Will Vista Outlast Xp?

If for no other reason than Microsoft will eventually discontinue support for XP. This will happen before they discontinue support for Vista.

Vista isn't dead, it just isn't being installed much. Many corporate environments don't install an MS product until the first service pack is released. In Vista's case that will be later this year. Also, there isn't much software yet that requires the Vista operating system, so there's little reason for those running XP to abandon it. And there are those dropping MS completely and looking at other operating systems. These are probably coming at the expense of both XP and Vista, since they're replacing the former but not with the latter.

Many have the same attitude you do, about patching XP and waiting another couple years for the Vista successor. That won't change MS's timetable for product support and lifespans.

Vista will be supported for at least two years after they drop XP. That's my definition of "outlast", but yours may differ.

Vista, who knows, but I suspect it'll have about the same lifespan as ME (~4 years). I also suspect it'll have about the same install base. That is people buying new machines with Windows installed and getting Vista, but corporations not switching over any time soon.

Most corporations I've talked to have no plans to deploy Vista until a number of things are fixed...many of them revolve around apps and security, but also include things like machine specs and functionality within their current infrastructure.

I expect that SP1 will make or break the corporate decision to move to Vista.

Lack of handling the CDs will lead to approximately zero "wear and tear" on the installation media. Accordingly, other things being equal, whenever consumers dispose of our XP CDs, their disintegration will be further along than that of Vista CDs, so whenever they arrive at the landfill to begin very slowly degrading at the same average rate under the same average conditions, Vista will outlast XP.

It isn't a direct answer to your question, but I think you can infer from it my response to your actual question.

yogi_bear_2k2: [i]Do you techys out there think there is any real point Up/Down grading to Vista?[/i]

>Do you techys out there think there is any real point Up/Down grading to Vista?

At this point, there aren't any real compelling reasons to upgrade. The new GUI looks cool. It is more secure than XP. But other than that, there isn't much that absolutely requires Vista at this point.

>Vista, as it stands, is dead.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dead." Millions of people are using Vista now. Based on the stats I see from the web sites I support, more people have Vista than Macs and Linux combined.

>What with most people going back to XP after using Vista.

Most people? Again, I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the US, "most people" who have Vista are quite happy with it. You really can't judge anything by the posts in this forum, because this forum is dominated by a handful of Linux trolls who like to make things up and distort reality.

>XP has been extremely stable for me

XP is a very good OS. Until software and hardware vendors start coming out with products designed to take advantage of the new features in Vista, XP will still remain popular. On the other hand, if you like the new interface in Vista, or if you like the idea of having the added security features of Vista, or if you just like to play with the latest version of the OS, there is no reason not to upgrade. Most software and hardware vendors have come out with drivers and software updates for their current products to make them Vista compatible. The handful of minor bugs in Vista have mostly been fixed by the updates MS has released. Vista performs well on a modern, reasonably powerful computer.

Rick

>I agree with his point as well, but he was a little harsh in saying all the Linux users are trolls who distort reality.

I think what I really said was:

"You really can't judge anything by the posts in this forum, because this forum is dominated by a handful of Linux trolls who like to make things up and distort reality."

A "handful" is not the same as "all Linux users."

Rick

but there really are people out there with Vista (and XP, and even Millenium) that are perfectly happy with them.

My point isn't that Vista doesn't have problems. My point is simply that satisfied users of any product don't post in forums as often as dissatisfied ones. That's why I think rick is correct when he says you can't judge based on forum posts, but I disagree with his opinion that TR is dominated by a clique of Penguinistas.

"I'm too dumb to figure it out, so I'll just drop it in the shredder..."

Rick

[i]>What with most people going back to XP after using Vista.

Most people? Again, I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the US, "most people" who have Vista are quite happy with it. You really can't judge anything by the posts in this forum, because this forum is dominated by a handful of [b]Linux trolls[/b] who like to [b]make things up and distort reality[/b].[/i]

If you want me to take back "hallucinated," you first take back "Linux trolls" and "make things up and distort reality," which is the essence of a hallucination. Then, we can talk rationally about how you [u]know[/u] that "'most people' who have Vista are quite happy with it," in contrast to merely content or not furious enough to post publicly.

