)

Just mail me on the helping a hand with the reverse engineering.

Don't hide, it's not a good thing to do for trying to accomplice something. :)

:x

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