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Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7146982

[i]MILLERSVILLE, Md. – A ninth-grader is protesting his school?s decision to broadcast the Pledge of Allegiance in foreign languages as part of National Foreign Language Week.

Patrick Linton said he and other students at Old Mill High School sat down rather than stand Wednesday when the pledge was read over the school?s public address system in Russian. Linton?s teacher told him if he had a problem he should leave the room.

He did, and did not plan to return this week.

?This is America, and we got soldiers at war,? the 15-year-old said. ?When you?re saying the Pledge in a different language which nobody understands, that?s not OK.?

Charles Linton, Patrick?s father, said the use of other languages is disrespectful to the country. ?It?s like wearing a cross upside down in a church,? he said.[/i]

Does somebody want to tell me… just HOW saying the pledge of allegiance in something other than English is DISRESPECTFUL?!?!?! I always thought it was the feeling and the meaning of the pledge that did it honor… not the language in which it was spoken.

Thoughts?

Topic

I’ll probably regret this……

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

(I’m Canadian…not American)

Not so much disrespectful as disgusting.
It was written in english & I’m assuming this school is english.

Why in hell would you say (your) POA in another language if it’s an ENGLISH school??

I’m bilingual (French & English). My primary language is english but I studied at frecnh schools all my life.

Whatever was said in school was FRENCH.

National Foreign Language week

In reply to I’ll probably regret this……

For National Foreign Language week, the school was doing the pledge of allegiance in both english and then in another language, different language each day.

Is saying the plege in Sign Language disrespectful or disgusting then?

ASL?

In reply to National Foreign Language week

American Sign Language? I doubt anyone would have a problem.

Some may have issues with some other form of sign language, though.

Personally, I don’t see why the Pledge couldn’t be stated in another language. If a school is for kids of hispanic decent, saying the pledge in Spanish and English can only help them identify who they are… USA citizens who primarily speak another language should be able to speak the Pedge in their preferred language.

Besides, hearing something familiar in another language helps people learn the differences, and *gasp* similarities, of cultures and people.

I don’t find code written in VB to be disgusting because the first version was written in Java…

For that matter, American English today is hardly what it was 200 years ago…

Language

In reply to ASL?

There is no national language, and Americans are free to use any language they want to speak. For practical reasons, we all pretty much agree to use English for public interchanges and in our schools. The thought police want us to be forced to use English at all times, but, thank goodness, we have a Constitution that guarantees us freedom of speech.
American Sign Language is only one of the sign languages used in the US, and its use is controversial, with hearing people often opposed to its use. Our public schools generally use Signed Exact English or Signed English, Deaf activists use ASL, and many Deaf communities have local signs that are used in their geographical area. Where I live, Mexican Sign language vocabulary is also part of the local patrois.
Language use and preference, and efforts to force others to use certain languages, are political and power-based decisions, and reflect a society’s definition of human rights. Prohibitions against using a language are usually part of an attempt to deny human rights and/or obliterate an inconvenient culture by those in power.
I live in a bilingual community (English and Spanish) and belong to a trilingual family (English, Spanish, and Korean) and I wouldn’t have it any other way. We have a friend who grew up in a Norwegian-speaking family (Minnesota), and an older friend who grew up in a German-speaking community in the midwest–even the public schools were in German. I have another friend who spoke Vietnamese as a small child, then French in school, and finally English (and Spanish). BTW, two are MD’s and one is a PhD. and there is evidence that learning multiple languages well increases one’s cognitive abilities.
I think what this school was doing is teaching America at its best. I can’t think of anything more symbolically patriotic tahn saying the pledge in English and then in French or Urdu or Catalan. We are all Americans!

Confusing foreign with enemy

In reply to National Foreign Language week

If the pledger is still speaking respect to our nation and flag, what is the issue? If it is being said in English and then in another language as a stated recognition of Foreign Language Week, then the student knows exactly what is being said. Foreign doesn’t equate to enemy, even if the language is Arabic.

His temper tantrum is very misplaced, and ignores the many people groups that make up our nation. If they skipped English, then there might be an issue, since that is our official language.

Indeed

In reply to Confusing foreign with enemy

Being a brit I would n’t take the pledge of allegiance in any language, so I fail to see why which language those who choose to take the pledge in is relevant. With the one proviso that someone who is deemed suitable to judge whether the pledge has been taken understands what has been pledged.

I pledged allegiance

In reply to Indeed

Well I didn’t KNOW the pledge but I still respected those around me and stood facing their flag as they showed their respect. I was at McCord (sp?) AFB in Tacoma, I am onYOUR soild I will respect YOUR customs. It doesn’t mean I pledge allegiance to your country or your flag, it’s that I respect YOUR pledge to your flag as an ally.

I have seen Americans stand and mumble through the Canadian national anthem, I have sung the US national anthem. Who cares? It doesn’t make me American, I am not sworn in before doing so.

I just choose respect your, or any country’s customs when I am in your country.

As for learning another country’s language (what this is REALLY all about) who wouldn’t want their child to become culturally diverse? That’s just completely anal and retarded.

who wouldn’t want their child to become culturally diverse?

In reply to I pledged allegiance

.
Keep your eyes open. They are all around.

Exactly!

In reply to who wouldn’t want their child to become culturally diverse?

It’s very nice to see how many people see the stupidy of all this. Sometimes I have been shocked to hear support for other matters I deem similar in their absurdity though.

Keep your ears open…

In reply to who wouldn’t want their child to become culturally diverse?

There are 5000 languages on earth alone,
all of them functional, all of them bearing content

Tribute goes to Steve Wozniak, hardware hero

a week off

In reply to I pledged allegiance

Wow, what a way to get a week out of school! This kid is smart and his parents are stupid. I can’t believe this is even an issue. It’s foreign language week! At least it was our Pledge and not another country.

Sounds like this kid needs another week off for missing this week (better yet, he should have to make it up in summer school) and his parents need fined for keeping their kid out of school. If my daughter misses school unexcused for so many days, I can be fined for it. Fortunately, I haven’t had that experience. I wonder, is his absence considered unexcused?

I don’t believe I’m showing

In reply to Indeed

a lack of respect for not joining in, those who wish to pledge can, what language they do it in shouldn’t matter.
What are the consequences for an american who doesn’t take it.

NO consequences

In reply to I don’t believe I’m showing

It’s not like taking an oath or anything, your ID isn’t checked.

While the POA is a promise to seek your country’s values (in a nutshell)it is taken differntly as far as its importance and depth by most people.

It’s no different that singing God Save The Queen or the National Anthem etc., really.

Now I know MANY Amerians will get all pissed off and refer to history and in depth meanings and purpose of the PoA, but while all that is true again I think the depth of it’s importance varies by the individual and perhaps grows stringer as they mature. Just like any other national prayer, song or tribute, it means more to some than to others.

A Canadian would really have no reason to RECITE the PoA, nor would it hold any relevance or meaning at all, yet I think sitting would be VERY rude and simply standing quietly while facing their flag is simply a sign of acceptance and respect.

For someone to sit in PROTEST of the way their own pledge is said in another language, including their own of course, is just ridiculous. No wonder there is so much separation in the world, it seems everyone wants to say they aren’t racist until it comes down to their own values or possessions. “Yes we should all be equal, as long as i don’t have to accept or change anything myself.”

A little give and take that’s all. Nobody is asking you to change your beliefs, religion, trust, faith or anything like that. Just welcome a little diversity and most of all KNOWLEDGE in a SCHOOL for god’s sake! How can some kids parents say that learning something new or gaining some cultural knowledge/diversity is a bad thing for a kid in school?

You got me wrong

In reply to NO consequences

I wouldn’t sit down through anyone elses pledge, nor do I do the hiss and boo bit during someone elses national anthem. If I ‘m going to get into a fight it will be about something I care about, not the officials elected or otherwise of my country, or the majority. If they want to fight with me as a member of a minority, I’ll call them wimps while I’m bobbing and weaving.
I stand up in church as well but I don’t sing the hymns or say the prayers, because I believe it shows disrespect to someone’s beliefs to pay lip service to them.
Course you’ll be waiting a long time to see me kneel in church, there are some things I just won’t do, but I’d leave before I disrespected those who felt it was necessary.
I have talked to some whi view not being willing to say the Pledge as some form of treachery though

It is treachery

In reply to NO consequences

Anything like that would be considered completely unAmerican, would alienate you from your peers and you would be sitting with parents in front of the principal in no time.

Most country’s people don’t take their government and country’s customary ‘rituals’ so seriously, but in America they certainly seem to.

That’s a pretty hefty consequence

In reply to NO consequences

being branded as a traitor.
Peer pressure, such a wonderful thing.

Say hello

In reply to NO consequences

You’re on TR.

When I said I didn’t care about Canada’s government and what they are up to everyday, I was also told I wouldn’t protect my family, am a ‘bad Canadian’ and other little rants from the south. It gets pretty stupid sometimes. :p

Whooops,,,,I missed that line (thanks)

In reply to National Foreign Language week

Thanks for pointing that out. Then the students attitude needs “tweaking”.

That’s disrespectful & gross in this day & age.

(Hard day for me today….I must have read a french twist in your post LOL)

Wonder where a grade school kid got such an attitude?

In reply to Whooops,,,,I missed that line (thanks)

Unfortunately you are faced with an older generation that still thinks like Archie Bunker, how are kids supposed ot learn otherwise unless the school is allowed to do such multicuturally aware programs?

F****n parents without a clue!

For that week

In reply to Wonder where a grade school kid got such an attitude?

The kids attitude sucks……………..his parents probably demonstrate predjudice.

It was a special week & the students were asked to show & demonstrate respect to other cultures.

Bottom line, the kids(s) are wrong but the parents have issues as well.

Archie was funnier than hell………….but he’s been replaced by Red Foreman & Kittie LOL

Red’s pretty tame though

In reply to For that week

I am a huge fan but Red’s all bark, he hates EVERYTHING, he’s not just racial. People in general just piss him off, I get like that sometimes too.

But Kittie’s pricesless! I loved her on Friends and now think she’s great on 70’s Show.

Exactly

In reply to Red’s pretty tame though

Wife says I’m a lot like him.

I do hate everything, I don’t have a problem with that. LOL

The 70’s Show

In reply to Red’s pretty tame though

I love the way Red puts pretentious people down in “The 70’s Show”. Also, I love Donna on the show, she is so hot, one of the best looking women on TV, and stands up for herself at the same time.

That’s HOT Donna to you

In reply to Red’s pretty tame though

She won that gig back twice!

His parents probably wear their sheets at night while out burning crosses!!

In reply to Wonder where a grade school kid got such an attitude?

You would think these crackers would have learned a little more tolerance in this day and age. A sad example of ingrained racism and isn’t it just wonderful how these people have managed to pass it on, completely intact, to their child. I’ll just bet these a$$holes are all products of inbreeding.

Dawg 🙁

Harsh, but when it fits…

In reply to His parents probably wear their sheets at night while out burning crosses!!

.
“This day and age”? We are in a backslide. The nature of social change is cyclic. It takes generations for real social change to take hold. This child, his child or the next may make it out of this closeminded set, but it will happen. It has to.

We can only hope!!!

In reply to Harsh, but when it fits…

Hope for the best but prepare fror the worst!

Dawg 🙁

?

In reply to His parents probably wear their sheets at night while out burning crosses!!

Mr. Dawg, you seem to be the racist SOB here.

Just curious: Dawg drops a racial explitive here and no one pays attention. If someone drops the n-bomb on this site, how many milliseconds will pass before he is banned?

As a honkey/cracker myself…

In reply to ?

I wondered even as a child at the disparity between these racial epithets… It occurred to me at age 6 that honkey/cracker was NO WHERE NEAR as insulting as nigger. I’ve been called a honkey, and a cracka-ass-cracka, and it’s never bothered me as much as one of my racially mixed children being called a nigger.

Anyone who truly thinks that cracker is a real-honest to goodness racial epithet, is probably pretty thin-skinned.

Jess

In reply to ?

Kinda like bein called a limey. SOME people think it is a degrading and racial slur, but TECHNICALLY, being from Southern England I am considered a Kipper (much more scathing I know, LOL).

I have been chasitzed here for referring to a friend as black, but is THAT really racist when he too refers to himself as black? I don’t use it to segregate him from others but it is a descriptive term, just as he would refer to me as being white.

I can’t call him Afro-American (he is originaly from/born in America but not Africa), I can’t just say the normal sized guy (he’s neither heavy nor thin so there’s no descriptive point of reference between him and other people at the party, if you know what I mean) so I refer to him as ‘the black guy that was playing pool, or the black guy that I was over with last week. He’s not offended and when we first met I did refer to him as African-American when we spoke, but he took that as offensive because he is NOT African, he’s American, now Canadian.

SOME people seem to think ANY mention of color no matter who it is used would be derogatory for some reason. I find most of these poeople are the ones having the hardest time with racial acceptance, they find a need to be overly PC about it for some reason.

I live in a place where we can call each other whatever we want without fear of people becoming racially defensive or offende. I don’t use the N word, I don’t call Asians ch***s, but I have a great time with a Chinese friend when we laugh at Chinese drivers, his inability to use an S to pluralize scissor(s) etc. There doesn’t seem to be the racial hangups I read so much about here, I think thta is why I often feel that Canada is far mroe racialy accepting than many parts of the US, it is NEVER an issue here it seems, everyone just does their thing together whether black, white, blue, green or whatever.
I can’t believe how many times RACE is an topic of discussion with US peers, it never seems to play a part in those I hang out with.

Why do people have such a hangup with race? All races seem to be more acceptable to fight for a country, why must we pussy-foot and pretend there’s no physial difference between us? There IS a difference in our color, often in our culture too, but I don’t see it as derogatory unless put into a negative context.

Saying my black friend when I refer to my black friend is not derogatory or racist, saying ‘that n****r that I was with’ IS derogatory though.

