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  • #2179944

    Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

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    by stargazerr ·

    My manager is a very very nice person but he becomes difficult at times.

    I am trying to buy an anti virus for the office but my manager is advising me and everyone else to use AVG free edition, which is strictly for home users. We aould get fined a thousand pounds a piece. His reason is that the other offices are using it. The other offices are in another country and are hidden behind a law that says they are ok as long as they are using laptops. But that law is not applicable in the UK.

    How do I make him understand??

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    • #3130527

      Ok, from the top…..

      by gadgetgirl ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      For starters, I think you’ll find that the free edition isn’t meant/won’t run on networks. That’s a major problem for you. You can’t possibly rely on your users to update on their own. (No chance!) Even if you go round yourself, and verbally tell them to do it, I guarantee they’ll just say yes, then leave it till they’ve finished what they’re doing, and then forget about it.

      Not having it automatically update on the network, is, IMHO about the equivalent of not having any AV on at all.

      Second, find the bit in the licencing that says that the particular law does not apply here, and show it to him. Right under his nose. Also, CYA – have a witness present when you show him this. If this law also states what the fines are, put that under his nose, too.

      Lastly (for now, this is all off the top of the head) get onto the FAST (Federation Against Software Theft) website. They’re the guys who strike fear in the hearts of government offices when they announce a visit. (Been there, done that) Make sure your boss knows who they are, what they can do, and what the likely fines are.

      Oh, and FYI – it’s not normally known, but persistant offenders have been known to have tax auditors pointed towards them by a certain “department”

      Hope this helps – as I said, this is straight from the brain, but I’ll keep thinking. If I come up with anything else, I’ll let you know.

      Best of Luck !

      GG

      • #3130521

        Thanx GG

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to Ok, from the top…..

        Good advice…I have tried most of it but I am going to try the new bits…

        I have never seen such a stubborn guy…He wont listen to me even when I put the actual figures (the fine he will need to pay) in front of him.

        If nothing works, I was just thinking of letting him go ahead and use AVG free. I am certainly not going to use it on my machine. And if he complains…I just plan to say “I said so” …

        • #3131096

          My AVG Home

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Thanx GG

          DOES update automatically, every time I boot

          (not that it’s a good idea for your company)

        • #3122382

          Still good to point out

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to My AVG Home

          because you want to make sure your not using invalid reasons in your arguement or you just blew all credibility for all other arguements.

          Never exadurate, never imbellish. Just the facts (ma’am).

        • #3122348

          And Facts it is !!!

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Still good to point out

          🙂 That is the foremost thing in my mind…Shouldn’t say anything that could be held against me in the future 🙂

        • #3131085

          Sometimes I let the Wookie win

          by illilli ·

          In reply to Thanx GG

          My boss once decided to super-micro-manage one of my projects. He was like, “OK, go print out a list of the documents by category.” “Now, go through them and manually look for any duplicates.” “Do this in Excel, so I can see it.” “Now, copy the duplicates over to another Excel sheet.” “Check them against what files are on the CDs.” On and on and on and on …

          I just gave him indignant look after indignant look as he patronized my intelligence. I was honestly livid by his inefficient methods and instructions! (seriously, I was very pissed)

          Well, I finally approached him and asked him why he was micro-managing this project. He explained to me that he liked to get paid just as much as I did. We were going through a slow period and he needed to work on something, so he was helping me.

          So, I just let him help. I followed his instructions to the last letter. Hey, I have to get paid too!

          Did I have a point here? Oh yeah…. Maybe your boss just doesn’t care. He probably doesn’t think the use of the software will ever be detected and believes he can worm out of it based on a technicality, probably through blaming someone else in the company like you. We don’t always know our manager’s intentions and they don’t always feel like sharing them with us. However, right or wrong, as long as the buck (or pound in this case) stops with them, so be it!

