Support Racism. Now and forever?

where by the govt gave university scholarships to people with high marks. Businesses also gave millions in scholarships to unis for students, some based on marks, some based on involvement with the student - Internship programs and the like. People could also go to uni if they paid the full fees. the unis were full and had lots of money.

Then a Labour govt changed the system to have the federal govt paying the unis for every student who wanted to go to uni being able to go to uni - some subjects had minimum mark levels for entrance but you could go and study something even if you all but failed. Because of this the govt cut back on the allowance for corporate tax deductions for uni scholarships. This eventually lead to the unis getting less money while trying to teach more students. Later the Labour felderal govt had a big conference about the relevance and suitability of the entire education system. Recommendations for big changes in tertiary education came out of this - the biggest shock for the academics was the concept of competency based training where by the examines had to be totally objective and set standard levels for each subject etc. The unis did not want to do this as it took away a large amount of the professorial power over students amongst other things. So the govt linked tertiary funding levels to number of students in a subject AND the level to which that subject taught at that school was based on the new requirements. It took many years for the unis to eat up all the fat they had but eventually their budgets started hurting and they started complying.

The biggest problems that were noticed with the conversion from the simple scholarship / fee system to the govt funding system was the increased administration and paperwork, the added difficulty of NOT getting the money at the start of the semester, and the rate of first year drop outs quintupled in two years as people who were not able to self study went to uni and dropped out at the very first make or break exam in their educational experience - first year finals.

All this has meant increased educational costs, reduced quality of education provided due to stretched budgets, and a lower percentage of high school graduates finishing university.

So free tertiary education is not working here and I doubt it will work anywhere.

by tonythetiger Nov 9, 2006

were both qualified, and motivated, then free wouldn't be a bad idea. Or at least interest free loans.

It would likely more than be paid back by the extra taxes the graduate would pay in over their career.

by oneamazingwriter May 1, 2006

That someone who lacked intellectual expertise would be paying taxes to increase the financial security of someone who was book smart.

No thanks. Secondary education needs to be optional and worked for if it's going to be of any use. Book bright without any hands on experience of life and struggle makes for spoiled rotten people.

What we work to achieve we appreciate more fully.

Edit:jardinier has pointed out that the word POST needs to be placed before secondary education for this reply to mean what I meant. I stand corrected.

by jardinier May 2, 2006

The posts on which you are commenting refer to POST Secondary Education, that is Tertiary education.

Quite a different ball game.

In Australia our former Federal Minister for Education and Science, Dr Brendan Nelson, as a yes-man to very-right-wing Prime Minister John Howard, caused a ruckus by suggesting that additional university places should be made available to certain students who (that is their families presumably) could pay the fees up front.

I don't recall whether this was enacted into legislation, but it would mean that students with a lower secondary school score would be allocated places that should have been available on academic merit.

by jdclyde May 1, 2006

[i]Race is a touchy subject isn't it?[/i] -[b] yes[/b]

[i]Is there a level playing field in the US? [/i]-[b] no, but class has more to do with it than color. [/b]

[i]Has there been historic repression and discrimination against non-white people? [/i]-[b] yes, and now there is repression and discrimination against white people that had nothing to do with the discrimination of generations ago.[/b]

[i]Do we owe anything to the descendents of millions of African slaves?[/i] - [b]not a thing. No decendant of mine was ever a slave owner, so I can't even get guilt by association.[/b]

If an entire race is held down after this long, they have no one to blame but themselves. If people like Bill Cosby would have started standing up decades ago, maybe things would be different.

It is insulting to all blacks (or at least it should be) to say that because they are black they need to have a lower standard in order to compete with any other race. The placement in colleges should be based on economic regions. There are people of all races that go to the same innercity schools. Are they genetically superiour to the blacks? If you come from a "disadvantaged family" and want to improve yourself, the help should be there based on the REAL CURRENT disadvanteges.

No, I will not hand over special rights to anyone based on slavery or anything that happened since then. If the rich Kings in Africa had not sold their decendants into slavery in the first place, they would be even worse off than they are now! It was the whites that BOUGHT them, but it was the blacks that sold them in the first place.

Affirmative action is discrimination, plain and simple. And the people that USE this to get ahead are NOT the poor poor from the inner city in the first place.

And then there is the esteem issue. Always sits well to know someone is hired as the token (fill in blank for your favorite "minority" group _____) to fill a quota.

by gadgetgirl May 2, 2006

jd, you'll love this one.

I applied to go back to college later in life than most (the first time round took some getting over!)

There were lots of reasons I got a place ahead of a lot of others, and none of which were based on my intelligence.

1. I would be a "mature student" - the laugh is that anyone over the age of 19 was, at the time, classed as "mature" (hah!)

2. I was female (yup, checked, the DD's are still there, they didn't make a mistake, I AM female.....)

3. Because of the arthritis, I had to request an ergonomic keyboard. Oooh, look! I just got classed as disabled, too!

Grief.

After the first year of a prelim course, I was told in no uncertain terms by my lecturer that I need not had done it in the first damn place. Because of my previous work experience and my intelligence, I should have been put straight on the degree course. So, what he effectively told me was this:

that by ignoring my capabilites and experience, the college had filled its' quota of mature, female, disabled students at the expense of two years of my life.

Thank you very much, I DON'T think.

It still riles. Those two years were some of the most frantic of my life - working part time jobs around house, college and daughter, and going through a divorce all at the same time.

