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What's good and what is right?

By voldar ·
Since almost a week, I started to ask myself about that. I read all the comments on every lately threads, and still, the answer is far from my sight.
Everyone blame/crucify/make verdicts on someone or something.
The problem is not about "what is good" and "what is right" to do, but WHO is the one who judges these two things.

I ask myself this question because in a lot of cases, what seams right for some, is the total oposit for others. And this is the whole story about. As long as we'll not be able to UNDERSTAND the others, we will never be able to move over this isue.

I am not talking here about the americans or the arabs, the black people or the white or the red or, name you whatever "color" people may have (as for myself I don't give a dime for such of things, we are all human beings).
The history shows us that without a strong character and a high degree of conscience of each of one of the "comunity", nothing can end in "peace".
I remember a "scene" where an english general told to his major to stop killing american people, innocent people, because after the war, these people will be their trading partners. I also remember another "scene" when a great roman general was killed by the acolits because he wanted too much to make peace with the enemy and save the empire. I might ask, who's right and who's wrong? Someone who wanted to spare lifes thinking that he'll be reach in short time after the war, or the general that wanted the peace to keep the empire, and in the same time, to have other nations in slavery? And I can give you a lot more examples about how simple "acting" in a way or another can be seen as good or bad, depending on "what/which side of the barricade" you are.
That does not mean that you don't have to act at all!! In contrary, what I say is to act, but before acting, have as much data as you can about the facts, make a decision and act in total "knowledge" of what will be AFTER your acting.

Nowadays, in the day life, in IT for example, when someone brakes your security on your network, you want him and hunt him down, looking for making that person "disapear from site". What is the difference between you and the others you blame then? (I mean, in the end, someone hurts, and maybe will look for revenge)

As someone says very well, this is human nature, self defence and revenge, the Thalion law ("an eye for an eye") is still here, deep down into us, and you can't hide or escape to it. But you can always refrain it "making surface", blowing away your "happy" life.

So, to end here, (not a great and coherent thread though), I would like to know your oppinion about this WHO.

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"Desiderata"

by jardinier In reply to What's good and what is r ...

"As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all people. Speak your truth quietly and clearly .... " (Desiderata).

"This above all: to thine own self be true, for it follows as the night follows the day, thou cans't then be false to no man." (Shakespeare, I think).

Right and wrong; good and evil are always relative in this mortal world. However consider the following observation by Confucius:

"The inferior man lives according to a set of rules.
"The superior man decides what is right for the moment."

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Re "Desiderata"

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to "Desiderata"

Jules it was written by Maxwell Erman a British Banker in the late 30's I think but as I don't presently have that book of poems handy I'm not sure exactly when he wrote it.

However it was originally thought to be unnamed as at the time it was not considered as correct for a banker to write poetry so it was only after Maxwell's retirement from the banking industry that some more of his writings became available.

Now for the original posting Voldar the winner makes the decisions so the "WHO" is actually the country who eventually wins {in this case the war in Iraq} but it is a sad fact of history that we only ever get to see one side and never the full story as the vanquished are just not believed.

Col

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this is ALWAYS relative

by Deadly Ernest In reply to What's good and what is r ...

What is right and what is good is decided by every individual on each instance based on their world view, culture, ethnic background, ethical/ moral training/background, education/training, and experience. In the past it has been right, morasl and good to eat the enemy dead, it is not so now, maybe again in the future. Wanton killing of citizens of enemy states used to be the right and good thing to do, it is not accepted as such today. This is clearly a case of 'horses for courses'. Some cultures see small cash payments to govt employees as bribery and wrong others see it as part of the job and an entitlement.

But the best simple baseline determination on what is right is summed up in the phrase 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

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THE HUMAN KIND

by FluxIt In reply to What's good and what is r ...

Vladolar, you bring up many good points. You mentioned revenge (Eye for an Eye). You mentioned relevantism. You mentioned character. You mentioned sovereignty and gave a case of computer hacking.

