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Which degree for me?

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by emj 2 views

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121 replies

by emj

your opinion, misguided as it may be, is also welcome. In re-reading your postings, I find it interesting that you think these are jokes, and I post only to get my jollies. I can assure you, this is not the case, I think that my posts have not only enlightened me, but have also assisted others who are feeling the same as I am. It's nice to know that we are not alone in all of this, and there is a forum where thoughts and ideas (and yes, dreams) can be shared. Have a wonderful day!

:)

by sleepin'dawg

I just thought it was a shame for someone of obvious sincerity and intelligence to be expending
thought and effort on one who is so lacking in drive, focus and ambition but what the heck it's your call. I might have had a bad day but when I jumped on her but it was apparent (to me at least) that this individual is just killing time and has no real intent to pursue a diploma, never mind a degree. Last month it was a business,this month it's furthering education and perhaps next month she will be thanking her gang but do we think computer graphics holds any possibilities. There are lots of people who come to these forums sincerely in search of assistance or guidance and it is a shame to pass them by to waste time on someone I suspect not only doesn't need help or want it. All her communications are pleasant with a breezy and ingratiating chattiness that just started to ring false but then again maybe it's just me. If she proves me wrong I will be the first to appologize but until then I stand by my
judgement which over the years has seldom if ever failed me. By the way your answer was good, I just thought it wasted.

by dinotech

...she had already stated why she didn't have her degree after three colleges. One of the reasons was a lack of motivation. We are all human, and our character is what defines us to other people. Granted, your point about her not being motivated to pursue a degree might be true, but what it seems to me is someone who is in need of support. When you post your experiences about people without drive or ambition, your preaching to the choir and I think EMJ has about enough need for criticism as she does another bill to pay.

What we all like to do here is to support anyone who needs it. You cannot tell immediately if they are a waste of time, and I stand by the Biblical principle of forgiveness seven times seven: if a person continues to make the same mistake seven times, he or she will make the same mistake seventy times seven.

But I see the motivation in EMJ because she has taken her first courses toward her degree. I can also understand the frustration on your part where you have seen people waste your time and theirs. Being an owner or manager of seven businesses in a global economy isn't easy and time is of the essence.

My advice to you is to choose your conversations. Your initial posts were great, but now you have implied your experience on your posts and have painted EMJ's character as someone you have seen before. This isn't healthy because there are people who have been unemployed for a long time - which is emotional to begin with - and really need people to talk to. So what if it sounds chatty? This is a forum sleeping dog, and unless they are seeking your services privately, it shouldn't bother you that people are willing to chat with others. It only costs you a few minutes of your time and its your choice to post.

by vltiii

I suspect that part of that she is in this place is because she surrounds herself with people that keep telling her everything will be OK. NO, I don't know her personally, but just reading the initial post was enough to get an idea of her personality. Any of us that have experienced interactions with other humans develop some understanding of humanity. Based on her own acknowledged patter thus far the chances of her completing this evdeavor or no greater than the others that she undertook. I'm all for posting words of encouragement, but I'm also for pointing out a problem where I believe one truly exist. The bottom line is that she doesn't know you (I'm assuming) or me. If the people in her life have not been able to influence her, chances are you won't be able to either. With that said I do respect you attempt to try encourage her, I'm only trying to point out that is not always the best approach.

