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18 year old programmer… Uni or work

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I’m 18 and I’m currently employed as an ASP and general web programmer. At the moment my future career hangs on a decision on whether to go straight into employment or go to Uni.

I work in a programming team with two software engineering graduates, both who got top grades. I work a very similar level as my collegues, and I get paid a very similar wage. If I decide to go to University I’ll do AI or software engineering, and if I go to work I’ll probably do something similar to what I’m doing now.

I’m going to be working until september anyway, but will it be better for me to do a computing degree which will start off covering a lot of things which I already can do, or should I go into work either as a contractor or with a large firm…

I would appreciate some opinions of people who would be responsible for hiring people such as myself or other IT professionals. I’d like to think that I’m quite good at what I do, and I enjoy doing it, but the road ahead is very puzzling.
Thanks

Andy

Topic

title on paper

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

If you don’t have still a certification and a degree, consider now taking any related course to your job. Managers prefer in hiring those people with knowledge and papers than those with knowledge alone.

Go to School

In reply to title on paper

Andy
I’ve been in the IT business for the last 14 years. And am currently enrolled in a university getting my MBA in Computer Science. One thing I’ve learned, even with all my experience it will not open some doors that a degree will. Several of my frends have found that to be true also. Get you education while your young, you will never regret it.

Thanks

Bob Wininger

Experience counts over papers.

In reply to title on paper

TRUST me, thats how i got my job as a senior apps and web developer. I have bugger all quals just experience.

I know this because i know more about programming than most uni students do on graduation. (ALTHOUGH it would be good to have the quals:)

Sometimes, not always

In reply to Experience counts over papers.

While experience is always an excellent teacher, it is not the only teacher, nor is it always the best teacher.

There are areas where the theoretical background of a subject that can only be acquired in an academic environment is invaluable. If one is writing financial software, for example, a thorough understanding of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) is vital; that understanding is acquired through college-level study, NOT work experience.

Programming itself–meaning the actual writing of code–is a vocational skill, and is best learned on the job; of that there can be little doubt. However, other aspects of software development, such as application design, do require conceptual knowledge that is best acquired through some form of college degree.

Trust ME–experience is good, but education is invaluable. I do not recommend people go to college to learn programming, but I do heartily recommend that people go to college.

Cordially,

Peter Nayland Kust
TekMedia Communications
http://www.tekmedia.com
pkust@tekmedia.com

Expand own outlook through university!

In reply to title on paper

Expand the outlook through university,
it will develop your abilities to the further self-education, – it is not important than you will be engaged further.
My answer – once again, – university!

Mike Tatarinov, Russia.

Go to the University

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

I have interviewed many people in my life and I must say that I will look on a resume to see where they went to school and what degree they obtained. If you ever hope to rise to a level of responsibility in some of the Fortune 500 companies then you must obtain the degree. They will probably not openly admit it but rest assured it is required. Smaller companies will be more open to hire those with lots of experience but no degree. I hope that I don’t sound snobish about it. I know some extremely talented developers that don’t a degree. But most of them seem to always have to prove them self whenever they are in meetings with degreed people. I am not saying this is right but merely how I think it is.

Second AND MOST IMPORTANT. You are 18. The college years will be quite possibly the best years of your life. You will meet new people. Try and budget money. Do your laundry. Study, study, study. And then have time to have some fun. These are lessons that build character and prepare you for life. You have the rest of your life to run in the rat race. Besides you can work summers as a co-op and maybe even consult during school if you so feel the urge. Will you have to take some classes in college that you feel don’tapply to what you will do in your professional career? YES YES YES….. but so what. It is all a growing experience (doing things well that you don’t want to). Trust me, you will look back on those years and wish you didn’t study so hard and maybe had a little more fun….although some people get this reversed. Don’t you! 🙂

Good Luck

V

YOu sure need a University Degree

In reply to Go to the University

It is quite true that be that as it may…You know it all already at eighteen.
Nice…Very nice I must say..It must have been a hardwork.
I see that you’ve got a lot ahead of you and you should not be confused with what you’re being paid now.
University sure has a way of enlightening you and making you a better society.
Personally,I went to a University to study a course I did not bargain for,but that is not the issue..The issue is that I have passed through the walls of a university and I am presently going through a college to complete a course in Networking and Internet.
Well,it’s a personal decision but you will soar higher with a degree.Goodluck and all the best.
AdA

Co-op’ing is a good route

In reply to Go to the University

I wouldn’t trade the memories I have from college for anything in the world. I studied hard early on, then played alot my last couple of years. I co-op’ed and it was great experience. It allowed me to pay my own way through school without having loans. It showed me how different the real world was from the classroom, and what I found interesting. Vanderlay is right, it might not seem like it now, but there will be plenty of years to be in the rat race.

