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The Pope and the Catholic Church

By TheChas ·
Rather than risk corrupting Oz's positive thread in respect of Pope John Paul II, I am starting this thread for open comments on the teachings of Pope John Paul and the Catholic faith.

On sexuality:
Catholic teaching on sexuality provides that sexual relations are a gift from God to be shared between one man and one woman.
Further, sexual relations must not preclude the possibility of creating a child.

If one follows the teachings of the church, there is no need for birth control or abortion because one would only have sex with ones partner when a pregnancy would not cause a problem.

On Gay rights:
Pope John Paul was very forthright in the concept of love the sinner, hate the sin.
People and governments should not discriminate against Gay individuals.

However, homosexual intercourse is a sin.

The Catholic Church is very willing to accept anyone who is willing to repent and forsake their actions that could be considered sinful.

On medical research:
Artificial conception, embryonic stem cell research and cloning are considered to be inappropriate.

This is all to do with the teachings of the sanctity of the human body as a temple of the Lord.

As I do, the Catholic Church does not support the concept of the ends justifying the means.

Yes, there is potential good that might come from embryonic stem cell research. However, since life begins at conception, taking one life in attempt to save another is not right.

I am no theologian, nor am I as well versed in Catholic doctrine as I would desire. Still, I will come back from time to time and respond to those comments I can.


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same sex pairings are a sin?

by Jaqui In reply to The Pope and the Catholic ...

then why do same sex pairings occur even in animals, like eagles, wolves, all living creatures that mate for life?
after all, the core of the monotheistic religions is that only man can sin.
so the animals can't, they aren't capable of sinning. so if it's something they do it's not a sin.

(btw, I just love rattling cages by arguing against belief systems, to get people to actually think about them )

ps, eating the body of and drinking the blood of Christ in the sacriment is canibalism, by any legal definition it's ritual canibalism.


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Gay animals?

by Roger99a In reply to same sex pairings are a s ...

Animals also steal, kill and covet. Animals can't sin because they have no gods.

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Who says ?

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to Gay animals?

I've had several conversations with my dog, and while I'll admit canine afterlife has not yet come up as a topic, he did grasp the point that eating any more cupboard doors might end up with him investigating the possibility personally.
Can't be heaven if you can't have a dog.
Any one who thinks that's irreverant can discuss it with a large german shepherd whose big friends with me at the moment after a suitable bribe.

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Do animals have souls?

by TomSal In reply to Gay animals?

You guys/gals remember that debate? The ol' do animals have souls one. Some think they do, some think they don't. The ones that do think of course they go to heaven, etc. The ones that don't mostly think whatever an does is just because its an animal , it doesn't suffer consequences after it dies (like those of relgious faith believe -- heaven v. ****).

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Such are the teachings

by TheChas In reply to same sex pairings are a s ...

Nearly all of the teachings of the Catholic Church are based on biblical passages.

I don't have the depth of theological knowledge to delve into the basis of the teachings.

Animals do not have a soul, nor freedom of choice. One must have freedom of choice for ones actions to be considered a sin.

As to the Eucharist, we are doing as Christ commanded at The Last Supper.

The Eucharist is one of the differences between the Catholic and other Christian faiths.

Most Christian faiths hold the bread and wine as a symbol of the sacrifice Jesus Christ made to redeem our souls.

The Catholic Church teaches that the bread and wine are transformed into the body and blood of Christ. This is but one of the mysteries of faith.

I can't explain the transfiguration. I'm not even sure that I fully understand it myself.


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the "transformation"

by Jaqui In reply to Such are the teachings

makes it canibalism.

who says animals don't have sould.
if god created everything, then he would have given them the same as us, sould.
they do have free will.
( cats are an excellent example of this )
what they lack is the knowledge gained by eating the forbidden fuit. that of good an evil.
so no action they take can be a sin.
every action an animal does is good, as they are innocent, and are doing as god intended.
so, since they have same sex pairings and are doing as god intended, then same sex pairings are not a sin in the eyes of god.

animals can and do communicate. so you can't really say they cannot have intelligence.

dogs chose to become domesticated.
so did cows and horses

if they had not chosen so, then we would not hav them as domesticated animals, they would be like deer, bears, cougars, wolves.

that is free will.

most herbivores have partaken of the forbidden fruit ( apples ) so they must have gained the same knowledge we have. if they havene't then that whole thing about the garden and the fruit is a lie.
which makes the entire mono-theistic beleif structure a lie.
( after all if eating apples causes you to gain the knowledge of good and evil so become able to sin, then the animals are capable of it.
if they aren't capable then the apple story is nothing but a lie.
there was no eden.
there was no original sin
there was no creation
there is no one god

if the creation myth is true, then I have a question:
why do you ignore gods own words as laid out in genisis?
let there be light..... and the eve and the morn were the first day"

that means the day according to god, starts at high noon, not midnight.
so the date should be changing at noon, doing otherwise is denying the word and will of god.

"judge not others lest thee be judged thyself"
and be found lacking for thine own judgement

the entire bible as currently used is a translation of an interpretation of a vision.
everyone's understanding is based on someone else's interpretation.

written in greek, with hebrew wording.
( using greek alphabet to spell hebrew )
so translated from the hebrew to greek to latin to english.
( scholars, at the time the old testament was written down were writing using the greek alphabet )
what the entire torah, koran abd bible are besed on is an interpetation of an acid trip, translated and re-interpreted throughout recorded history. what was originally written?
no-one can answer, as the "Holy Roman Church" burned the original documents.
so some pope destroyed the bible and used his interpretation as the bible from that day hense.

all this is recorded historical facts.
just go to any library and start reading the historical texts.

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by jck In reply to the "transformation"

You crack me up, Jaqui

So since animals that eat herbs have lost their innocence and can't have same sex relationships without being sinful...does this mean that Mr. Green Jeans and Captain Kangaroo are doomed to **** for cohabitating with Dancing Moose?

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The bible can't be complete or accurate.

by tbragsda In reply to the "transformation"

A book gathered from many source writings in different languages, told for generations story-teller style, translated again to english, and some insist that that "God said 'blessed are the?'". No joke, even prominent, respected people insist that God spoke in English.

What was chosen, and what was left out was a choice of man. That seems to imply that it can't be ?complete? or directly the word of god in anyway.


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by Jaqui In reply to The bible can't be comple ...

exactly my point

since everything in it was put there by man, known to be fallible, how can it be the "word of god"
he didn't sit down and manually write every line.

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Bigger Issue

by TheChas In reply to that's

I do believe that the Bible is the "inspired word of God"!

However, there are 2 significant sources for potential errors to exits.

First, there is the limited breadth of man's knowledge and understanding of both the physical and emotional world at the time the Bible was written.

Then, there is the amount of meaning that must have been lost in translation.

I'm confident that the "core" message is sound and true to the Creator's intentions.

Even today, there are numerous "different" Bibles.

There are at least 4 major versions along with a large number of variations among the Protestant faiths.


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