Unreasonable pressure? Or over protective parent?

if continued.

A kid that HATES what he is doing will rarely do well.

I think it is time to find out if he is actually getting "yelled at" or just marked down. If he DOES get yelled at, they that teacher needs to step out back for a few minutes to discuss this with your husband while you keep watch.

Many bright kids do GREAT, but don't test well or handle the time limits. I would TELL them to back off because he doesn't have the EMOTIONAL maturity to handle this, even if he does have the intellegence to do the work.

Needs to be led by the teacher, not pushed. If this teacher can't handle this, then a different teacher is called for. If he can handle the work, I wouldn't back him up.

At the same time, they DO have to remember his age and treat him accordingly.

Have you talked to the principle? They came to you to make this change, now they should respond to the situation that THEY created.

I had those same problems. My handwriting still sucks. The advantage I had was being in a split class of 2/3 where I could just switch activities without moving.

And I had a minor speech impediment. If it is any comfort, I took a year of speech therapy (paid for by the school board) and I speak just fine now -if not just a bit too long, and too precisely.

I would be very suprised if the teacher is actually yelling. I would think he is more sensitive to the pressure, and is being told to hurry up, or write neater.

There must be hadnwriting exercises you can do with him - I would think the teacher can investigate or recommend some resources. My grade 2 teacher worked with me during recess.

Put yourself in your kids shoes - you may have swelled his head, or maybe he did it himself, by getting put in the new class, and now work is much harder and he is expected to perform. I remember, its hard to go from a point where the work is just too easy to work, to a point where you have to actually concentrate.

Don't slash the tires.

James

My oldest child was first diagnosed as ADHD and put into remedial classes. After I pitched a stink, the school tested him for gifted and talented and they found that he was really smart! His hand writing stinks too. Anyway, when he found out that they wanted to move him into the "smart" classes, my kid lost it too. He actually tried to fail class so that we would not move him. Kids that young don't have the self esteem to stand up to everything that will be thrown at them when they move up. I made the decision to leave my child in the regular classes where he was comfortble and could shine. We still had lots of bunps in the road because he was definitely ADHD.

Do what is comfortable for your child. Maybe you can find some programs at a college or university where there are programs designed to stimulate your child's fantastic intellect. You are very fortunate to have such a gifted child.

There are so many different things that can be approached here. JD and James already gave good answers. I'd try to find out HOW exactly the teacher is reacting and pressuring your son. And discuss with the teacher, principal and your son's other teachers about how your son can be led through his struggles. Spec Ed does sometimes help with handwriting. Both my girls received help for it (they were in for reading mainly, but they had underdeveloped muscles too)

If it does turn out to be too much of a workload/pressure on your son, then you may need to explore other options other than having him in actual 3rd grade classes.

To touch on experience, my brother was tested with a genius IQ. At age 10 he entered high school, graduating at age 14. He graduated college at age 17. He's incredibly intelligent, but lacks greatly in the emotional aspects and in dealing with other people.
Myself, I was moved up to first grade early. But at 5th grade my mother decided to hold me back, due to my lack of emotional/social maturity. It was probably best for me. Even though I could handle the academics, the other aspects of life are important in creating a healthy being too.

similar myself in grade three, and my younger sister got bumped an entire year at the same time.

I was put into advanced grade 3 class, because of differences in school systems, so I was thrown into sections of learning that I didn't have the foundation for.
I would recommend that you look at pulling him back to be with his age-mates instead, as the lesson speed is better suited to his physical skills.
or, look at using something like sylvan learning centers, where they give one on one tutoring for students, be it because they are advanced or inhibited.

The school system itself is at fault, it's not designed for exceptional students. the pushing your son that happens in the school setting is more detrimental to him than beneficial.

I was burnt out in school, from being pushed to perform better than any other student in the class. I dropped out of school, because of burning out.

... to the teacher and to the principal. See what's going on in the classroom, and if he's actually getting yelled at, become the schools worst nightmare, even to the point of legal action.

However, if he's *not* being yelled at (which is probably the case), find out what they're trying to do, if anything, to assist him in being able to write both faster and better. If they're not doing anything specifically about his writing, ask them what they recommend. You may be surprised at the resources that most schools actually have to help students.

Also make sure that you speak to the school counselor (I'm assuming they have one, even part time) and let the counselor know what's going on. They can usually find a way to help and they're very good at getting the teachers to assist as well.

In the first grade my son had difficulty because he was ahead on math and reading. It took a teacher who actually cared to see that he needed to be moved up, but ONLY in those subjects. She kept him for everything else! It worked wonders. He's now a junior in high school pulling a 4.0 GPA and even though his writing isn't all that great, it's legible (and he's learned to type like a demon!).

