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The fundamentalist factor ….

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Ladies, gentlemen and others …

I wish to annouce that I, a humble foreigner from Australia who is not supposed to know anything about American politics, correctly predicted the outcome of the US Presidential election, and also the principal factor behind Bush’s victory.

It is actually very simple: George Bush claims to be a born-again Christian. I figured that masses of Christians would vote for him because of his stand on moral issues, and overlook the more important issues (IMHO of course) of the national economy and the war in Iraq.

My forecast was vindicated 100 per cent in an interview shown on Australian television last night (Thursday evening my time).

Here is a link to the interview:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2004/s1235130.htm

And here is the relevant excerpt:

“In voter surveys taken as people left their polling places across America, a surprising fact emerged.

A large percentage of voters ranked moral issues as high in order of importance to them as terrorism, the war in Iraq and the economy.

And even more significant, of those who ranked moral issues as their number one concern, 80 per cent voted for George Bush.

And bear this in mind, it’s estimated 25 per cent of the electorate are white Evangelicals or born again Christians.

This mobilisation of new voters from that group has emerged as one of the deciding factors in the campaign.

As President Bush himself acknowledged, the architect was his political guru Karl Rove.

Topic

There is Very Little Difference …..

In reply to The fundamentalist factor ….

between the ravings of the most fanatical of the Religious Right and the rantings of the most fanatical Greens. Both claim that their self-justification overrides the rule of reason and the workings of a free market.

One is simply the antidote for the other.

Ecology – Deflect and Deny

In reply to There is Very Little Difference …..

re:
between the ravings of the most fanatical of the Religious Right and the rantings of the most fanatical Greens.
—– —– —– —– —– —–

It’s not the “Greens” who oppose Militant Christians – it’s everybody who’s not a Militant Christian that opposes them.

It’s typical for Bush’s followers to change the topic away from their radical televangelism toward *any* other topic – even ecology.

The fact is Militant Christians are as real of a problem here as they were in Talibani Afghanistan, or the Nazis in depression-era Germany.

100,000 dead Iraqis can attest to that.

Nope

In reply to Ecology – Deflect and Deny

The common sense of the center defeated your friends on Tuesday, just as it defeated the bigotry of Bob Dornan in Orange County in 1996.

(Note that the sensible Libertarian message of Congressman Dana Rohrabacher continues to score in a younger, less-white, less-wealthy portion of the same county).

And the bigotry of Oliver North in Virginia in 1994.

(Sensible centrist John Warner continues to serve).

And the lunacy of California’s “Big Green” initiative the same year.

When your ideas can be marketed on a free-market basis to people who shoulder the responsibilities of a real career, they’ll be ready to listen.

Otherwise, you were told what to do with your agenda on Tuesday.

Please exercise that function.

Center?

In reply to Nope

re:
The common sense of the center defeated your friends on Tuesday, just as it defeated the bigotry of Bob Dornan in Orange County in 1996.
—– —– —– —– —–

That’s an odd way to refer to Militant Religious extremists.

Meanwhile, 100,000 Iraqis are dead for no good reason. How many soccer stadiums would that fill?

On Playing Defense

In reply to Center?

Dornan and North based their campaign on the prejudices of the established (and usually closed-minded) Reiligious Right.

And it wasn’t enough…they were voted out.

At some point, too close a link to theocratic thinking becomes a liablity.

Faced with a choice between theocracy and collectivism, and no postive alternative, I will vote “for” no one, but “against” the candidate I perceive to be the greater threat.

Usually that’s the Democrat….but not always.

On Playing Defense

In reply to Center?

Dornan and North based their campaign on the prejudices of the established (and usually closed-minded) Reiligious Right.

And it wasn’t enough…they were voted out.

At some point,too close a link to theocratic thinking becomes a liablity.

Faced with a choice between theocracy and collectivism, and no postive alternative, I will vote for no one, but against the candidate I perceive to be the greater threat.

Usually that’s the Democrat….but not always.

The view from one fundamentalist

In reply to The fundamentalist factor ….

It is interesting to me that religious people regardless of their belief are considered by non-religious people as fundamentalists. Well for me I think that is a good descriptor. I am a Christian Fundamentalist but perhaps my position obscures my logic and reason. I do not consider myself violent and I definitely do not try to forcibly make everyone else a Christian. Nor do I or anyone I know advocate forcing our religion into the government. Christians want what every other religion wants in the US ? the freedom to practice our religious beliefs when ever and where ever we choose. This is what is guaranteed us in the constitution.
Regardless of acceptance the fact remains true that Laws by their very nature are legislated morality. We say that it is immoral to murder, or to steal and we make laws to that effect. Society et al (regardless of religious affiliation) has determined the sociological standard for hundreds of years and yet when one disagrees with the rest of society then it is the general populous who become ?ignorant? or ?blind? and the elite who become the ?enlightened? trend setters who will guide society into a brave new world.
More Somma anyone?

Militant vs. Fundamentalist

In reply to The view from one fundamentalist

re:
I am a Christian Fundamentalist but perhaps my position obscures my logic and reason.
—- —- —- —- —-

I think “extremist” or “militant” is more descriptive in your case.

You have expressed ZERO opposition to the Bush Regime’s massive slaughter of Iraqis and the looting of their land.

You have, on the other hand, whole-heartedly advocated further killings, defended the lies about the war, and attacked people.

These *very* unChristian sentiments are certainly not “fundamentalist” values. They are, on the other hand, Militant and Extremist.

Why do I get sucked into these things!

