Time TO Pay The Piper

Now what was it Rabid dog, Raod kill, no that right Road Dog sorry but its off the page and I had to scroll up before, you go off you brain about any inuracies in the above posting just think on this. You now have some interisting Laws in the US relating to Internet traffic so I have been dileberatly vage so that this whole thread doesn't get pulled by whatever National Security Orginastion is responsible. I'm having too much fun to have it stopped by being acurate down to the very last letter or as in this case number. And before you go balistic about U reactors just remember that that piece of silicon based technology that you are currently using could not fuction without a U reactor to Dope the Silicon so in fact they are very usefull. I know you won't believe me so look it up on the internet how industrial silicon is prepared for use in any silicon based technology. As far as my gramma and spelling goes well I just don't care as there is nothing that you or anybody else can say that will adversly impact upon me so I guess that you'll just have to put up with my pathetic offerings and observations!

in the downfall of despots and the righting of wrongs.

My primary beef with them is how they define news. Since "news" is what's exciting and interesting at any particular moment, there is a natural proclivity to give air to what's wrong, ingnoring the vast majority of things that are right. This gives the impression that things are much worse than they are. They also walk a tightope between objectivity and sensationalism.

The very competitive 24 hour news cycle has given rise to lots of former military folks and former policy makers being given airtime to second guess the strategy and tactics being used. The public can be mislead into believing that the opinions and observations of these speakers are the official word on topics. This is not constructive, as the news becomes conflicted and the official word becomes muddied in the minds of the casual news consumer.

A simple guideline to use is; if a General is on T.V. in a suit, not a uniform, then be wary of his opinions as to how things should be going.

If those oppose to this war and our current President were to look at information coming from the other side as critically as they do with information coming from the current dministration, then a fairer assessment would result.

Unfortunately, in the minds of many media types, only stories critical to the current administration are considered "objective". The media's job is not to counter, but to observe.

do your google search and read up on the topics, I suggest that you master spellcheck. At least you might retain some credibility if you spell "nuclear" correctly on occasion.

As for your assertion that American Universities sell degrees, I wouldalso suggest that you have someone read the return policy on your degree to you so you can get a refund on yours. You were assuredly sold an inferior product.

If your analytical and debating skills are a product of the Australian University system, then you are most assuredly not representing it favorably.

Suffice it to say, your debating style is to make an outrageous statement and when chalenged on veracity, you simply wave a highly suspect claim to expertise and throw out another outrageous claim or statement.

Quite succinctly, your postings are generally a disorganized, shallow, and baseless series of indefensible drivel.

I stand by my assertion that you are here to satisfy some deep rooted pathological need for conflict.

that one about the gunshots sounds and the cops. I look forward to the early publication of your memoirs which will be titled: "The Misadventures of Luckless Colin."

Man, haven't you read your Bible? In all seriousness the way the war is developing is much closer to an Armageddon scenario than a World War.

But then, who knows. Even a world war starts with a single country invading another country.

Anyhow,one thing's for sure. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

you simply fail to agree or disagree with it (conveniently?). You sidestep a QUESTION through platitude, counter questioning, or simple evasion by blanket statement.

Technicalities aside, I agree that "if it bleeds, it leads" is a response to theappetites of news consumers. Aberrations, shocking events, and outright alarming events provide the hook for audience. There is no simple answer. To alter circumstance would require a large scale shift in news consumption driven by a fundamental change in what interests us. A highly unlikely circumstance in light of basic human nature.

I see hope in the embedded Journalists. I have noticed a marked change in attitudes of the Journalists toward the military, their mission, and their hardships. I see a newfound respect and deference that has been sorely lacking.

These Journalists are the Editors of tomorrow. One day they will be making the decisions regarding what becomes front page news and what becomed file footage. I am optimistic that the military will be given a fairer representation in future events.

Now if there were a way to force the peaceniks of the world to watch 12 hours of interviews with Saddam's victims detailing their life under his rule..... The road to liberation of other peoples under despotic rule would be somewhat smoother.