First, the teach will not say, "Yep, I yelled at your child for handwriting and slow work." So I would not recommend telling the teacher that your kid is accusing them of yelling at him at first.

Teachers generally are very scheduled. Find out when the teacher usually yells and Pop in. Some schools will allow an unscheduled visit to observe by the parents. See what is going on yourself.

Then talk with the teacher in a nonaccusatory fashion. (Unless of course you witness the teacher yelling at the child.) It is usually a combination of the two. I would ask the teacher if they feel your child belongs at the third grade level. This will give you an idea of how the teacher approaches your child. If she say forceful absolutely not, I would believe your child. Unfortunately, many teachers will take it out on the child if they are told to do something they do not agree with.

If your child has some writing issues, ask the teacher to give the child the test orally until the handwriting issues can be resolved. Get this written into the IEP (Individual Education Plan). If you do not have a formal IEP, get one. Your child is "Gifted" and is therefore being taught under "Special Education" (not just for those with disabilities) and should have an IEP. If you are in the states then this is all covered under the IDEA act.

would probably be as bad in other ways for him as 'forcing' him to continue. Given he succeeds, he will presumably be in the same predicament next year ?
As far as I can see your son is being blamed for the teachers failing. I've seen 7 years old behave when shouted at, never seen one gain an increase in mathematical ability though. Once you've calmed down a bit and tempered your desire to punch his teacher in the head repeatedly, you've got to go in for a chat. Your kid's obviously feeling the pressure for whatever reason and at seven years old that's inexcusable. If you decide to pull him back, do it quickly and make sure he understands it's their fault not yours and definitely not his.

Hey. First they want to give him work to match his skills then they put unreasonable demands and punishment (yelling, scolding, or any other unflattering comments) when he only needs more time. That doesn't make sense. It seems that the teachers don't know how to treat someone with accelerated skills. Maybe the math teacher has his/her own issues with bright children. The math teacher may suffer an otherwise latent mental illness. IMO.

In any case this kind of treatment is likely to beat the love of learning out of any child. Teachers are a$$holes.

But I'm not bitter. Nope. Not me. And I don't have my own issues regarding teachers. Not a one. :D

If he is placed with others who are older, he will feel out of place emotionally and otherwise. But if you can place him with other gifted kids his own age, and with teachers who know how to deal with gifted children, his chances of both feeling good and doing well academically will be greatly improved. However, not many folks can afford schools for gifted children. Public school is simply designed around forcing kids into the median.

My teachers couldn't motivate me to study because it was boring and stale, yet I did very well in tests. Homework was my enemy and I treated it as such. I was harrassed daily by mindless jocks and their bimbo counterparts, simply for not fitting in. For some reason, I didn't base my self-esteem on their approval, so I was able to shake it off and keep going. I figured they were jerks, so why would I care what they think about me.

Anyway, my niece is one of the profoundly gifted children and her folks are sacrificing what they can to get her into a gifted school, where she is excelling. I really hope you can find a solution. If nothing else, at least contact a gifted school for advice on options available to you.

I really don't think any of us can get an accurate enough perspective to give you the right answer on this one. Some food for thought, perhaps, but not much else. I think the right answer can only be found within. You seem to be a pretty bright and understanding person, with a great sense of self, a great sense of humor, and probably a great sense for deciding what's right for you and your kids.

When it comes to raising and working with kids, there is no pat answer. And different kids might require a different approach. Personally, when faced with a situation in which I start to really feel the pain that my son (or my scouts) are experiencing, I don't try to shelter them from it, but rather help them learn to cope and deal with it. Life will be full of such things, and they're all opportunities to help a kid grow into a functioning adult who has learned to cope with such adversity.

Follow what your heart tells you, Mae. And I'm sure you'll make the right decision.

I have two sons, and they are ages 3 and 2. First I would like to say that you are very lucky for your son to be so bright. I think that he way to young for the teacher to fault him for his penmanship. The answer is the answer. In math class what does how neat you write your answer have anything to do with it. I beleive you should lay into that teacher. Your son has tremondous potential and if the teacher is worried about his writing and shes a math teacher then maybe she needs to be an English teacher.

Your son has many years left in school and plenty of time to pick up cleaner writing skills.

Just looking after your own, as all parents do. You're not going OTT on this one, believe me, you're just doing the job of being a parent.

First, you know I'm in the UK, so I really don't understand your grades etc., so I'm purely working on age here.

