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  • #2294123

    Admin with a criminal background

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    by sidvail ·

    I am the Network Admin for a local Electronic Supply company in Alaska. I have both the A+ and Network+ certifications along with a CNSE from Fluke Networks, trained in their network analyzers. My network is only 24 stations with an NT4.0 Server. I took this job over about 4 years ago, along with other duties in the company. I really like computers and networking. I do not however, have much experience with other NOS’ other than NT4.0. And having moved into this job gradually, I learned it through problem solving as they occured. The certs followed.

    I would like to make this my vocation, and pick up some more certs – namely MCSE. My problem though is that I have a criminal background. That has not been an issue where I work now – as I moved into the job slowly, proving my competence and reliability a piece at a time.

    My question is this: With my criminal background (homicide – spent 19 years in prison)will I be hired? If I obtained more certs, and pursued Networking as an occupation, would I be taken seriously? I don’t see myself moving into a head position at IBM or Exxon – but I do wonder how badly my past will hurt my chances of working in the IT field.

    Any and all comments and advise is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
    Sid

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    Replies
    • #2692423

      It can be done

      by gralfus ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Anything you can do to show a change in your life will help. Mostly people are concerned about repeated offences, and especially in law enforcement. If you can show that you are pursuing a professional course (study, certs, training, schooling) and have a steady job history since you got out, that will go a long way in helping your career.

      That said, you are still competing with a lot of folks that have no criminal history. Some people will always take it into account regardless of what you have done afterwards. But you can’t let the attitude of others stop you. Become as proficient as you can and you will find those who need your skills.

      • #2734666

        It’s about you now, not back when…

        by simply-living ·

        In reply to It can be done

        At the risk of sounding like some peace loving do gooder. I have to say “all things are possible through CHRIST who strengthens me.” IBM and Exxon may be big, but God is bigger and if you turn to Him, there is always hope!

        Make no mistake, I love Jesus, and I know HE is able, but I won’t force him on you or anyone else for that matter.

        Your past is just that, your past. Don’t lie or wash over it lightly. If there are questions answer them. You’ve served your time and now you are looking to move on. It’s about your skill and abilities now, not 19+ years ago.

        Keep looking up, it will happen!

        • #2699853

          Bravo to you

          by rgriego2 ·

          In reply to It’s about you now, not back when…

          However, todays employer doesn’t look at it that way. I personally have accepted Jesus into my heart, but that doesn’t mean Corporate America has. They still think that what they find in the paperwork of a persons past and present make the person for the future. This is not true, what a person wants to be is what they will be. God does make a difference, at least he did for me and from what you have said, you too. So once again Bravo to you for saying so.
          R.G.

        • #2714683

          Background Matter

          by thomasrwright ·

          In reply to Bravo to you

          Guys – MOST companies of any size do extensive background checks on prospective employees. A murder rap will be easy to find, obviously, but that’s not the point… the point is that corporations are being increasingly careful about who they employ. They want to avoid any potential lawsuit, and with workplace violence being what it is today, I would say that hiring a convicted murderer would be extremely unlikely – no way my company would do it & we have 60,000+ employess worldwide.

          I had a guy on my team in the last couple of years who had problems with anxiety and depression – you wouldn’t believe the scrutiny I’ve had to keep him under, to make sure he doesn’t do anything that might bother the rest of the team…

          There are plenty of applicants for just about every job, so competition is stiff. My advice to this guy would be to be glad for the job you have, and stick where you are. If you have good troubleshooting skills, then you could start to branch out by going out on your own gradually.

        • #2699778

          It all in your attitude

          by officetrouble ·

          In reply to It’s about you now, not back when…

          I would have to say to go ahead everything in life is a risk but if you never take a chance you will never know what will happen. I work as an Operations Manager and I also do the IT/Networking for the company I work for. Just be honest, don?t hide anything yet don?t say anything unless asked and then still be honest. I have to tell you my past is not something I can be proud of but as it was said by someone else it?s not your past that they are looking at it is you today.

        • #2699766

          Working for God?

          by bucky kaufman (mcsd) ·

          In reply to It’s about you now, not back when…

          re:
          I have to say “all things are possible through CHRIST who strengthens me.” IBM and Exxon may be big, but God is bigger and if you turn to Him, there is always hope!
          —– —– —– —– —–

          That comment points to a possible source of work – churches. While the pay probably sux, the work is good. They’re in the business of forgiving folks – and you’re looking for forgiving folks. They use cheap, outdated networks – you’ve got outdated skills. It sounds like a match.

        • #2699750

          Working for God…

          by boyd ·

          In reply to Working for God?

          Becky:
          Guess you haven’t been around many Churches. They are not steeped in poverty, although they don’t waste money like many corporations. Many have very new technology. You probably meant well, but I found your comment un-informed and condecending.

        • #2699693

          Working for God

          by gman529 ·

          In reply to Working for God…

          Hey, I work at my local church on computers. We are very far in advanced that what u think we have just moved 90% of the computers to XP. Also we are running a school so we have lots of security to keep the kids safe on the internet. Also we’re about to add a wireless wing to the school for our “portables”. So as you can see churchs are actually a very good place to start trying to find a job and you get spiritual help while doing.

        • #2699686

          Churches ARE in the cutting edge

          by jasonmcc68 ·

          In reply to Working for God

          Today if you plan to succeed as a mainstay church in your community, you have to stay up to date on technology. I am the IT Manager at a church with 50 computers including wireless technology and I can assure you the staff and the congregation expect me to be on top of things. Churches are a great source for anyone looking to further their career, knowledge and spiritual mind and body.

        • #2699624

          Working for God is the best work

          by rich-having. fun. ·

          In reply to Working for God…

          I have worked for my church for over a year now, and I can say churches are not poor. I will agree 100% with Boyd in his comments. Our church runs XP Pro, with a 2000 Advanced Server. Our Generation Pastor makes heavy use of Photoshop, and and After Effects. We also record every sermon, and stream it off our website. Every purchase I make for their technology needs has to be approved by three people. Churches realize when they buy something, they are better off buyiong good quality stuff. It simply lasts longer.
          Churches dont pay well? HA! While I dont make much for a salary, the rewards of doing what God wants me to be doing far outweigh any compensation available. Try serving God sometime, instead of yourself. You might be surprised at what you reap.

        • #2713219

          Working for God?

          by bucky kaufman (mcsd) ·

          In reply to Working for God…

          re:
          They are not steeped in poverty, although they don’t waste money like many corporations.
          —– —– —– —– —–

          That’s not my experience. While there’s a lot of big, corporate-style churches around – the VAST majority here in North Texas (the buckle of the bible-belt) have only about a hundred members and rarely more than a PC or two.

          re:
          You probably meant well, but I found your comment un-informed and condecending.
          —– —– —– —– —–
          I often find people get offended when I discuss the “business” of religion. Get over it.

          Churches are, unquestionably, a fine possible source for employment for ex-cons with tech skills in older technologies.

        • #2702424

          Learning from mistakes

          by a.d.e.p.t ·

          In reply to Working for God?

          re:
          I often find people get offended when I discuss the “business” of religion. Get over it.
          —– —– —– —– —–

          If you find yourself so often offending others, why continue? Grow up.

        • #2702941

          That’s not what the man said.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Learning from mistakes

          That others may take offense at one’s remarks is not the same as being offensive.

          That you may take offense at his observations does not confer on you the right to ask, let alone demand, that he desist from stating such.

          As authority for making this statement I refer you to Amendment No. 1 of the U.S. Constitution.

          And, as for “growing up,” your implication that the one to whom you are replying is “juvenile” is a conclusion based on facts not in evidence.

          The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

        • #2704718

          Capitalism vs. Christianity

          by bucky kaufman (mcsd) ·

          In reply to Learning from mistakes

          That you think I can control others emotions is quite a compliment, however undeserved. My words may be the catalyist, but their own soul is the cause.

          I think, when Christianity mixes up with Capitalism, the particpants suffer from an internal conflict. Greed and gluttony, cornerstones of Capitalism, are mortal sins. Lying and not paying your taxes are against Christian ethics, too.

          Yet capitalism, as it’s practiced in the US, refers to lying as “puffery” and uses it in marketing all the time.

          Capitlaists also find themselves in a position of decieving their associates, and their associates expect it, in matters such as true cost, and profit margins.

          Most notably, Capitalism (as it’s practiced in the US) allows you to kill people who try to take your capital – a very non-Christian value.

          I think that’s why so many truley devoted Christians choose to take a vow of poverty… and why so many Muslims refer to the US as the “Great Satan”.

        • #2699627

          Oh, how wrong you are!

          by dcurry ·

          In reply to It’s about you now, not back when…


          Simply-Living,

          Oh, how mistaken you and SO many others are!

          I myself am a convicted felon (car theft – 2.5 yrs) and I am still fighting against the stigmata 15+ years later. I AM a successful Network and Systems Admin/IT Manager. And I am willing to bet a decent steak dinner that I had to work even harder to get here, than most of us. I do not have the certs, because I do not believe in them.

          I really feel for sidvail, but I have to tell you (and the others) something you are assuming and not implementing. The stigma of being a felon (violent, drug or other) will ALWAYS have an impact on your eligibility for employment. No matter what we (former felons) do, we will always be given third or fourth consideration, if any consideration, at all. We have paid our time for our crime(s), but we can not do as so many people say. We can not just ‘let it go’, because the general public will not. If either sidvail or I showed up, and showed your employer we could do that same quality job, as well, or even better, for the same compensation, would he/she consider it? What about for half of your salary? If you were the employer, would you consider either of us?

          Fortunately, for me, I have been able to get my record expunged. This is a drastic process, but with the change in the economy, I felt it was necessary. I am trying to get reclassified as a Top Secret Clearance holder. I am competing with people who come from foreign lands, are willing and able to work for half of my salary, have varied certs and degrees, but CAN NOT do the job at 1/10th as well as I. So, I have to go after jobs that are government related, or in some other way restricted to nationals and citizens.

          I met A LOT of prision preachers in my time. ALL of them told me how great it was going to be, on the outside. How there was all sorts of help and support. But that help and support came at too high a price, for me. I was not/am not willing to lose my self identity jsut to work as a ‘bag boy’ in the local grocery. I ‘broke the cycle’ through much hard work, grovelling and redundant proof, time and time again.

          With all due respect unto you and your ideals, before espoucing the greatness of your beliefs, I invite you to walk in my shoes (or sidvails) for a while. THEN tell me if the stigma remains after the debt to society is paid. And then tell me what I (and others) have to do, to finish paying off that debt.

          I am a combat veteran.
          I volunteered to defend my country
          your beliefs
          your way of life.
          I made a mistake, and paid for it.
          again
          and again.
          when and where is that forgiveness from the society of superior morals?

          Sincerely,

          Daniel Curry

        • #2699623

          Go for it

          by officetrouble ·

          In reply to Oh, how wrong you are!

          You work hard and you will get everything you worked for……………

        • #2701801

          She was just trying to help

          by sleepydutchie ·

          In reply to Oh, how wrong you are!

          Take some kind advice when it’s offered. she was not “espoucing the greatness” of her beleifs. she was offering the help you claim not to have found! I live with the cosequences of my actions, as do we all.
          You seem to have done okay, if you’re an it manager???
          its not our fault you stole a car. Its nobody’s fault but my own I have a drug conviction. I manage 1 pc in a church running win95 – we live with our choices 🙂

        • #2701788

          Absolutely

          by avickery ·

          In reply to She was just trying to help

          I agree with sleepydutchie completely. Being a covicted felon does not mean that your life has to end: You life with your choices and move on. While it is true that there will be some things that you CANNOT do, there are more things that you CAN do. For instance, there are more small businesses in the United States than there are large corporations. Many of these small businesses with 50-100 computers need a competent full time network admin, and without an HR dept to block you many people simply slip in under the Radar. It is my belief that one should not advertise the fact that they are a convicted felon. If people find out, then you can explain, or move on, but it really is none of their business.

        • #2701011

          in agreement

          by dcurry ·

          In reply to Absolutely

          I agree with you. If a person was convicted of a crime NOT related to the job function, then it is none of their business. But I have worked at those small companies, where I slipped in under the radar. Someone else within the company was stealing hardware. All of us were fingerprinted. My record came up. Although I was innocent of stealing from them, I was terminated, and escorted out of the building by a deputy sherif because I did not volunteer potentially damning information that had no bearing on my ability to do the work. And this was a company that had ‘strong chrstian values and morals’

          D

        • #2699011

          Let us not forget, though…..

          by keithphelps ·

          In reply to Absolutely

          Let us not forget, though, that when each and every application asks if you have been convicted of a felony, you can’t just leave it as “none of their business” and “not advertise the fact that [you] are a convicted felon.” I am a convicted felon also (for forging prescriptions), and I refuse to lie on an application when they ask me that. However, if I don’t get to speak with management as I turn in that application to explain my situation right then, and rely on someone thumbing through the stack and picking apps by virtue of the information contained on that app, the likelyhood of my ever getting a phone call to come in for an interview for further consideration is almost nil. But I must add that I did have it happen at my current job. They called me in and spoke with me, asking first thing what the felony was, and then decided to give me a chance. Unfortunately, I am not working in IT at the moment. I am working while attending school for IT. I have already done some IT work, and am simply going for a degree and certification, but I can definitely empathize with the person that wrote this question, and those who’ve answered it that have been in these shoes. No one ever forgets what you have done. It’s only hopefull that you find a job where they are willing to give you a shot at having integrity and character now. My last job was in IT, and they eventually (against the advice of a one or two people in the company) gave me full access to everything on the system. The people that opposed were worried about my having access to credit card numbers from our database of mail orders. The funny thing was, the thought of using someone else’s credit card had never entered my mind. And until the day that I left that company it never did. I am not a thief. I just had a problem with pain killers, made my own script pad on the computer, and filled them out. You can find the job you’re looking for, but it will be difficult. I wish you well as you attempt to rise to the occasion and make it happen for you. I know it’s easier said than done, but just keep trying, and eventually you will make it happen.

          Keith Phelps

        • #2713726

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Let us not forget, though…..

          …and in my opinion that fact that you don’t try to hide your past goes a long way. I’m sure we’ve all made bad decisions in our past, some get caught and some don’t. I don’t know if it’s fair to stigmatize those that have convicted, but it is of their own doing. The key is not repeating the same behavior that got them their to begin with. Someone else mentioned that there are many opportunities out there. Some may not be very glamorous, but none of us start off at the top even when we haven’t been convicted of anything.

        • #2699009

          Let us not forget, though…..

          by keithphelps ·

          In reply to Absolutely

          Let us not forget, though, that when each and every application asks if you have been convicted of a felony, you can’t “not advertise the fact that [you] are a convicted felon,” as avickery stated. Regardless, I wish you well as you attempt to rise to the occasion and make it happen for you. I know it’s easier said than done, but just keep trying, and eventually you will make it happen.

        • #2698735

          Actually, it depends on the state

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Let us not forget, though…..

          Whether or not the question can be asked, and under what circumstances, and during what time period, is a matter of state law, and varies greatly.

        • #2713763

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Absolutely

          As I was reading his post I initially thought the same thing. However, he has already stated that he was incarcerated for 19 years. You can’t hide that many years of being out of the work force on your resume.

        • #2701133

          You want it! Go and get it.

          by ayub ·

          In reply to Oh, how wrong you are!

          Ex-con ,I did 8yrs; now tech admin for midsize Accounting firm. Nothing is impossible! Put the right reasons first and the jobs you want and the job that wants you will land at your feet. Almost 8 years in IT, it never has been easy. I have had to deal with a lot less trash, than I had to deal with inside the pen. Life out here is a cake walk, I use my experience to inspire me more about what I am about. What God has given me no one can take away. All of God’s prophets experience the fringe of society. They were never deny his blessings. Although not everyone is the same, I pray for you and hope you enough your achievements in this industry.

        • #2701009

          Thank your for thoughts

          by dcurry ·

          In reply to You want it! Go and get it.

          Thank you. I agree with you, if you want it, go after it. If you want it bad enough, you will get it.

          The point where I take a differnet path is a matter of who earned it. did I earn it, or did God give it to me?

          I would prefer to earn it, then there is no one to blame but me for any failures and no one but me to reward for any successes.

        • #2701064

          Do not have a lack of faith

          by yanipen ·

          In reply to Oh, how wrong you are!

          “I find your lack of faith disturbing”
          – Darth Vader

          That is for you, D. Curry!

          All of the above mentioned by Daniel Curry is a whole bunch of truth. Theres is no B.S. in it. What he did not mentioned to you is that, He (D. Curry) become successful IT because of hardwork and dedication. Of course, nobody told you that it will be easy, but, as all things goes, it can be done!

          I do not blame him though for his sentiments. For I did things really bad in my youth. But if you beleive in what his sentiments are, you will be just a worthless turd in somebody’s boot, if you know what I mean.

          Just keep at it, and keep everything said about in this article, keep it in consideration. Do not falter, do your life much better that it was before. You do your own decision and do not forget to ask God for blessings and guidance.

        • #2704669

          Get over it

          by thomasaddley ·

          In reply to Oh, how wrong you are!

          I did 5 years when I was much younger. It’s 32 years since I got out. Life might have been easier if I had no record, but if I worried about it I would have gotten no where. Forget looking for excuses, no God or any one other then yourself, will make any difference, you are the only one that is capable of getting what you want, and will only get it by going for it.

        • #2705459

          Big Chicken Dinner

          by mrwebb ·

          In reply to Get over it

          As a military offender, I have found that my choices are limited because of cleareances that i have needed to get some of the more choice contracts out there. however, i see that when forms from NGO’s ask about a criminal history, it only wants the last 7 years or so. i can easily say no and have not been challenged on this from anyone. however I also choose not to take the veterans preference just in case. my first job IT job in california, I ran into a parolee who was working as loss prevention for one of the large drugstore chains. I know that the military system is different from the normal criminal issues that many face, however it is federal and that may make it more difficult to look up a history. I have paid for a record check and came up with nothing on myself, but when i got a concealed weapons permit, it did reveal that there was an arrest, but no conviction from the FBI.

        • #3311236

          Combat Veteran wipes the slate Clean, in my opinion

          by rayeni ·

          In reply to Oh, how wrong you are!

          EOM

        • #3311183

          Tim McVeigh – Combat Vet

          by bucky kaufman (mcsd) ·

          In reply to Combat Veteran wipes the slate Clean, in my opinion

          That somebody has experience slaughtering people AND that they’ve been to prison – would turn me off, and just about anyone else with any sense.

          But using the “slaughtering people” part as the sole qualifier – that’s just nuts.

        • #3312216

          Sure

          by rayeni ·

          In reply to Tim McVeigh – Combat Vet

          I was refering to a combat veteran as someone who as served his country after conviction of a crime. Not someone who served their country first, and then committed a heinous crime.

          Tim McVeigh’s veterans status doesn’t wipe the slate clean. I am glad he got the pin. 🙂

        • #3312001

          Unless its minor crime Military Service doesn’t wipe the slate clean..

          by tomsal ·

          In reply to Sure

          IMHO, unless we are talking a minor crime like stealing $20, or traffic violations, upaid parking tickets, etc. Maybe even fraud if on a low level and not involving huge dollar amounts or ruining people’s lives (ie. you are busted for creating fraudulant (sp?) ID’s and selling them to teenagers to get into 21 and older clubs).

          But any serious or major crime…assault, rape, murder, molestation, bank robbery, etc….serve in a thousand wars, serve with honor and win all kinds of awards…you are still just a punk criminal in my mind who has no honor, diserves no respect.

        • #3311988

          Devil’s Details

          by bucky kaufman (mcsd) ·

          In reply to Sure

          re:
          I was refering to a combat veteran as someone who as served his country after conviction of a crime. Not someone who served their country first, and then committed a heinous crime.
          —– —– —– —– —–

          Aha – the devil is in the details. However, from what I understand – you can’t get into the military with a serious criminal record. Something about not being moral enough to kill people?

        • #3311955

          Has the UCMJ been suspended?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Combat Veteran wipes the slate Clean, in my opinion

          As a former Naval officer (USNA ’68), I am appalled that someone who purports to have served in uniform should advocate a position so completely at odds with the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

          However, in light of the egregious behavior of some of our troops abroad, such comes as no surprise.

          It is clearly evident that we have a severe problem with ethics within our armed forces.

          Small wonder that, to much of the world, we have once again become the Ugly Americans.

        • #3311998

          All depnds on the crime..

          by tomsal ·

          In reply to Oh, how wrong you are!

          I say if you stole a car without violence (wasn’t at gun point), you physically harmed no one AND then you did your time plus went through all you have to get a decent “working record” again AND you served your country..that you are “fine and I say good luck and I hope you are doing well”.

          However if you car jack the car with a gun, you physically hurt people in the process.

          Cry me a river…serve your country, etc.

          Doesn’t matter.

      • #2699639

        Too Bad

        by dsx inc. ·

        In reply to It can be done

        If you murdered someone you should not even be out of prison. I don’t know your circumstances, maybe it was self defense. But MURDER?
        I won’t lose sleep because you can’t get what you want. You get what you deserve. If it was MURDER, you don’t even deserve to be alive much less out of prison.

        • #2699631

          Too Bad responder

          by taxman1 ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          The man said homicide.

        • #2699626

          What do you mean “too bad”?

          by lancer2k ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          [off topic]
          This individual has been tried, convicted and has served their time. Would you reather they continue to drain society’s resources by remaining in jail or become a productive member of society?

          [/off topic]

          Personally I would only be concerned with a criminal background if it was something that may be related to the position. If, for example, you had been convicted of fraud, theft or another similar crime then I would be FAR MORE concerned.

        • #2699599

          Too Bad, and your free????

          by kriaken ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          You are kidding, its a shame when someone asks an honest question that they have to be faced with this sort of red neck right wing nut job idiocy.

          Having hired many ex-criminals (14) I feel qualified to say that you and your opinion are what is the matter with the world today. Go get an enema, it will help clear your mind. The next step for you is to take yourself to someone who can help treat your rampant self delusional feelings of inadequacy. Or the red neck version, your an idiot…

        • #2701948

          Are you serious?

          by itdude2004 ·

          In reply to Too Bad, and your free????

          There is nothing “redneck” about saying people who commit murder are bad people and should be executed. If this guy had murdered someone in your family, would you really want him enjoying life and a good career?

        • #2701945

          kill em all

          by business guy ·

          In reply to Are you serious?

          way to go. let nobody ever live anything down. hold it against them even though you know nothing about the situation. he spent 19 years (every day a torture) and instead of coming out and killing everyone he met (richly deserved), he decided to be a productive member of society. you should count your lucky stars punk.

          I despise people like you. Your prejudice and ignorance are responsible for more misery and injustice than 200 years of whatever the jails could produce.

          It is the likes of you that are the cause of the problems in the world, much less the country. Perhaps you should consider suicide. Do us all a favor.