Some people’s kids! 😉

Seems obvious that he got it from …

In reply to Wonder where a grade school kid got such an attitude?

his family; most likely from his father, as witnessed by his father’s comment.

Don’t read this reply

In reply to Seems obvious that he got it from …

Jessie, what would you call an honest to goodness racial epithet, or are you of the opinion that racists only come in one color.

Incidentally, I’m not offended by cracker on a personal level. What bothers me is the double standard that any vile statement about whites is perfectly acceptable, yet any slightly questionable remark about non-whites is automatic racism and people like you join in the fray to condemn.

Racial Slur Database

In reply to Don’t read this reply

For a pretty complete list of racial slurs, you can check out this site http://www.rsdb.org

Most of them, I would call honest to goodness racial epithets, though even there, context plays into it quite a bit. I don’t get pissed off when one black guy calls another black guy “the N word” much like I don’t get pissed off when my husband who’s a fraggin’ geek, calls me a fraggin’ geek… context ya know… he’s earned the right to call me that.

I don’t get pissed off when my husband (a very nice black man) calls me a cracka-ass-cracka either… the only time he’s ever done that is when he was joking about one thing or another, but I would never, and I do mean NEVER call him “the N word.” Cracker just is not on the same level as other racial epithets. Gringo is closer… but still just not quite there. It’s not that racists only come in one color, but there just aren’t many commonly used white racial epithents that have quite the LEVEL of hatred associated with them. “Cracker” is more on the level of “redneck”, or “dumbass”… just not the same.

Under no circumstances

In reply to Seems obvious that he got it from …

Jessie, you wouldn’t say that Dawg’s use of the C-word was in a hateful context?
It’s on the list of racial slurs. When might an anti-white slur be considered racist, then? Or are you like the mayor of Detroit who believes that there’s no such thing as a racist non-white person?

No non white racists!

In reply to Under no circumstances

Man do you need to visit Japan to see real Racism in action.

I find it very hard to even get along with those people on their home ground but they are totally different people when overseas on holidays or business.

Then I like them but the same person while at home is a totally different person. 🙁

Col ]:)

Did you even READ anything more than the database?

In reply to Under no circumstances

WTF? Go back and read my entire post. Then stop crawlin’ up my butt.

Japan

In reply to Seems obvious that he got it from …

Never been to Japan but I understand that they’re very homogenous and not crazy about foreigers, and they’ve got every right to be, in my opinion.

Are they actually hostile or just discrespectful?

Both and NOT just in Japan

In reply to Japan

In BC we have a huge Asian communities, arguably some of he largest in North America.

Richmond BC is predominantly Asian now, not an exaggeration, it really is more Asian than anything else nowadays.

Peopledon’t even THINK about walkign into Asian malls there or TRYING to conduct business in the IT sector as you don’t have a hope ion hell if you are not Asian. I went to a video store, (couldn’t read a single sign not ONE English/French sign to be seen)to buy some blank tapes. I had a pack of three tapes and was in a line up at the counter. We all filed through the line no problem, when I got to the counter the Asian man behind the ocunter looked STRAIGHT past me and took the tapes the guy behind me anted to rent. KNowing this was common, I bit my tongue and waited until he was done, I then put my tapes on the counter and the cashier looked at me and held out his hand. I looked at the register to see the price gave him the money, he gave me change by just placing it on the counter and walking onto the store floor to attend to someone else. NO bag, NO thank you, NO here’s you change no NOTHING. There are two Aaisn malls down the street from there, I have walked through one as a shortcut, and been stared at like an alien.

THey are FAR more racial towards others than others are toward them. They only HIRE their OWN kind, they only serve their OWN kind etc. Caucasians are now the minority in Richmond and yet it is not seen as racial discrimination.

YOu want a drivers license in RIchmond, no joke, if you are asian you simply pay the guy at DMB and you have one in minutes, no test given. THey have fired a dozen people froim the Richmond DMV over the past 6 or so years, but it STILL happens, the next guy just takes over where the last left off.

It USED to be the same in Vancouver with the East Indian communities, but they no longer have such numbers when compared to Asians now, so they too are feeling the shock of being the minority and get discriminated against like everyone else does.

SO while it has been noted tht this happens in Japan, Japanese is but one VERY small portion of the Asian’s we have in BC and i agree they are for the most part VERY courteous and polite people. But when you add Philipino, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Laotian, and hoards of other communities in the mix, they deal between themselves, they show no interst in learnign the language or becoming a part of mainstream society and segregate themselves while discriminating against others.

Here’s a link to a thread on an Asian Website that has several Asian respondents saying that Vancouver is THE place to move. One has duly noted that RIchmond is a small suburb of Vancouver that actiually has a greater Asian population than Vancouver.
http://goldsea.com/AAD/aad_20901.html

Vancouver has one of the world’s largest China Towns, and that is a miniscule DOT compared to the Asian population in Richmond.

Aisans often come to Vancouver when pregnant, IF they give birth in Canada, that child is automatically a Canadian citizen. Later on that child can move BACK to Vancouver and sponsor his parents moving here too. This ‘free ride’ is currently being reviewed in the supreme courts.

But they are JUST as rude to non-Asians, and in most cases FAR RUDER, than I have seen any other race act towards them.

Jessie

In reply to Seems obvious that he got it from …

You didn’t answer my question, you just danced around it. I asked what would be a hateful anti-white slur since cracker wasn’t, you sent me a list, and cracker was considered a hateful slur according to the list, then you tell me to fuck off.

Doesn’t really matter because since you’ve revealed yourself to be a hypocrite anyway, I’m not real concerned about anything you say.

I’m such a hypocrite.

In reply to Jessie

So… first I said, “Anyone who truly thinks that cracker is a real-honest to goodness racial epithet, is probably pretty thin-skinned.”

Then I said, “It’s not that racists only come in one color, but there just aren’t many commonly used white racial epithets that have quite the LEVEL of hatred associated with them. “Cracker” is more on the level of “redneck”, or “dumbass”… just not the same.”

And YOU said, “Jessie, you wouldn’t say that Dawg’s use of the C-word was in a hateful context?
It’s on the list of racial slurs. When might an anti-white slur be considered racist, then? Or are you like the mayor of Detroit who believes that there’s no such thing as a racist non-white person?”

Now, granted, I may have caused a certain amount of confusion when I said cracker is not a real-honest to goodness racial epithet, when what I truly meant was what I said in my second response, that there just aren’t many white racial epithets that have the same LEVEL of hatred associated with them as so many of the racial epithets for other races… i.e. ni&&er, spic, chink. When compared to those, cracker, is pretty tame.

Have I made myself understood yet, or shall I repeat myself a few more times?

Jess

In reply to Jessie

YOu gotta love it when people make all kinds of comments directed at you, ask you to answer questions and then end with, but I don’t care because you are a hypocrite. Isn’t THAT just a wee bit hypocritical in itself? 😀

You haven’t answered my question, why not, what do you have to say about it? I don’t want to know what you think or say anyway you’re a hypocrite! ???:p

Hypocrite

In reply to Jessie

I said she was a hypocrite because white slurs are acceptable and black slurs are not. There’s no varying degrees as to what racial slur is more offensive or less offensive or a little more acceptable then another. They all boil down to the same thing. I thought that was pretty self-explanatory. Or should I explain myself a few more times.

Hmmm…

In reply to Jessie

Last I checked, believing there are varying degrees and nuances to language didn’t make one a hypocrite… wait, let me look it up.

Here ya go, from dictionary.com: n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold [syn: dissembler, phony, phoney, pretender].

Now, since you yourself said that you don’t personally find the word cracker offensive, wouldn’t that make YOU the hypocrite, as you’re trying to tell me that it IS offensive for Dawg to use it?

Have a nice day. 🙂

Dude

In reply to Jessie

Whites are not recovering from hundreds of years of repression where the name cracker was used as a derogative term. We don’t SUFFER from such comments the way others do, we are not the minority nor are segregated and repressed by our color.

Call me honky, I couldn’t care less, my ancestors weren’t stolen from their homes and beaten into slavery and called honkey’s to keep them repressed and identified as outcasts that were unacceptable by other races. Calling me a limey means nothing, calling a lbackman a n***** is completely repressive and a refelction of the pains their race has suffered for too many years.

It’s like calling a woman skinny, many laugh at Olive Oyl comments. Then try calling a woman FAT and you’ve got a different issue, it simply is unacceptable due to having a repressive society.

One last thought…

In reply to Jessie

And then I’m off this subject.

If you were a white person and were accosted by a few black guys, and were addressed with something like, ‘hey, cracka ass mothafucka’, would you just smile and say, ‘hey, thanks for noticing’, or would you be a wee bit offended.

I’m going to go under the assumption that you’ve not been exposed to that type of anti-white racism. I grew up in a area that was becoming increasingly black, and now it’s predominately black. I had to put up with crap like that on a daily basis when I was a kid, and I don’t ever remember thinking to myself, ‘he just called me a white bitch and threw rocks at me, that’s okay though, because it’s a faily benign racial slur, and it doesn’t have hundreds of years of history behind it, and he’s probably just pissed off because someone called him the n-word, I won’t worry about it.’

It’s the same thing. It’s still an insulting racial slur. Surely, then, a term like spear chucker or porch monkey would be perfectly acceptable, because it doesn’t have the history associated with it.

Incidentally, slaves were bought from their COUNTRYMEN who sold them to the Europeans, for a profit. Not defending the practice, but clearing up your slightly misleading statement.

Weighing in…

In reply to Jessie

Yes, there is racism towards whites by non-whites as well.

But I think all of you have ignored many thousands of years where whites enslaved other whites, so slurs aren’t limited to those addressed by members of other races.

The degree or level of the offense can best be measured by the target. Secondarily it can be rated by the intended hurtfulness of the statement issuer. The worst way to rate it is via a third party…

So no, not all slants are equal. But they all have the same potential.

In twelve years at school in the UK

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

I can’t remember a single formal patriotic act of this sort in any language – including English. And I was at school before PC.

I don’t think we see patriotism the same way…

You dont see PATRIOTISM the same way

In reply to In twelve years at school in the UK

Nobody in the world see patriotism the way an American does, not that it’s good or bad, I’m learning to accept the over zealous nature in which it is flaunted daily.

You DO sing God Save the Queen and stand in front of a picture of the queen. When I moved to Canada the first time, this was so in all Canadian classrooms too. It has since been removed as a daily routine and no they don’t sing Oh, Canada or pledge allegiance to poutine either.

The equivalent to patriotism in Britain is displayed through those who sing Rule Brittania and Royalists though. Except in America it is a daily routine that all student must attend. In other words, in Britain you would be forced to become a Royalist in school, like that would stick! LOL

Actually OZ

In reply to You dont see PATRIOTISM the same way

I thought that in Britain the way to show your elegance to the country was the same way that Tim Brook Taylor did by wearing an Union Jack Wast coat and boxer shorts.

Goodies Goodie Goodie Yum Yum. 😉

Col ]:)

Well that would be ‘elegant’

In reply to Actually OZ

Borderline tacky, but I don’t know if it would be seen as allegiance.

But I lOVED the Goodies!!!! What a great show that was, haven’t seen it in donkey’s years but I’d love to again. Another I really miss is Dad’s Army. I’ve picked up a hardcover of the scripts but the shows are never aired anywhere these days.

You like Dad’s Army? Stupid boy!

In reply to Well that would be ‘elegant’

Trust me, they still air them over here. I think there are one, maybe two of the original cast still alive. One DA clip was recently voted “greatest TV comedy moment”.

So that I can continue to drop comedic references for you to bite on, what’s good for you and is there any of the current UK output you’re up to speed on?

League of Gentlemen are probably the best in the last few years although some of their humour is borderline horror.

If you’re not already up to speed, check on http://www.leagueofgentlemen.co.uk

Neil

That was another great show

In reply to You like Dad’s Army? Stupid boy!

My wife hated it so it must have been brilliant. 😉

Now can I have a few pounds of the Butchers Special? 😀

Col ]:)

I liked the older ones

In reply to You like Dad’s Army? Stupid boy!

I wasinto the original series (late 60’s early 70’s)of DAD’s Army, with Arthur Lowe and Clive Dunn.

I still watch Coronation Street for 2 hrs every Sunday morning whether I go to the track or not. (about 4-5 months behind yours but catching up)

I really get of on the older sit-coms though, Butterflies was absolutely CLASSIC, Good Neighbours (The Good Life in UK) was simply brilliant. I do watch Last of the Sumer Wine once in a while (love the countrysides!)and some repeats of Are you Being Served (Again).

I get some feedback on comedy from bands I work with over there along with a lot of newspapers etc. to keep me in touch so I don’t lose all cultural contact between trips home. 🙂

EDIT: Just remembered, I loved Ken Dodd and the diddy men, Hatty Town (?), and of COURSE, the Two Ronnies.

It’s getting a bit late now so it’s good night from me…..and it’s good night from him.

or as Zebbedy says….it’s time for bed. (THat’s going back a bit though, next thing’s Bill and Ben I suppose! LOL

I still have all my Rupert Annuals though and my mum buys me one every Christmas just out of tradition.

You’re a Corrie fan?

In reply to I liked the older ones

OK. So I won’t give away the plot lines such as how Hayley and Roy get involved in experimental surgery and Roy bears Hayley’s child.

I don’t watch it but according to Mum who’s a rabid Corrie fan, you’ve the usual good mix coming, one murder and a hypnotist makes Jason fancy men.

Sir Ian McKellen is appearing for some episodes soon. Gandalf in Wetherfield!

One Ring to rule them all, one Ring to find them
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In Manchester where the Shadows lie.