        • #3117181

          Join the Club…

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Sometimes I let the Wookie win

          We just have to sometimes keep our intelligence to one side and let the managers have their way….:D

        • #3123178

          I was in the same boat with you.

          by deception ·

          In reply to Sometimes I let the Wookie win

          After having managed the entire helpdesk and support service (which has been going on for half a year before I commenced with them) for the company for almost 2 years. Knowing each and every customers front to back. Recovered the organisation’s from bad reputation and the dodgie jobs they used to do.

          New management started, and new manager joined our team. He demanded reports which I’ve been writing for the past year and a half, I told him it’s already there but he got aggro’ at me and ordered me to do it in the format he wants. This basically diverted me from my main responsibilities. Took me half a day everyday for almost 3 weeks to complete it.

          Then he he kept asking me to add things to it, or if he changed his mind, he would order me to modify it.

          Reports after reports, he requested the same piece of information, everytime I would say “it’s already there, in the last report”. His failure to spend enough time to understand the structure of our current work and client has made me suffered greatly. After so many reports I said to him…..

          “Look, I don’t mean to offend you, but I think you haven’t been reading every paragraphs of my reports, the pieces of information you require and asked for have always been in the last 9 revisions of the reports”

          He then got really angry as if I was insulting his intelligence or something. So I gave him the final report an hour later and told him if he is not happy then he is very welcome to walk down to the other floors and promote someone to do my job.

          I regret not leaving the company at the time, I was later asked to install pirated software, lie to clients, secretly breaching the service level agreement, and overcharging customers.

          I did stand up for what I believed was right, then he sacked for some stupid reasons he made up.

        • #3122062

          Shady companies do shady schmutz!

          by swgoldwire2546 ·

          In reply to I was in the same boat with you.

          I would rather not work for that company if that company under management changes does some shady deeds. Perhaps that manager is doing it illegally for money.

          Just a brief thought, that is all.

          -swg

        • #3121969

          Just as well you’re out . . .

          by real aus tech ·

          In reply to I was in the same boat with you.

          Because that company is clearly heading for trouble, very much big time! Sooner or later (and probably much sooner), they will get caught breaking the law, and then the sh** will well and truly hit the fan. So good luck in whatever new job you have

        • #3122385

          Use your email

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Thanx GG

          and keep HARD COPIES of all emails.

          Make sure to always “Reply with history” so it is clear to anyone what is being said all the way through.

          State clearly that this is illegal and you feel uncomfortable being told to act like a criminal and will need a lock on the drawer of your desk if you feel that others that you work with ARE criminals.

          Show the advantages of the support and features for the paid version.

          He is just trying to save a penny, and will spend a dollar to do it.

        • #3122353

          A Pound actually !!!

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Use your email

          Hmmm….I never thought about replying with history…I usually delete text before replying to the email (to keep it neat and clean).

          In this case, I guess I will just have to stop being so neat 😀 ..Thanx for the tip jd.

        • #3122273

          I rarely clear it

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to A Pound actually !!!

          because if someone has many things going on in their day, and all of a sudden get an email from me saying “yes, sounds good”, they are going to have no idea what I am babbling about.

          By leaving the history intact, it is easy for them to see what I am replying too.

          When it comes to a cya situation like this, it is twice as important to have all of that information together.

          Good luck with this.

          Neatness is WAY over rated anyways.

        • #3123816

          chuckle

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to I rarely clear it

          Yeah … my granny is the cause of this she is super clean and i have been living wit her for the past $ months 😀

        • #3123737

          In that case

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to chuckle

          come to my house! I need a neat freak to room with me for about a month! ;\ I will do all the cooking! (you do like steak, right?)

        • #3123651

          Unfortunately !!!

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to chuckle

          I am another one of those freaks …. I am a veggie 😀 ….

        • #3123649

          oh, your one of THEM?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to chuckle

          Oh well, probably wouldn’t have had the strength to push the vacume around anyways….. :O [i](did I say that out loud?)[/i]

          So are you a health nut, someone that doesn’t like the taste, or a “love animals, not eat them” kind of person?

