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US soldier escapes justice for abuse

By Hargerd ·

She didn't know what she was doing was wrong???

One word describes this........WHITEWASH!!

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You didn't understand the article

by j.lupo In reply to US soldier escapes justic ...

He tossed her plea and forced her defense and the prosecution to go back to the drawing board. During sentencing there was too much conflicting information about what happened. It is all about a fair trial. Besides, the guide that led it - Garner? - took all the blame and cast doubt at the hearing that she did know anything.

There are a lot of possibilities. What this means is that all the evidence has to be gone over again and back to a Grand Jury. she hasn't escaped any justice. However, she is inocent until proven guilty. She may yet plead guilty again. We don't know.

Personally I am not jumping to conclusions. Nobody will know what really happened but the participants who were there. We only know what the media tells us. IF we know any of the participants (and I don't) then we might know a little more.

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Who Cares!!

by ccthompson In reply to US soldier escapes justic ...

Who Cares if she knew what she was doing was wrong. Thats nothing compared to the Iraqi people be-heading our people.

Oh no, lets throw her in jail for trying to have a little fun(that I dont appove of but...) to cope with the **** she has just gone through.

As for them be-heading our people, is the Iraqi government going to do anything about that?

War is ****, but the media is worse.

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On the fense

by jkaras In reply to US soldier escapes justic ...

I admit I was awe struck seeing that she didnt know it was wrong. I have done alot of questionable things in my past, and each time I knew what I was doing, it just came down to did I think I could get away with it. To me saying she had no idea is rediculous. Do I think it was a crime? No, just poor taste in treatment, but nothing along the lines of the term "abuse". Physically harming someone is another ball of wax, and yellow journalism is running amock. The news is no longer objective, its about selling ads, not informing the public.

I for one am more concerned with proper accountability for the wrong information that posted and presented as fact that sent too many die in the war. These people wagged the dog, and got many innocent people including Iraqis dead for their agenda. These people are the ones who should be punished. If you ask any soldier who has served in any war or conflict, they would laugh at the thought of this being considered as abuse compared to what they have seen. OUr justice system has run amock punishing scapegoats to facilitate job progression in trumped up charges ruining people's lives. If you are rich or powerful, only a slap on the wrist, or aquittal.

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She didn't Escape anything!

by dbertsche In reply to US soldier escapes justic ...

She didn't escape justice, another poster accurately described the situation. She will get another day in court and will probably wind up doing some time eventually.

I don't condone what she did but believe the conditions there contributed to this situation to some extent. I don't believe she will get the maximum sentence.

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Punishment should fit the crime

by jdclyde In reply to She didn't Escape anythin ...

take pictures of her with someone pointing and laughing at her d$ck.

Punishment for humiliating people should be to be humiliated, not hard time.

Maybe more for the dude that connected the wires up to the guys nads and told him they were going to juice him. Now that is just wrong in any language.

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Not a whitewash, quite the opposite

by DC_GUY In reply to US soldier escapes justic ...

The brass is tossing her up as a sacrifice to deflect the attention from themselves. If it came out in a trial that she and her buddies had thought all this up themselves--heck your honor it was nothing but a frat hazing maybe kicked up a couple of notches--it would take the steam out of the movement to indict the entire military including its CIC for having anything to do with it other than a teeny lapse in oversight.

By establishing the possibility that she didn't know what she was doing was wrong (more on that in a second), the court is paving the way for an investigation into how a work environment that fosters such ignorance could come into existence. What incompetent bureaucrat or power-mad presidential sycophant let this happen?

As for such ignorance, well I've never been in combat. But I know enough people who have to understand that it changes you in a lot of very bad and very important ways. Your only job is to kill people, something you've spent your whole life "knowing" is extremey wrong. You can't do that without having your personality rebuilt by drill instructors and other experts.

One of the standard methods used in all wars is to dehumanize the enemy. He's not a person, he's a Redcoat or a Yank or some racial slur still too new and raw to print in polite company. It's so easy when he's really different in appearance, when all of them look really different from all of us.

Look at the things people from the same country, gene pool and cultural background do to each other during civil wars. If humans can be taught to hate that strongly, then directing that hate at everyone from a different country, gene pool and cultural background must be absurdly easy.

The actions of pfc England are just the dark side of war, a unique human endeavor that doesn't have much of a light side. Sure, absolutely, punish her for it, the Nuremburg Accords are not to be taken lightly. But the people I really want to see in stocks in the public square are the leaders who should have known that this was going on and either didn't know because the system has broken down, or didn't care because they are truly evil.

This is America. A major part of our identity as a nation, as a people, is the hubris of honestly believing that we're better than everyone else. If America is capable of something like this, it's time for us to grow up and stop lying to ourselves.

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Very well said

by CorTech In reply to Not a whitewash, quite th ...

One thing about it that bothers me is that it made us all (Americans) look stupid.

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Just heard on the news

by dbertsche In reply to Not a whitewash, quite th ...

The general who was in charge of the facility got busted back to Colonel. May not seem like much but her career as an army officer is basically over.

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Well it wouldn't seem so

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to US soldier escapes justic ...

apparently the evidence to convict and to judge the severity of her crime has been made doubtful. Given the (intensely disgusting in my opinion) practice of plea bargaining, there was no option but to review the proceedings that led up to her plea. Presumably the next court she attends will have to 'forget' that she'd already pleaded guilty.

As for not knowing what she did was wrong, well b0ll0cks. Not believing she would be prosecuted for it perhaps.

The point about de-humanisation in any military is well taken though, I've been on the recieving end of that. But they don't start with the enemy, they start with the recruits. Obviously someone who places too high a value on human life, will not make a good soldier.

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If a group of individuals in downtown Chicago...

by Hockeyist In reply to US soldier escapes justic ...

...were caught performing the same acts on illegal immigrants, I wonder if the court, and the people of America, would decide otherwise.

Maybe because it's in another land it's seen as being far from reality. What if the prison (Abu Ghraib) was on American soil, say in Washington. Would it have made a difference to the shock value? Would the general public have been more outraged?

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