My father-in-law works 20 hour days to meet his deadlines and is the best in his field. He left school to start working fulltime and never finished his degree. His company has used the fact that he doesn’t have a degree as a reason to pass him by for promotions. Sure, it’s only a piece of paper, but it can be an important one at times.

Go to school and have fun!

response

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

I think better thing for you to do a computing degree then go into work either as a contractor or with a large firm….
Because these things are changing constantly.
Than you.

Do Both!

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

If you enjoy programming (or building ASP) you will learn more and learn faster staying where you are.

EVERYONE should have college in the US to insure employment security as well. Why not study Accounting, Business Administration, Chemistry, orsomething you are interested in academically other than computer science.

If your employer already hired two degreed programmers I’m sure you recognize the value of their degrees to your employer. Why not discuss your future plans with someone in personnel where you work to see if they will allow you to start school locally during the day and keep your job afternoons and/or week-ends. What could you loose? – nothing. What might you gain – A degree + computer expertise + company $ assistance + employer respect + dual qualification for your work assignments.

I am a retired Aerospace Technology grad (from Apollo days) with a PE in Electrical Engineering. I never had one Computer Science class in school however my last 20 working years found me programming database business software for accounting, than e-commerce business applications. I loved it and was good at it too.

Above all talk to your employer honestly (+ the programmers you work with) once you know what you want

IT professional – New comer

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

Dear Andy,

I myself is an newcomer to IT feild and I am also seeking my Certified Professional Accountant exams in May 2001, my third attempt, I am working in the feild of accouting since past 20yrs .

Finally I would suggest you to persue youruniversity and get hands on experience which you are lucky to get at the moment. As I am going from pillar to post get such a offer.

Regards and Best Wishes

Lalit C Bhatia
Middle East,United Arab Emirates.

Get a degree

In reply to IT professional – New comer

My son is in a similar situation, and working to get MSCE certification because he is to excited about getting the big $$$, and is to impatient and lacks motivation to attend classes he isn’t interested in.

I talked to several friends in the industry regarding my sons situation, to get their advice. One that’s responsible for hardware engineering and software development, indicated he rarely will even bother to review a resume if the person doesn’t have a college degree. His opinion is that they usually lack the maturity and motivation to handle the responsibility and work required to manage a major project.

Another friend just has his MSCE certification. He has been in the industry several years, is married, has kids, and is struggling to get a degree at nights so he can continue advancing and get a better position. He wishes he had gotten a degree while he was still young and single.

Finely, where I work, those without degrees generally are looked at technicians that provide support roles to the professionals, and rarelly get credit that the professionals do. Those that start with degrees, also start in suport roles, but they move up in the profession much faster, and are viewed as professionals from the start. Non degreed personnel have also moved into professional status, but it was after years of hard work. I have never met a professional that was sorry he had a degree. Nearly every professional that started without a degree wishes he had one. Those that were successful without degrees were usually talented highly motivated people that had good communication skills and were able to sell themselves and their talents. They also worked very hard, and probably put much more effort into their positions than even those with degrees.

You can be successful either route, but my experience tells me you will be happier in the long run with a degree.

In the Long run…

In reply to IT professional – New comer

Hi,
You might well be doing the Job which you seem is exciting now. But as experienced professional, I can say that your enthusiasm will die sooner than you think and you will want to look for better opportunities. Then not just your experience, but also your education matters. So looking to your long term future, I would suggest that you should go for education.
By the way I have a Master in Computers. But after 6 years of Industry work, when I am in the stage to go to middle management, I find competition amongst my colleagues who have MBA. So I am considering the options for doing an evening MBA. You have advantage of age. Make the best use of it. Will never regret later.

Wishes,
Naveen D.

An Enlisted Perspective…

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

Consider the US Military: there are plenty of enlisted personnel in the computer/networking field with extraordinary technical skills (most of them are getting out, but that’s a different story?). Degreed officers, whether technical or not, are theleaders and the decision makers. The degree is all that sets them apart. The enlisted personnel are highly encouraged to get their degrees as well, but in many cases it takes the better part of a career to obtain that degree due to the pressures of working and going to school, and inevitably starting a family.

My suggestion is to get your degree first. I assume that you don’t have the family commitments (wife and kids) that keep many tied to their desks, and you could do school full time. You could continue to work part time and summers to keep the active experience level.

