Community archive

Ask something
Discussion Locked

Why are all the gurus Asian?

0 helpful
201 replies

by jeffhunta

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.
Is it just me or are all the gurus Asian?

201 replies

by jamesrl

Did you mean religious Gurus, technical gurus - what?

Its probably just you.

James

by jamesrl

I know lots of gurus who are non asian. Depends on who you consider a guru.

Is Bill Gates a guru - once upon a time he was a real hard core tech- not sure if you would define him as one now.

The Apple gang - well Steve Jobs and most of the gang were white. Guy Kawasaki may have asian name and genetics, but he sure is American (hi Guy!). I interviewed him about 17 years ago.

Guess I am still unsure of your premise. Are you saying people of a certain race, or country of origin, or both?

James

by jdclyde

Maybe you just need to get out of your moms basement more often?

While you haven't stated where you live, in the US you will find the Asian "guru" to be in the minority. That is why even though many companies have outsourced tech support to india, if you get past them to level two support you get someone in the US that actually knows what they are talking about.

by m_a_r_k

[i]"Is it just me or are all the gurus Asian?"[/i]

Is it just me or are all the world's idiots in TR?

by m_a_r_k

that doesn't mean that all of them are not here in TR. Ever heard of the concept of "set theory"? The ones on other sites are all a subset of the ones here.

by charliespencer

"He's teaching us a better way."

"Cover of the Rolling Stone"
Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show

Hey funta, where do you live, how many gurus do you know, and how many are Asian? Do you have any hard numbers to back up your perceptions? Surely you don't consider the guys who answer 1-800 numbers as gurus?

(There's a "straight line" there; somebody please pick it up.)

by jrod86

Gurus are also in the martial arts. I knew a Filipino guru, a French Guru, an American Guru. But none of them were Hindu spiritual leaders, they just knew how to put the smack down.

Why must we generalize and then specify everything as black and white? It's just not so.

by montgomery gator

..the term for the master is Sensei,not Guru.

And it is true not everything is black and white. Those classifications don't work for Asians. :-)

by apotheon

I've been called a "guru"! That must mean I'm Asian, which means I can get preferential treatment by way of affirmative action programs, scholarships, and government grants! You just made my whole life better!

Of course, of all the tech "gurus" I've ever met (numbering in the hundreds -- I just hang out with computer geeks a lot), maybe two were of Asian descent, as far as I could tell. Maybe we're all just Asian on the [b]inside[/b], and we're pretending to be European-descended whities so we can [b]take over the world[/b]! Yeah, that must be it.

Maybe you're somewhere out in left field, and don't know what the hell you're talking about.

by montgomery gator

Asians get discriminated against in "Affirmative Action" programs just like people of European ancestry. There was a big stink in California not too long ago about people of Asian ancestry losing out to "minorities" with lower scores because of "Affirmative Action" programs.

I might be able to claim Asian ancestry if I go back far enough. I am part Celt, and the Celts supposedly were from central Asia originally. Graves of people with red hair, plaid clothing, and Celtic style artwork have been found in western China that date back over 2000 years. The desert environment preserved the bodies and cloth.

by jamesrl

The truth is anyone of us who claim ancestry from any Celtic traditional lands (Ireland, Scotland, Wales, parts of Spain etc) are more likely to be a dogs breakfast of interwoven heritages. Scots and Irish have Celtic, Viking (also red hair), Anglo Saxon, Norman, Pict and potentially a whole lot of other things in their ancestry.

My National Georgraphic history of the Celts(many years ago) said they were for a time nomadic and many became mercenaries who travelled far for work.

The Scotti were a tribe from Ireland(Ulster area) who uprooted over time and settled in Scotland, but there was always back and forth between eastern Ireland and the western Scottish isles. Lowland scots generally have lots of intermixing with the various english races.

My ancesters were uprooted from Scotland during the Clearances, went to Ulster for a time, then came to Canada. As they settled in a predominantly scottish settled area(places names like Campbellford, Burnbrae, Tweed) my father's family tree is exclusively scottish names.

As for affirmative action, we don't have such a thing in Canada. There have been specific hiring quotas, notably in the civil service, but no comprehensive legislative framework. But on the other hand we didn't have Jim Crow either.