Second, by working on age alone it brings me straight to something. Is this teacher expecting your son to work at the same speed as the rest of the class? That's unfair. At 7, he hasn't had as much practice as the others at writing. He is not as co-ordinated (hand/eye) as his class peers. Also, from what you've said about his abilities it would show that his mind is working far faster than his hands, which he hasn't properly fathomed out yet. His mind is still communicating at speed, so his hand reactions are doing the same, making his writing unreadable; he has shown that he CAN slow this process, but to do so needs extra time to complete the test. Surely his teacher can see this? Why isn't the teacher allowing him extra time? The main problem here is lack of practice.

Secondly, remember he is 7 years old. Sorry, but at 7, I would never have let my daughter do 1.5hrs of homework. 30 minutes, ok, even 45. But, Mae, remember they're just kids. They learn so much just playing (including improving their co-ordination and motor skills) that they NEED time to play. It is natures' way of ensuring learning. This could be part of the stress that he's feeling; he's doing the same as some of us do here, in the adult world: working at work, and working at home, too. He could be starting to see homework as more of a punishment, than a strand of learning.

Third - talk to the teacher. If any teacher shouts at a child, it causes problems. I have found that teachers who DO shout at kids, don't often have kids themselves - they don't realise how hard it can be to get them back to school after the event. If they do have their own kids, they have problems controlling them; they think screaming at them will get the control back.

Just remember, though, Mae, there are two sides to every story. Don't go for the jugular, or the slashing of tyres, until you've heard both. (I know you know I'm not getting at your son when I say that - both teachers and 7 year olds are capable of stretching the truth)

You say he likes to colour and draw? And you want to help his fine motor skills? Ok, I have a prospective mini solution for you - Calligraphy. I (sorta) used it as physio for myself after the last broken hand and arm. It's all about control, but is quite artistic in its own way. Have a look at the topic, but if you decide you'd like him to try it, peer mail me first, and I can give you some pointers before you actually purchase anything.

Finally: get him out of the pressure zone. At this age, if he's getting stressed, it could put him off learning for life. I got this type of stress at 14, and through that, didn't go to college until my late 30's and had to put up with (mainly) dead-end jobs till then.

Make sure your son knows he can talk to you about this, and make sure the lines of communication are always open for him.

Good luck, Mae, and let us know how it goes.

Have a virtual support hug from me - you sound like you need one............:x

GG

Sit down and make a long list of pros vs cons
Staying in this grade vs going back?

And go with your gut in the end :).

When I was in kindergarten, I was moved into 1st grade. I was bored stiff that I could already read, write, count, and do math.

I vaguely remember being a bit scared...in first grade, I was surrounded by a bunch of humungus kids! EEK.. and I had a longer class schedule.

Over the years, I stayed in regular classes, and was usually helping the other kids out as the assignments went.

6th grade got me transferred to a special class for gifted kids- one of the kids was doing college algebra, the others were playing D&D (6th grade and writing it all!), heavier research and papers compared to 6th grades....

Sometimes I've regretted being in the gifted section. All due to social skills. My sister, who's an average person, had many many many more friends and boys compared to me! :P She knew how to talk to people and interest them...I'd go off about the 300pg book I just read, or the magic kingdom I had just built in the back yard.

I'm proud to be a geeky person, I'm glad my brain is the strength it is...but God Almighty, I'd just about give my left foot to get the social skills I need!

The hardest part here for your son will be to balance brains with social skills.

You may have to put him back in regular class, let him get the social skills, and challenge him OUTSIDE of school.
Like figure out a way to have him do more math.
More science.
More art.
More history.
More handwriting :)

This might mean you have to homeschool him a bit after school hours, or even add onto his chores.

Tickle his brain, keep him occupied, and make sure he learns good interaction skills.

Good luck

Cute

ps fine motor? give him a screwdriver and a dead alarm clock.

Mae, It does sound like he's under some stress. But from my experience, 7 year-olds break down easily and bounce back pretty quickly. I think all kids freak out about school occasionally. And most say they hate school at some point.

If the major stressor is taking the timed tests, maybe you can strike a deal with the teacher. I would lean towards keeping him in the class situation he's in now. I might get some "hard-a$$" flames for this, but IMO it's never too early to teach a kid that he should finish what he's started.

Going forward, you should consider not pushing him up in grades, but letting him settle in. School is a nice place for socializing, but it's absolutely not the only place where learning takes place. Since it's his reading and vocab scores that are through the roof, encourage him to read close to that level outside of school.

Take him on weekend trips with stealth educational benefits. I had my kids computing ERA's in their heads at Fenway Park. It was a fun game to them, but in reality, I was brainwashing them to be math nerd Red Sox fans.