In reply to Militant vs. Fundamentalist

Ok Bucky ? Firstly I disagree with you on your numbers but we?ve covered that.
When have I ever ?whole-heartedly advocated further killings??
Please list (detailed and give sources) the lies about the war that I have supported.
I have attacked you in other posts this is true. You have degraded my country, my fellow Marines and my God. I think you deserve a little heat.
Perhaps you could look in the bible or the Torah and read what it says about war. I?ll give you a hint ? read about Joshua and Sampson. There are other examples but there?s as good a point to start.

Reply To: The fundamentalist factor ….

In reply to Why do I get sucked into these things!

re:
Please list (detailed and give sources) the lies about the war that I have supported.
—- —- —- —-

Did you not get suckered into supporting the war because of the lies about ties to al Quaeda and lies about nuclear weapons? Yes, of course you did.

Do you continue to support the war against the People of Iraq, describing the freedom fighters as “terrorists”? Yes, of course you do.

re:
You have degraded my country, my fellow Marines and my God.
—— —— —— ——

No, I didn’t. You think I did, but you’re not very bright, and are wrong about it.

It is so utterly disgusting that you, an American, react in such a cowardly way – seeing everything as a threat, and wanting to attack everyone for threatening you.

Don’t you know that it’s your own sociopathic desire to be a victim that drives your thirst for Muslim blood?

And I suppose that is why

In reply to Reply To: The fundamentalist factor ….

We rammed passenger jets into buildings full of innocent civilian muslims..thus provoking them into a war against us? How is the temperature on Jupiter these days by the way?

Anti-Iraqi Propoganda

In reply to And I suppose that is why

re:
We rammed passenger jets into buildings full of innocent civilian muslims..thus provoking them into a war against us? How is the temperature on Jupiter these days by the way?
—– —– —– —– —–

The Iraqis didn’t do that.
It’s a real tragedy that so many folks like you think they did.

If you were *really* concerned about that, you would be as angry as the rest of us at the President for letting bin Laden go free.

Thanks

In reply to Reply To: The fundamentalist factor ….

Thanks for the witty retort. Have a nice Thanksgiving.

Did you mean mine…..Thanks…if not

In reply to Thanks

Have a nice thanksgiving anyway…!

For Bucky

In reply to Did you mean mine…..Thanks…if not

I am sick and tired of his garbage. Thank you for your kind words and I hope you and your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Fundamentalism versus fanaticism

In reply to The view from one fundamentalist

You may well be a fundamentalist Christian, and feel no desire to murder. However by your own definition you draw your beliefs from the Bible.

The difference with the “Muslim” terrorists is that they DO NOT follow the teachings of the Koran.

As someone pointed out in an earlier discussion, suicide is expressly forbidden in the Koran.

As a Christian can you truly say that your follow the commandment of Christ?

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Do you LOVE the terrorists? Do you attempt to do good things for them? Do you pray for them?

Very good point!

In reply to Fundamentalism versus fanaticism

God calls us to love all man kind. It is what is called Agape. This is God?s love for man and I pray that God gives me the ability to love my neighbor (fellow man) as he does.
Understand that I do pray for the Iraqi people and for the misled all over the world. I understand that many of these people fight and die (sacrifice themselves) for the words of men and believe that what they are doing is right. So I do pray for their families, I pray that Gods will be done on this Earth.

Fire and Miss

In reply to Very good point!

re:
I understand that many of these people fight and die (sacrifice themselves) for the words of men and believe that what they are doing is right. So I do pray for their families, I pray that Gods will be done on this Earth.

—– —– —– —– —–

I think the question was, “Do you pray for the terrorists”. Not “Do you pray for their families”.

Do you really, as a fundamentalist would, pray to God to forgive Mohammed Atta and Osama bin Laden, or do you as a militant Christo-Republican would, pray for the strength to destroy them.

From what I’ve read of your posts – you have no good feelings toward the “terrorists” at all. Further, you launch the most outrageous attacks against anyone who defends those tortured souls.

While it is a very *Republican* to express hatred for all manner of people, it is decidedly unChristian to wish for harm to come to anyone – even your enemies.

By straying so far from the teachings of Jesus, you only empower and embolden your enemies.

Do you still think you’re a fundamentalist?

I will pray for you!

In reply to Fire and Miss

I’ll say a prayer for you too Bucky. Nothing is beyond God’s power and if there was hope for me then there’s hope for you too.

Dios Gracias

In reply to I will pray for you!

re:
I’ll say a prayer for you too Bucky.
—- —– —- —– —- —–

Thanks, but save it for bin Laden. He needs your prayers more than I – and it’s what Jesus would want you to do.

WWJK – What Would Jesus Kill?

Yes………..Satan………..

In reply to Dios Gracias

OHHHHHHHHH……..I’m sorry (Bucky)……I thought you were someone else!….
Ace Venture….Pet detective

For all humanity

In reply to Fundamentalism versus fanaticism

I pray for God?s will to be done here on Earth. He knows what he?s doing. As far as praying for one?s enemies one can look to how David prayed:
Psalms 18:35 ? 18:42 ?Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.
Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip.
I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.
I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.
For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.
Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.
They cried, but [there was] none to save [them: even] unto the LORD, but he answered them not.
Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.?
Point being is there are evil people in the world and God deals with them as he sees fit. If he is now using the United States for this purpose then great. If not and the US needs to be dealt with then I welcome his rebuke.

God’s Wrath

In reply to For all humanity

re:
Point being is there are evil people in the world and God deals with them as he sees fit. If he is now using the United States for this purpose then great. If not and the US needs to be dealt with then I welcome his rebuke.
—– —– —– —– —–

Why welcome his rebuke, when it’s so much bettter to just follow his commandments?

Thou shalt not kill – God.
Thou shalt not bear false witness – God.

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