by sleepin'dawg

Doesn't that make you feel all warm and runny inside? Yet in the next breath she is telling you you're mistaken about her and then she takes a swipe at me, which, of course, is to be expected. Well at least it shows a little gumption; who knows, maybe there is some substance there which I'm not seeing. Look at it objectively.
1: Age 39??? some people have been known to fudge this.
2: In 21(?) years she has been in "3 universites"
and not completed any degree. No mention of any credits acquired but if there are, can they be transferred?
I do so hope she completed high school and is not counting on eequivalency to make up the short fall.
3: She left or was laid off from a job of 10+ years. The implication being the job was in IT. Now I assume this wasn't the only job she's had but after 10+ years you would expect her to have a bit firmer idea of where she's come from and where she wants to go. Here's something in passing: Last week an application with a resume crossed my desk. The resume claimed 3 1/2 years in the IT dept of a major company plus familiarity with all the usual MS apps and some mention of hardware familiarity. Checking it out I found out the 3 1/2 years in IT was as the telephone receptionist for the IT boss and according to him she knew where the "on" button was and where the "any" key was located. This really has nothing to do with EMJ but after you've done a bit of hiring and firing you start to see certain traits which are indicative of an individual's character and ambition and because the firing part of the equation is so unpleasant you learn to obey your instincts to avoid that scenario. Another little aside; anyone who enjoys terminating people is a pretty poor excuse for a human being.
4: She's been all over the map and been very indecisive about what she wants and that is my point until she decides what she wants and commits
to it she'll still be waiting for her "eyes to be opened so as to explore the possibilities that life can bring" her. By 40 she should know the possibilities and stop waiting for life to bring them to her but rather go out, pick one and go for it.
An unpleasant thought just occurred to me. Years ago when I was reasonably new to management, or at least the hiring/firing part, I had to dismiss
someone not for being incompetent or unpleasant but the very exact opposite. The company I was with at the time had hired this very pleasant and personable person several years before I arrived on the scene. She was a receptionist and her duties were not particalarly taxing or onerous but
whatever they were she performed them flawlessly and extremely pleasantly. She would go through the department every morning stopping to say hello to all and sundry and often with a box of homemade cookies. This believe it or not was the problem and I was the dirty bas*ard who was given the job of solving the "problem". Milly, as we'll call her, would stop and chat telling us of her kids, her car problems and how about our kids and isn't it just a beautiful day and aren't these flowers pretty and are you sure you wouldn't like a coffee with your cookie and oh look who's here to see you and wouldn't he like a cookie and some coffee and my doesn't he look smart in that new suit and why don't you ask so and so in personnel to the company banquet. I think you get the idea. You would think this would effect her work but no; given a letter to type, she'd be back in a few minutes with it and usually error free. She was a one man delaying obstruction and all tha talks and warnings just rolled off her back and she would continue as before. Efforts to be serious with her would result in her eyes tearing up and her promise to try and do better.You would end up feeling like a beast but the fact still remained she was costing us almost 60+ hours/wk which on an individual basis was barely a 1/2 hour per person if that but at the end of a month you had lost 240 - 245 hours and you would have to ask several people to put in overtime just to stay even. Fortunately a solution presented itself and it offered more money and although we would miss her but we didn't want to stand in her way. I must have handled okay because I still get a Christmas card from her every year and for that matter I send her one but without a doubt she was the most difficult person to fire because she was too pleasant and good at what she did. She was unintentionally the most disruptive influence I have ever had to deal with and for whatever its worth EMJ reminds me somewhat of Milly.

by emj

my thank you was aimed squarely at you, sleeping dog. And again, you posted yet another message about me, based upon assumptions. You don't know me, don't know my employment history, and if you truly did read and comprehend my postings, you'd get the answers you were seeking with regard to my credits and the fact I had already transferred them, and that I am starting school in the Fall. Your eyes (or your mind?) must be going old man, get them checked. In response to your Milly comment we had a woman where I worked just like that, but, sorry to burst yet another bias bubble of yours, she was not me. Layoffs are a given in this economy, especially in the field I am in, so it's understandable I'm seeking other alternatives. I will probably always be looking for opportunities, stretching my mind as it were, and yes, making a living from it. I also have a retirement plan, a Roth IRA, as well as some very shrewd investments. This is enough from me. If you wish to continue this tirade against me, you'll do it alone.

