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Women in IT

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by sheilau

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I read an article recently that stated that there is a shortage of women in IT, and that it's because IT as a whole is a loner type of field - not much customer interaction, etc. I'm wondering what you all think about this - are there really less women, and for those of us who are women in IT - do you think it's a loner sport? I guess the article puzzled me, because not all of IT is the stereotypical programmer parked in front of his PC in a dark cube cramming junk food in his mouth....most of it is the opposite, in fact! I've been in IT for 12 years and counting now, and I love it. My manager is a woman, and one of the directors of IS in our company is a woman. So - what's the word out there? Is there a shortage of female IT workers, and if so - why do you think that is?

31 replies

by james r linn

If I look at my current organization, there is some evidence of stereotypical biases - more women than men on help desk, more men than women dbas. But I wouldn't say its a dire shortage - there is a somewhat even distribution, with the exception of senior management.

I attribute that factor to time - if you need 15-20 years experience to be in senior management ranks, IT was much smaller, and had fewer women back in the early 80s.

I will say that I've seen and heard evidence in the past about the math gap. Men tend to score higher in math than women, and some studies have shown that its not an apititude thing, rather its the way math is taught, and to an extent the renforcing of traditional stereotypes regarding math, men and women. Math is a major pre-requisite for highly technical programming.

But I'd have to say that while my last ten years have seen more men than women programmers, I see that gap closing with time.

I too have had women managers, who have been quite succssful in going into higher levels of managment.

Hope that helps.

James

by sheilau

I will admit freely that I despise mathematics...I had a horrible teacher in high school who told us on the first day that "if you're female, you will fail this class". I still shudder when someone says the word "geometry"!

I also agree that time is a big factor in seeing women in upper management of IT. Those that are there now have put in some serious time, and energy, to get where they are. In time, I'm sure we'll see more and more, just like any other industry.

by admin

IT demands a great deal of customer interaction in some areas and little in others. You can find extremely social positions in IT.
I see more men than women in the field still, but I think that in my own experience of being a single parent (truly- with my kid all except 6 nights in the last 3 months) that it is difficult finding flexible enough positions in IT to let you walk your kid to and from school, be off on school breaks, and still get a salary good enough to make a house payment. Most IT jobs demand big sacrifices in time and this is at odds with parenting which many women are closer to than men in our society still.
I'm sure that is not the only reason, but it appears to me to be a contributing factor :)

by sheilau

I am a mother, but luckily not a single parent, so I do have some help. I have been extremely fortunate in that I work for a company that puts people and family life first...if your child is sick, or you need to be home because of a snow day, they do their utmost to accomodate your situation. We have a backup daycare center onsite for employees, and they provide us with the tools we need to be able to work from home if possible. Wish more companies would do the same....

by prefbid ii

Anytime there is an analysis like this, the first question I want to ask is: What is the appropriate number of (fill in the blank)? To say there is a shortage says that someone figured out that there is a "right" number.

Are 52% of the IT workforce women? That's easy to check (answer is no). Is this a problem? I don't know that I can say. It's like asking if there is appropriate representation for any group. It's been my observation that Indian, Asian and White men are over-representedin the IT field. I have no idea if that is a problem either.

Is it a stereotype that drives people in or out of the field? Somehow I have my doubts. Most people go into career's that interest them. There is only so much interest that you can force down someone's throat. Maybe it has to do with math (I thnk they are guessing). It may have more to do with how they process information (men on average have fewer synapses between the brain hemispheres). Maybe IT appeals to those of us who only think with half our brain engaged on any one task.

Maybe it is because the IT guy is rarely seen in movies and on TV as anything other than a badly dressed nerd (unless he is the bad guy -- in which case it is Gucci all the way).

by sheilau

Like I said, the attitude in the article confused me. I work with so many women in my department and division that at first the "shockingly low number of women in IT" statement in the article took me by surprise. Then I thought maybe I just lived with my head in the sand - or should I say snow (it's possible - I'm in WI, after all!!) So I was wondering how they arrived at that statment and wanted to toss the comment out here and see what I got back.

by road-dog

Sit in the lobby of a hotel frequented by business travelers. (any hotel called "The Airport-*.* for instance) 90% of business travellers are men.