Don't mention minority groups any more jd, I only bring this particular pet subject out for an airing when there's no-one around within hitting distance......... GRRRRR.

by tig2 May 2, 2006

I grew up in Southern California in the (very) early 60's. The issues of race and discrimination were pretty hot topics.

I was fortunate in that my father had an issue with the semantics. In his opinion, discriminating was good- making informed choices about what is in front of you. Prejudice was an evil sin- how dare you pre-judge the value of an individual?

I attended "racially tense" schools throughout my education. I survived.

I am part Native American. Given my ethnicity and the sun exposure I get, I have many African-American friends who are lighter skinned than me- in the summer, anyway. Does this mean that I qualify from April to October? Should I cry foul because someone might have not given me the appropriate breaks? As my skin darkens, should I just assume that my brain cells will no longer function properly?

I think not.

If the African-Americans of this country prefer to be handled with kid gloves, that is fine. This reality must be laid out as well- the more difficult it is to care for you, the more difficult it will be to care about you.

When I poll African American friends, the answers I get indicate that Affirmative Action has over-stayed its welcome. What I hear tells me that they would reallly rather not KNOW that they are not being held to the same standard as everyone else. In short, all Affirmative Action does is to insure that the divide widens.

I find it sad to think that the Mayor of a city like Detroit would make such an assinine blanket statement.

Edited to correct typos

I have had the same dealings with people that just happen to have skin that isn't white. This does NOT lift them up, it gets SOME in a job that they are then DISPISED for because the only qualification that was looked at to hire them was the color of their skin. "Token" is the word of the day, and is NOT a compliment.

You must not be familar with Detroits thug they have for a mayor.

He has been CAUGHT leasing a lincon Navigator for his wife.

He has taken trips, dinners, and nights out all charged to the petty fund for the Mayor. (illegal). The list goes on and on.

The "good people" of Detroit re-elected this man recently, and so they now deserve every bad thing that happens to them because of this person being in office and running the city down even worse that it was.

To base a person on what they look like instead of who they are is stupid. More and more people see that all the time. The bad thing is, a whole "race" is being seen for who they are based on the laziest, not the best and brightest.

This "I am a victom, give me a hand-out" is doing more harm to themselves than anyone outside the group ever could.

by jaqui May 2, 2006

I'm completely of european hertiage.
[ Scottish and English ]
yet I'm frequently mistaken for someone who is part native american when I get out into the sun.
I tan very rapidly, and get very dark. I've gotten friends who are part native jealous with how dark my tan was.

As far as I'm concerned, skill is the only required criteria for employment. If you don't have the skills, don't apply, if you do, then go for it. I don't care about gender, race, religion or politics, those have nothing to do with one's ability to do their jobs.

how would YOU take it if the government came along and said you HAD to have X number of minorities on the payroll or get fined?

Or worse, if in the US, you could even have Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton extort you with threats of a protest if you don't contribute to their foundations.

by mjwx May 2, 2006

Scottish mother
English father

I'm not white, I am a shade of pale blue. I turn white when I tan.

As for race, some individuals in minorities like to play the race card. This is sometimes used when they have done something they know is wrong (But I am not a racist so I wont go in to detail). The subject of a certain minorities rights in OZ is a subject of some contention, one that I would do well not to get into (I get into enough stupid arguments as it is).

Agree completely where skills are concerned. Last year we had a Bangladeshi working here, smartest bloke I have ever met. Well and truly earned his qualifications (Aussie and Bangladeshi) and the respect of his colleagues.

by jardinier May 2, 2006

While generally speaking I do not consider any one race of people superior to another, it is quite obvious to me that particular races have particular characteristics that predominate. However different races do not apparently have greater or lesser degrees of intelligence for example.

There is one glaring exception to this within the bounds of my personal experience. I happen to believe -- and I am certainly not alone in this viewpoint -- that Australian aboriginals are probably the dumbest race on the planet. They are quite unable to integrate with the predominantly Caucasian general populace.

Any aboriginal that I can think of who has amounted to anything has been of mixed blood, and they have excelled predominantly in sports, not intellectual pursuits.

African Americans on the other hand -- despite centuries of oppression and mal-treatment -- have shown that they can rise to the highest levels of society, as seen with Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice.

Prime Minister John Howard -- quite correctly in my opinion -- refuses to apologise for the maltreatment of aboriginals in the earlier days of Australian history.

Akin to what jd and others have said -- neither I nor any of my ancestors have been involved in mistreatment of indigenous Australians, so I don't feel any guilt, or any responsibility to grant them special privileges.

The Australian aboriginal is indeed a unique species in that they have abused any special privileges that have been granted them on the grounds of guilt or inequality.

Unfortunately they live in a state of limbo. They are unable or unwilling to revert to their tribal ways, and unable or unwilling to compete on equal terms with white society.

As many of you know, I have been communicating for several months with a young African woman. She has a sharp intellect, is ambitious, and given the opportunity she would be a match for any Caucasian.

Australian aboriginals are, for the most part, incapable of putting together a coherent statement in English. It is whites and part-bloods who stir for aboriginal rights.

I have known and worked with many full blood Aboriginal people and found them to be just as intelligent as any other ethnic group of people. The problem is two totally different issue:

1. Those of mixed race who are not welcome in the tribal cultures and not wanting to fully integrate into the non-tribal cultures. They want extras from the general community and cause all sorts of trouble to get it.

2. There is a real and vaste cultural difference and they do NOT reconcile. Add to this the problems caused by the fact that until 200 years ago they did not have anything like what we use for alcohol and you get some real issues arising.

