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WE ARE ONE

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by hal 9000 Jan 23, 2004 last reply Feb 7, 2004

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We are the people of a free nation of blokes, sheilas and the
occasional wanker. We come from many lands (although a few too many
of us come from New Zealand), and although we live in the best
country in the world, we reserve the right to bitch and moan about
it whenever we bloody like. We are One Nation but divided into many
States.

First, there's Victoria, named after a queen who didn't believe in
lesbians. Victoria is the realm of Mossimo turtlenecks, cafe latte,
grand final day, and big horse races. Its capital is Melbourne,
whose chief marketing pitch is that "it's liveable". At least that's
what they think. The rest of us think it is too bloody cold and wet.

Next, there's NSW, the realm of pastel shorts, macchiato with sugar,
thin books read quickly and millions of dancing queens. Its capital
Sydney has more queens than any other city in the world and is proud
of it. Its mascots are Bondi lifesavers that pull their Speedos up
their cracks to keep the left and right sides of their brains
separate.

Down south we have Tasmania, a State based on the notion that the
family that bonks together stays together. In Tassie, everyone gets
an extra chromosome at conception. Maps of the State bring smiles to
the sternest faces. It holds the world record for a single mass
shooting, which the Yanks can't seem to beat no matter how often
they try.

South Australia is the province of half-decent reds, a festival of
foreigners and bizarre axe murders. SA is the state of innovation.
Where else can you so effectively reuse country bank vaults and
barrels as in Snowtown, just out of Adelaide (also named after a
queen). They had the Grand Prix, but lost it when the views of
Adelaide sent the Formula One drivers to sleep at the wheel.

Western Australia is too far from anywhere to be relevant. It's
main claim to fame is that it doesn't have daylight saving because if it
did, all the men would get erections on the bus on the way to work.
WA was the last state to stop importing convicts and many of them
still work there in the government and business.

The Northern Territory is the red heart of our land. Outback plains,
sheep stations the size of Europe, kangaroos, Jackaroos, emus,
Uluru, and dusty kids with big smiles. It also has the highest beer
consumption of anywhere on the planet and its creek beds have the
highest aluminium content of anywhere too. Although the Territory is
the centrepiece of our national culture, few of us live there and
the rest prefer to flyover it on our way to Bali.

And there's Queensland. While any mention of God seems silly in a
document defining a nation of half arsed sceptics, it is worth
noting that God probably made Queensland, as its beautiful one day
and perfect the next.

Oh yes and there's Canberra. The less said the better.

We, the citizens of Oz, are united by Highways, whose treacherous
twists and turns kill more of us each year than murderers. We are
united in our lust for international recognition, so desperate for
praise we leap in joy when a rag tag gaggle of corrupt IOC officials
tells us Sydney is better than Beijing. We are united by a democracy
so flawed that a political party albeit a redneck gun toting one,
can get a million votes and still not win one seat in Federal
Parliament. Not that we're whingeing, we leave that to our Pommy
immigrants.

We want to make "no worries mate" our national phrase, "she'll be
right mate" our national attitude and "Waltzing Matilda" our
national anthem (so what if it's about a sheep-stealing crim who
commits suicide). We love sport so much our newsreaders can read the
death toll from a sailing race and still tell us who's winning.
And we're the best in the world at all the sports that count, like
cricket, netball, rugby league and union, AFL, roo shooting, two up
and horse racing. We also have the biggest rock, the tastiest pies,
and the worst dressed Olympians in the known universe. Only in
Australia can a pizza delivery get to your house faster than an
ambulance. Only in Australia do we have bank doors wide open, no
security guards, or cameras but chain the pens to the desk.

Stand proud Aussies - we shoot, we root, we vote. We are girt by
sea and pissed by lunchtime. Even though we might seem a racist, closed
minded, sports obsessed people, at least we feel better for it.

I am, you are, we are Australian!

P.S We also shoot and eat the two animals that are on our National
Crest!!!! No other country has this distinction!

HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY - January 26, 2004.

Now while Australia Day is something like the 4 th July in the USA what I'm interested in seeing is if anyone can come up with something similar to this only about the country that they live in.

Any takers?

And just for the record I didn't write the above as there are no spelling mistakes so that should be a dead give away.

Col

108 replies

by maxwell edison Jan 23, 2004

.
America The Beautiful. Katharine Lee Bates wrote the original version in 1893. She wrote the 2nd version in 1904. Her final version was written in 1913.

Here is a note from Katharine Lee Bates:

"One day some of the other teachers and I decided to go on a trip to 14,000-foot Pikes Peak. We hired a prairie wagon. Near the top we had to leave the wagon and go the rest of the way on mules. I was very tired. But when I saw the view, I felt great joy. All the wonder of America seemed displayed there, with the sea-like expanse."

America the Beautiful - 1913

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife.
Who more than self the country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for halcyon skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the enameled plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till souls wax fair as earth and air
And music-hearted sea!

O beautiful for pilgrims feet,
Whose stern impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America ! America !
God shed his grace on thee
Till paths be wrought through
wilds of thought
By pilgrim foot and knee!

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life !
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!

----------

A personal note:
Pikes Peak, one of the "fourteeners" (a mountain peak with a summit over 14,000 feet above sea level) in Colorado's Rocky Mountains (my home state), the setting that inspired Katharine Lee Bates to write that beautiful prose, is visible on a clear day from my home sixty miles to the north. I used to live at the foot of Pikes Peak in a town called Green Mountain Falls, home of the not so famous, but absolutely wonderful Pikes Pub and Grub, a quaint log cabin style bar and grille in which I spent many hours. Pikes Peak is the first fourteener I ever climbed. It's also the last fourteener I ever climbed. (It's also the ONLY fourteener I ever climbed!) So this is special to me.

by maxwell edison Jan 23, 2004

.
By the way, for those who may not know, but might be interested, Pikes Peak is on the eastern side of the Rocky Mountain Range. The view from the top varies, depending on the direction you are looking. If you look north or south, you see what is called the front range and the foothills, where the mountains meet the plains. Cheyenne Mountain, inside of which is the home to NORAD (and where I was stationed for two years) is just to the south, and Longs Peak and Mount Evans can be seen to the north. If you look to the west, you see dozens of more fourteeners, many of them snow capped year-round, and way across the continental divide. The view to the west is one of never ending mountains, most of which are below, but some a bit higher. If you look to the east you see the beautiful city of Colorado Springs and well beyond to what seems to be never ending prairie. The Kansas border is about 200 miles to the east, and on a clear day I've often wondered if I could see that far.

The last time I was up there, about a year ago, it was very cloudy, and visibility on the road (this time I drove up) was not much more than a few feet, or so it seemed. As the winding road took us up through the clouds, visibility got worse and worse, but then it started to get better. Just before we reached the summit, about a half-mile or so from the top, we drove out of the clouds and instantly into the clear. The view on that day was probably the most magnificent I've ever experienced from the top of Pikes Peak. Nothing was visible except clear blue sky up above, and the puffy white cotton-like clouds about a half-mile below. To the east we could only see where the blue sky met the white clouds, and it gave the impression you could walk on the clouds all the way to Kansas. To the west were only the tallest of peaks, but probably a dozen or more, poking through the clouds, touching the sky. Man oh man, talk about the feeling of being above it all.

by hal 9000 Jan 25, 2004

I really Liked the prose it was brilliant and I can just see the image that you described as I've seen thsi before and I love it as it is so quite an peacful {no computers around to ruin the day.}

But is this the same Pikes Peak that they race up?

by guruofdos Jan 29, 2004

You may know (you may not!) that I am an avid reader of novels by Robert A. Heinlein. There is just something about his 'future histories' that appeals to me.

Of course, as a Brit, my knowledge of the geography of the US is not exactly comprehensive (I can find my way from JFK Airport to the in-laws house, 200 miles upstate, but that's about it...sorry!).

Many of his stories have settings based in the US, at least to start with, and one place mentioned in at least ten books ('Starman Jones' and 'The Man Who Sold The Moon' spring immediately to mind) is 'Pikes Peak'. This is the obvious place (it seems to Heinlein) to install a 'catapult' stage for space rockets so that a chemical powered rocket can have a boost before 'lighting the fires'.

Anyway, aside from any environmental issues involved with launching spacecraft, I have often wondered where Pikes Peak actually WAS...not enough obviously to do any research otherwise I would have probably found out by now, but just enough to stash away in the corner of my mind in the folder marked 'Stuff To Find Out Before I Die!'.

A bit of background information adds enormously to my enjoyment of any historical (future historical in this case) novel and now, thanks to your informative post, I have a little more inforation that I didn't have before and (more importantly) 'One Less Thing To Find Out Before I Die'.