If you decide that it is too much, then ease off. A childhood only happens once. An hour and a half of homework each night does sound like a lot for a 2nd/3rd grader.

BTW - my 12 year-old son still has bad handwriting. I used to be all over him about it until I saw the writing of the other boys in his class. I had always compared it to his sister's, which is as neat as a pin. Now, I just tell him to try to keep it straight and somewhat small. He'd take half a page to write a single sentence if he could.

First, the kid is only 7 years old. He has plenty of time later on to be enrolled in a gifted child program/school or to be put ahead to a higher grade. Let the kid be a kid for now.

Second, if any of those teachers really are yelling at or putting pressuring on your son just because he is underachieving academically, I urge you to make a trip to the nearest hardware store and buy a 4-foot long 2x4. Then, at your earliest convenience, drive over to the school and clobber those teachers across the back of the head with said 2x4. What the hell business does any teacher have in yelling at a 7-year old kid?

I've read all the other posts and there's a lot of wisdom in a lot of them.

Max, in particular, has it right. All children and all situations are different. None of us can do any better than offering you generalities. I agree with him...go with your own gut.

Your son is of above average intelligence and able to socialize reasonably well, despite only being 7 years old and in a situation that places him among children who are older and bigger than he is. That's great. The fact that he's in there and holding his own is way more than enough.

He has bad handwriting. Most 7-year olds do. In my day they taught penmanship, but not anymore. It's OK to teach a child that neatness counts, but it shouldn't be a major big deal in terms of evaluating their work product. I doubt, as do others herein, that your son's teacher is "yellling" at him...that's your son's perspective, and considering his age and the pressure he feels he's under every sharp word by the teacher he'll construe as yelling. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I think you have a larger problem...grandma and grandpa. The worst thing you can say to any child is "you have so much potential!". It sets the bar impossibly high, and the kid ultimately either feels like a failure for not measuring up or puts himself under enormous pressure so as not to disappoint the adults. Sounds to me like in your son's case it's the latter. If whichever grandparent can't respect your wishes, that you've made abundantly clear, to find another way to dote on your son then it's time to lower the boom on them, not your son or his teacher.

I do agree with others' sentiments that we as parents increasingly place far too much pressure on our kids, and allow our kids to place far too much pressure on themselves. It's OK to have unstructured time, to have only one after-school activity and no more, to stay at the same level as the rest of their age group no matter how smart they are. You ask how detrimental is the stress your son is feeling. How do you feel when you're stressed? You and I have lost the perspective on how it felt to be stressed as a 7-year old, nor is the stress we felt when we were 7 comparable to the stress your son is feeling. ALL stress is detrimental, and while a little bit of stress may be a good thing it needs to be controlled. I'd say you need to identify the source of the stress to be able to control it, and in this case I reallly believe the stress is coming not from the teacher but from the grandparents and your son himself.

You and your son's father need to look inward to figure out how much you're both enabling this to happen. You're the parents. It's up to you to control it.

Your son was tested and found to be more advanced than his chronological age would indicate. He is able to process knowledge better and faster than his peers and as a consequence school becomes boring and he could possibly become a disruptive influence in his search for things to occupy his mind.

Since it is a shame to see an intelligence being supressed, someone has suggested moving him up to a level where he will be called upon to learn at a level more in line with his intellect. All well and good, some kids can rise to the challenge but while everyone has recognized your son's intelligence everyone seems to have missed one very important strategic item. His intellignce is advanced by several years but he is seven years old and his emotional development may still be stuck in seven year old mode. He's in classes with older children who are either ignoring the "kid" or teasing him. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that they do not include him in many of their activites. Since he is now in these advanced classes he has had perforce to leave many of his friends behind. They have things going on where he might fit in but he isn't around and you remember the old expression, out of sight out of mind??? This really hits home with seven year olds. What nobody seems to be taking very seriosly here, is, during the school day, your son is feeling excluded and as a consequence very lonely. This will cause a lot of stress in the mind of a seven year old and he is not emotionally geared to handling it. In fact if you called him on it he would probaly try to blow it off but if he were interviewed by a qualified professinal, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that would be the main part of the diagnosis.

I didn't know schools still were doing this sort of thing. While there motives and intentions mean well, I am astonished nobody has picked up on the stresses being applied to the child by this type of act. There is a solution but it isn't cheap. It calls for the establishment of classes for intellectually advanced kids but in the same age bracket. From our view point the emotional and intellectual development between a forty year old and a forty three year old appears to be miniscule but between seven and eight or seven and nine years old, there is a huge gap requiring a quantum leap to traverse it. Some kids can handle it; most can't. If you can't find or afford classes and/or schools for the intellectually advanced, then you are going to be called upon to provide even more patience and more support. The payoff comes, if you can get him through school, he will probably sail through university. With his mental capcities, it will be a walk in the park.

