Thinning down the herd.

are a traditional veggie to be served with turkey for an English Christmas. Most of my childhood memories have them boiled to death for about a half hour. We all hated them but felt that we had to have them.

On Boxing Day, December 26, the left-over sprouts (and there are usually a LOT) are chopped and mixed with mashed potato and then fried brown to give 'bubble and squeak'. This is surprisingly good and is eaten with cold turkey and pickles. In our family we only cook Sprouts for bubble, now.

Neil :)

Sorry about the off-topic post ruining your slim-line thread, Ropes, but I couldn't resist the nostalgia trip.

Human physiology is such that if you lose weight quickly such as with a crash diet with no exercise, the body switches to 'famine mode' and extracts energy by breaking down muscle tissue in preference to the energy stored in fat. Although this results in a weight loss, it is muscle tissue that burns calories so, with less of it, you put weight back on more quickly and find it more difficult to lose it next time.

This is a vicious circle unless you lose weight very slowly or keep up or increase your muscle mass by exercise whilst reducing calories.

Just my two joules worth...

Neil :)

But depending on the night, it sounds like a plan. With my boys, I need to plan things like that in advance though, and Wednesdays are Dart nights. B-)

Peer me when you get a time frame.

I could handle going to "hell in a hand basket"! :D

One of the things I've found useful for chucking the odd pound is to have a low carb/no carb supper. The rule that I've been told is "no carbs after five" so I just end up stir-frying some fresh veg, peppers, etc with chicken. It's not Atkins or anything - not even a diet - but just aims to to keep carb intake lower in the evening when I'm doing less. Seems to work for me.

:D

I reckoned that it was one thread we should keep from the usual off-topic bloat. Lean and mean, so to speak.

:D

Oh, what the hell...

According to my mother, you CAN, if you're some sort of barbarian, add some fried onion to the bubble before cooking. I'm a barbarian.

It should be fried in bacon fat.

http://www.opensourcefood.com/shared/images/recipe_files/thumbs/o-40c6525ad12d515aa8a26d2635ba4f44tommy_bubblesqueak.jpg

I'm not sure if I'll have dropped 8 lbs. or not. Tonight however I did grab a pair of jeans from my NoFarkingWay-do-they-fit pile just to see. I'll be dammed if I couldn't button 'em up with no problem. They were snug but not too bad to wear out into public. Tomorrow I'm going to go thru the entire pile.

When I made the NFW stack it was all jeans that I couldn't get zipped up and buttoned and here I've got at least one pair that fits again. Might not be a big deal to anybody else but it's a big deal to me. Progress, no matter what the scale says.

How do I feel? Relieved more than anything else. What I've been doing is working. I just need to give it time and those damm 34" jeans will fit good too.

I feeeel good. nanananananana I knew that I would. nanananananana

I lived in Michigan for many years, from 6th grade til I joined the Marine Corps at the age of 24.

Ok, there was about a year and a half when I lived in Roanoke and Daytona Beach, but other than that, I lived in Michigan the whole time.

I eat the same way as I was patterned to by the high protien diet, lots of fresh fruits and veggies and meat, numerous times a day.
snacks tend to be savouries not sweets.
But the protien powders, along with custards, puddings, yoghurt, sour cream, pies, most pastries don't stay down.
I wind up puking my guts out when I eat them.
[ Nope, not lactose intolerant, milk, butter, cheese don't bother my stomache. ]

Inkling,
The reason I was put on that diet, was hypoglycemia*, with a full day of testing in the lab to find out what was wrong. it cleared that up, and I'm healthy, just can't put weight on.

*hypoglycemia is the first stage in becoming diabetic. if nothing is done about it most people with it become diabetic.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but something like 85% of diabetics that he has treated are off insulin within weeks of eating in his prescribed manner.

It sounds like you are already following it for the most part, but it's interesting reading anyway.

since different items require different soil depths, watering levels, reading up can save you from the heartache of having half your efforts rot away in the ground.