Learn something new every day is my motto - thanks for the geography lesson Max:-)

by dc_guy Jan 23, 2004

If Los Angeles County were a country it would be the world's 13th largest economy. Actually most Americans on both sides of the county line think it is a separate country. It has as many languages and cuisines as Europe and it is the world's primary supplier of popular culture.

"I Love L.A." by Randy Newman

Rolling down Imperial Highway,
Big, nasty redhead by my side.
Santa Ana wind blowing hot from the north.
We were born to ride.
Roll down the windows, pull down the top.
Crank up the Beach Boys, baby,
Don't let the music stop.
We're gonna ride like we just can't ride no more.

From the mountains to the valleys,
From the Westside to the Eastside,
Everybody's very happy.
It's just another perfect day!

I love L.A.

by jkaras Jan 23, 2004

I always like that song, poor Randy was a one hit wonder, but at least everyone knows that song. I lived in Stockton and frequented LA many times, great place!!

Here in Orlando I am surrounded by rednecks that never seen a cow and claim that this is the true south since it is the farthest southern state. It blows my mind giving me hours of chuckles watching and hearing their southern draws and prostrating around like they just came off the range.
We claim to have the largest surf shop in the world "Ron Jons", yet our waves topple a whopping four feet on the best day.

As for Colin you made my day making me laugh hysterically as my fellow workers give me the wary eye. The bank, olympic, and daylight savings crack almost made me cry laughing, good stuff mate. Its this kind of humor and famous generosity that has made it a life goal to visit down under.

As for US querks: we are the only country founded on diversity yet we disire conformity.
we claim we are the melting pot yet we dont want outsiders.
Clinton getting out of trouble proves that America loves BJ's and Oval Office is now the Oral Office.
we have been proven time and time again that a lot of our people dont know who our Vice President is despite the current administration yet we are really loyal.
justice is ruled by the best lawyer not the crime.
anti abortionists care about the unborn fetus but dont care once youre out of the womb
we always seem to have violent cults that pop up involving deaths.
we are seen like police officers, happy to have us around when you need protection but hate us being around just in case.
our cities riot when our teams loose, destroying our own city?
we bicker over Puerto Rico having the right to vote and be taxed yet we call ourselves United States
our national past time is actually Japan's now.
we call your football(which doesnt use hands) soccer and our football rarely involves the use of feet.
only in America does anyone bicker over religion in schools when we have the freedom of religion.
we have cameras in every business because we trust everyone.
people hate us but everyone agrees that they hate the French more.
we "Americanize" everything from other countries and call it our own.
we say "buy American" yet we buy foriegn products because they are better built.

by john_wills Jan 23, 2004

"anti abortionists care about the unborn fetus but dont care once you're out of the womb". That simply isn't true. Think of the work of Birthright for a start. Ask anti-abortion people their opinions about social issues and you'll find them in favor of many kinds of private and common aid to people down on their luck. Turn that round: ask those who work to alleviate poverty - an extreme example would be Mother Teresa's sisters - what they think of abortion.
A church with a right-to-life group, or with parishioners active in Birthright or the like is usually a church with many other charitable and educational involvements.

by mrbill- Jan 24, 2004

"we say "buy American" yet we buy foriegn products because they are better built. "
Not always better built, the driving factor is usually cheaper than better. The japanese imports in the 70 and early 80 were mostly junk, but cheap junk.

by jardinier Jan 25, 2004

I don't know in which country soccer originated, but I would guess the UK.
We play Rugby Leage and Rugby Union (a lot of body contact with no suit of armour as in American football).
Totally unique to Australia is Australian Rules, which I think originated in Victoria, but is now one of the most popular forms of football. Again, plenty of body contact with no visible protective devices.
These versions of football all include field goals (foot kicks ball between white posts) so the feet are most certainly important.
So we consider American football is for pussies, who need to wear their "suit of armour" in order to play the game.
With four different versions of football popular in Australia, it has a huge and passionate following with most people.

by hal 9000 Jan 26, 2004

Of one of our Natianal Themes with quite added in. Because of my "Waped Sence of Hummor" I liked it.

Actually I don't want to start anything like a US bashing thing here but I do agree with you about the "Buy Americiam" bit as I recently imported a Bell Crash Helment as they are all that I will ever consider waering and I was shocked to find a "Made in Itialy" sticker on it.

What is the world comming to when Bell Helments are made in Itialy?

by jkaras Jan 23, 2004

singing a Pat Benatar song, LOl. WE are one, no one can tell us were wrong, no promises no demands, love is a battlefield.

by oz_media Jan 24, 2004

we are young, heartache to heartache we stand
no promises, no demands, love is a battlefield

we are strong, no one can tell us we're wrong
searchin' our hearts for so long, both of us knowinglove is a battlefield

That's OK I hardly remember the 80's either :-P

Men at Work were fine in their time though.

Traveling in a fried-out combie
On a hippie trail, head full of zombie
I met a strange lady, she made me nervous
She took me in and gave me breakfast
And she said,

"Do you come from a land down under?
Where women glow and men plunder?
Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder?
You better run, you better take cover."

by guruofdos Jan 24, 2004

Anything by Rolf Harris is the tops! I sing Court of King Caractacus to GuruJr to get her to sleep!

I loved his version of Stairway To Heaven too! All good, innocent and innofensive stuff!

by jkaras Jan 23, 2004

I only posted that thought due to the fact that the people that picket and force their morality upon others to pressure them from what they are about to do only show up to save the child. Once they win their crusade they dont continue to get involved with THAT particular child guiding it or monitarily supporting it. On to the net life to save, they dont take responsibility after the fact. They dont give the ostrasized youth a loving home, a job, or a shoulder to cry on when the weight of being a parent gets to much. I admit they are trying to make the world a better place but they go about it the wrong way with their tactics and their violence to get their way.

I personally, am against having an abortion and would never have the woman I'm with have one regardless of my financial situation, that's my responsibility and my child. If I chose to get funky I took the risk. I do however believe that it has to be legal. It's unfortunate, but outlawing it wont work. Why? cause you cant erase knowledge, it will continue in back streets and doctors willing to make an extra buck. Some not all anti abortionists claim they got what they had coming to them while smiling saying all life is sacred. You cant forget how to do the abortion anymore than building nuclear warheads. Information has responsibility and with that you teach your own and tend your own garden. I dont like someone telling me what I need to believe in, that's my choice and plenty of blood has been spilt over that right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and they alone bear the responsibility to answer for themselves and need to look themselves in the mirror every day, that's their cross to bear.

by john_wills Jan 26, 2004

If I try to stop you eating pork because its treff, I am forcing my opinion on you. If I try to stop you eating pork because I believe that pigs are sentient animals with human-style rights the situation is rather different. Those who oppose abortion for the most part do so because they accept modern biology and do not believe that God breathes in a soul at some arbitrary time; they are no more forcing their opinions on others than the British did in India by banning suttee.

by jkaras Jan 26, 2004

Bombing clinics, picketing clinics hurtling schameful accusations of that person's character is forcing their opinion on others. They dont recognise others rights and bully to sway that persons beliefs thru peer pressure not thru educating the person with a discussion. They get on their moral high horse and judge others preaching hate not love while maintaining strength in numbers. You and I having a discussion on beliefs is equal, gaining understanding about an issue. An angry mob mentality follow us or else is forcing someone whether it is with a fist or words. Granted there are many wonderful people that walk the walk and talk the talk properly making a difference so not ALL are bad there just happens to be quite a few who miss the boat on civility. If you have kids do you want me or my group of friends to inflict my/our morality threatening harm or being ostracized from their peers if they dont follow our ways? Morality should be taught in the home and if the job is done right, then you have nothing to fear now dont you?

by oz_media Jan 24, 2004

Australia SUCKS!!

The dump is almost always warm, those dan leggy blodes are all just piss tanks, Watney's Red Barrel is piss, Vegemite is just a British Marmite rip-off.

Your people are too laid back and care free, they spend al day drinking and playing macho man sports WITHOUT the safety padding.

Your miles of vast uninhabited wildlife and barren land is just a damn waste of space.

Yeah, sure man, happy freakin' Ozzy Day!!

by guruofdos Jan 24, 2004

Every time you go to the dunny, you have to look around to make sure a lethal red-back spider isn't going to bite you on the buttocks!

Apart from that, Australia isn't too shabby!

by oz_media Jan 24, 2004

I absolutely love Australia, it's like a 24/7 summer holiday, I guess not so much if you work there, but the place never stops. Always a good time to be found and always good people to share it with.