by sleepin'dawg

I knew it! The age reference get's em every time; either that or listening to their arteries hardening. Well EMJ - now we're starting to see the real you and guess what??? There might be hope for you yet! Investments and a Roth? A 401(K)
as well perhaps? Hmmmm??? It's almost enough to make my image of you human. Before, there wasn't enough insulin in the world to deal with that load of sugar. So now that we have your attention, maybe we can talk and then you might understand.
In what I like to refer to as the digital world as opposed to what I shall call the analog world you are or should be familiar with the phrase 24/7
It, of course, refers to the pedantic fact that there are 24 hours in a day and 7 of those in a week. Thank God it stops there or we'd be hearing references to the number of weeks in a month and/or months in a year, ad nauseam. It seems to indicate, that like it or not, we are all wage slaves whose souls are in thrall to the all powerful companies. A pause here, while we admire the literary allusions. Now let us condsider the 24. That can be divided by 3; the first 8 of which, all things being normal, we tend to spend asleep. The next 8 hours are spent, working and the final 8 hours are supposedly our own but we usually lose 2 of those prepping ourselve and running to and from work. Note, I am speaking in averages not hard numbers here. We get 2 out of the 7 days and under normal circumstances they are ours to do with as we please but the bottom line is we spend approximately 40 hours plus 10 running back and forth all for what purpose??? A drum roll here please; ta-da, TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF THE OTHER 118 HOURS of our little humdrum existences. You have hit 39 having spent 33 of those years either in school or working. You are here now, hat in hand,so to speak asking what you should be doing with your life? And of course the brutal,nasty, mean, crusty old, emphasis on the old here, dog has pooped or piddled all over your metaphorical carpet.
With the medical arts evolving slowly but surely into medical science you probably have another 40+ years in front of you and quite possibly more.
The questions you should be asking are not what degrees you should take but why you would give a damn about what anyone thinks. I am going to use a cliche here and as you know cliches become so because they are true. The cliche is,"If you keep doing what you have always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got." Back in your original posting about a computer support business
I thought you had seen the light and had decided to make a grab at independence. In short you were tired of being prey and wanted to join the predators. There are really only two classes of people predators or prey, takers or taken and if you want to break away to independence your chances will be better with the former rather than the latter. I have a hobby which has developed into a sideline. For the past 10 -12 years I have gone out 6 - 8 times/year to give seminars on exactly what we are talking about hear; how to be in business for yourself. Notice its not about how to start your own business or what kind of business but it often amounts to the same thing. Last year my smallest audience was 97 and the largest 285. We charge a minimum, depending on the part of the country, of$525 - $895 but we do offer special rates for couples. For this they get a cocktail party usually on Friday night but sometimes on Sunday nights depending on my schedule, a 3 ring binder with all the necessary notes, a pen and a cap or mug. All that and they get to hear me and my dog and pony show. Do the math and I think you will be impressed by the numbers. By the way all fees are up front and non-refundable which in all the time I've been doing this nobody has ever asked for. I guess I'm entertaining enough to make it seem worthwhile. When the economy is up the audiences are smaller and when its down the audiences can be uncomfortably large. One year I had two over 600. The average runs around 260 and the average fee $765. The strange thing is if you dropped into
my local pub you could probably pump it out of me for free. Lately I've been thinking of chucking it in because I've started questioning the ethics of it. I know that fewer than 5% are going to try and apply my ideas and of those less than 2 or 3 will be still at it after a year, making a living from it. Out of those perhaps 1 possibly 2 will break through to the mid six figures but after all this time how many are applying my main idea, "Love what you're doing and you'll never work a day in your life." What bothers me is that I have been back to a few locations two or three times and not only do I get repeat clients but some of them have even started bringing their kids. There is a special for wives but not for kids. Hell, I'm no Tony Robins, so what is it with these people? They all claim they are inspired but if they were why, at these prices, do they keep coming back. I have heard on good authority that the great one himself asks the same question and according to those sources is no closer to an answer than me. Maybe it's a new form of family entertainment or God forbid, religion.
So we get back to poor little EMJ who has been used and abused by the ol' dog's tirades. I am not, surprise, surprise, trying to discourage you. Far from it. I am trying to inspire in you a level of entrepreneurship which will make the next 40+ years more liberated and fun. It's On a plaque in my office "Screw 'em all, if they can't take a joke." Never work for anyone or any company
but rather work with the people at the company. Yes there will be people in charge but as I keep telling my associates that is the way I want them to think. I do not nor do I want to own them. As a consequence our turn over is almost nil. I may not be famous and I wouldn't want to be, notorious
though is an entirely different matter.O;)