Here, we have an ideal growing condition, we can almost literally just wave the seeds at the ground and have the crops spring up. [ wave at the ground means don't even plant any ;) ]

No donors available in this neck of the woods.

I know just a little bit about planning ahead. While working my way out of this morning's fog with a cup of coffee I realized that it's Wednesday and we have our weekly big night out tomorrow. I plan today for tomorrow because I know how I am. I'll eat a little bit more today than usual because I'll eat less tomorrow before we go out to keep from blowing my two-day calorie count all to hell. (If that makes sense) They have really good nutritious food at dinner so I'll "save myself" 'til then. I'm going to to eat a regular size meal tomorrow and see how that goes.

I'm glad that I don't have to deal with the holiday's at work this year. There was always
something and I always had a tendency to overeat. That's why I said that this is a rough time of the year to be on a diet. I'm not going to let it get to me this time.

I can't imagine how hard it must be on you. Sounds rough. People don't generally seem to be very understanding about others needs. The are several health reasons that people may be on restricted diets, high blood pressue, diabetes, hypoclycemia, weight loss and IBS to name a few. Who wants to go to a dinner to sit around and watch people shovel it in. I know I don't.

I'm not looking forward to Thanksgiving and Christmas with the in-laws. I have several obese in-laws and inevitably they're the ones who decide what everyone else is going to eat by what they bring. My wife is on a restricted sodium diet. If she doesn't KNOW how much salt is in something she won't eat it. Do you think her family will cook for her. Not likely to happen. Her brother-in-law had a multiple bypass operation and is healthy but he's started to pack on the pounds again. He doesn't eat healthily and his place is where we go. I'd just as soon all of us go to a restaurant. Eat then leave.

When we have our dinners I'll probably load up on the celery, carrot and pepper spears, have some green beans and an appropriate sized piece of turkey (Thanksgiving) and ham (Christmas).

The family get-togethers are so predictable I'm bored out of my mind just thinking about them. Everyone even sits in the same place every year for crying out loud. Damm. It would definitely help if I liked those people more but I just don't. All of them, pain in the @ss.

Ahhh yes. The wunnerful Holidays. Come on New Years. We stay home for New Years! :D

I've just been to another funeral of a friend who lost weight and stoped smoking under Medical Supervision. A week prior to his death he was given a [b]Clean Bill of Health[/b] by his quack and then had a massive heart attack and was dead before he hit the floor.

So much for being healthy he would have lived longer if he had of maintained his weight and continued smoking. :(

Similarly another fitness freak died yesterday while on his morning run seems that being healthy isn't all it's cracked up to be. Too many seem to be having heart attacks and dieing from health.

Col

but I've been told so many times that I don't have one...

Neil :D

Actually, you're dead right. If you don't keep the rest of your muscles going, it's going to affect your heart in the long term. However, the thing to remember is that exercise lowers blood pressure. Diets don't.

Some great advice in this thread... far better than most dedicated sites!

Drawing everything together and adding from my own experience it comes down to a few simple rules... and a few things things to remember.

Rule 1 - WALK. No excuses, just walk. Every day. As much as you can. Build up to it gradually if you are unfit but keep at it. If you are fit or getting fitter include more hills and/or leg weights if you like but just walk! A cheap heart monitor is great if you are not sure if you need to push harder or ease off a bit - but as a guide you want to get a little bit of a sweat on and be a little out of breath, not gasping! 2-3Mph should be fast enough depending on the terrain. I promise you will feel better, breath better, sleep better, have more energy, concetrate better and much more all for the price of a little shoe leather.

Rule 2 - See rule 1. What do you mean you don't have time? Make it. We are not talking hours here... lunch break, early morning, in the evening... it needs to become a habit and a normal part of your day. Take my word for it, after a few weeks you'll look foward to it whatever the weather.