And Dave Allen

In reply to I liked the older ones

Has just died as well. That was a major Loss just like Marty Feldman. 🙁

I still remember with a sweet glow the skit that Marty did about driving a taxi and running down pedestrians and how the terrible Traffic Warden was getting his mates it was done in a WW11 style fighter pilots type skit and I just roll around laughing as he reaches out the door and sticks another pedestrian sticker on the side of the cab. 😀

Or Dave Allen’s skit as him being the vicar and saying let him without sin cast the first stone and a bolder falls down from heaven killing him. 😀

Or the mad scientist Mr Garden wanting to setup a Pirate UK so he hires teams of Welsh miners to dig out the foundations of the UK and then attempts to tow it past the 5 mile limit with a row boat. 😀

Col ]:)

The Goodies are touring Australia

In reply to Well that would be ‘elegant’

…one of my favourite shows of the ’70’s. It was on after Doctor Who. No self respecting school kid missed these two shows.
Bring back the ancient art of Eckie Thump I say.

Both are sold on DVD at the ABC Shops here

In reply to Well that would be ‘elegant’

I have all that are available and still fall over laughing when ever they get put on.

The great pity is that the Goons where never a TV show and the radio broadcast just are not available so other than a few short sound bytes I only have a couple of instances of the Goons on DVD of course they are all pirate copies as the originals are just not available for love nor money. 😉

I had to beg/steal/borrow/offer my first born that finally worked but after just 2 hours they returned him as an uncontrollable little snot. At the time he was in his mid 20’s and has only got worse as he has got older. 😀

Col ]:)

Not once ever did I do that.

In reply to You dont see PATRIOTISM the same way

If anyone tried to make me do it I’d get really angry, anyone who tried to make one of my children do it, would be honking for the next decade. Let them grow up and make their own decisions.

Kids’ & his Dad both got a ‘tudes.

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

But, can’t hold the kid fully accountable for his.

Obviously his father is a jackass; who knows what other asinine notions he’s inculcated in his son.

Its not, but…

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

.
We are a nationalistic country, as a matter o fact, we invented it. Before America, people pledged allegiance to a king, lord etc. We were the first to take a more abstract concept like allegiance to a nation. So to my thinking, if English were a national language, it may be disrespectful to sing a song pledging allegiance in a “foreign” language. We have no national language, so no reason not to sing in another language.

Now, is it the current brand of reverse PC? Yes, undoubtedly. It fits with the anti-flag burning country songs. The way Charlie Danales makes it sound, we liberals are burring flags to start our barbeques on the weekends. Hold tight for a few more years of this.

TBR

This isn’t a permanent daily activity

In reply to Its not, but…

Nor is it a permanent change, somebody in the teaching staff obviously thought it would be an interestng way to remind students of National Foreign Language Week.

How is THAT so abbsurd and against t egrain of what people keep trying to suggest is a trly multi-cutural and accepting country?

People are always claimin gthat teh US is more culturally accepting than other countries, but it seems that every week someone is defending language, ethics, or American national pride.

All those OTHER countries that aren’t considered to be multicultural (by Americans) don’t have these issues brought to the surface daily. And when it IS a problem, the majority of people have no issues with it ad defend the right to freedom of culture and actually work very hard to bring MORE cultural diversity into the nation, instead of trying to repress it as if they will lose their own identity.

But that

In reply to Its not, but…

Would ruin the flavor of what you where cooking wouldn’t it? 😉

Burning polyester isn’t by idea of a good way to start a Barby and have decent food after wards. 😀

But think of it this way by burning US Flags on a regular basis you are keeping the companies who make the things in business as you have to buy the things before you burn them don’t you?

Is the spirit of Free Enterprise now being stooped in the US? Instead of complaining They should be supporting this action and introducing laws that make it mandatory to burn a flag a day to keep the business running at a profit.

Col ]:)

Almost as stupid as the French WIne boycott

In reply to But that

That one still makes me laugh. IN order to protest the France, Americans bought up all the French wine they could and poured it down the drains. It was the most retarded protest attempt I think I have ever seen, who’s the knuckle dragging, slack-jaw redkneck who came up with THAT idea?

WAY to protest guys!! That’ll teach ’em to send MORE wine to America next time! LOL

I think today I am gonna protest beer, but I am gonna drink as much of it as I can. LOL!’

Only in America. 😀

I hope you mean US beer!!! That stuff is God awful!!!

In reply to Almost as stupid as the French WIne boycott

On the other hand Canadian suds and just about every other nation’s is pretty damn good. :^O

Dawg 😉

Dawg

In reply to I hope you mean US beer!!! That stuff is God awful!!!

You must remember the wine protests!

THey bought all the French wine they could find and poured it down the gutter in protest. 😀

It just sounds funnier everytime I hear it. You create revenue and increased demand for an import while attempting to protest it. I bet the French were rolling over with laughter watching THAT protest! I’d love to meet the moron who came up with the idea. Like I said at the time, PLEASEgo and protest heavy metal and pop rock music in your state by buying as many as you can and destroyin gthem. Them go buy some more and do it again, I’ll keep the stock coming as long as they can buy and trash them. 😀

I’d help ’em with their wine protest……….

In reply to Dawg

As long as they’d let me run it through my kidneys and bladder first. :^O

Dawg ]:)

I would join you in

In reply to I’d help ’em with their wine protest……….

That one as well! 🙂

Perhaps we could come up with a piece of extremely expensive hardware which we get made for virtually nothing and make a killing by getting people to buy the things and destroy them in protest. 😀

Col ]:)

Well

In reply to I’d help ’em with their wine protest……….

Despite our past differences, I would be at your side for the entire duration of your brave undertaking.
No I wouldn’t, who am I kidding!

I would be butting in line ahead of you, better dig those crutches out of the closet, you’ll need them to get a sip or two. 😀

A wine boycotting service

In reply to I’d help ’em with their wine protest……….

THat would enable kids of all ages and non-drinkers to partake in sending a message to France…..that they like French wine in America.

We could provide a service where people simply donate online to buy a bottle of their choosing. We would ensure it was wasted at their expense and could arrange to send some Thank You (sorry) PROTEST letters to France on their behalf.

It sounds pretty far fetched, but after watching Americans purchase and then waste wine in order to protest France (LOL), it isn’t that much of a stretch is it?

The pro-war protests were just nuts.

In reply to Almost as stupid as the French WIne boycott

.
You should have seen them first hand. One group of sad people setup shop across the street from our peace protest. They brought out speakers blasting patriotic music, screeming across the street at us. It was theater.

They stoped showing up after “mission accomplished”, the peace group however, are still out every friday.

TBR

Do liberals use cotton flags?

In reply to Its not, but…

Burning cotton causes less pollution than burning nylon or other synthetics.

Also, I thought liberals would not do barbecues, because it adds to Global Warming, and involves meat from dead animals (unless it is a tofu barbeque) 🙂

Solar ovens

In reply to Do liberals use cotton flags?

There was a surpluss after y2k

Only a poem

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

As for me, it is not the anti-America belief, but would never make a pledge to a country. Many America people know pledge history? It is the 19 century socialist poet (Francis Belamy) that it wrote. With the history knowledge, it understands attachment to America flag more than other country (include Japan), but as for person who wrote flag pledge, he was the very anti-America socialism ideology.

Original “salute” to flag.

In reply to Only a poem

.
The original salute to the flag while reciting the pledge was the National Socialist German Workers Party salute (same Nazi salute).

What is this kid calling discusting!

Liberty <, Equality, > and Justice

In reply to Original “salute” to flag.

Found the following on the web at http://l.webring.com/forum?forum=conspiricy;did=39#here

“About a year ago I discovered the Pledge of Allegiance had been written by the Nationalist and Socialist Francis Bellamy, in 1892. (The phrase “Nationalist Socialist” is better known by the word, “Nazi.”) Before this leftist’s drive to support himself by selling a flag to every classroom, the flag was almost never seen in schools.
Bellamy, being a fascist, wanted to collectivize the entire nation. To this end he resurrected the Roman salute for school children–the same one as the Nazi salute–until the beginning of World War II put a permanent end to it.
Since every individual state was originally a “free and independent” nation, when children said the Pledge of Allegiance, to which entity were they pledging allegiance? The entire country?
I doubt it. It is the federal government that drafts teenagers and starts wars, that levies crushing taxes and runs up deficits. Not the individual states. I’ve never seen, and can’t imagine, Illinois or Montana declaring war on some nation halfway across the world.
Since the country and the federal government are different things–indeed eternally opposed to each other–when people say the Pledge, they are pledging allegiance to the federal government. Not the country.
Since the federal government is composed of people, those saying the Pledge are in reality pledging allegiance to those who have control of it. So, when people are wounded or die in wars, they’re fighting for a handful of people in charge of a disorganized criminal enterprise that believes it should rule the entire country. I don’t see why this isn’t the same in every country.”

Francis Bellamy is known as a Christian Socialist at the following link. Also some interesting history where equality was considered but not included in the pledge at http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

Not quite!

In reply to Original “salute” to flag.

It was done the the palm facing UP.

Nope.

In reply to Not quite!

.
May have been in some cases, but I have seen pictures of kids doing it in US schools, and it was not palm up.

Well, I’m old enough to remember it!

In reply to Nope.

It was definitely palm UP.

OK, I will believe someone who was there.

In reply to Well, I’m old enough to remember it!

.
Just going on what I have seen. All the same, the pics are strange.

Personaly I never had to say the pledge in school. Went to a private school 2-12.

The confusion that you witnessed on film …

In reply to OK, I will believe someone who was there.

was the reason that the arm gesture was phased out, in favor of the hand-over-heart.

As always, it depends….

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

First off, he (and his friends) decided to sit down in protest. This is totally within their rights as defined in the constitution. As long as they weren’t being jerks as they did it. The teacher should have just left them alone and told the principal later what had happened.

Second, this is an English school, where the languages being used were not known to any of the students (apparently). I don’t think this would be an appropriate way of showing support for foreign language. After all, who wants to listen to a bunch of gobbledygook coming out of the PA system.

If you want to say the PoA in a foreign language, than please have students at your school that speak a foreign language, say the PoA in ENGLISH, but providing translations into the foreign language as you go through it. If no student speaks the language, than it doesn’t get used.

Just my 2 cents

But wouldn’t that school have

In reply to As always, it depends….

Several Foreign Language classes that where elective by the students?

When I went to school we had French and German as necessary foreign language classes up until a certain point and then we went on with whatever subjects we chose. Now I understand that Italian is being taught to 6 & 7 years olds as a basic course and that when they get older Japanese and some of the other Asian Languages are currently on the curriculum.

So wouldn’t it be a good example for those students taking these foreign language courses to hear the languages that they are learning spoken in something that they all know very well?

Col ]:)

FUnny enough

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

THe kid whining about this is America and America is at war, may not have too many objections to a Russian becoming a US soldier though. If soldiers in US military were limited to ONLY US born Americans, you’d be pretty thin by now. That same kid would be complaining that the Americans do all the fighting and immigrants just mooch of the safety of American soldiers.

Lets turn the table and see where this kid REALLY stands. Send him to Russia and insist that he learns to speak a Russian Pledge of allegiance in Russian.His parents and all their friends would be arguing that the pledge should be in Englis so Americans could participate and that Russia doesn’t allow freedom of speech and restricts his ability to speak English, comie bastards and all the rest.

“The pledge was to be read in Spanish, French, Latin, Russian and German. School officials said the activity will continue, with the English version of the pledge being read first for the rest of the week.

?This is just a way to connect what?s going on in the classroom and this daily activity where we say the Pledge of Allegiance,? said Jonathan Brice, a spokesman for Anne Arundel County Public Schools.”

THis is for a WEEK, it is in respect of NATIONAL FOREIGN LANGUAGE WEEK. It’s not exactly a permanent change, AND it is being read in English first. This kid is just growing up with the same ridiculously anal attitude his parents have taught him. Damn, that means ANOTHER generation down the tubes!

I would have loved to learn God Save The Queen in a bunch of different languages when I was a kid. What’s wrong with this little puke? PARENTS, that’s what’s wrong.

If my kid EVERY complained about speaking a new language at school or reciting his daily BS in another language, we would have had a LOOOOONG talk, I am not REALLY and actual Canadian (he is now) but I happen to speak the same language. This doesn’t mean I advocate it as the only “respectful” language.

What a little sh*t, these kids just get right under my skin, not to mention the poor kids freakish and out of date parents.

Doubt he complains about latin on money.

In reply to FUnny enough

.
Or latin mottoes for military branches.

Its a case of “Im a American, I speak English… Dammit.” Im not about to say he didnt have the right to NOT participate, I don’t like kids saying the pledge at all, but this was a narrow minded protest and I can say this child needs to open whatever mind he has, and individual thinking should be encouraged wherever it can be found.

Its a nothing of a story, but they are crouping up all around. How about the “Darwin lied” tee shirt a kid wore to school recentley?

Now be fair OZ

In reply to FUnny enough

All the others except Latin are reasonable I can fully understand him sitting down during the Latin recital as it would bore you SHIT-LESS!

But then again he just might learn where so many English words came from and exactly what they mean. Sometimes I regret attending school after Latin was dropped but then I started doing some Latin and was sooooooo grateful that I didn’t have to study it at all. 😀

Col ]:)

I actually like Latin

In reply to Now be fair OZ

I never had a chance for study in school but have studied languages and the evolution of words, which seems to be solely from latin words as English is just an easier form of Latin.

I have played with latin since and do pick up a book or two when I have time and the right mindset to absorb some more.

A friend of mine can speak fluent latin just as we speak English, it’s the coolest thing! But he’s a copywriter that is considerably older than me too, so he was taught in school as he studied languages.

Resentum Carborundum

In reply to I actually like Latin

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
And as my mother always said “Semper ubi rasa sub ubi”
Noli illegitimi carborundum, nunc est bibendum.

Your mum spoke latin too?

In reply to Resentum Carborundum

That would have been awkward as a grade 6 kid. 😀

I don’t know if your spelling is on track though but I got the gyst I think.

She was brought up…

In reply to Your mum spoke latin too?

