value of certification

YOu have made the same assertion twice now and as someone involved in security(I assume from your alias), I would like to find out how you derived on a few of your conclusions. A security expert would be very analytical and sure of his work, you show none of this METHOD in your madness.

Firstly, you said something about me scamming people into a certain mindset. Perhaps you could elaborate by showing me just where I have attempted to SCAM anyone and show me proof as to how and why it is seem as a SCAM.

Secondly, you made a few comments that I am smoking dope before I type, either medical or just recreational, you are not too sure as a result of your analysis but the asssertion was firm.

Again, please show me how you reached this conclusion (other than the fact that I live in Canada and all Americans think Canadians have legal dope that can be bought at 7-11, which is wrong, dope is still illegal in Canada.).

Again, if you are going to start throwing such misguided comments around so loosely, perhaps provide some (ANY) conclusive evidence to back your findings.

You're acting like he's trying to push people into the IT field. It seems to me that all he's saying is that even when times are tough people can keep doing IT work to make their lives better. It's just that, as he indicates, sometimes you have to do something other than IT as well. Sometimes, one revenue stream simply isn't enough.

I guess that's why my father has three or four businesses of his own (I find it difficult to keep up, and am not sure how many there are at any given time).

You still haven't told me who you meant when you said "the other guy".

"YOu have no qualification behoind it, it is just a character slam to enforce your own."

(Somewhat) talks the talk, but nothing behind it.
Probably some disgruntled COMPTIA guy...?

IMO, no way he ever received any Six Sigma trainning. Probably some kid pulling your chain.

Never did find out who "the other guy" was though. Bummer.

Just a wondering. He sure has no Sigma Six backround as he suggested a while back. Too many land mines in his posting. No substance. Oh well, I thought he might have been interesting there for a minute.

So:

Are you or are you not the other guy?

Have a good holiday!

This thread's a write off, there have been a few pretty good battles on TR, this one was just a dud though and not a very good dud at that.

I sure hope I'm not "the other guy". I've never cheated on a girl, nor been with a girl that was cheating on anyone else, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Of course, I can't be sure that isn't what he meant, though I do doubt that he was referring to that sort of thing. Ah, well. Without being able to squeeze a direct answer out of him, I guess I'll just remain in the dark on that.

Maybe [b]you[/b] were "the other guy". That's possible, since you've agreed with him from time to time, too.

i am telling buddy, the guy that can't decide if he wants an A+ or MCSE or MCDBA or a BSC (btw - did anyone even bother to tell him that there is a HUGE difference all of those??!!) that it's going to be next to impossible for him to find a paying job in IT because there are tons of very experienced and competent peope out there applying for those jobs.

i think I am making perfect sense. i am not negative - i am being realistic. you on the other hand are blowing sunshine up his arse - if you aren't doing it for profit - then you are doing it for fun.

also, i didn't claim i have sigma six (wish i had!) but i did claim that I have an idea of how hard it is to come by - a very different ball game than cramming for a MCSE.

happy holidays, mr. positive.

I didn't say anything about Sigma Six.

"i think I am making perfect sense. i am not negative - i am being realistic. you on the other hand are blowing sunshine up his arse - if you aren't doing it for profit - then you are doing it for fun."

also, i didn't claim i have sigma six (wish i had!) but i did claim that I have an idea of how hard it is to come by - a very different ball game than cramming for a MCSE."

Actually, if you read my answer to the person & his response, you know that we discovered what was "up his arse" & removed it with PRODUCTIVE DIALOGUE.

Some of your posts offered some things to consider....on the other hand, others just intentionally insult the person(s) if they put something else on the table that differed from (you).

I believe (in another post) (OZ) has suggested your handle may refer to your function in IT. Maybe it refers to your "location"? I'm almost "positive" about that now too.

In any case, my point. You went from discussion to insult when someone seemed to disagree with you. You (seemed) to throw out some good stuff, and it was wasted when you got personal is all.

I already have a BS and understand the difference between A+, MCSE, and MCDBA, and have almost 7 years experience. I have to agree with Oz's philosophy that the more skills you have (IT and/or non IT), the better off you are. There is more money in specialization but less job security. Most MCSE's don't seem to have the database knowledge and programming skills to complement their networking "expertise". Hell, some of them wouldn't be able to open their computer and identify the major hardware parts.

YOu keep on making the most absurd assertions for some bizarre reason.

I never even noticed any comments about being long winded, if I did, it certainly hasn't been "buggin'" me as you suggest, how do you form such ridiculous conclusions?

There is a reason I explain in detail, people here often have a tendency to misunderstand another posters views if not clearly and intricately detailed.

SO lets get to the rest of your lies and see how they stack up shall we?

I don't service a GAP in anythying, again you are assuming you understand what I do.

I am manufacturer trained by an employer that hired me with NO computer skills at all, on specific proprietary VoIP and PBX based network equipment. To save my last employer money on ferry fares to service a key client worth a few million in sales, they needed someone ON the island to monitor and service the client.

I was in the middle of leaving my employer to MOVE to the island, this is how I picked up the contract. They pais a LOT of money to bring Fibre and T-1 lines to my home in Port Hardy and then installed two VoIP PBX's (owned by the client) for me to manage, do onsite service (or call in a tech as needed) and help with the company's advertising and marketing, online and in print. QUITE a bit different than your asuumption, as always.

The company has WELL over 2000 people, you were wrong again, in fact they are one of the largest grocery store chains in British Columbia.

So you haven't been right with a single comment so far, lets keep going anyway though...in your opinion I haven't done this because it requires a special skillset, well that would be a skillset not taught in ANY college or IT training school in North America, you are somewhat right about a specialized skillset but your conclusion is off.