God Bless!

Work or Study?

In reply to An Enlisted Perspective…

Have u considered going to Uni. on a part time bases. And, remember, u would learn more than programming at Uni, communication skills, etc.

Yes University But consider this

In reply to Work or Study?

Going to a university is a good thing for many people. But if your motivation is to get a degree you may want to try a different tactic. First off there are very reputable schools, Regents in NY for one, that offer the ability to take credits (classes) anywhere and have them apply to a degree granted by their institution.

This approach provides flexibility. If you want to go to school part time or may need to change locations over the course of several years you do not lose your school standing. Another benefit of this approach is you may qualify for credit for your work history and accomplishments. You may also earn credit by taking qualification exams for some courses. This may allow you to start out in upper level courses instead of slogging through easy stuff for a couple years.

I am three credits shy of finishing my Bachelors through Regents. I would not be able to get a degree any other way.

College vs Experience

In reply to An Enlisted Perspective…

I agree with MHDhawaii. U was in the Air Force, and tried to get my degree while I was in (a big recruiting point was the AF paid up to 90% of your tuition). Except the hours often were prohibitive (I worked alternating shifts) and was often deployed.
I was finally able to go back to school at 30 (after getting out). I managed to get my AA degree while I was in the service, and it took me 3 years to finish my BAS (I worked full time on swing shift and went to school part time during the day).A couple of years after graduation, I got a decent position as a helpdesk technician (my first computing job was as a large scale operator, and the money really sucked).

The sheep skin opened the doors for me to the better paying positions.

Ifyou are working already, see if your company reimburses tuition. That way you get your diploma, as well as get the experience on your resume.

What do you want?

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

That is the real question. What do you want–out of your job, and out of your life?

If all you want to do is write code and develop software, then pursuing higher education probably won’t do much to further that ambition. In fact, I would strongly encourage you NOT to go to college for that purpose–there is nothing a college can teach you that you aren’t already learning where you are.

However, there is more to life than writing code, and more to a career as well. If you someday have ambitions of managing other developers, a college degree will be necessary. If you want to branch into other disciplines–perhaps even outside of IT–a college degree will be necessary.

The value of a degree is not in the education, or even the experience of the academic environment. A college degree tells the world (and current and future employers) that you are able to commit to long-term goals, and to work in a planned and structured fashion to achieve those goals. The degree is valuable, not for what it says about your knowledge, but for what it says about your character.

Cordially,

Peter Nayland Kust
TekMedia Communications
http://www.tekmedia.com
pkust@tekmedia.com

Do Both!

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

Do both! Go to school part time the whole year through and work full or part time as well. I think the fact that you are only 18 and are in the field is awesome. I am fairly new to the IT field and nothing beats experience to start out. As time goes on and if you want to move to management, then college can help. The trouble with getting a four year degree in a field such as IT is that how things wil change in 4 years! The stuff you learned the first few years may be obsolete by the time you graduate. Maybe consider a 2 year program.

There are going to be alot more people getting invovled with IT in the next 5-10 years who will have related degrees. Which may mean more competition for you if you don’t have a degree.

Either way, it’s going to come down to a few things. Are you good at what you do? Do people respect you and your abilities? And are you a good people person (are able to get along with just about anybody, a team player, ect…) Whatever you do, these skills will take you far regardless.

Hope this gives you some food for thought
You are in a great position. Good luck

Different perspective!

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

My 2 cents.
I felt the way you feel 18 years ago. I learn in high school about PC’s and I was able to work with some friends (with grads) and we build a very nice hard drive interface for Sinclair Z80 and we sold it. We didn’t made much money and then we adapted it for IBM PC’s and it worked nice and we made some money. Then we moved to create software (compresing and…). But we were specialized and only the two guys with grads were able to go in new grounds and think different. I went to univ and I got my grad. I am now a software developer and I plan to open my own software comp. I have a different perspective and I could work in any computer shop in this world with no hassles. This world is crazy. Yes you could do a very interesting thing now but this could be obsolete in about couple of months, a year or two. You’re 18. You could do both (as I did) and whatever happens you will be able to cope with change. If you don’t, you may be in a position (after 7-10 years) to change withno time to learn a new technology, no theoretical ground to understand it and probably a family to support. What are you going to do then?

Uni or Not

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

Andy,

You sound like one smart guy. Ten years from now you may not enjoy what you are doing today and, the work world will have changed. If you invest some time in yourself now ie education, you will not regret it later.
Education won’t do everything for you, but it will open doors that may not otherwise be opened. Get the degree first. It’s a big world out there and you only have yourself to live with or kick in the future.
Hope this helps.