Ya got me...

In Australia because I'd have you loocked up for offering Medical opinions without having the necessary qualifactions or being a registered Medical Practitioner. And I'm not typical of what come out of our Universities as I'm not all that interestedin money for the sake of having it I prefer to get what I'm worth and don't have some deluded idea that I'm an expert who knows it all.

As far as mastering a spell check goes well I can actually but I prefer to see you pathetic responces to what I type in and my credibilty isn't in question like most uneducated people who firmly believe that the Government does the right thing and you blindly follow that same idea and don't look at the real point but get carried away with unimportant issusesas it saves you the trouble of actually using your brain for even a short time.

I wouldn't be surprised if you where one of the people who wanted to hang the reporters that exposed Nixon for the crock that he was, that's if you where out of nappies at the time.

Just as an after thought don't judge a book by its cover it just might came back and bite you on the arse in your ignorance.

When someone places more importance on the words rather than the intent they always lose their way and come up looking like the fool that they actually are.

Surscribe to other dissuccision groups in America and funnly enough I don't get the greif that I get here and I sometimes even manage in my own small way to actually help someone. What I do find interisting is the blind faith in your Government thatis expounded on this particular site as I don't see it on others in the US so I must be feeding some morbid courisitory as I keep looking at what's going on here.

Anywhere else it would be called learning but I'm begining to wonder now.

But on the bright side there are only a couple of you here who don't live on this planet all the rest have something constructive to say so that's probably why I keep returning but in all honesty I spend most of my time on other sites.

And ROAD DOG treating industrial Silicon is Called Doping in a U235 Reactor so I've saved you the time and effort of looking it up but then again I never for a moment thought that you would.

Colin:

I seem to recall that you mentioned that you had five PhDs.

Just to satisfy the curiosity of those who like to get their facts straight, could you tell us the areas the PhDs are in and what institute(s) of higher education you received them through?

I'd be curious to read you dissertations if they are non-classified.

Your concern about how Arab nations would accept a democratic government is a very good concern.

I suspect that they would like to have Saddam taken out but they abhor the possibility that the US would be able to establish a western style 'democratic' government. Such a government would be probably be friendly with Israel AND have an Islamic bias to it.

While a few of you lot want to jump up and down on me no one has made any coment on my claims that the treatment of returned solders is terrible.

Why is this?

Or are none of you reading that far down my postings?

Anyway Road Dog if you take the time to look I'm not the only one who puts up spelling mistakes so in all fariness why arn't you jumping on those who make spelling/gramma mistakes as well?

But seriously our troops get the raw end of the stick always we ask them to go and do our bidding or at least our Governments do and when they return they are ignored and treated like they don't exist. So far I haven't seen 1 Government accept that Agent Orange actually did do damage to our solders. There is no Gulf War Syndrome andgoing back further Post Tromatic Stress Syndrome didn't exist well at least not for the Korean conlfict/Police Action.

Have any of you got a coment on this?

Or are you just going to continue to go on with the Governments policies and treat oursolders like the disposable items that they currently sre?

Actually I have heard theories that games reduce violence as our need for it can be channelled into a harmless pursuit. Unfortunately, there are those unable to distinguish reality from fantasy, and they usually get all the focus and coverage.

I think both your and TomSal's comments are right on. As I know with previous operations, the other ingredient is time. We, the American public have to accept that some things may impact this that we do not know- possibly never will. Many things make more sense in retrospect after declassification.

Even history itself is subject to change over time time somewhat as it meets the needs of the era it is presently in. No one, as you have well pointed out, knows the whole story ever, but we can find a mix somewhere between this and ignorance that is acceptable IMO.