…in a catholic orphanage in the 1920’s and ’30’s. As a typical kid I didn’t listen much to the wisdom she had. It would have been nice to learn that thoroughly. It did help me in biology classes though. Most of the things I learnt were latin sayings or common phrases.

I get a lot slung at me too

In reply to She was brought up…

My brother’s runs a corporate law firm, man have I heard my share of latin when sitting in on cases over the last 10 years.

THat’s where my interest started. When I took interest in phorensic pathology and criminal psychology, up came the latin again.

I would not say that I speak latin by any stretch of the word, just starting to learn it, but I understand a LOT more than I write. Most latin is fairly easy to break down once you look at it. Just as most English is just as easy to break down into it’s latin form.

Oz, same here,

In reply to She was brought up…

I carried a Latin pocket book around with me in high school. Had everything in it to get me by and more. Latin helps helps when they quote latin works or phrases in journals or magazines.

Jessie it could be said in Australian

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

Then no one would have a hope of understanding what was being said. 😉

Sounds to me like something he has been taught by his parents rather than an informed decision that this 15 year old has come to from his own account or maybe it could be a good excuse to stay away from school for a few days. 😀

Col ]:)

The Aussie translation

In reply to Jessie it could be said in Australian

Lits pledge to some flag thing, mate
I do it every day
I do it for some country full of poofters
And the blokes who made it so
It all stands for the Mick’s that live there
One bloody huge country
Think they are all God’s gift
They stick together no matter how stupid the idea
They go on and on about Liberty
And constantly whinge about their rights
The whole lot of ’em

AMEN 😀

We couldn’t give a stuff…

In reply to The Aussie translation

…as witnessed by our short but to the point Pledge of Allegiance,
?I honour my God;
I serve my Queen;
I salute my flag?

That’s about it

In reply to We couldn’t give a stuff…

I have said for years that the US seems so intensly focused on politics and values and it donimates much of their lives and separates them from change and forward motion by protection of what was THEN.

Myself, I couldn’t give a rats what the government or some dork on running the country has to say, they leave themselves out of our news and let us get on with it.

Yet we are seen as government controlled, socialists or commies with the worst government.
My view is that if I pay taxes (as I would pretty much anywhere)and they let me live my life, then I am happy. Stay out of my face unless we are about to blow up. 🙂

I feel I get more freedoms this way,the government and it’s rules don’t really exist for me. Yet I pay taxes and get the benefits anyway.

Australia would be another place I’d move, if not back to Europe, I enjoyed time I’ve spent in Melbourne and Sydney and fit the laid back mindset on that half of the planet quite well.

A bit mild but you forgot

In reply to The Aussie translation

The Beer and Kangaroos! 🙂

Col ]:)

That would be a foreign interpretation though

In reply to A bit mild but you forgot

I figrued Aussies don’t really sing about ‘roos!

Well there’s Rolf Harris I suppose, and Kevin Bloody Wilson sings about The Last Lager Waltz. 🙂

wot bout

In reply to That would be a foreign interpretation though

The Sheilas?

Arent many down under, mate. You’d have to invest in one and take ‘er there with you.

eh wot?

In reply to wot bout

Australia is just chock full of women! REAL party chicks too, I mean HARDCORE party chicks. What a fun bunch, it’s hard to tell when you’re working and when you’re not.

NO Sheilas down under! Pshaw! 😀

Work has to be…

In reply to eh wot?

…fun and not a place you have to drag yourself off to. The main difference between, say, U.S, Japan, and Australia, is that we work for the culture while our counterparts in the other countries work for the corporation. Corporate entities are just that. Heaps of chicks here and any excuse will do for a party. Nearly every company has Friday night drinks that starts at 5:00pm and goes on for an hour or two in the break out area.

Same here

In reply to eh wot?

As a boss you get sneered at when you don’t bring in a few cases on a Friday or invite the whole team to the pub for a few.

I used to spend MORE time, yes we actually worked out the hours one month, at the pub downstairs with my staff members than actually IN the office.

IN a 40 hour workweek, I had spent 35 in the pub and 17 in the office. 😀 It was one of the biggest weeks we had at the office to boot, we spent the whole week celebrating and talking about a well oiled, efficient machine we had created in the office. EVERYONE made money and partied from that point on, then they asked me to move to Toronto to head a failing office there, so I quit instead. 🙂

Glitch

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

…

Thats the problem with most child protest.

In reply to Glitch

.
Its not the kids idea, its his/her parents. It takes time to develope social/political depth, and a 15 year old just cant have the experence.

As I said in another post, its nice to see anyone of any age question, debate, protest what they “must” do, but this is misguided. Its the parents.

TBR

Separation of Church and State

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

“under God”
Doesn’t the U.S. first ammendment mention something concerning separation of church and state?
I can guess that there has already been a debate on this.

Under god was not in it to start with.

In reply to Separation of Church and State

.
and is not necessarley a reason to not recite it in school. There are more than enough debates regarding this exact question. My personal feel is it should not be required, or ever encourged in school.

I see the larger problem with this kid, and the parents is that they are creating a close minded child. US centric thinking is what gets us into soo much trouble to start with.

I have a problem with jingoism in anything. This child will not go into the world, he will only go off into his closed comunity. I hope for better for him.

TBR

Brainwashed from a young age?

In reply to Under god was not in it to start with.

Extreme religious cults can effectively brainwash their disciples in a couple of months. Parents, on the other hand, have quite a few years to mould their minions and turn them into “free” thinkers, just like themselves. It may not be the kids fault, he might just be repeating words of his parents.
People need a license to raise animals but no license to raise kids.
In Australia no religion is taught in our government schools. Things are being changed in our schools such as BC (Before Christ). It is now known as BCT (Before Common Time). We have a multi cultural society where people here are allowed to keep their customs and beliefs and nothing is allowed to influence them one way or another (in theory anyway). It is left up to the child to make that choice (or their parents to make that choice for them).

The unfortunate thing with this kid is

In reply to Under god was not in it to start with.

He most likely will end up being the President. 🙁

What a awful thought.

Col ]:)

How about a Quickie?

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

The following is satire and not recommended for those of you who don’t understand understand it.
http://www.thequickie.com/pop_godbless.html

HAHA

In reply to How about a Quickie?

That’s pretty funny. I like the GWB character when he stops to think. 😀

Now I’m late, I though you said QUICKIE!

I liked the part where…

In reply to HAHA

…Rummy said that secret under-cover operatives surfing the Internet have determined that Osama is holed up in Afganistan.

FYI

In reply to HAHA

He stopped thinking when he got into office.

You must be drunk if you think that s.hits funny today.

Well I thought it funny

In reply to How about a Quickie?

But I hope you are wearing your fireproof gloves and don’t use any MS products as they are likely to demand their return and the deletion of them off your system/s. 😉

The sad thing is that it is only too real and for that reason isn’t really funny. 🙁

Col ]:)

That’s the funny part

In reply to Well I thought it funny

People can laugh at the bartoon that rings true in real life. But they can’t laugh at it when they see it in real life, they defend it with disbelief.

Oh well, aint my country afterall

Stop with the “not my country”

In reply to That’s the funny part

.
It is not your country, but its your matter. You would not intrest yourself if it had no impact. You in Canada can say “not my goverment”, but it has a impact. I see you in more discussions regarding a country you clam “aint my country”. Stop! Weak… I like you, and think this is justr deflecting, a joke. I live it!

Sorry… Going off the rail a little. You see, it is MY country, and it is in everyones intrest to see that WE are right when we launch crazy war. I type while people die. This is all just a waste of time unless people all over the world take us, our actions, our politics seriousley.

I’m trained

In reply to Stop with the “not my country”

It’s a TR thing. It’s not my business, I don’t live there, my own government is FAR worse, I don’t see the real story on left biased news, I refuse to listen to only America’s side etc. It’s all pure and complete crap of course.

You haven’t been around to see all the crap slung at me for commenting on US politics over that last few years. You have NO idea what’s been said that makes me say such a thing as a joke. Those that have participated in THOSE discussions will see my point in that comment right away.

OF COURSE it’s my business, it’s dominates MOST of MY TV channels. It is in MY newspapers etc.

I really don’t even want to start to tough the surface of my political views here now, I am SOOOO tired of it. We had one thread reach several thousand posts over politics, other well over 1000. This has been an issue here for years now and has been done more times than the Windows Xp vs WIndows 2K arguments or the MS vs Linux or Novell spats.

Definitely not going there now, just trust me, it is in fun and must be taken with a grain of salt not defense. I have been against Bush’s Bs since he first took office, believe me, I know your views.

I live it!

In reply to I’m trained

.
It had been a hard four years. My wife and I live and… live it. Im not trying to be too harsh to you. Im a bit drunk. Do you beleve Im sick of it too? Im sick to my stomach thinking of Americans, our allies, our contractors, and the “emeny” dieing while we dine on oil, and fine wine from France. Hyprocracy, that is my name.

OZ, it is your business. Its all humanitys business. We (USA) have every right to blow up whomever we want as long as the other countrys sit still. You have more power than I right now. I live in a country beseaged with kids refusing to sing a song in another language, refusing to be taught the basics of biology for fear of touching god.

Well I don’t remember anyone complaining about Afghanistan

In reply to Stop with the “not my country”

But the US Foreign Affairs sought of went off the rails after that and that was when the US started loosing World Support.

You can not think it correct to accept this type of action without question as that leads to exactly what happened in Germany just prior to WW11. Without a good solid opposition who will stop the excesses of the US Administrations? At least when The USSR was around as a solid force there was something to balance out the excesses but now there is nothing to stop the US Administration running right off the rails. When I first joined TR there was a discussion running about “Rouge States” and I asked who got to decide who a Rouge State was. Well you should have seen the flaming that I got and here was little old me thinking it was a harmless question but I was called everything under the sun.

I’m still trying to work out why Saddam having WMD “Weapons of Muslim Destruction” was such a bad thing as even though it has now been proved that he didn’t have any of these hasn’t the COW used enough WMD’s in Iraq by now? 😉

Col ]:)

Not everyone supported Afghanistan.

In reply to Well I don’t remember anyone complaining about Afghanistan

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Lots did not, just not protesting it.

I was actually thinking on

In reply to Not everyone supported Afghanistan.

A World Wide scale I can not remember one country who actually was against that action except of course the Talaban run Afghanistan.

The great pity is that a real dogs breakfast was made of that place and the real enemy was never defeated while the War on Terror moved on to Iraq Afghanistan has reverted to much the same way that it was prior to the so called “Liberation” about the only real beneficiaries where the Drug Lords in Southern Afghanistan who gave the poppie farmers credit while under Talaban Rule.

Now any convoy is unsafe to travel the roads in Afghanistan unless they have a full brigade Army/Marine escort with Air Support.

Col

Hey Hal….

In reply to Well I thought it funny

I thought it funny too……………till started playing LOL

Unfortunately it is real & it’s NOT funny.

And it also

In reply to Hey Hal….

Comes from a US site. Did you notice that one?

Col ]:)

Well that says it all then Col

In reply to And it also

If it came from a US report, it was lefty BS then.

Just whining from the bleeding hearts who think the government must carry you from womb to tomb and do it at the cost of all the Republicans that pay for the rest to live their lives. I think they would e considered those who accept what is taken from those who earn it and iven to those that didn’t and all that crap we hear about so often here. :p

Well why not OZ?

In reply to Well that says it all then Col

Isn’t that what we pay our taxes for?

At the rate I’m paying tax I sure as HELL want some return when I get older or something happens to me. 😉

About the only job I’m really qualified for is Prime Minister as that really requires no experience or training just a lot of brown nosing. Actually I’m not even qualified for that because I would never lower my standards to that level. 😀

Col ]:)

No I didn’t…………………

In reply to And it also

Wow………..

Holy s.hit, you’d think they’d find a better way to slam there own President.

Are you sick ……… or that kids parent?

In reply to How about a Quickie?

I have a great sense of humour and I’m not American (nor) am I all that religious -BUT-

THAT was F*cking sick.

People died in those towers & Christ died for us.

I understood it just fine – Some sick (programmer) who hasn’t breathed real air in years built it. I wonder if that same person would build that cartoon if his parents died in those towers…..& would you have thought it so satirical?

It’s got nothing to do with making light of 911

In reply to Are you sick ……… or that kids parent?

Nobody is condoning the events of 911, other countries have suffered similar atocities in the hands of terrorists for years. I have seen the effects of terrorism on my own soil before, just as many others here have.

There are no jokes about people dying in the Twin Towers, the joke is how pathetically your current administration has handled the issues. Afghanistan was not contested, most allied country’s were at your side, until it was all called off, Afghanistan started it’s reversion back to its former state but YOU now have bases there, making it far easier and more economical to ASSiST in the global distribution of oil via the Afghanistan pipeline that will now be expedited seeing as the key countries against it’s constrction arte not an issue. The Taliban would have reaped huge profits if left to operate IN afghanistan, so they’ve been pushed JUST out of toen and still operate as always globally. AlQaeda was not stopped, hindered or wiped out (the guys RESPONSIBLE fo rthe Twin Towers) but Bush pulle dout to move to the other key position for bases in the middle east.

How it was all justified was the issue being addressed in the cartoon, not the terrorism itself.

THere’s nothing funny about people dying without reason (American or foreign), that’s why MANY oppose the war in Iraq.

Eye for an eye is not the issue, you are not attacking those who attacked you, nor even those who had the ABILITY to attack you, you’re just at war at this point in time.

Poor taste

In reply to It’s got nothing to do with making light of 911

First of all I’m Canadian, second of all I hate politics…………couldn’t care less to tell the truth.

Just a bunch of blood sucking ****suckers if you ask me.

My point was simply that that kind of ‘comedy’ or parody is in POOR taste. End of story.

Read my post carefully…………I think you interpreted my point to narrowly.

Well in that case

In reply to Poor taste

You had better not see what passes as humor over here in AU. That was positively tame in comparison.