Peoplewatch at a trade show such as Interop, there is an overwhelming majority of men and a booth with a scantily dressed female has guys 25 deep looking "at the product"

There is hope, though.

I'm seeing more women in training classes in the last 18 months or so, so perhaps more women are being invested in by companies.

by sheilau

At one of my previous jobs, I was put into sales for a short time because I knew the software so well. I spent the majority of my time on the road at trade shows and meetings. I have to say, it was uncomfortable at times because I would often be the only woman in the area. I was often accused of only being there as "eye candy", and was asked if there was "someone they could talk to about the product"....as though I didn't know what I was doing simply because I was female. Now, however, I seea gradual shift in attitudes that makes me very happy I stuck with this industry. I did move away from sales, though - I've found I'm much happier fixing machines than trying to convince some poor sap to purchase them :)

by road-dog

I COMPLETELY agree with you on the sales comment. I had a pathological aversion to sales and was quite happy sticking to the post-sales Engineering functions in my life as an employee. When I created my business plan for my consulting business, I found that I had a major weakness in the sales and marketing arena. Fortunately, I was able to cover that angle through a partnership with another Engineer with massive pre-sales experience and a 4th degree black belt in schmoozing. Problem solved!

I now have a greater respect for sales, but have taken steps to structure my company in such a way as to utilize engineering as ?eyes on the inside? for sales, but stick to engineering. That?s why I chose to avoid the VAR model, and stick to consulting.

As for the ?eye candy? comment, I suspect that that stereotype is continued due to the small number of women in this field who really are there as ?eye candy?. I did a total network enema on a healthcare organization, and the manager had recently thrown out a VAR because they sent this attractive young lady to one of their sites to install a router in a comm. closet. She showed up in ultra tight skirt and could not even climb a ladder to do the install! Unfortunately folks like that have a tendency to be remembered better than a dozen onsite visits by an appropriately dressed woman who gets the job done as advertised?..

by nonamecharlie

Women in IT, that I've noticed, tend to be web developers, graphic artists, programmers, QA analysts and so forth.

As for being eye candy..well, I am not best looking person out there but I am easier on the eyes than the balding, hairy legged guys I work with. So perhaps its an advantage being noticed...Maybe it's a disadvantage as it is natural for men to trust other men more but if you're sharp, nothing stands in your way.

by ospy

The reality of life is that woman are surpressed, and unfortunately we do it to ourselves unconsciously due to society and the years of suppression. If your good looking they will exploit you and dont ever forget that men think they are superior tous. One might think this is crazy but the only thing men can't do is have babies and ya know what .....they are jealous of that believe it or not! They want it all.....! You may think they respect you and treat you like an equal but it's all psychologial manipulation for the better of their business. Ladies wake up and smell the coffee.

by james r linn

It was quite common for software companies to have models at trade shows to demonstrate product. They would read canned presentations, do the Vanna White thing demoing the box etc. Many of them dressed provocatively.

"Legitimate" women at trade shows are paying for that legacy.

I see it less at computer trade shows, but go to a car show, its alive and well.

James

by sheilau

I attended a large trade show in Chicago one year in the early 90s. Another vendor down the row from me had actually hired "professional escorts" to work his booth, and he was "giving them" to high profile potential clients in an effort to woo them. The organizers of the trade show found out about it and shut him down, but not before he had approached several women vendors (myself included) and offered us a way to make "a few extra bucks tax free, wink wink". I later heard that he had been kicked out of the professional organization that had sponsored the show, but we never returned to that particular show.

by road-dog

I did not make it to Interop that particular year, but I heard from many people that a large networking equipment vendor "stacked" their booth with a large number of dancers from a local adult entertainment establishment.

I can imagine the bannerover the booth:
"Come and see our silicon based solutions!"

by road-dog

I worked for a female senior manager for almost a year a long time ago. She had a reputation for being a hard-case with people outside of her department. I was more than a little worried about things when my department was being transferred under her. As it turns out, she was adored by her people; and her reputation came from her vigorous protection of her staff from other managers.