I think you have unreasonably extrapolated the opinions of everybody who has not stated any opinion from the mere fact that the number of complaints is finite. It's certainly true that we do not know the opinions of people who have not stated an opinion. Assuming they're all "quite happy with it" is not supported by the absence of data.

Microsoft needs money and that means they will soon discontinue support of our beloved XP. So we all will have to eventually upgrade to Vista or Vienna, like it or not.

Vista has made inroads with home PCs, but its still not a good idea to deploy in a networked business environment. We have no plans this year at my company to deploy Vista. It just doesn't play well with all of our other network applications and infrastructure.

I think XP is great for now. Maybe in a couple of years I might upgrade to Vista. But, maybe, Vienna waits for me.

AV

And you will lose your man card, Palmetto. The first thing I learned about men is that reading the instructions is verboten.

Unfortunately, in the wonderful world of computing, there aren't many instructions available until you can get the thing up and running. Then you are able to access the "help" feature and hopefully figure out how to make the silly thing work. But short of a book about the OS, and possibly an A+ teaching guide, you won't get far if you are Joe User and it doesn't work out of the box.

Both your point and Paul's are valid. It isn't a case of not wanting to learn. It is a case of acknowledging that the lion's share of computing consumers out there are not the same as us. They are not geeks. They don't care HOW it works, they care THAT it works. And if they become frustrated, they are more likely to return the hardware and get something that doesn't frustrate them. Or seek other similar avenues. They don't necessarily want to know how to make the machine do what they want. They just want the machine to do it.

Whole new way to think. Back in the day, if you read the instructions you were in IT. Nothing really changed.

Edit- I made a boo-boo

as has been said already, Vista will most likely see a longer support schedule from MS. In the case of Win2K, they extended it because nobody wanted XP at first (we'll pretend ME was not released, as I am sure MS wisheds too.

O played with Xp but stuck with 2K until my notebook died and was pretty much left with no choice but to get Vista Pro in a new book.

I have played with various versions of Vista and found that, unless in an OEM box, it was pretty dodgy dur to BIOS and hardware configurations.

The notebook I have now, runs like a top with Vista, I have had no software compatibilitiy issues and it is pretty damn quick (it's still not like Win2K pro though,which is a rocket when tweaked).

Compared to my XP experiences, which i undertook grudgingly, this Vista install is excellent, very stable, quick and quite robust.

[i]"if Preparation H gave you "viruses" of any kind, would you take it?"[/i]

No, but it is supposed to be relief for swollen veins in the anus. Side effects are Stinging in the area of application (ouch), skin rash in the area of application (scitchy scratchy) as well as some less common but far more severe side effects.

Abnormal Heart Rhythm
Dizzy
Abnormal Trouble Sleeping
Excessive Sweating
Involuntary Quivering
Loss of Skin Color
Head Pain (no sir, it's not a decongestant!)
Fast Heartbeat
Nervous
Irritation of the Rectum

I dunno, besides the heart issues, I think the key (and most common side effect) is irritaion of the rectum, uh, isn't that exactly what it is supposed to ease.

So a product with a possibility of NOT DOING WHAT IT IS INTENDED FOR, written right on the tube, has become the most popular selling product of its kind. Does PrepH have a monopoly on haemorrhoid cremes? No, there are other choices but people choose PrepH due to marketing strength, even though there are risks and it may actually cause what it is intended ot relieve.

So to answer your question: [i]"if Preparation H gave you "viruses" of any kind, would you take it?"[/i]

Well personally no, I don't have that issue to deal with...yet, but millions of others do everyday.

There are side effects and dangers to most medications we take, yet because we feel we need them, we buy them and take the risk. Some people suffer the adverse effects to the most common cold remedies, but they STILL take them in hope.

The only reason MS has a pseudo monopoly, is because consures lkike their products. If something else was better, easier to use and more efficient, people would change.

Take MAC for instance, people who [i]choose[/i] MAC are often those who suffered viruses or instability from Windows (often old versions that they finally had to move up from) and decided to make a change, and a change was available to them because MS doe not actually have a monopoly, they are just the mlost favoured worldwide, regardless of techs who have found other solutions for daily computing.