Rule 3 - I wasn't joking about rule 1 & 2. Can't motivate yourself or need a reason to go for a walk? Go to the pound and get a dog. Seriously. You'll never regret getting a dog. Live in rented and can't have pets? No problem, go to the pound and walk their dogs for them!

Now the things to remember...

Real sustained weight loss only comes with a change in lifestyle. But that change need only be very subtle in all but the worse cases. Say you put on 40lb in the last 5 years - that is just 3 or 4 spoonfulls of sugar a day from zero weight gaint!

Consume more calories than use and you will put on weight. Use more calories than you consume and you will lose weight. No if or buts. That is fact. The upshot of that is you should eat a little less and exercise more.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking diet alone will work long term, it simply won't.

Avoid trans fats / hydrogenated fats like the plague. If you are male do not eat soy products.

Don't look for quick fixes, magic pills or fad diets. They are all bound to fail. The only way is to change your lifestyle to a more healthy one.

How long did it take you to put on the weight? 5? 10? 15 years maybe? Its not going to come off overnight now is it? Be patient... but don't worry you will start to feel better almost as soon as you start making those healthy choices, and looking better within weeks.

There is only one excercise that comes close to walking and thats swimming. If there is a pool nearby do some laps regularly if you can. It can get a bit dull though and it costs a bit. It really is good for you though. Actually sex and dancing are as good as swimming and walking so try and get down the club, dance the night away and have as much sex as possible. Who said exercise is boring?

Free weights are a good idea. Nothing heavy, just a couple of dumbells will do. Look to increase reps rather than weight for weight loss and fitness. Always warm up first!

Don't smoke, if you drink, drink in moderation. In fact - moderation in all things. No pigging out. Cept at Christmas of course.

Don't weigh yourself too often. Once a week max. Once a month better. Weigh yourself at the same time of day each time and in similar clothing.

Eat more fresh veg and fruit.

Try to cut out refined sugars.

Eat oily fish at least once a week.

Cut down on fats. When you do use fats/oils use olive oil and olive oil based products.

Cut down on the salt.

Don't skip breakfast.

Avoid empty calories.

Switch to wholegrain products for bread, cereal etc. If there is a white version and a brown version of a food, eat the brown.

Cut down on red meats, replace with poultry, fish, beans and pulses to get the proteins and that full feeling without the clogged arteries.

Best to avoid high fat dairy products, but not dairy altogther as it contains loads of stuff thats good for you.

Drink plenty of fluid - it doesnt have to be water, but not too much caffeine.

Take control of your weight and fitness. No one else can do it for you. Its your body and your life.

If it comes in a packet, its probably bad for you. Get in the habit of making your own meals from scratch. Home cooked stuff is cheaper, better for you and costs less. And there are a million and one things you can cook or prepare in under 10 minutes.

The TV will not get lonely without you. Neither will the couch. Don't feel sorry for them.

If you are over 40 or have any medical conditions consult a doctor before doing anything. If they tell you something it overrides everything else. They really do know best.

Unless you are really big 2lb a week is the MOST you should aim to lose. If you are 250lb+ you could perhaps lose 3lb a week for a little while but not for long. Much better to lose it slow. Half a pound to a pound a week would be just fine. Don't get disheartened if you put on a little or havn't lost any. Just keep making the right choices and it WILL come off in good time.

It is worth remembering that most weight loss sites, clubs, books, DVD's etc are often as not pushing an idea/theory/product etc in the hope of getting money out of you. On the other hand some are very good at motivating people to make a change. Try to see through the BS and see what they have to offer. If it goes against ANYTHING above its probably a waste of time and money.

Now if I missed or forgot anything... sorry!

Lost 14 Stone in a DAY, 14 Stone in a DAY! :-)

In all seriousness however you cause for self improvement is a worthy one. best of LUck with it!

