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Will Iraq ever achieve stability ...

By jardinier ·
without the permanent presence of a large number of occupying troops, presumably mostly from the US?

Please note. As promised earlier, I will not make any adverse comments on the leaders of any nations until such time as they make some new move or policy which invites comment.

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Maybe someday

by Aldanatech In reply to Will Iraq ever achieve st ...

I think that will be accomplished someday but any time soon so don't hold you breath. Keep in mind that the planning for winning this war was fairly okay, but they failed miserably for winning the peace, and the administration is not pointing out any clear plan for this either. In the mean time, more American soldiers and innocent Iraqis are dying out there, which increases the chances of a future civil war.

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If Good Fences Make Good Neighbors...

by admin In reply to Will Iraq ever achieve st ...

Good borders make good countries. Iraq will never achieve lasting peace as it's borders were not set up to make good neighbors. The factions that make up Iraq are too far apart in ideology and belief to bring unification in a way everyone there can live with.

It would be much easier to merge The United States, Canada and Mexico than to ever bring about a unified Iraq IMO.

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I don't know about that

by ProtiusX In reply to If Good Fences Make Good ...

I have no problem with Mexico - they have good food and culture. What could the Canadians bring to the table? ;o) Just kidding you guys!

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There were several articles recently

by JamesRL In reply to I don't know about that

about either massive immigration from the US to Canada as a result of the election results, or having a the northern states who vote democrat merge with Canada.

There are socologists who have basically extrapolated that Albertans and Montanans are more alike than Albertans and Ontarians. And Ontarians and New Yorkers are more alike...etc.

Apparently the web traffic from the US to the Canadian gov't immigration website has gone up from 20,000 hits a day to over 100,000.

All of this is covered in the major newpapers - so google away if you are interested.

James

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Sooner or later

by ProtiusX In reply to Will Iraq ever achieve st ...

Iraq is one of many Arabic countries of which none has ever known a democratic form of government. The concept is as foreign to them as baseball and hot dogs. I must say that I would not have attempted to enforce a specific form of government on the area. I would have approached the different ethnic factions in the area and asked them to join together in a loose confederacy and divided the region along ethnic lines and then got the heck out of dodge. I know that some of my detractors will scoff at the division of Iraq based along ethnic lines but this is something the Arab nations know and are comfortable with. Divisions along family lines are deeply engrained into the people in that region and would have prevented blood shed.
With that said I do believe that Iraq will one day be a reasonably safe place to live for Iraqi and Arab peoples. This will only be achieved once the political and ideological battles have been decided in the area. One must ask ones self ?why are the combatants in the area fighting as they do?? I think it is clear that there is a large force of non-Iraqi Muslim extremists in the area that are using Iraq as a battle ground to hurt the US. Their hatred of us will not stop once we?ve left the area as the new Iraqi government is seen as being a puppet to the US. If this government is to succeed it will do so only on the backs of Iraqi?s that are sick and tired of extremist ideology. One can look at Iraq as a model of our country during our revolution. During that time the ideas of freedom and democracy where vague and foreign to us as well.

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Not how the US got its start

by DelbertPGH In reply to Sooner or later

American ideas of freedom and democracy were actually pretty well developed during our revolution. Unlike Iran, we had a common law tradition that grew out of English everyday life, and we had been largely self-governing, with legislatures running for a long time... in the case of Virginia, for 150 years.

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You are correct

by ProtiusX In reply to Not how the US got its st ...

My analogy (if not all together a good one) was intended to point out that this area of the world and these groups of people have not known of Democracy before. They are closely aligned by family and tribal lines and hold to a traditional mistrust of anything western and new. I believe it to be a mistake to impose on them a form of government that they do not wish for themselves.
That is not to say that I disagree with our actions in Iraq to date. I am merely suggesting (for the sake of this forum) that we could have done things differently once we took Saddam from power.

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Just a thought.

by CorTech In reply to Sooner or later

In the Middle East, religious and ethnic factions have been fighting for centuries. I agree that our ideas of democracy are as foreign to their way of thinking, as their ideals are to us.
I don't think real stability, as we define it, will ever exist. It doesn't seem to be in their nature. (No ethnic stereotyping intended) But, if the Iraqi people would or could stand up to the fanaticals they might have a chance of some sort of peace.

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Perhaps your right

by ProtiusX In reply to Just a thought.

A good point and well said.

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Not if the US stays for too long

by DelbertPGH In reply to Will Iraq ever achieve st ...

Right now Iraq's stability depends on the US stomping down the insurgency. But to succeed, it has to be done right, and done fast.

We are already hated by a large and growing fraction of the Iraqi population. At some point, every hundred insurgents killed will be replaced by more than a hundred new ones, and once that begins, it will be impossible for us to leave cleanly.

Of course, if we screw up the counter-insurgency, and then don't recognize the time to leave, we could be there fighting fruitlessly for many years. At the end of which, we leave like we left Viet Nam, tail between our legs, and a government collapsing behind us.

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