The best way to describe the situation is fringe dwelling. Those raised in the tribal culture cannot understand the general urbanised, european style culture of the non-tribal areas. Result major conflict, major anger and angst about not knowing what to do. They same occurs in reverse when non-tribals, of any colour, go to live in the full tribal culture communities.

This whole mess is made worse by the govt's, state and federal, giving extra special money to Aboriginal services such as health. The Aboriginal health statistics are very badly warped by the numbers of tribal community members living in very remote areas - they get a lower percentage of the special Aboriginal Health services money than they get of the general health care funds - we do not need to give urban Aboriginals any extra services than non-Aboriginals get. All those in remote communities need extra services and funding.

For Aboriginals to be urbanised, as is happening, they need to be raised in a total urban environment with a total urban culture. That rarely happens. Many are raised in urban environments with a fringe dweller culture. This 'not fitting' is passed from generation to generation and is the major cause of the problems with Aboriginal youth in urban areas. And it adds to the health problems as Aboriginals, of all ages, take refuge in substance abuses of alcohol, tobacco, drugs, glue, paint etc.

Regarding the Federal government not saying sorry - I agree totally. None of those involved in the major abuses is alive today, and they went both ways. Some systematic abuse was done by the colonial govts - the state govts have grown out of those govts and all the state govts have apologised for the former administrations' behaviour. All that abuse was over when the federal govt was created and they have had nothing to do with it.

The issues you raise about Aboriginals is mostly due to the adverse impact on their education by the fringe dweller behaviour causing many to miss a lot of schooling or not be well enough to take it in. Where individuals have gotton over the cultural and fringe dweller issues within their families or themselves they have done well.

I have had personal interaction with aboriginals covering the whole spectrum and I will stand by what I said.

A certain Paul Coe -- who I think from memory was pretty much a full blood -- put this trip on me as if I were personally responsible for every offence that had been perpetrated by whites.

I guess you probably know that there is a suburb in Sydney called Redfern. I happen to know a girl who lives there and who mingles with and supports aboriginals.

I would agree that the huge cultural gap is apparently one that cannot be bridged. But what about Africans who have learnt to blend with and play the white man's game in America? Are they more intelligent than Australian indigenous? Or was there is smaller cultural gap?

Alcohol has been the real killer. I think it was Gough Whitlam who first allowed Aboriginals ready access to liquor in a spirit of equal rights. It was a mistake, but can it be reversed?

Now I will tell you something about how aboriginal culture is deeply ingrained into the psyche. As you know the black gene in Australian aborigines is very weak and they can become quite pale in colour readily.

Two girls I have know personally -- and as long-time friends -- were each about 1/4 aboriginal. But it was their aboriginal psyche that remained dominant.

I am pleased to be able to say that one of these girls -- Joy Williams -- who was a total mess when I first met her in 1964, over a period of time got her act together and went to university and became a spokesperson for aboriginals.

We established a deep personal bond that never weakened over the years. On one occasion when we were having a weekend away at Caves Beach, just south of Jervis Bay, we drove by the aboriginal settlement. This woman, Joy, quivered with intense emotion upon coming so close to her own kind.

Well I could go on and on because I have had close encounters with so many aboriginal people.

between equal rights and special considerations.

Give people that RIGHT to be the most they strive to be, regardless of race, color or even gender! ;\

Do NOT make special concessions based on any of these differences.

If the aboriginals are taking advantage of the programs and getting away with it, maybe not so stupid after all?

I have seen this with people that were mentally retarded. They KNEW that if they played dumber than they are, they could get people to do their work for them. But if you watch them when they don't realize your watching, they do it just fine.

Who is the dumby after all? They know, and it isn't them.

by mjwx May 2, 2006

It is important to remember JD that autistic people are a lot more intelligent than us, they just are completely unable to tell anyone.

Autistic people can memorise a phone book, some intelligence is required to categorically remember all that data.

by tonythetiger May 2, 2006

Is it they who cannot integrate with you, or you who cannot integrate with them?

Your statement is meaningless.

My statement was: [i]"They are quite unable to integrate with the predominantly Caucasian general populace."[/i]

Now who are you to know whether that is a valid observation or not?

I have never had any problem with "integrating" with aboriginals on a personal level, if that is what you are implying.

Incidentally although Australia is a much younger country than America, we do not refer to aboriginals as "nigger," "black" or "boy." In my lifetime they have only been referred to as aboriginals or aborigines, and in these days of political correctness they are sometimes referred to as indigenous.

How they were addressed before I was born, I wouldn't know.

by mjwx May 2, 2006

I know an aboriginal who while not very well educated has worked all of his adult life. Mostly manual labour (construction industry for the most part) but he seems to enjoy it. He's never claimed any race benefit although he was on custody for the last year of high school.

He?s a good bloke with a good sense of humour and doesn?t take race as seriously as some of the white people around him as well spoken as any other 25 yr old. If he wasn?t black you would have a hard time telling he was an aboriginal.

Growing up in the north west of WA has taught me that this is the exception to the rule and near absolute proof life is what you make it.

The highest position any aboriginal reached that I know of was federal senator -- Senator Neville Bonner.

Was he a full blood? Not on your cotton-picking life.