James

by jdclyde

I have had many shirts ruined by my dessert, not the other way around!

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get syrup out of a white shirt? Now I have to go get some "Calgon" to get it clean! Ancient Chinese secret, remember? ;)

by dc guy

All of the Indo-European tribes migrated out from the region that is now Georgia, Azerbaijan, etc. That means if you're Celtic, Nordic, etc., you're Asian.

Of course everyone is really of African origin because all humans are descended from people who migrated out of Africa.

by maecuff

tells me that when I have a little too much to drink that my 'caintuck' comes out..

by maecuff

Perhaps you can explain something to me... is saying that people are being played liked violins anything at all like being a 'hater'?

by m_a_r_k

You're both 2 weeks late and $2 short. We already had a "y'all" discussion about rednecks. If TR can keep their servers running long enough, you can filter through all the old discussions and maybe you'll find it. Or maybe you won't. I can't be absolutely sure. And there is already a discussion going on about absolutivity, too, in case you were wondering.

by jeffhunta

Mae, I am beginning to think that you never smile.
OK. So I really don't think that all the gurus are Asian. That is a ridiculous statement.
I was trying to spark some sort of discussion on racial profiling or racism in the work place. A legitimate topic, I think even you would agree to that.
Sure! I could have phrased it differently, but but where's the fun in that. Besides I think most people are getting the idea.

by apotheon

"[i]Besides I think most people are getting the idea.[/i]"
That you're an idiot? I don't know if you [b]are[/b] an idiot, but that troll of yours was idiotic.

by charliespencer

Did y'all mean tuh say "fiddle"? Don' go comin' 'round heah tawking 'bout yer fancy-schmancy "violin". Wha's a matta wich chew, boy?

by maecuff

me for someone with a penis. I've been called many things, but am not usually mistaken for a boy. :)

by jdclyde

and heartless of you.

You make Klan members look like boy scouts!

Everyone knows that violins are just one step up from bagpipes! (shudder)

How do you face yourself everyday?

(your still turning me on!) ]:)

by jdclyde

Roll out the barrel!

We'll have a barrel of fun!

Rooolll out the baarrrrellll!

blah blah blah blahblah blah blah.....

(you had that one coming!)

by jdclyde

is what I like about you.

Right to the point, cut through all the crap.

"Just the facts ma'am".

by jdclyde

wasn't nice at all! (you still smiling?)

As for the polka, a huge part of Michigan is of Polish/German decent so there are lots of polkas and lots of beer fests!

Either way, it doesn't make this guy any less of an a$$wipe. From the looks of this post, that is how he gets his jollies. Start a flaming post and watch people get worked up into a frenzy.

It looks like the majority here saw right through him though.

Keep in mind, this is the same sad sack from the "Why is IT nearly all male?" that questioned with "Maybe women just aren't smart enough".

I know, you haven't forgotten, but others here might not have placed him or seen him for exactly what he is.

Not exactly what I concider adding anything to the quality of the TR discussions.

by maecuff

hence the whole violin thing. He's TRYING to get people to bite. Of course, if you do, then you're being thin skinned and can't take a joke. It's like I said elsewhere, don't take your passive aggressive hostility and try to hide it behind a joke. Have the balls to stand behind what you say.

Of course I'm still smiling. Although, I do feel a small amount of pity for you and your whole 'jazz' fixation. I'm pretty sure there are support groups available.

by montgomery gator

I can claim English, Celtic, Danish, and French ancestry. And the Celtic part is mixed, with Lowland Scots, Cornish, and a wee bit of Irish.

And of course, the Lowland Scots, Cornish, and Irish are also mixed themselves as you describe. My Lowland Scots ancestors are probably the Scotti you describe, since they are from Southwestern Scotland, from what used to be the ancient kingdom of Dalraida (the Dalrymples).

I guess I am a Northern European mixed-breed. More English than anything else, but even that is less than 50% of my background.

by surflover

Just about everyone has noted it's you... Posting an ethnocentric flame bait topic in TR is probably not the least intelligent thing I have ever witnessed, but I have seen some REALLY stupid things in my nearly 1/2 century on this planet...

*** to all those who've read is comments in the other threads and lowered themselves as I did to respond to this... check his profile and note his contacts and who counts him... wanna guess the numbers?