          Hate you,

          🙁

        • #2701930

          What a loser…

          by itdude2004 ·

          In reply to kill em all

          you must be. Do you know this person? You certainly make the assumption that his every day was a torture. What are the circumstances of the crime? He refuses to divulge here.

          And murder is more than “oops, I made a mistake”. What about his victim? They were somebody’s son or daughter, and probably someones mother or father. But they don’t matter in your book, huh?

          Blow me….

        • #2701927

          The man said homicide

          by relaxdiego ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          He said homicide which does not necessarily mean murder. Get back on topic.

        • #2701923

          Reply to mmaglana

          by itdude2004 ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          Homicide IS murder. It’s called a synonym, dumbass.

        • #2701905

          absolutely right ITDude2004

          by warrior ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          IT,
          I could not have said it any better with such a short paragraph.

          Message to kill-em all,
          You are one scary tomato, reading your reply is exactly you. Please off yourself and save us the trouble. Thank God people like you are monitored by society. Asshole look up the word murder in the dictionary maybe it will enlighten you.

          Why don’t you invite O.J. Simpson over for a nights stay, but sleep with one eye open…and he was not even convicted. Length of confinement is not a measurement of redemption; it?s only how good of a lawyer you had.

          Kill-em all would hire all the be-headers in Iraq that are brutally chopping heads off, and welcomes them as his running mates. No better than that forgive them assholes dude. Dude you are a work of art, what a pot to piss in.

        • #2701903

          ITDude de-frocked

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          You publicly display both your ignorance & stupidity.

          1) Homicide & Murder are legal definitions, not physical ones. Hence, they are most definitely NOT the same. You do not get to re-define said terms to suit yourself.

          2) Your language is distinctly unprofessional, and brings disgrace to this forum.

          3) You are clearly an unforgiving & unempathetic person.

          4) Your chosen alias shrieks of egocentrism.

          The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

        • #2701760

          Reply to deepsand

          by itdude2004 ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=homicide

          Homicide and murder mean the same thing. Seriously, in your feeble mind, what is the difference?

          And I’m all for forgiving, but let’s not paint this guy as some sort of hero. He is a convicted murderer. That is just a fact.

        • #2701705

          From the Loser

          by business guy ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          Dear IT,

          You must be one of those who delight in anyone’s misery as long as you can feel superior.

          How do I know each day was torture? Well, you obviously will never be a rocket scientist.

          I don’t know the circumstances of this homicide, but I have a reasonable expectation that since he is not still in jail, there must have been other factors in mitigation.

        • #2701699

          addendum

          by business guy ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          sorry for the polysyllabic word.

          still hate you.

        • #2701055

          Which word(s) did you not understand

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          If you are going to speak in public, learn the facts and what is acceptable conduct, as well as how to construct a logical argument, based on facts in evidence, & then reach a conclusion supported by said facts.

          Gut based, emotional outbursts will not be well received.

          The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

        • #2701051

          Tommy, Deepsand

          by itdude2004 ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          Tommy: I was right, You are a loser. Florida drug convict, equates murder with stepping on a bug, and advocates lying to your employer. Luckily, you work at Best Buy. If that doesn’t work out, maybe McDonalds will hire you. Maybe. Burn in hell….

          Deepsand: Again, I pose the question, what in your feeble mind, differentiates homicide from murder? It is one in the same. That is just a simple fact.

          I now bid goodbye, for you 2 remind me of a saying…Never try to teach pigs to sing, because it wastes my time, and annoys the pigs…

        • #2701043

          Adieu, ITDude2004; we hardly knew you

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          Clearly, you choose to either not learn the facts or to ignore those that do not support your pre-drawn conclusion.

          I can only hope that you do not vote as well.

        • #2699539

          Same “blow me” attitude that I get

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          … when the worst I ever did was have a $10 bad check that I paid a couple weeks later.

          If you aren’t squeaky clean, you can’t get a job at most high and mighty places, even if you offer the HR or IT manager a blow job a day for the position.

        • #2714621

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to What a loser…

          It’s amazing how childish adults can be. Your views were valid (whether I agreed or not) until you ended with “blow me.” I remember in high school we used to talk like that, but as adults…???

        • #2699266

          Lesson in Law and Compassion

          by robotech ·

          In reply to Are you serious?

          JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE – That which is committed with the intention to kill or to do a grievous bodily injury, under circumstances which the law holds sufficient to exculpate the person who commits it.
          MURDER – In some of the states, by legislative enactments, murder has been divided into degrees. In Pennsylvania, the act of April 22, 1794, makes “all murder which shall be perpetrated by means of poison, or by lying in wait, or by any other kind of wilful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, rape, robbery, or burglary, shall be deemed murder of the first degree; and all other kinds of murder shall be deemed murder of the second degree; and the jury before whom any person indicted for murder shall be tried, shall, if they find the person guilty thereof, ascertain in their verdict, whether it be murder of the first or second degree; but if such person shall be convicted by confession, the court shall proceed by examination of witnesses, to determine the degree of the crime, and give sentence accordingly.

          With that said, let’s bear in mind that between these two extremes there are many areas that are neither black nor white (no pun intended). For this reason there exists sentencing guidelines in homicide, so that the jury or judge may determine a sentence sufficient for paying for the crime. As we learn more about the human mind, some types of homicide draw lesser sentences while others draw more.
          A proud IT worker who throws a banana peel outside his car (so as not to ruin the beautifull fragrance of the leather) and causes an old lady’s death, is to me more culpable than a humble grocery packer who in a rage stabs his wife because of infidelity. In the State where I live, many persons who pack groceries have diminished mental capacities, or learning disabilities. Nevertheless, if they commit a crime they should pay the price. The ‘IT Dude’ on the other hand has above-average mental capacity, and should thus realize what the consequences of his actions can be, thereby meriting a more severe sentence because of this fact.
          The punishment should fit the crime, not our anger. The point in sending someone to prison is to bring about reform, not to ruin that person’s life forever (unless his crime deserves it).
          Leave the eternal judgement to God.

        • #2714617

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Lesson in Law and Compassion

          Robotech, you’ve given the technical legal definitions. I don’t think that’s what the debate is about.

        • #2698872

          Out of Sequence Reply to a Real American

          by business guy ·

          In reply to Are you serious?

          Dear ITDupe,

          You are truly a real piece of work. Apparently you think that by castigating people (you DO know a few polysyllabic words don’t you) from the safety of anonymity, you are a better person.

          You are not. You are exactly the type of idiot who perpetuate stereotypes, extend animosities, and otherwise cause trouble throughout the world. History is full of people like you and will doubtless continue to have losers like you in the future.

          Make no mistake about it. You are part of the problem. Your warped sense of your place in the hierarchy of merit spreads hate and speaks volumes as to your own self-dislike. You haven’t the slightest idea of the truth behind what you criticise and yet you presume to judge others. Your type doesn’t even count and I only write this to you so that others can enjoy your discomfort.

          You see, Dude, we already know you.

          May you be endowed with all you deserve,

          Sincerely

          me

        • #2698671

          Right on!

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Out of Sequence Reply to a Real American

          As we used to say in the ’60s, “if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.”

          We’ve all met this type, and all too often. And, with few execeptions, they fancied themselves to be the paragons of virtue, not to mention ‘macho.’

          Anyone who refers to himself as ‘Dude’ is definitely clueless. Did it ever occur to him to seek out a dictionary before so labeling himself?

          Tommy, I see that you’ve masked your profile; if you’re so inclined, contact me at deepsand@verizon.net.

        • #2699170

          @ Kriaken

          by robo21 ·

          In reply to Too Bad, and your free????

          Funny, I thought the idiot was a LEFT-wing redneck nut-case. Other than that I agree with your post.

        • #2702433

          It can be done…

          by unixdude ·

          In reply to Too Bad, and your free????

          It can be done, but you are going to have to prove that you want to be a productive person. Go for the Certs.. they show what you really want to do. You cannot be idle and hope something comes to you. It is going to be a tougher road for you, but if you show people what you can do, they will try you out. You must also be totally honest with prospective employers up front, if they find you omitted something or covered something up they will think you are hiding things from them and they would rather not hire you. The public stigma of “felons” is a rather unpleasant one.. so you have to prove you are different in order to get past that.

        • #2701947

          Execute ’em

          by business guy ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          Dear too bad,

          fuck you. fuck you fully. please tell me where you live you slimey puke.

          🙁

        • #2701901

          ITDude re-visited?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Execute ’em

          Are you a clone of ITDude2004?

        • #2701662

          Dear Deepsand

          by business guy ·

          In reply to ITDude re-visited?

          God, I hope not. I would rather anything than be a clone of that enlightened being.

          Your heart seems to be in the right place at least. It is tough enough for any ex-con to make his/her way after such trauma, deserved or otherwise. One is limited to menial jobs, disenfrachisement as an institution (in 7 states) as well as the other “slings and arrows”.

          I was in for a so-called drug crime. I ran the blockade against what I still consider criminal laws. That was twenty years ago. I still cannot vote in the great state of Florida. You know Florida: the land of real estate scams, election fraud, telemarketing scams and hotrooms, and Jeb and his wife the smuggler who got caught. She did no jail time, big surprise.

          I didn’t murder anyone. Didn’t steal from anyone. In fact didn’t even break one of the ten commandments. Yet I feel for the originator of this discussion. Perhaps the judge did not give him a life w/o parole sentence for a reason. Maybe he was a teen at the time. Maybe it was vehicular. We don’t know, but one thing is for sure: He asked us for our opinions, meaning help, openly and honestly and that should be worth something.

          Hope I’m preaching to the choir.

          tommy

        • #2701188

          Mea Culpa

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Dear Deepsand

          Tommy, please accept my sincere apology. The placement in the thread, along with the brief content of your post, lead me to the wrong conclusion.

          As a victim of the very first ‘show trial’ in NY during Rockefeller’s war-on-drugs, even though a first-time offender, I personally experienced the September, 1991 riot at Attica. This, after having previously been a Midshipman at the US Naval Academy, has given me a unique perspective, having seen 2 very different closed societies, at polar extremes, from the inside; I see clearly the closed minds that are omnipresent, and the sad consequences thereof.

        • #2698878

          Guess What

          by business guy ·

          In reply to Mea Culpa

          You won’t believe this, but I was a former cadet at USAFA.

          I don’t envy you the Attica experience. You must be one heck of a survivor to have come through that! My admiration.

          Good Luck in All Things

          Tom

        • #2698731

          Out of sequence response

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Dear Deepsand

          Well, it is certainly the case that very few individuals have experienced the extremes that we have. And, quite frankly, given the unique perspective that I’ve gained, I cannot say with any degree of certainty that I would have changed any of it even if I could.

          Scary? You bet. But, after having ‘been to the wall,’ what once may have seemed to be major obstacles, problems, or fears suddenly become greatly diminished, and therefore much more manageable.

          In short, it has instilled a new sense of self confidence.

          I suspect that you may have experienced a similar transition.

          May the future be kind.

        • #2701816

          You’re a Goose Lloyd

          by frankyb ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          It is ppl like you that stop good ppl who have made a mistake( and admitted to it, and paid for it)from making a contribution to society. I would love to see what your past hides, I bet there is some nasty stuff there. Ever heard the quote ‘Some of the nicest blokes i have ever met were murderers’, well i know for a fact that this is true. Open your mind or crawl back under your rock. Either way leave ppl like sidvail who are open and honest alone.

        • #2701797

          are you god?

          by sleepydutchie ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          Thanks for judging us. you are the kind of person we are talking about, what gives you the wisdom to say someone should live or die (especially when you don’t know the circumstances.)
          By the way have you ever sqashed a bug, run over a cat…? maybe you should consider your own life not that of others?

        • #2701702

          Too Bad Again

          by dsx inc. ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          wow. nice responses. i especially love the red neck comments. funny considering i’m not even white.
          you whining , crying, sniveling liberal weanies….
          HE KILLED SOMEONE!!!!!
          Don’t give me that crap about serving his time. The only people who should be able to make that decsion is the family of the person HE KILLED!!!
          Oh yes, i have skeletons in my closet, we all do. But, i NEVER KILLED ANYONE!!!!!!
          Anyone here ever have a family member MURDERED(Homicide, whatever)? You would change your views.

        • #2699503

          Saying it like it is

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Too Bad Again

          Thanks Lloyd,

          You summed it up perfectly. I like the way these fools equate all crimes equally. Murder is Murder.

          I am not afraid of Sid for he is probably remorseful, and surely a lamb by now, but that does not bring a life back. If these dummies don’t know that, have them talk to the victim?s family.

          I am more afraid of guys like head in the sand and the likes. These are time bombs ready to go off at any time.

          Sure nobody is perfect and deserves a second chance yes, but with reservations. This guy can not live long enough to eradicate the evil nasty thing that he committed.

        • #2699178

          Brave Warrior is afraid?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Saying it like it is

          I hoped that your decision to withdraw from this discussion was for real; oh well.

          You still display the same continued inability to form a well reasoned and cogent argument. All mounth and no mind.

          The differnece between intelligence & stupidity is taht stupidity knows no limitations.

        • #2703163

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Saying it like it is

          Name calling certainly make your argument more pursuasive.

        • #2699113

          No i haven’t Lloyd

          by frankyb ·

          In reply to Too Bad Again

          A family member has died in anothers hands Lloyd, and no, my views are still the same…I hope you never have a car accident thats kills someone when you are at fault LLoyd, that would make you a murderer…then you might changed your mind…and no Lloyd, before you go jumping to conclusions, I have not killed anybody.

        • #2698917

          That’s not murder

          by dsx inc. ·

          In reply to No i haven’t Lloyd

          Sorry for your loss. Were they MURDERED or killed in some other way? Having an accident in a vehicle which takes someones life is not the same thing as MURDERING someone. MURDER implies intent. How you came up with that conclusion is beyond me.

        • #2713371

          Car Accident is Wrong

          by paul d. masley ·

          In reply to That’s not murder

          It is not a car accident. It is a crash. Most states have now changed their reorts to say Crash Report, because that is what it is. One, the other or both screwed up.

          If you are involved in a vehicle crash, it is your fault for the crash and you kill someone, it is murder. Most people in the “States” drive two ton weapons and their minds is not on what they are doing.

          A typical example is what I saw this several years ago. Forgive me ladies, but this a making a point in defense for the person that started this reply column.

          I was following a lady this morning on a bad strech of interstate. Traffic was tight. She had a cell phone in one ear, the mirror turned towards her and she was putting on her makeup. Well, she was. She was travelling above 85 mph (70 mph zone) and almost rear-ended an 18-wheeler. I bet the dumb b**** wet her pants. The bad thing about this is when she slammed on the brakes to avoid the truck, she slid into the other lane causing that driver to hit the barrier to keep from hitting her dumba**. The driver was killed that hit the barrier, his passenger (son)was paralyzed for life. She walked away with minor damage to her car and messed up makeup. As a witness, when I talked to the investigating officer, he told me the lady told him that the truck swerved, causing her to do that. After I told him what I had seen and her speed, the officer promptly arrested her charging her with first degree vehicular homicide (one step below 2nd degree murder, with other charges pending. He told me it should have been murder. At her court trial, she got six months probation and her license suspended for one year. My response to the judge in open court after her sentence (cost me $500.00) was BULLSHIT. She should have got a minimum of 20 years. She killed the guy and crippled his son just because apparently she could not get her sorry butt out of bed one hour earlier and do her face and make necessary phone calls. On top of that she carried minimum insurance required by the state. It would not even pay for the funeral for the guy, much less the medical bills incurred by his son.

          I know that this seems more like a rant than a reply, but I see sh** like this every day. I am an insurance adjuster. If the man has done his time as required, and it was something that was not done with intent, I feel that his record should be sealed and no one should have access to it. Now, the lady listed above should have to carry this the rest of her life as I feel this was negligent intent.

        • #2713313

          Actually, it is Vehicular Homicide

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Car Accident is Wrong

          Again, one must make the over-arching legal distinctions.

          Murder is a legal definition which incorporates several and various aggrevating circumstances.

          Lets go back to Logic 101:
          1) All Murders are Homicides;
          2) NOT all Homicides are Murder;
          3) SOME Homicides are Murder.

        • #2703158

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to That’s not murder

          That’s a direct contradiction to an earlier post. Ever hear of vehicular manslaughter. According to another poster, manslaughter, homicide, and murder are all the same thing. An just for your information, when a state puts someone to death, the cause listed on the death certificate is homicide. Any death at the hands of another whether intentional or not is considered homicide to some degree.

        • #2714623

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Too Bad Again

          If the family of the victim are the only ones to decide, why are you offering your views. You don’t speak for all of society. Oh and P.S., I’m no “liberal wienie” nor do I condone what he did. However, if in the eyes of the law he has paid his debt to society, then he should be given the opportunity to repent.

        • #2701095

          Define Murder

          by charlesjeffrey ·

          In reply to Too Bad

          A few years a go a man waited in an airport for the kidnapper & raper of his young son to be led through by fedral authorites, when they passsed by he shot & killed (murdered) the pervert then surrended peacfully. Feds had captured the man 1500 miles away with the boy, with plenty of physical evidence.

          Premeditated – yes; murder – yes; life without parole – no, give him 10% of the money he saved tax payers in court cost.
          note: rape used – molest does not cover the entire scope of the crime.

          Mother walks into a court with a gun, when the man who rapped her child was not to be sentenced to any real time (he was being protected because he was an informant), she shot & killed him (murdered) him, then dropped the weapon.

          Premeditated – yes; murder – yes; life without parole – no, inform her that she could have saved the people more money by shooting him when evidence first proved showed his guilt.

          Point, unless you know the circumstances of sidvail’s conviction your statements are over broad & prejudice – bring back the dueling system! Some people do need to be removed (murdered) to have a safe society.

        • #2699497

          eye for and eye

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Define Murder

          Yes your statements are true. In both of your cases it was just an eye for an eye. The Murdered(rapist) did not justify their killings. I am sorry you missed the boat here.

        • #2699254

          Understand the context of Eye for an Eye

          by robotech ·

          In reply to eye for and eye

          An Eye for an Eye appears in the Bible, but it was not the ultimate guide to the judges in ancient Israel. The “older men” were required to meet outside the city’s gates and have a trial based on the evidence/testimony presented.
          In fact, if it was determined that it was not premeditated murder, then the guilty party would be locked away in a city of refuge. He could only leave if the High Priest died, whether the high priest lived 5 months or fifty years more. If the person who killed left the city of refuge before the High Priest’s death, then a family member of the victim could avenge the death. On the other hand, if he avenged the death of his (only males could avenge the death of a relative) relative after the condemned person had legally left the City of Refuge, then the avenger would be guilty of murder and tried as such.
          Of course, if the High Priest died the following week, then the condemned person would have only spent a week in ‘jail’ for his crime. ‘OH THAT’S SO UNFAIR! you say. Well, we humans have a limited view of things. Most times we don’t see the big picture. The truly guilty person’s crime normally catches up with them, though not always within our time frame. We have to be careful how we judge, because the same judgement could be used against us. I’m not sure whether Sidvail’s story is real or not. What I am sure of though is that the moderators of this forum are doing a psychoanalysis of all these posts. Unfortunately, many of us who are more balanced in our thinking (trained in other areas apart from IT) are too busy to read much less participate in these forums. Reading through so many posts can also be tedious and a waste of time, and it has definitely turned me off from participating. As it turns out, I’m studying for my CCNA and so I took a break to participate in something I’ve always liked – LAW.

        • #2699177

          Warrior was never in the boat to begin with.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to eye for and eye

      • #2701821

        Criminal Background:

        by cornwiskey56 ·

        In reply to It can be done

        Gralfus. This is my openion if you have done your time and or trying to do what is right I’m sure someone will hire you. The need is out their and I think that a company that is looking for someone that can do the job, will give you a chance to see if you are right for them.
        A mans pass means a lot when you are looking for work, but if you can do the job within the 90 day try out then I’m sure you can fit right in. So good luck and don’t give up and keep up the good work you are doing.

      • #2702893

        Cheers to you !

        by mifflink ·

        In reply to It can be done

        I am an MCP and got cuaght up in an unfortunate incident that left me with a criminal background. I don’t know about anywhere else but here in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, it has been an issue. I’ve changed a lot since then, doesn’t matter though.

        Keep your head up, keep learning and get all the experience you can. I’m glad you work for a company where it is not an issue ! Kudos to you for not giving up !

    • #2692413

      Only one way to find out right?

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Firstly, I would never hold someone’s past against them, mine is rather sordid to say the least so who am I to judge?

      I will obviously be aware of someone’s past if it had a possibility of effecting me but it wouldn’t play a part in the hiring decision, unless the guy was a repeat offender that has never improved.

      Man, if my background had ever been checked (or if it mattered to anyone) I wouldn’t get a job at MacDonalds, so I can certainly appreciate your concern though.

      Now I am a bit of a hypocrite here becasue i am self employed (something you might want to consider with yoru certs).

      All I can suggest is call people, introduce yourself, apply for positions as yuou are asked to (not just sending out blind emails everywhere, I’ve yet to see that one work ONCE).

      I wouldn’t see a need to explani your past unless asked, yet again I wouldn’t withold information if I was being probed by a prospective employer.

      Funny but your career path so far is very similar to mine, I never intended to get into computing even, I hated computer geeks. I sort of fell into it as one person left, things needed to be done, nobody had any initiative and I learned the basics as needed. I eventually got my MCNE but only because an employer agreed to pay for it (plus pay me for my time in school).

      I left that company and nowe remote network for them and another former client of theirs, as well as a few smaller offices I picked up.

      It can be done, MANY will try and discourage you, as you’ve probably already found out, but all in all determination and will wins hands down everytime.

      You have shown that you have become a positive citizen and have achieved your certs, had some experience on the job (more important than someone just graduating with the latest knowledge by far!)and the fact that you’ve held your existing job for over 4 years, kudos, will be very positive marks on your ‘scorecard’.

      I don’t know why you would want to leave, other than money or some inner political reasons perhaps, but if you stay where you are and look for work you should find something without cashing in your chips first.

      As I said before though, to be successful in ANY job hunt for ANY industry, you must be dedicated, make the calls, get the appointments and show up ready for your interviews.

      I’ve have seen so many qualified people cimplain about being out of work when they show absolutely NO useful job search skills. If you want it, do it. If you get rejection, which everyone does regardles sof their past, don’t chalk it up as being due to your past, just keep going with a single focus,you can not and will not lose.

      Best of luck,
      OM

    • #2692340

      Go for it!

      by jennifer.gardner ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I say go for it! But if at all possible, don’t leave your current position until you have another already lined up. And do your best to not burn any bridges in case you ever need to go back. Oz_Media suggested self-employment, and that might be an excellent route to take. Have you given that any thought? You know that YOU won’t let your past get in your way.

      • #2699854

        Hey!

        by curetgabriel ·

        In reply to Go for it!