I was going through a really tough time on the home front, and found myself as a single dad with sole custody of an 8-month old girl. (suffice it to say my ex wife felt she needed $25,000 worth of cocaine to help lose the baby weight) I briefed her on the situation and explained that I needed time off at odd times with short notice to meet with my attorneyand to handle dozens of other problems. She green-lighted me to work whenever I could, just let her know by email if I needed time off or any other help. I?m not sure that I?d have been able to pull it all off without her help.

I cannot help but believe that her gender was a factor on her handling of my situation.

Suffice it to say, tough = bitch is not always true, and the nurturing approach can be a HUGE asset.

Epilogue:
She later left for another position and her ENTIRE departmentwent with her. She went to this other company as a turn-key engineering department.

by ospy

Most recently there was an article about why woman don't want to be in this profession anymore. They are realizing that one of the reasons is because the way it is taught. Men and womans brains work differently in regards to the way they process information and it's geared for mens brains. To break into the IT field today is quite difficult, to say the least, especially in NY. The schools they have for certifications are a nightmare. I succeed by learning on my own because in essence that's what we are doing. Getting CBT and hearing a one day lecture for a book that contains 600 pages or so? I feel the educational system has failed us, as we can not compete with third world country engineers in no way, no how. 12-15 years ago was another story but today........................! Also, a well balanced person does not want to be a workaholic and that's what happens! Unless most of your waking hours are spent working and reading, your a gonna. What about living life and having fun?
I use to like to work with computers but finding it to be a nightmare lately as it's too time consuming trying to secure everything and we are all still so vulnerable it's incredible!
Many people who have been in the industry for 20 years aregetting out and finding other means of making a living!

by road-dog

Here in the Sunshine State, IT training is readily available. Everybody and their brother has a MCSE or A+ curriculum, from community colleges to VOC-ED schools to every VAR in the yellow pages.

My theory is that the situation is more due to vestigial "boys want to be cowboys, Girls want to be veterinarians" type of sexual imprinting.

I've seen the right brain, left brain, and no brain types in this field. If you think that women lack problem solving skills, watch your wife mediate problems between 3 year olds. You will see the wisdom of Solomon come into play.

by packratt

I agree with you in that there is little to prove the genetic side of the argument that men are somehow better suited to the field. At least, that's what my experience tells me from working with many different people in the field, (men and women).
Being an MCSE or A+ is one thing, being a professional with multifaceted skills and crossplatform experience is quite another and quite difficult to maintain and that is what is expected in the business world today. Companies what more for less, they always do, so if there are people out there who can do the work of two or three engineers then there is an awesome amount of pressure to do the same in order to stay marketable... This is why an MCSE is a dime a dozen when that's all you rely on.
In this field, if you aren't buried in books and doing what's in the books and what's going to be in the books tomorrow today then you are history whether you are a man or a woman.

It is only a matter of prejudice that keeps many women out of IT, on both sides. Many women perceive the field as something for trekies and the guys from revenge of the nerds. Many businessmen see women as incapable of the long hours of intense concentration and constant mental exertion that is required today. These are two unfortunate myths that keep many good people out of IT and other fields.

by ospy

I thought that since it seemed to be a woman's issue that men would stay out of it. Guess not because men want to be in everything, even women's discussions Just read a reply from __dog and it was a guy commenting on how women handle conflicts in regards to children. Give me a break>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

by ospy

this is suppose to be for woman so why are you constantly in this particular discussion group? Issues.............. :)

by nonamecharlie

I think women choose not to have this career because it is dismal. I always tell them, yes you have the ability but run away because the pay stinks, the hours suck, and it is totally thankless.

In regards to the male/female brain, I think it istrue but not with the premise the training is geared towards men.

IT will always be about faster and harder, just like cars and dirt bikes. Especially on the hardware side. It requires a love of gadgets, tinkering, splicing, tools, building..it is just a guy thing. Women just prefer other things.

There aren't a whole lot of female mechanics but it's not discrimination or the way the skills are taught. It's just not of any interest.

by packratt

Not a biological determination. I sorta disagree on the aspect of why males enjoy the field more than women do. It seems to me that they do enjoy it aside from all the negatives like hours, pay, and negative social response by way of the geek factorand management disrespect.