        • #3123645

          hmm…..

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to chuckle

          I want to be a health nut…but I am too lazy….

          Its a love animals thing….I got into a major argument with a colleugue the other day 😀 Something about molars and premolars (teeth)

        • #3122946

          Easier

          by attackcomputerwhiz ·

          In reply to Use your email

          If you can (preferably in a personal file form from your mail client) save the mail on a thumb drive. That way you can secure your files off the server. I do that and there have been occassions where I had to dig back four or five years to find a message that covered my butt. It’s worth the little extra effort and you don’t have to search through stacks of paper. There are way too many people jockeying for position out there not to CYA anyway you can!

        • #3122940

          Yep done that….

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Easier

          Email can be a pain to search through…so i have already backed these messages up..

          ]:)

        • #3122972

          Get it in writing

          by mary.shaw ·

          In reply to Thanx GG

          Before you let him go ahead and use AVG free, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!!! You may have to be very subtle, get him to send you a memo, save any correspondence referring to this issue. If he’s that stubborn and is of the opinion that honesty doesn’t count, you can bet that when it doesn’t work he’s going to pin the whole thing on you and say that he was against it all along. “It’s harder to forgive someone for being right than for being wrong.” This WILL happen, count on it, so get it in print.

      • #3127771

        Good start..

        by repub749 ·

        In reply to Ok, from the top…..

        GG, you got it nailed, except for the paper trail.

        Email them often. I know I’m kinda paranoid about stuff like this, but witnesses can be very forgetful.

        I understand what you’re going through, though. I worked for a company that was running their entire operation off of a handful of Office copies – and it weren’t the OfficeStar variety. I tried to work with them for months, even got a VAR to try to broker with them, but they never moved. So when I quit, I just let the VAR know I was leavin…

    • #3130517

      You sure got some dumb managers over there!

      by dc guy ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      The complaints we hear about managers in the U.K. are enough to make us feel fortunate that our own aren’t quite as bad as we thought they were.

      I can’t even imagine a manager in the U.S. in a company of any size suggesting that and getting away with it.

      The way you handle it depends on your own perception of risk management. If you simply follow your manager’s orders, what kind and how much trouble will you be in? Versus: if you challenge him, what kind and how much trouble will you be in then?

      Over here, depending on which state’s laws you’re subject to, you MIGHT not be prosecuted if the software vendor found out. Courts in many jurisdictons are sympathetic to workers’ needs to do what they’re told in order to feed their families.

      So on with the confrontation option. Most impersonal, most likely to resolve the problem, most likely to make the manager steaming mad: Tell your company’s legal counsel about this. Once they know about it they have no choice but to act because they will be held responsible.

      Almost as bad for you but not quite as likely to solve the problem: Tell your manager’s boss. He may be incompetent, he may agree with your boss, he may tell your boss, he may not appreciate people breaking the chain of command, the list of less-than-optimum outcomes is quite long.

      Most bureaucratic: Write a memo to somebody. Your boss, his boss, the company president, the corporate attorney (or do you call them solicitors?), your HR (personnel) department. Say that since you’re a mere peon you don’t presume to be able to interpret the fine print on software shrink-wrap packages, but you’re awfully worried that the company could be on the verge of a terrible mistake. Say that you’ll obey your manager’s orders because you trust him to do the right thing, yet this issue might be worth review by someone trained in the law. No one will really be fooled by your language, but by putting this in writing you have evidence that at least you thought about what you were doing and asked for help. It will put your boss in the uncomfortable position of knowing that your memo is on record and he won’t be able to easily weasel out of an accusation. He still won’t be happy with you, but in some cases this paper trail could protect you from the worst of his wrath.

