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The fundamentalist factor ....

By jardinier ·
Ladies, gentlemen and others ...

I wish to annouce that I, a humble foreigner from Australia who is not supposed to know anything about American politics, correctly predicted the outcome of the US Presidential election, and also the principal factor behind Bush's victory.

It is actually very simple: George Bush claims to be a born-again Christian. I figured that masses of Christians would vote for him because of his stand on moral issues, and overlook the more important issues (IMHO of course) of the national economy and the war in Iraq.

My forecast was vindicated 100 per cent in an interview shown on Australian television last night (Thursday evening my time).

Here is a link to the interview:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2004/s1235130.htm

And here is the relevant excerpt:

"In voter surveys taken as people left their polling places across America, a surprising fact emerged.

A large percentage of voters ranked moral issues as high in order of importance to them as terrorism, the war in Iraq and the economy.

And even more significant, of those who ranked moral issues as their number one concern, 80 per cent voted for George Bush.

And bear this in mind, it's estimated 25 per cent of the electorate are white Evangelicals or born again Christians.

This mobilisation of new voters from that group has emerged as one of the deciding factors in the campaign.

As President Bush himself acknowledged, the architect was his political guru Karl Rove.

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There is Very Little Difference .....

by olprof67 In reply to The fundamentalist factor ...

between the ravings of the most fanatical of the Religious Right and the rantings of the most fanatical Greens. Both claim that their self-justification overrides the rule of reason and the workings of a free market.

One is simply the antidote for the other.

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Ecology - Deflect and Deny

by Bucky Kaufman (MCSD) In reply to There is Very Little Diff ...

re:
between the ravings of the most fanatical of the Religious Right and the rantings of the most fanatical Greens.
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It's not the "Greens" who oppose Militant Christians - it's everybody who's not a Militant Christian that opposes them.

It's typical for Bush's followers to change the topic away from their radical televangelism toward *any* other topic - even ecology.

The fact is Militant Christians are as real of a problem here as they were in Talibani Afghanistan, or the Nazis in depression-era Germany.

100,000 dead Iraqis can attest to that.

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Nope

by olprof67 In reply to Ecology - Deflect and Den ...

The common sense of the center defeated your friends on Tuesday, just as it defeated the bigotry of Bob Dornan in Orange County in 1996.

(Note that the sensible Libertarian message of Congressman Dana Rohrabacher continues to score in a younger, less-white, less-wealthy portion of the same county).

And the bigotry of Oliver North in Virginia in 1994.

(Sensible centrist John Warner continues to serve).

And the lunacy of California's "Big Green" initiative the same year.

When your ideas can be marketed on a free-market basis to people who shoulder the responsibilities of a real career, they'll be ready to listen.

Otherwise, you were told what to do with your agenda on Tuesday.

Please exercise that function.

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Center?

by Bucky Kaufman (MCSD) In reply to Nope

re:
The common sense of the center defeated your friends on Tuesday, just as it defeated the bigotry of Bob Dornan in Orange County in 1996.
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That's an odd way to refer to Militant Religious extremists.

Meanwhile, 100,000 Iraqis are dead for no good reason. How many soccer stadiums would that fill?

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On Playing Defense

by olprof67 In reply to Center?

Dornan and North based their campaign on the prejudices of the established (and usually closed-minded) Reiligious Right.

And it wasn't enough...they were voted out.

At some point, too close a link to theocratic thinking becomes a liablity.

Faced with a choice between theocracy and collectivism, and no postive alternative, I will vote "for" no one, but "against" the candidate I perceive to be the greater threat.

Usually that's the Democrat....but not always.

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On Playing Defense

by olprof67 In reply to Center?

Dornan and North based their campaign on the prejudices of the established (and usually closed-minded) Reiligious Right.

And it wasn't enough...they were voted out.

At some point,too close a link to theocratic thinking becomes a liablity.

Faced with a choice between theocracy and collectivism, and no postive alternative, I will vote for no one, but against the candidate I perceive to be the greater threat.

Usually that's the Democrat....but not always.

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The view from one fundamentalist

by ProtiusX In reply to The fundamentalist factor ...

It is interesting to me that religious people regardless of their belief are considered by non-religious people as fundamentalists. Well for me I think that is a good descriptor. I am a Christian Fundamentalist but perhaps my position obscures my logic and reason. I do not consider myself violent and I definitely do not try to forcibly make everyone else a Christian. Nor do I or anyone I know advocate forcing our religion into the government. Christians want what every other religion wants in the US ? the freedom to practice our religious beliefs when ever and where ever we choose. This is what is guaranteed us in the constitution.
Regardless of acceptance the fact remains true that Laws by their very nature are legislated morality. We say that it is immoral to murder, or to steal and we make laws to that effect. Society et al (regardless of religious affiliation) has determined the sociological standard for hundreds of years and yet when one disagrees with the rest of society then it is the general populous who become ?ignorant? or ?blind? and the elite who become the ?enlightened? trend setters who will guide society into a brave new world.
More Somma anyone?

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Militant vs. Fundamentalist

by Bucky Kaufman (MCSD) In reply to The view from one fundame ...

re:
I am a Christian Fundamentalist but perhaps my position obscures my logic and reason.
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I think "extremist" or "militant" is more descriptive in your case.

You have expressed ZERO opposition to the Bush Regime's massive slaughter of Iraqis and the looting of their land.

You have, on the other hand, whole-heartedly advocated further killings, defended the lies about the war, and attacked people.

These *very* unChristian sentiments are certainly not "fundamentalist" values. They are, on the other hand, Militant and Extremist.

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Why do I get sucked into these things!

by ProtiusX In reply to Militant vs. Fundamentali ...

Ok Bucky ? Firstly I disagree with you on your numbers but we?ve covered that.
When have I ever ?whole-heartedly advocated further killings??
Please list (detailed and give sources) the lies about the war that I have supported.
I have attacked you in other posts this is true. You have degraded my country, my fellow Marines and my God. I think you deserve a little heat.
Perhaps you could look in the bible or the Torah and read what it says about war. I?ll give you a hint ? read about Joshua and Sampson. There are other examples but there?s as good a point to start.

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by Bucky Kaufman (MCSD) In reply to Why do I get sucked into ...

re:
Please list (detailed and give sources) the lies about the war that I have supported.
---- ---- ---- ----

Did you not get suckered into supporting the war because of the lies about ties to al Quaeda and lies about nuclear weapons? Yes, of course you did.

Do you continue to support the war against the People of Iraq, describing the freedom fighters as "terrorists"? Yes, of course you do.


re:
You have degraded my country, my fellow Marines and my God.
------ ------ ------ ------

No, I didn't. You think I did, but you're not very bright, and are wrong about it.

It is so utterly disgusting that you, an American, react in such a cowardly way - seeing everything as a threat, and wanting to attack everyone for threatening you.

Don't you know that it's your own sociopathic desire to be a victim that drives your thirst for Muslim blood?

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