        Let me tell u… I was a drug addict. Now’s day, I have my own company and my main supplier (Computer Supplyer) knows my back ground, he was my heighbor back in the old day’s. Don’t give up on ur dreams hommy! Keep it up, don’t let go ur dreams!!!!!!!!!

    • #2692325

      You life is now on the right path – Go for it –

      by jimhm ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      You have turned yourself around – with 4 years of examplatory(sp) service to a company. The felony – may hold you back to a few companies – others will look at it as you made a mistake and have paid and turned your life around.

      The only way to find out – is to try it – if not it sounds like the company you are working for is pretty dam good. Send out a few resumes – be open and honest that for 19 years you were in jail – during the interviews answer the question open and honestly – I did this – I have turned my life around and have had 4 progressive years of service with this company. Also let your boss know you sniff the field – that may modivate them to move you into the IT area as well at your current employer.

      Best of luck and best wishes for a successful future.

    • #2692256

      All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

      by dc_guy ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I would ask a lot of questions. I would have already found out as much as I could about the crime and your background. Now I will use my people skills to size you up and see if I’d be comfortable having you around; it’s as simple as that.

      I expect honest answers to my questions. I expect you to be able to tell me what circumstances compelled you to commit murder. I expect you to be able to tell me what has changed in your life to make both you and me 100% confident that you will never react to a situation with violence again — not necessarily murder, I don’t even want you to scream at someone you’re mad at or throw your PC out the window if you’re having a bad day. And honestly I would probably cut anyone else on my staff some slack if they did that once. But you will be held to a higher standard because as far as I’m concerned you already had your “one chance” and it was a doozy.

      I expect that you’ve had a lot of therapy and are a different person now. Finding religion won’t cut it at all with me because personally I don’t believe that the major religions actually deter people from committing violence. But another employer may feel differently so if you found enlightenment through religion apply at their company but not mine.

      I know that unlike rape, murder is generally a crime of passion and you are actually very unlikely to do it again. If you did it as a gang thing I’d feel pretty uneasy, but you are 20 years older and maybe you don’t think like a homie any more. I would never hire a rapist or even make peace with one living in my neighborhood.

      Frankly I am as concerned with the attitudes and habits (and diseases) you may have picked up in prison as I am with your crime. Sadly, prison makes a lot of people worse.

      I hope you appreciate my candor. I think I speak for a lot of people and perhaps this will help you in your search.

      Good luck, and I mean it. If I were a manager right now (I’m not), I’d be happy to give you a chance at an interview.

      • #2700629

        Religious bigotry

        by steelville ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        DC_GUY: “..personally I don’t believe that the major religions actually deter people from committing violence. But another employer may feel differently so if you found enlightenment through religion apply at their company but not mine..”

        My, such bigotry! That is also ignorance, not necessarily your fault, since it is a heavily censored area in the “major media” nowadays. (I have personal Would you say that about “secular” programs? “Major religions” is one thing, but the previous poster referred to Jesus Christ, not any “major religion”.

        That said, go ask somebody who works in the real trenches.

        That said, I worked as a Christian missionary. When I made that decision, it meant giving up not only illegal drugs, but a possible future in some violent movement.

        During the time in the “field”, I worked next to an <> ex-drug dealer, <> an ex-heroin addict (who shook it off in a 24-hour sleep when he joined the work), <> an ex-prostitute, <> an ex-illiterate who had learned how to read there, <> a former Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback who had been an alcoholic and wandered off from his family till he met us, and such really bad folks as <> an FBI agent who had been sent to investigate this Christian group and had resigned to join the work for real, <> an heir to one very major bank fortune (you’d know the name) whose inheritance was cut off for doing this.

        Of Chuck Colsen, people who knew him before Watergate and his prison time where he “became a Christian”, said he would kill his own grandmother for anything, and that he’s different. Nicky Cruz is another famous example, New York gang member, now helping others. I met one of his ex-convict-type fruits, also now helping in such works.

        Then there was John Newton, 19th century slave trader, who was so anguished over his past that he fiercely fought the practice after being “born again” and helped end it. He’s the one who penned the now reknowned hymn “Amazing Grace”. “..how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me..”

        Visit your local Salvation Army and get an education!

        >> That all said, also, at one time I came back from Latin America and saw a piece of news where maximum-security prisoners in Missouri were being taught computer programming, and another one where they were taken to the Ozarks wilds and taught survival! Now that was a really daffy decision! Sheesh!

        This poster can tell you that too. Few get to where this one is now.

        • #2699846

          that’s utterly ridiculous

          by valis ·

          In reply to Religious bigotry

          are you saying that no christian can commit a crime? if so, you’ve seriously lost touch with reality.

          the poster’s response had nothing to do with “bigotry”, it had everything to do with pure logic, and undisputable FACT. people of all religions, yes even christianity, commit crimes. and yes, even murder.

          valis

        • #2699826

          Yes bigotry is involved, look at statistics

          by jbtayl ·

          In reply to that’s utterly ridiculous

          Nobody is perfect and you can’t be guaranteed that somebody is what they say they are. But, statistics show significantly lower repeat offenses by ex-cons that have gone through programs run by Prison Fellowship vs. the general prison population.

          I think bigotry does play into a refusal to consider this.

        • #2699745

          Get Real!

          by pmwpaul ·

          In reply to that’s utterly ridiculous

          Anybody can claim to be reformed; there’s no cert or Letter from God. Accepting God helps you to live with your life, not work with your past.

          Felony criminals have less than a 50% success rate.

          A network administrator has access to 100% of the company’s confidential information. If the company is doing e-commerce they can be held liable for any credit card information that gets out.

          To make it to a network administrator position, you’ve got to EARN IT! On the job, produce, learn and contribute. These will out-weigh your past but your past will always be there. Going into a new company your past will have more meaning so you have to be squeaky-clean for a long enough period of time to convince others.

          Yes, you can do it. But you’ve got to EARN IT.

        • #2699827

          Misunderstanding

          by chug ·

          In reply to Religious bigotry

          While I agree that DC_GUY could have worded it a bit differently, I think you misunderstood what he was saying. He isn’t saying that religion is bad. He’s just saying that religion alone is not a qualification that this person has turned their life around. If the applicant says “I’ve found Jesus” (or any other religion) and expects his past to be forgotten based purely on that, the applicant is sadly mistaken. It needs to be backed up by honest detailed information about the past circumstances and how the applicant has changed to make the hiring person feel 100% confident that the past won’t be an issue. Yes, many people do find religion and turn their lives around, but many don’t.

      • #2700628

        Religious bigotry

        by steelville ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        DC_GUY: “..personally I don’t believe that the major religions actually deter people from committing violence. But another employer may feel differently so if you found enlightenment through religion apply at their company but not mine..”

        My, such bigotry! That is also ignorance, not necessarily your fault, since it is a heavily censored area in the “major media” nowadays. (I have personal Would you say that about “secular” programs? “Major religions” is one thing, but the previous poster referred to Jesus Christ, not any “major religion”.

        That said, go ask somebody who works in the real trenches.

        That said, I worked as a Christian missionary. When I made that decision, it meant giving up not only illegal drugs, but a possible future in some violent movement.

        During the time in the “field”, I worked next to an <> ex-drug dealer, <> an ex-heroin addict (who shook it off in a 24-hour sleep when he joined the work), <> an ex-prostitute, <> an ex-illiterate who had learned how to read there, <> a former Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback who had been an alcoholic and wandered off from his family till he met us, and such really bad folks as <> an FBI agent who had been sent to investigate this Christian group and had resigned to join the work for real, <> an heir to one very major bank fortune (you’d know the name) whose inheritance was cut off for doing this.

        Of Chuck Colsen, people who knew him before Watergate and his prison time where he “became a Christian”, said he would kill his own grandmother for anything, and that he’s different. Nicky Cruz is another famous example, New York gang member, now helping others. I met one of his ex-convict-type fruits, also now helping in such works.

        Then there was John Newton, 19th century slave trader, who was so anguished over his past that he fiercely fought the practice after being “born again” and helped end it. He’s the one who penned the now reknowned hymn “Amazing Grace”. “..how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me..”

        Visit your local Salvation Army and get an education!

        >> That all said, also, at one time I came back from Latin America and saw a piece of news where maximum-security prisoners in Missouri were being taught computer programming, and another one where they were taken to the Ozarks wilds and taught survival! Now that was a really daffy decision! Sheesh!

        This poster can tell you that too. Few get to where this one is now.

      • #2700626

        I would not!

        by the witch ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        Here in South Africa we deal with violent crime as a daily part of our living and having been subjected to this environment and having to fire people on two occassions for theft, has conditioned me into not giving anyone a second chance. It is a case of living with the consequences of your actions for example like contracting HIV nothing is going to wipe your “mistake” in contracting the disease and therefore you have to live with the consequences innocently or guilty. The only way you could make a living in the networking or IT business is by being entrepeneurial and offering your services from a business point of view.
        However, I wish you well and may you find your niche in life.

        • #2699682

          Well, I disagree. No one is perfect on this earth

          by james wilson ·

          In reply to I would not!

          I think it would be on a case by case bases. I can’t see someone giving no chance at redemption because we’ve all done something wrong (on some level or another). If I look hard enough, I can see something you (and any one) has done that effects someone else. I can say this, if there is no chances given, then what other route will a person take? Think about it. If you take all avenues away from a person, then you will give them no other choice but to survive the only way they have a chance to survive, but if you give them a chance to go a good path (with checks and balances) then they can move in that direction.

        • #2699165

          There it is…..

          by gaijinit ·

          In reply to Well, I disagree. No one is perfect on this earth

          James,
          Kudos to you, I couldn’t have said it better in a million words. I wonder how quickly some of these opinionated fools would change their story if they found themselves in the same situation as sidvail? Would they feel that they should also ‘burn in Hell forever’ as some of them have said?
          It seems like for every person who takes the time to think things through, there are a dozen others with no thought to the implications of their attitudes. Hatred has such fertile soil to sink its roots in and thrive.
          Thanks for keeping the voice of reason alive.

        • #2701900

          Appropriate alias

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to I would not!

          Your name says it all.

      • #2699920

        Human Resources

        by thebooch ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        This is your biggest hurdle to get past in most mid-to large sized organizations. I have a difficult getting qualilfied non-degreed professionals through the HR screening process nevermind someone that has done a quick minute for any crime. Last larger company I worked at disqualified candidates based on their credit history!

      • #2699892

        A well thought out response.

        by gmoore ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        I too would be willing to at least hear the guy out, but I would have to have total confidence in your ability to handle pressure, people, company expectations, etc… I would be held responsible if you did have a violent confrontation with your co-workers. I also agree that religion is often used to mask repressed emotions and is an inadequate vehicle for dealing with most of lifes frustrations; it is also used by people to help convince the world that they are reformed. The business world is not a place to seek religious expression, but to seek personal and financial growth. If you seeking these, then maybe we can work together.

      • #2699811

        he’s already served his time

        by webdvlpr ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        First of all – it would be a yes or no answer if you were the hiring manager. You wouldn’t have the right to ask him any of the questions about the circumstances of his crime. Your comment, “maybe you don’t think like a homie anymore” is the most ridiculous ignorant comment I’ve heard in a long time. Hello…it’s 2004.

        • #2703962

          Rights?

          by admin17 ·

          In reply to he’s already served his time

          First of all – it is a yes or no answer. In order to come to that yes or no, however, it is the smart, responsible, and generally good thing to ask about the circumstances pertaining to the crime. As to the rights issue, when one is convicted of a major felony (e.g. Homicide, Murder (There is a difference by definition), Rape, Imbezzlement, Fraud, etc.), that person gives up the right to, say, own a gun or to vote, or to have that part of their life kept secret. Honest answers about this topic would go a long way to establishing whether or not you were capable of being an employee.

          As far as the “maybe you don’t think like a homie anymore” comment, I believe that it was meant as a figure of speech (i.e. “it’s raining cats and dogs”). Literary elements aside, that statement does go a long way in summing up what this much of discussion is about: determining whether or not an ex-convict can or cannot pursue a career in IT. If one has TRULY rehabilitated (i.e. not thinking like a “homie”) and learned one or more valuable lessons from their experiences, then I personally would have no problem hiring this person.

        • #2703916

          Rights vary by state

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Rights?

          The right of a convicted felon to vote vary greatly, from losing said right forever to being allowed to vote even while imprisoned!

          The right to bear arms can be regained though petition to the Federal courts.

          As for your right to inquire as to an applicant’s criminal background, this too is regulated on a state-by-state basis. Generally, such regulations provide that:
          1) You may not, in any manner whatsoever, inquire about certain crimes; and,
          2)For those which you are allowed to inquire about, such right to inquire expires after a specified period of time has elapsed.

          Most small to medium sized businesses are unaware that the criminal records of applicants are not open to de facto scrutiny.

      • #2699804

        When did religion enter this discussion?

        by scubaboy ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        DC_Guy, as usual, is offering hiring advice from someone not qualified to give it. When did religion enter into this discussion?

        I am a manager who interviews scores and hires dozens of people for technical positions each month. If you bring religion into the interview, you are DONE. Religion is a PERSONAL issue, and anyone who feels the compulsion to bring their views of the invisiable man in the sky into a work environment is not someone who will be working for my organization. Just as I don’t care about your sexual proclivities or other personal activities, religion has absolutely no place in the workplace, unless you are applying for a job with a religious organization. The more I hear about your religious beliefs, the more I know that you will be a disruption in my organization with those beliefs.

        Concentrate on your skill set, and do some things to prove your technical expertise. Certifications are ABSOLUTELY no proof of capability, they simply mean that you have appeased the marketing machine of Microsoft, Cisco or whoever. The proof is in the pudding, not the certs. I see around 100-150 resumes per week. I see so many people who have MCSE, CCNA, etc, but have no proven track record doing the nitty-gritty work – I throw those resumes in the circular file right away. Any idiot can pay some cert mill to give them an MCSE or other meaningless certification; decent hiring managers know this and see right through it.

        Volunteer for a non-profit or other organization, and actually DO SOMETHING. Being able to say in an interview that you set up a company intranet, set up security on a network, etc., will serve you a thousand times better than a paper certification.

        Did I let the cat out of the bag? Certifications mean NOTHING without a proven track record of IT knowledge and performance. I fell into the same school of thought years ago, and busted my butt getting several certs. But it was ONLY my technical knowledge and problem-solving capabilities that got me hired and promoted, not the marketing BS that is certification.

        As to your past errors? Some companies will be horrified, some will be more enlightened. You certainly face an uphill battle, but again, only proven technical skills will overcome this, not certifications. I personally have hired people with less-than-perfect backgrounds, including manslaughter, homicide and drug offenses. Why did I decide to take a chance on them? Because they were so technically solid that the criminal background became insignificant compared to the skills and assets being brought to my company. So get out there and prove yourself, in the real world, not in some certification classroom.

        Good luck in your quest, and keep the faith. You served 19 years and hopefully have atoned for your sins. Put it behind you and move forward!

        “Those Who Can, Do. Those Who Can’t Get Certified”!!!

        • #2699715

          Thanks

          by sidvail ·

          In reply to When did religion enter this discussion?

          ScubaBoy – thank you.

          I like to think that I’m qualified, as I’ve done everything from building our company website, working with our buyers group to incorporate e-commerce, totally redesigned our infrastructure and rolled out a new point of sale. (boy, what a pain, lol)

          Still, my past and my personal guilt has kept me from pursuing this field. I still have this feeling that certs would prove something – I’m glad you’ve put that in perspective.

          Thank you for your optimism and advice.

        • #2701023

          Glad to help, keep it up!

          by scubaboy ·

          In reply to Thanks

          Sounds like you’re already proving experise, so just keep it up. Make sure that your resume reflects this variety of technical skills, and in a format business hiring managers understand – projects, goals met, results achieved. Don’t load the resume with too much techie jargon or too many network acronyms – they mean nothing to most people who do the initial screening. Talk in broad terms about technologies and platforms, but avoid getting into the nitty-gritty in your resume. You can discuss the technical details in the interview, and be prepared to possibly answer some frank questions.

          Remember: The resume gets you the interview, the interview gets you the job!

          Good luck, keep us informed. 🙂

        • #2699632

          When did religion enter this discussion responder

          by taxman1 ·

          In reply to When did religion enter this discussion?

          I agree with you that nothing personal should be discussed at an interview, whether it is religion, politics or favorite foods.

          Something you should ask yourself though. Would you rather have employees with no morals and scruples or ones that have a God and strive to have eternal life?

        • #2701261

          Jesus Christ Got Into the Discussion

          by ububbaron ·

          In reply to When did religion enter this discussion responder

          Jesus Christ got into the discussion at the very beginning because sidvail and others are facing insurmountable problems that appear hopeless. A goodly portion of this cadre wants to put the guy to death without knowing much about his story. Jesus Christ specializes in the tough jobs. It is not about bringing HIM into the discussion in the work place or during the interview. It is about trusting HIM to get you through all the overwhelming negative sentiments that sidvail is likely to face in just getting the interview in the first place. Not to mention the getting around all these people who would rather see you dead.

          The “self made man” and “you can do anything you put your mind too” are common myths. Jesus said “without me, you can do nothing.” Hard words to digest, but true nonetheless and someday, follower or not, everyone will know their truth.

          By the way, I am a firm beleieve in capital punishment and so is God. But circumstances do make a difference and we are for now subject to the government that we have allowed to rule over us. So when a guy serves his time, I gotta assume he has paid his price. The Golden Rule – Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

          Boy, oh Boy, oh Boy, that Jesus has a lot of great ideas! sidvail, I’d rather have HIM in my corner than an MSCE by itself. With Christ, you can have both.

        • #2699033

          Don’t need religion to have morals

          by akabak ·

          In reply to When did religion enter this discussion responder

          Some of the most moral and upstanding people I know do not espouse any particular religion. Sometimes choosing your own morality and standing by it means more than accepting a predetermined morality. “First do no harm.” Considering how many of my personal rights some upstanding Christians want to curtail, I’d say I have the upper hand on morality despite being areligious.

        • #2703150

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to When did religion enter this discussion responder

          Your statement presumes that everyone believes in God. And, the fact that someone doesn’t believe in God doesn’t make them a bad person either. In reality you most likely won’t know about an individuals moral standing until after you’ve hired them.

        • #2699565

          Well said.

          by danielsaotome ·

          In reply to When did religion enter this discussion?

          Finally, someone sees certification EXACTLY the way I see it. I honestly thought I was alone for a long time. Wow! Thank you.

        • #2699557

          Now that you have said it, check your rear-view mirror!

          by scubaboy ·

          In reply to Well said.

          In my experience, most experienced IT managers with more than two or three years on the job realize this. The unfortunate part is that due to the marketing, etc. regarding certification, most managers learn this the hard way early on – they hire a cert junkie, then have an actual, real problem – and Mr. Certs can’t fix it. An expensive, indelible lesson.

          Now that we’ve dared speak evil of the major certifications, will the Cisco Hit Squad take us out? 🙂

      • #2699741

        Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

        by boyd ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        Not hard to see why you’re not a manager…

      • #2701786

        Well said DC_Guy

        by sunnywillshine ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        I suggest that people stay open-minded when faced with these situations and give the applicant an opportunity to explain before crossing him/her off the list.

        Twenty years ago, my husband committed homicide… justifiable homicide while protecting his family from 3 drunks who had randomly selected them to terrorize and torture. I am proud of my husband for how he handled this horrible situation – he may have taken a life (accidently, I might add), but he saved 3 other lives that have gone on to become productive members of society. Had his employer simply blown him off as a “murderer”, the company would never have known the 14 years of valuable and dependable service he has provided to them. Nor would our children have been able to enjoy the decent lifestyle that he has worked hard to give them.

        Now, I can’t say that I would be too keen on bringing in someone who killed out of rage or jealousy, or even as a senseless or random act. As a manager, you have to think about how bringing someone with this kind of criminal background into your organization will affect EVERYONE on your team and how their attitudes will affect productivity. You also must think about all of your employees’ safety… including the safety of this applicant. We’ve already seen from the replies on this message board that this is a hot topic for some people – can you imagine if these folks had to work together??? Geez!

      • #2713369

        I Would Too

        by paul d. masley ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        Way to go DC. I feel exactly the same as you do. I would ask a lot of questions and more that likely request permission to review the case, but since he has held a job for four years, that would definately carry a lot of wait.

        I would probally put him on probation for 180 days, letting him know the circumstances of the probation and once that was over, that would be it, over. The job would be his with advancement as he qualified. There would be one restriction to his employment though, he would not be allowed to tell anyone in the company about his past. Absolutely no one, regardless of who ask.

        I do believe in giving a person a second chance. I am one that was given that chance. I am now second in command in the company that I work for. I have full trust of the owner, not the boss, but the owner. I can ask for anything and if it is in reason, it is no problem. Actually, I got a quite suprise earlier this year. A nice bonus, a new company car and a company credit card. It took ten years and now the owner is helping me expunge my record. It will be expensive, but I was told not to worry about it.

        So keep on plodding, if I can do it, so can you.

      • #2703157

        Re:

        by vltiii ·

        In reply to All I can tell you is how I would react to you as an applicant

        How you would react to this guy is nice, but we do have laws that govern what you can and cannot ask an applicant during a job interview.

    • #2692227

      Thanks everyone

      by sidvail ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I appreciate your replies. I’ve always thought it would be a minor roadblock myself. And that’s thinking of the security issues of dealing with company data, passwords, etc. – rather than the personal fears and biases of the employers themselves. I’ve actually been accepted and treated way better than I had thought possible, and had fears of, as I was preparing for release. I thank everyone for that – and yes, my boss also for taking a chance with me.

      As stated earlier, I’d like to move into the IT field fulltime. My company is too small to staff it fulltime – and I’ve moved up as far as I can where I’m at. I’m in no hurry to go anywhere, but I do see a need for it eventually. Hence my question of should I pursue this vocation. So far, I’ve been encouraged to do so.

      I thank you all for your advice and encouragement. I don’t expect it to be an easy job – but I do look forward to the experience.

      Networking rocks! 🙂

      • #2700636

        If it works..

        by jcfenner ·

        In reply to Thanks everyone

        sidvail – I have been battling with similar background issues, and becasue of my fear that I could not get a good job, I have allowed myself to go unrewarded. Instead of getting paid, I do full-time volunteer work at a non-profit (I have a disability income). I want to get certified and have been taking classes off and on for many years. I am good at what I do, just afraid of the rejection. I’d like to hear how it comes out for you. Good luck.

        • #2699707

          Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

          by sidvail ·

          In reply to If it works..

          Wow. I wish you the best of luck.

          So far I’ve been treated very well. And can you believe these posts here? OMG. I just came back to post another question and find that I’m the featured member – and this post has generated so many replies. This shows that there are alot of forgiving people willing to give us a chance.

          I am so impressed and humbled. I don’t know what to think, except WOW!

          Like I said earlier – NETWORKING ROCKS!
          As do networkers. LOL.