We have Little Johny Rotten not wanting to go to Parliament because all the other politician’s take away his bucket and spade and eat his lunch. He is constantly complaining to his mother for protection and just how all the other boys and girls don’t understand him and how his telephone privileges have been taken away from him because he keeps ringing his good friend GW in the US and running up the phone bill. But hey he is only the Prime Minister so who cares? 😉

The not quite so funny bit is that the next two most senior pollies are named Tony Abbot & Peter Costello neither of them is the slightest bit funny though but when Peter Costello has his Coup De-Taint and throws out Little Johny Rotten I’m sure that the cartoonist will have a field day with him.

The previous Prime Minister Paul Keating was portrayed as a penny pinching Treasurer when he was 2IC but he was constantly trying to kill off the them Prime Minister who always thawed his plans by rolling a $1.00 coin around to see if it was safe, of course the treasurer always tried to grab the money and set off all of the traps which he had so carefully put in place to kill his leader. 😀

They where the really tame ones but if you really wanted a good laugh all you had to do was watch the Parliament on the few days in a Decade that it was actually sitting {they televise Question Time over here and it is always good for a good old belly laugh} Those silly Pollies really take themselves way too Seriously anyway. 😀

Then there is the “Adult” comedy which really takes the PISS out of them with out any trouble whatsoever. Come on these people are just begging for it. We had a Defense Minister over here saying about a sub “I’ll go down on Her every chance I get.” It was actually a woman as well and she didn’t realize just what she said and I still don’t think she realizes.

But honestly I’ve seen better behavior in a kindergarten as those little children are far better behaved than the so called adults in control of the country. 😉

Col ]:)

Maybe I should go hit my elbo then…

In reply to Well in that case

mmmmmmmmm not sure what struck me this morning,

I CLEARLY understand the intent of the cartoon, just as I understood the TASTEFULLY done (Micheal Moore) – Farenheit 911 movie.

Colin, I think the presentation was out to lunch.

The use of Jesus Christ and the Twin Towers Tragedy to make a ‘comedic’ point was a little over the top. And then to crucify him on the US flag????

Holy crap…..people think that’s funny?

I appreciate what your saying though.

What a F-up country the USA is…..including the cartoonist that came up with that litle show.
I’m not waving a flag here……I’m just saying he could have said a lot more by using some class.

Terrorism ….. in Canada?????????

In reply to It’s got nothing to do with making light of 911

What terrorism in Canada?

Can’t think of anything off hand….I think Mulroney had a hangnail once & Chretien’s wife chased a burglar or something while he slept. LOL

Other than that……..our politicians are mostly busy stealing money and calling it professional services.

I’m British

In reply to Terrorism ….. in Canada?????????

Terrorism in Britain? OOOOOOOH YEAH!

My mum’s train was bombed about 3 minutes after she got off, I didn’t know if she lived until the next day because I was wisked away and sheltered in the station with the Red Cross.

The Queens Guard was bombed in Hyde park while I was there with my brother, horses and innocent people killed senselessly.

Those I have witnessed, there have been literally hundreds more similar attacks.

Then if we really want to back up and see what destruction of millions of lives does to a country, we can revisit the London Blitz where the Luftwaffe bombed London relentlessly with thousands of bombs day in and day out for nearly a full year.

I grew up with the remnants and remoinders all around me, I understand completely what such a large attack on a major city’s population is all about. Even though the blitz was not technically terrorism, it certainly was unexpected and destructive of civillian lives and buildings, it was not a military target strike. Picture 911, 8 or 10 times per day then times about 300 days.
I lost 3 of four grandparents to the war, 2 of which I never did meet.

I understand tragic loss quite well, while 911 will live on in history and not be totally forgotten, the remnants of WWII still litter England. Bombed buldings, rubble, bunkers, gunplacements and trenches litter the countryside, the reminder is always there, but so is the pride in what the country has recovered from.

Note that Britain was absent of US support at this time in the war too. Canadians were there due to the Commonwealth but it sure was a dirty and unethical war in Europe during those early years of WWII.

That’s right…….from now

In reply to I’m British

From now on I’ll jusr call you a BriCan. 🙂

Although I mention the twin towers I never said he/she trivialized the tragedy.

The whole PRESENTATION, as put together, was just in poor taste.
I also said I don’t give a crap about politics.

Hal & TheChas have pointed out some things in the cartoon that are (POLITICALLY & RELIGIOUSLY) relevent in that cartoon. Specifically, the religious connection & the Bush family.

Allthough I see more clearly where the cartoonist was coming from……..I still think he/she is a sick twist.

That’s the draw

In reply to That’s right…….from now

Everything in the media these days is a battle of popularity. YOu know the old bad press is good press adage. THis is SOOOOOOO true in these cases.

Political cartoons have always been subject to a fine line between poor taste and political humour.

IF this carton was the opposire and suported Bush and bombing Arabs etc. the offense would come form the other direction.

Creating a stir is what these things are 100% foucsed to do, and it this case it was very successful and has been posted in yet another debate/discussion as I am positive is has been before MANY times. That is the intent. We can get away with it when shrouded in a humorous light, if that had been someone’s commentary on the news, even more controversy would have surrounded it perhaps too much so, therefore political cartoons are a way to get some shock value out of one side and some agreement from another. Either way, it is viewed and discussed as intended when it was created.

Must be a young ‘un

In reply to Terrorism ….. in Canada?????????

Terrorism in Canada.

In the late 60s the Federation pour le Liberations du Qubece (FLQ) starting setting off mail bombs, targeting anglos in Quebec(IIRC some people were killed). In the October crisis of 1970, they kidnapped a British trade commissioner(Cross) and the Quebec Minister of Labour(Pierre Laporte). The Canadian government reacted harshly and imposed the war measures act. Cross was let go, but Laporte was murdered.

In the 80s there were a number of incidents in Ottawa where Armenians attacked Turkish diplomats. One was killed at a stop light on his way to work, one was attacked in his parking garage. In 1985 three gunmen stormed the Turkish embassy, killing the guard and holding 12 people hostage. They later surrendered.

So while nothing on the scale of 9/11 or Oklahoma City, but some terrorism nonethless. I recall the October crisis when the whole country was under martial law, and the military was everywhere.

James

Nope……….an old dude

In reply to Must be a young ‘un

The FLQ …………….. yup remember that one.
(Pierre Laporte & such I think.)

Don’t remember the items you mention in the 80’s.
(Then again if it had anything to do with politics………I probably just roled my eyes) LOL

HA

In reply to Nope……….an old dude

YOu admit it!

I have been telling our neighbours to the south, for a few years now, that politics is not of any interest in Canada. Whenever I bitch about Bush, someone always throws out some hack at the Canadian government, they simply beat me to it. I have tried to explain that Canadians don’t hold our government or politicians with any esteem, they’re just dicks with jobs and that’s all they mean to us.

I don’t think they really get it when I say that if you were to bring up politics in a bar amongst friend or even friendly patrons, you would be sitting alone in no time. ANY time you bring up politics in Canada, people roll their eyes and sigh, they just DON’T give a damn.

Do you even KNOW the political values or affiliation of your friends? I wouldn’t dare ask anyone out here. Way to clear a room!

So it’s quite nice to see a fellow Canadian utter the same findings. Can you IMAGINE disuccing political views, politics in general and politicians with your friends or drinking bussies? I’ve seen it in US bars where most of the bar is watching politics on the TV, they are all discussing political views and almost get ito fights over it. If you put Canadian politics on TV in a bar here, you would have to use plastic cups to stop people throwing pint mugs at it and screaming for the hockey game.

At least we have our priorities right in that respect. Politiians make SFA, Hockey players are the most esteemed Canadians of all and the highest paid too.

Don’t know if you caught tha 100 most important people on Canada’s history. Not ONE politician made it abot #21, they were beaten out by John Candy, several hockey players and even MartinShort beat out Cretien by a landslide. I gues sit shows at least we have our priorities straight. LOL!

The day I punch out a drinking buddy over Canadian political views is the day I move.

Oz – Absolutely

In reply to Nope……….an old dude

Absolutely……..it doesn’t interest me in the slightest.

First of all, it takes most Canadian Politician 2 Hours to watch 60 Minutes.

Second of all, it take Canadian Politicians 2000 words to say something that can be said with ten well placed ones. That’s allowing that they’ve said anything at all.

IF something means something to me (and) I understand the issue at hand I will have something to say.

Other than that F-it.

Nope……….an old dude

In reply to Must be a young ‘un

The FLQ …………….. yup remember that one.
(Pierre Laporte & such I think.)

Don’t remember the items you mention in the 80’s.
(Then again if it had anything to do with politics………I probably just roled my eyes) LOL

What was ‘the october crisis’ about James??? I Don’t recall that one???

It was quite dramatic

In reply to Nope……….an old dude

Ottawa is a pretty sleepy town. Most of the time.

In the space of 2 years, some gets murdered at a stoplight, someone is shot in a parking garage(survives I think), and the Turkish embassy is assaulted. The security guard out front is killed. The ambassador jumps out of the 2nd floor window and escapes. Pretty dramatic.

I didn’t mention Air India bombing, but that was terrorism too. Sikhs from Canada plant a bomb on a India bound flight. The trial is going on right now. Hundreds of people died.

The “October crisis” was the FLQ kidnapping. Armed soldiers roamed Ottawa, some police forces used martial law powers to arrest every known addict in town and lock them up for 30 days(Vancouver I recall). A Quebec Cabinet minister murdered.

James

James……

In reply to Nope……….an old dude

Your right about Ottawa….I actually lived there as a kid and still find myself up there from time to time (CNSE).

It continues to be one of my favourite cities in Canada. Specifically the Rideau Canal & Spark Street Areas.

You just might like this one then

In reply to Terrorism ….. in Canada?????????

Over in AU in the mid 70’s someone took it into their head to get rid of Family Court Judges with a few bombs. A real terror act if ever there was one and do you know the only people who where actually concerned? Thats right the Family Court Judges and their families and the Police who got Press Ganged into protecting them. 😀

The average Aussie thought that the Judges where only getting what they deserved this made it really hard for the Police to act as they just didn’t get any leads and even other Police where not interested so they where virtually on their own and watching their own backs all the time.

What I found really funny was that the real Judges who locked people up for many years never got a mention but the supposedly nice Touchy Feely Judges where the ones who where getting the rough end of the pine apple shoved up their A##es. 😉

Col ]:)

Yikes……………

In reply to You just might like this one then

Hey, here I was under the impression you guys were a mellow version of Canada LOL

Pine Apples………..ouch.

IMO some of our (way too leniant) judges should be introduced to Aussies prior to sentencing some of the scumbags over here!

Actually it was the Divorce Judges

In reply to Yikes……………

Not the Criminal ones who where affected.

Apparently they where not well liked even by their criminal brethren either as I was in court giving evidence when the Judge tore right into the Defense QC and kept doing it. He made life so hard for the guy that I felt sorry for the defendant. He kept saying words like “We follow Rules of Evidence Here where do you practice Law in that other Court?”

When I got out I asked the Bailiff what had happened and I was told not to worry as the QC in question had handled his wifes side in his divorce and he did hold a grudge. However he is still the only Supreme Court Judge In Queensland’s History never to have a case that he heard overturned at appeal on a point of law.

I kept hearing really good things about the guy from all the scumbags that I associate with {Politicians, QC and their Ilk.} They are the real criminal’s. But I meant this judge several years latter and he was the nicest guy you could ever run across and he had dealt with the worst of the criminals that are around here and never once was he threatened or even the slightest bit upset the defendant as they all thought that he had been fair to them and even though he locked them away for sometimes some very long stretches they all thought he was a decent guy.

He doesn’t own a TV or read papers and when he performed a service for a group I was involved with he didn’t even want to be picked up and driven to the site he wanted to catch a train in the middle of the night to one of the worst areas around Brisbane he really felt that safe with people. Of course I couldn’t allow that to happen but he was so funny and what is worse last year when my wife was doing jury service I went in to pick her up and he came over to me and had quite a lot to say then introduced me to the Judge hearing the case that my wife was on.

God only know what she thought and even the Bailiff had to know what was said to the judges. He was insistent about it even though Peter had come over to me and then taken us both to meet the other judges and QC’s that where attending the whatever was going on at the time. What made it even worse was I kept calling him Peter and the bailiff was aghast and insisted that I call him Justice ####### which he refused to accept from me and my wife. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. 😀

Col ]:)

Colin – Same Scumbags

In reply to Yikes……………

Sounds like you associate with the same crowd as I. LOL

I remember when I got into business (Bout 20 years ago)…..It was because I thought VERY HIGHLY of business owners, gobernement and law.

Boy, was I in for a ride….ROFLMAO

Actually there are a great many business owners that I respect and admire (A lot less than I thought I would)

Judges:

It’s funny, my experiences with them are similar….when you socialize with them, they’re some of the nicest people you’d want to meet (in most cases) BUT, behind the bench you wouldn’t want to be in front of them!

Well you’ll just love this one too

In reply to Yikes……………

My cousin was involved in a crash where his 17 year old daughter who was driving died, he sustained some major injuries and was in hospital for a very long time after the collision. But he was allowed out for his daughters funeral. Well the Ambulance service very nicely provided 2 women to drive him around and lift him out of the meat-wagon and so on he had to be under their constant care. 🙂

Anyway everything went well until it came to attend the burial service where the ground was uneven and it had been raining, Robert suggested that some of the guys at the grave site lift him into the wheel chair but the 2 ambo’s wouldn’t have a bar of this and insisted that they where more than capable. Of course they dropped him and re-broke his arm again which wasn’t really funny but what was is that Robert was one of the most respected QC’s down there and every other highly ranking Barrister, QC & Judge attended the funeral and where witnesses the the incident.