[i]Neville Bonner was born in 1922. His mother was an Aborigine, but he never knew his father, an Englishman who went back to England before Neville was born.[/i]

I recall that I interviewed an aboriginal of some standing in about 1964, for a church fellowship magazine. I have a feeling that it was this same person, but before he became senator. I remember being surprised that he was quite eloquent. I was accused of being racist by my Christian peers for even entertaining such a thought.

But generally speaking, aboriginals -- whether full-blood or part-blood -- have extreme difficulty expressing themselves in the English language.

The political activism, as mentioned previously, is initiated by white do-gooders.

We have developed this ridiculous system in Australia that whenever a mining company for example wants to do some exploratory drilling, lo and behold, someone remembers that it was an aboriginal sacred site.

So either the development doesn't proceed, or the alleged traditional owners of the land get a good cut from the profits.

Now here is a wonderful example of how some aboriginals "appreciated" public housing that was provided for them. They tore up the floor boards and anything else that was combustible, for use as firewood.

But then in all fairness, what else could you expect from a race of people who had only ever lived in simple shelters constructed from bark.

Unlike Africans, Australian aboriginals had never developed proper living structures, or any kind of agriculture or animal husbandry. They were nomads living off the land in the simplest possible fashion.

If some people find the description "dumb" offensive, I will happily settle for "less evolved."

What other people on the face of the earth, or in recorded history, could develop a musical instrument which plays only one note?

by sleepin'dawg May 2, 2006

And if you've got a nice booty that will definitely help as well. What's that? Can't hear a word you're saying. I think I've just gone deaf.
Brrrrrrrrrrrup!!! ;)

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by gadgetgirl May 2, 2006

erm.

thanks.

I think.

Ah.

[i] some people [/i] think I have a nice "booty"....

oh, 'eck - where's NITS (tm) when you need him....I hope that means what I think it means, otherwise I'm in bloody big trouble.....and the french maids uniform..... :x

]:) :p

Do you really need me to explain?

What is the NEXT thing guys look at after the DD's?

It is THE ONLY reason guys hold doors open for ladies! So we can watch your butt as you sashay on by! ;\

Common street term also used it "Baby got Back!", although when that term is used, it is prefering a larger "back". "some meat on them bones!"

Not much into an abundance of meat myself, but find it less and less important if it isn't on my computer screen..... :0

Hope it is a SHORT uniform! Excuse me, will you get that book off the top shelf please? You can use this ladder! Oh, let me hold the ladder so you don't fall my dear! ]:)

by jaqui May 2, 2006

fine, send me people of double the required numbers that have the skills to do the job. I'll hire those that are best qualified.

Then I'll hand them the lfs cd and a printout and say that the base for employment is to have this completed in one 8 hour work day.
you supply the pc with no os on it for them to prove to you they are qualified before sending them on to me.

protest away Jessie and Al, I only support causes I beleive in, like alternative energy sources.

by gadgetgirl May 2, 2006

I was just checking.

I'm the type of person who had to be told twice that a dongle was really, actually, a piece of computer kit....

(well, I can live in hope, can't I?! :D )

As for your preference......hey, I only said they were DD's - I didn't say what size!!

What you guys don't realise is that they can go, sizewise, from a 30DD to a 60DD, and yes, that last one is a US size....!

And no, [b] I AM NOT [/b] telling you where I fall (hah! literally!) within those boundaries.... :p)

Glad I was right, I may not end up in the maids uniform after all.

I may just stick with the schoolgirl one.

Or maybe the can-can one.....

Dawg! Do we have a can-can one? Or is that a can't-can't?? :p

]:)

I have the pics already! ONE revealing pic is worth MORE than a thousand words! ]:)

was that he was advocating the addition of more places not the change of places. There is a limit to the number of places that the govt can fund, and this is usually less than those that can fit in the classrooms. So if people pay for more places then more are in the classroom and more money is available at the uni for teaching that subject.

So paying students would not be taking places of non-paying students but adding more to the classrooms and money to the uni as paying students pay more than the govt does.

When I went to CIT they hard govt funded students, fee paying Aust students, and full fee paying foreign students (more than the Aussie students). Classes being run each semester were based on expected numbers. However extra classes for subjects could be run if they got enough enrollments, for govt funded students they needed 12 students, for fee paying Aussies they needed 9, for full fee paying foreign students they needed 7 - to ensure that the cost of running the class was covered by the money received. With enough fee paying students they could offer more govt funded positions as well.

Through the entire tertiary system fee paying students subsidise the course delivery costs to some extent and support the govt funded students.

But did it become legislation? You have not answered that.

Because he is a Howard "yes-man," I was assuming that he was putting forward policy that would be in line with Howard's efforts to create an elite ruling group and a non egalitarian society.

As my local member he is considered by most of the electorate to be two-faced -- saying one thing to his constituents, and another in parliament.

When it was raised it was put up as a concept not a specific draft legislation. However, it first arose at the same time as the Voluntary Student Unionsim thing and that has just recently gone to parliament as actual legislation - so it may be recently passed or before parliament now.