(and they're an absolute) :^O

by maecuff

And with each post, I tell myself, don't do it...don't reply. I just can't help myself. It's an illness. I think there may be a support group, though. :)

by jdclyde

His that is, gripped firmly and give a good tug!

Posting along what an id10t someone is, is very different than byting the bait and getting hooked into a flamebait war with other members.

This clown has been outted.

by charliespencer

It's been a slow week, and it's a better diversion than the old "Linux vs. Windows" debate. Besides, I don't think I've posted a straight answer in this thread yet.

by apotheon

Dude, why would anyone use Linux? More people use Windows. That makes it better.

by jdclyde

when it takes a woman to tell a man to have some balls! :^O

But you have already shown you have more of whatever having balls is supose to mean than he does.

Maybe this is Lobo's little brother? Or Sister?

Kind of funny Oz never jumped on him in the last discussion for being an idiot?

Oh, thats right, he DID!

BWAAHAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAA!

Dumb people make me laugh....... B-)

by maecuff

Sorry about the whole jazz thing. I'm sure that technically it's all very impressive. Not very listenable, but impressive.

Okay..and remember, this is coming from someone who still listens to the Sex Pistols, so what the hell do I know?

by surflover

very "listenable" (I like that word BTW, will have to add it to my dictionary :^O)...

you're about a decade after me I guess (music trends wise)... I never could make the transition from rock to disco (although earth wind and fire was very talented)... the sex pistol and their genre never caught me either... so during that era, I started listening to Jazz, pop stuff at first, then more traditional... it's easy for an artist to appreciate (my avocation), but I cant stand the conceptual jazz (I guess you have to be a juliard trained musician to appreciate it... but then again, even as a MOMA trained artist, I could never understand the value of conceptual art either)...

by jdclyde

that and looking at "his" posts in the whole two discussions that he took place in doesn't win any points either.

by why me worry?

This entire discussion is pointless and will turn into nothing more than a copycat Yahoo Discussion Board full of stupid racist comments and idiotic stereotypical remarks.

by dc guy

All together now:

The DALAI Lama is an international Buddhist leader.

A DALI llama is a South American camel painted in a surrealist style.

by jdclyde

to get into the sex pistols..... :O

Just like in rock and metal, there is good and bad.

How can one NOT like at least SOME Miles Davis?

Listenable, indeed!

by jdgretz

Here I am late to get my reply in - at least somebody was thinking along the same lines as was I. At least he's good for comic relief.

by jrod86

In Japanese martial art, Sensei may be the appropriate term for a teacher, but not a master. Guru in the Filipino martial arts is the equivelant of Sensei in Japan.

by jck

I think you're a bit misled, perhaps by the surroundings you have. I've worked in IT/programming departments as small as 2 people and as large as 120+. None of them have been overly "Asian", or even having high Asian content.

Now I can tell you that even years ago, there was a huge influx of people from India and the Middle East into the database world of IT. They are still today prevalent in that regiment of IT today.

However, I think a stereotype that drives this misperceptioon is the "Asians are naturally smarter than other ethnicities" belief.

I think that probably the contributing factor to Asian peoples achieving higher scholastically (and perhaps leading to higher technical achievements) in America is that their cultural standard has not deteriorated with the norm in this country in the past two decades.

Asian households tend to be more disciplined, children are taught still to respect their elders at a very young age, they are taught they must earn what they get, etc.

In many other ethnic groups of American society, this premise for life achievement has slipped away in large part due to the need for parents to both work and the children not receiving the full-time guidance and oversight necessary to instill these values in children.

Most of the Asian families I know who do have both parents working often will have one parent in a job that allows their child to come after school to their workplace, and then they will have their child sit down and begin doing homework until their shift is done. Others I know make the choice to live by simpler means so that one parent can stay home and be with their children as soon as they arrive home.

I think their seeming smarter or being "all the gurus" is more in part to their cultural upbringing and being taught to be regimented and work harder for what they want, rather than genetic predisposition to having more convolusions on their brain.

But, I don't see all gurus being Asian. In fact at my current job, none of the people in the various IT and IS departments that I know of are of any Asian descent (about 30 people).

by jdclyde

People here are being told they don't NEED to be respectful or work hard.

They are victoms, and it isn't their fault and there is little they can do to change this.