See, I view most of IT as a nurturing activity. You create something from nothing and design it and give birth to ideas and make them reality. Yes, a lot of dry facts and figures, mathematics, and technology are involved, things that are negatives to most women via social expectation. But once you get past that, women are very well suited for the task.

Have you ever called the network you created your baby? How about that first PC you overclocked and were so proud of? Maybe a particulalry good bit of code too? I think you can see where I'm going with this.

In the end, I think that all the mitigating factors equal out, making both sexes equally suited for work in IT in their own ways.

by sheilau

I have worked in the Help Desk field of IT for 12 years now, and every day is a challenge. I hear everything, from the no-brainers to dealing with an expert who demands my technical perfection. I am paid well for what I do, and I am always encouraging women to join this industry. I have more than enough social contact (so much so that there are days I turn off my telephone when I get home!!), constant mental challenges, and I get a huge rush out of fixing that niggling little problem that has been stumping me for weeks! Even after all these years, I still get up and look forward to going to work, and I think that says a lot. As for being thankless, we're starting to change that attitude here and yesterday we were actually presented with a thank you gift from a non-IS department because of all the hard work we've been doing to keep them running during a critical system outage. If your job is thankless, I say find a new one!

by sheilau

There are many businesses who underestimate women and their ability to multitask - they should watch one of us at home as we cook dinner, listen to our husband talk about his day, check homework, feed the dog, start a load of laundry....you get the idea. My job requires that I am able to do multiple things at once, and somehow I manage to do it - and do it well. I don't like to get into gender stereotypes, because to me it's as racist as basing assumptions on nationality. The way I look at it - if you do your job, and do it well, I don't care if you're a purple polka-dotted alien from the planet Pleeboid :)

by nonamecharlie

Afterall, I am here aren't I?

Actually, no. I've never called a network my baby or anything...oddly, men use that term for gadgets. I do understand that point but it is more the thrill of achievement than nurturing.

My point is that men are more disposed towards IT than women for the same reasons men are drawn towards cars more often than women. Women choose other careers.

I don't think there is a social bias, only a natural disposition.

by nonamecharlie

Where do I sign up for your company?

I think your company is the exception. My husband participates on a totally unrelated forum (outdoors and off-roading). By coincidence, a lot of the individuals are also IT/help desk. They had a special discussion on their IT jobs. He sent me the link with a note "See, it's not just you!"

by sheilau

We're always looking for great talent.....you'd have to be willing to live in rural Wisconsin, but if you're looking for a company that bends over backwards for it's people, I say c'mon over!

by volodine_dani42

I am studying IT a private college and there is a class with about 20 IT students. Out of 20 students there is only one girl who is also studying IT with us.
Also at the previous IT college I was studying, there was the same amount of students at the class and there were no females at all.
I think that pretty the same situation is at most IT colleges and maybe even universities.
Personally, I think that the problem is that in IT you don't really communicate with the customer.
You do communicate, but not as much as on some other several professions. I was also puzzled about shortage of woman in IT department. So, I asked some of the female students at my college about their choosing of profession. I asked them why they did not choose ITinstead. The answer was about the same- IT is too boring. All you do is just sitting in the office and doing all your stuff. Some of them said that they think IT is more for guys. That's what I found out at some of the colleges.

by ospy

In my opinion you happen to be lucky having all women around you but the majority is men. You do know about the glass ceiling theory don't you? Well that explains one reason the other reasons, which I have read is that one doesn't have a life if your going to be an engineer. Your married to your job and although our country supposedly supports family quality time, it's a paradox. Also, the books written and the schools I've been to are written mostly by men which causing a major inconvenience for woman. Our brains work diffently and that is a fact. It is hard enough to get certified and the way they teach it makes it even more difficult. Male oriented and male dominated. So in light of it all, count your blessings that your in the space that you are! Happy Holidays!

by admin

"I'm wondering what you all think about this - are there really less women, and for those of us who are women in IT - do you think it's a loner sport?"

The author included men gramatically, and when we appeared she gave no indication that she hadintended otherwise in her replies. What "issues" could you be referring to here?

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