RE the VSU my sister went to union in the 1970's when it was voluntary and I went, as a mture age student, in the mid 1990's. Compared to the cost of a loaf of bread I paid about twice as much as my sister and got less than a third of the services. All the things that a student really needed, like the cafe etc, were charged at the same price as the nearest retail alternatives and lower quality service - in my sister's day she got 10 or 15% discount on everything by being a union member. Another difference was in her day the SU did NOT make political donations but did provide a service whereby you could - nearly all SUs in the 1990's made significant political donations to the ALP. In the 1970's the SU heavily subsidised uni representitive sports team but not attendance at political rallies - in the 1990's sports teams were lucky to get a 50% cut on the uniform costs but political rallys got all expenses paid by our SU. A real help to the students, yeah. (DE leaves soapbox)

by sleepin'dawg May 2, 2006

and what Jd doesn't know can't hurt him. Besides he's on a male kick these, sort of like Jack in Will and Grace. (you might not get this but he will) Get ready for more protestations of denial from Jd.
BTW where in hell is Mark. He's usually good for this stuff and if Mambo is reading, we can expect his rosy red glow to put in an appearance any moment now.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

I can only assume from the tone of your post that it is something that is not intended as a complement.... :0

This, to sweet, lovable me. :(

When something is just given away, it is seen as having little value.

I am currently going back to school for an additional degree, and I can within the first week of class tell the students that are working to pay their way vs getting a free ride from the government or mom/dad in the way they perform in the class.

The free riders are lucky to show up, don't do the assignments, and complain if class runs the full length.

A the end of class, they act surprised that the "jerk teacher" gave them a bad grade.

someone slap these people for me, please?

by jamesrl May 2, 2006

In Canada, tuition for a Bachelors is highly subsidized (about 2/3 of the cost) for Canadian citizens, but the fees are set by the university, and more popular/challenging universities set higher fees, so there is some level of market force at work. Foreign students pay full cost.

When I went to university, there were student loans and grants available to students who were accepted, based on need - parental income etc. Since then the costs have gone up and most of the grants have dissapeared.

Masters degrees - you pay the full cost. As it should be....

One of the best ways of organizing it in Canada are co-op degrees. In a co-op program, instead of school for 8 months and work for 4, you enrol in a program of 6 months in school and 6 months in a co-op job related to your degree where your work performance becomes part of your overall marks. You get paid a decent amount and that can usually mean few if any loans. And at the end of the day you have both a degree and some good experience. One of the companies I worked for hired lots of them, and many ended up being hired full time when they completed their degree. The co-op programs are very competitive to get into, especially computer science at Waterloo, as Microsoft does a lot of recruiting from there.

I'd have no problems with making loans easier, and maybe bringing back more grants but I would not favour throwing the doors open wide and making it free for everyone.

James

for all State Colleges.

you only pay 1/3 of the costs.

Because the government has been so gleefully throwing so much money their way, the costs of tuition in Michigan have been about triple what inflation is EVERY YEAR.

When people pay for it themselves, all of a sudden it DOES matter how much this costs. until then, they cut state funding for our schools and then blame Bush for it. (federal funding for education is high, not low under Bush).

While it is reasonable for them to provide accomodations for physical shortcomings, like the keyboard, others need a ramp because they can't walk steps. All are REASONABLE accomodations to make.

But all are NOT reasons to move to the front of the line.

While there are many out there that don't CARE how they get something, cheat/lie/steal, anything to get [i]ahead[/i] (yes gg, I saw that), there are others in life that have that pesky thing called "self respect". They are where they are today based on their own hard work and it MEANS something when they accomplish something.

Anyone that supports Affirmative Action IS a racist, just not towards blacks, so that makes it ok somehow.

wear the schoolgirl uniform for more, come to think of it no need to wear any uniform for me - just wear your radiant self, that will be sufficient.

I know did. Mind you this was about 30 years ago and involved a company that supplied mainframe computer spare parts, many of which were refurbished by the company's technical staff. For years they employed 90 plus staff and then when their staff levels went over 100 they got bounced with regulations about having so many employees from minority groups. Appearantly the regs only applied to businesses with 100 employees or more. His biggest problem was finding minority group people with the relevant technical training and prepared to work where the business was in Colorado. After 9 months he was unable to find enough that had the quals and liked the area.

The govt bounced him for being below the numbers and put him on notice, they also said that since he had passed the magic 100 the regs now applied even if he dropped back below 100 employees. Seems the legislators thought people might try to avoid it by dropping back below the radar and had a clause that dealt with that.

He dealt with the problem by selling the company assets and closing up shop as to meet the govt regulations he would have ahd to employ 10 more people who had no work to do, that meant prices would have gone above genuine new parts prices. Since he could see the laws making the business close down he chose to do it while it could be done profitably.

A few months later he set up another business that did similar work but not the higher end technical refurbishment and only employed 40 people. One of his ex staff set up a business that did the high end technical refurbishment and employed only 45 people.

The end result of the govt regulations was instead of one comapny employing 103 people, everybody had no work for 6 months and two new companies only employed 85 people all up, a final loss of 18 jobs. Most of which were in the lower education bracket type work as the new operations used less of them as those tasks were now done by machinery.

of how Democrats ruin everything they touch.

are referred to as The Democrats, as the short way of saying their name. I always spell that as Dumbocraps as it explains all the thought behind their policies and behaviour in one word - their greatest hero is Stalin - at least thwt is what is implied by their policies.

I was born here in Australia, as was my mother, dad was born in Yorkshire. But between them and the two generations before them we can count

Irish, Scottish x 2, Italian, Welsh x 2, English x 3, Australian x 2, French, and two we do not know where they were born yet. And our family name is an Anglicised Welsh name on dad's side and an old Scottish name on mum's side.