      The obvious: Talk to your manager. I assume you’ve already tried that, to no avail. Explained to him what you’ve explained to us. That his reasoning is faulty and that he could be subjecting you all to the possibility of a crippling fine. That you all love him but nobody loves anybody THAT much.

      It might help to get a couple of other employees scared witless about this so he’d hear it from more than one person. Especially if one of them is so scared that HE would talk to the boss instead of you having to do it. ^_^

      • #3130501

        I like That

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to You sure got some dumb managers over there!

        I am certainly going to put this in writing. Better yet I can write to our top techie, who also happens to be a partner with the company 😀 (why didnt I think of that before??)

        And yes you are right, I have talked to my manager about this but to no avail. Told the legal advisor…he told me sit and read AVG’s terms and conditions…:@ … I told him “That’s your job.I have read them and I know we will be fined, thats why I am making such a fuss…” …. Honestly !!!

    • #3132036

      Details

      by johanv ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Without knowing exactly how your site is structured (in terms of hardware/users/etc.) I can only give some vague insight on how I would approach the matter.
      Write a detailed report outlining why a certain solution is required. Detail what would be achieved with a solution. Basically, prepare a business case and distribute that to all the relevant stakeholders. Hope that makes sense to you (sometimes I confuse myself ;-))

    • #3132015

      Show him

      by jck ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Present the facts to him in an email. Both the statement that the software is not free for commercial and/or government use, then show him the legal consequences of his approval of such implementation.

      Then in the email ask for a directive from him of what to do. Make sure he states what his order is to you.

      Then, you have these options:

      – Do what he says and keep that document at home where he orders you to do it…if you don’t think you’ll go to jail for it…or won’t lose your job.

      – Take that order in print to his superior, if you think that they’ll back you all the way after going over his head for telling you to commit a criminal act at their company.

      – Refuse to do it, even if he orders it and risk termination for insubordination. However, you’ll have documentation that you were being told to commit a crime and would probably have basis for tort (I don’t know English law, but I assume it’s fairly close to American) for improper termination.

      That’s the best I can think to do…cover your own arse in the best way possible for your situation though.

      Good luck

    • #3131975

      hmm…Yeah my ass is the most important

      by stargazerr ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      😀 Thanks mates…I am trying everything….

      Will let you know which solution works….

      Damn these managers

    • #3131957

      Write him a respectful lettter

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      .
      Outline, in writing, the reasons a company should always comply to software licensing agreements. Explain how the long term best-interests of the company are compromised by violating the agreements, and you strongly encourage compliance.

      Short of refusing to install unlicensed software or going over his head, that’s about the best you can do.

      • #3132303

        hmmmm

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to Write him a respectful lettter

        I had a very respectful chat with him…but he isnt ready to listen…

        I even tried getting our top techie and partner to say yes…(he agreed, of course, him being a techie). M manager said that he can think about it now since the top techie has said so…but he is taking ages in thinking…All the sales people are pestering me because they dont have a decent anti virus..and I dont really want to tell them to use AVG Free because then it will be harder to convert them

        • #3132290

          Take the pestering

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to hmmmm

          and keep the soft line. By not letting them use AVG free, you’re keeping the ball in your court. You’re right, you’d never convert them.

          But keep a note of who is pestering, why and how many. This is your evidence for getting a better AV than the one you’re currently using. (Regardless of which one)

          As for persuasion – if in doubt, a brick over the head normally helps a lot, I find, should the prospect of fines have no effect…..

          I assume he’ll do “the usual” – if he agrees not to use the free one, he’ll then take ages to decide what to do next….which is where your pester list comes in handy in confirming that you need a rapid solution – – which you will have already researched, costed and sorted out well in advance of being asked, won’t you ????!!!!

          GG

        • #3132286

          Yep !!!

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Take the pestering

          I have it all sorted out…What I want to buy, why I wnat to buy it and how much its going to cost….