:)

"Cant we all just get along?" Hehehe Everyone's bickering like a couple of school children, the furs been flyin so much I could sworn I heard cat hissing.
I actually love to see this at times as I see everyone go at each other. It makes my day so much more fun, thank you all (especially Colin and Max for picking fights). I feel like we got a real verbal WWF or WWE now. In this corner weighing in at 125 standing in a puddle of pee with a snot bubble, the blunder from down under...Colin..Colin. And his challengers....well.. the entire TechRepublic discussion team full of pee and vinegar. This is a sactioned cage match battle royale for your viewing pleasure....so lets get ready to rumble!!(everyone pick a wrestling alias, I take "The Crusher")
What I wouldnt give to have us all meet in a room and be face to face with another. The visuals that I paint of how everyone looks based on their assertions makes my head spin at times, I guess fantasy vs reality is better for my amusement, but then again...hmmmm.

I used to scoff at the current younger generation's fascination with computer games until I watched a teenager manoeuvre a skateboard with amazing skill through a swiftly moving scenario. It then occurred to me that the games are actually constructive as they serve to hone one's concentration and response.

However, I have always wondered about certain nursery rhymes (Three Blind Mice et al), fairy tales and especially cartoons which are totally dependent on depictions of gross violence (likea particular cartoon character might be "killed" several times in a single cartoon.)

Is it possible do you think that these might sow the seeds of violence in very young, malleable minds who may not be able to distinguish that they are fantasy. Any takers?

and wondered if his life was endangered. I hadn't thought of money, but your comment is well taken.

Thanks for yet another of your totally objective postings.

As the only legitimately qualified and seasoned journalist apparently contributing to these discussions (the computer bit is a relatively recent addition to my "skills.") I think I deserve some credence.

And it is becoming glaringly obvious that the Australian media (remember that little third arm of the COW) is covering the war MUCH MORE OBJECTIVELY than whatever biased crap you are receiving in the USA.

Our TV coverage ONLY STATES WHAT IS HAPPENING. There is NO OPINION presented in the regular TV News broadcasts.

this is not his first offense. As you might recall, Arnett was the "correspondent" who was more than happy to spew the propaganda about the infamous "baby milk factory" incident in Gulf War I. This was among the most blatant propaganda efforts ever given serious air time by a network, the fledgeling CNN. It was later discounted when the participants were seen on other news services delivering the same "spontaneous" script in different languages and with the "baby milk factory" sign subtitled indifferent languages.

Arnett was also responsible for the infamous story detailing the use of VX gas against American defectors in Vietnam. This story and the fall out from its outright falsehood caused heads to roll. The story was later retracted.

This guy is either Saddam's biggest butt boy or he's so blinded by his hatred of the United States that he cannot help but suck up to any enemy of the US he can.

Maybe it was for money, Saddam also bought Scott Ritter for about 1/2 million. If he were bought, it better be for gigabucks and paid in advance. He's unemployed and has to find a way out of Baghdad past 250,000 troops he insulted. Maybe Osama Bin Laden needs a room mate (cave mate ?)and an on staff press agent.

I think You may be on to something. My children contray to my biography are pretty well adjusted. THey both play video games on a regular basis and I have yet to see them pulling wings off of flies or strapping the family pet to a rocket because of them.
However, my daughter had nightmares for a month after she saw a rendation of Billy Goat's Gruff when she was 4.

I really frown on cartoons these days, I think they are a little too cheesey and not all that message oriented anymore. Igrew up on the looney toons and scooby doo. While I can't honestly say they had no effect on me, I used to jump off a lot of things pretending to be Wile E Coyote, I am pretty well adjusted myself. I think a major problem with today's children is not that they are exposed to so much, but explained to so little. This couples nicely with a complete and total lack of discipline or the ability to discipline your children. Society today, in general, allows children to disrespect everything that I would get the strap for. So I agree that there is a far deeper problem than video games going on with our kids, that is why I encourage my kids to ask questions and answer everyone to the best of my ability. Then my son and I blow up terrorists on command and conqure generals =)

-duck

Man truth be told I am a duck. I was captured from the wild as a hatchling and taken to a remote island where I was....changed

My roommate was Spuds Mckenzie, and Morris the cat used to get stoned on cat nip down the hall. We were all part of an expiriment gone wrong to make cute wild animals into spokes people for crappy products. You my recognize me from my picture on duck tape brand duct tape, I was young then, no neck ring.
I would be even more famous if that stupid gecko would have just stayed home, or that damned taco bell chiuaua(sp?) would have gotten hit by a bus.