When you consider the old hates and wars with how much the Welsh and English, the Scottish and English, the Irish and English, French and English, Welsh and Irish, Scottish and Irish all hated and fought with each other I cannot afford to get prejudiced about any ethnic or cultural group or I could end up hating myself like crazy.

by mjwx May 3, 2006

just being scottish will give you enough enemies. Here's the abridged list

Scots vs English
Scots vs Welsh
Scots vs Irish
Scots vs Scots
Scots vs Germans
Scots vs French
Scots vs Scots
Scots vs Italians
Scots vs Scots
Scots vs Yanks
Scots vs Scots
Scots vs Scots

I'm sure everyone has the idea by now.

I resemble that remark!

Glad you left out us Geordies.

Otherwise you'd have had a [b]REAL [/b] fight on your hands......

by tig2 May 3, 2006

I can so relate to this-
Father = Scot, Native American
Mother = English, German

I ended up in a family of VERY white skinned, brown-eyed brunettes. I am an olive-skinned, hazel-eyed redhead that tans if I get warm. Odd how genetics works...

I ever decide to go racist, I would have to start by biting my own tail. And frankly I am just not that limber anymore.

by jaqui May 3, 2006

needs I say more? ]:)

Dawg - shouldn't that have read "Willie, Willie"??!!

Ernest - shame on you! I always wear some sort of uniform; could be the seduction outfit, the can-can kit, the schoolgirl outfit with the short skirt, the french maids get-up or the nurses outfit complete with stethescope (yup, remember where I work, guys!)

Funny how your initials are apt.....DE....Deadly Ernest....hah!

As for my birthday suit.....nah. Doesn't exactly need ironing, but could do with a good steaming......

:D ]:)

T2, I know just what you mean!

The rest of my family can sunbathe as long as they like, not burn, and end up a nice healthy looking brown sorta colour.....

Me? Very white skinned, freckles that show at a single ray of sunshine, get heat eczema, blocked sweat glands, and my own pus-filled version of prickly heat! Yes, I look wonderful when I've been in the sun for more than 10 minutes.....! :D

And that's apart from the fact that every female on my mothers' side of the family, going back umpteen generations, all have brown eyes. Me? Green.

Every female on both sides of the family are at the very least five feet four inches in height. Me? Five foot and a very important little bit.

And I'm still the only person I know at my age whos' mother can still pat her on the head, cos she still taller than me!!

Genetics? GRRRRR!! :p

by jaqui May 3, 2006

he didn't mention the geordies cause they are just displaced scots. :p

Maybe it doesn't need an ironing, but I bet it could use a good pressing! ]:)

And of course, nothing keeps a good suit like that in shape like a good babyoil rub! ;\

and most Geordies are a mix of Scot and English, anyway.

('part from me, of course, I'm originally a Border Reiver.....so there!)

Still, most people your side of the pond, and about 80% of the idiots over here still think that Newcastle is in Scotland.....

]:)

by oneamazingwriter May 3, 2006

Father = Native American (Penobscot) + English
Mother = Irish + German

As I read your post I chuckled, because we tend to hold the same philosophy. If we wind up thinking a lot alike I'll just change my name to Pooh and we can wander off in search of a honey jar. ( You will help; won't you?)

I have twin boys, age 14.

The don't even look like brothers.

Thing One, dark complexion, taller, leaner, dark hair. (my dads traits) Wears size 11 shoes. (I wear 10 1/2) Probably 5'4" He will be taller than me in two years.

Thing Two, VERY fair complexion. Blisters in about 20 minutes. About 2 inches shorter than his brother, dirty blonde hair. (The ex-whore's fathers characteristics) Wears size 8 1/2 shoes. Probably 5'2" Should end up right around 5'10".

People give me a strange look when I tell them they are twins, because most people it seems are uneducated to the fact that not all twins look the same, and are just brothers that happened to be born at that same time.

I worked in a wood shop, and the people were not autistic. It was a mild retardation, with the motor skills affected.

They were NOT as dumb as they would let on to some of the people, because they KNEW that some would feel sorry for them, others would see it as easier to just do it themselves.

I worked with these people for 8 years, and they knew how to play it up.

I forgot, why are we talking about this? :D

challenged people, apart from the politicians that is. I think you have got the thread alignment wrong and are responding to a comment by Jardinier.

However, I agree with you that some milk the situation for all they can - but there are others who have some self-respect and try to do the best that they can.

People often tell my I am psychic and I tell them that I am psychotic as it fits my mental health challenges / problems better - I have Aspergers and have never received any sort of special assistance for this yet have managed all my life, somehow.

the point is that more people are more capable than most people give them credit for.

by mjwx May 3, 2006

Rather than making a generalisation

Why are we talking about this? I dont know. My mind takes me in weird directions, question is why are your following? :)

by jdclyde May 4, 2006

because I don't have anywhere I have to be... :D Just along for the ride! B-)

(talking 'bout this because of Julians comment about the mental abilities of the natives that are getting restless) ;\

by rob mekel May 3, 2006

That Newcastle is on the save side of the hadrian-wall? Pweeww, so Geordies (mind you with capital :) ) ain't raven barberians of the north.

May be that's why you sound so nice :) , like a kitten snoozing in the sun :D ;) . [i]BTW it's nice, sunny and hot outhere (+25 C) Just the weather you would like to make a boat trip[/i]

Rob

edited for typo on weather

by jamesrl May 3, 2006

I can trace my scottish heritage back to that King, and rather than being some point of vain pride, its more of an amusement. I do like the King James Bible for its poetry.

I have found myself watching "Cromwell" and Alec (my son's name) Guiness' portrayal of James II and pointing out our ancestry to our son. Just of course before he gets his head lopped off.