          Just need him to say yes….maybe if I hypnotize him…??? what do u think ?? :p

        • #3132284

          No, dear

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to Yep !!!

          bricks/sledgehammers work far faster, they get a more rapid response……

          😀

          GG

        • #3132276

          Best advice !!!

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to No, dear

          I am going out to buy a sledgehammer. Anyone else need one ??

        • #3132249

          I’d like one

          by jck ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          I don’t want to use it on my manager though. ]:)

        • #3132245

          One? One?!

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          now, if you were talking about one GROSS, then yes, please….

          it’s Friday. Again. Those of you who know me already know I get user-itis on a Friday….yup, yet another information incident…why Fridays?

          GG

        • #3132238

          well…

          by jck ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          I would expect anyone good with hands-on IT to give me a good sledgehammer…

          And, believe me…all I need is one sledgehammer to leave a mark 🙂

        • #3132231

          Ok so thats two !!!

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          And its multi purpose guys…You dont necessarily have to use it on your manager 😀 .

        • #3132226

          that’ll be another gross for me then….

          by gadgetgirl ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          providing I can use them on HOB, IF, 2 idiotic neighbours, bus drivers, and various other car drivers on my work route…..

          So, that’s 2 gross, plus 1 for us_g, plus 1 for jck…. = 290! hey, 10 more and we can demand bulk discount!!

          😀

          GG

        • #3132210

          To cut down costs

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          I was thinking …. how about if, instead of a sledgehammer, I just chuck my computer at him?? Without a proper AV it wouldn’t come to any other use anyway….:D

          US

          P.S It will also help cut down the bulk number of sledgehammers we are going to order :p

        • #3130954

          it you’re handy with soldering and leafing metals

          by jck ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          you can always apply the voltage through his keyboard via leafing the lettering.

          of course, the smell of burny manager might be hard to get rid of…

          back to your primal modes…quicker and more cost effective…

        • #3117176

          Love The Electricity Idea

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          Thats absolutely brilliant……I can make do with the burning manager smell….:D … would love to see his hair charred and standing out …

        • #3122445

          I’d give you more ideas…

          by jck ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          but, i’m afraid the FBI and Secret Service and CIA and DSS will start following me realizing little tricks I know.

          God, if they only knew what papers I wrote back in the days of 300 baud modems and 64k computers ]:)

          um…btw…I don’t endorse violence against anyone…at least, anyone who hasn’t pissed me off… ]:)

        • #3122401

          Dont worry, I dont either …

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          😀 Just having some good old fun …. but then the FBI is planning to do a lot of damage to us as well…

          They are planning to get back door access into our systems through various software vendores … Check this article out

          http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,48648,00.html

        • #3123602

          yeah

          by jck ·

          In reply to Best advice !!!

          thing is…just remember:

          Backdoors in software are like cockroaches. For everyone one you see, there’s 10 more you never knew about.

          I’m waiting for some 15 year old to accidentally find one someday and bring down half the world’s computers.

          There will be a class-action suit at that point…no matter what the EULA says.

        • #3123011

          Forward the pestering e-mails …

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to hmmmm

          … to your manager.

        • #3123010

          Like that …

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Forward the pestering e-mails …

          That one definately goes into my list of tactics

          (writes)

          1. Buy Sledgehammer
          2. Spike Keyboard
          3. Forward pestering emails

          ]:)

      • #3131090

        Think Max

        by dr dij ·

        In reply to Write him a respectful lettter

        will lend you his silver hammer maybe?

        • #3130972

          The Silver Hammer!

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Think Max

          .
          Now why didn’t I think of that?

          However, sometimes the “Silver Tongue Devil” approach might work better than the “Silver Hammer” approach.

    • #3130810

      AVG Free calls home…

      by billharr ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      AVG free supposedly will not update from a network folder (managed by the AVG Admin tools). This means all your users will be hitting the AVG update servers daily and AVG will see a block of update requests coming from AVG Free users at one IP address. Whatcha think they’re gonna think when they’re checking the log reports? Methinks your boss is pushin the risk right up to the edge on this decision. I’d just make sure you’ve got something in writing that shows you didn’t agree with this decision and makes it look like someone other than you did the installs. Good luck!