      • #2701273

        Focus People Focus!!

        by scriggly ·

        In reply to Thanks everyone

        Aside from all the theological debates and whether or not you should be executed, I think that the common thread is: Try it. You cannot succeed without trying. While a decision you made in your past is affecting your future (gee, who doesn’t have one of those in their life?), you can and will get through it. You will face barriers and rejection and judgemental people, but you also seem to have the right attitude. Unfortunately, the decision you made in the past is a large one to overcome, but you know that, and I know you can make it. Keep trying.

        Focussing on your question…yes, you can become an IT admin. After all, you have a job now right? 4 years of good experiences and hopefully good references will help you on your way. Best of luck.

      • #2701121

        Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to Thanks everyone

        I see enough replies that Im sure everything has been covered, but I would like to add my bit.

        I have worked in IT for… well a long time now. I have had fingerprints taken, drug tests, hand righting samples, FBI checks, credit checks, and Im sure other things Im not even aware of.

        We are put into a position of great power, more than most in management would guess. This mandates that the people we hire must have scruples. It does not require that people have to have clean records.

        To clarify. I don’t think any of the background checking told my employers if I would destroy data, divulge classified information, or read personal emails. It was required to secure the job, and I would NOT have the jobs on my resume without passing, but its sad that someone can be turned down for bad credit.

        I think you will face problems. The industries you look in will be limited. All the certs, and all the experience will not change a employers mind when the compliance department, security department, or any other internal department has a mandate.

        Look for smaller companies, and consulting. Don’t feel bad if a IT manager says “I would, but can’t” they are telling the truth. Specialize in something. You will not win a job on par with someone without a record.

      • #2700991

        References !

        by chris ·

        In reply to Thanks everyone

        Sidvail,

        In short – a couple certs will help! Without experience, a college degree, or certs – you better be engaged to the bosses daughter. These are no guarantee you will get a position, but they will help. One piece of advice I would give you – have a lot of references. I would even include my current employer.

        The only other advice I could offer is to stay in a position for a long time. Nobody likes someone that switches jobs every 6-8 months. I’ve turned away a number of people that haven’t been able to stay with a position longer then a couple months.

        Good luck!

        Chris

    • #2692214

      Not a problem…

      by techniquephreak ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      It looks to me like you have time working in your favor. Most employers ask whether or not you have been convicted of a felony in the past seven (7) years. Some ask about the last ten (10). You should answer truthfully, but you do not have to disclose extra information.

      I was convicted of a felony in 1992 and am currently the IT Director for a behavioral sciences research company. I also run my own consulting firm. My employer knows about my past, but my skills, performance, and loyalty speak for themselves. Heck, it actually worked to my advantage on more than one occasion (that’s the benefit of working with a bunch of psychologists).

      Good luck! If you’ve got the mad skills and the passion to excel in this field, your conviction should not hold you back. You definitely will NOT get a Top Security Clearance position, due to the extensive background checks they perform, but you should be able to do just about anything else. In any industry.

    • #2692201

      A few things…

      by mrafrohead ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      First off, if you are a changed person, you are a changed person. Make sure that you let whoever needs to know that, know. Of course, only if you need to. I wouldn’t just tell people, but if it’s brought up, I wouldn’t hide it either. That’s the past and hindsight is a bitch. ;p

      Second, as far as I know, you only have to report that type of thing on your app if asked for a certain amount of years. I think where I’m at it’s seven years. After that, you no longer have to add it to the app if asked.

      Just remember, check on the laws where you are, or will be at. Make sure you’re in the right, and don’t lie. If you do lie, it can be grounds for dismissal.

      I can say me personally, if I were doing the hiring. I would look at your qualifications and whether or not you are trust worthy, as I would with any other person. What is done in the past is the past. Unless you are a repeat offender, I personally see that as you learned your lesson or realize that you made a mistake and let by gones be by gones.

      Good luck!

      Mrafrohead

    • #2734775

      Try your own business.

      by basilmac ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Since you have paid for the wrong, you might think of starting your own business and hire on as a contractor instead of an employee. some managers look at the record of the past and not the abilities and the character of the preson in the present.

      Best of Luck,
      Basil

      • #2699366

        I agree – be your own boss

        by dad8384 ·

        In reply to Try your own business.

        most businesses when they hire an outside contractor do not check backgrounds. I’ve been doing this for 20+ years and my customers are happy to get good service. They couldn’t care less what I did in the past – only what I’ve done for THEM lately! I could work more housrs than are in a day if I chose, and hire an entire stable of programmers. No one would even check. Don’t let the past define who you are.

        • #2699159

          Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

          by sidvail ·

          In reply to I agree – be your own boss

          Thanks M,
          I’ve always wondered if I could do it on my own. Something to think about.

    • #2734763

      Not Healthcare

      by gsg ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I hate to say it, but don’t apply anywhere in Healthcare. Current regulations require background checks, and in most states, Hospitals cannot hire people that have been convicted of certain crimes. Check your local regulations if you want to think about going this route. I have to commend you on your desire to move on. That takes a lot of strength. You might want to look into some sort of small business where you can provide IT support for other small businesses and for private users. We have several of these locally that are extremely successful!

      • #2700615

        Healthcare is Still Possible

        by bitmeister ·

        In reply to Not Healthcare

        While current regulations do require background checks these requirements typically apply to individuals applying for clinical positions. Clinicians will have access to patients, medications, etc. and these pre-employement background checks are important.
        Most of these checks do include a criminal records check through the state which will surely list your conviction but should not prevent getting hired unless the company has an explicit policy forbidding hiring convicted felons in an IT position.
        With any position you do get, expect to be under the microscope more than others in the office. Of course this will make it more obvious to management when you do excel on projects and assigned tasks. Be sure to compliment your NOS training with security training, they compliment each other, and businesses need people with these combined skills! Good Luck! 🙂

        • #2699797

          Healthcare is Still Possible

          by money ·

          In reply to Healthcare is Still Possible

          I agree you would still have a chance in healthcare. In Texas homocide is listed as non-hireable by the state, however the exception is that you have not had any offenses or have been off porbation or out of jail for five years. When applicants would come and apply, I would run the criminal history checks, any flags, then I would send them over to the District Attorney’s office to get a letter stating that they did not have any pending or activity less than five years, that would prevent them from being hired. This worked well. The State and Federal inspectors would pull files for new hires in a given period and this would be in their files. This seems like extra work for HR but I feel like others that Jesus is the One. My moral responsibility is to care for my “brother”. This does not mean that everyone that does this was hired. We had a young man that had got hooked on drugs after his daughter was murdered and served his time. We hired him in the kitchen. Come to find out he was just a few hours needed to take the electrician’s exam. We contacted someone we knew who worked him part time to aquire those hours. With the letter from the DA and this friend he is now a licensed electrician.

    • #2734758

      I would hire you.

      by !thebear ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Once you pay your debt to society, so remorse and turn your life around you deserve a chance. Besides only the ‘rich’ are inncocent in court anyway. The average guys like us can’t afford a OJ
      Simpson dream team.

      I have 6 servers, 300+ PC’s, bunches of network printers, CISCO and Cabletron Switches.

      …GOOD LUCK…

      • #2701713

        Forgiveness

        by business guy ·

        In reply to I would hire you.

        Congratulations!

        You are one of the few in this forum who seems to have the idea.

        Small-mindedness is not a good characteristic-even in those who have not been caught yet. It’s too bad we have to put up with them, but it’s a democracy for now.

        As one of the survivors of America’s shame, I thank you for your attitude.

        tommy

    • #2734755

      In a perfect world…

      by jp5472 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      In a perfect world, a person does something in their past, pays their debt to society, shows continued rehabilitation, and continues on a path of growth in contributing to society…then there is reality…especially in this “fear” crazed society we live in now. I know from my own experiences that THERE ARE PLACES THAT RUN A BACKGROUND CHECK AND WON’T EVEN PURSUE A CANDIDATE ANY FURTHER IF THERE ARE FELONIES OR ANY PENDING CASES INVOLVING A FELONY CHARGE. This is the company policy-nothing to do with handling money, top-secret information, or access to company records and priviliged information. Now with the panicked society we live in, and with the Patriot Act and every other scandal possible under the sun (ie Arthur Anderson, Ernst and Young, Tyco, Enron, WorldCom), I suspect more and more companies will be looking for immaculate records. I wish you the best as there still are companies that will hire, but in this depressed market it has to be tough. If you didn’t live in Alaska, I’d give you a real look in an interview. I’m in the Philadelphia area.

      • #2700624

        Why not?

        by gaijinit ·

        In reply to In a perfect world…

        You have a real concern that deserves an honest
        answer, and there is a lot to consider. Some have told
        you America is a paranoid society, but I think peole are
        simply less naive than before, and more informed.
        But others have told you that you paid for your
        mistake, and that was 19 years ago. I agree withh this
        1000%. That’s a hell of a long time to think things over
        and make chooices about your life. It sounds to me like
        you picked one of the few fields that would give you a
        chance to improve your chances through self-study. A
        lot of IT people see themselves as ‘mavericks’, working
        within corporate environments but maintaining their
        sense of independence and personal pride through the
        professional respect they get from the knowledge they
        have worked hard to obtain. In that sense, you would
        be working with people usually with higher-than-
        average intelligence and not too quick to judge others.
        If I were interviewing you, I think I would ask you
        about your present attitude, what are your aspirations
        and were you willing to work as hard as everyne else,
        and that’s it. EVERYBODY screws up when they’re
        young, and how much you screw up is almost always
        influenced by the situation or environment you were in
        when it happened.
        I firmly believe people have a choice, and should pay
        for their mistakes. You have paid for your mistake over
        and over. I cannot even imagine the shit you had to put
        up with in prison and still managed to get around it
        enough to improve yourself and look to a better life
        instead of embracing bitterness and giving up. And I
        believe you would be much less likely than most
        people to do anything to get yourself in trouble again,
        since you only too well understand the repercussions.
        You have made your choice, and you should look
        forward and upward.
        I wish you all the best of luck – I only offer this advice –
        take it as you will or not, it is just an opinion, no better or
        worse than anyone else’s – stand on your own, never
        stop learning and growing, and live your life in a
        productive way. You lost a lot of years, but just as you
        hope people will not judge you for your mistake, I hope
        you can also not harbor bitterness about your life up to
        now – you can still have a good one, and I hope you
        do.
        I think the least you deserve is a fair chance to prove
        yourself just like anyone else. Best of luck to you, it was
        braver than anaything I could have done just to put
        yourself on the line and ask people to give you their
        comments. Stay strong.

        • #2699882

          What’s Past is past

          by clavius ·

          In reply to Why not?

          Murder is mostly a one-time thing according to the statistics and you had 19 years to think about that end of it. Knowledge and attitude is everything to my way of hiring people because I believe in those two conditions above everything else. I would determine in the interview whether or not I would hire you because I would have already investigated everything else about you including your prison time. I was known as an unconventional man during my working life [I am retired] and did hire some truly unusual people in my time. I would have no problem in dealing with your past.

        • #2699666

          Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

          by sidvail ·

          In reply to Why not?

          Gaijin, thank you. Your post touched on a few things that I take to heart.

          True about toeing the line. I know what it is to be incarcerated. Never want that again. But even more important is that I know what I did. And like anyone that has had to take a life, for what ever reason – you gain a better understanding and appreciation for that life. And also for life in general. That is no easy thing to come to grips with. I will not say my crime was noble, as I was protecting (thought so) my own – but it also was not for gain, or anger. Doesn’t matter to me. I did it and I’ll forever be humbled in the face of it. It’s been almost 30 years since it happened – and I still feel the guilt.

          Because of that I have a tendency to be somewhat harder on myself and my beliefs than the average person. My integrity is very important to me, and I’ve been known to shoot myself in the foot simply because of my need to be above board and completely honest. But that is my nature, and I refuse to compromise it.

          But on the flip side. I am a capable and competent man. I love to learn and enjoy a job where I am constantly striving. Networking has proven to be such a field. I love it. I want to succeed.

          Again, thank you for your post.
          I still can’t believe I’ve started such a debate here. Yowsa! 🙂

        • #2699168

          You’re welcome, sidvail

          by gaijinit ·

          In reply to Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

          Sidvail,
          Yeah, you really stirred up a ****-pot, didn’t you? It’s like when you turn on the kitchen light after coming home and seeing all the surprised roaches running for cover.
          It’s amazing how people react when their fur is rubbed the wrong way. You managed to uncover a cross-selection of the American psyche including unforgiving religious zealots, helpful Christians, mindless unforgiving knee jerk rectionaries, sensible and insensible businessmen with respectively helpful or condemning feedback, and just plain folks, good and bad with their inner thoughts (and prejudices).
          As for those condemning Bible-thumpers (not the honest supportive Christians), although I am not a particularly religious person, I would like to remind them (and they should realize it) is that God is always watching EVERYBODY and their day of accounting for what they have done and said will come around same as for everybody. What you do may be less important to Him than how you handle it. And you have no problems there. sidvail.
          One thing I picked up from a lot of the supportive replies and what I agree with completely, is that only The Man is allowed to pass final judgment on how people live their lives. Not everyone gets to dine at the same table and the choices you or anyone else have to make are always unique, so how can people make these ‘blanket statements’? How much is the situation affected by friends, family, urgency, danger, or ANYTHING offset the equation?
          Nobody can judge you until they become you and face everything you did at the time. Who knows how they will react to anything until they have to face it?
          Anyway, I’m glad if I helped in any way, and I think from what you have said so far you have a good heart and attitude – just don’t get too down on yourself, you paid your dues.
          Now go make somebody’s IT systems purr. Again, best of luck to you.

        • #2712947

          This issue is serious

          by joelthompson2001 ·

          In reply to Why not?

          I myself have had a brush with the law about 12 years ago. I moved to California and got hooked on drugs pretty bad (crack cocaine. That in itself was stupid. I was extremely out of my mind and I robbed a fastfood restaurant. I was caught and prosectued. I spent 3 years in a correctional facility and had my rights stripped of me I could not even vote. When I got off of parole, I still felt like everyone and I mean everyone would still always see me as a criminal. I have spent unfortunately I do not have the option for an expungement because I was of legal age at the time so you are actually lucky to have gotten that. I deal with the pain of having done something that may have permanently traumatized any of the people I hurt during my addiction and the crime I committed. I have nothing but remorse for those and sometimes I feel like I am scum. Over the past 4 years I have gone to college and recieved my A.A. in computer networking and am in the process of completeing my B.S. Information Systems Security and I am a Highest Honors student and have a good shot at Valedictorian of my class and I maintain a job at my school so pardon me if my spelling is off I am extremely tired. I often wonder if it will be possible for me due to my record to actually get a job that will meet my needs and help me to provide a better life for myself and help me to support a family and continue to be an asset to the community I live and the world. I know what you are going through I want my cert’s as well, and I know not a day goes by when you think of the steps that led up to your unfortunate incident. In truth we all have made our mistakes and to tell you the truth I believe you are very sorry and shouldn’t have to pay for it forever. I have one comment to make: “How can we break this chain for whatever reason crime exists, if I can do the same job as someone else, shouldn’t I get the chance to!” I don’t understand how America can sit by and see someone or a whole family suffer because a parent or an indvidual can not work becuase of a past criminal background. This in itself is a crime. I hope CEO’s will read this it is so important how can we deny someone based on their past? I really do feel that this is prejudice and I feel that applications themselves shouldn’t even have the question of past criminal history on them. That is what I would bet would get your application canned real fast. Ex-felons have a right to eat, sleep, work, love, raise a famliy, contribute to communities and to move on to a better life too. Let’s all think a little bit more about what we can do to make things better not worse, Please.

        • #2712793

          An age old problem, w/ some recent improvements

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to This issue is serious

          As I noted in another post, some states have addressed this issue by statutarily stipulating the circumstances under which information re. criminal history can be requested, the time period which may be reviewed, the scope of offenses which may be reviewed, etc..

          While this will of course in no way affect individual personal prejudices, it is a small step toward ensuring that such prejudices canot be excercised.

    • #2725246

      Seriously…

      by waidz176 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      To be honest with you as I read your letter -the word “homocide” was like a kick in my tummy.It’s easy to say oh yes we would all hire you, but for me personally I would have reservations. I believe that people can change and circumstances can drive any sane human to do despicable things – but if I had to choose the person to have around me 70% of my day then I would choose the person with no homocide criminal record.
      We have heard so many horror stories here in SA about employees that turn against their employers and go on murder rampages – I am chicken and would be terrified.
      On the other hand, if it was any other criminal record that is not in the top 5 crimes – then it would be a different matter…
      What happened anyway ?

    • #2700649

      Murder is not a fiduciary breach & does not affect bonding

      by wankelc ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Murder is from a career standpoint a less serious crime than shoplifting because it is not a fidiciary breach and therefore does not disqualify a person from being bonded (insured) which is a legal requirement in the financial services and some other industries. That is why in 1970s Chemical Bank in New York focused on murderers and people with drug violations in its ex-offender hiring program. (Urine was monitored to assure that no current drug users were included).

      • #2700618

        Career Change

        by stevej ·

        In reply to Murder is not a fiduciary breach & does not affect bonding

        Anytime a person changes thier career there are challenges and personnel frustrations involved. It is important to look at each opportunity as a change to build your career, not just an opportunity to work. This stated it is also important to create your own opportunities. Many times a person can leverage thier past to create a new opportunity. In your case doing volunteer work for orginizations helping other ex-cons or helping toubled kids could go a long way in giving you both credibility and experience, Good Luck

      • #2699881

        Rather him than Mitnick

        by sirlanse ·

        In reply to Murder is not a fiduciary breach & does not affect bonding

        A thief/embezzeler/hacker would be far worse
        in an IT adminstration position.
        IT guys frequently have anti socal leaning and
        are left alone by the rank and file employees.
        If you are honest and can point out your weakness
        and that weakness won’t effect your work,
        you may get hired.
        You have a better chance in IT, than in sales.
        Collections could be an natural fit,
        I have seen some HR departments where everyone
        seems to be a murderer.

    • #2700646

      I’ve hired Ex-cons

      by nick ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Sometimes it works out, somtimes it doesn’t; but never had to let thme go because of their past. As a general rule, I’d say IT people are more likely to care about your skills rather than past than most professions.

      But I would say that if you cam to me with NT 4.0 skills and a Windows 2003 MCSE with no experience to back it up – *that* I’d struggle with.

      • #2701698

        Good Man

        by business guy ·

        In reply to I’ve hired Ex-cons

        Nick,

        You are a good man. It is refreshing to hear now and then, speaking as one who knows.

        tommy

    • #2700645

      out of luck

      by rocknt ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      now days peaplo juged you by your past not what you can do sorry

      • #2699871

        Check Out Smaller Companies

        by info ·

        In reply to out of luck

        I applaud your desire to enhance yourself, especially in the difficult world of certs and IT in general.

        The IT field is very full, particularly in the sysadmin arena. The amount of people competing for the same job is tremendous. If you are one that likes a challenge then perhaps a sysadmin position would be good for you.

        I recently went through a job transistion where I found myself without a job after being the IT manager for 8 years. While I was looking for work, I found I was drawn towards smaller companies (vs. Exxon, BP, etc.) They don’t have a tendency to off-shore their work and they give you opportunities to do more than pure network admin. On the down side, smaller companies seem to evaluate backgrounds harder than larger companies who have more formal H/R policies that might work to your benefit.

        Good luck on all your endeavors,

        Steve

    • #2700644

      Give it a try

      by greenchief ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Sidvail,

      I would say give it a try. I participate in a prison ministry (Kairos) and have had the opportunity to talk with a number of prisoners who are in prison for various reasons. In talking with them, I have found that most prisoners are no different than those who are not, with the exception of making a mistake.

      Now that you have paid for your mistake, persue your dream. You won’t be able to do some of the work requiring a clearance, but there are many jobs that do not require clearances.

      Good luck.

      Jim

    • #2700643

      From a retired member.

      by dicklaw ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Before spending too much time and money, suggest you check on need for secutiry clearances – and can you qualify? My last positions required “Industrial security clearance” to protect inhouse products and/or proceedures. When I first started in Digital computers (1959) a govt top secret cearance was manditory (even for analog computers prior to that).

    • #2700642

      Criminal Background

      by vgaughan ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Hi Sid,
      You’re doing the right thing. Whatever you do your record will follow you. With some experience in the HR area, my advice is to not hide your conviction because you can be fired if you keep it off your application. On the other hand, don’t go out of your way to expose it, unless it is relevant it’s nobody’s business.

      There are two pieces of good news. The first is that your record is for homicide not fraud or stealing. Fraud or stealing would make it difficult to accept you in a position of trust.

      The second is Alaska. It’s a frontier mentaility where you will quickly find out whether you will be accepted. It is far more accepting of checked pasts that the lower 48. They are less prying about your past and more accepting of who you are today.

      Good luck with the right attitude you’ll get what you want.

      Victor

    • #2700639

      try volunteering and teleworking

      by robert ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      In your position I would try volunteering for an organisation that you enjoy. All the non profits are required to publish a form 990, and you can look up a lot of information on them on Guidestar.

      I would think that telework might raise as many issues at it answers, but it is still worth investigating.

    • #2700638

      You will get hired

      by robert@contractorschool- ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I keep a sign on my garbage can by my desk.
      It reads “REASONS I CANT”

      Good Luck

    • #2700635

      Speaking from experience

      by adc24 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      It depends on your location how you are living right now, but having been through this, if you are living for Jesus you have to have faith that if God brings you to it he’ll bring you through it. I say pray and follow your heart. It can be done, I have done it.

      • #2699861

        Not again

        by alvarocervantes ·

        In reply to Speaking from experience

        I personally think that this man needs professional help, and you are not helping at all but just taking advantage of his situation. First of all, nothing works by feith in nature and neither in the corporate world. So inteligent managers won’t base their hiring decission in religion, but in things being done; social skills, how to handle hard situations, etc. Second, praying does not help, and again do things, participate with people to prove that you can handle people. Third, I don’t think it is possible to follow your heart, since it follows your body wherever your body goes (our heart is a pump and nothing else, and it does not have legs to move). I will sugest rather than following fieth, do as much as you can to prove that you have control over your body and surrounding (social and technical). And, for the religious people in this forum, I will suggest try a different social environment to promote your magical world, this is reallity.

        • #2699857

          Perfect

          by bboswick ·

          In reply to Not again

          That was well said. I couldn’t have said it better myself

        • #2699784

          Not again

          by money ·

          In reply to Not again

          I am not saying that it won’t be hard for him to get the type of job he is going for, you also have the misconception of faith,which is best defined as “the hope for things not seen.” Every religion including those who say that they do not believe or they have tried religion and it did not work, “hope for things not seen.” The reality is that when taken on the whole I would rather believe that faith thru Jesus Christ sustains me in my time of despair and thru my times of Joy.