But hey I am always up for a fight... I shal be known as El-Muchacho the most feared duck of the great lakes region!!! Fear me for I am El-Muchacho!!!!!

-duck

I'm probably atypical as many don't watch our news as closely and as widely as I do. My dream office has a 3x5 feet plasma flat screen tv and SEVERAL smaller monitors tuned to different news sources, 24x7.

Even if the "opposing view" is represented, that doesn't indicate that the information presented is watched or assimilated by the bulk of our populace.

Make no mistake, when we screw up "over there" that story makes it into the rotation here. The incident where our Marines shot up thatbus at the checkpoint was covered heavily.

Even if our anchors and embedded reporters "cheerlead" on occasion, they will and do cover aspects of the war that are not going as well as expected. This happens daily even if the expectation is unjustified or set by those not central to the planning and execution of the campaign.

Every piece of the news that could be construed (or spun) as a failure on our part , is seized upon by the Iraqi propaganda machine and other highly subjective Arab news outlets. Our anti-war movement also gets routine press coverage, although it often backfires in the court of public opinion because their claims are so offensive and hysterical.

We even had a senior Congressman go so far as to accuse our forcesof deliberately targeting civilians.

Trust me when I say that we are getting the story, thank goodness it is being interpreted by the bulk of us (72% approval in recent polls) as the "good fight done well" that it is.

Really Road Dog you can do better than this load of rubbish.

But just to show off how good you really are can you PLEASE tell me how to fix the problem of the Spell Checker in Outlook Express not fuctioning on the XP Pro platform whenever you install SP1? We techinically challanged people would really like to know as currently M$ can't help but from your postings I'm sure you know the answer.

After all the people at the M$ Tech Support are only help desk people arn't they so you surelly would know the answer!

is huge.

In actuality, it is a mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D commonly used (and mixed) in the world today still. In fact it was used VERY widely in U.S. agriculture from the 1940's until 1970's when it was outlawed (My farming reletives stockpiled it at that time, referred to it as "the good stuff" and continued to use it until it was gone, and then occasionally found ways to get more). It was still legal for rice and orchard farming (not to mention beef rangeland etc.) with (I believe) a permit or something similar in the US until 1985.

Probably all of us have consumed many many products associated with this, although the worst hit with immediate problems are the people who handled a lot of it (veterans and farmers alike) who started showing up with dioxin poisoning.

Dioxin shouldn't really be in it, but it is easy to manufacter 2,4,5-T at a too high temperature and produce dioxin. Some of what was sent to Vietnam unfortunately was produced quickly, under pressure, or just irresponsibly depending on who you talk to and contained high levels. However, in the end, we find that FARMING internationally has contributed the largest populations of kids with the acne like rashes and later problems associated with dioxin poisoning. At any rate, "Agent Orange" should actually not even have dioxin in it. The manufacturers just weren't too good at keeping it out.

The point here is not to minimize those affected in wartime, but rather to point out, that when you remove the term "agent orange" and replace it with "a common agricultural herbicide mix" you suddenly lose the government conspiracy accolades and realize that it is a tragedy that we still have enviromental effects from in the US, and that the rest of the world is still compounding this problem through it's use.

Dioxin poisoning is unfortunately not a problem isolated in the Vietnam War, and must be dealt with as a national and inter

Really tork me off personally. When I was younger I tried to make a go of it as a musician and for extra bucks ran the door at an over 21 club where we played frequently. Because of this I knew how old everyone was (or had somehow got a state id to prove otherwise). One thing I noticed on several occasions were people that boisterously over a few drinks started claiming that they were Vietnam vets, but since they were born in the 60's, it was impossible. I have unfortunately met a few other Vietnam Vet imposters since. If I suspect this, I work it in to compare what years we were born etc. .....