      • #3117182

        Yep

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to AVG Free calls home…

        First of all….sorry I was awya in wilderness for the weekend…so i couldn’t reply….

        I am making sure everything is documented and in writing…But I just want him to sya yes to buy a proper AV…Is that so difficult?? Ahh…Managers :p

      • #3123065

        AVG update interval

        by nevtxjustin9 ·

        In reply to AVG Free calls home…

        Instead of a fixed time each morning, you could set it to update after a computer restart in the morning to stagger the update requests. But then, there’s really no need to restart Windows (snicker).

    • #3123186

      Written order

      by mgfyo01 ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Something that worked retty well for me in the past :

      1. You show your boss the evidences about the fact using this software is illegal

      2. You tell him : I should not be penally responsible for what you order me to do, so please give me a written order to do so.

      Guess what will happen !

      • #3123172

        If it’s not in writing it’s not said

        by n.vanrijnberk ·

        In reply to Written order

        As this post stated:
        get the responsibilties clear in writing.
        get the riscs clear in writing: Chance and consequence/money
        Then you’ll get the picture clear who’s accepting the risc.

        I’m also frusstrated by managers who rule against our well stated advice/arguments.
        Keep the responsibilties for this decision clear for yourself, your manager and his superior.

      • #3123145

        I could try …

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to Written order

        But I bet he will think that I am insulting his intelligence or something ….

        ]:)

        • #3122009

          Insulting his intelligence

          by n.vanrijnberk ·

          In reply to I could try …

          He’s insulting your intelligence.
          You’re the specialist/geek.

          he should be intelligent enough to acknowledge that and to understand that you’re opninon is in the best interest of the company you both working dor.

        • #3121990

          Yeah

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Insulting his intelligence

          I am being Geeksploited !!!

          MANAGERS !!!

          ]:)

    • #3123176

      The buck stops with him

      by advancewithit ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      If push comes to shove and software auditors turn up at the office door, he will be the one facing legal action, not you. If he’s happy with the prospect of losing thousands of pounds or even facing prison, then that’s up to him. I don’t see why you should lose any sleep over it.

      You could always argue that AVG Free is a dire piece of AV software as well and could leave the business exposed to security threats.

      • #3123144

        Trouble is …

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to The buck stops with him

        He is already using AVG Free on his computer and he happens to think its brilliant …

        Another thing that really “HELPED” was that one of our techies in another country adviced him that AVG Free is ok. The reason this other techie can use AVG Free is that, in that particular country, they are hidden behind a law which says its ok if they use it on laptops in an office… but that doesnt work in the UK.

        ]:)

    • #3123131

      Reply To: Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      by ananthap ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Not just a simple fine. If AVG sues your company then the CEO gets dragged in. Maybe thats your selling point.

      End

    • #3123023

      Not your job to be right

      by too old for it ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      It’s only your job to make your manager look good to his superiors. (Right Maxwell?)

      Let’s face it, this guy didn’t become a software thieving bastard on his own. Some “IT is a cost – must cut costs” CxO budgeted him in that direction.

      AVG is a darn fine anti-virus, and will update on its own. I use it around the lab at a non-profit I work at when rehabbing donated PC’s until I see where they are actually going and can install a licensed copy NAV for the particular charitable use.

      AVG does sell network versions and so forth, and the only thing “preventing” me from wholesale use is the charitable license from Symantec.

      • #3123012

        I am planning on

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to Not your job to be right

        buying AVG Network edition.We dont have the file server set up yet, but I am going to do it sometime soon. Was busy setting it up for another office … AVG Network works without a network and can be upgraded to work on a network as well …

        It is the easiest fit.