He did most bitterly complain that he couldn’t even sue the Ambulance Service because they couldn’t get anyone to represent them and couldn’t find a Judge who was not a wittiness to the event. Of course the Ambulance Service decided to settle out of court for the incident. Just sometimes it is good having people like this on your side. 😀

Col ]:)

Hah!

In reply to Yikes……………

Never ‘hurts’ to have a couple of well placed friends..LOL

Avagoyamug…

In reply to Are you sick ……… or that kids parent?

Oooooooooooooooo……ooooooo, who got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? I turn the other cheek to your insults!

Satire
n : witty language used to convey insults or scorn; “he used sarcasm to upset his opponent”; “irony is wasted on the stupid”; “Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody’s face but their own”–Johathan Swift

Now…to add insult to injury please don’t check out the following links as it contains over the top satire with such little gems as:
CANADIAN WARSHIP SEIZES TANKER IN… WAIT…
CANADA HAS A WARSHIP?
and
AUSTRALIA GETS DRUNK, WAKES UP IN NORTH ATLANTIC
http://www.satirewire.com/
http://www.bigfib.com/

Time to scoot…..

I really loved those

In reply to Avagoyamug…

Particularly the one about Australia. I can just see it now all of those people who where caught up in the drunken drive to be noticed locked away as illegal immigrants and not allowed out until they can be returned to their home which no longer exists. 😀

Of course the AU 200 Mile Sea Borders would also take in a large part of the eastern US and all of the UK and parts of Europe so these would all be Australian Territory as well. 😉

The Aussie Rules bit had me in stitches rolling around on the floor laughing as well.

Col ]:)

LOL

In reply to Avagoyamug…

I owe (you) an appology…….

Allthough I stand by my assesement of the cartoon, I did go ahead a bump my elbow as mentioned latter here.

Glad your cheek didn’t get too twisted at my early morning rant. 🙂

NO sweat

In reply to LOL

We odten get people here tat are overly sensitive about a comment. At that point a simple explanation that it wasn’t intended to be nasty is sufficientm s in your case.

But ther eHAVe been others who will drag it out as a four week tirade about sensitivity, caring for your country and all the rest of that crap.

This was just a political cartoon and as with all political cartoons, deigned to create some controversy and a little shock value as well as some light humour.

It’s actually hard to tell all these guys apart in catroons now, Bush, Blair and Prince Charles all get the big ears now. LOL!

A great message

In reply to How about a Quickie?

I loved it.

The satire is brilliant and right on target.

The Bush administration is the most openly religious in recent history. At least in their words.

The actions of the Bush administration however, show a complete lack of understanding of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The biblical view is used to limit individual freedoms. Following strict conservative Christian philosophy.

Where is the Christian compassion for those less well of than ourselves?

What about love the sinner, hate the sin?

Chas

fool

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

thoughts?

Stupid xenophobic twat. Its becuase we have people like that there there’s war and hatred in the world.

^

In reply to fool

hahahaha

Yep this kid’s pretty much a whining idiot..

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

And his father, well I have even less a care for him — he’s supposed to be an adult after all.

This is just stupid. Who give’s a rat’s arse that the POA was read in Russian.

Read it in Arabic, Farsi, friggin’ Gaelic for all I care it still doesn’t change the fact that I stand by my god given right to hate people as I deem fit damn it! Oh I mean…and like people as I chose too regardless where they are from.

Anyway…what a putz.

Ha ha!!

In reply to Yep this kid’s pretty much a whining idiot..

Gaelic!

Perfect day for that post 🙂

And man, that would sound STRANGE!

You’re kidding right?

In reply to Teen Protests his school saying PoA in Foreign Lang.

I can’t believe you think this is OK. I would expect any country’s pledge to always be spoken in the official language of that country which in our case is English. If I was in Russia I would not expect to see people saying their pledge in English.

The teacher should select something else for foreign language week. By the way when did it become necessary for schools to even have a foreign language week? This was something we did not have when I was in school and why do we suddenly need it now.

Regarding your statement about feeling and meaning, how can one put feeling and meaning using a language he or she is not totally familiar with?

I, for one, applaud the students for taking a stand. There’s far too much of this bowing down to special interest groups going on in this country.

We’re in the USA and English is our language, use it!!!!

Official language?

In reply to You’re kidding right?

Please point me to any document stating that English is our official language.

TBR

Canadians have one

In reply to Official language?

Because we have 2 official languages, and no “guarentee” of getting service in French in every government office in the country. Therefore we have to have some pretty extensive guidelines.

I too doubt the existance of a law that states that the US has an official language. I remember the debunking of an urban myth that had to do with how close the US came to having German as an official language. While there was a vote on whether to publish federal bills in German, there never was a bill or debate on an official language.

I suspect this may come up again when the number of Spanish speaking Americans reaches a certain point.

James

Texas Town Adopts Spanish As Official Language

In reply to Canadians have one

There’s some interesting reading on the web.
refer to http://www.englishfirst.org/elcenezo/elcenezoreuters81699.htm

“Will we call this town ‘America’s first Quebec?”’ asked Boulet, referring to the French-speaking Canadian province. ”Language divisions rather quickly lead to other divisions.”

http://www.rense.com/general61/losing.htm
“The common people the poor, the dirty, the lice ridden, the cockroaches are advancing on the United States. “A country that needs to speak Spanish because it has 33 million Mexicans who are imposing their culture,” declared the Mexican novelist Elena Poniatowska. “Mexico is recovering the territories yielded to the United States by means of migratory tactics.” From “Abolishing Our Borders” by William Grigg in The New American, October 8, 2001.

Yup, you do, we don’t

In reply to Canadians have one

.
No “official” American language. And I bet right with you, Spanish WILL be to us what French is to you.

Too bad mate!

In reply to Yup, you do, we don’t

If it was Hindi or Urdu you’d have a chance at understanding DELL tech support! LOL

EDIT: The most requested second language by an employer in BC is NOT French, it is Cantonese, Mandarin, Chinese and any other Asian langusge you could name.

If I go to Vancouver I will speak to MANY Asian people in the course of a day, but would be hard pressed to meet a French Canadian here. Unless it’s fruit picking season, then the province is flooded with French Canadian students who come here to pick berries and fruit in the Okanagan Valley or Mushrooms (so I found out a few years back) in Vancouver island. I don’t mean a few but literally hundreds if not thousands, in fact it must e many thousands because I run into a lot of French Canadian Students here for the berries every summer.

Once the jobs are all gone (which is VERY fast), we are left with streets FULL of French Canadian panhandlers and squeegee kids trying to earn a bus ticket back for fall classes.

No offense toward or opinion formed of French Canadian students here, it’s just a fact of life in BC.

English?

In reply to Official language?

Point me to a document that says some other language is.

But can you show anything

In reply to English?

That says English is the Official Language of the USA?

During the war years there where so many German immigrants that there was talk of putting out copies of legislation in both German and English. I suppose with the current Mexican population the same could be said for Spanish as well.

But what is wrong with understanding a different language if only on a rudimentary basis?

Col ]:)

How do I prove that a document does not exist?

In reply to English?

.
No language is our official language.

Official language

In reply to How do I prove that a document does not exist?

Well NationMaster.com, a really informative site,has the USA listed as not having an official language but instead says that Christianity is the main religion and English and Spanish are the two most common languages.

You shouldn’t have to prove what doesn’t exist. I think that it should be shown that a national language DOES exist though, if that is the main issue being contested.

It’s not up to a defendant to explain what he didn’t do, it’s up to the prosecution to prove what he DID do.

You’ve got it backwards.

In reply to English?

YOU made the claim that “English” is the “official” language of the U.S..

The burden of prove for such is YOURS.

Simple Aristotelian logic; you might want to learn how to apply it.

Speaking as someone from England

In reply to English?

Find your own language. This one is OURS! Spot the link between the country and the language names? We only let you borrow it so long as you didn’t try and steal it completely. All you’ve done in 230 years is bugger up the spelling and invent stupid new words. Now you’re suggesting that you own English just like Bill Gates inventing the Internet. You don’t and he didn’t!

More seriously, show a bit of humility for the diverse origins of the people in your country. To react with anything but embarassment to Jessie’s original post is pretty shallow!

Neil

Neil you LIMIES might of invented English

In reply to Speaking as someone from England

But it took a bunch of Aussies to perfect it into something that is usable. 🙂

Anytime you need English Lessons feel free to ask and I’ll fill you in. 😀

Of course don’t bother me with the American misuse of the language as it is all wrong spelling Colour as Color and using all the wrong letters in spelling quite a few things.

However I’m in complete agreement with you on the last sentence about showing anything but embarrassment is a sad issue.

Or as most of my fellow country people would say “Bloody Oath Mate what’s got up your knickers?” :p

Col ]:)

No worries, mate!

In reply to Neil you LIMIES might of invented English

is, I believe, appropriate to answer ANYTHING!

G’day, Col. Nice to talk to a banana bender like y’self. Just waiting to see if the wowser that my post was aimed at bites.

Neil

😀

THat’s great Colin, Aussie English

In reply to Neil you LIMIES might of invented English

First of all take ALL of your vowel sounds and discard them. Why have 5 vowels when you can make one AIEY sound for most of them?
A, E, I,

Eeer tried havign an Aussie spell his last name for you?

Aussie: “R.E.A.D.E.”
Englishman: “R.I.E.D.A?”
Aussie: “NO mate, it’s R.E.A.D.E”
Englishman: “R.A.I.D.E?”
Aussie: NO MATE! it’s R.E.A.D.E”
Enliman: “Okay I think I got it, R.I.A.D.I?”

And so on.

LOL! But we love you anyway. 😀

No OZ you’ve got it wrong it should read as follows

In reply to THat’s great Colin, Aussie English

Aussie: “R.E.A.D.E.”
Englishman: “R.I.E.D.A?”
Aussie: “NO mate, it’s R.E.A.D.E”
Englishman: “R.A.I.D.E?”
Aussie: Bloody Hell what wrong with you you Pomie Bastard can not you understand English! it’s R.E.A.D.E”
Englisman by now in terror for his life: “Okay I think I got it, R.I.A.D.I?”

Now that more like it! 🙂

Col ]:)

Take it back.

In reply to Speaking as someone from England

.
Thanks for the loaner language, but aren’t doing much with it. You would think that inventive Americans would build our own by now… I read that Ben Franklin took a swing at creating a language from scratch, but it didn’t take.

I think I would have liked French or Spanish better.

TBR

Too late – you’ve broken it!

In reply to Take it back.

We now have so many Americanisms in our version of our language that I don’t think we could purify it. We could be like the French and try very hard to resist the tide by banning the use of English words but it’s not worth the effort.

James D. Nicoll made the oft-quoted observation: “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary.”

You can still borrow English. No noun genders. Why would you want to give THAT up?

Give it another century and Spanish is what you’ll get anyway.

Neil

🙂

The Corrie Street example

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

Okay well this refers to Canadians not Americans, but because Corrie St. is such a hit out here ([b]HUGE[/b] British population in BC) they have started having mroe CANDIAN words added to the scripts. Jack and Vera Duckworth BOTH went to announciation classes to remove some of the Midlands form their accents so they would be more acceptable.

Instead of ‘Turrah’, they now say ‘Catch you Later’, Instead of ‘On yer bike, mate’ they say ‘get lost’, instead of ‘Well chuffed’ they say ‘Happy’ etc.

I’m very sorry this has happened and if there was anything I could do to fix it I would, the only way out though is to stop Canadians watching it, which is not an option for me, sorry mate.

Corrie? Midlands?

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

No way! They are all Mancunians. Trust me, they are not Brummies coz I come from the Midlands and I find the Corrie accent awful! (Brummie is worse, though).

Neil

ManU

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

I know Corrie Street in set in Manchester but the Duckworths are supposed to be from the Midlands if I remember right. Although, Bill Tarmey is originally from Manchester.

Even the southern accents are too hard for a lot of Canadians to catch though, I usually end up playing translator when friends are over.

Oz! Respect!

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

You ARE a Corrie fan! According to Mum, however, the Duckworths are pretty Mancunian and “Vera” has been in the soap since 1974! Plenty of time for any Midland accent to rub off…

LOL

😀

Ken Barlow

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

As for years on the street, Ken Barlow has that one topped now. He’s the only remaining original cast member, he started in 1960 on the VERY FIRST EPISODE!!!

45 years on the same show and still going strong!!! (yet far older and slower than he once was)

But he has a very educated and unflawed accent as he has been a journalist for so many years, originally born in Derbyshire.

Neil

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

Neil,
You stated you are from the Midlands, which part? As you know I live in the US now (Mid West), but my entire family are in the Wolves (West Mids) area.

East Midlands

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

Born and raised in Rugby – home of the magic game. All my relatives still live in and between Rugby and Leicester.

I’ve lived in London ever since University, though.

Neil

Lived in Madison, WI last year

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

Hubby worked at one of the gaming company’s there… got laid off a year ago. He only worked there for 1.5 years, and the kids and I only moved up there after he’d been there 6 months. In the year that I was there, could NOT find an IT job… being a college town, everybody had a degree in CS and my piddly associate in electronics, A+, and 10 years experience amounted to NOTHING… so I worked for the ip-relay company, and then Papa John’s pizza. I wasn’t really sorry to leave and come back [i]home[/i].

Jessie

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

Thats too bad to hear that you could not find work in Madison. I actually live in Madison, and up until last year the IT market was actually very bad. However, I had 5 interviews in January and got 5 job offers. I ended up taking a position in one of the areas most respected IT consulting firms.
Madison is actually a very cool place to live. So did the hubby work for Raven? I have a friend that works there.

Rugby?

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

I guess Rugby has taken over ‘football’ (or soccer for the rest of us over the pond) as the national past time in jolly old England now? At least according to my family (but what the heck do you expect, they are Wolves fans 🙂

Nah.

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

I actually liked the PEOPLE in Madison. And the city of Madison (we actually lived in Middleton) was very cool. It’s just the job market for hubby and my skills and education was not so hot.