The bottom line up front is principles make the difference between right and wrong. So you ask what principles? Let me take you through some thoughts.

Let's go back to about 1750 BC when Hammuarbi code was written. You can find reference to it in the Bible at Exodus 21:24. Anyhow, The code was administered with penalties based on social class and placed immense value on material life. People were not treated as equals.

Fast forward to about 1325 BC, a set of laws were commanded that were absolute and gave no credit to social class. They protected community (humans are social creatures) and were known to be the first "Bill of Rights" better known as the 10 commandments.

Since that time many documents have been organized based on principles to govern mankind and societies to include the Magna Carta and many Constitutions.

We have seen in our lives that humans have the capability today to destroy the Earth several times over or obliterate entire societies of people from a land. Some have tried. However, if we value human life and desire to live with the people, to cultivate the land, have them participate in a expanding economies then we must be able to win the hearts and minds of those people that are allied against us.

During the Cold War the United States and Russia had a standoff. Russia had a philosophy that the only way to defeat the United States was undermine principles not conduct nuclear or conventional warfare. The US philosophy was to create situations of standoff which ultimately pointed to Mutually Assured Destruction, MAD.

During the standoff, Russia infiltrated the US's open society with aggitators that influenced and permeated into our government. Beginning in the 1950's we began to see its efforts in our Courts with an increase in Athiestic movements. It is my belief that thier efforts have reached throughout the world where ever the US had influence contributing to some of todays complex issues.

You ask who is right. It is those who aspire to the principles such as all humans are created equal. Humans have a right to life. Humans have a right to security in thier homes, persons, and property. Humans have the right to worship thier God. Humans have the right to pursue freedom.

Coincidentally, these principles common to most men are found in the Judeo-Christian Bible.

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INFORMATION OPERATIONS

by FluxIt In reply to What's good and what is r ...

One of the reasons for the confusion between right and wrong is the employment of information operations by opposing forces to sway the opinion of the public at large.

Some are not very mature at this and appear obvious or even corny. A bad marketing campaign has this effect. Others are quite sophisticated and range from innuendo to in-your-face type approaches.

Let us take for an outlandish example the incidence at Abu Ghriab Prison in Iraq of prisoner abuse. The US has an agenda of Jun 30, 2004 to begin self-government in Iraq but is plagued with increasing attacks, civil disobedience, and needs to flush out community leaders (good and bad) as well as demonstrate to the people how democracy works as opposed to other governments.

They come up with this plan to sexually humiliate prisoners by a white cigarette smoking woman who laughs at the size of thier genetials among other spooky things in the Arab world. It gets on TV news. This is a really scary thing to Arabs and they respond with protest flushing out the leaders and troublemakers in the communities. For the US to target and isolate. Meanwhile, many who are causing civil disobedience are scared because it ain't peaches and cream (or may be but not how they want it) if they get caught. At the same time, it is spun by responsible leadership that this is how Democracy deals with deviants.

The point is that cause and the motives behind information may not always be evident and things are often distorted for somekind of gain. Usually, the first one out with it wins.

Yet behind all of the noise is the truth and the truth is always founded on principles. Sometimes we have to dig for the truth.

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That depends

by JimHM In reply to What's good and what is r ...

Who's right / who's wrong / what's good / what's bad - That all depends on your value system that you grew up with and were taught. To some the bombing and muder of 3,000 people in a tower was a good thing - to others it was bad - to some that was right - to others that was wrong.

I believe the major problem with this is the religous right wing extremest - Muslin, Christian, Jewish - which ever - in their small minds - their beliefs is the only correct and right way, any others need to be converted or die. Look back in history with the christians and the catholic church - there have a few nasty things - now we have the muslins -

Religon is the belief in a superior power - their church and bibles were written by man!

But if you follow one simple rule that your mother taught you - every thing would be better. "Treat others and you want them to treat you!" - Hum - works for me.

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