You did get me wrong and EVERYONE is a special and unique case scenario, that's why they were hired to begin with.

You say I am unique in believing jobs are plentiful in Vancouver, this is the third or fourth time you have made this same comment without a single iota of proof or knowledge to support your claim. I on the other and have proven just what a diverse collection of positions are advertised daily in Vancouver, and only from ONE source of MANY available and not the best source at that.

How about you get a clue, then find some facts to post instead of just hot air, assumptions or lies.

Man, and to think that I jumped on here Christmas day to see if anyone needed help with a new computer!

very well then, why don't you tell us exactly what it is that you do in IT that is so in demand and overflowing with opportunities. we want to read details.

Oh, just admit it. You got on TR to bask in my glory.

He already did tell you what he does, in response to another post of yours.

Well you actually said a few things here...

To be sure, for now anyway, your approach sucks. I think your issue has for some reason, turned personal with OZ & the "other guy".

Too bad, I think you had something to say/offer.

But for now, I could sure use all those nails your spiting building my new office.

Happy Holidays DAFE2

I am a "jack" and I have not been out of work...even after I was laid off in Jan 02, I barely let the door hit me in the backside on the way out that door and I was on the phone drumming up consulting jobs. I have been FT at a mid-sized company for about 2 years now, one man IT shop. You have to be a "jack" its the wave of the future. You will need to have the skills to communicate to all managment/people classes in the organization. A bridge or conduit getting the people productive ...now here is the "but" I believe that as you fine tune your "jack" skills you need to be specializing in something that you are "interested" or excited about. For me its security I am now currently working on my CISSP. I also B.Sc. in MIS, NO certs...[yet]

Of how and why people go running of on personal tangents and simply are not reading or compreheding the posts they are replying to.

Now, in breif, I will quickly remind that you that I have an MCNE. THAT'S IT! I am manufacturer certfied tech for NEC NEX PBX's and VoIP solutions. Nortel certified for the BCM.

I am not looking for work in telecom so THOSE 'certs' are simply something for my bum whenI run out of paper.

I am not even interested in getting in to Netware admin, unless just remote monitoring and maintenance from home, which is another opportunity I am considering.

There are opportunities in consulting for ERP, Marketing new product launches, running sales forces, corporate web design, companies that are lookgin for e0commerce solutions. Companys looking to revamp their entire process (network and desktops, admin processes, inventory control etc.) Just scads of opportunities to get set into well paid and secure opporunities.

The list is endless really, unless you like to shut doors ad narrow down your expertise, thus seeing no oportunity and especially no opportunity to make any decent money, waiting to squeeze into an innundated field isn't a solution.

The funniest part, I have no certs (no Microsoft certs anyway)8 years hands on experience and I am being interviewed and considered for/offered any of the positions noted above and others. I am picking and choosing a new career, not waiting for one.

So what is the hardest part you are not understanding? Seems pretty straight forward to me, no grandiose pipe dreams as you infer, just someone wiling to earn a living and try something new.

Excellent post dude, I concur, my brother-n-law is a high end "Specialist" in 3D visualization technology and he sent out 300+ resumes all over the country/flying here and there/interview after interview, etc.... Guess how he got his job, a friend referred him! he got the job. $150k/year hah, now this was a very painful time that my sister and he went through. He was without a job for about 18 months, wound up working at circuit city and selling "coupon books"!!! talk about being humbled...my bro-n-law helped design/test the HUD display!! dudes you have to network, don't isolate yourselves!

My point was that you cannot look at pay rate alone. Some people's idea of high pay is a lot different than other people's. Housing costs are a big factor for me, because I live in an area with the lowest housing costs in the US (Cities over 100k). It makes it difficult to move elsewhere.

I find that being a jack of all trades is the best.. Being specialized is a death sentence unless you like changing jobs more than your underwear. And of the few people I know with BS degrees is just that BS. Most of their college experience is worthless... Real world experience is the best experience. I don't know how many times I've asked someone fresh out of college a Microsoft or Cisco question and they looked at me like a deer caught in headlights. Someone with multiple certs and real world experience will smoke a college boy any day... unless they are MIT grad or something along those lines... but how many of those people do you know. Just my 2 cents.

I have a similar background and have been thinking about pursuing more certifications. Currently I have a tech school diploma, associates degree, and bachelors all majoring in computers. Have completed A+, and Network+ certifications and currently work in govt supporting Novell/Windows 3000 user network. I've have been working in the computer field since 2000. The A+ certification was the first I have ever taken and was disappointed in the certification test. My view of certifications changed. Dont get me wrong you can learn alot by studying for them but you also have to study alot of stuff you will never use. The tests sometimes reflect to much on the "never use stuff" and not enough on the "needed things". I believe the tests objectives and study materials should be more in line with each other. Having to get a book, practice quizzes, braindump study questions etc. just to get enough information to find the "never use stuff" is not my idea of what a certication should be about. Although I will probably take more exams in the future I do have more realistic expectation of what I will get out of a certification. Make sure to use it as just part of your career plans and training. Education, Experience, and Certifications are great just make sure you dont rely on just one to get you ahead. It takes time...

Just my thoughts..

Certs are needed for a few reasons.

First and most important, you CAN NOT do warranty work if you are not certified.

Some employers look for certs as a way of qualifying future employtees.

The cert needs to be in something exclusive to get preference and pay increases. People that are certified on printers can often make more than a MS certified tech and they only touch printers.

Some employers will give raises based on education and certs. I got a raise when I got my MACE, and expect another raise when I get my CCNA and Networking BS.

Like Oz said, you don't HAVE to have the certs always. But there are still times when they do help or are required.