Just because one company has had greater sales and marketing success on a wide scale, this doesn't give them a monopoly, people's CHOICES have been toward MS though. Not that I agree with it as a preferred choice, but that's the way it is.

It says I've reached my maximum message level, so I can't reply directly to the post this is intended to go to.

My first question is, why does there have to be a "fire" to jump into? Why does it have to be that on these TR forums, you have to expect childish behavior, insults and personal attacks when you say something that certain other people don't want to hear? All the other forums/message boards/etc., that I frequent are not like this. Maybe it's because the other groups are moderated, and the moderators are quick to boot the children who can't play nice with others?

Now, having said that, let me point out that I have two teenagers myself. I have plenty of experience with "taking the heat" of childish behavior. So it is not a question of whether or not I can "take the heat." It's more a question of whether I want to waste my time dealing with other children when I could better spend my time doing things with my own children.

>If you want me to take back "hallucinated,"

I don't care if you take it back or not. You can think what you want of me. If you want to show that you have something intelligent to say, you'll steer away from the insults and stick to meaningful discussion. If not, that is your choice.

>you first take back "Linux trolls" and "make things up and distort reality," which is the essence of a hallucination.

Why should I take that back? There ARE people on this forum who are Linux trolls. They make things up and distort reality, by making up claims that "Vista has no drivers at all," etc. You were there in the previous discussion I am refering to. If you have any memory at all, surely you remember what I am talking about. If not, I have provided the link to the previous discussion to help refresh your memory. And if anyone was hallucinating, it was the trolls who were posting the crap, it wasn't me.

>Then, we can talk rationally about how you know that "'most people' who have Vista are quite happy with it," in contrast to merely content or not furious enough to post publicly.

I can see already that you are going to start nit-picking over the definition of "quite happy" vs. "perfectly happy" vs. "merely content," etc. To make you happy, I'll change my comment to "most people are not unhappy with Vista." How's that?

Now, why do I believe this is true? Well, I know a number of friends, family, clients, etc., who have Vista and every one of them says they "love" Vista. They love the pretty new interface. They think it looks cool. They're not techinical people, so they go for things like that. The key point though, is that they are able to use Vista to do what they want to do and it is not "broken." It doesn't have "no drivers at all." It is not "a security nightmare." It is not any of the ridiculous things the trolls claim.

I realize the people I know personally is a rather small sample, so next I will turn to the stats from the web sites I run. Here I see that the number of Vista users is close to 10% of the number of XP users. The number of Vista users is roughly 3x the number of Mac users, and about 15x the number of Linux users. I know that doesn't prove anything about how happy the Vista users are, but it shows that there are clearly a large number of people using Vista. So from that, I think it is fair to assume that Vista at least "works" for a very large number of people, clearly disproving the absurd claims that "Vista doesn't work," or that Vista is a "steaming pile of..." It also disproves the position that "most people wipe it out and revert to XP."

I won't even bother to mention Microsoft sales figures, etc., because I already know what you think of that. But walk into any Best Buy or Circuit City or any other store that sells PCs and what do you see? Shelves full of computers running Vista... and people walking out the door with new computers that have Vista. Do you really expect anyone to believe that the majority of those computers get returned? Or that the average Joe computer buyer really knows how to wipe Vista off his new computer and re-install XP? Or that all these millions of people suffer in silent misery because they can't use their new computer at all because it has Vista and Vista is just plain unusable?

>I think you have unreasonably extrapolated the opinions of everybody who has not stated any opinion from the mere fact that the number of complaints is finite.

And I think you'll always say things like that about my opinions because my opinions are different from yours.

>It's certainly true that we do not know the opinions of people who have not stated an opinion. Assuming they're all "quite happy with it" is not supported by the absence of data.