Two thumbs up,
OM

by hal 9000 Jan 26, 2004

One of the country and Westeren singers wrote a song about it quite a few years ago now.

But I really like Billy Connelly's verison of things over here like the "Box Jellyfisk" {they come giftwrapped}, or the "FunnelWeb Spider" which he thought would only be found in the "Bush" {which is a single tree in the middle of Australia} but was actually found 300 yards down the street from where he saw a preserved specimen in a chemist shop.

And I'll be very nice here and not mention the song "Willy The Winging POM!"

Col

by guruofdos Jan 24, 2004

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

* * *

I couldn't put it better myself! But one Cecil Spring-Rice wrote this in 1918...

I vow to thee, my country?all earthly things above?
Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love;
The love that asks no question, the love that stands the test,
That lays upon the altar the dearest and the best;
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
The love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

And there?s another country, I?ve heard of long ago?
Most dear to them that love her, most great to them that know;
We may not count her armies, we may not see her King;
Her fortress is a faithful heart, her pride is suffering;
And soul by soul and silently her shining bounds increase,
And her ways are ways of gentleness, and all her paths are peace.

***

It doesn't matter what's right or what's wrong with YOUR country. You are it's citizen and you are part of it, for better or worse, and should be proud of the good, ashamed of the bad and prepared to fight (physically and metaphorically)for it's freedom and culture, where that fight doesn't compromise the freedoms or cultures of others.

by jardinier Jan 25, 2004

Great to see them posted here at TR. While I have your attention, you might like to check out my newest website, www.killaracomputers.com
Feedback and contributions most welcome of course.

P.S. If anyone objects to me plugging my websites in TR discussions, just let me know and I will desist.

by jardinier Jan 25, 2004

This is THE classic poem about Australia.

My Country

by Dorothea McKellar

The love of field and coppice, of green and shaded lanes,
Of ordered woods and gardens is running in your veins.
Strong love of grey-blue distance, brown streams and soft, dim skies-
I know but cannot share it, my love is otherwise.

I love a sunburnt country, a land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges, of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons, I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror- the wide brown land for me!

The stark white ring-barked forests, all tragic to the moon,
The sapphire-misted mountains, the hot gold hush of noon,
Green tangle of the brushes where lithe lianas coil,
And orchids deck the tree-tops, and ferns the warm dark soil.

Core of my heart, my country! Her pitiless blue sky,
When, sick at heart, around us we see the cattle die -
But then the grey clouds gather, and we can bless again
The drumming of an army, the steady soaking rain.

Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
Over the thirsty paddocks, watch, after many days,
The filmy veil of greenness that thickens as we gaze.

An opal-hearted country, a wilful, lavish land -
All you who have not loved her, you will not understand -
Though earth holds many splendours, wherever I may die,
I know to what brown country my homing thoughts will fly.

by hal 9000 Jan 25, 2004

I had to make a trip down south to pickup a Classic Mercedes Coupe so for the last 48 hours I've had no sleep and constant driving. And I wouild not have missed it for the world.

So I'm hitting the water bed right now and I'll get back after a sleep and read everyting that's been posted here.

Thanks for the responce

Col

by maxwell edison Jan 25, 2004

.
Yes, this is one in the same Pikes Peak. First held in 1916, they call this the race to the clouds. I've attended the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb on several occasions, but it's been many years since my last one. It use to be that they allowed camping anywhere on the peak the night before the race, and I've done that a couple of times. But they no longer allow it, at least I don't think they do anymore (which would be a shame), because the party atmosphere just got too rowdy. But it was a great way to see the race - just find a good switchback or straight-away, set up camp the night before on a strategic overlook, and be prepared for a full day of racing fun.

And another unique thing about the race is the many different divisions of racing. There are Super Stock Car, Open Wheel, Big Rig, Motorcycle, with several divisions within that as well (different sizes and all, including vintage motorcycle and side-car cycles). You get to see all different kinds of races all wrapped up into one event.

It's a fitting race for you to mention, considering the subject of your thread. The race is held on the 4th of July each and every year. You should attend sometime. But would you be a spectator or, perhaps, enter the motorcycle division of the race?

http://www.sanbornlegacy.com/pikespeakhillclimb.htm

http://www.wyattphoto.com/Ken/html/Hill_Climb_2003.htm

http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/wb_pp98/story.html

http://www.softronics.com/abtppeak.html

http://www.loc.gov/bicentennial/propage/CO/co_s_allard2.html

(Don't forget to remove those pesky spaces from the pasted URLs.)

Later...

by hal 9000 Jan 26, 2004

I used to co-own a company who use to prepare some Super Vee motors for a few race teams over there.

I think we got the work because of the exchange rate and the Aussie $ wasn't worth shit compared to the US $ so these teams used to send most of the parts over and we assembled the engines and they where so happy with our work that at least one of us used to go over there for some races. I drew the Pikes Peek Competition and I loved it even thought it was a "Working Holiday" for me. Anyway most of the drivers are even more "Brain Dead" than the teams that they drive for and the Historic vehicles owners are even worse as they do it for "Fun" I used to race a 1959 250 cc Ducati in the same type of thing so I know exactly what happenes on these events. The try as hard as possible and most likely manage to destroy something that is next to impossible to replace but they are back again next year doing exactly the same thing all over again.

That is probably why I'm not a good driver as I tend to look after the machinery rather than push it just that little bit harder to get there and pass the next guy or whatever to make up some time. But I really did enjoy the meeting even if I had to work there it only added to the fun of the whole thing for me. But then again I'm not a "Normal sought of person" as I like this sought of thing I'm only sorry that I never wrangeled a trip over to the Isle of Man for the TT's but I'll get there one day.

How's this I started out with a company building race equipment from complete cars to engines and then progressed to building engine managment systems because there where no comerical units available at the time and then migrated to building complete engines from a blank piece of paper to the finished product. When that whent belly up because we where defiantly in the wrong part of the worls wth a very small market I went into computers as I had a bit of Electronic Design experience behind me and haven't manage to excape ever since. But i must at some level like the work because I'm still doing it though on some days I do wonder just why but thewn again I think we all do that from time to time.

by maxwell edison Jan 25, 2004

.
I was listening to a talk radio sports show recently, and the question of the day was, who's "tougher", players of rugby or players of American professional football? If I remember correctly, the consensus was about evenly divided 50-50. I wouldn't want to make a guess, as either could, most likely, pretty much have their way with me.

by hal 9000 Jan 26, 2004

I think and it was about Aussie Rules being played in the USA if I remember correctly they already have in excess of 100 female teams playing and I would imange a lot more male teams involved. As these are probably not as yet "Professional Teams" they claimed to have a large and growing following.

But I'm with you here I wouldn't like to say which is better as it would only be my opinion and I'm sure to upset quitre a few others who believe pasionatly in their prefered sport whatever that may be.

Col

by tomsal Jan 26, 2004

I used to play Rugby (We called it kill the man back then) and of course football.

I like them both. I will say today, I think american football is a better sport for the spectator to watch. As for this debate on who are tougher Rugby or American Football players...well yes American Football has the "suit of armor" but they also hit harder, this is anatomical fact. Have you ever had a helmet driven into your side..if you say "well yeah but they have padding" no you don't get it. The padding really doesn't help much in some scenarios.

On the other hand the passion of Rugby is much higher I think. The players are more charged.

Either way both sports will break bones, knock guys out cold or send them to the hospital and both games are fun to play.

I just think hands down American Football is best made for the spectator.

by jkaras Jan 26, 2004

I agree that American Football is the better to watch. The organization of tactics and plays makes it exciting. Rugby players get the nod though in toughness, they do it for peanuts. I dont have the balls now or even when I was in prime shape as a teenager to try my luck at rugby. Football players hit hard with the gear and still get career ending injuries but they play it safe pending on the game, competitors, contract negotiations, and so forth. I do think that hockey players are the toughest. No sport plays as many games in a season, the low pay, constant concusions, missing teeth, and their fights while in a dangerous arena.

On a side note if I ever get to go to Australia I want to be the ref guy in their Australian football. The guy who gets dressed in a funny looking suit and hat that does the dorky double finger point with fierce authority and intensity when a team scores. I only watch it for that guy and not the game, it cracks me up and is something right up my alley.

by hal 9000 Jan 26, 2004

You'de better not let anyone in the UK civil service hear you say that or they will be down on you like a tom of bricks.

How much "Therapy" do you think GuruJr is going to need with an early life experience like that?

Or you could be like a friend of mine who has an alarm clock which plays "Black Sabath" at 78 RPM's at full volume with the spealers about 1 foot either side of you're head. The first time you're expsed to this you do really see "GOD" but with time you do not get so alarmed by it and it does wake you up extremly fast. The only draw back however is that you remain deaf for the next few days other wise it seems to work OK.