      • #2699862

        Not again

        by alvarocervantes ·

        In reply to Speaking from experience

        I personally think that this man needs professional help, and you are not helping at all but just taking advantage of his situation. First of all, nothing works by feith in nature and neither in the corporate world. So inteligent managers won’t base their hiring decission in religion, but in things being done; social skills, how to handle hard situations, etc. Second, praying does not help, and again do things, participate with people to prove that you can handle people. Third, I don’t think it is possible to follow your heart, since it follows your body wherever your body goes (our heart is a pump and nothing else, and it does not have legs to move). I will sugest rather than following fieth, do as much as you can to prove that you have control over your body and surrounding (social and technical). And, for the religious people in this forum, I will suggest try a different social environment to promote your magical world, this is reallity.

    • #2700634

      We wouldn’t have a problem

      by lesmond ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I can’t see me or my organisation having a problem employing you. Provided an applicant meets the correct level of qualification and experience for a given job, background (unless a serial fraudster or someone with dishonesty convictions) doesn’t really come into our equation. Go for it – but be prepared for knock backs more as a result of the state of the industry rather than anything in your past!

    • #2700625

      Depends on reasons for homicide

      by it andy ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      With my tech admin hat on, I would say that you have more chance than someone convicted of theft. It sounds daft since this is a “lesser” crime, but stealing information is the biggest no-no in I.T. If your crime can be shown to have been a one off and there is no chance of repertition then toy stand a reasonable chance if
      a) you are good enough at your job.
      b) prepared to work, and
      c) have good references (everyone needs them!)

    • #2700621

      Keep at it

      by hblanthorn9 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I would encourage you to keep on working, obtain as many certs as possible, because they will demonstrate your committment to your goals! Yes.. you’ll have to accept the fact that a criminal record will be viewed by some as an issue. Then again, in today’s cut-throat world of business, a homicide conviction might be viewed as an asset! But to be serious.. it has been my experience that continued professional developement along a given path is the best demonstration of intent. Keep plugging away. It may seem like a long time, but 4 years isn’t much, but certainly a very good solid base. By the way, most jobs/careers depend just as much on “people and business skills” as they do on technology skills. One of my main concerns in interviewing prospects is their ability to “work and play well with others”. Will they fit into the teams they will work with? And even more important than past certs, do they appear to be able to absorb new skills quickly? As you have already seen, this business changes so rapidly that yesterdays’ certs are often useless in 2-3 years, so the ability to assimilate new technologies, and apply them well is the most critical trait I’d look for.

      Good luck, and dont let little discouragements affect your overall goals.

      • #2699658

        Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

        by sidvail ·

        In reply to Keep at it

        Well said.

    • #2700620

      From a manager – Go for it!

      by schrödinger’s cat ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Your efforts to become a productive member of society again (including posting this question)say a lot about you. Go for it! Go for it hard, with all your might!
      Of course, you will fight the same kind of prejudice, suspicion, and wariness that you would face in any other job and in the community as well–until you prove yourself. You have to be a little more patient, a little more tolerant than the next guy. And above all be careful not to frighten people–if you have a tendancy to fly off the handle or get angry easily…take great pains to control that or see a counsellor to help control it.

      So…as a manager–Yes, I would hire you. …and like any other new hire I would keep my eye on you … I would help you to adjust and help others to adjust to you. It will be your coworkers who you have to make a good impression with…

      Go get those cerifications. Work a little harder than the next guy. Study a little harder. Get good at it…and you will do well.

      Good luck!

    • #2700619

      It’s all about the new you and not your past…

      by network_analyst ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      If you’re really good at what you do…I mean really, really good…and you pursue higher education and continued improvement, your past won’t mean much to your employer. My friend is an ex-con also. He did 5 years hard time in a Federal Prison for a bank robbery and 5 more years parole before they cut him loose. My boss hired him when he was still on parole. He turned out to be one of the best engineers we ever had and everyone considered him their friend at the company. Today, he’s remarried with a nice house and kids and he owns his own technology company and he’s doing fine.

      Keep studying. Get educated. Never look back. Things will work out for you. Good luck with your new career.

    • #2700617

      Jesus said it best

      by massiej ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Jesus said it best: “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”.

      Go for it. You might want to consider applying to universities (I work at one). They pride themselves on open minds.

    • #2700614

      Faith

      by richard.gaskins ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      As far as you getting ahead and taking “Certs” go for it. You will probably not be ale to get a security clearence having a felony record, but “FAITH” as you alreday know, will get you over any hurdles.
      It kept you alive while you were in…
      Stay foucused my friend, it will all work out….

    • #2700612

      Why the hell not!

      by cjenning ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I recently got turned down for a contract because I was white, anglo, and doing alright. Client wanted someone of color and more “down and out.”
      You only need one job. The jobs are out there – you just have to find them.
      Suggest that when you’re ready you let people know that you have a criminal background, you’ve paid your debt to society, and you’re ready to get to work for them.
      Regarding certs – NT4.0 is a building block, and there may be some 4.0 environments for which you’d be a good fit. But I’d advise you to get into job search mode and go full-speed ahead on the current certifications. I have a buddy who’s doing his certs now, and I’d be happy to refer you to him for the particulars.
      Good luck,

    • #2700611

      Re; Criminal Record

      by epreport ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Why should you not get on as you have donme the time.
      here in the UK we have a famous TV actor in Soaps who committed a particular vicious crime of blowing the back of a taxi drivers head for his fare money, He was given life inprisonment but allowed out on licence afer nine years, And now earns a fortune on TV.
      If he can do it why not you?
      The best of Luck!

      EPB

    • #2700610

      It only stopped me when I let it

      by prohta ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I was convicted with 2 theft II felony counts and when I went to work the first two employers I saw said “no way.” So, I went back to school, got two computer science AA degrees and a BS in Applied Technology & Multimedia Design.

      When I was through I got my dream job, only because my new employer saw that I was not the person I used to be, but a person who wanted to improve myself.

      I am now a Marketing Manager and webmaster for a small company that brings in lots of money, which I handle. Not only does my employer trust me, I trust myself. That is an awesome feeling to know that I can actually be a productive member of society again.

      I hope you pursue all your dreams. Getting certs is never a bad thing, it just shows that you really have a desire to be the best you can be!

      I say “go for it!”

      Good luck

    • #2700609

      murder vs. IT Admin

      by darrahg ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Obtaining certs outside of the penal system will help you gain credibility. Murder does not come into play when working as an IT Admin.
      Whether it is legal or not, I would want to know the circumstances surrounding your crime to determine whether my employees would be/feel safe around you. I think most employers, whether intentional or not, would use that act as negative criteria when screening for a perspective employee because they do not want to take on any more responsibility (liability) than they have to. Murder is a hard act to swallow and knowing the circumstances surrounding the event would make it easier to understand the individual and just might put the employer at ease enough to hire you. Best of Luck!

    • #2700608

      Hire or not to Hire

      by warrior ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Sidvail,

      Sorry as an owner of an ISP I would be afraid to hire someone with such a volatile disposition.

      Taking one’s live is the ultimate sin, and is not forgivable in your life time. Off course I am prejudging you without knowing the exact circumstances.

      Murdering one in self defense is justifiable, death due to a vehicular accident or what ever accident justifiable, death due to fighting justifiable. Any of the above mentioned I would consider you for employment.

      We are all humans with the ability to rationalize, and that differentiates us from animals. The person you murdered will never see the light of day again, but you have the privilege to do so.

      • #2699878

        WOW!! You’ve Got to Read This!

        by christian it guy ·

        In reply to Hire or not to Hire

        Warrior,

        I just wanted to let you know how strongly I disagree with you when you say,” Taking one’s live is the ultimate sin, and is not forgivable in your life time.” You mention sin, which I will take as you knowing something about it. The “ultimate sin”, is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which means that the ultimate sin is rejection of God’s gift of forgivness that He freely offers through faith in His son Jesus Christ. See, Jesus died on the cross for your sins, my sins, Sidvails sins, all of our sins. This does not have to be murder, all of us have sinned, if you have ever cheated, lied, done something in anger, or even thought of it you have sinned. I am a Christian, and so I believe in the Bible, as God’s word. The Bible says that,”We are all infected and impure with sin. When we proudly display our righteous deeds, we find they are but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall. And our sins, like the wind, sweep us away.” Isaiah 64:6, and ,”For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard.” Romans 3:23. This tells us that all of us (me, you, and everyone) have sinned, and in this state we are unable to get into heaven, but my friend, there is good news. The good news I speak of is the free gift I mentioned earlier, the one from God. See the Bible also says,”We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done
        For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins.” Romans 3:22-24. So we see that all of us can be forgiven of our sins and made right in God’s eyes, only through our personal trust in Jesus Christ to take our sins. He has already paid for you, you just have to accept His sacrafice. I would also like to remind you, incase you have heard this before, that there is a difference between knowing this is true and have a personal trust, and relationship, whith Jesus Christ. Knowing will not get you into heaven, only having a personal relationship with Jesus can do that. It is a free gift, and God wants all of us to be saved from our sins. The bible says,”For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16. If you are reading this, it is not by coincidence, but by an appointment that God has given you, so that you could hear and be saved. If you would like to know more, or talk to someone, you can call 1-888-NEEDHIM (888-633-3446) or visit http://www.needhim.org, there will be people who care for you there, and they are waiting to speak with you. If you don’t want to contact them, then you can do this all by yourself, you just have to pray and ask for it. Here is an example of what you can pray,” Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I was made for You, but I’ve been living for me. I want to begin a relationship with You now. I believe that You died in my place, to pay the penalty for my sin, and rose again for my salvation. I want to turn from my sins. I now invite You to come into my heart and life as my Lord and Savior. In Jesus’ name, Amen.” If you have prayed this, the Bible says that you are now forgiven, and that Jesus is now living within you, from here you should contact a Bible based church so that you can get some answers and some help in living your new life as a Christian. If you think that I, and the nearly 100 million, are wrong please think of this. If what I say is wrong, and if you don’t believe in God, and are right, then when I die I will go to the same place you do. But if I am right, and you are wrong, you will go to h***(we all know what I mean). Another fact to hear,is that the Bible is a book containing hundreds of detailed prophecies. There are, for example, well over 60 distinct predictions in regard to our Saviour Jesus Christ. Here is a sample of just 10 prophecies that foretold the crucifixion of Christ. Not only were the predictions made 1000 years BEFORE Christ came from heaven to earth, but they were made over 500 years BEFORE crucifixion was first used anywhere in the world as a form of capital punishment! Crucifixion didn’t exist when the prophecies were made. A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000) Yet, Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies! So I will leave you with this information, if you still disagree you should probably research what I am saying, from all points of view, and make an informed decision. As for Sidvail, I am a regional IS admin and I would not strike you out for your crime. I do think that it will make it harder for you, especially as it is harder for everyone right now, but with God’s favor anything is possible. Thank you for your time,and God Bless.

        • #2699818

          Are you for real?

          by warrior ·

          In reply to WOW!! You’ve Got to Read This!

          Wake up to reality, (Jacob Hicks)

          Please let me know which planet you are living in. Sorry to say that we live in a world that has a lot of horrible crimes. You talk of murder like it was just like going out stealing a bike, robbing houses, or stealing from your neighbors. We are talking about turning off your lights fool.

          This guy has the privilege like you or me to see the light of day. Like I said before I don’t know the nature of his homicide. Obviously it must be of the most horrid because he does not elaborate.

          I am sick of religious freaks like you that preach the gospel but hide behind the forgiveness of the lord when you do wrong. Wake up and live in the real world.

          If he accidentally killed someone or was involved in a situation where he had no control of his doings I would hire him first before a goof ball like you.

          Luckily for you, you are not working for me; your ass would be polishing the pavement. What institution did you escaped from? You are considered dangerous but forgivable. Chill out old man.

          Have you ever heard of the Ten Commandments? If not I would advise you to verse up on it. One of them is to do on to others as you want others to do on to you. I guess if you kill others then it is alright for others to kill you. So please don’t give me your crap.

        • #2699732

          Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

          by boyd ·

          In reply to Are you for real?

          Obviously, you have never read the 10 commandments, my guess is you could not even find them in the Bible.

        • #2701884

          Whose Ten Commandments?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

          I’m willing to bet that your interpretation of such bears little resemblance to their meaning when placed in the then contemporary context.

          For example, “Thou shalt not commit adultry” is today taken to mean something quite different than it did then. Said commandment was simply a social proscription forbiding a married woman from having sexual intercourse with any man other than her husband, thus giving the husband full legal claim to any and all children borne by her.

        • #2699469

          Ummm…sorry NO..you are W-R-O-N-G.

          by tomsal ·

          In reply to Whose Ten Commandments?

          Lets start a debate on the 10 commandments now, yes then it’ll degrade into a holy war…we all know how fun those are (tongue in cheek). 😉

          But no “Thou shalt not commit adultry” means don’t sleep around with other folks when you are married. That’s it. period. done.

          Next issue?

        • #2699176

          Before you speak, get the facts.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Ummm…sorry NO..you are W-R-O-N-G.

          Like most, your definition is based on contemporary ethics, as defined by, for example, law and/or modern translations of the Bible.

          If you want to know what the Ten Commandments REALLY state, you must:

          1) Go to the oldest known written recordings of such;
          2) Read such in the original language and/or translate using the then current meanings & idioms of said language as it was then used; and,
          3) Interpret them in the then current sociological context.

          You cannot simply start and end with current translations.

          When in doubt, consult the experts; in this case, Biblical & Historical scholars.

          I stand by my prior post; it is historically accurate.

        • #2699637

          are you real respondent

          by taxman1 ·

          In reply to Are you for real?

          I agree that the person may have gone overboard giving testomony on a forum but there was no need for an attack. I can see from your message that you do now the 10 commandments at all. I think your hostility comes from a deeper feeling than your response to the writer’s terstimony. Keep peace.

        • #2699456

          Re: Warrior

          by christian it guy ·

          In reply to Are you for real?

          Warrior,

          I can tell that you are a very angry person. That’s too bad. I do live in the real world buddy, and I know what murder is. I grew up in a very bad neighboorhood, and saw bad things happen. You seem so irrational, probably from your rage, I hope you can control yourself in the workplace, because for that I am sure you would get fired. Do you hate me? You don’t even know me. Or do you just hate the truth that I posted. If you are too closed minded to ever look into what I have said, I feel very bad for you, because one day you will know the truth, but it will be too late. I can see from your response that you are not a Christian, I am, and I can testify to the change God can make in your life. I will attempt to address your response, as angry and irrational as it is.

          1. “Please let me know which planet you are living in. Sorry to say that we live in a world that has a lot of horrible crimes. You talk of murder like it was just like going out stealing a bike, robbing houses, or stealing from your neighbors. We are talking about turning off your lights fool.” I will clarify myself here. Murder is terrible, I would consider it much worse than stealing a bike or such. My last post refers to the way it relates to God. Murder is a sin, and so is stealing. To God, sin is sin, none is worse than any other, except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (which is rejecting Christ’s sacrafice). To the whole “turning off your lights fool” I didn’t realize we were talking about killing me, or if I am a fool or not. Obviously you say I am, I would say your speech doesn’t seem very professional, and that you are to angry to be rational.

          2. “This guy has the privilege like you or me to see the light of day. Like I said before I don’t know the nature of his homicide. Obviously it must be of the most horrid because he does not elaborate.” Yes he does, and the person that he killed does not. That is typical with murder and probably all of us know that, but thank you for pointing it out. You also just assume it was bad, have you looked it up, I doubt it. You are too irrational for that. The fact is, you don’t know.

          3. “I am sick of religious freaks like you that preach the gospel but hide behind the forgiveness of the lord when you do wrong. Wake up and live in the real world.” Wow. You are so angry, I’m sorry that you misunderstand so much. Maybe if you let go of your rage and opened your eyes you could understand what the truth really is. I would like to clarify that I am not a religious freak, just a Christian. I do preach the Gospel, because if it reaches one person it is worth dealing with people like you. God has forgiven me of my sins, but they hold consequences. I do not hide behind forgiveness, though I am forgiven. If I commit a crime, I will be punished, and I will suffer consequence. Where is there any hiding? Please tell me where you see it, and I will explain it so that you can understand.

          4. “If he accidentally killed someone or was involved in a situation where he had no control of his doings I would hire him first before a goof ball like you.” Wow, again such anger directed at me. Well, just to let you know, you will never have the power to hire or not hire me. I am very good at what I do, and sought after in my area. You would also not know what my religious beliefs were before you hired me, because that is an illegal question. If you fired me for it, I would sue you as it is my right to be a Christian, and even to show it at the workplace. I would also like to state that sometimes I may be a ‘goofball’ but I am very professional when I need to be, even here, where you seem out of control.

          5. “Luckily for you, you are not working for me; your ass would be polishing the pavement. What institution did you escaped from? You are considered dangerous but forgivable. Chill out old man.” I am not ‘lucky’ friend, I am blessed, but thank you for seeing that. I will never be working for you, I am already in an upper level position, and will not be needing you. I also do not ‘polish pavement’ I am a Regional IS Admininstator for a Fortune 250 company. I manage their IS dept in 5 states. I have never been instituitionalized, though I did serve in the US Army and have a security clearance. I would also not consider myself dangerous in most circumstances, and yes I am forgiven (but we can all be forgiven). To the ‘chill out old man’ part, I must say I am a pretty laid-back person, but am certainly not and old man. Truth be told I am still in my early twenties, and am blessed with success.

          6. “Have you ever heard of the Ten Commandments? If not I would advise you to verse up on it. One of them is to do on to others as you want others to do on to you. I guess if you kill others then it is alright for others to kill you. So please don’t give me your crap.” Yes I have heard of the Ten Commandments, I actually know them all, and in order,(do you?)I have them hanging in my office at home (I got them from the 700 club, it’s very nice looking). You should also know that ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’ is not one of the Ten Commandments. I will tell you what they are and where you can find them so that you can educate yourself:
          The TEN COMMANDMENTS
          ————-Exodus 20:1-17————-
          Then God spoke all these words, saying,
          2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
          3″You shall have no other gods besides Me.
          4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any like-ness of what is in heaven above or on earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
          5 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the four fourth generations of those who hate Me,
          6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
          7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
          8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
          9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
          10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male servant or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
          11 “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
          12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.
          13 “You shall not murder.
          14 “You shall not commit adultery.
          15 “You shall not steal.
          16 “You shall not bear false witness against your
          neighbor.
          7 “You shall not covet you neighbor’s house; you
          shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male
          servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that
          belongs to your neighbor.”

          So as you can see, here they are, and that is not one of them. Now Jesus said this, ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Matthew 22:37-39. So this is where you get that, but it is not a part of the Ten Commandments. Now you know. Now the whole “I guess if you kill others then it is alright for others to kill you.” is pretty dumb, of course murder is always wrong, and we all know that two wrongs do not make a right, just the same as two lefts do not make a right. I give you no crap, only truth, how you choose to use it is up to you. Maybe your next reply can be a little more prepared, intelligent, professional, and I hope you will be able to overcome your anger problem, I did, through Jesus. Thank you and God Bless.

        • #2699147

          North is up

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Re: Warrior

          I don’t know where you came from, response was not directed to you, but if the shoe fits what can I say.

          What you said about the Ten Commandments is definitely correct but accusations about me are unacceptable, intolerable, asinine, and totally bovine manure.

          I just wanted to point out to “deep head in the sand” all Sid wanted was a simple yes or no answer, then came all the Jesus freaks etc. etc. with their worthless rhetorical responses.

          If you read my very first response ?Hire or not to Hire?, because I was one of the responders that opted for the no answer, I got bashed. I don’t have any feelings for Sid what so ever in any way shape or form. I just stated that I would not hire him. I think the angry people are contortionists like you that get bent out of shape because nothing goes their way, or no one agrees with them.

          I think you do need to educate your self more about our industry because reading your bovine manure you seem very unprofessional and needs to get your feet wet…still wet behind the ears….Wonder why companies like mine are out-sourcing work? I will let you answer that question yourself.

          Why does Sid evade the question when people ask for details about what made him commit murder? I am like many of the others out there, I see him murdering someone?s mother brutally bashing her head in with a small ball peen hammer to prolong death very appalling, gruesome, nauseating, and something he has to deal with later at judgment day, not at this forum. So until I get details I will assume the worst.

          Why do you think that when there is a murder trial and it’s time to select jurors hundreds are interviewed but only 12 get selected? Just look at the forum here there over 200 sidewalk jurist and only a few makes any sense. I guess you got the point. Can you see the ratio here? Facts are amazing.

          I think this is just a hoax anyway because of the lack of details about the homicide coming from Sid.

          Keep on trucking……

        • #2699017

          You Sound So Different

          by christian it guy ·

          In reply to North is up

          Warrior,

          I would like you to understand that I did not say anything about your opinion of not hiring Sid. I couldn’t say that I would either, it would depend on the situation and it’s circumstances. What I was disagreeing with was your statement that murder was the ‘ultimate sin’ and unforgivable, that’s all. Your response to my post was very anger filled. It really appeared to be pointed to me, you called me a fool, freak, goofball, insinuated that I had been institutionalized, talked about not hiring me (which is certainly not relevant), but if you did hire me you said,? your ass would be polishing the pavement”. You also called me an ‘old man’ and told me to ‘chill out’. I did not accuse you of anything, I simply read your response to me and pointed out the way you represented yourself in it. So it seems that your comments to me in your first response were, “unacceptable, intolerable, asinine, and totally bovine manure”, as you have said. You seem to be a very intolerant person; you call me a religious freak, Jesus freak, and intolerant; when all I did was to disagree with you, so who?s intolerant. I don’t care, call me what you will, I am a Christian, it is a part of everything I am. I only shared the truth, and you became enraged (or at least it seemed that way), if that is true maybe you should search yourself, because that seems intolerant. In response to your statement,? I think the angry people are contortionists like you that get bent out of shape because nothing goes their way, or no one agrees with them.” I have not ‘contorted’ anything, or gotten ‘bent out of shape’. I enjoy debating, and listening to others views. I am not angry, things always go my way, I am very blessed, and as I said before, there are nearly 100 million people who agree with me. We live in a free country so that we can have different opinions, I served in the military to honor and protect my nation, and those rights. I was more decorated than anyone on my team. I am, and will be, constantly educating myself. I have studied much in our industry, and in other areas. It appears that I know more than you did, but I will still study, I just hope you will too. I would also like to point out your ‘wet behind the ears’ insult (before I was an old man, and now that I tell you I am young you shoot another insult) I have been in the industry for some time, and do very well for myself. I have a great position, but there?s no need to continue with that. The whole ‘ball peen hammer’ story you picture, I will only say that it sounds like you to say that, I will not speculate on something I have no knowledge of, instead I choose to educate myself with all the facts and make an informed decision. God Bless.

        • #2703511

          Re: Are you for real?

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Are you for real?

          When one has to resort to personal attacks and name calling to make their point, it’s usually because they don’t can’t support their position with facts, strong opinion, or intellect.

        • #2699799

          Off topic

          by mosez ·

          In reply to WOW!! You’ve Got to Read This!