Values, we are also constantly hearing people (like you) about not pushing values on other people.

too bad people here in America are not held to a higher value standard. The less you expect out of someone, the less you will get.

The parents that both work so they can afford the big house and multiple cars/toys are committing child neglect.
The parents that both work to just get by are doing what it takes to get through.

by jamesrl

I come from an area of Ontario with a large proportion of South Asians(as people from India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka group themselves).

What I see is not based on the whole culture, but the attitudes of some, generally more recent immigrants. Many of these immigrants didn't come here for a higher quality of life but for educational opportunities for their kids.

These families push their kids to excel. They do the work. They take advantage of every opportunity for learning (as we all should).

This attitude doesn't necessarily pass down to the next generation. By the 3rd generation, the kids behave much like the kids from other cultures.

So I agree with jd's premise that it isnt anything to do with genetics, its a cultural thing, and in my area, I see a corelation with recent immigrants. Good on them - they work hard and achieve something.

James

by jck

it's one thing not to push them on another adult...

it's another to instill ethics through discipline and example on your child in your own home.

and I agree...not paying attention to your kid just so you can work that extra to get the bonus that takes you and the wife to aruba while the kid sits home with a nanny is neglectful...and abusive.

by bellyboy

...some real commentary. I was beginning to think that TR was only for the arrogant, self-righteous and pessimistic.
Surely this thread was based on the sterotype that asians are considered smater. Not a bad stereotype if you ask me. :)
By the way, I am Asian and not a guru. I do agree with your point about the difference in upbringing to an extent. I was raised in a predominantly white neighborhood and was 1 out the 5 asian kids in a high school of 3000 students. Most of my childhood friends are white.
Even as a kid I noticed the different "freedoms" that most of my friends were given compared to me. My parents held me to a higher standard that C's weren't good enough where other kids' parents seemed happy that they even passed. Not only that, but it seemed that most kids back them thought that being stupid was cool and getting good grades was only for nerds.
I'm not saying that this is true for all of the kids in school, but definitely the majority.
That being said, though, I think times are changing and that many American kids realize early on that a good education is the key to success in today's market. You see many more kids going to college after high school and many more college grads continuing on with MBA's and such.

by alangeek

Face it guys, it's 'cuz we Asians are brilliant! And IT here where I work is crawling with them, numbering in the hundreds!

by m_a_r_k

and I'm a guru. :D

Ya know, "guru" is a funny sounding word. It sounds Buddhist or something.

by jamesrl

To a certain extent, replying to trolls is a rite of passage. It isn't only newbies that do it, but newbies tend to jump quicker into the frey, and their outrage seems to be higher. Over time you learn.

I don't know if any of you are fans of Snopes - www.snopes.com. When I started reading alt.folklore.urban in 1993 (yes really, no typo), I fell into the classic trap of biting on well baited hook from snopes. It was a classic tradition to bait Canadians, dispite, or even because of the fact that there was a disproportionate amount of "hats"(long time posters in the inner circle) from Canada. I reacted then much differently than I reacted to Funta. A few "hats" sent me some private email and tried to let me down easy and let me in on the ongoing joke.

Snopes had no hatred of Canada or Canadians - his wife and some of his best freinds were Canadians. He was making fun in a way of Canadians earnestness and lack of humour about themselves.

I don't take Funta's post in exactly the same spirit -I would suggest its more micheveous than playful. But some of the reactions are natural. If it wasn't you, it would be someone else.

James

by jdgretz

They were fun - some still are - rec.aviation.homebuilt is still one of my favorites.

Compuserve used to have some very nice discussions before they were purchased by AOL. Unfortunately most of the better discussions moved to USENET and we lost some of the better discussion tools. Oh well, progress...

by jdclyde

That is exactly what makes it so funny!

I will do the same thing to people I grew up with that started having kids MUCH younger than I did. They are now grandparents while my kids are only 13 so I tell them "Sure am glad I'm not old enough to be a grandparent!"

by m_a_r_k

We posted the exact same message about 2 seconds apart. Mine came first. You copied me. You're not a guru, Mr. ITJunker. A guru wouldn't have the need to copy like you blatantly did. :D

by surflover

he probably couldn't read yours through the dark glasses in the dim room he was typing from... (after all, he is a junkie)... :^O

by maecuff

My stepdaughter and her husband are making noises about having a kid. And while technically, I wouldn't be a grandmother, you know the kid will CALL me grandma. As much as I would love to have a new baby in the family, I can't get my head around the whole 'grandma' thing. How can I be a grandmother?? I am waaay to young for that..

by m_a_r_k

That's the most thought-provoking, eloquent, hit-'em-between-the-eyes post I've ever read here! :D

by tink!