Col

by oz_media Jan 26, 2004

I actually remember the three legged man who used to draw those amazing pictures in what 1 minute or something?

he was my childhood here, along with Albin Stardust (co co I just want you) and Gary Giltter whowas a laughing stock in 75 but later became world famous as joe cool for writing Rock'N Roll. Gery Glitter? Liberace? Coincindence?

by guruofdos Jan 27, 2004

I used to work for PC World (UK chain of computer retail stores)as a technician, and one day a certain Mr G. Glitter (Ya wanna be in my gang!) brought a PC in for a repair. Unfortunately, myself and a couple of other techs found some rather sinister and illegal material on the hard disk (certain jpg images of a rather disturbing and upsetting sexual nature) which resulted in him being turned into the police on child porn charges. The downside was that he was SUPPOSED to be performing later that December at a '70's Glam Rock' Christmas dinner and dance which the 'day job' had purchased tickets for!

Christmas dinner still happened, but no dance!

by msamson Jan 26, 2004

Aside from a regional references... Sounds pretty much like Canada... People are just as nice, just as loopy and just as ready for a pint and a joke!!

Good day Eh!!

by guruofdos Jan 26, 2004

Nobody sings about Australia as well as Kevin 'Bloody' Wilson. He's tops!

by oz_media Jan 26, 2004

My god, I heard my first KBW at age 12 and just about weed myself. The following summer I was in Australia for the first time and looked high and low but couldn't find any tapes (remember tapes? Not 8-tracks but cassettes).

I left a note with my mum's friend about gettnig soem and sending it home to England. Just a week after I got home my brand new, KBW turned up.

Well I was the life of the party (especially the Christmas parties ;-))and everyone wanted to know who this guys was. Since then I have a collection of KBW tapes, MP3's and a few posters. I found some backyard stuff taped at a local pub and it even makes his tapes sound rame.

Thanks to the Micks and Yobbos who keep the world amusing.

by my_hood_welded_shut Jan 26, 2004

As for me, I choose New Zealand. The sheep are friendlier than the bloody kangaroos!

by guruofdos Jan 27, 2004

Now there's a place.

A land of sixty-five million sheep, three million of whom think they're people!

I nearly emigrated there in '88. I went out for six weeks and fell in love with the place, but having experienced four minor earthquakes during that time (two of which were in Christchurch), and realising they had NO electronics industry, I gave it up as a bad job!

Bad move perhaps?

by john_wills Jan 26, 2004

Mainly, I think, in order to convince themselves they're not British, Irish nationalists have invented (perhaps from scratch, perhaps by development of informal happenings on ancient village greens) Gaelic Football. There are two methods of scoring, so that the reported results are quoted in the format 2-3,1-4; I do not know what is getting counted. At one time there was a ban on people who played soccer ("British football") from playing also in Gaelic leagues; in the 1950s there arose a "bomb the ban" movement.
There is also a Gaelic Hockey, with the same double scoring. It is played on a field, not a rink.
The tie-in with Irish nationalism is such that in Northern Ireland until fairly recently police officers were not allowed to join the Gaelic leagues.

by oz_media Jan 26, 2004

I believe Rugby is a rougher sport as the play doesn't get stopped until everyone has had a chance at kicking someone's ass. Instead of HIT>DOWN>WHISTLE it is hit>down>up>hit>down>up.hit>down>up while hoping to hear a whislte to help clear the stars,I played HS rugby (just loved being called the Hooker)as well as bantam football and hockey.

Hockey had the most serious injuries, mainly due to fighting and a puck in the chops. Rugby was hardwer due to the physical strength needed for extended periods of time. Football, sure you get hit pretty hard and yes, the helmets hurt like hell but you get a lot more time to compose yourself and the players are on a quicker rotation throughout the game.

Hockey I think is a tough game to play, you need finess, speed and strength three or four games per week. Ittakes it's toll in no time. During these four games a week, you also squeeze travel across the country and need to deal with jetlag just hours before a game.

It's like fighting in comparisson, a second degree black belt can win in tournament situations yet when matched to a long time street brawler, stamnia come into play as it isn't broken up after each contact.

All these sports are pretty rough and tough but as for who I'd want to scrap in a street fight, preferrably none of them, but I'd pick the football player first, hockey player CLOSE second to the overall fear of going toe to toe with a pro rugby player. :-O

In fact I used to like getting into it with the HS football guys as they always thought that big meant tough, how much can you press syndrom. How about, how fast can you avoid THIS... Size and strength is not tough, these are confused too easily.

by hereinoz Jan 26, 2004

Fantastic, Col, brightened my lunchtime. I will rise (not like the West Australians in the morning) to the defence of our country regarding shooting the two animals on our National Crest.

We do it because we can, whereas the English (Poms as we call them), in their usual underhand and sneaky fashion, choose two animals such as the Lion and the Griffin for their crest.

Correct me if I am wrong but you don't see many Lions and Griffins roaming about England these days!! So, typical of the Poms, they pick two animals that they have absolutley no chance of shooting, bung them on their crest, then go crook at us for shooting ours. Typical!

What is on the USA National coat of arms?? Can they shoot that or aren't there any left these days?

It is a conspiracy. Now perhaps if we got the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition of the day on the coat of arms. Could we shoot them?

I live in Adelaide - I could be an Axe Murderer.

Alan

by maxwell edison Jan 26, 2004

.
Some time ago, in the late 60s I think, a law was passed to protect the animal that appears on our Coat of Arms, the bald eagle. It was, at one time, an endangered species, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's no longer on the list. It is, however, still illegal to kill that magnificent bird.

The bald eagle, an appropriate symbol for the Untied States.

http://fotw.vexillum.com/flags/us)coa.html

REMOVE spaces from the pasted URL.

by msamson Jan 27, 2004

Actually, it's not on the global endangered species list... however, the birds' population isn't very healthy in the US... ironically, there are more bald eagles in Canada then anywhere else!!

And we don't shoot our beavers... we just mangle them in traps...

by john_wills Jan 27, 2004

Benjamin Franklin wanted the federal beast/bird to be the turkey, a genuinely American bird. It was already occasionally going in the oven in those days, so the US would, if Franklin had had his way, be eating its emblem at Thanksgiving etc.

by oz_media Jan 27, 2004

British Columbia has the largest gathering of bald eagle on the globe. A few hours from where I live, (Brackendale) there are literally over 3000 bald eagles that all gather in late January at the Brackendale Eagle Reaserve . They must fly thousands of miles across Canada to achieve this feat each year, like a HS Reunion. In my backyard i have several bald eagles that are residents in the trees and last year one had a new family. Vancouver Island is world famous for it's bald eagle population.
How did a Candian resident bird become America's national symbol, yet the American Eagle did't?

In fact the bald eagle is generally a Canadian resident who merely goes to the US Midwest in winter. The Majority of breeding is in Canada and a little Puget Sound USA. http://tinyurl.com/ysw9u

by hal 9000 Jan 27, 2004

But I think it is "Open Season" on pollies all the time or at least it should be. Currently we have a 5 foot 6 inch deaf Prime Minister who only hears what he wants to hear and ignore everything else.

I actually had lunch with him one day many yeras ago and it was a diffictualt conversation to say the least.

I actually like both Emu and Kanagroo but then again my uncle used to own a sheep station a few hours outside of Huenden until 3 years before he died from skin cancer and I spent a lot of time up there when I was young on school holidays.

There is nothing like shooting sheep all day because of a drought and then reloading half the night only to shoot more sheep the next day. We where trying to keep the breading stock alive and as we couldn't get rid of the rest it was more humane to put them down. But it is a heartbreaking exostance after shooting all those sheep it rained and what few where left froze to death overnignt. Taht was the last time I ever went up there as it was too heratbreaking that type of life you where against it most of the time. But I did have some good holidays up there even if the place was so big that you needed to take 2 weeks provissions to go out to one of the far flung paddocks.

I think that all the Lions and Griffins are now exinct in the UK because they have shoot them all and have eaten them a few hundred years ago. Taht at least should be good for a grin.

I may be wrong but I believe that the Bald Eagle is the National Simble of the USA so you could always try asking for a plate of roast Bald Eagle at any restraunt that you go to in the USA. Who knows with the bird ful that is all across Asia at the moment they may have to resort to this bird as a food source as all the chickens might have to be slaughtered. Now think of that instead of KFC we could have KFBE or instead of Red Roster we could have Red Eagle as the favourite fast food places.