My 2 Cents of what you should do

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

I would personally say that it all depends on what kind of work you want to do. If you would like to be a consultant, it doesn’t seem that a degree is as important. What is important as a consultant is paper to back up your knowledge… and believe me the knowledge is important… If you go this route don’t fall into the paper trap, because you will get burned in the real world… make sure you really know the field you are certified in. On the other hand, if you want to excel in corporate America, i.e. a fortune 500 company, I would say a degree is a necessity. It still seems to hold more weight in the corporate world. Or you could just do what I did and go to school in your spare time and possibly even get your employer to help out with tuition. Just don’t over do it… start with a light class schedule and move forward accordingly. Anyway, I hope this helps you in your quest. Good luck… Just make sure you do something to seperate yourself from your peers as there are a flood of people starting into the IT world.

Justin Graves, MCP

Use your head.

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

Andy, For what it’s worth… I think you’ll do better in the long run if you get the degree. If you are taking a lot of classes (at least initially)that you may be able to teach, you can probably keep right on working freelance if you want to without a heavy homework load. At least part time. Talk to the people you’re working for now – they are probably more than willing to work with you on this.

Reply To: 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

In reply to Use your head.

Go to college. It’s about more than a degree. The years you spend in college will never be regretted. You will also open more career options with an education. As for your present skill level, talk to someone in admissions, and ask about an advancedplacement. Good Luck

Advance Placement

In reply to Reply To: 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

I don’t know if they still do this, but also there is a program called College Level Examination Program (CLEP) and the Dantes tests. The CLEP tests lets you take tests in the general subjects, and can earn you up to 30 hours (your first year of college), and would get you through stuff like english 101, math 101, etc. I took them right out of high school, and passed them. My basic training in the Air Force counted for the PE requirement.

the Dantes tests are subject tests, and if you have advanced knowledge on a subject, you can get credit for them as well. See your guidance counselor for details.

Go to University!

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

The diploma is more important in more ways than you can imagine now. You may be getting paid the same as your co-workers now, but their upward career path will not have bumps yours might if you don’t get the sheepskin. Remember that this is probably the only time in your life you will be able to go full time to school – and don’t let this once-in-a-lifetime chance pass you by. Your r/l experience will be a plus when you take that degree and get a job after college – but it is no substitute to showing you really have what it takes to go through university and earn the degree, and that you have all the “core” knowledge necessary.

I would do both if I were you

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

Check out the University of Phoenix Online. They offer many degrees that you can attain while attending online class in your spare time. It takes 2-4 years to graduate and was the best decision I ever made. I am the IS Director at my current company, I also do consulting on the side and I take classes at UOPHX. Good luck in whatever you do.

18 and no degree

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

I currently have and Associates Degree and been working as a programmer and related fields for 18 years. The company I work for now bought out the company I hired on to and I was going places and had a future. With the new company I am stuck I need a higher degree. You never know what will happen!!! If I was younger I would get may degree!!! In fact in October I began that process.

Similiar Situation

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

I’m also 18. And I’m also working in the IT field. Unfortunately I can’t say that my experience is as pleasant as yours. I’ve been working at my company since August now, and while I’ve been doing the best I can I’m just about to step out and go get a degree. Most of what I’ve read in the replies is true. I am more support for the rest of the IT staff then I am a professional. I doubt that I would be able to find another job that was similiar. I’ve spoken with literally hundreds of people on this subject, and for the most part I have to think that getting a degree is the best option for myself. Since you already have the programming knowledge (not to mention the pay) you may want to stick in your current position and save up enoughmoney to go to college without busting the bank. But it really is an individual choice. I’d recommend getting a degree, if not now, within the next 6 years.

Uni – the right choice for the long term

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

You should look at schooling in an university setting, as some have posted in this discussion. But remember a few points here:
1) you are only young once
2) IT will always be there for you
3) there are bigger and better things than what you are doing now

By going to Uni, you will expose yourself to new disciplines and learning that you would never see on the job. Plus, you will get the chance to have a good time with a bunch of people your same age and your same interests. Plus, youwill have a better opportunity to expose yourself to new technologies and ways of thinking.

It really is not such a difficult choice. Relax, have a good time, and go to uni.

Not puzzling – go to school.

In reply to 18 year old programmer… Uni or work

Schooling is essential to your long-term career. All jobs require the ‘piece of paper’ in my kneck of the woods.

Choose a place that suits your interests. I assume that M.I.T. would be a good place to start if your in to AI, but I am not American .

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