        ]:)

    • #3122899

      Easy Out

      by leonard j rivera sr. ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Have a meeting, on record, with HR present and state your case simply, you refuse to break the law. You should have as much of this communicated via email for record keeping. Basically, email out the meeting request including the reason for the meeting, stick with the provable facts and stick to your guns.

      In the end, you can not be fired for refusing to break the law. You can sue the company simply for having a supiriour ask you to do so and you can sue for even more if you are fired for refusing to break the law.

      • #3121989

        Problem

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to Easy Out

        We dont have a HR…Its just 15 people working in this office …and everyone answers to the office manager..

        I am recording everything we discuss though….Record as in … Emails ..

        ]:)

    • #3122885

      Let him pay the fine.

      by judy62 ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Do you research and provide him with hard and fast proof that unless he is willing to put the correct antivirus software on to the network, then it is going to cost $XXX. Also if you can, let soemone else of authority know, document everything, so if it does come back top haunt you, you have evidence that you advised him of the risk.

      Good luck

    • #3122069

      Other alternatives. . .

      by swgoldwire2546 ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      That manager of yours should take into consideration of the laws of the land, particularly in the UK. You should reason with him regarding applicable laws and how it would affect business.

      He should also factor in the cost of setting up antivirus software legally. If that case scenario is not working for you, take your leave, only with tact and consent.

      -swg

      • #3121988

        Hmmm

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to Other alternatives. . .

        Yeah I am guessing this trouble is because he is not a UK national ..

        I think a sledgehammer is the best approach … do you want one?? To use on your manager?? 😉

        ]:)

    • #3121968

      Reply To: Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      by the admiral ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Sometimes blowing the whistle anonymously is not a bad thing…

    • #3123226

      Who does the money belong to?

      by tor24 ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Will this purchase diminish you or your manager’s annual bonus or something? Find the key to happiness. Sometimes folks get big bonuses for spending lots of money and making a mundane project appear WILDLY successful.

      • #3127724

        We are loads of offices

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to Who does the money belong to?

        Every office gets a monthly budget for their expenses and they have to stay within it ….

        But Good News .. I got him to say yes for a Server … None of other offices have one

        ]:)

    • #3128555

      A story of a sysadmin

      by ou jipi je ·

      In reply to Troublesome Managers….Need some advice guys !!!

      Long time ago, one of the “IT managers” suggested that _no antivirus software_ is required on backoffice servers as no one logs directly into them. When sysadmin explained the concept behind Microsoft vulerable services and available exploits the manager was looking at the wall, completely uninterested. It cost too much money, he said in the end. Sysadmin (pulling his hair out) returned to his desk and wrote the IT manager an e-mail starting along the lines of: In our conversation today I have understood that….and finishing with…is my understanding correct? BCC’d the CEO of the company. The shit of course hit the fan as IT Manager and CEO, while having no clue, entered the dicussion concerning network security. Soon it become clear that the suggestion came actually from the COO and not IT manager himself. They called the sysadmin in the office to recapp on some questions – The sysadmin answered something along the lines: If you want to make bad choices – you are bosses, it is _your_ call – and I will do what you request me to do. As long as _you_ accept the responsibility for the decisions you are taking and _I_ don’t have to carry the can when things go astray — I have no problem with that. When the word responsibility popped up, all three of them stepped back 20 metres and sysadmin got proper product for all the servers purchased two days later.

      Note that the incompetence of IT manager and COO was never ackowledged by the CEO in this story and none of them (including systadmin) suffered any consequences. It all just went away….

      • #3128543

        Gorgeous

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to A story of a sysadmin

        I love that story …

        Let me print out the words “Its your responsibilty” and stick it to my forehead when me and my manager talk about this next

        ]:)

      • #3127004

        Get him to sign a release

        by mostcs ·

        In reply to A story of a sysadmin

        This was along my thoughts. I would have him sign a paper that says you recommended against this and that he is ignoring your suggestion before you do any installs.

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