Because we live in Australia we are lucky and can be whatever we want to be so an "Axe Murderer" is quite acceptiable particuarly if you only waste pollies and members of the Legal Proffession no one would miss these people one little bit as both of these professions make Used Car Salesmen look honest don't they?

Col

by dc_guy Jan 27, 2004

The bald eagle is recovering nicely. There are numerous populations in widespread locations so it is no longer in serious danger. BTW, the original decline was not due to hunting, but to pesticides in the food chain resulting in non-viable eggshells. Most people don't eat carnivorous warm-blooded animals simply because they taste bad. When we put our minds to it, we Yanks do a too-fabulous job of bringing species back from the brink of extinction. Alligators are now the greatest cause of death to pets in the Southeast. Mountain lions lurk 100 yards from schoolbus stops in the West. Deer have literally taken over the Northeast, they eat gardens down to the soil and cause hundreds of car accidents. Coyotes snatch chihuahuas from crowded, daytime backyard parties in Los Angeles. On the positive side, the wolves reintroduced into the Northwest have culled the elk population, allowing riverside vegetation to grow, bringing back beavers, trout, otters, minks, and in just nine years restored an ecosystem that was thought hopeless.

by oz_media Jan 27, 2004

NO not the song.

If we didn't kill the globe ourselves, we'd be so much better off. We destroyed wildlife, WE destroyed the rivers, streams and oceans, We fished out the waters, We cut down all the trees and WE caused extinction in animals. We build hydrocarbon emitting vehicles and pollute the air, the atmosphere etc. As for global warming, yes I do believe in it but not to the extent it is sold to us. Global warning is a proven fact that has been going on for MANY Millenia, as the earth has warmed and cooled over time creating the ice age etc. It's not speculation, many things such as hydro carbons do destroy the atmosphere, this is also a proven fact. The aerosol sprays DO effect the atmosphere. As for some of the other WHINY aspects of global warming, I think they detract from the truth of what's we are really doing by casting doubt on specific issues and not the real case.

Some would say we are the only intelligent life form in the universe, I certainly hope not for the universe's sake. We NEED to find planets like Mars and see if we can inhabit another because we are killing this one fast.

Animals, will hunt each other and kill for survival. Humans hunt animals too, then go to Piggly Wiggly and stock up on other meat. We then fill our freezers and when they get too full, we clean them out and throw away the dead animals we've stored in case we starved.

The world would be a much better place without the human race.

by oz_media Jan 27, 2004

Well Canada has the maple leaf, yes you can shoot a maple leaf. Unless in a city or ANYWHERE near a CITY, suburb or....well you gotta go WAAAAAY up in the mountains and you can shoot a maple leaf, then again we have pine and fir trees in the mountains, shoot a pine needle, theres marksmanship!

as for the states, stars and stripes! Yes you can shoot the stars, rappers do it all the time.
Stripes, I am assuming that you are allowed to see someone as a criminal (possible stripes) and then shoot him, so yes, we can both shoot our national flag symbols. The American Eagle, well you can't shoot one but I'm sure many do. Beaver? Why would you shoot a beaver, they are WAAAAY to cool to shoot.

Nah we haven't got anything to shoot, except each other and we learned from America that it is not too productive to wipe out your pwn population, plus we get enough on the US channels, there's ALWAYS a mass shooting or some knob holding up a fast food restaurant somewhere.
They like thier guns though, and not even so much for hunting but as protection from American attacks.

In Canada, we have no enemies, other than the US, I sure hope they get enough of our oil, CNG and hydro so they won't attack us too!

We have more guns per capita than the US but use them to hunt in the woilderness and display in out locked gun cabinets, I don't think I've shot mine in at least 10 years.

As for the using political figure as national symbols, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps we would get rid of the idiots due to natural selection.

by john_wills Jan 27, 2004

I think you mean abortuaries.
If there were no state each of us would be entitled to punish those who violated human rights. Someone like Paul Hill, who during September was put to death in Florida for killing an abortionist in Tallahassee during the early 1990s, thought he was in a state of nature with regard to the abortionist. It was the abortionist who was forcing death on innocent children - apparently Paul Hill saved 21 scheduled for that abortionist that day.
Let's talk sense: if the Supreme Court suddenly decided to abolish government protection of the right to life of programmers there would no doubt be a lot of talk to persuade the citizenry of the necessity of a right-to-life amendment, but could we really blame someone who went further by killing hitmen specializing in programmers? What would you say if it had been 21 programmers whom Paul Hill had saved that day? Should the DA not have ignored the matter? Given that the DA did prosecute, should the judge not have acquitted the accused? Given that the judge interpreted the killing of a hitman specializing in programmers to be murder, should Governor Bush not have given the convict a free pardon?

by tomsal Jan 27, 2004

This is in reply to Oz's "I'll Second That Post" because the message level was reached I had to create a new one.

RIGHT ON Oz! I liked that post, and I guess when I think about it - after you went through all the sports...Rugby is pretty tough, I know I got a few blooded noses, some sprains and one time I actually very nearly broke my arm playing it.

As a martial artist myself (1st Dan Black Belt) I appreciate the fact that someone other than my fellow martial artists at my school understand that size isn't everything in a brawl.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions of all time! Give me technique, a clear head under a stressful situation and SPEED over brawn and as long as the numbers are fair on both sides, I take a crack at Mr. Brawny!

;)

I've seen 5 foot nothing 100 pound women demolish 250 pound men standing 6'2 - 6'4" tall.

The biggest thing about size though is sheer intimidation factor and THAT's what gets most people --- they defeat theirself because they see this huge mountain of muscle stepping up.

Control fear in these situations. Embrace it. Then kick a$$!!! :)

Disclaimer: I'm quite peaceful btw, and I try to live a peaceful life. I do not condone beating up people, merely protecting your own life and protecting the ones you love.

by oz_media Jan 27, 2004

You're one of those who feel bigger is better.

But they are usually the first ones to lose in such a situation. It is not a winning mentality, another reason I despise corporate big business that feeds off the country's people and supports the people of some third world country.

by jardinier Feb 4, 2004

I am very pleased that you are a black belt. I most certainly would have studied some form of martial art if they were better known 40 years ago in Australia.

But "fair numbers?" I know a young man who studied Kung Fu for a number of years, and then put aside the martial art bit and focused on the spiritual aspect. "How many attackers could you deal with on your own?" I asked him one day.

Quite casually he replied: "Four."

Another friend of mine who had studied boxing at school and karate later, said he assiduously avoided getting involved in a fight. "Why?" I asked. "Because the last person who took me on ended up spending several months in hospital"

by tomsal Feb 4, 2004

I must say so few people really "get it" about those who train in martial arts. I'm talking real folks not movie stars. I think everyone watches too many movies about fighting. Its not a saying or kidding around I can tell you that me and my martial arts buddies are very much into self awareness and yes....PEACE. Its about being grounded, knowing who you are and what you can do and treating that all with responsibility and respect.

There's a friend I have she picks fun at me all the time about my martial arts --- its ALL in fun of course and we laugh about it... but really, she doesn't get it either.

How many people can I take out....how many are fighting me? You do what you must to survive, when you are outnumbered you cause the damage you can before you are overwhelmed.

But -- never be a punk and look for fights, never be a jerk.

That's basically it.

by guruofdos Jan 27, 2004

>>And we're the best in the world at all the sports that count, like cricket, netball, rugby league and union, AFL, roo shooting, two up
and horse racing.<<

I wasn't going to say anything on the subject but you as an Australian had the brass neck to mention 'Rugby Union' and being 'best in the world' in the same sentence, I can only offer one reply:-

JOHNNY 'BLOODY' WILKINSON!!!

Gave you lot a well deserved bloody nose, didn't he?!!!! For weeks prior to the RWC, the Australian media had mounted an 'anti-Pom' campaign against the England Rugby Squad...even to the point of encouraging Aussies to hang around their hotel making a bloody awful racket so the Pommies couldn't get a decent night's sleep. I ask you! Is that the behaviour of a civilised society? Hee hee!

Anyway, the Webb-Ellis trophy is where is belongs...'Up Over', and for once you lot might just shut t. f. up about the Pommies being crap at sport! Yes...we usually are, and that was Australia's downfall....writing us off before the series even started. I'm putting money on us beating you in the cricket test series this summer too!

by tr_member Jan 27, 2004

:-))))))) They do excel in that, so it is ok I guess. LOL

by hal 9000 Jan 28, 2004

After we learnt it all from the Poms anyway!

Col

by hal 9000 Jan 28, 2004

That we had to let the Pom's win or they would have packed up their Bats and Balls and just gone home never to be seen again.