Hubby worked for Human Head — which was started by a bunch of guys who didn’t like working at Raven.

Rugby!

In reply to Too late – you’ve broken it!

Rugby came briefly to prominence when England won the World Cup and it’s gone back to very much second place again. I’m a Wales supporter (Welsh father) so I am currently in a state of disbelief as we just won the Grand Slam this year.

This country is OBSESSED with soccer, “The Beautiful Game”, and has been for the last few years since the middle classes discovered it. We now have footballers as major celebrities and a huge influx of foreign players. Arsenal recently fielded a team without a single Englishman.

The focus has moved to the European competitions, specifically the Champions League with all the best teams from Europe competing.

I’m not too big a fan at the moment because both of my teams, Coventry and Crystal Palace, look like going down a division.

Not too good for the West Midlands. West Brom are going down from Premiership to Championship unless a miracle happens. Wolves are stranded mid-table in the Championship. Villa and Birmingham are also boringly mid-table but at least in the Premiership.

Neil

Inventive Americans?

In reply to Take it back.

Damn, I just spit milk through my nose!

You guys don’t actually have INVENTORS do you?

I figured you just bought patents from other countries inventors and capitalized on them, then Asia takes them and makes them smaller and cheaper. 😀 LOL

You even took credit for inventing the lightbulb heavens sake!

Inventive Americans, oh well it was worth the smile. Cheers!

Seldom do I have to say this,

In reply to Inventive Americans?

.
Oz, get bent. Americans have contributed to the world of inventions to the envy of most the world.

What did you guys do?

Well as a Fair Dunkum Aussie

In reply to Seldom do I have to say this,

I would say just sit back drinking and watch the Germans invent a lot of nice things and then steal them for ourselves. 🙂

But there where a few misguided individuals over here as well who just had to build things like the guy who invented the Parabolic Antenna and then instead on not wanting everyone to pay him for developing it and left it as his gift to the world. 😀

Or the Jinderle Over the Horizon Radar which our US cousins spent hundreds of million $ proving that it just wouldn’t work and then some half pissed Aussie with a wad of chewing gum and a few tin cans made one that did work. I could go one but the list is very long and quite intimating as there was all that good drinking time wasted in such frivolous pursuits which on most occasions didn’t even return the Beer Money that was wasted in developing these things. :p

I would imagine that our Canadian cousins have much the same idea why reinvent the wheel every-time you need something just let someone else develop it perfect the design and then buy in the products made in Taiwan for next to nothing. Wasting all that effort when there is good drinking time going to waste just is not acceptable. 😀

Nor is importing a bunch or overseas immigrants to develop the things that you think you need like A Bombs and Rockets. It’s far easier to allow someone else to invent these things and keep their fellow countrymen in that country and then steal it that way you get no interracial problems cropping up and misunderstandings owing to the different cultures that are involved. 🙂

As an added benefit you maintain racial purity which isn’t such a bad thing is it? No that is a really bad thing as isn’t that exactly what the Nazi’s wanted to do? 🙁

Col ]:)

tbrag…

In reply to Inventive Americans?

Wow, you sur eas hell don’t know how to take humour too well do you. You should have known I was having a fun poke when I mentioned how the Asians make everythign smaller and cheaper.

But you have a good question, what did we do?
Actually some of the most important life saving inventions on Earth.

Here’s few for starters;

>Bromine
>Insulin
>Heart Pacemaker
>Silicon Chip blood analyzer
>Telephone
>Zipper
>Electric car heater
>Electric Range
>Electric lightbulb [i](Henry Woodward invented the Electric light bulb in 1874 and sold the patent to Thomas Edison)[/i]
>JAVA
>Gramophone [i](co-invented by Alexander Graham Bell & Emile Berliner in 1889)[/i]
>The Canadarm [/i](on all of YOUR space shuttles)[/i]
>Electron Microscope
>Film colourization
>Jetliner
>Kerosene
>NEWSPRINT
>Paint Roller
>Radio transmitted voice

And of course the most important invention in the history of man,

>Tuck-Away-Handle Beer Carton [i]invented by Steve Pasjac in 1957 [/i]

In other words, not much I suppose, pretty stoned and unhelpful country.

Oz.

In reply to Inventive Americans?

.
No, I took it fine, just as I reread, it comes off a bit more harsh than I might have intended.

Let me say, I am very proude of my country. I have been a History buff of sorts for sometime, and I love a lot of things about my country. I despise most post WWII politics, and that makes me seem anti-american. When I defend a long history of diverse and inventive people, it makes me a very happy American. When I have to talk about the closeminded, hateful, xenophobic Americans that surround me today…

This discussions started with a child getting taught to think “America, love it, cause its the only country that counts.”. I do hope this kid gets a little travleing under his belt, but I doubt that he will. He will never make it out of his hometown, and never shake this closed world he, his parents, and this country has built. He will learn little about his own country, and less about others. Too bad.

I was under the impression That a growing number of Americans

In reply to Take it back.

Where now speaking Klingon and it was accepted as a language by many. 🙂

Now that would work quite nicely for all concerned but of course any translation program that was put out by MS would get it all wrong as they just would not accept any of the insults that are so prevalent in that Language so something that actually said You Stupid Motherless Bastard would come out as I’m unsure of what your parentage is. :p

Col ]:)

You have solved a mystery

In reply to I was under the impression That a growing number of Americans

I think Oz occasionally lapses into Klingon when typing!

I’ve checked back on one of his typos in a reply to Maxwell “Hab SoSlI’ Quch!” and had it translated. It means “Your mother has a smooth forehead”.

Nasty!

Neil

Neil Maxwell’s mother

In reply to I was under the impression That a growing number of Americans

Only has a smooth forehead because of constantly being hit there with Maxwell’s Silver Hammer so it really isn’t a fair comparison. 🙂

But the meaning isn’t lost on me. 😀

Col ]:)

Sad

In reply to You’re kidding right?

Yes MOST people would say it is okay for our kids to learn culture. NObody is CHANGING anything, it is said in ENglish THEN in another language, who is hurt, what morals does it destry, what did your forefather fight for ythat is being desecrated? NOTHING! Just your over zealous and seemingly racist mind set.

[i]”When did it become necessary for school to even have a foreign language week? This was something we did not have when I was in school, why do we suddenly need it now?”[/i] LOL

WHen YOU were in school the world and your ocuntry especially was rampant with racism, as it still is today. The idea is to teach children about equality and acceptance of the differences in our society. I would venture a guess that when YOU were in school it was hardly as mixed as it is today, women were at home in the kitchen and that was just fine and dandy.

Then some people woke up and said enough’s enough, lets actually practice what we preach and prove we are a truly multi cuturally accepting nation.

Funny, many people have been here saying how America is the most multiculturally accepting nation of all, which you are not, and that is actually displayed VERY well in your post.

Well done. Now go take the dawg dayn to the crick for a drank of water.

In my kids’ school

In reply to Sad

They acknowledge religious occasions from all the major religions and use it as a learning opportunity. Frankly when I was a kid, we had a religion teacher, who taught a Protestant religion in a public school. It was presumed Catholics would go to a Catholic school. The one Jewish student we had was forced to sit in the hall during those classes. That is something I regret deeply, the fact that she was ostracized by our school board, set apart.

I think its much better today, with acceptance and tolerance for all.

The argument that “it was good enough for us” doesn’t cut it. After all if our ancesters accepted that argument, we’d still have slavery.

James

Yes sir

In reply to In my kids’ school

And i just had to reply to let you know how AWFUL that was to isolate someone’s religion in your school. I feel sorry for her, yet she probably developed more fight and drive to be better than the rest.

But that is really sad, painted quite a picture for me.

Typical Oz BS

In reply to Sad

I did not say it wasn’t OK for kids to learn culture so I don’t know where that comment is coming from.

My forefathers didn’t fight for someone to recite the pledge in another language. I dare say a few of them have probably turned over in their graves with all the BS that’s gone on in this country the last few years.

You state a LOL over my statement about a foreign language week. Typical liberal response to laugh at someone’s statement as if you were the only one who had an opinion that counts. There are plenty of people who feel the same way about this as I do.

When I was in school we knew how to spell the word country which you seem to have a problem with. We learned about acceptance and equality without reciting something in another language.

Gee, who is the most accepting multicultural society, Canada? I am all for people from different cultures coming to this country as long as they do so legally, aren’t terrorists, and are at least willing to make an attempt to learn the language the overwhelming majority of us use.

Finally, you were managing to avoid a personal attack until you got to the comment about the “dawg”, you can take that and shove you know where.

Then again, I didn’t contradict myself

In reply to Typical Oz BS

While we are splitting hairs, I have no problem with spelling, my problem is typing.

YOU were the one who has reiterated twice now that it is wrong to recite your country’s pledge in any language other than your own, now that speaks volumes as many have already said here, yet I am the only one you see as against it for some reason.

You forefathers fought for a free America where people could live with personal freedoms that allowed inidvidual growth a prosperity, yet you feel that people must only utter a salute to your country in one language. That would be no more repressive than telling someone what religion they can practice, what you escaped British rule for.

As for Canada being more multicultural actually that WAS said just the other day on a new report.

It was shown that despite the diverse ethinicty in America, Canadian schools and companies have been far mroe muliculturally accepting towards new immigrants. This is VERY visible in the case of less racial violence, more mixed races in the workplace, for eg. you have NEVER seen a Canadian here complain about what language coworkers speak, but we HAVE seen more than one American do so.

You have NEVER seen a Canadian complain about language spoken in schools, yet we are discussing this issue on a American perspective right now.

If you are goind to start claiming that America is more multicuturally acceptring than others you will need to actually have a society that supports your claims, which you do not as you have demonstrated. This would never have even made a newspaper, it wouldn’t happen here, first of all we don’t force our cihldren to praise our country every day before lessons begin, we have more ethnic diversity in Toronto and Vancouver than most US cities combined.

So don’t even TRY and play that card, it’s soggy and doesn’t hold water as most everyone knows.

NOw you can turn this into an attack on America, as I somehow feel you will try to anyway, or you can face that we live in a different and changing world now. Part of that difference is we don’t care about things like what language people choose to address our nation in.

As for your question about WHY are we having multinational week in school, well you just summed it all up in a nutshell didn’t you?

I don’t know any other people who would denounce foreign language week, or even month for that matter. THAT is why YOU have been labelled as not being multiculturally accepting.

DO you think allowing them to occupy a secluded portion of your country but not accepting the language into schools is being culturally diverse?

Give your head a shake and think about it again.
The two don’t mix. If YOU accept other nationalities into your mainsteam society, then you also accept them in your schools and you children becoming more aware and accepting of cultural differences, to denoounce that is to be 100% prejudiced, no if’s, and’s or but’s about it.

There’s no 60/40 rule when it comes to interracial acceptance, you either do or you don’t. You have demonstrated very clearly here that you think you are culturally diverse but don’t think it should be recognized by schools.

As I said before, that’s SAD.

Ever hear of being concise?

In reply to Then again, I didn’t contradict myself

Unlike some others here I don’t have the time to respond to this silliness.

Besides it’s readily apparent that any kind of response will only trigger more nonsense from you. (it always does)

So you haven’t been actually thinking about what I’ve said here at all

In reply to Ever hear of being concise?

(it always does) leads me to believe that no matter whay I say you have a preconceived notion of my views on the subject, or BIAS in simpler terms.

I read your posts quite closely and to be quite honest I am not the only one who has read the same message as you have noticed.

If YOU do not wish to be misunderstood, it may be worth yor time to actually try and post a comment that doesn’t reiterate those MISUNDERSTANDING people have had about your comments.

It’s got nothing to do with ME, as you would like to twist it to show, it has EVERYTHING to do with your OWN comments, I am also not the only one who has noticed this as you can clearly see. So what do you say to others then?

“Besides it’s readily apparent that any kind of response will only trigger more nonsense from you. (it always does)”

Nonsense? I read your comments and responded to them, does that mean your comments are complete nonsense then? I WAS referring to what YOU had said.

Will you say the same when

In reply to Typical Oz BS

.
Spanish speakers outnumber English speakers?

Si

In reply to Will you say the same when

Couldn’t help myself.

But seriously, you can stand there and put your finger in the dike all you want. We have similar issues in Quebec where they struggle to keep french pure, in the tide of english communications all around them. Its a losing battle – french is still used but english words and phrases creep in. Try ordering a chien chaud in Quebec – they will laugh, but ask for a hot dog or “une steamie” and you will get what you want.

Language is not set in stone, it evolves. By the time spanish speakers outnumber english ones, both languages will have changed. English itself is a combination of germanic and latinate languages, with the odd bit of gaelic for colour. It reflects the fact that the country changed, having been ruled by Rome, Germanic tribes(Angles, Saxons and Danes), and Normans(french from Normandy) before combining all these influences and setting its own course.

James

James

Very true.

In reply to Si

.
undoubted the spanglish that become our national language will be just that, a fusion.

I don’t worry too much about the change in linguistics, as long as it excludes that phone typing shorthand. It will happen, even if it were just a English speaking country.

TBR

Ignorance is forgiveable; stupidity is not.

In reply to Typical Oz BS

Your posts demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of the principles from which this country was birthed.

You also have an obvious opinion as to what you would like those principles to have been.

Fortunately for the rest of us, your notions of such lack any authoritative substance.

By the way, my father & uncles served in WWII, and I during ‘Nam, so that idiots like you might have the freedom to spout your xenophobic pseudo-patriotic drivel.

Excuse Me?

In reply to Ignorance is forgiveable; stupidity is not.

Obviously my words have been misinterpreted. I too am a vietnam vet and had an uncle who was killed in the South Pacific in WWII.

I’m not going to say anymore because it’s apparent to me that no matter what I say here there’s too many who are ready to twist any and everything I say.

Well for some reason best known to themselves

In reply to Excuse Me?