The chemicals that are causing all of the stress, Soy Isoflavones, contain about 0.1% of the oestrogen-like activity of the normal human female's endogenous oestrogen so it isn't going to make much difference to most women - if any - unless they take ridiculous quantities of supplements. Some doctors have, apparently, warned that breast cancer may be promoted by soy products and this advice is despite the lower incidence of breast cancer in those races that generally use soy in their diet. I suppose that there's a certain chance that the Western habit of processing foods might lead to increased Isoflavone levels and so there might be some small effect from consuming large quantities of such products but there's no evidence that the moderate consumption of soy as an animal-products replacement has anything but a beneficial effect. In fact, Isoflavones block the chemical receptors to which oestrogen attaches and may help to reduce the effect of high oestrogen levels.

As for men, well, the research linking animal fat to heart disease and cancer are far stronger than those connecting soy to any health problems. Soy is chock full of flavonoids and other anti-oxidants so, if you are considering substituting soy for meat or milk, then soya is still better for you than any animal products. There's a report out there that shows that soy milk can help slow down male baldness.

Trust me in this, tofu isn't going to shrink your testicles! Replace meat - especially red meat - or dairy with soy equivalents and see if you lose weight and your cholesterol lowers! If it doesn't, or your bollocks drop off, then sue me.

Neil :)

p.s. If you're trying to become a dad, just wear looser underwear for a few weeks to keep your nuts cool. That's far better advice.

As you exercise, you build up muscle while burning off fat. Muscle weights more than fat, so you can trim down and actually go UP in weight.

205? I don't remember the last time I saw that. About 245, wearing a size 36". (would be less if my pe#1$ weren't always getting in the way.... :0 ) I am looking at getting back to 230.

The hard thing is the part about remembering to eat on a schedule, not when you feel hungry. Another big part of avoiding the famine effect.

I love talking about food. I have never heard of sandwich cake unless we know it by a different name.

Neil :p

So you think estrogen like chemicals are good for a bloke?

I'd rather skip em thanks.

And yes I know that study is a prelim. Answer me this - who funded the other studies? To be honest I have no idea, but I bet it will come round one way or another to the US soy marketing dollars.

And no I don't read the sun and didn't even blink at the MMR bs. This one on the other hand makes me think twice. I'd rather keep my estrogen levels where my body wants them rather than where Monsanto deems is safe.

Truthfully, I think that you have a lack of understanding of the nature and effect of soya isoflavones and how they fit into a larger picture.

Taken in the context of this thread, that is "lardies trying to reduce weight", we have the starting point of someone with too much fat tissue which, in men, produces oestrogen. Taking soya products as replacement for dairy has the following effects; firstly, the lower calorific values of comparable soya foods leads to a decrease in weight with a concomitant decrease in the quantity of body fat and thereby a decrease in the oestrogen produced by this fat. Secondly, Isoflavones have around one thousandth of the hormonal activity of oestrogen yet bind to oestrogen receptors which has the effect of displacing some of the "real" oestrogen and mitigating its effects.

Neil :)

To put it simply - again: if you are male and fat, replace some of your red meat and dairy with soya and if your t:ts get bigger, sue me.

If you are male and thin (I'm not thin), do and say what you want. It's not relevant to this thread.

People can only affect your mood if you allow it. I refuse to give other people that level of control over me.

I mistook your post to be more about the health benefits (or lack of) of the food that will be presented at the festivities, than the event it's self.

I do not miss ANY of the ex's family. [i] (because I take time and aim carefully! ;\ )[/i] gathering with her family would be horrible for the boys and me.

Her sister once got made at me for Christmas because she went out and bought the EXACT "gift" her little angel NEEDED to have, and wanted me to give her the money for it and have it be from us. "Sorry, I am not paying for you to give your kids gifts." Yeah, I am a real jerk..... ;\

ok, enough of that! :p

A question the over weight dude would have to ask, what impact does being over weight have on the sperm count?

It has been shown that being over weight can contribute to ID as well. Does it matter if your shooting blanks if the gun won't shoot straight? :0

At ThingOne's request, we put tofu in our stir-fry. haven't incorporated it into anything else yet.