You of course forgot to mention that the scots' greatest enemy is other scots. Highlanders versus lowlanders (and borderers, lets nay go there), Catholics versus Protestents...it goes on for ever. It was remarkable given that history that we ever had a scot on the throne of Britain.

James

if only Gale Force 24 would stop blowing for five flippin' minutes!

Still the squirrels are out playing chasies, so it's a good day..... :D

As a Direct Descendent of a Border Reivers Clan, I take umbrage!

Umbrage, I tell you, Umbrage!

There, I've taken it.....

Well, we did try to stop Mary heading into England by setting her coach on fire, but some bright spark ran it into a river.......

Is this where I get my liking for "hot things" ???

;)

by rob mekel May 3, 2006

Positive discriminated as being member of a minority, non-native dutch, woman, disabled and so on, is in order in the Netherlands
.
Politics ain't that far that they will skipp the positive discrimination. Altho on sollicitating for an govermental job, local, state (provincial) or country wise, some of the local governments give the sollicitation letter a non-recognizable tread as to all aspects of racism of any kind.

This to get the best man/woman for the job.
[i] now on to the sollicitation interview with blind screens and voice scrablers to avoid recognition ;\ :0 ;) [/i]

Rob

by rob mekel May 3, 2006

That should give a nice work-out :0 :D :^0
Baby-oil?? as if the sweating being rubbed in wouldn't keep the suit in a nice shape. :8} :0

[i]temperature alone does make it sweatingful weather overhere. ;) [/i]

Rob

editedcfor damned emoticon ;)

First GG about that Umbrage - PUT IT BACK, the towns people need it where it belongs - bloody kleptomaniacs.

Secondly, being of ancient Welsh ancestry (from the house of Poyes) I get a good laugh about the number of Welsh kings England had and they did not even know it. The house of Tudor is an old Welsh house from the border country that changed their name from, I hope I remember the spelling properly, Twdyr (or something similar would have to spend a week to find the book with the original reference. They changed the spelling to get on better with the Normans by making it look more Norman than Welsh - bloody turncoats.

they seem to be a bit different. Please note that full tribal behaviour and attitudes is different to the fringe dweller ones.

BTW I seem to remember that Coe is not a full blood but 3/4. One full blood parent and one 1/2. Full bloods want nothing to do with him or people like Perkins.

Please do not speak to me about Redfern, years ago I used to have to patrol that when I was in the NSW Police Force. Contrary to media statements it has NOT gotten worse but is the same as it has been for many decades.

I agree Gough Whitless gave them the free gravy train and Bobby boy expanded it in the 1980's. All this free stuff has only made matters worse.

The main problems are from the core cultural beliefs about individual worth and ownership of property.

Property first - There are some well known cultures that have a no individual property ownership of land as the core of their culture: Australian Aboriginals, PNG Highlanders, Bushmen of the Kalihari (hope I spelt that right). They recognise ownership of personal items like spears etc but land and food is all community owned. This makes for a major variation in the perspective of the world - all these cultures have major trouble adjusting to the world view of the land ownership cultures.

The concept of individual self worth for ALL people is also outside the core culture of many of the Aboriginal tribes, many see only adult males as having any worth or value and any rights. Again a major conflict with the more European perspective.

Another core aspect of many Aboriginal tribal culture is to avoid direct individual confrontation - most happens via tribal council, or with group support, or from hiding - developed as a defence mechanism from living in small wandering groups. The concept of going 'walkabout' has grown out of this as it is one way to avoid problems.

Remember it took the Europeans several thousands of years to go from wandering hunter gatherers to be sit around agricultural types - the Aboriginals have had a bit over 200 years to make the same adjustments.

I grew up in Sydney and lived in Newtown for a while, with many friends in Redfern and surrounds. I also have lived in Canberra for 13 years. Whilst I was in Canberra a problem was noted at a school in a large government housing area that was mostly Aboriginal residents - many kids skipped school and performed well, they were undernourished. Local community support organisations got together and provided a hot breakfast 3 days a week. The school attendance rose from the low 60% to 95% on those days. After 18 months of this program there was a much lower rate of absenteeism and average grades went up. Investigation showed that the problem was due to differences in cultural attitudes to meals and the care of children.

All these attitudes etdc get passed down from parent to child to grandchildren etc unless someone breaks the cycle. Where children are removed from parents and placed in european style care while young the cycle gets broken. Where an individual works at breaking the cycle it gets broken. The cycle continues amongst the fringe dwellers because the ALP under Whitless and continued under Hawke established a process of telling them they were different and did not need to change and gave them free money - proble has grown larger everytime more money has been thrown at it.

What is interesting is that there are very few of these problems in the Aboriginal communities that are still living the full tribal cultures - the problems occur in the mixed situations that are refrred to as fringe dwellers as they are on the fringe of one cuture or the other or both.

Some mixed breeds learn enough to manage well in the european culture but still work the 'Poor Aboriginal' card for special extras etc. Perkins is such an esxample, then there is that Aboriginal magistrate that is sure all the police are racists against Aboriginals - even the Aboriginal police.

BTW there are a number of Aboriginal people in the various police forces who have done very well because they have not allowed the fringe dweller problems to adversely affect them.

by jardinier May 4, 2006

Yes you are correct of course. I have never interacted with full-bloods in the natural tribal setting.

Many of the most significant and interesting experiences in my life revolved around the Wayside Chapel, Kings Cross.