No, I certainly do not have the data to prove that my opinion is anything more than my opinion. However, I do know that Vista does work quite well, given compatible hardware to run it on, and compatible software to run on it. I do know that everyone I personally know who has Vista says they "love" it. I do know that I have legitimate stats for various web sites that show large numbers of Vista users visiting these sites. And no, these are not sites specifically designed to attract Vista users. These are web sites for various non-computer related businesses. They attract a wide variety of customers. Now it may be true that the sites I deal with mainly attract home owners, since they sell products like furnaces and air conditioners and roofing and other things that would only be of interest to people who own homes or other buildings, so I suppose you could argue that these sites don't attract a lot of unemployed dead beats and they don't attract a lot of people who live with their parents or live in dorms or apartments. So, I'm not going to pretend that my stats are "all inclusive" or that they prove anything about how "everyone" feels about Vista.

So, the bottom line is that neither of us can, on our own, come up with anything to absolutely prove beyond a doubt exactly how happy every single Vista user in the world is. Your hatred of Vista will always tilt your opinion one way. My findings that Vista works fine and everyone I know who uses it loves it will tilt my opinion another way. The handful of stats that I have seen seem to support my opinion, so I'm going to stick with it. If you have some information to disprove my opinion, then you are welcome to present it.

Rick

I ISSUE man cards.

Q: Why are there women on the space shuttle?
A: So if there's a problem, at least one crew member will be able to ask for help.

This isn't strictly a computer issue. I'm sure you've seen your share of VCRs blinking '12:00'. There are service companies now that specialize in assembling things (bikes, furniture, etc.) for those who can't be bothered. I admin some of those folks don't have the time; others won't follow the instructions to pour water out of a boot even if they're printed on the heel.

:: But I agree to withdraw the "perfectly" from "perfectly happy". ::

There would be no point having a discussion with you if you insist that something is perfect, therefore above any & all critique.

The problem at this point is one of necessity. Nobody really needs to upgrade to Vista from XP at this point. However many have had trouble using Vista with new and older software. From the looks of it, Vista isn't a huge step up from XP as XP was from Me,98,2000. Vista has got some cute bells and whistles but I think for most people there is not really a compelling reason to upgrade, especially when there are many bugs left to work out. Microsoft may release Windows 7 in a couple years and this time hopefully impress us.

Themanshan - avoid a computer fix

How would/should a radical internet activist be seen?

Not to bring up that old rant but reading your comments here is pretty funny after all the claims you prebiously threw at me. Shoe, other foot and all that crap.

Crest does nothing for sore muscles.

Prep H tastes lousy and won't prevent cavities.

But Ben-Gay on the ol' 'roids? You're gonna be the mayor of Unhappy City.

"...eventually other software companies will discontinue support..."

At the risk of being even denser than usual, again, why do I care that the OS is unsupported, whether by MS or anyone else? It will still continue to run as well (or as poorly) as the last day it was supported. If it's not on the 'net, how much of a concern is security? Use the last available AV patches, disable the removable media drives; what really is the threat? Does anyone develop new malware for the 9x environment any more? Virtualize the machine and you don't even have to worry about h/w drivers any more; a W95 system and apps could run for another decade.

Seriously, if MS discontinued XP support with the release of SP 3, how would your job be affected? Assume third-party anti-malware updates are through the end of '09.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response. "

That description fits perfectly for certain people here, moron. And yes, it is an insult. But when the shoe fits...

It's just so funny that you have to turn to harsh words when you run out of things to say. You are so free to dish out insults, but then so quick to point out when someone else does it, if it suits you to use that to criticize someone who disagrees with you.

My use of an insulting term was used with reference to people that fit the description, whereas your comments about me "hallucinating" were totally unprovoked and were used simply to make me look bad because I disagree with your opinions and you can't tolerate that.

Man, are you really that stupid? Do you think no one can see through your act?

Rick

Oz: "I always look stupid."

I agree, Oz.

Oz: "Oh well, the Internet saved my a$$ again, or is it my teeth??"

The quality of what you excrete from both mouth and rectum are identical, and no help in answering your question.

I have reconsidered misjudging you several times before. I have even defended your opinions in the past when others call yuo a moron.

Apparently I have been completely mislead, I reneg any second guesses I have had and conclude you are a complete clown, and as I and others have stated, merely a troll. If you were to ever offer a relevant or semi intelligent rebuttal hell will certainly have frozen over.

Your last post has no intent whatsoever except to be a troll and start another flame war where you walk in circles and contradict yourself so often it makes readers dizzy.