You'll only get to that stage if you have high oestrogen during puberty and the years afterwards. Usually, testosterone suppresses the formation of the male breast's finer structures so beer-t:ts are the closest we get. More information than you needed?

As for the question of reduction of sperm count in the fat, as far as I can see from a preliminary search, yes it does.

So, if you're fat then you've probably got man-boobs AND a reduced sperm count but it's probably OK because having the former means you've less chance of using the latter.

Go with the soya... Not too much, mind; but a bit of beancurd in the stir-fry doesn't seem to have stopped the Chinese from breeding pretty well.

Neil :D

Peer for detail. I don't want to drive Neil up a tree!

It's really, really, good!

I currently weigh 386 lbs and was 225 lbs when I start IT. I am now pre-diabetic. I challenge you to loose weight. I am going to be posting pictures of me on our companies website so as to make sure that people know that we have to stay in shape.

- Chris Donnelly
President
64bithost.com

All the fresh fruit and veg is good with bananas, black grapes and dates being very highly rated. Cranberries are supposed to be really good for the bladder. Watch out for the con of "superfoods" when some weird berry is touted as the latest wizzo super-source. It's usually bollocks.

There are some surprising sources. Coffee is really high in antioxidants and most people could get more from drinking coffee than most other sources. Black tea, not green, is the second most likely source for antioxidants but green tea is good, too. REAL chocolate is good and is full of all sorts of odd chemicals that seem to have beneficial effects. That's either 70%+ cocoa solids chocolate or pure cocoa powder which is pure chocolate without a lot of the fat.

Enjoy. :D

I see that Neil has posted some good information already.

I find that I don't get enough just from diet. I take the capsules- available from just about anywhere- every morning with a B Complex. I do tend to feel better when I do.

I have also had good luck with Golden Seal but find that I don't have the time anymore to make the capsules and I haven't found it pre-made.

* Allium sulphur compounds - leeks, onions and garlic.
* Anthocyanins - aubergine (eggplant to you), red grapes and berries.
* Beta-carotene - pumpkin, mangoes, apricots, carrots, spinach and parsley.
* Catechins - red wine and tea.
* Copper - seafood, lean meat, milk and nuts.
* Cryptoxanthins - red capsicum, pumpkin and mangoes.
* Flavonoids - tea, especiaslly green tea, citrus fruits, red wine, onion and apples.
* Indoles - broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower.
* Isoflavonoids - soy, lentils, peas and milk.
* Lignans - sesame seeds, bran, whole grains and vegetables.
* Lutein - leafy greens like spinach, and corn.
* Lycopene - tomatoes, pink grapefruit and watermelon.
* Manganese - seafood, lean meat, milk and nuts.
* Polyphenols - thyme and oregano.
* Selenium - seafood, offal, lean meat and whole grains.
* Vitamin C - oranges, blackcurrants, kiwi fruit, mangoes, broccoli, spinach, capsicum and strawberries.
* Vitamin E - vegetable oils (such as wheatgerm oil), avocados, nuts, seeds and whole grains.
* Zinc - seafood, lean meat, milk and nuts.
* Zoochemicals - red meat, offal and fish. Also derived from the plants animals eat.

Interesting that the isoflavonoids in soya that caused the disagreement elsewhere in this thread are also present in peas, lentils and milk...

The general idea seems to be that getting them from your diet is the best way. Supplements seem to lack so of the trace chemicals that can have an effect on the absorption and efficacy of the "real" stuff.

Neil :D

Stuff this health lark. I'm going out tonight for a couple of Cobra beers, lamb jalfrezi, naan and rice! Wall-to-wall animal fat and carbohydrate with the only healthy stuff in the chilis.

He said that there are some nutrients from fruits and vegetables that have never seen the inside of a nutrient bottle.

I'm down to three cups of coffee/day now. The first one's the important one, the rest are just because I like the taste. I may cut out that third cup but I doubt it. I don't intend to replace fruits & veggies with coffee. That'd be kind of stoopid.