But serriously I thought that was a great victory by the Pom's who deservied all that they got {in congrats anyway.} That is what makes life interesting isn't it and we all like to see the underdog come out on top just about always.

Come on don't try to tell me that the Pom's where unhappy to see the Aussies win the Americas Cup or as it was originally called the 100 Gunnie Cup that the Yanks virtualy stole from the Poms and then changed the rules so they would remain unbeaten. But using a "Wing Keel" in the Rugby was just too much of an adantage so I did notice that the Pom Captian has retired so he will not have to find himself in the position of defending the cup latter.

Col

by guruofdos Jan 29, 2004

Martin Johnson, our revered (and now honoured by the Queen!) captain has indeed retired from international competition. I guess he decided that there wasn't any worthy competition at an international level...after all if the Poms can beat the Aussies and the French then who else is left?!!

As for the Americas Cup and bending the rules...that reminds me of the classic Kevin Wilson song 'Living Next Door to Alan':

Then Bondie called Ben Lexon and said 'I want a another yacht. Twice as big and twice as fast as the one I already got....that'll fuck 'em!'

So his neighbours called some welfare mob, not to be out done...and got the HMAS Melbourne on some sort of govenment loan.......got me knackered! They just said they wanted to go fishing for yabbies in the river, or something!

by oz_media Jan 27, 2004

I dodn't realize you were there but I do remember 'the scandal'.

Do you remeber Alvin Stardust? He was DREAMY!!!LOL.
Coo Coo I just want you, I really love the things that you do.

I dowloaded it on MP3 a while back for a giggle, can't belive that guy was Top of the Pops when I was little. I guess I owe him some residuals now for downig his MP3. This is the thing I don't accept about blank CD surcharges. They've collected millions in order to support the losses of the aartists but don't know how to distribute it yet. NOw in my case, If I burned My Coo Ka Choo (LOL) on a blank CD, I would have paid a surtax to supoprt the artist from his losses of residual income. Uhhhhhhhh, is he still alive? Now I know Jimmy Hendrix as a foundation set up in his name, but I would doubt the RIAA is handing them the dosh, more like the Backdoor Boys or Limp Dogshit.

by jkaras Jan 27, 2004

John I dont want to get off topic over an issue that cant be proven, its a matter of opinion. You can have your opinion but I shudder at your post.

First we have laws that have to be obeyed regardless of higher authority claims. All will be judged by God (whatever its name is)when we die. WE have to obey man's laws because we know the validity of it's claims and we need to work to correct them since we created them, God or the devil excuses doesnt cut it. People like Paul Hill as you mentioned willfully killed because he believed he was right answering to God not man. He chose to break the law taking anothers life because he decided to play God removing others for his beliefs which made him wrong despite the shall not kill in the commandments. He was never in any danger. He didnt save lives, he took them with his arrogance. It was the woman's decision to abort the fetus, that she has to answer for herself. The clinics operate within the law using the law properly to provide their function. It is the role and responsibility of the people to correct this issue lawfully and not to take the law into their own hands, so no, no politician in their right mind would pardon such an act. It's a schame that people kill their unborn children for whatever reasons. But that is the fault of parents and men who get them pregnant not wanting to handle the responsibility that are so obsessed with their ego that they were a good parent and they were schamed by their daughters actions. It is this reason that millions of women go to extremes to avoid being ostracized whether it is legal or not. To me the parents are horrible making their daughters go to this extreme. Do you think that all these stories of women abandoning their babies and hiding their pregnancies because they are crazy? You or I do not have the right to tell another woman what to do with their body. We have the luxury of watching the pregnancy. The phrase "were pregnant" is false, she is pregnant, we are having a child. It floors me how anti abortionists make the claim that all life is sacred yet condone murdering others in the name of their cause, crusades killed many people in the name of God, to bad some iddiots didnt learn from past mistakes.

by tr_member Jan 28, 2004

Why would somebody (gods or whatever) judge us? Are we some kind of laboratory experimental animals or what?

by john_wills Jan 29, 2004

Perhaps God does not judge us in the sense of condemning us, although from our point of view it must often seem that way. Perhaps he weeps when we so violate the nature he has given us that we are unable to achieve the ends he creates us for. Perhaps we are like programs that can freely put bugs in themselves. Another picture: we are told to build a house and then find that we have built it, with all the faults inherent in skimping and so forth, for ourselves.

by hal 9000 Jan 31, 2004

Hithickers Guide to the Universe we are!

So you're point is?

by john_wills Jan 29, 2004

Now, try turning what you have just written into something about hitmen who specialize in programmers rather than pre-born persons. And, as it happens, Paul Hill apparently DID save 21 lives; but you should not infer from that that I approve of what he did: I am giving no opinion about strategy, tactics or prudence. I think you have the wrong attitude to the nature of the relationship between the state and the person. Please read "Hangwite in Context" in my book Albatross 0-595-19418-4.

by hal 9000 Jan 31, 2004

Paul Hill save 21 lives or just prolong them a few days/weeks?

Sure his actions on the day may have stopped some Surgecial Terminations but did they happen latter?

When you look at his actions I think you will find them to be counterproductive to the Right To Life Movement in General as now all "Right To Life Members" are tared with the same brush.

Think on one of Karl Jung writen statments in the Tibetian Book of the Dead "Life is a Sexually Transimitted Dease with and extremly bad prognosis."

I'm not coming out on either side here but the simple fact of life is that we are going to DIE sometime and I just love these Doctors when they come in and tell me that they just saved my life when in fact they may have prolonged it but the last thing that they have done is "Save" it in any form unless of course I live forever which isn't something that I personally look forward to and I wouldn't thank them if this was to happen.

Col

by dc_guy Jan 28, 2004

Oz says: "The world would be a much better place without the human race." I wonder how he -- excuse me, how the remaining creatures -- would measure that? No Homer, no Shakespeare, no Marlene, no Beatles. Not a place I'd bother to visit if I were an alien exploring the galaxy, to be sure! As Captain Sinclair put it on Babylon Five, some day our sun will go nova and take the Earth with it; all of this will ultimately pass. Thanks to Homo sapiens or its successors, a good bit of our culture as well as quite a few samples of our biosphere will survive in other solar systems we reach. Dolphins, chimpanzees and parrots (pick your favorite second-most intelligent species) won't be able to do that unless they evolve into civiliation builders, in which case they'll surely also invent war, politics, and religion just like we did. ... BTW, it's been recently discovered that a good bit of the global warming that's going on is due to nothing more than cyclical changes in the sun's energy output, a cycle that's been going on for as far back as we can measure with core samples of the planet's surface. Want proof? The Martian ice caps are shrinking too, and there are no internal combustion engines to blame there.

by oz_media Jan 28, 2004

Well I still think the Earth would be better without humans, I'm not saying i would want to be here too, but that we are the main cause of unnatural destruction of the Earth. Animals did fine without us, (in response to the what anilmals should be controled posts). We screwed up thier natural order and as a result find ourselves, protecting, reducing, protecting reducing these poplations that at one time were completely capable of doing so alone.

As for NATURAL global warming, I also stated that was a proven fact, I don't know if you were correcting me or agreeing with me though. We had an ICE age, then it warmed up. The Earth has been warming and cooling naturally for an eternity now. We just HELP it along.

As for "No Homer, no Shakespeare, no Marlene, no Beatles." I agree that the human race has enjoyed such people but again, that doesn't mean the Earth wouldn't be better off without all of us. LIVING on Earth would be boring without them but what if we weren't even here? Earth would be looking much better I'm sure.

by mrbill- Jan 28, 2004

"Earth would be looking much better I'm sure. "

But to what purpose? Is it possible that Earth's only destiny is for man to be here? Is our homeworld just a starting point? Maybe we belong among the stars and we needed to learn from our mistakes on Earth. Perhaps our next homes will benifit from Earths suffering.

Hay, I tired and rambiling. Got to kill 10 more minutes before I can go home. `:]

by john_wills Jan 29, 2004

1. To WHOM would the world look a lot better if we were absent?
2. There was an article in the Economist a week or three ago suggesting that the little ice ages of the second millennium resulted from plagues a couple of decades earlier: hefty fractions of humanity died off and forests grew back to cool the planet. With AIDS in Africa and many other places perhaps we can expect a little ice age around 2050?

by jardinier Feb 4, 2004

It occurred to me many years ago that the vegetable kingdom could survive very nicely without the intervention of humans.

On the other hand, humans are TOTALLY DEPENDENT upon the vegetable kingdom: This kingdom ---

Supplies oxygen for us to breathe,
Absorbs and transmutes carbon monoxide,
Is at the top of the food chain -- I would guess that about half of tne animal species (from insects to elephants) eat only vegetation. So humans use some of the species as a primary source of food.