Get a life, you never used to be this retarded, but now your true colours really shine quite brightly.

Thank you very much for your considered reply. First I should explain that I am actually an Englishman (my French is atrocious). The central part of my complaint was based on bitter experience with devices that allegedly "can be installed in minutes". Too many times this has proved not to be the case and I think as usual that sales take precedence over customer convenience. But I do insist that if hardware and software are to be generally sold to the public then matters should be arranged so that they can truly be installed "in minutes" and without a nervous breakdown. In closing I should add that I have Vista and it works usually without problems - but I don't like it very much!

Paul

XP does everything you need so why change?

ill still use it even when the next O/S comes out after Vista :)

Gee... I thought Absolutely and I had something "special" going on... but now I see he dumps the same crap on everyone! I'm so heartbroken now!

Well, I guess I should thank Absolutely for proving all the points I was trying to make in previous posts. ;-)

Rick

He's been at it for years now, and I mean years.

He hangs with and attracts other trolls too, some are old TR peers with new aliases but they make the same comments so they always show who they really are.

you're not alone, he actually thinks it's clever though, that's the saddest part.

Should see him run in circles to keep his arguments going, he'll end up agreeing with you and then state that you had the opposing opinion all along.

Just a bottom feeder, don't waste the keystrokes, I gave up on the loser too.

YES ABS THAT WAS A THIRD PARTY CONVERSATION. 'kin tool.

>"Just because it works doesn't mean you should keep it."

>Agreed, but just because the OS is no longer supported doesn't strike me as mandating an switch to another OS.

I think it really depends on what you're requirements are for a particular system.

After all, I still have the first computer I ever owned: An Apple ][ that my parents bought for me when I was in college back in 1979. It still works and is still useful for playing games and such. Even though it is long out of support, I can still use it.

On the other hand, I wouldn't risk trying to run my business on that machine. I wouldn't count on those old 5.25" floppy disks to store my data - they were unreliable at best when they were new! It just doesn't make sense to rely on obsolete, unsupported hardware or software for running critical applications.

I suspect AV is speaking from the position of supporting critical applications, probably in a big corporate environment, where they have requirements to keep critical applications running on systems that are "up to date" and under vendor support, whereas Palmetto is speaking more in general terms, where it is true that you can easily continue to use a system even many years after it is out of support. The bottom line is that it all depends on what you are trying to acheive.

Rick

So... I'm kinda sick of people complaining about Vista. It is a pretty solid environment from my use... all three of my computers are running it at this point.

Would I recommend if for business use? at this point, no... not without every computer getting it...

Would I recommend it to a client? yes. I think the people who complain about it are the ones who are too lazy to learn its quirks... And you cant say that Xp doesn't have its quirks...

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=250712&messageID=2408296

Oz decided to bring up a previous disagreement, from a separate thread. I don't like that.

Where's the fun in that? :-)

I can't speak for AV, but your correct about where I'm coming from.

Yeah, I guess I'm trying to be too reasonable, aren't I? I didn't mean to spoil the fun! ;-)

Rick

I was merely pointing out your hypocrisy. How you flame/accuse someone for something that you are doing yourself just a couple of days later.

So now the rules change again, not only are facts and links unacceptable, but now you can't even refer to a prior thread (noting you posted a link to support your statement too). Give up already!

And that's not why you are being a dork wither, you'e being a dork because you just are a dork and you know it, just as anyyone else can see rather clearly too.

I still have about 50 W2k workstations on the network, but they're already 4 years old and its time to let them go. Soon W2k will go the way of Windows 98. It actually will get worse because software companies, in addition to Microsoft, will stop supporting that OS. I can't afford to wait for that day in a networked environment.

With my voicemail system, its a combination of hardware problems and the OS, which is MS DOS. Theres absolutely nothing you can do with it except pray it keeps running until you can chuck it.

If the PCs weren't part of a network, sure you can hang onto them, but if you do, you won't get the benefit that newer, faster PCs and software offer.

Of course, on a network, there is always the security risk if you can't get any more security patches from Bill. Its easier on a company financially to replace a certain number of PCs per year as opposed to hanging on to old PCs until they are no longer useful.

AV