I've been eating so healthily lately my body is probably wondering WTF!

Have to keep some bad habits I think. I still smoke. Still like it. I am NOT even going to try quitting smoking while reducing weight either. Not going to happen, in case anyone's wondering.

"In any case, our dietary decisions should not be based on the dining habits of flies."
Too true.

I'm sticking with butter, trying to avoid the hydrogenated oils. I've always liked butter. I have to ask myself, "why not have it?"

you could DRINK it and it doesn't change the absorbsion as it passes right through your system. (based on talking to medical "professionals" such as Doctors and pharmacists).

As for flies, I think if even a fly won't eat it, there has to be a reason.

Myth or not, I still use butter in my house.

I just weighed myself and I weighed 198. That's a 13 pound drop since 9-25-07. I was looking for an 8 pound drop as that would've been healthier but it is what it is. My planning has been below my daily caloric "goals" on purpose. I wanted to see some kind of loss on my scale. I guess I did that.

A little over eight weeks to my goal of 180. I can do it. I should eat more than I have been to keep my weight loss around 2 pounds per week.

I feel good. Not weak or anything. Two days ago I did more exercise than I've done in two years. I got off of my butt to just do it due to this discussion.

I can't believe it. Thirteen pounds in one month. Hmmm. I haven't weighed less than 200 for years. I think it's cool. That makes for an overall weight loss of 36 pounds. Seems like a lot.

Has anyone else discovered this? You can find it in most drug stores in the North West US.

Lo-carb chocolate .. yummy!

Les.

Talking of buffets, I make many runs to the food, take a small portion, eat that and if I still feel hungry, get back and get another portion. I'll get through 5 or 6 runs in a sitting.

What I cannot understand is why anyone would feel it necessary to overfill their plates with all sorts of food that one would not normally see mixed together in a meal.

Then, the thing that really gets my goat, is seeing a person who picked more than they could eat leave food on their plate. I mean for what reason would someone want to purposely waste (good) food? The only justification is if you find you don't like it. In that case you should sample it first if you are unsure.

Ok, rant over.

Les.

Personally, I was at 220 for about 6 years. Then about 2 years ago the doc told me that I had to do something. Since fast food was my main diet, I have learned quite a bit about cooking, and cannot bear the site of an empty fridge anymore.

It wasnt until last year when I decided to cut out2 pizza's a month and cut fast food almost entirely out of my diet. Also frozen foods were cut back as well (except hash browns and veggies). Salt, I dont put salt on anything anymore.
It seems odd that in 1 year I lost 11 pounds, down to 109 now. All from fast food, pizza, and salt.
Since I have less salt, I also have less desire for more water as well, so I drink less.

3 years ago I mostly cut out soft drinks. Mostly just flavored water, vitamin water, and regular bottled water.

It's also False Advertising and should be totally removed from the shelves.

If you are prepared to eat chocolate you want everything that comes with it and the more sugar the better!

[i]Edited to add[/i] Mr Fibber says 2 Hours [b]WOO[/b] for anyone who suggests that Sugar Free Chocolate is acceptable. :D

[i]For those who don't know about Red Dwarf WOO means it's [b]With Out Oxygen.[/b] This causes a massive loss of weight.[/i] :^0

Col

Old fashioned pre - computing type spamming
of course. Like all of us who spend a
minimum of 8 hours a day at our desks
getting enough exercise is a problem. I get
out every weekend helping my son deliver
papers and advertising material, the
original spam. There is a hardware option
some use to defeat this spam, a notice
fixed to their letter box, " No Junk
Mail ", " No Circulars ", or similar or the
software option of having a letter box so
full of spam you can't fit any more. It
forces me to walk for 90 minutes carrying
large amounts of spam enabling my son to
finish his deliveries in half the time. He
is so generous he lets me help him for
free, where as it would cost me to go to
the gym. He sees this as a win for both of
us