by dinotech

My post about dream stealers was slated for sleeping dog, EMJ. I support you 100% in what you are doing because I am in a similar position. What irritated me is that people assume that if you spend time talking about what you want to do, you are wasting time. However, there is a serious emotional need for people to know what others think. That is why forums are popular; they allow free thoughts to roam and people to respond. If sleeping dog expects you to be a waste of time, then he should have stopped posting. But he continued and was really direct in his posts about your character. You cannot tell a persons character by what he or she writes; that may or may not be the strong point of their character. It certainly is not the only point of character. So, EMJ, drop me a line if you have any questions. I hope to hear from you. ;-)

by emj

if I posted in response to you, my response would have been indented under yours. Mine was on the same level, but indented under sleeping dog's. :)

I appreciate your postings, Dino Tech, and even your defense of me, though it was not necessary (I'm a big girl, I can defend myself). ;)

I just interviewed for and got offered a job today, so everything is falling into place, as I knew it would. I know that the positive energies from this board were a help during this emotionally trying time in my life.

I wish you all the best, Dino Tech, and hope that things work out for you too!

by sleepin'dawg

Wander over to the management forum. I've posted a problem I'm having and in the spirit of getting as good as I give feel, free to have at it. It's a real problem not only for myself but others in a similar position. I am always interested in constructive criticism ;)> and as a big boy can handle most but as you will soon see, not everything.

by dinotech

What was I thinking...busy at work and trying to post quickly I guess! As far as defending you, I was hoping to support you instead. But do keep in touch; I need to start networking with others in the IT field.

by sunnytwo

Good for you! I agree that getting that piece of paper will be a great accomplishment.

I finally completed my BS in Business Administration with an emphasis in Information Systems (in other universities it is called an MIS degree, or so I was told by our Dean of the business college) at the age of 49. I don't regret it for a minute. It gave me new ways to look at a problem and broadened my knowledge of business.

As someone else posted, you will be more competitive in the job market. In response to those that think getting certifications will do the trick, more business people are looking not only for the IT skills, but also how to combine them with business principles to solve problems.

What ever you do, don't let anyone get you down. I had plenty of nay-sayers when I quit a good job to go back to college full time.

by eyoung

EMJ:

I agree with many here who have advised you to find where your interest lies and then get the degree. 90% of the battle is in finishing.

Your post caught my attention because it shows a dilemma of techy vs. not-so-techy or management that I'm finding many are facing. I run into it at the Bachelor's level (I'm a program director at a college)with both traditional on campus students and non-traditional, older on campus and online students, at the Master's level (we have a more management-focused degree for people with tech skills) and at the PhD level (I'm in an online program with Capella University).

I'll give you the same advice I give my students and my peers.

1. Know your learning strengths. If you are self-directed and committed to learning, than an online degree program can work for you. If you need face-to-face interaction, then you will want to be in the classroom.

2. Know your interests. Do you want to dive deep into the programming or do you want to be the one making the strategy decisions on how the organization will use the technology? Do you see yourself as a person who can work between both areas and speak the language of programmers AND management?

3. Be clear about your goals. Is it to just get that piece of paper? Is it a way to further your growth and experience in a particular area? Do you want to change career paths completely? All of these need to be taken into consideration.

Once you have answered these three questions, you'll find that there are degree options out there for you. Many in this thread have already talked about the tech degrees. There are also quite a few out there that aren't as techy and are more strategy focused -- or those that mix the two.

If you are looking to move away from the deep tech space, you might want to look at degrees in e-Business or Managing Information Technology. e-Business is more prevalent at the Masters level, as is the Managing Information Technology. There are a few e-Business Bachelor's degrees -- Phoenix has one, as does my college and I believe there are several others that do as well. Most of these are in the online space.

Places that will list out different schools by major options include:

Worldwide Learn
Allbusinessschools.com
Degreeematch
Classes USA
Petersons

Please note that these are paid placement services, but it is a good place to see who the schools are. Once you see them, I highly recommend you visit their websites to get as much information as possible as you make your decision.