          Would you mind taking your semi-scientific jesus-freak chit-chat elsewhere, please? This is *TECH*Republic. Thank you.

        • #2699656

          I agreee, this is not a religious discussion

          by joseph52 ·

          In reply to Off topic

          To all the jesus lovers:

          PLEASE take it elsewhere. This discussion is to help this gentleman with his IT CARREER not his faith in jesus. It’s OK to believe whatever you want but please stop boring me with you silly religious convictions!

        • #2699636

          no relegion

          by katn ·

          In reply to I agreee, this is not a religious discussion

          Right on. Take it elsewhere.

        • #2699630

          must read this responder

          by taxman1 ·

          In reply to WOW!! You’ve Got to Read This!

          Jacob, you may be right to make sure that he knows he has support from God and to know that forgivness is available. You may have gone overboard for most “unchurched” though. I noticed some attacks on your beliefs. Remember they even crucified Jesus.

      • #2701885

        Company CEO, no way

        by warrior ·

        In reply to Hire or not to Hire

        To all responders,

        Yes, you can yank all you want but you are not owners of a company. I am the only responder here that is an owner so I think my reply has credence.

        What’s the old saying? “It is sure easy to spend someone else?s money but your own”. Wear the shoes then tell me about it.

        I don’t see any responder offering Sid a job, how come?

        • #2701881

          Are you sure?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Company CEO, no way

          I must have missed something, namely the indicator that marks which respondents are ‘owners,’ along that the disclaimer that ‘non-owners’ should be considered not credible.

          Sure am glad that I don’t work for you.

          The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

    • #2699925

      Best of luck, but…

      by tonyj_stirling ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I wish you the best of luck, and I hate to suggest more obstacles, but I think it might be best to mention a couple of things.
      1. You spent 19 years – I’m guessing you’re probably at least 35, then, probably older? I’ve been reading similar posts to yours where people in their 40’s are having problems because of their age – if you’re approaching that kind of range, then that might be an obstacle to you.
      2. I don’t think the people hiring you will be a major problem, but your to-be-coworkers might not be happy if they know your past. Although I must say, I think I would be happier with an ex-con with homicide than with theft/armed robbery or some other violent PLANNED crime. Obviously, I don’t know if your act was spontaneous or not, (and it’s none of my business), but homicide would make me think more of a spur of the moment crime than planned. Honestly, though, I’m not aware of having worked with any cons, so I don’t know how I would ACTUALLY feel – I can only guess.
      3. As mentioned before, lack of experience might be a problem, especially since you’re using old server software and you’re not doing it full-time. Can you persuade your work to upgrade to server 2000 or 2003? That way, you can get a good few years experience with up to date systems, and you’ve got the groundwork there since you’re using NT4.

      Best of luck, and I hope the things I’ve mentioned above don’t prove a problem at all.

      • #2699645

        Excellent

        by sidvail ·

        In reply to Best of luck, but…

        Great post.

        Yes, the age factor is there also. I’m actually 48 now – not the optimum age to begin a new career. 🙂

        In the (almost) 5 years I’ve been here, my fellow employees are the best source of growth I’ve had. Everyone knows my past but I guess it’s okay – as I’m the one they come to when things go wrong, as opposed to the (several) managers that have held that position. I was offered the managers position 2 years ago, but declined because of some very valuable training I had just undergone would have gone to waste. And besides – I love my job. 🙂

        The lack of experience in new technologies is a major problem for me – but cannot convince the boss to upgrade to 2000 or 2003. Hence my original question about getting some new certs and training. I was fortunate to attend a MS seminar where I was given a free copy of Server 2003 SBS, and have built a small network at home to study on. Of course that still limits my experience to a small environment – but it does help. 🙂

        • #2701235

          I have worked with felons

          by nyabdns ·

          In reply to Excellent

          At the last place I worked I worked with 4 guys that had killed people for various reasons and one that killed a fellow employee while I worked there. Of these 5, 4 were exemplary employees, the other one needed to be put away for life. The truth is that you can have a productive life if you first forgive yourself and don’t let anyone put guilt back on you. It’s not a matter of degree of sin, everybody is guilty in that category and sin is really only putting aside the purpose that God has for your life. Get on with it.

    • #2699923

      You are on the right path, but…

      by jritchie777 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I admire your persistence in moving forward with your life and not to discourage you, but in todays “modern business”, you cannot lie on an application for employment and even though the disclaimer states “will not automatically disqualify you” any type of conviction will more than likely not get you past the HR department. Your best bet is to try and find a smaller company that will see you as a person, not a statistic. I’m not saying that you can’t get a job with a big company, just I think from over 17 years in the industry that your best bet would be a smaller company, one that will give you a chance to explain and prove to them that you are on the right track. Good Luck!!!!!
      J. Ritchie
      Software Engineer / Network Admin

    • #2699922

      Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

      by the admiral ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Short answer in a corporate world No. Short answer in a SMB area Maybe. This is only if you come out and explain why you thought it was necessary to commit the crime in the first place.

      Certifications do not make you someone that is hirable by any measure. We have a person who has gotten nearly every certification that there is possible and still to this day can not program a java scriptlet correctly. The certifications only say to a potential employer that you can read and spit back what you have read.

      IBM would not hire you because of the criminal background check. IBM is known for firing people because their license tags expired and they got a ticket. You are working a huge uphill battle where you have to prove to the community that you are not a psycho. The problem is that with the criminal record, you have to prove it over and over and over again.

      Let’s face it everyone, if you have a bad credit file or a criminal history, you are placed in the part of society where the politicians only fear to go when you have the right to vote. Now if you have a credit card balance that is late, they refuse to hire you. Too bad that this is how it is, and I am afraid that it will take alot of money to ensure that this gets changed, but unfortunately, I don’t have it or I would be at the courts arguing it myself.

      But large corporations has policies in place where they will not hire felons or people who are bankrupt.

    • #2699916

      always be truthful

      by a1deydreams ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Whatever you do.. don’t try to hide your past.. be truthful and up front with employers… don’t volunteer to much information.. but if the application asks answer it truthfully.. you may be able to add a comment….”will discuss at interview”.. this lets them know you are open about it and it also keeps the particulars from others eyes… (ie office gossip). also follow up with a letter of thanks and recent goals and current certs..

    • #2699914

      Reality Check

      by tampa hillbilly ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      The answers you read here are from peers, not CEOs or HR Managers. Real life is that you will continue to be chastized for your past transgression. Even though you are on The Right Track, the train stations will be scarce. My suggestion is either keep the current job, and/or consider independent consulting and getting bonded. No job application to fill out there, and you are judged entirely on performance. If you are a good Network Admin, you will succeed. It is that simple.

    • #2699909

      GO FOR IT !!!!!

      by fdohle ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I once spoke to an executive who would teach
      computer concepts to convicts – as a service
      to the community.

      I couldn’t believe it – so I asked him – would he hire a convict for an IT Job ????

      He Said abolutely – and he said he would certainly hire someone who did time for homicide.

      Fraud – he said was another issue.

      Good Luck

    • #2699908

      You can be lucky..

      by itmail ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I have a long criminal background my self, and I’m now the administrator for a goverment buissinies i Denmark, I havn’t killed any one but done a lot of other things like dealing with drugs, wepaons and other things so I can’t see that you wont be as lucky as I.

      I have been convicted 4 times for everythig from GrandTheftAuto to dealing with Coke and Estacy and is registred in in Interpool for smuglig drugs over the border to denmark and so on so ANY ONE can get an administrator job so go for IT.

      BB

    • #2699907

      Yes, I would give you an interview

      by whaling ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I would give an interview to you to see if you have what it takes. Doing time would not be a big thing. It is hard to find good help.

      I have a record and I made it to a Senior position. I didn’t kill anyone or rape anyone but I did other crimes that were not minor. I have had to work really hard and do what no one else does. I do security work and streaming video.

      You do have a good change if you really want it bad enough.

      • #2699644

        Something to think about.

        by sidvail ·

        In reply to Yes, I would give you an interview

        This makes sense. From a capitalistic standpoint – if there is demand, there is opportunity.

        Right now there is demand for security, streaming video, VoIP, etc. So if I become knowledgable in those fields, I stand a better chance.

        Thank you. This has given me something to think about. 🙂

    • #2699906

      My Thoughts…

      by gboice ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Here are my thoughts… Since you have been working for 4 years and you have been out of trouble since then, that helps. My advice is to stay with your present job for now and pursue the certifications. Also, keep on learning!

      At a job interview, this could be a problem. But I think I would approach it this way. Just tell them that you know what you did in the past was wrong and that you were young and stupid. But also stress that you have been striving to be a good citizen and hopefully a role model.

      As some of the thread that I have read, volunteering is a good way to show potential employers that you are committed in stay out of trouble. Try volunteer at places that deal with trouble youths and share your experiences with them. I’m sure a potential employer will look upon this favoritably.

      So, basically, stay out of trouble, work hard and most important, keep the faith!!!!

      Good Luck!!!!

    • #2699903

      admin with criminal background

      by james81052 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      well let me start by saying i was convicted of a crime and did time when i got out i went to sanjose cali i had certs and experience in my feild i applied for a job at a major computer co we won.t say names ok and made it all the way through and was hired then security came up i had already had a top secret clearance before this will i was then fired or let go to be nice about it because of my back ground i believe that people do make mistakes and people learn by them this job that i had applied for was 130,000.00 a year but in the end now i have my own small co and doing just great but the answer to your ? ???????? some places yes you have to be careful and others you don’t but i feel and it is only me you deserves a chance good luck

    • #2699902

      The (somewhat) hard truth…

      by cowp0ke ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Hi Sidvail,

      It is good that you are trying to mend your ways. I truly hope you will succeed.

      An unfortunate prejudice about former convicts is that many employers don’t like them. The tendency is to be abruptly dismissed. The key, however, is not to let that discourage you! You have to bounce back!

      I highly recommend you start your own computer consulting business; get all the various certifications and qualifications you can, and hang that on your shingle (company sign)! As a third party computer consultant, employers are more interested in what you accomplish for them than past history.

      You will also show a lot of gumption and ambition!

      I hope that you succeed!

    • #2699896

      What’s done is the past..

      by kirtor ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      In my country I think that we have a mostly common wiew: When a person has served his/her time the person is free to restart the life from scratch. I would not judge you from what you have done, but from what you are today and what you know today.

      I cannot tell you what will happen when you apply for work, humans are subjective creatures. But a decent man should get a decent treatment!

      Good luck!

    • #2699893

      I wouldn’t

      by angelgrl ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I’m sorry. I wouldn’t hire you. The reason why is that in a Network Admin position you will be handling a lot of security issues, you will have access to everything. As a Manager/director I would never take the chance.
      Good luck.

      • #2701899

        Mischosen alias

        by deepsand ·

        In reply to I wouldn’t

        Obviously your alias is a lie.

        And, what does security have to do with the issue at hand? Nothing!

    • #2699886

      In the real world

      by don fachabella ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I am glad you are rehabilitated, But in the real world if you are over 40 with no experience the best you can hope for is to work as a service tech some where that they don’t do back round checks.
      I give you credit for your accomplishments. But there are a lot of out of work (laid off) IT’ers out there and to think that you are just going to stroll into the market place and get a job, I don’t think so.
      Any one who tells you different is lying.
      Personnally we have WORKED all our lives and for you to come along and think that you deserve a break is bullsh*t.
      People are working 2 and 3 jobs because of downsizing and these jobs are in dept. stores , gas stations and their wives are working as waitreses just to make ends meet.

      Any no legit company is going to hire a felon.
      Let alone a sys admin from no where.
      What are you going to uses as a resume?
      become a mechanic or carpenter more chances for you.
      This is the truth, as cold as it is.
      Sorry if I burst your bubble but better to hear it now than find out later,
      If IT people are having to change carrers mid-live do you think you have a chance.
      look at the job market or job posting boards.
      One job/many applicants.
      GOOD LUCK!

      • #2699876

        Be real ….

        by sw2138 ·

        In reply to In the real world

        Your best bet is with a small company that is looking to save a few bucks. Any gov jobs, big companies, etc. will not give you a chance.
        Forget all the jesus stuff everyone is telling you, he is not going to pay your bills and rent. After you get some experience under your belt, consider doing some indenpendent contracting work – they usually don’t check backgrounds and you could use your current employer as a ref. Also check your local area for any job programs that give companies tax breaks for hiring x-cons; if a company can save money by hiring you, they will look past the jail thing – saving money is much more important to them.

      • #2699822

        Too bad you think that way

        by rgriego2 ·

        In reply to In the real world

        You have a very dim view of people. I think you need to seek Higher Enlightenment. Maybe then you would at least act like a real human being an not be so crasp. There is never any need to put people down, unless you need it to feel better about yourself. The type of person you are is the reason there is sooooo much trouble in the world.
        It is your opinion that no one deserves a break, I wonder how many mistakes you have made in your perfect life that didn’t get a second chance to make it right?
        I thought so. So much for Mr. Perfect.
        Learn to forgive, you will be the better for it.

      • #2699633

        Sure..

        by sidvail ·

        In reply to In the real world

        Thanks Don for the post – however….

        I am not asking or looking for a ‘break’. I plan on getting hired due to my skills and the value I bring to the company. Just as any potential employee would do.

        I did not stroll into the marketplace. I put in my time studying and trying to master my skills – then I went to work and made my way from a counter clerk to my present position of Network Admin/webmaster and Alaska wide rep for Fluke Networks. I worked to get to these positions, learning whatever I needed to do the job – and putting in the hours required to do it right.

        Thanks for trying to ‘ground’ me – but your arguments have already been broached and placed in their proper bin.

      • #2701886

        More tripe & bull

        by deepsand ·

        In reply to In the real world

        Thank you for your well reasoned response.

        NOT!

        The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

      • #2701124

        full of crap!!!

        by husp1 ·

        In reply to In the real world

        having read your load of crap I must think that we should have kept all those extermenation camps in germany so you could feel more secure with yourself, JERK!!!! people like you are the perfect reason for third term abortion. go suk eggs!!!

    • #2699883

      Don’t give up

      by cdmccane ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I feel that the circumstances surrounding the nature of your crime should be considered, and if you’ve been above board since your release – you deserve a chance.

      As far as being a top exec at a company – you’re going to have to do some footwork. The company you’ve been with for 4 years will help in yoyr endeavor to move up the ladder. References from your co-workers and employers as to your CHARACTER will have to be your edge.

      DON’T GIVE UP

    • #2699880

      Been There – Done That !!

      by jgeile ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Sidvail,
      I am now an owner of an EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) Manufacturing facility. Before I became an owner, I was in management for 10 years with another EPS company. During this period, I hired an employee who was just released from prison for a homicide. I hired him based on two things: 1. He was experienced and his qualifications were beyond those who interviewed for the position. 2. Thinking that anyone who gave this person a second chance would have a loyal and dedicated employee. I spoke with my managers and explained my thoughts to them. Some were concerned, and even scared of this move. I insisted they be professional and give it a chance. The end result, he worked out well. However, I had to force the issue. I had to insist on hiring him. I was the only one who enjoyed the thought of giving someone a second chance with such a past. You MUST proceed with your education, proceed with your career expectations, and prepare for rejections. Dont give up. There are people like me out there, you have to keep trying until you find them. Once hired, you will have to prove yourself by hard work and dedication beyond that of the normal employee. It is unfortunate, but it is the way the work force will judge you. However, this is a test of endurance, skill, and determination. This is a test you can pass – just do not give up until you accomplish your goal. As for the rejections, that is a price you may have to pay due to your past, but not something you cannot get beyond. In turn, it will make you a stronger person and will help re-build your self esteem. Good Luck,
      Jeff Geile

    • #2699875

      Go for it

      by jnasser ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I say go for it and get your certs it doesn’t hurt to try. As for hiring a person with a criminal background I would need more information depending if it was an accident or was that crime a DUI and the accident caused a death, or you just decided on killing a person because it was Monday it would all depend on the circumstances.

    • #2699872

      Maybe/Maybe Not

      by serverjockey ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      As an employer, I can say that 90% of most larger companies won’t even talk to you and all contract positions require a background check so don’t even bother. It’s really frustrating to get ahold of someone you think is going to be a good fit so you spend a lot of time interviewing, etc and then come to find out the guy’s got a record and you can’t place him anywhere, anyway! Now some of the smaller companies might not care but you never know until you try!

    • #2699869

      Truth? or real hogwash!

      by husp1 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Look the real answer is staring you in the face. As you can see there are a few good eggs. a few preachers(with no intent), and a few jerks. So perhaps you should base your decision more on geographics, Will I receive a better cert at this school or that one?

      • #2701946

        Truth

        by sidvail ·

        In reply to Truth? or real hogwash!

        Actually there are quite a few good eggs here. Most everyone has said “Yes, go for it” Showing a positive outlook, and being quite open to a man’s skills and intent – vs – his past.

        That was my original intent – to find out if it was a ‘no contest, not a chance in hell’ or ‘it all depends on the person hiring’.

        I had fully expected an answer detailing security risks and fear of personal safety. Instead, I received encouragement and solid advice.

    • #2699864

      Criminal background

      by maverick73 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      The real question to me is would you even get past an HR review ? Your resume might not even reach the hands of the hiring manager, so whatever we say may be moot.

      Second question: Would you get hired anywhere ? Regardless of it being I.T. or Accounting. Again it comes back to the H.R. question.

      Personally, I’d need to know the details of the crime (if I’m even allowed to ask). How long ago ? Circumstances ? etc…. NT4 is a good base to start with. At least you won’t be a Win2x newbie.

      Good luck

    • #2699863

      Among your certifications, do they include?

      by naiditch ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Homicide sounds like an anger management issue unless it was done for either monetary or social profit (“with the victim out of the way, my life is now better”). So, I would be interested as your prospective employer in knowing whether you have gone through anger management, and whether it did any good (post prison crimes).

      There would be extreme exposure for liability by hiring a known felon who was tried, convicted and served serious time for murder, should one day you went “Postal” so to speak.

    • #2699860

      Yes to the Certs, go for your own.

      by rgriego2 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      My advice as an ex-con my self is to go ahead and get your certs, knowledg is power. On the flip side of this issue, you are better off using your knowledge to do your own thing. Most companies these days do extensive criminal background checks and in doing so base their decisions, in part so to speak, on these checks. I personally think that the minute they find anything they disregaurd your app or resume. I could be wrong but I don’t think so. I still think that you are better off on your own. My record stems from my youth, over 25 years ago but it still haunts me. I am in business for myself using the knowledge that I have attained through the years, A+, MCSE, CISCO etc…
      Go For Your Own, you will be MUCH better off.
      R. G.

    • #2699859

      Yes to the Certs, go for your own.

      by rgriego2 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      My advice as an ex-con my self is to go ahead and get your certs, knowledg is power. On the flip side of this issue, you are better off using your knowledge to do your own thing. Most companies these days do extensive criminal background checks and in doing so base their decisions, in part so to speak, on these checks. I personally think that the minute they find anything they disregaurd your app or resume. I could be wrong but I don’t think so. I still think that you are better off on your own. My record stems from my youth, over 25 years ago but it still haunts me. I am in business for myself using the knowledge that I have attained through the years, A+, MCSE, CISCO etc…
      Go For Your Own, you will be MUCH better off.
      R. G.

    • #2699852

      Go for it!

      by lfncomputer ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      As an ex-felon myself, and because my charge is differenft from yours, I would not be able to get some positions because of the bonding issue, and found that I have to pursue employment as a self-employed person, where I don’t neccessarily have to discuss my past history. I am continuing to get various certifications as well. I would go on my own, if I found that in the course of looking for work that your past becomes a major issue. Anyway, I am cheering for you!

    • #2699851

      History vs Present

      by gsquared ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      First, as a note, I don’t think right now is a great time to try to get into the IT field as a profession. There is a bit of an oversupply of IT personnel in the job market right now. Of course, I’m in Houston, you’re in Alaska; the situation might be different in your market.

      If you are in a competitive market, I think that most potential employers will go one of two ways:

      (a) They will take an equally trained/skilled person who has a clean record because IT personnel have to be “safe”.

      (b) They will take you on out of a sense of charity or a “give him a chance” attitude. You’re more likely to find that in a small business with a charitable owner.

      Personally, if I were hiring right now, I’d give you an interview and a standard battery of personality and skill tests, the same as I would give anyone else. In your case, I’d look into the history of the crime, the trial, the record in prison, and a bunch of possibly rather personal questions about your present life.

      If, for example, you plead guilty and served your time cleanly, that would be a positive mark in my book. If, on the other hand, you caused problems at trial (any contempt type charges), had to be sent to solitary repeatedly while serving, had a record of trouble with guards/personnel, or anything like that, that would be a negative mark. Simply pleading not guilty and having an orderly trial and a “normal” prison experience would be neither positive nor negative in my book.

      I’d want to know if you spend a lot of your current time in the company of other ex-inmates. Yes, friendships can be born in prison, as anyplace else, but also there is strong evidence that ex-cons often group up in order to engage in further criminal activity. I wouldn’t assume the worst, but I’d want to know.

      I’d want to know about the murder; was it a crime of passion that’s not likely to happen again (e.g.: you found someone in bed with your wife and went berserk) or was premeditated first degree, or aggravated first degree (e.g.: your took money to kill someone). That would also matter. Yes, someone who went berserk once could possibly do so again, in which case I’d want to know what you’ve done to prevent that. If it were a deliberate murder for personal gain, I’d definitely not hire.

      I think what this boils down to is (a) if you’re competing against others for the same job, assume you need to be better trained and more skilled, and (b) be prepared for any potential employer to ask a LOT of questions and to spend a lot of time answering them or providing sources (name of judge, etc.) who can supply the needed data.

      If someone does start asking a lot of questions, assume that means they are considering you for the job and that they just want to make sure that the workplace will be safe with you in it. That would be a good sign.

    • #2699849

      You can do it.

      by vaughanm ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I do not see that your criminal history should be a problem with getting employment with networking. Your conviction is not for dishonesty. I also have a criminal conviction and I do not see that it is an issue with gaining employment, if the employer has an issue with your past then it is their problem and loss. From what you have said, I see that you are open, honest and willing. With the qualifications you have and the experience you should have no problem with getting that dream job.
      Go for it, You can do it.

    • #2699848

      Competitive Realism

      by drmemory ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I believe that you may find some permanent employment opportunities open to you, but the market will be made smaller by security policy considerations. Anyone requiring a criminal background check will likely exclude all felony convictions. It is just not practical to review this on a case-by-case basis.
      Contract work would still be possible and made more available by additional certifications. Before you move on to independence, consider the replacement value of your current benefits package and any possible career path at your current employer against the time and cost of marketing yourself and the amount of revenue you can realistically generate.
      Manage your employment like a business and you will not only gain personally, but also professionally as you apply the same principles that new opportunities will/should use.