I think guru is simply a term of respect that people use to refer to someone who knows more than them. Is especially used in the technical fields.

I've been called a guru by friends and co-workers, but it doesn't mean I'm a master of my trade. I just know a lot more than they do. lol.
Tink
PS - I'm asian and a female...I cover both of the most recent hot minority topics. =-)

by m_a_r_k

I'll tell you...

[i][b]gu?ru [/b]
1) Hinduism & Tibetan Buddhism. A personal spiritual teacher.
2a) A teacher and guide in spiritual and philosophical matters.
2b) A trusted counselor and adviser; a mentor.
3a) A recognized leader in a field: the guru of high finance.
3b) An acknowledged and influential advocate, as of a movement or idea: ?In a culture that worships slimness, he was the Guru of Lean?.[/i]

by tink!

I'd have looked it up myself. but thanks anyway.
and FYI my nickname "Tink" is short for Tinkerick..acquired from High school stage crew, not "Tinkerbell".
Tink

by Member 25348569

I checked with a couple of Indian colleagues and they disagree but both reckon that the word comes from Sanskrit and so into the modern Hindi, Bengali and Gujarati used in India.

They both agree that the word guru means teacher in Sanskrit and originated from Hindu referencing Vidya (knowledge) and the imparter of knowledge.

The word either comes from sanskrit "gru", literally meaning heavy, weighty or from a derfinition of a guru as a "dispeller of darkness", 'gu' meaning darkness, and 'ru' meaning dispeller.

I like the second one but - what do I know.

Either way, most gurus are Asian. In fact they are mostly Indian and mostly Hindu.

by jdclyde

there is always NANA.

Just as long as they don't go with "Granny", you will be just fine! ;\

Glad I am YOUNG enough to not have to worry about that for a LONG time! :^O

told by boys the other day that girls have cooties, but I don't think they bought it. :(

by jdclyde

are much easier to follow than the good ones.

When the kids see all the other boys and girls out "having fun", they decide that is what they should be doing as well.

Too bad we don't look at them working hard and say that is what we should be doing.

Can you believe some people are actually thing that the teachers union is a good thing? They are DIRECTLY responsible for the dismal shape that the US public educational system is so bad.

by jck

jdclyde,

Saying the teacher's union is directly responsible for the downfall of the public education system is like saying that police unions are the reason for crime in America's cities.

How do you think the teacher's union can adversely affect the politics, set the budgets, or make the decisions in America's public schools??

Those rules and laws are established by courts, school boards, and the like....not a teacher's union.

Teachers are lucky to have a union. Otherwise, they'd probably still be making $15,000 a year.

If teachers had their way, they'd probably choose to make decent money and get their school supplies paid for first. As it is, teachers often have to buy supplies out of their own pocket for kids to do projects in class because the school boards are too busy paying superintendents and other administrators $100k+ per year for doing practically nothing other than meet and talk.

I guess you'll tell me next that the teachers chose low pay and to have to pay for supplies too? That they chose to stop corporal punishment? That they advocated kids bringing guns to school?

Get real...Dubya and Slick Willie had more to do with the downfall of education in the past 15 years than any teachers' organization.

The real cause for schools going to hell are two things:

a) Political correctness
b) Lousy parents

Hand in hand, those two have caused a decline in the standards more than anything...not a bunch of teachers grouping together to try and keep a decent standard of pay and a safe working environment for themselves.

by tink!

All my rebuttals are meant in the nicest of ways. I'm really a sweet person..but that doesn't necessarily come across in a typed post!
Tink

by Member 25348569

In my time at TR, I have been chewed out by Maxwell (frequently), Dawg [b]and[/b] Oz. Tinkerbelle doesn't frighten me!

:D

p.s. Anyway, I supplied the Etymolgy. I would quote some words from the Upanishads but that would be showing off! :)