Anyway best of luck in resolvung this.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

My handwriting was/is awful and like your son I was considered gifted, so my early teachers ignored my deficiencies in that regard. Bad handwriting is very very difficult to correct though. Once your body had learnt bad habits as soon as you get under pressure it's falls back on it's earliest learning.

Things that improved mine, it's at least legible now, were big fat pens and fountain pens with an angled nib. Made me relearn some things as many of my old actions wouldn't result in any writing on the page at all. It will slow him down though for a bit, no avoiding that.
Another thing that I attempted though with limited success was a calligraphy course, unfortunately I wasn't interested enough to follow that through.
One day I'm going to have another go at that though, probably with my other hand as I rarely write more than my siganture now.

First of all, I'll admit my bias against the government-run schools that we both have to pay for and endure. (I'm assuming that your school is a government one, rather than a private one.) Of course, it goes without saying, that some communities and some schools are better than others. (So why did I have to say it?) The very nature of the system leans more towards a one-size-fits-all, rather than individualized approach. And to some degree, whether it be large or small, kids do indeed need individualized attention.

Some random thoughts:

I commend you and parents like you who both realize and accept that the child's education is ultimately a parental responsibility, not one that's automatically passed onto the government schools. Having said that, where the school is falling short, someone will have to pick up the slack, or let the kid fall through a crack.

If a teacher "yelled" at my 7 year old (especially for something that was not in the misbehaving category), I'd be absolutely livid. Not only is it mean, but it's counterproductive.

Perhaps you can help improve your son's writing skills. Write him letters and ask him to write back. Find a way to make it fun for him to write, and encourage him to improve that skill. There are a lot of resources available to help in this regard.

I think the key to dealing with kids, regardless of the issue, is expectations. But I cringe when I see situations in which the kid is almost expected to fail; and making excuses for one's failure is almost tantamount to expecting failure. If a school situation is anything close to this, I'd run as fast and as far away from that as possible. Kids seem to have a knack to live up to the expectations placed upon them, whether those expectations are high or low. Set the expectations high, and don't set him up to fail, but rather set him up to succeed.

I'm a firm believer in school choice for parents, regardless of how that's achieved or what it's called. Personally, I decided that the government schools (in my area) couldn't meet my expectation of placing high expectations, with the necessary support, on my son. So I've been biting the ~10 grand a year bullet for the past 10 years to put him in an environment where failure is not an option. He just turned 15, and he has a goal to attend Duke University. He knows that his current 3.2 GPA may not be good enough to make it, but the bar is indeed set very high. (But I think he'll make it.)

It's the hardest thing in the world to be a parent, not knowing what the right thing to do really is. And there is no one-size-fits-all answer.

Why is it that private schools have a better reputation for educating?

2 primary reasons:

Parental involvement.

Selective admissions.

I suspect that "IF" private schools had the same percentage of students whose parents didn't care, or were discipline problems, that the performance gap would be much narrower than it presently is.

On your apples and oranges comparison of New Jersey and Utah schools, (in another thread, you compared New Jersey and Iowa) the people in New Jersey are getting the results they deserve for underfunding their education system.

Further, the citizens of Iowa and Utah might just be over-paying for what they are getting.

Why do I suggest the above?
It costs a whole lot more to attract and keep quality teachers and administrators in large urban districts. Plus, the cost of running and maintaining the school buildings is much higher.

In Iowa and Utah, most likely, the tax dollars spent by the school district are only part of the equation. I am sure that those school districts have a lot of volunteers and donated goods and services.

As to subsidizing urban school districts, I suppose that both Iowa and Utah have a net lose of federal dollars spent on education. Still, since federal funding is only about 5% of all education spending, the subsidy is minimal.

Here we have limited schools of choice. Along with "charter" schools.

So far, I am not impressed by either.

The for profit charter schools so far, under perform the public schools on standardized testing.

Schools of choice has brought athletic recruiting to our high schools. Coaches and parents are pushing the talented athletes to attend the high school that offers them the best chance to stand out in their sport. The heck with academic goals.

Plus, the schools in the more affluent districts limit the number of students they are willing to take from the poorer districts.

Now, I do think it would be a good idea to have tax deductions, credits or incentives for those who wish to enroll their children in private non-profit schools.

But at the same time, we cannot afford to cripple the public school system. What will happen to those children who's parents don't care?

Chas