Can you just image how beautiful the earth would have been without the intervention of humans? Can you see those crystal clear streams; unpolluted rivers and oceans; pure, pure air; no massive clearing of land for production of grain foods; no chopping down trees for firewood (this situation is particularly bad in India); no clearing in the Amazon to cater for the increasing human population; no black rain to kill the forests; no nuclear devices; no spent plutonium rods which have a half life of thousands of years.

Oh yes. The human race is a blight upon the planet.

by hal 9000 Jan 31, 2004

Then What about Star Treck Vogyer where they meet the descindents of a Dinosore race who developed space travel and traveled halfway across out galaxy and setup home in free space.

They where not troubled by anything not even the Borg so the whoe point you are attempting to make is moot isn't it?

Col

by tr_member Jan 28, 2004

:-)))))))))

by guruofdos Jan 28, 2004

Nah....cricket it a bloody tough game played at international level and some of the expressions you will hear in the dressing rooms when England suffer yet another innings defeat at the hands of the Aussies are HARDLY gentlemanly :-0

Now Rugby (named after the English school for gentlemen!) is a brutal game, far tougher than American football by a long streak of weasels piss. I say that because the American game is ten seconds of activity followed by a couple of minutes of farting around while the TV stations show the action replays and the cheerleaders come on and flash their knickers, then another five or six yards dash followed by a 'message from the sponsor' then another bit of poncing around like a bunch of fairies then another replay. It's a very 'bitty' game whereas rugby is solid brutal play and 'cross-country wrestling' for a continuous forty minutes with no stopping, a ten minute break for a pee and a quick smoke, change ends then back on for the other forty. Perhaps a few minutes added on as injury time...then everyone back in the changing room for another quick pee and perhaps a shower and quick change.

From start to finish, virtually continuous hard action, but all over and done with in an hour and a half. Then, rugby players and supporters can get on with the real business of the game, which as everyone knows, is drinking beer and singing lewd songs!

Kick off at 2pm, you are back home by 4.30pm, have your tea and watch a bit of telly, then back down the pub at 6pm for 5 hours solid drinking and letching with the lads re-living, the match in all it's bloody gory detail and comparing scabs and broken noses.

I went to an 'American' football game once...it started at 1pm and we didn't leave until gone 8pm....what a waste of valuable drinking time, and no action or blood to speak of!

by oz_media Jan 29, 2004

Now I got that song going through my head! COuld be worse though, chitty bang bang or something......oh no ! DAMN!

by oz_media Jan 29, 2004

Good point but it hardly detracts from the amount of damage we do that was never done in the past. As soon as we move in to some beautiful uncharted fantasy on the globe, it's all over and done for.

Why do people spend so much money to go on holiday to the Bahanas, Hawaii etc.? Even those places are being ruined and overpopulated now.

This is why I love B.C. so much, it is mainly uninhabited and protected, there are a whole host of marine access parks near my home, kayak in kayak out. You need a special licence to visit or camp in these places and a foresrt dude goes by right behind yo and makes sure there is NO garbage, burned or damaged flora and fauna etc.

For the $20 licence it is worth it, a 20 minute kayak from home to some of the most pristine and uninhabited (bt man) wilderness you can find. Sealions 20 feet away, bald eages everywhere, bears, whales, you name it. practically on your doorstep and NOBODY there to disturb it.

I'll tell you, three days there is more relaxing than 30 days in Cabo.

by hal 9000 Jan 31, 2004

While the Kevin Bloody Wilson song wasn't all there I loved it but it did cut a bit close to the bone as what he said in that song was taken literally as correct by some who see the Native Aussies getting too much of a "Good Deal" when in fact they are only getting a pitince and most of the money is going to the structure. One Native Aussie once told me in a Crowded Shopping centre that ATSIC which is susposed to be the Native Poeples representation and department for allocating funds to the comunites actually stood for "Aboriginals Talking Shit in Camberra."

It was all I could do not to laugh out loud and draw some unwanted attention to myself at that place. But it does show just how ineffective it is and I really believe that there has to be a better way to handle the money that is handed out to these people so they can become self supporting instead of becoming a "Welfare State" within Australia but every attempt to get something started is resisted by ATSIC and all the currently running things that empower our Aboriginies are all self introduced and have never ever recieved any support from the susposed body who is susposed to be supplying them the hope that they require.

Then there are places like Palm Island where the Government has built an Airstrip and roads but at the same time revoked all land ownership on the island so now thay have contact with the outside world and no land that they can call their own.

The really nasty part here is that the land used for this infracture was donated to the Government by a Traditional Owner for the benifit of the rest of the inhabinents and it has resulted in the total colpase of the culture on the Island.

If only we could get it right just once I would be a bloody side happier.

Col

by john_wills Feb 2, 2004

I quite agree that what Paul Hill did may be counterproductive for the human-rights movement, but I was not making comments about strategy or tactics. And it is quite possible the babies did live till term, as it was quite a difference to the next abortuarty and it is reported that for several years there were no abortions in Tallahassee or the neighborhood. One thihg to remember is that a lot of abortions get done at a point in pregnancy where the mother is subject to depression: if she and the baby get through that they may live happily together afterwards, the urge to abort being gone. As for the fact that I am going to die eventually anyway, I know that, but it is nevertheless murder to kill me.

by hal 9000 Feb 3, 2004

What is the position of a woman who has a spontanious miscarrage?

Is that acceptiable or should she feel something is wrong with her and be subject to intervention by whatever authorities are responsible in whatever land where she may live.

Don't get me wrong I'm not for or against Abortion I just would like to try to understand where the line is drawn as the "Right to Life People" claim that it is a child from the moment of conception no matter what.

I on the other hand can see a need for this procedure under certian circumstances like in the case of rape or when an amino is done and shows horrible deforminities in the as yet unborn child which will cause it to suffer and only live for a short time. I can not reconcile these incidences with what I constantly hear from that side of the argument. But then again I do not prentend to know anything about this matter and I do believe that it is up to the indivual to make their own decission and I can not tolerate someone telling me how to live so from that presepctive I could not tolerate any one telling anp person how they should behave outside of the accepted legal parameters.

Col

by john_wills Feb 3, 2004

A spontaneous abortion is an unfortunate but guiltless loss of life. We should try to prevent them, as we should try to prevent traffic accidents and cholera.
There is no more need to kill a prenatal child conceived in rape, or very ugly, than there is to kill a postnatal child conceived in rape, or very ugly. And if someone is going to die pretty soon there is no point in killing him.
To prevent a hitman who specializes in preborn babies fufilling a contract is no more meddling in other people's business than preventing a hitman with some other specialization fulfilling a contract - even if the client happens to be the object's parent.

by oz_media Feb 3, 2004

Yes Colin your theories make sense. Although you claim to have little knowledge of the two sides of this argument, as do I except in one or two cases, you have made a logical conclusion that I agree to whole heartedly.

In the same sense that it is wrong to let a mother decide the destiny of her own child (? wierd but OK I guess) it is also wrong for someone else to determine the destiny such as a ccourt or society.

If she is unable to raise her child, then social services will foster or in the best cases provide adoption services at the taxpayers expense.
Often in both of these cases, the former even moreso, many children turn to crime and drugs as they lose individual attention of a mother.

So have we fixed a problem or created one?

That child then, if turned to the 'dark side', grows to be an alcoholic welfare bum (again sucking up your tax money) gets HIS girlfriend pregnant, she is not supported so the state then takes care of THAT child too and so the circle continues. Now back to the first child/adult, as he has recently ditched his pregnant girlfriend and has lived a life of drigs and crime, he is now an alcoholic, gets in his car, drives to the mall and runs down YOUR wife while she puts the groceries in her trunk, this is not including the nutters who end up just taking a shotgun to the mall for a pissed off at the world shooting spree.

Now I am in NO way sugesting that all foster children are criminals, they do have a major problem with foster children not receiving the needed personal attention and nurturing of a mother and often this results in crime and drugs due to frustration.

Before playing righteous GOD, why not adress the problems these children will face as they mature, instead of just bannig abortion and ignoring the other roblems that they will face through life. Giving someone life is not enough, giving someone a place to grow and learn in a productive manner is. Fix the systems before you pass the laws giving the broken systems control over destiny.

by maecuff Feb 4, 2004

Yes, how can it be wrong to abort a fetus when the conception is the result of rape? How about a 12 -13 year old girl who is raped by her father/uncle/brother or stranger for that matter? I don't think depression over the abortion would be the issue here..I believe the issues would be waaaay beyond that.

by john_wills Feb 4, 2004

Is it right to kill anyone who has a high likelihood of becoming a drug addict? or a criminal?

by oz_media Feb 4, 2004

Like Metallica said "Kill'em all"

by tr_member Feb 4, 2004

...we should judge ourselves. If we can not, then allow the scoeity that we live in to judge us. When I perform an act, and later am shameful of it, I should own the responsibility of that....