    • #2699845

      Go For It!

      by vconnell ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      If you have the ability and have proven yourself then you have every right to pursue a career in the IT field!! It should be a matter of how well you do the job not social prejudice. Whatever happened to belief in rehabilitation?? If our prison system is not doing its’job then let’s get to the bottom of where the real problem lies. I hope and pray you soar like an eagle in your knowledge of computers!

    • #2699843

      Honesty is the best policy

      by pedwards17 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I was once in restaurant management, and one restaurant I managed worked with a local detention center’s work release program. Most of the “back of the house” workers I had (dishwashers, cooks, etc) were from the program. My attitude was always to help them as much as I could as long as they were intent on improving their lives. I was never sorry, and, frankly, I wound up with some very loyal employees as a result.

    • #2699840

      Been There, Done That

      by gihly ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I was released from the Washington State Correction Center in 1969. I learned to code COBOL while there and was on training release for six months prior to my actual release. Everyone I worked with new my circumstances.
      I’m sure there was some anxiety when I was hired as a Progrmmer Trainee by the Dept of Institutions. This soon disappeared as I proved my worth.
      I left the State in the early eighies. I was an Assistant Manager of Information Systems. I contracted for many years and then after 9/11 that was not a good place to be for “Mainframers”.
      I returned to the state and was hired by a gentleman that I had hired.
      I am now an Information Technology Application Specialist 5.
      What you get out of this business is directly relational to how much you put in with a pinch of patience.
      Gary

    • #2699839

      Few small companies do Criminal Background Checks

      by is girl ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      The truth is that only very large companies routinely do Criminal Background Checks as part of their hiring process. It’s just too expensive for smaller, privately held companies to justify.

      If you are selective about the companies you consider working for, it may never come up as part of the interview process.

      The only potential flag for a smaller company is the question on employment apps regarding felony convictions. I would recommend that you avoid filling out the app and attach a resume instead to avoid having to lie about it.

      However, if the HR Dept. insists you fill out the app, you are faced with a choice — lie and say you’ve never been convicted of a felony (and run the risk of being found out and terminated for lying later), or tell the truth and hope you are given the chance to explain.

      I am sorry to say that if given the choice between a convicted felon and someone with a clean criminal background, most companies are not going to hire someone with a criminal background.

      So…your options are more limited than if you were never convicted, but it is not impossible to find employement in IT with a criminal background.

    • #2699834

      If you are unluck, try another place or country

      by julioairizar ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      My friend, I don’t know what will happen there, where you are, but if you can not be hire by anyone, you can try another place or state or even another country, where nobody knows nothing about you. For example, in my country: Cuba, the most important thing is what you are capable to do in the present moment, talking about criminal records. If you already pay for your past acts, you will never have a problem to get a job, at least you are not able to do it. At the end it’s all depend on you.

      • #2699157

        Whoa, bad advice…

        by gaijinit ·

        In reply to If you are unluck, try another place or country

        Julio..
        I never had the chance to go to Cuba (not yet, anyway), but I have been bounced around in South America, Europe, Russia, the Middle East and most of S.E. Asia for 25 years working in transmission engineering and now IT consulting (in Japanese, ‘gaijin’ = foreigner/’outside person’/uncivilized barbarian – take your pick), and please believe me, job applications in most places are not protected against privacy intrusion like they are in the USA.
        Most places, they ask you ANYTHING and refusal to answer ANYTHING usually simply ends the discussion on the spot.
        Sidvail is being real, and he is willing to work for what he gets, but to do that he deserves a fair shake, and in most countries, his background won’t give him that, whether it is fair or not.
        I don’t know anything about daily life in Cuba, and I’m not trying to say anything bad it, but Sidvail doesn’t need to be shuffled off in shame to someplace where he has to hide, he wants to be accepted as a working man where he is.
        This is not an attack on you, please don’t misunderstand me, because your posting was basically supportive. But from your email domain, it looks like you are now living in Mexico? So you must have chosen to travel or work wherever you want, and Sidvail deserves the same choice.

    • #2699830

      Admin with a criminal background

      by j.perera ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      The past does not equal the future. You have the attitude to do some thing with your future by the sounds of things in the IT Industry. You should go for it no matter what, that’s the only way you’re going to find out. Do not listen to negative persons who may look at it from your past and give a negative view. If you have the hart and attitude you are 80% already there, to get what you want just be “consistent” in your efforts in achieving your goal/s and believe in yourself – it doesn’t matter what other think, it what you thing that matters. Some time it best not to ask what other think – If you listen to the negative attitudes of other you?re only going to fall victim and loose focus.
      I have a crazy history myself and I own my own IT business in software development and provide Network Solution in Windows NT environment to corporate client.

      You need some tools to help you – I strongly suggest that you listen to Personnel Power CD’s from Anthony Robbins to help you along the way – you will not regret it…. These CD?s will condition your mind and pave the way to achieving you final result and more.

      You must condition you mind to not think about your past ? easily said then done… may be – but if you can train your mind to do this you will see big progress and results.

      The All the Best

      Jehan

    • #2699831

      Past/Present/Future

      by mpatten ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Sidvail,

      If your only mistake in the past is what was mentioned, your record after your time is proof that you are doing well. You can collect references from your current employer and fellow employees. With that in hand and any further education and certifications, you should be well on your way for making a good career move for the future. Go for it.

    • #2699828

      Upwards

      by puneetteja ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I like to have people on my team who are going
      upwards in their careers.

      I would see that the delta change in your life
      has been positive so you would be on my
      shortlist.

      BTW: Does one really check a candidate for
      criminal record?? In my 7 years in IT
      management, I haven’t!!!

    • #2699809

      Admin with a criminal background

      by steve ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      On most applications it askes if you have been convicted of a felony. Answering this honestly may take you out of the running for some. But will impress the right people in the right job for you.
      I have always belived in second chances and I know that there are alot like me. The fact that you have come out with the attitude that you will make a good honest life for yourself and have made the effort to gain knowledge and persue a carrer will help in your search.
      I wish you good luck and never give up.

    • #2699805

      If they wont hire you then kill them 8 – }

      by itisforme ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Never divulge negative aspects about yourself. Always make the other person do the work to find any faults and make them work harder to find your faults then they make you put forth your positive aspects. With every fault that they find about you, hold their feet to the fire and make them justify everything in the same manor that they expect from you. Nobody deserves more for themselves then they expect from others dot period.

      No matter what anybody states here most people would shit their pants if they knew that they were interviewing or working with a killer. They would be far more afraid of upsetting you then anything else. If they make it easy for you then reciprocate and if they make it hard, dido. No matter what when you go on an interview the main topic is your ability to do the job and your mission is to stay on topic and you don?t do that by divulging your negatives. If someone focuses on your negatives then you have one foot out the door and the foot on a Banana peel. If they find out then use fear to your advantage. Instead of letting then have a free ride on your negatives and grind you into the ground. Let them fear about upsetting you. Turn your negatives around and make them justify their concerns about them. When you get caught doing a crime you pay the fine and do the time. You have done that. All further punishment is completely unjustified. Use killing to your advantage. You did it at least once and if you can?t have a life then let them think that they may loose theirs.

    • #2699803

      Why not CEO? Our “President” is a criminal!

      by the daleks ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Sidvail,

      It sounds like you have been rehabilitated, have paid your debt to society and are ready to move on with your life in a serious and productive manner. Bravo, and best of luck to you!

      Meanwhile, America’s so-called “President” is a drunk-driving, coke-snorting, army-deserting crook who has killed far more people than you ever did, and he is completely unrepentant.

      OK, so America did choose to hire the other guy four years ago, but what the heck — our “President” is the toast of multi-millionaires across the nation!

      • #2699768

        You meant to say the former dualistic president Clinton & Clinton

        by itisforme ·

        In reply to Why not CEO? Our “President” is a criminal!

        The dope ,, dopehead that catered to the other rich folks in Hollywood and all the liberal elite and their pet special interest projects. The impeached criminal and disgraced president.

        • #2699736

          Nobody died when Clinton lied

          by the daleks ·

          In reply to You meant to say the former dualistic president Clinton & Clinton

          What’s the Bush body count up to? 907 as of July 24….any more today? Heck, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz isn’t even counting any more.

          The worst thing Bill Clinton did was get a BJ under the desk. That’s none of our business. But the unelected “President” who committed treason by doing business with terrorist financiers gave $30,000 welfare checks to multi-millionaires and handed the bill to our kids. (Who did you say caters to rich folks??)

          Remember during the 2000 campaign when Bush said “The majority of my tax cuts will go to lower income people”? That makes him a 1st-class liar, doesn’t it? Much worse than lying about a BJ, wouldn’t you agree? And forget lying about WMDs…

          But to make the ripped-off kids feel better, the “President” has made sure their rates of resperatory disease will increase, since he gutted the Clean Air act. You know how well voluntary emissions controls work? When Bush did this as Governor, Houston became the #1 most polluted city in the US.

          I’d much rather hire a rehabilitated convict like Sidvail than an unrepentant, treacherous crook like the “President.”

        • #2699701

          Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          by itisforme ·

          In reply to Nobody died when Clinton lied

          Clinton was to busy catering to Gays Blacks and other minorities that the Hollywood elite kowtow to. Clinton degraded the military and gave the money to these special interests to keep them on his side while his commie machine tried to cover up all his scandals. This left the terrorists build up in strength and fly planes into the twin towers. The war that Bush has been fighting is do to the fact that Clinton let in happen while his cronies in the cabinet were covering up sexual assaults on women. Every American that dies is do to Clinton groping other women and getting a B.J. from an intern.

          Keep your self justified liberal vomit out of these forums.

        • #2699698

          Yes..

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          And I’m pretty sure that Clinton is personally responsible for the black plague. And the Spanish inquisitions.

        • #2699684

          Typical Republican nonsense

          by the daleks ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          Your racist comments and poor use of English say all that anyone needs to know about the Republicans. Thank you for making that clear for people to see.

        • #2703504

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Typical Republican nonsense

          Has anyone besides me noticed that the only way liberals can make a point is to include some type of personal attack. You see it in these threads, you see it in the media, you see it in your daily interactions with them. Hmmm…

        • #2699621

          Typical Republican nonsense

          by the daleks ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          Your racist comments and poor use of English say all that anyone needs to know about the Republicans. Thank you for making that clear for people to see.

        • #2703502

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Typical Republican nonsense

          …and this person felt so strongly about their attacks that he posted it twice.

        • #2701878

          Tit for tat

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          And you, sir, will kindly do us the favor of keeping your ill reasoned tripe from our view as well.

          The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

        • #2701657

          Let Me Guess…

          by business guy ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          You are in Montana, Idaho, Alabama, or some other lost real estate in what used to be the US. You spend a lot of time getting buzz cuts, taking paintball lessons, and hanging out with your mouth breathing buddies.

          Just a guess.

        • #2701052

          Dyslexic Homophobe?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          The title says it all.

        • #2701047

          Read the 9/11 Commission report

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          If you are going to take a public position, you would be well advised to apprise yourselg of the relevant facts before you speak.

          Said commission’s findings of fact state that unlike Clinton, Bush FAILED to become sufficiently personally involved with the salient issues; i.e. he displayed a failure to lead.

          I would not call that a virtue of a good commander-in-chief.

        • #2699438

          Deepsand

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Read the 9/11 Commission report

          Deepsand,

          Well said, You are not so dumb after all. Just kidding….Yes, you are are so right.

          You being right does not mean we will be breaking bread together in the near future.

        • #2699169

          Thanks for the compliment.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Deepsand

          My problem with your posts have been that you offer conclusions only; no supporting empirical facts, and no logical thread leading from them to your conclusion.

          One of the first things that I learned as a Plebe at the US Naval Academy was that FACTS COUNT; opinions matter, but only when based on facts.

          If asked a factual question by a superior, there are only 2 acceptable responses; either a factual answer, or the rote response “I’ll find out, Sir.”

          If your factual response was incorrect, and you were asked why you answered incorrectly, the only acceptable response is “No excuse, Sir.”

          If it is the case that you guessed, and are asked why you guessed, the only acceptable response is “Sir, since I have neither diligently labored, nor brought forth pale and glimmering beads of perspiration upon my blanched and palid brow, I find myself in this inexcusable position of complete and utter ignorance which I now attempt to elucidate. Having but meager knowledge of the question concerned and acting on the erroneous assumption that my lettered interrogator might not recognize the rank inaccuracy of my attempt, acting more on a woman’s intuition than a midshipman’s erudition, and seizing blindly the abstruse possibility that my futile fumblings might prove correct—I guessed, Sir.”

          And, of course, if you were asked why you committed various other simple breaches of logic, there were equally tortuous responses that had to be memorized and spewed forth upon demand.

          The one simple point of all of these are to teach one to THINK BEFORE SPEAKING. It was a lesson well learned, and one that has stood me in good faith.

          It has also made me intolerant of those who have not learned this simple principle, and refuse to do so.

          Still, who knows, we may yet break bread together.

        • #2699260

          ARE YOU ON CRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          by eboneceo ·

          In reply to Clinton caused it all and is responsible for all the deaths

          THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT?

        • #3306601

          Ignorance Is Bliss…… Or Politically Expedient

          by tjaojc ·

          In reply to Nobody died when Clinton lied

          So, nobody died when Clinton lied?

          Did you have your head buried up your rectum when he conducted his high-altitude bombing campaign against Yugoslavia? The one that killed 3,000 civilians who had no ax to grind with the U.S.??? We later discovered that the “mass graves” in Kosovo were a lie, and that the true “butcher of the Balkans” was actually Slick Willie himself.

          No one died when Clinton Lied?
          Tell that to Vince Foster.
          Tell that to Ron Brown.
          Tell that to over 50 former Arkansas friends and acquaintances of Clinton’s who died “mysteriously” after either (1) knowing too much, and/or (2) wavering too much in their loyalty to the corrupt Clinton regime.

          No one died?
          If you have courage enough, look at http://www.twa800.com
          Look at how Slick Willie deliberately concealed the fact that al Qaeda shot down TWA 800 with shoulder fired missiles.

          And unfortunately, according to Yossef Bodansky, the Clinton cover-up of TWA 800 is one major reason why we begot 9/11.

          Son, until you’ve got all of the facts, don’t pretend to have an opinion worth spouting off about. Clinton was the most evil man to hold elected office in the U.S. His sale of advanced U.S. military technology to China will soon cost American lives in ways we can’t yet calculate.

          I’m a Libertarian, not a Bush-backer, but your view of current events is indicative of having your head buried up your ass.

        • #3306547

          Wrong lies

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Ignorance Is Bliss…… Or Politically Expedient

          The lies being referred to were those relating to Clinton’s sexual activities.

          Such personal activities are those of the private individual, not those of the holder of the office of the presidency. As such, there is, by definition, no causal relationship.

        • #2701894

          President G. Bush

          by warrior ·

          In reply to You meant to say the former dualistic president Clinton & Clinton

          Sorry,

          He meant present President Bush. What a shame to say things about someone when he is the mandate of the people. Right of Wrong…support your President and your country. Or you can try living in Irag where chopping heads off is the mainstay on the menue.

          Second thought I would not mind a blow job from Monica…sures beats murdering someone.

        • #2699161

          Bush is ‘Mandate of the people’???

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to President G. Bush

          Again, check the facts.

          Bush garnered a MINORITY of the popular vote!

        • #2699145

          Two in a Row

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Bush is ‘Mandate of the people’???

          Congratulations,

          What is going on two in a row? You are getting good.

        • #2698728

          Just doin’ my job

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Two in a Row

          As we say in the Navy, “The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little bit longer.”

          Glad to see you’re catching on.

          What’s for supper?

        • #2712944

          Missed your calling

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Just doin’ my job

          Head deep in the sand,

          Obviously you have missed your calling. I think being a politician would have suited you to a tee.

          You think it could have been racing those little bubbles to the surface that did it? Nitrogen does strange things to ones inner cranium, irrevocably dislodging a few brain cells.

          Putting everything back in its proper perspective I think you should read response “North is up”. Basically I think you are a decent person, just a little wacky.

          When was the last time you chased those minuscule, hemispherical, mesmerizing, almost translucent bubbles to the water’s surface?

          Oh, by the way we are having navy beans as our main staple tonight.

        • #2712797

          Great! I love Navy beans.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Just doin’ my job

          Nothing beats a big bowl of thick Navy beans & ham soup, preferably with oyster crackers.

          I’ll bring the brew. Your preference?

      • #2699664

        OT Threadjack

        by sublimedaze ·

        In reply to Why not CEO? Our “President” is a criminal!

        Thanks for trying to threadjack. Very callous and selfish of you to do it considering the number of other message boards, forums, blogs and chatrooms you could hijack.

        Please try somewhere else if you’d like to talk politics. It doesn’t belong in this thread with sidvail.

      • #2716426

        Because Clinton Lied, [Eventually] People Died [on 9/11/01]

        by suesmith ·

        In reply to Why not CEO? Our “President” is a criminal!

        When Clinton lied, Congress was forced to spend months investigating how he perjured himself. It wasn’t EVER about what he did w/Monica that was the problem(!) It was that he committed a felony by lying under OATH about it. Being an attorney, he should have known better, but he was arrogant. Upon learning that Mr. Clinton PERJURED himself, he was DISBARRED for 5 years (this is like DEATH to an attorney). Congress had to take valuable time from its agenda to spend discussing the gravity of Mr. Clinton’s offense–time that was supposed to be spent discussing NATIONAL SECURITY THREATS and ways to better protect the US from outside terrorists!!!!! It is a tiny bit of a stretch, but if you look at it this way–that b/c he committed perjury, he had to be investigated and people spent time and money that was intended to have been spent devising ways to protect us. So, it set Congress and the US back BIG TIME. Congress couldn’t enact laws or establish plans to prevent terrorism and the FBI’s resources were diverted to the investigation of perjury, (among quite a few other criminal activities the Clintons were involved in).

        So, if Clinton told the truth, no hearings would have been needed and Congress would have been able to discuss IMPORTANT topics like how to defend the US against global threats of terror. BECAUSE CLINTON LIED, [EVENTUALLY] PEOPLE DIED.

        p.s. I actually refuse to deal w/anyone who still insists Clinton was brought down b/c of sex, as well as anyone who insists Bush stole the election–b/c beliefs like that = blatant stupidity and total naivete about politics and society. I am well-read on politics, law and gov’t, so my opinion is certainly a well-informed one. I just thought it was important to dispute what your quote was b/c I’m sure you’re not the only person so terribly misguided and misinformed by the liberal media and half-truths. I’m guessing you’re not exactly a politics major, so I can cut you some slack, but it’s important to me to speak up when I hear people make comments like yours. I do happen to support our President, but no matter how you look at it, the ramifications of Clinton’s perjury were far-reaching and they continued for several years, as it took Congress a long time to get back to where they were headed before he committed a felony. If Clinton had any honor or integrity, he wouldn’t have committed a felony that wasted untold millions of dollars and he cost Americans by having their legislators distracted from their primary goal–keeping us safe. Also, b/c Clinton was such a flaming liberal, he and his lawyers objected to practically anything the FBI or CIA proposed about new measures of investigating threats. Ever heard of the ACLU? American Civil Liberties Union? A bunch of people who are concerned more with the rights of child molestors than the rights of th molestors’ victims. So, Clinton and his liberal supporters at the ACLU objected to the FBI and CIA’s requests to beef up counter-terrorism measures by conducting surveillance on known terrorists already within the US. They were concerned that Mohammad Atta and his gang of homicidal maniacs’ rights would be violated if they were tracked while within our borders. CLinton was more concerned that these people’s rights were protected than about what danger they could cause. So, in my opinion, by his actions and what they set in motion, Clinton and his administration have the blood of the 3,000 people who were murdered on 9/11/01 all over their hands.

        • #2716287

          Off topic & out of touch

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Because Clinton Lied, [Eventually] People Died [on 9/11/01]

          Aside from being off topic, your arguement is exceeding specious.

          The ‘facts’ that you quote, as premises for your conclusion, are incorrect and irrelevant.

          Rather than individually here dispute them, I strongly suggest that you read the 911 Commission’s report, which refutes your position.

          Said Commission finds that, UNLIKE CLINTON, BUSH FAILED to personally become sufficiently engaged in the ‘war on terror’; i.e., he exhibited a failure to lead.

          This is exactly the opposite of what is required of a commander-in-chief.

          As a USNA class-mate of Col. Oliver North, I can, withou hesitation, say that G.W. Bush is unfit for command!

          PS: Congress was NOT ‘FORCED’ to do anything re. Clinton’s foibles. Certain Republican’s merely seized the opportunity for political gain, at the country’s expense.

        • #2715970

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Off topic & out of touch

          I’m curious how being a classmate of Col. Oliver North at the Academy makes you qualified to say that G.W. is unfit for command? His actions certainly have no bearing on your credentials. Using his name doesn’t make you any more credible. Your opinion is your opinion, and no one can argue with you over that, however, prefacing your opinion knowledge of Olie North doesn’t make you any more qualified.

          I agree with your point about congress. I think they wasted millions of tax payer dollars going after Slick Willie.

        • #2715919

          For point of reference

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Re:

          The mention to Col. North was solely for the purpose of establishing a base time reference re. my age, and, therefore my life experiences in general as well as my military training & experience in particular.

          There was no implicit claim that his actions had any bearing on my credentials or my judgement of our commanders-in-chief, past or present.

          As a retired Naval Officer, who came of age during the Vietnam conflict, I consider myself more qualified to make judgements about G.W. Bush’s performance as commander-in-chief than those without traingin and experiences equivalent to mine.

          Unfortunately, while most civilians lack the knowledge and experience to know how to judge one’s performance as a military leader, they nonetheless persist in claiming otherwise.

          The 911 Commission’s official findings support my conclusion re. this matter.

          Furthermore, I find particulary bothersome those, such as the one to whom I was responding, who either selectively chose as their premises only those facts which seem to support their position, or offer only opinions in support of opinions.

    • #2699801

      No It Should Not Automatically Prejudice You

      by pasgroup ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I think sidvail has done what I would expect a prospective employee to do. Be honest and make me aware of his conviction.

      The way I see it is if an employee covered up this or other important information and it came out later you would not give them the trust they may otherwise have enjoyed.

      I firmly believe in taking someone on their merit and if someone had the honesty (guts) to make me aware of this type of past they just went up a few notches on my employability scale.

      I am sure there will be some readers who are totally opposed to this view, just think about it for a minute.

      This guy has just been more open and honest than the average employee is so why not give him a chance to prove himself to you.

      I have sat across the table during interviews and had people openly lie about things that would obviously come out in any basic background check hoping they were convincing enough that we would not check…WRONG. Most employers make at least a basic check before employing someone.

      Who would you employ?
      The person that was totally honest or someone who may have bent the truth even a little bit to impress you.

      Of course it would also depend on the nature of the work involved and the type of problem they may have had in the past, either way I would also be honest and make them aware of the exact reason I could not employ them or if they were successful I may suggest some supervision or audit process initially. This would provide both the employee and I a safety net if the problem was ever used against the employee by other staff members.