Every Veteran that I know who saw real fighting and was not an armchair general in the back of the fighting will just not talk about their experiences during any war.

The most that any will admit to on any other day than ANZAC Day here is that they where in one of the armed forces. But even on ANZAC Day here the best that you will get out of any of them is that they are willing to March in the parade and play Two Up at the pub after-wards.

Most of these guys don’t even wear any medals but allow their grandchildren to wear them instead as they happily march with their Grand Dad/ Grand Mom.

I have a cousin who served in Nam and the only thing that I can ever dig out of him is just how he had to tell a customs officer on his return for some R & R that a tape deck that he had brought over there wasn’t battery powered so it really attracted import duty. The Customs Officer then asked him if he was to connect several thousand batteries together would the Tape Deck work? His answer was I do not know which was good enough to get it into the country without paying any duties.

I also know a guy who was in the Gulf War 1 and other than discussing Gulf War Syndrome he will never talk about anything that he did there and he was a surgeon who was no where near the front lines but on a hospital ship in the Gulf patching up the troops who got wounded. One time when I was cleaning up his computer I found a couple of pictures from that era and even then he would only say yes that is the ship I was stationed on and that is the Missouri which was guarding us. Even then he was very drunk and I’ve never been able to get any more information out of him since.

Col ]:)

Because war is Hell?

In reply to Well for some reason best known to themselves

My father was exceedingly reticent to talk about his experiences during WWII. At age 58, he was just beginning to open up to me about it, but then died suddenly & unexpectedly. Now, I’ll never know what happened that made him wait so long to begin speaking about the subject.

Mis-interpreted? I think not.

In reply to Excuse Me?

You’ve made your views pretty clear.

They simply fail on the merits.

Unless of course

In reply to You’re kidding right?

IF you happen to be Mexican where Spanish would be your language of Cuban or any number of other immigrants who moved to the US over the years.

You currently speak English because the US was once a British Colony who your forefathers fought to war against to become independent so effectively your country sold its rights to claim English as their official Language during that war. The fact that it remains spoken by many is inconsequential and the school doesn’t need a Foreign Language week it is a country wide thing where other languages are accepted in the spirit of cooperation and universal friendliness. No doubt that particular school teaches a few foreign languages as well so wouldn’t it be in the best interests of those students learning a foreign language to hear it spoken on something that they know so well?

After all it wasn’t as if the the pledge was only spoken in a foreign language but first in English and then whatever language was chosen for that day and we are only talking about 5 days here not an ongoing thing.

To me it smacks of Hypocrisy to show such insubordination to the teacher who asked this kid to show the respect that the Pledge is supposed to be shown. If he had of been telling jokes or generally misbehaving while the pledge was spoken in English would that have been OK with you?

But at the very least it was a few days off school for this kid but if I had of been running the school I would have thrown him out as an undesirable and disturbing influence on other students.

This kid is far more likely to grow up to become the next Grand Wizard of the KKK than a humanitarian who is only interested in world peace.

Also are you so sure that English is the predominate language spoken by the majority of the students at this particular school. To me this sounds very much like those bad old days when parents kept their children home from school because Black Americans would now be attending the same schools. Do you really want to revert back to those days?

Col ]:)

Over the Top!!!!

In reply to Unless of course

Such BS, if you don’t like English or want to speak something else go live in the country where your language choice is predominant.

It’s not so much that but

In reply to Over the Top!!!!

With the ease of international travel today it is unacceptable to expect everyone else to understand you when you travel to their countries.

Just what is wrong with learning the very basics of other languages and then hearing them in something that you know well? From what I understand of the original story the Pledge was read in English first where the students where expected to go along with it and then they got to hear it in a different language for all of 5 days.

Now that is hardly an earth shattering experience for anyone is it? It was not as if the students involved where expected to say it in whatever language was being used on the day just listen and show it the respect that they are supposed to show it when they hear it in their own language which they already had.

As for moving to a different country well for 2 years I did and worked in Germany and I spoke no German which I wish I did as I could have learned a lot more and had a far easier time with my work over there. Try to communicate with someone else in a car at speed when you speak no German and they speak no English it isn’t hard it’s impossible so you can never be sure if what you want done by the professional driver is going to be done or that something completely different that you never ever wanted to see let alone be in the car that is doing it gets done.

While I’m not for all of this PC Crap I really don’t see any problem with this for such a short time and held in conjunction with an International celebration.

After all when you and I where at school did we ever have a RED NOSE DAY or any of the things like that which do so much good for so many people and help fund research into SIDS, Cancer, and many other projects?

Also I believe that a Foreign Language is still a required course in the lower levels of schooling until the students reach a level where they are supposed to decide what courses they will undertake to finish their schooling or continue onto College isn’t it?

While you might consider this all PC BS it is just a sign of the times and we just have to live with it and accept these things as they help broaden our outlook and not close out eyes. After all isn’t this what Education is supposed to do?

Also while you claim that the posting that you are answering is “Over the Top” I notice that you didn’t attempt to address a single question that I asked you just got on your soap box saying how things should be rather than attempting to contribute some constructive criticism. I’m only too happy to hear different points of view but I would like them to be informed and informative rather than just a load of Codswallap. You will not offend me one little bit by attempting to tear my answer to shreds I’ll learn from any answer like that and I will not burst into tears and run to mommy demanding that we declare way on you personally or as a nation just to teach you a lesson.

I would say that your forefathers died protecting the right to do as we please in an informed manner and hopefully the ultimate price that they paid will not be in vain and the events that caused such a major loss of life will never again happen. But maybe I’m wrong and they just died for the sake of dieing and hoping that their descendent’s would do exactly the same thing.

Col ]:)

Clarifying some things

In reply to It’s not so much that but

I don’t want to get into a long-winded response but it’s pretty obvious from your post that some things need to be clarified.

(1) What does reciting the pledge of allegiance have to do with the language one uses when in another country? Yes if you’re going to engage in a business that requires you to speak another’s language by all means learn the language and use it.

(2) Why pick the Pledge, why not something else? It would serve the same purpose. Using the pledge implies an ulterior motive.

(3) If you check my post I never discussed working in a foreign country, see my answer in 1 for my thoughts here.

(4) “While I’m not for all of this PC Crap I really don’t see any problem with this for such a short time and held in conjunction with an International celebration.” Let’s just say I agree to disagree with you on this point.

(5) At my school despite what some may think, we did have days to benefit people everywhere that were not as fortunate as us.

(6) Regarding foreign languages as being requirements, yes this is true and yes I took a foreign language but was never required to recite the Pledge in this language, there were plenty of exercises already included in the book that the teacher did not have to resort to using anything else.

(7) Concerning what Education is suppose to do, it seems to me that the Educational establishment in this country continues to have trouble figuring out just exactly what it is suppose to do and yes far too much time is being devoted to being PC because there’s too many people afraid to “tell it like it is”. Yes, I believe we should be open but I also believe we should not allow ourselves to be duped.

(8) Regarding the rather long paragraph that starts with “Also while you claim…..”. I did not have a lot of time in that post to respond, I was trying to be concise. This post is a little more detailed since it is apparent there are a lot of people who have tried to put words in my mouth or suggest in some way that I’m against various cultures.

(9) While I’m sure my forefathers would have defended one’s right to say the pledge in another language, I don’t think they would have been too thrilled with the idea. This was the intent of my initial post, to say I didn’t think it was right and as I’ve said elsewhere in this post there are plenty of exercises in textbooks using other material besides the pledge so why not use them.

To sum up, I’m not against other cultures and do recognize there are situations and times when using a foreign language is appropriate but I don’t think the pledge is the proper vehicle for this.

In concise terms…

In reply to Clarifying some things

What IS your problem with listening to someone else recite the Pledge in another language?

I don’t consider it a problem!

In reply to In concise terms…

As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think it’s right. Feel free to disagree as obviously many on this site do but I still think it’s wrong and just as many have said here from time to time I’m entitled to my opinion.

Your opinion

In reply to In concise terms…

As you say each is entitled to an opinion. IN a discussion, people will discuss tyheir views o fyour opinion though. To just post without response you need a blog or try tech Q&A.

You had no propblem saying my opinion was:
“Besides it’s readily apparent that any kind of response will only trigger more nonsense from you. (it always does)”

So where do you get off defending your own opinion while discounting others as BS or nonsense?

Hyposcrisy, good enough for you but not acceptable from others, well done.

But let me guess:
“Besides it’s readily apparent that any kind of response will only trigger more nonsense from you. (it always does)”

Grow up already

I’ll rephrase

In reply to In concise terms…

What isn’t right about hearing the Pledge recited by someone else in a different language?

Singing in a different language

In reply to Clarifying some things

As a sometime choristor and choir director, I’ve heard this debate in a subtly different form a number of times.

On many occasions I have sung religious music in a langauge that I don’t understand. For a religious person, thats an issue. But as long as we understand what the meaning of those words are, we can manage to do a piece in Latin, Hebrew, French, German or whatever, with a sufficient level of meaning to move a congregation or an audience.

As long as the people reciting the pledge are doing so while understanding the meaning of the words, and treating them with the dignity and respect they deserve, I don’t have an issue with it. If a student in one of my kids classes wanted to sing “O Canada” in another language, as long as they took it seriously I would welcome it.

Its clear that the entire school got the chance to say the pledge in English, and then another “Langauge of the day”. How does this disrespect the pledge? the language of english is not cast in stone, its a living thing – we use a different version of the language than our ancestors. Therefore why can’t we accept that someone speaking in another language, one that holds some level of meaning for some people at the school, is a way of being inclusive and bringing greater meaning to everyone, nto just the english only kids.

James

WHY?

In reply to Clarifying some things

What is it with the pledge of allegiance that would imply it is to be said in English?

I can see it being defended religiously as it refers to God, not very accepting of the multicultural reality of this day and age, but there’s no reference to language from what I can tell that would state that it is supposed to be spoken in English.

Do you recite it in broad accent, as I assume it would have been originally, or is YOUR version of English accepted instead? What if someone had a BRITISH accent? What about Asian Americans who can’t speak clear English the way you or I may?

If you are going to deter language variations, you can’t stop at just ‘English is English’, because it isn’t.

There’s no reference to language in the pledge of Allegiance, to say there is is to say everyone that is a valued American citizen speaks English fluently and that they couldn’t pay their country respect by saying that pledge to their flag in another language no matter what it means to them or how loyal of an American they are. In other words it’s ‘language discrimination’.

It’s just too hypocritical to really defend such views as they makes no sense at all to say that you must speak the POA in English in what boasts themselves as a multicultural society. Especialy when it is spoken in English AND a secoind language, I can see your point if a school was a non English school and always had the pledge in a foreign language but this is just shows acceptance o culture in todays society, remember it’s not the 1700’s now, we DO have a mixed society that has made our countries much stronger than they were before.

Would it be better if they said the pledge in Engliahs and then had all other nationalities represnted say their own pledge/anthem or whatever in their language too?

The POA, followed by God Save the Queen, followed by the Canadian National anthem, followed by Waltzing Matilda? Just so we can keep everyone happy without forcing them to speak English?

Just as the analogy above is completely ridiculous, so is making a fuss over what language(s) the pledge is recited in, other than English, for ONE WEEK! It’s nuts.

Blowing your top

In reply to Over the Top!!!!

Your point of view is a bit extreme, and ignorant.

While I maintain that decency commands one learn the predominant language spoken in the country in which one lives, certain cultural differences may never be quite understood. …particularly for those older than, say, teenagers.

Learning a language can also help you understand the cultural differences, but the ‘host’ country should also be aware of the potential meanings behind what others say. [No need to start WWIII just because of a mistranslation, or an awkward foreign figure of speech.]

Growing up American doesn’t mean every other person in the world will bow to your preferences, and teaching that in grade school should be encouraged.

Personally, I love learning other languages – I have time invested in about a dozen of them. Perhaps this illustrates my bias, but perhaps I’m just a more aware person, too.

No one in this country has the right to force anyone else out of it for language preferences. You have the right to your opinion, and in most cases you have the right to express it. …even when you’re wrong. But just as easily as you can tell someone that they should leave and find a different country, one might suggest you do the same.

Yo’ Mama!

In reply to Over the Top!!!!

That was a “Yo’ Mama!” response if ever I heard one. He brings up valid counterpoints to your argument, and all you can come up with is, “If you don’t like it, leave.”?

I thought you claimed to be racially accepting?

In reply to Over the Top!!!!

Talk about hypocritical. One minute you claim you are a multicultural society but then claim that if you don’t want to speak our language go somewhere else.

You sir, are the epitomy of the problem we are discussing here. Your mind will never allow you to see it or understand it but it is clear for anyone to see. YOU are THAT dad, that feels America was founded by white English speaking Christians and if they don’t conform to it too bad.

Isn’t that exactly WHY your country was founded? Because you wanted freedom and prosperity for all men, women and children and DIDN’T want to be forced into compliance with the United Kingdom and The Church of England?

Yet now you feel that YOU should enforce that same repression on others from lands who seek freedom and prosperity for their families in YOUR country.

With guys like you still roaming the planet it’s no wonder these problems still exist.

Out of bounds!

In reply to I thought you claimed to be racially accepting?

I don’t know how you go from language used reciting a pledge to racial accusations. Don’t fit and not what I was getting at.

Please spare us one of your multi page rants where you manage to twist everything.

NO twist

In reply to Out of bounds!

‘Language discrimination’ is VERY often tried as ‘racial discrimination’ in both Canadian and US courts.

NO twist, reality. We went through this a while back and I posted several links and references to, Canadian, US and International law where this is seen as racial discrimination.

Blowing your top

In reply to Over the Top!!!!

[This had been posted earlier, but hasn’t shown up in a few hours. I will paraphrase myself…]

One could say the same to you. If you don’t like someone speaking in a non-predominant language, feel free to move to a country where that is the law.

[Author]

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