[i]Ted Noffs' first parish was 65,000 square miles of the Australian outback, centred on Wilcannia, NSW. The insight gained into Aboriginal people through this appointment led Mr Noffs later to work among them in Sydney and to establish, with Charles Perkins, the Foundation for Aboriginal Affairs in 1963.

In 1970 he initiated the Breakfast Program, with mobile unit, for Aboriginal children in Redfern, Sydney.[/i]

It is interesting what you say about Paul Coe and Charles Perkins -- I was not particularly impressed by Perkins either.

However because of my very close and personal relationship with Ted Noffs, I do believe that he tried to help aboriginals. He actually had a theory that Australian aboriginals were the first humans on the planet.

Obviously this is a subject you and I could talk about for days, but obviously you have had a much closer and more diverse contact with these people than myself.

by deadly ernest May 4, 2006

both diretly and indirectly. I have worked with Aboriginals in urban and rural settings, mixed bloods and full-bloods. The worst was dealing with mixed bloods in Redfern when I was a cop in Sydney in the 1970's. However, by then, I had already learnt that they were NOT representative of all Aboriginals. I had an older cousin who spent decades working with Aboriginals in the tribal environments in Central Australia - so much so that she was adopted by one tribe shortly before she retired from working.

I had, and still do have, a lot of respect for Ted as I think he truely understand the fringe dweller problem and realised that the FDs were not able to slip back into the full tribal culture and was seeking to draw them all the way into the european culture. he did a lot of good work but never fully succeeded. Just when he was realy getting somewhere Whitless started the big gravy train and a lot of the FDs started to wonder "Why should I bother if I can get it free." And I can't realy fault them for that.

the biggest problem facing them today is that the few activists are getting an excessive amount of publicity and creating negative sterotypes that are having an adverse affect on all the Aboriginal peoples. People are people and each should be taken for themselves - WITH a small consideration for their level of education and ignorance. Way too many mistake ignorance for stupidity, and they are not the same.

Anyway I think we will both go through the rest of life accepting people for what they are themselves and not some silly stereotype.

there is nothing quite like a full body rub, and the oils (warmed of course) ARE needed for this.

Track down the video, "Sensual Massage" and you will learn a thing or three! ]:)

The pressing is for later. Plenty of time for that in a bit. ;\

As for sweat, nothing is more of a turn off than dripping sweat in the face of that someone special. That is why God created air conditioning, dontchaknow? B-)

Keep reading, and you will learn.

by tonythetiger May 3, 2006

just asking. Usually it is the newcomer who should integrate with the native (and I fully realize the US failed in that respect as well.)

by jardinier May 4, 2006

I don't think history would vindicate what you suggest. The newcomer has invariably been a colonizer who has mistreated and exploited the native inhabitants of any country.

The part of Australia that was first colonized -- Sydney -- was largely bushland. Much of this was cleared for farming and grazing.

Somewhere I have heard this phrase relating to that period: "If it moves, shoot it, and if it doesn't, cut it down."

Aboriginals were certainly severely abused in the early days of colonization, and in fact the colonziers managed to completely wipe out the native population of Tasmania. I guess you could justifiably call that genocide.

HOWEVER, from the point of view of white people who had never set eyes on black people before, I can understand why they thought these people were some kind of sub-humans. I doubt that there are many, if any, full-blood Africans in America today.

Very occasionally I see a pure African and their skin is so BLACK that I can understand the way whites first perceived aboriginals.

I doubt that the early settlers were even aware of the concept of racial equality.

I have a theory -- which is pure speculation as it could never be proved -- that the more assertive aboriginals who gave resistence to the whites were the ones who were killed off first, leaving the weaker members to procreate into those we now see as unable or unwilling to compete in our Western culture.

by tonythetiger May 4, 2006

because the victors write the history books!

"I have a theory -- which is pure speculation as it could never be proved -- that the more assertive aboriginals who gave resistence to the whites were the ones who were killed off first, leaving the weaker members to procreate into those we now see as unable or unwilling to compete in our Western culture."

You may be right. I've had a somewhat similar theory related to weaknesses in humanity in general and how and why they are 'allowed' to propagate.

and on this extremely liberal radio station, this is being pushed as the new "crow" attacks on blacks, and it is just another attempt by racists to UNFAIRLY attack blacks.

How long will it be before a black person is finally seen as a person, instead of a political tool?

Sorry for ANYONE that ever has to endure stupid hate based on the color of skin, but I do not support special provisions based on the color of skin either.

A side note, the speaker (woman, didn't catch her name) was saying that they need to get away from the "affirmative action" title because it has such a bad name, and is so polorizing. I wonder what the new name will be, and how long it will take to hit the airwaves?

by onbliss May 3, 2006

Say you come from India, one is bound to be asked about "caste" in the next few mintues :-)
The Indian Constitution supports a form similar to the "affirmative action" called the "Reservations" for sections of society that had been oppressed in the past, based on Caste. Well the Constitution also lends support to Anglo-Indians :-)

Politicians have used this as a tool to garner votes, and have been extending the Reservation System by amending the Constitution. And, this system has been overused and abused by people who get get away doing it.

Yes, it brought changes (in the positive direction) to several millions yet at the same time has not changed the lives of several millions. The Urbans have reaped the benefits, the same thing can not be said of the Rural folks.

Without such a system in place it is doubtful if the nation could life some of the its underprivileged class.

It is a dicey subject and one is bound to hear something about "reverse discrimination".

Human kind, how common we are........