      I have had it happen and having this information at hand allowed be to give my full backing to the person to resolve the situation.

      Thank you Sid for your open and honest approach.

      Pat – Pasgroup

    • #2699777

      Do you plan to stay with the same company?

      by bonnys13 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      The only exception for you would be obtaining a security clearance if you applied for certain jobs. You obviously have been doing a good job with your current position or you wouldn’t still be there. I would suggest talking with your company and see if they would assist you in obtaining your MCSE and see where it goes from there. They obviously do not have an issue with your previous record – they seem more concerned with your current abilities.

      Sid, good luck and congratulations with turning your life around – you should be proud.

      Bonny

      • #2701939

        Reply To: Admin with a criminal background

        by sidvail ·

        In reply to Do you plan to stay with the same company?

        Thank you Bonny.

        Unfortunately this is a small company. As stated, there are only 24 stations, 2 web cams and 2 servers. Enough to occupy maybe 2 hours out of my day. No opportunity to rise any further unless I buy the company. LOL. For the rest of the day, I am the Alaska rep for Fluke Networks and also account manager for our computer dept dealing with Muni, state, federal and corporate clients. *salesman*

        I love the company, and feel somewhat proprietary towards it – but I do realize that I’m at the top here and must start looking elsewhere soon if I’m to grow. Stagnation to me is, forgive the pun, murder – and I need challenges to keep me growing. To keep me sane.

        I really am proud of what I’ve accomplished. More so, I marvel at the support I’ve received. Definately not the antagonistic wall that the other ‘cons’ said I would run into once I was released. You really do get back what you give.

    • #2699775

      Admin with a criminal background

      by waterbj ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I beleive that would that I would first see if you were the best qualified candidate. I would then make a decision regarding your criminal background based on chemistry or fit. I would like to feel you out regarding temper, chip on the shoulder, attitude, perhaps (if legal) a reference from your parole officer and how hard you want the job.

      Years ago I worked with a fella who was convicted of manslaughter. He did his time and seemed to make a wonderful turn around in life. I thought the world of him. Unfortunately, people (less educated or tolerant) knew of his background and treated him differently. He ended up quiting the job.

      I would be up front with in your job application and interview. I would also ask the person(s) to keep that confidential so that you can be ‘judged’ by the work you do.

      I personnaly would hire you although, admittedly I would look harder for a reason not to hire you. Advice: live clean, be the best parent and husband and son…..that you can be, positive attitude with everyone and work hard. Do this with everything and make sure any references see this ethic. People judge and respect these qualities the most.

      Go for it! JW Senior Project Manager (Large financial bank institution)

    • #2699757

      Two Words

      by pdouglas4294 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Good Luck

      • #2701941

        Two Words…and more

        by richman316 ·

        In reply to Two Words

        NO WAY!

        I’m sorry if I sound insensible but I would rather just avoid this individual and move on to a more qualified person. 19 years for homicide is not something light and I hope he understands that and is able to accept the consequences. Even though it?s the past it still says more about you then what most people think.

        • #2701809

          No f*****g way

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Two Words…and more

          Just three words,

          No F*****g Way

        • #2701180

          A well reasoned response. NOT!

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to No f*****g way

          The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

    • #2699755

      I don’t think so!

      by pjromero ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I understand that this person may have served his time; but as an IT manager, I cannot see myself hiring a person with a felony record. I cannot see my self entrusting my network to a convicted felon.
      The industry doesn?t need to have that stigma associated with it. Like the notion that you learn to be a locksmith in prison. When in fact you have pass three levels of a background check (local, state and federal) and any felony conviction will prevent you from getting a license.
      There are plenty of qualified people in the IT industry and I would think that once it was known the person was a convicted felon, that person would be eliminated as a perspective employee.

      • #2701897

        Yet one more illogical reply

        by deepsand ·

        In reply to I don’t think so!

        What stigma? The one that is created by your own illogical prejudice?

        And, what makes this industry so different from the all the rest that we must avoid the ‘taint’ of employing any but those without sin?

    • #2699740

      I say try it

      by aldanatech ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Of course that decision is at the discression of HR, but if it was up to me I would hire you. Okay, so you made a mistake and made your time; that is now in the past. As of now you seem to have valuable skills for a position as Network Administrator. Also, just because a conviction does not mean that a company must reject you. They must first examine several factors before reaching a final decision. Now its the time to re-do your life, and it would be such a bad idea to get as many certifications as possible. Remember that in this field, there is no such thing as overqualified. I would also suggest counseling from an attorney if a company gives a hard time.

    • #2699739

      Of course you will

      by leddleman ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Sid, my husband also has a criminal background, Violence, drug charges. After release he got his MCSE and others, has been working with the same company ever since.

    • #2699734

      Fortunately you live in Alaska

      by tundraroamer ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      So do I. You already know what the people here are like. After reading these other posts, you will realize how lucky we are to live here and not where these other people “live”. Don’t be afraid of the gospel; don’t be afraid of the challenge before you. But I believe you will have a better chance here to expand your carreer path than in most of the places these other writers are from.
      Besides, you could always move to Fairbanks! (inside joke to you outsiders)
      I do some charitable work and work along side some ex-cons. Some I didn’t even know about but since I had already made my decision to trust them based on what I knew, it made little difference. Not all stay on the correct path; their choice just like the admin who intentionally alters his network after termination in order to get “even”.
      Take the advice about keeping yourself out of trouble; get active and involved in the community so you can try a different type of networking!

    • #2699729

      Admin with a criminal background

      by dosman4 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      If a company runs a background check on you, which most company’s do now a days, you may not get the job that you are looking to fill, no matter how many certs you have, also your age means a lot in the IT field! most companys what young looking people for the job. Been there and done that and been truned down for a younger person many of times. Be right up front with the interviewer, about your pass!! and maybe how you come across with your answers to the questions that you are being asked you may land a job. But remenber one thing, that you will be truned away from many jobs because of your criminal record. But they will not come out and say that this was the reason that you did not get the job and also your age.

      Miguel

    • #2699727

      Make a Good Impression

      by the_punisher79 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Hey, I respect you for posting this question and wanting to make something of your life. A changed person can be one of the most effective people in any endeavor. I do have a couple things that I would look for in a potential employee, no matter if you’ve committed a murder or were the Pope himself.

      1. Character – If you have no internal moral compass, religious or not, that guides you to make right decisions, somewhere down the line when you have to make those difficult “gray” decisions, you will choose wrong

      2. Appearance – This is a BIG one. I’m not trying to be stereotypical, but someone who walks in with tattoos all over their body, long dyed hair and a couple earrings is not going to catch my eye as a professional. On the street, in the club, in prison, or hangin’ out, it might be cool, but not in a corporate environment. Look your best and you will feel like doing your best. If you DO have tattoos, don’t flaunt them.

      3. Language – Talk like someone who is confidant and doesn’t need to use slang or profanity to get their point across. “Street talk” or the lack a strong understanding of the English language is something that turns off alot of people, management or not.

      4. Don’t act like you deserve something or in the other extreme, you feel like you owe everyone and anyone an apology. Don’t make yourself look bad by telling the interviewer all the bad things you’ve done and how much of a bad person you are. BE HONEST though, don’t try and hide things, even the little things. It goes back to the character thing, doing well when others aren’t looking.

      Good luck to you man,

    • #2699723

      good luck

      by ballroomdancer ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      It all depends on the company.

      It is highly unlikely that you would get hired by companies or government that require security clearances before you can even start the job.

      Your best hope would be smaller organizations & companies.

      The well wishing in all the “god” posts are all fine and dandy but reality in the business world is different than this.

    • #2699713

      Woah, Woah, let’s get back to reality here!

      by robotech ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I am a christian, and I don’t believe it’s bigotry to say that someone will have to prove himself other than saying “I’ve found God”. Some people will ‘accept’ God just to fool the crowd.

      I would give you an interview, just to see what you have done with your life since leaving prison. I worked my way from Telecom into IT and I know that’s time consuming, especially for someone without the scientific and electronic background that I had.
      So obviously you have been using your time wisely.
      If after the interview I were satisfied that I you were a better choice than the other applicants, I would hire you. Because someone committed murder it doesn’t mean that they are a thief, or that they will commit fraud. One has to take into consideration the circumstances that led someone to murder. Sometimes people get imprisoned on a technicality, so I would really need to understand the circumstances of your crime before knowing what precautions to take. Still, I would give you a job if you were qualified and if I were convinced that you have lived down your past. To be honest, as a consultant, I think there are a lot of people on the outside who should actually be in prison. Keep busy working and getting your certs, and yes, it’s not a bad idea to read the Bible (Hebrews 4:12), what is more important is the APPLICATION of what you read, and just like your certs, if you apply what you learn it will show in your attitude and the work you do.

    • #2699712

      No chance

      by narendra ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I fully understand that this was in the past but personally speaking i’d not hire ex-con in my organisation as it give the wrong image, also with regards to IT skills why pick ex-con when you can have someone who is not with the same skills ?

      Regards

      Josh

      • #2701895

        Look in the mirror

        by deepsand ·

        In reply to No chance

        So, we should avoid the stigma of hiring an ex-con, but rejoice being in the exhalted light of your ‘image’?

        • #2701810

          Murderer or purse snatcher?

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Look in the mirror

          Still don’t think you got the message. This guy did not go to prison for 19 years for purse stealing. He cold bloodily took someone?s life. Luckily for you it was not your kin, so nothing to worry about eh! Hire him…do yourself a favor. Money talks, Bullshit walks.

        • #2701181

          Closed mind, open mouth

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Murderer or purse snatcher?

          Irrelevant, immaterial, and inconsequential; and, assumes facts not in evidence.

          Clearly, you are one given to jump to conclusions, as well as being unforgiving in nature.

          The difference between intellignece & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

      • #2713367

        Josh, You are an A$$

        by paul d. masley ·

        In reply to No chance

        Enough Said

    • #2699711

      Doubtfull outlook

      by vsavitz ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I am a father of a 24 yr old son, he commited a crime when he turned 18 and spent his time on probation. Just a little background.

      He was working a a desktop admin for a medical insurance company for the past 5 years. He was recently offered a new job in another city and was in the mists of moving when the company just fired him without warning or anything. Apparently when they did the initial background check on him it came up clean and when they offered him this new position they redid the background check. However on this one it showed that he had a criminal background. For this reason they fired him and it is doubtfull whether he will ever be able to work in another medical insurance company again.

      He has applied to have the criminal background expunged from his record, but the damage is done. His crime was minor and compared to yours (Homicide). He will still have a rough road to go in order to get a job in the IT field again. There are to many young college people with IT degrees out there (He doesn’t have any) and the market is just to saturated to support people with any kind of criminal background.

      Your best bet is to get into NOS/IOS security. Once you have the certs in these fields you may stand a chance. But I am not even certain of that.

      I myself am a 50 yr old veteran with 28 years in the military do Network design and implementation. I can’t even find a job in the IT area, even at the entry level. You should really retink your job path.

      Good luck.

    • #2699696

      One good advice for any direction you will find

      by info ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Do not give up , in any Rison don’t give up.

    • #2699688

      I’m not sure

      by xjfx ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I honestly don’t know. On one hand if you paid your debt to society I don’t feel anyone has the right to deny you a fresh start in life. But homicide shows a blatant disregard for human life and i’d have trouble hiring someone who has so little regard for taking someone’s life, I’m not sure how much reagrd he’d have for me and my company that employs him. I guess i’d need to know more circumstances about the crime before i make up my mind.

      • #2699643

        I gotta agree…

        by is girl ·

        In reply to I’m not sure

        Honestly (and I don’t wish to offend but…), I am under the impression that someone who is willing to commit murder is also willing to lie. I also think that those who end up in prison probably committed more than one crime in their life in order to end up there – this was simply the one that stuck.

        And, don’t all prisoners claim to be innocent? (Don’t they all find God, too?) I would be afraid that an ex-con was “spinning” the story to make me feel sympathy for him, knowing that I have no way to double check the circumstances of his crime.

        And….what about the other employees? Is it fair to expose them to the risk of working with a murderer? If they are told, they will hold it against the new employee and if they are not told, they may be unknowingly at risk.

        I agree that people can rehabilitate and I always assumed there were employement and training programs to help them in that endeavor, but I hope that I don’t someday discover that I’ve been working shoulder to shoulder with an ax murder who convinced the boss that he should be given a second chance.

        • #2699606

          I don’t think so!!!

          by robotech ·

          In reply to I gotta agree…

          I’m not sure if you read my previous post, but before reading it consider this.
          My friend who is a carpenter is hispanic. He does beautiful work, he’s honest and clean cut and he gets referrals from a reputable company. A client from New York was referred to him to do some remodelling on her apartment here in Florida. He gave her a quote, but she decided to go with someone else instead. A couple days later she called him back to ask him to do the job. What happened? In the parking lot of the reputable store, she ran into a guy, blonde hair blue eyes, and a neat looking vehicle with magnetic stickers etc. The guy convinced her to give him the job and she did (obviously she was more comforatable with this guy than with my friend who speaks good english but with an accent). My friend is licensed, insured, certified, and all of this in carpentry.
          Anyway, the guy who the lady met in the parking lot cleaned out her apartment and ran up her credit card $7,500.00 before dissapearing. So now my friend had to go back and do the job that he was denied before just because he’s hispanic.
          I was off that day, so I helped him finish the job. By the way, my friend spent time in prison in his native country. And the guy who ripped off the lady is also an immigrant (Eastern Europe).
          My friend did not murder anyone in his native land, nor did he steal anything. He just had certain beliefs that the government in his native land was not in agreement with, and so he got a criminal record when he was 18.
          As a consultant, I run into a lot of people with a clean criminal background, but they still rip me off sometimes, and some I figure out from very early that I don’t want to do business with them. Yes, there are some very bad people out there, and I should take people’s criminal records into consideration. Nevertheless, when all is said and done, circumstances, and the reputation that someone has built up over the past 5 to ten years is more important to me than a ‘clean’ criminal record.
          There are people who have had there criminal records ‘cleaned’ either because they were very young at the time they commited the crime or because of a technicality introduced by a smart lawyer. These are the most dangerous people, because they become hardened in their ways and they learn how to avoid the law. Criminals who have not been reformed usually lack the discipline to study, work hard, and build the reputation that Sidvail now has. So what he has accomplished so far is a good sign.
          In fact, he may even find a job with a medium sized company whose owner used to be in prison, someone who understands his plight and would be willing to give him a chance.

        • #2699160

          Cliched reply. Where are your FACTS?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to I gotta agree…

          You’ve been watching too many TV shows and/or movies, or listening to those who do.

          Everything that you’ve said merely recounts old cliches. Nowhere do I find any FACTS being offered.

          As you have clearly never experienced any of that about which you speak, you would be well advised to seek out those who have.

          Then, come back here and offer us a cogent argument. Until, then, watch, listen, and learn.

          May the future be kind.

    • #2699687

      don’t worry sidvail

      by hi_min2 ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      dear sidvail,
      At present if u r honest and hardworking man then u ‘ll have nothing to worry.if u’ve left your past then now u make make your future with ur hard work.Nobody is a criminal from birth but it is the society or the people that changes the life of a man to a criminal.u may see that mostly the politicians have a criminal background even in our country INDIA most of the politicians ‘ve criminal bak ground but the rule. it is the habbit of people that they cann’t live the person normally, who has great achievements.they jealous that person who is better from them. so dear don’t worry.
      keep ur work honestly.

    • #2699685

      I to have a similar issue

      by bratt ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      I to have a criminal background and I work in IT but what I have done in the past is not who I am now. I was young and stupid and since have made a difference in alot of teenagers lives by telling my story in schools to help prevent someone from making the same mistake. I was told to find another career but you know what I refuse because one thing I have learned from being in prison is life is what you make it and what ever you choose to do be the very best at what you are doing, hold your head up high and just know that the person you are now is who they know not the person you were and don’t let them down. Hope this helped.

    • #2699679

      He can NOT be for real –

      by drew.mcbee-tradesmeninternational ·

      In reply to Admin with a criminal background

      Does anyone think that this could be a “joke”? Sounds like someone with a little time on thier hands. I mean really – 19 years, homocide? Theres a lot of details here that don’t fit….Certainly seems to have worked, though…..

      • #2701891

        Begging for insight

        by deepsand ·

        In reply to He can NOT be for real –

        Please, oh great and omniscient one, please enlighten us with the details of all the inconsistencies which are so transparent to you, but blind the rest of us.

      • #2701807

        What a hoax!!!!!!!

        by warrior ·

        In reply to He can NOT be for real –

        I think this will be my last response (reply). This guy thinks we are all jerks, and mustered up about 75% of jerks (just read their responses). You guys keep on playing his game.

        Come on now….19 years in prison for murder….What debt did he pay to society. Ask the victims kin if they have been vindicated. What a hoax!!!!!!!

        He is full of it. I spent 4 stints in Alaska. 6 months you are in darkness what a place. Sure makes you think up some weird sh*t.

        • #2701173

          Speaking of being “Full of it”

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to What a hoax!!!!!!!

          Your vocabulary alone marks you as one not given to ratioanl discourse.

          Please do the rest of us a favor and hold to your decision to withdraw from this discussion. You are a disgrace to our profession.

          The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

        • #2699467

          Ratioanl??????

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Speaking of being “Full of it”

          Ratioanl???? What is that? Head in the sand again?

          In “Our Profession” Sorry I don’t work at the local spoon diner.

          We all have skeletons in our closet for various so call crimes, but we are not killers. Are you sure you are employed?

          Please don’t litter this forum with your bovine manure. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade…..so shut the fu*k up.

        • #2699164

          Vocabulary is a mark of the man.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Ratioanl??????

          Like it or not, the words that one chooses to use to express oneself do themselves reveal a great deal about the intellect of the expressor.

          Coarse or refined, the words are the man.

        • #2699090

          tripe!!!!

          by husp1 ·

          In reply to Vocabulary is a mark of the man.

          What a load of horsepuckiee. (look up that word!}

        • #2698727

          Really?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to tripe!!!!

          Even an un-schooled gentleman speaks with greater civility.

          As we say in the Navy, “An officer by act of Congress; a gentlemen by the grace of God.”

        • #2714631

          another case of book by its cover.

          by husp1 ·

          In reply to Vocabulary is a mark of the man.

          sounds to me that the value of a mans charcter shall now be judged by the educational system that raised him. malarky!!!!!! having been educated in several countries over my lifetime I have discovered that people who have little to say depend on vocabulary to hinder or debilitate other into thinking that they are really less then they are! If you have a thing to say use clear and concise terms, I would rather dazzel them with briliance then baffel them with B.S.

        • #2714573

          Civility is a mark of charcter, not of education.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to another case of book by its cover.

          You need to read ALL of the related prior posts, not just those within a particular sub-string, so as to place a specific one in the proper context.

          I do recognize that such is here made somewhat difficult, owing to the maximum allowable depth within any given sub-thread.

          ‘Warrior’ has, whether by design or not I cannot say, scattered his posts widely, with the result that responses to such are equally scattered.

          The speaker that you here praise, i.e. ‘warrior,’ has a history of emotionally charged outbursts, coupled with a complete absence of any facts to support his conclusions.

          As previously stated, FACTS MATTER; opinions, only to the extent that they are based on facts.

          As for one’s ‘language,’ the world does judge one by one’s civility, or the lack thereof.

        • #2715803

          Good sign of a week argument

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Ratioanl??????

          You know your position is weak when the only response you can come up with is to single out what clearly is a typo, and then resort to name calling. How grown up is that?

        • #2713280

          HeadDeep, nitrogen over dose?????

          by warrior ·

          In reply to Speaking of being “Full of it”

          Head deep in the sand, (Reference to your response: “Thanks for the compliment”.

          I know you mean well, but sometimes you have the tendency to vacillate from fabrication of ones own ideas to the main issue at hand. It is well worth it for you to read an educational tidbit that I have written especially for you.

          Know your reader-Are you writing for engineers, managers, technicians? Make the technical dept of your writing compatible with the background of your reader for which you have a tendency to vacillate.

          Write in a clear, conversational style-Naturally, a technical paper on sizing pumps shouldn?t have the same chatty tone as a personal letter. But most technical professionals, which you do seem to be, lean too much in the other direction, and their sharp thinking is obscured by windy, overly-formal prose.

          The key to success in technical writing is to keep it simple. Write to express-not to impress. Your writing does not impress me a bit, chill out Deep. Shimmy down the totem pole a few notches. A relaxed, conversational style can add vigor and clarity to your prose.

          Be concise- Technical professionals, especially those in our industry are busy people. Make your writing less time-consuming for others to read by telling the story in the fewest possible words. You have the tendency to over state your point thus interjecting a rancid taste in ones mouth. Chill out guy.

          Deep, you can make your writing more concise, One way is to avoid redundancies-a needless form of wordiness in which a modifier repeats an idea already contained within the word being modified.

          Deep, I am sorry if I am stoking your intelligence, but there are some of us out there that do not want to impress readers with useless rhetorical bovine manure.

          Oh, by the way Deep, last night?s navy beans and ham hock was so scrumptious I had two helpings, Opps; I think I ate your share.

        • #2713276

          That’s okay; I drank your brews.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to HeadDeep, nitrogen over dose?????

          Lest you think that I authored the quoted reply to “Why did you guess?”, I refer you the the “Table Salt” section of “Reef Points,” which is the handbook issued to every Plebe at USNA, and which must be read and memorized.

          You can purchase a copy from the Midshipmen Store, at http://www.navyonline.com/giftshop/StoreItem.asp?ID=23537.

          Have a good read.

        • #2713138

          thank god!!!!!

          by husp1 ·

          In reply to HeadDeep, nitrogen over dose?????

          finaly a response that even deep can understand. I to can choose to be highly verbal or even blunt but the object is to say somthing of value not just the formless bigotry that grows in your head. as for judgeing a man by his vocabulary, perhaps you should check out the wrighting of one Charles manson you might just find that he speaks on your level as well. perhaps you should learn to judge the man and not the grammer!!!!

        • #2713958

          To repeat, get the facts before you speak

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to thank god!!!!!

          You need to read ALL of the related prior posts, not just those within a particular sub-string, so as to place a specific one in the proper context.

          The speaker that you here praise, i.e. ‘warrior,’ has a history of emotionally charged outbursts, coupled with a complete absence of any facts to support his conclusions.

          As previously stated, FACTS MATTER; opinions, only to the extent that they are based on facts.

          As for one’s ‘language,’ the world does judge one by one’s civility, or the lack thereof.

      • #2701191

        Wow – please everyone read this.

        by sidvail ·

        In reply to He can NOT be for real –

        How is this seen as a hoax?

        My name is Sid Vail. I just wanted to know if security considerations would invalidate my entry into the IT field. I am not asking for breaks or forgiveness. The past and my actions are mine to live with. I have been doing so for 29 years since I crossed those boundries.

        N