I wish you luck -- and encourage you to finish your degree. There are exciting things going on in the health field and lots of opportunity. One Vermont company you might want to explore further is IDX -- they build technology infrastructure for hospitals. Also the President's new initiative on technology records keeping in health care may prove helpful for you as well.

Sincerely,

Elaine Young
Program Director, Marketing
Assistant Program Director e-Business Management
Champlain College

by vltiii

I don't think he was attacking you or your post. However, you would think that by the time we reach 39 years of age we would have accountability and responsibility for our own lives. That's what growing up and becoming and adult is all about. Life does happen, but all too often it's influenced by the decisions we make. One who has enrolled into school three times and not completed anything is more likely a victim of their own lack of initiative, motivation, etc. We can conjure up many excuses for not doing something, but those that want...go out and do. It's unlikely that any amount of coaching is going to change that and not all help comes in the form of assistance. Sometimes help comes in the form of being blunt, telling it like it is, or withholding assistance in order for the recipient to face reality.

by vltiii

Congratulations on getting into school and the job prospect. I think you'll find that most people that think getting a degree is a waste of time don't have theirs and are clearly biased or just uninformed. Sure, some can be very successful without a degree, but they are the exception and not the rule (except in the entertainment industry). Earning a degree opens up more doors to opportunities and certainly presents you in a more favorable manner.

by emj

Go back and re-read all your replies, pick an emotion and stick with it, will ya? ;)

Believe you me, in response to your posting about me looking to others to build me up and support me, you're way off. I've lived a very independent life (and still do even though I'm married). I have worked steadily since I was 19 years old, and even created a nice little career for myself, until the bottom fell out this past year. Yes, I attended three schools, received credits from all three, but didn't know what I wanted to major in at the time. Now I know better, and have taken the steps necessary to FINISH what I had started long ago.

I have never asked for anything of anyone, and the one time I do, I am basically told I'm a gold-digging airhead with delusions of grandeur. Just yesterday I was told that I come across (in person) as a down to earth, realistic, responsible and impressive interviewee. It's almost impossible for the electronic form of someone's personality to capture the true essence of the person behind the screen. I put a great deal of thought into everything I do, and have found these forums to be effective methods of getting feedback from relevant and like-minded individuals. If responsees choose to cheer me on is not my doing, but what they chose to do.

Not everyone will like what I have to say, and will have differing perseptions, which I can respect. What I question though, is if I am so transparent, why have only you and sleeping dog seen fit to post negative (and in your case, mixed) remarks?

I like to think I inspire food for thought, and open up discussions beneficial for all. :)

by vltiii

Who's perception of reality should he be using? Is your perception of reality based on someone elses views? What makes you right and him wrong? Up until you mentioned seeing EMJ in the VARBusiness 500 solution I thought that you were a sincere poster. Now I think otherwise. You have nothing to base that thought on. She hasn't even started the business nor does she really know what exactly she will do. Based on her history it's unlikely that she will even finish school. Who is being unrealistic now?

by vltiii

Just because it hasn't caught up to him now, doesn't mean that it won't catch up to him later. Why would an employer want you anyway with questionable ethics?

by husp1

Look at this load of drivel. My God do you realy expect the entire world to swallow this load of tripe without a little more sugar? The reason that EMJ posted this was to get a answer to her question not a self promotion from a very shortsighted person. altho I too think that EMJ should look over her credentials and track record I have no other inclinations on her lifestyle. Perhaps you should devote the energy and hot air your blowin and go for a long vacation at a nice resort I know in a little town called LIFE!!!

by starat300

I was impressed, with ur sincerity, a woman, 10years, much to read and advance a career;ask yourself; will it bring me a long term satification? Will I be able to contribute to the body of knowledge in this field? What are the forseeable shortcoming? What are the benefits? Can I bear the cost, with my present and future circumstances? Will I be able to write a book on this? If your answers are yes to most of these questions, pray, and go to college to study that which you love,

All the best EMJ

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