General discussion



By FluxIt ·
Research is currently ongoing into a concept of 3D data storage and is intended to replace current mechanical methods of storing data. The ole spindle and platter may become an artifact in the Smithsonian next to the phonograph.

The entire concept centers on holographic principles. Under this theory data is stored when concentric propagating spherical waveforms collide forming a constructive / destructive wave pattern that is then 'gathered' and imprinted on a recording surface. Typically in this process highly polarized light (laser) is split into a reference beam and a data beam. The data beam is reflected off of some object then joined with the reference beam causing the interference pattern that is recorded.

If developed it may be possible when combined with asynchronous processing that highly intelligent synthetic life may come to fruition.

Currently, I am trying to visualize how this data is stored in the interference pattern. Does anyone have a good explanation?

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by FluxIt In reply to 3 DIMENSIONAL DATA STORAG ...

It appears that the data is not stored in the traditional sense of information attributes about the object. Instead the essence of the object is stored. This requires a paradigm shift in thinking.

So where in the inference pattern is image data kept and how can portions of that image be recovered? For example that the apple is red and shaped like a cardoid.

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I've read of this before.

by mrafrohead In reply to 3 DIMENSIONAL DATA STORAG ...

And I've tried to ponder it. And I developed a serious headache.

I hate to say it, but as of this point in my life, I'm not ready to absorb this type of knowledge. But I do hope in the future it will make sense to me.

It is a SUPER interesting idea though, don'tcha think?

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by FluxIt In reply to I've read of this before.

It is so fascinating and has enormous implications across a vast sector of our world. It impacts our understanding of religion, consciousness, and fundamental understanding of how the mind works. I can talk to this but I am more interested in how data is stored right now.

It requires a quantum shift in thinking away from the current discrete systems. I am attempting to study the mathematics behind it in order to understand how information may be stored in it. The math centers on wave physics.

I understand that it has some limitations. Data is not stored as object attributes as in current database technologies. Abstract information may be difficult to store. However, the essence of a physical object can be stored and recovered somewhat like a memory or visualization in the human mind. Hence, this kind of technology most likely would require a nueral net to process the stored image.

I can envision a nueral net organized in a virtual manner having 100's if not 1000's of processors installed on a backplane and logically organized through software to process the stored images. So if some one was to 'ask' what color is the apple - the neural net would retrieve the image of an apple and process it for color. So a 3D data storage draws its strength from symbolic logic rather than digital logic.

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by dhuwrees In reply to 3 DIMENSIONAL DATA STORAG ...

Simplest description I have heard to date is that it's like punch cards, but at the atomic level.

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AI Systems

by bayani In reply to

Multidimensional storage systems are of particular interest to Conceptual Spaces theory. I am currently beginning on the road to my PhD studying this topic. With the current 2 dimensional storage systems, we need to figure out some really nasty and inefficient methods using some sort of search tree system to store multiple dimensions. (e.g. Red, Green, Blue would be 3 dimensions to form a super dimension called colour. Groups of colour in different vectors would then form shapes etc.) Currently, the system that I can see requires about 38 dimensions to get basic functions such as vision based object recognition, and sound based object recognition.

Since all of this information is essentially stored in a one dimensional array, being a hard disk, search trees such as Quad-trees and B-Trees are interesting to us, as this allows for quick searching, but takes a long time to store given a nasty situation.

Further problems also occur when some dimensions are not present. Ie, have X, and Y, but not Z axis information. This takes the function from a Log(MN) function (where N is the number of items stored, and M is the number of dimensions) to a X^2Log(MN) function. (X being the number of dimensions not present)

All of these problems would have a much simpler solution with a 3D storage approach, as you could model a basic Conceptual Space Crystal from the center of the drive, with each dimension being stored at certain distances from the centre of the structure, at a certain angle.

I will be rather interested when we get true storage crystals to be able to store our data systems.

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Fault tolerance?

by Sleek1 In reply to AI Systems

Can you imagine the kind of operating system it would take to govern 3Dimensional data storage? Current windows fault tolerance is somewhere in the neighborhood of 125,000 f/s. I cant imagine anyone ever writing an OS that could handle it. I would compare it to "moletronics", or processors built on the principal of (+-)charged molecules that can be "switched" on and off along their molecular pathways relative to current. It would literally require an OS that could handle MILLIONS of faults per second just to run in a quasi-stable manner. It doesnt matter that we have actually "grown" these processors, 1,000's of which might fit on the head of a pin; the bottleneck is simply fault tolerance. So it would seem for 3D data storage. (Seems like it just might require rethinking the whole OSI Model too, huh?). Paradigm shift is right...


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by FluxIt In reply to Fault tolerance?

In holographc storage systems complete information can be recovered from any portion or fragment of the storage surface.

I do not see the need for an user OS being designed for multi-dimensional storage systems. They are 'plug and play'. The internal workings will require some sort of OS and code but that is hidden from the user. The device would be self contained.

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Need for fault tolerance

by knannest In reply to NO NEED FOR FAULT TOLERAN ...

In my opinion it's always need for fault tolerance for important data, both scientific or financial.
It seems as if you are referring to data stored
in cubes. If those cubes breaks, how will it be possible to recreate the cubes. I know that it will be possible to read fragments, but what about
the data stored at the areas where the cube breaks. We have the redundance in raid systems, also hidden from the OS or end user.

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by FluxIt In reply to AI Systems

You seem to point to conventional storage methods applied or adapted to multi-dimensional data storage. I would find it difficult to apply branching or rectangular methods.

I did explore spherical storage approaches myself as you described with the Space Crystal. It would be ideal for scientific storage where complexity is consistent at each order of magnitude. For example, close to the center information would be organized about the sub atomic level. As one moves outward information would be stored on the higher orders of magnitude. Locating the data would be addressed by angular sweep, angular rise, and a linear run (radius).

However, I believe that in order for true multi dimensional storage to be effective it has to use holography coupled with nueral nets and a 'sensory' web. In short, it has to store an image - not attributes - and then use a nueral net to assess and wein data from the image. The sensory web would be used to extract pertinent information from the image.

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That's one approach

by bayani In reply to PARADIGM SHIFTS...

Yes, using neural networks are great for certain applications, but my research is showing that a layer of simplified abstraction is more likely to produce a better result, with lower processing power.

Quite an interesting way of looking at things. You really need to read Peter Gartenfos's Conceptual Spaces Theory to see what I'm talking about.

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