Why bother about Gods judging us after death. It is more fruitful to allow our near/dear, kith and kin to judge us.

by tr_member Feb 4, 2004

It is the modern humans that seem to be causing a whole lot of havoc.
When humans were more of forest dwellers and did not have the societies the way we have now, they were known to cause less damage. They gave back to nature what they took from it (without knowing it). It took a whole deal longer to chop wood with axe than with modern electrical saws :-))

The more we evolve, the more we beat the Nature.

by maxwell edison Feb 4, 2004

.
Do you know when it was? The earliest reference I ever saw pointed to massive lead pollution over 2000 years ago. And what about all that water pollution that occurred when the source for drinking water was also the depository for......well, use your imagination. But I guess that's just "giving back to nature".

So are those "modern" humans who cause it living now or 2000 years ago?

Humans - we're worthless. Let's just get rid of all of them (us) so all the little critters of the forest can live in total peace and harmony. After all, the earth was really meant for them, not us.

by oz_media Feb 4, 2004

Although I never folowed through with martial arts to the extent you have, I did study TaiKwonDo, and was into kickboxing for a few years in addition to many years security training.

One thing I found was that during high school, everyone wanted to fight the martial arts guy. As I've said before, if someone sees you as tough or big they will go out of their way to try and take you down a notch. FOrtunately I was also taught when and why to fight so I managed to politely refrain from unwanted fights in school. I would demonstrate technique instead, often getting four or five guys falling over while trying to throw some kicks and forgetting that they wanted to fight. I hung out with a lot of big nasty peolpe and was not the tough guy, but they were all amused at how I could take care of myself when needed (I used to be quite little).

Bottom line, if you CAN fight, you don't need to fight. If you THINK you can fight, you will be proven wrong over and over again.

by tomsal Feb 5, 2004

"Bottom line, if you CAN fight, you don't need to fight. If you THINK you can fight, you will be proven wrong over and over again"

Excellent, simple and true way of putting it bud!

Can't say it more clear than that!

Just like, in more cases than not, its the person who feels they need to talk about bad they are that really isn't nothing at all.

by oz_media Feb 4, 2004

It's usually the people who have never directly been in these situations or had friends and family in such situations that see it as a black and white issue.

I found myself with a pregnant teenage girlfriend in high school, she had my son, we tried to stay together but nobody was wining. We found a mutual agreement, outside the courtroom, had my brother draught a legaly binding contract and have lived happily ever since. Our son is on his own now but could always come to either his mother or myself anytime and did so depending on the nature of his problems. Abortion was available but not considered as we both knew we could provide a home, food, clothing and medical attention as needed. She is a successful CMA and I, well it ws a mess but I've made it now.

Some young people are not as fortunate to have the support and guidance we did, I have a reasonably wealthy family (earned wealth not inherited). Many people are incapable of raising a child, I don't think I did so bad. Many people are out of work and cannot afford a child, I was working full time in sales at age 16.

My point:
Everyone has a different story, to base the rules on a single chapter from ONE story is unfair. If one person feels that am unborn embryo just a few weeks or a month old is a living human being, another may not. If one science proves this is a living person, another will contradict it.

To be so anal as to imply that abortion doctors are not following what THEY feel to be a justified and honorable practice by calling them Contracted Killers or assasins is really backward thinking that belongs in the dark ages.

Let's see how these people feel when their 11 year old daughter is raped by their brother.

by oz_media Feb 4, 2004

"we tried to stay together but nobody was wining. "

Well I tried to wining and dining her but the incessant whining got to me and I realized nobody (mainly our son)was winning.

by oz_media Feb 4, 2004

Everytime I check my recent discussions, i see the titke and start hummin gthe Pat Bentar tune!

Now she was a hottie in her own leather clad way and I danced as well as DJ'd her music in the 80's. But nearly 20 years later, she has to be put to rest.

Perhaps for future posts, you could refrain from using old song lyrics.:-)

Thanks for your attention to this annoying matter,
OzMedia

by jardinier Feb 5, 2004

It was just your comment: "as long as the numbers are fair on both sides" which seemed inappropriate.

It was the TV series "Kung Fu" starring David Carradine which gave me my first awareness of martial arts. I was already fully aware of Buddhist and Taoist philosophy and the Shaolin order, as presented in the TV series, seemed to be a melding of both spiritual branches.

I used to say, and I will say it again: I received more spiritual insight from any one episode of "Kung Fu" than I would have in 52 Sunday sermons in a church.

It so happens that Colin Luck has studied under a Shaolin monk in Queensland, and he calls himself a Buddhist. If you study his postings, you will see that he practises what he has been taught. He is actually one of the nicest people I have "never met" (because we live in different cities). He is humble, polite, generous -- handles without complaint all the disasters of everyday living.

On census forms I usually insert "Hindu" or "Taoist" as my religion.

About a year ago I met a Chinese Buddhist nun. I know five words of Mandarin, and her English vocabulary wasn't much better. However we exchanged emails translated by a friend of hers, and have kept in regular touch. She is not into martial arts as far as I know, but has come to Australia to teach Buddhist meditation. When she has sufficient English, I have agreed to help her write a book comparing Chritianity and Buddhism.

Well she attended English classes all last year, and out of the blue I received a phone call from her saying she would like to see me. We each have pocket translators, and tomorrow is the big event.

So once again, I most definitely "get it."

by tomsal Feb 5, 2004

Great post.

Btw, that was my poor writing that I must apologize for, I wasn't "meaning" YOU as a specific person didn't "get it"..I was trying to generalize. But I re-read my own post and saw how poorly I wrote that sentiment down.

So my apologies there.

Excellent though...Its nice to actually talk on this topic to people who have experience and understand what I mean.

cool!

by john_wills Feb 5, 2004

How can it be wrong to kill a programmer who was conceived in rape? As a general rule, the innocent should not be punished, the guilty should. The innocent should not be punished for the convenience of other innocent people. I myself do, as it happens, have some experience with hard cases, and it is not my feelings I should follow but my thoughts. Almost every abortionist in the U.S. is qualified in medicine, and knows the relevant biology, so we CAN figure out what he thinks to be right, although we cannot in general figure out his feelings.

by dghaus Feb 5, 2004

Why is it ironic that there are more bald
eagles in Canada? There is more of
everything there except americans.

by maxwell edison Feb 5, 2004

.
First of all, whoever it was that stated, unequivocally, that there are more bald eagles in Canada than in the United States should provide some sort of source for that assertion. Not a direct link, necessarily, but at least a passing reference to some sort of authority. I'm not disagreeing, per se, but I won't accept it as a matter fact either.

Moreover, the bald eagle is a migratory bird. How many bald eagles might have their summer home in Canada and maintain a winter home in USA? Take the Canadian geese, for instance (PLEASE, take them!), they spend the summer in Canada, but come winter, they all - ALL TEN MILLION OF THEM - spend their days pooping in the park in my neighborhood. (I will admit, however, that I love to let my Golden Retriever loose to chase those ducks outta' there. )

So if someone wants to take the time to look into it......

by hal 9000 Feb 5, 2004

What you are trying to say above is that a horribly deformed Feotus should be allowed to go full term and then live a short painful life.

Is that correct?

If that is what you are saying then why do we treat our animials better than we treat ourselves? After all a "Responsible" pet owner wouldn't heisitate to have one of their beloved pets put down if there was something wrong with it and the same applies to any offspring. As a dog breeder I've had to make those hard choices and every time I've come down on the side of what is less painful for the animial. Even though in one case it meant the loss of 20 years of breading stock and all the work involved with it which while heart breaking was no where near as haert breaking as seeing the animial suffer unnecessarly.

Col

by hal 9000 Feb 5, 2004

An enquiry into child abuse while in the care of the state and it was found to be a rampant problem. That only consumed 12 Million AU Dollars to te3ll everyone what we already knew, well the half way educated ones anyway and not the Social Workers in the industry who kept placing these children into these positions as they where helping the se children. I will not prentend to uinderstand this at all but they where doing what was best for the children in their opinion but I'm dammed if I can see how it is in the best interests of the child to be abused either sexually or physcially.

Col

by maecuff Feb 5, 2004

For the convenience of the innocence? I hardly think forcing a child to have a child that had been forced on her could be called a mere inconvenience. And as far as calling abortion murder..that is YOUR definition. Murder is illegal.

108 replies

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