All I can say about this, is that for some horrible reason, a certain segment of our society has to some extent highjacked Vietnam Veteran status and use it as a ploy for attention, money, whatever. This is a real disservice to those that ARE Vietnam Vets IMO. I can't emphasize that last sentence enough: "THIS IS A REAL DISSERVICE TO VIETNAM VETERNS!" ok.

who had dozens of stories about his adventures in 'nam. I make no pretense about heving participated in covert ops or the like, but I read lots and the History channel is a favorite at Casa de roaddog.

Well, I asked this guy in the break room in front of the fellas what MACV-SOG stood for. I knew beforehand that the SOG isn't Special Operations Group as was his answer. I pointed out that the SOG stood for Studies and Observations Group.

He went quiet and quit telling his war stories after that.

These clowns really chafe my ass too. I really enjoy shutting them down when I can.

If there is one thing in this world that will tork me completely in an instant it is a Been there Done that wannabe vet. I don't understand why people think it is cool or chic to do that either. I learned the difference when I laughed at a man I knew my whole life when he told me he could kill a man in 6 seconds. I was blacked out on the floor before I even knew what hit me. I would never ever think to discredit a vet of any war nor would it ever cross my mind to impersonate one. I think it is a travesty that people do that to begin with. Hell I have a hard enough time convincing my kids I am their father and not the house slave let alone trying to convince someone I actually could stand infront of someone with a gun and laugh. I try not to get annoyed too often, bad for the ticker, but I really really cringe when ppl claim they fought in ANY war when they were no where near a battle front. Why? because I have a higher modicum of respect for those that fought for me.

-duck

How strange it is that genuine Vietnam veterans were scorned on their return, while a younger generation has emerged thinking it "cool" to pretend to be Vets in order to impress people.

The only explanation which comes to mind is that so many American movies and TV drama series produced in the last two decades (approximately)
feature a hero who says: "When I was in 'Nam" etc.

So that while this younger generation weren't even born until after the war, and probably don't know about the abuse heaped on returning veterans, they perceive it as a macho persona to put on.

After 1/2 hour of brousing you came up with exactly what I said woy would absoulty nothing!

Show me where any attempt has been made to activelly try to descover what has affected these people all these links that you soo kindly provided all say the same thing we theat the symptioms and do absoulty nothing to find out why these came about. It's in the pages you listed.

Now go and do some real homework and find out exactly why these symptioms have occurred, there are none and I also draw your attention to the fact that many indivule ingredents of what is commonally known as Agent Orange have been withdrawn from sale in the US because they have known cancer links!

Stopp looking at me as one of the Officers who you had to answer to while in the marines or at NASA unlike quite a lot of socalled educated people I don't hide behind my education and I'm not the one constantly bringing it up so I can only surmise that to you I am all that you despise from your previous service.

I have read a few reports on GWS, as it interests me because of my older brother's presence in GWI.

The CDC, AMA, and VA documents detail a long and frustrating investigation into GWS. GWS is a very general term covering many different symptoms and effects, from birth defects to simple fatigue. The only defining universal characteristic is proximity to the Gulf during the conflict. Many Vets who never proceeded past the "line of departure" have exhibited symptoms. Folks who have GWS served in different capacities and were exposed to some, none, or many of the obvious suspected causes of GWS. This being the case, it is nearly impossible to isolate a cause or even a short list of causes that may or may not work in concert.

This all contributes to a muddy and ill defined attempt to find cause and effect.

I suspect that GWS will eventually be recategorized as several discrete syndromes linked to discrete factors and then tackled in parallel by different research teams.

Whatreally sucks for everybody is that the GWII participants are almost certainly being exposed to similar conditions and a new "outbreak" of GWS may soon be at hand. If there is a silver lining to this cloud, it may be a greater understanding of the epidemiology of all this.

In conclusion, lack of results doesn't indicate lack of effort. Greater minds than ours have been stymied by this. What all this boils down to is that there is no defined cause, so treatment is the only option.